Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 449262 times)

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5800 on: November 25, 2020, 06:49:22 PM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?

If the WH did burn to the ground, I would be surprised if it wasn't blamed on Obama.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5801 on: November 25, 2020, 07:16:41 PM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?

Didn't they already rip out large sections of the Rose Garden?

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5802 on: November 25, 2020, 07:23:48 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...


When I went to bed the headline was "he's thinking about it." I'm not desensitized, but rather my only thought was "took him long enough." People have been predicting a Flynn pardon for a couple years.

Flynn will be in trouble again in a few years. He's a piece of work.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5803 on: November 25, 2020, 07:48:37 PM »
What, like he’ll smash a few windows in the WH?
... or get piss on a few of the beds, whatever.

. . . or pay prostitutes to pee on the beds while he watches.  Allegedly.

the_fixer

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Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5804 on: November 25, 2020, 08:20:14 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...
Actually it signaled to me that he has accepted that he is on the way out and is starting the exit process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 08:34:08 PM by the_fixer »

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5805 on: November 25, 2020, 08:28:05 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...


When I went to bed the headline was "he's thinking about it." I'm not desensitized, but rather my only thought was "took him long enough." People have been predicting a Flynn pardon for a couple years.

Flynn will be in trouble again in a few years. He's a piece of work.

Back when this first started with Flynn, someone commented on Twitter how much he was a brave and selfless and heroic American. GEN Hertling replied "not to anybody who knew him."

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5806 on: November 25, 2020, 11:39:01 PM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5807 on: November 26, 2020, 12:21:43 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5808 on: November 26, 2020, 02:33:30 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
Those taking advantage of this ruling might at least get a lesson in natural selection.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5809 on: November 26, 2020, 03:46:35 AM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...
I actually thought he already had. Like a year ago.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5810 on: November 26, 2020, 06:05:02 AM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?

Didn't they already rip out large sections of the Rose Garden?
. To defend Melania the garden was kind of dated.  And she did get guidance from a garden designer. The one disagreement was the timing; it was not ideal time to dig up and replant mature trees so they should have waited when they were dormant.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5811 on: November 26, 2020, 06:09:53 AM »
Those taking advantage of this ruling might at least get a lesson in natural selection.

I'm okay with that part. It's the rest of us (and their healthcare workers) who will get taken down with them.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5812 on: November 26, 2020, 07:01:34 AM »
I think it is all about the churches wanting the donations they are not getting without packed pews.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5813 on: November 26, 2020, 08:48:13 AM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?

Didn't they already rip out large sections of the Rose Garden?
. To defend Melania the garden was kind of dated.  And she did get guidance from a garden designer. The one disagreement was the timing; it was not ideal time to dig up and replant mature trees so they should have waited when they were dormant.
Meh. I’m indifferent about the rose garden renovation. It isn’t my style, but every “first family” puts their stamp on the 230+ year old executive mansion, and every one runs into detractors that don’t like the outcome. It has also often been the “project” of the First Lady more than the president.

Far as I am concerned Melanias revamp is one of the few times the Trumps were following a long tradition.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5814 on: November 26, 2020, 08:51:20 AM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?

Didn't they already rip out large sections of the Rose Garden?
. To defend Melania the garden was kind of dated.  And she did get guidance from a garden designer. The one disagreement was the timing; it was not ideal time to dig up and replant mature trees so they should have waited when they were dormant.
Meh. I’m indifferent about the rose garden renovation. It isn’t my style, but every “first family” puts their stamp on the 230+ year old executive mansion, and every one runs into detractors that don’t like the outcome. It has also often been the “project” of the First Lady more than the president.

Far as I am concerned Melanias revamp is one of the few times the Trumps were following a long tradition.
So does anyone have any guesses on the style of the Trumps' interior redecoration of the private parts of the White House?  Or didn't they care enough to bother if no-one could see it?

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5815 on: November 26, 2020, 09:55:22 AM »
At least the Trump lawyers are on the ball, eh?

https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/jenna-ellis-shared-a-fake-teddy-roosevelt-quote-then-defended-herself-by-saying-the-ifea-is-true/ and https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/jenna-ellis-teddy-roosevelt-quote_n_5fbf035fc5b61d04bfa6d81e?ri18n=true for more beauts.

Add this one to the Four Seasons gig, Oozy Giuliani's hair dye meltdown and Borat cameo, as well as Sidney Powell's "bombshells" (oops sorry, she's now on her own crusade).

Nothing but the best people!

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5816 on: November 26, 2020, 09:57:59 AM »
I just saw a headline about Trump's inner circle saying his lawyers are making him look incompetent. I mean, he did that on his own, the lawyers are just giving is good fodder...

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5817 on: November 26, 2020, 12:32:36 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...

It's tradition for the president to pardon a turkey for Thanksgiving. 


Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5818 on: November 26, 2020, 08:14:55 PM »
At press conference he admitted he's going to have to leave in January, but he'll never concede the election. After all, he won. He won by millions of votes. All the votes. And there was so much fraud. And we're a third world country without him.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5819 on: November 26, 2020, 08:24:23 PM »
I just saw a headline about Trump's inner circle saying his lawyers are making him look incompetent. I mean, he did that on his own, the lawyers are just giving is good fodder...

Right, he did do that all on his own, but at the same time I 100% believe the headline that his advisors are telling him exactly that. What do you tell a childish narcissist when you want him to stop throwing a tantrum? "Your lawyers are making you look bad" is exactly what I'd say.

jim555

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5820 on: November 27, 2020, 12:10:20 AM »
What's with the tiny desk Trump is sitting at?  I thought this has to be photo-shopped but it is real.  Looks like his staff is messing with him.

https://twitter.com/kenjeong/status/1332166844178862082/photo/1
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 05:59:17 AM by jim555 »

economista

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5821 on: November 27, 2020, 07:01:03 AM »
What's with the tiny desk Trump is sitting at?  I thought this has to be photo-shopped but it is real.  Looks like his staff is messing with him.

https://twitter.com/kenjeong/status/1332166844178862082/photo/1

He's in the diplomatic room in the white house. Over the years there have been quite a few pictures of his signing executive orders or international agreements at that desk as well.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5822 on: November 27, 2020, 11:10:26 PM »
I think it is all about the churches wanting the donations they are not getting without packed pews.

Big church mortgages or salaries to pay?

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5823 on: November 28, 2020, 04:45:13 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

Better to just remove all mandatory restrictions from religious gatherings of any sort and let nature take its course.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5824 on: November 28, 2020, 04:51:19 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

Better to just remove all mandatory restrictions from religious gatherings of any sort and let nature take its course.

Your argument could be extended to say that we ought to lift all mandatory restrictions for everyone with regard to gatherings. To me that is a terrible, dangerous idea.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5825 on: November 28, 2020, 06:46:29 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

Better to just remove all mandatory restrictions from religious gatherings of any sort and let nature take its course.

Nature taking it's course would mean many cases totally unrelated to the people at the original gathering.  Those asymptomatic people and people who are shedding virus before they show symptoms are walking vectors.  You may be a good lawyer but you are not a good epidemiologist.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5826 on: November 28, 2020, 07:14:44 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

Better to just remove all mandatory restrictions from religious gatherings of any sort and let nature take its course.

Nature taking it's course would mean many cases totally unrelated to the people at the original gathering.  Those asymptomatic people and people who are shedding virus before they show symptoms are walking vectors.  You may be a good lawyer but you are not a good epidemiologist.

This is an example of how the doctrine of ‘Personal Responsibility’ can come into conflict with others’ rights for safety, security and prosperity. When risky behaviors impact non-participants the rights of the risk taker cannot supersede the rights of the bystanders. With a virus such as Covid the actions of a few hundred in one city can spread through the community and literally kill some, make thousands sick and literally curtail the activities of almost everyone else.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5827 on: November 28, 2020, 07:19:10 AM »
Just what we need as Covid cases spike going in to the fall - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/supreme-court-religious-restrictions-ruling-covid/index.html

Quote
In a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that limited attendance at religious services.
...
In the late-night ruling, Barrett sided with the conservatives in the dispute, while Chief Justice John Roberts joined the three liberal justices in dissent. The ruling underscores Barrett's impact on the bench, reflecting the Court's rightward shift.
No problem.  Scrap that law and allow mass religious gatherings.  Just write a new law requiring anyone who has attended any event for any reason that is in excess of X number of people must isolate for a minimum 14 days after each attendance and provide a negative Covid test taken after the 14 days before they are allowed to leave their house.  If caught violating the law it results in being held in jail on remand without bail until trial.

Better to just remove all mandatory restrictions from religious gatherings of any sort and let nature take its course.

Nature taking it's course would mean many cases totally unrelated to the people at the original gathering.  Those asymptomatic people and people who are shedding virus before they show symptoms are walking vectors.  You may be a good lawyer but you are not a good epidemiologist.

This is an example of how the doctrine of ‘Personal Responsibility’ can come into conflict with others’ rights for safety, security and prosperity. When risky behaviors impact non-participants the rights of the risk taker cannot supersede the rights of the bystanders. With a virus such as Covid the actions of a few hundred in one city can spread through the community and literally kill some, make thousands sick and literally curtail the activities of almost everyone else.

Yeah . . . but caring for other people is communism!  :P

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5828 on: November 28, 2020, 07:19:21 AM »
You guys are right. I didn't think about the harm caused by the infected reaching others in everyday life. Perhaps, as previously suggested, religious attendees should be given the privilege to attend large gatherings however they please, but a condition of that privilege would be that they'd need to be tested and/or lock selves down for 14 days before going to work or going outside their household? Seems like a win-win to me.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5829 on: November 28, 2020, 07:26:50 AM »
You guys are right. I didn't think about the harm caused by the infected reaching others in everyday life. Perhaps, as previously suggested, religious attendees should be given the privilege to attend large gatherings however they please, but a condition of that privilege would be that they'd need to be tested and/or lock selves down for 14 days before going to work or going outside their household? Seems like a win-win to me.

How does enforcement work in your proposed solution?

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5830 on: November 28, 2020, 08:10:13 AM »
Well, if the churchgoers were to be locked down for 14 days, they would get out just in time for church again and another lock down for 14 days! They'd never be able to go to work!

I don't see why church can't have smaller amount of attendees, shorter sermons and more attendance times. Or even switch days of the week. Why can't they work with the officials during this very dangerous time. No one is saying they can never go to church. They are saying large groups are prone to spreading this virus. What is so hard to understand? We know the president doesn't grasp the scientific concept as fact but the rest of us should be able to.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5831 on: November 28, 2020, 09:01:03 AM »
Well, if the churchgoers were to be locked down for 14 days, they would get out just in time for church again and another lock down for 14 days! They'd never be able to go to work!

I don't see why church can't have smaller amount of attendees, shorter sermons and more attendance times. Or even switch days of the week. Why can't they work with the officials during this very dangerous time. No one is saying they can never go to church. They are saying large groups are prone to spreading this virus. What is so hard to understand? We know the president doesn't grasp the scientific concept as fact but the rest of us should be able to.
Apparently 40% of Americans believe in creationism.  Failing to grasp the scientific concept is not limited to Trump.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5832 on: November 28, 2020, 10:31:54 AM »
Well, if the churchgoers were to be locked down for 14 days, they would get out just in time for church again and another lock down for 14 days! They'd never be able to go to work!

I don't see why church can't have smaller amount of attendees, shorter sermons and more attendance times. Or even switch days of the week. Why can't they work with the officials during this very dangerous time. No one is saying they can never go to church. They are saying large groups are prone to spreading this virus. What is so hard to understand? We know the president doesn't grasp the scientific concept as fact but the rest of us should be able to.
Apparently 40% of Americans believe in creationism.  Failing to grasp the scientific concept is not limited to Trump.

A few days ago I was astonished  when I was told  that in my  rural county lamb's blood was  wiped on   a house's  door frame to ward off  COVID-19.

IDK if only 1 or more than 1 person did this but it must have something to do with the Passover offering.

Whoever it was I doubt that  they're  Jews.

"As the story goes, during the tenth and final plague, God passes through the land of Egypt and strikes down the firstborn of every household. But the Jews have been told to mark their doors with the blood of a lamb they've sacrificed — the Passover offering — and so God 'passes over' their homes."Aug 5, 2014




jim555

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5833 on: November 28, 2020, 01:31:13 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5834 on: November 28, 2020, 03:20:26 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.   Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.

I'm grateful that many dioceses (including the Archdiocese of Detroit) have issued dispensations temporarily relieving Catholics of the requirement to attend Mass in person. In addition to Catholic churches in my area, mainline Protestant churches, synagogues, and mosques reduced or temporarily eliminated their in-person services. We had a terrible local outbreak last spring, and Easter/Passover/Ramadan services and festivities would have made things so much worse.

I understand the reluctance to give up in-person worship, for sure. I lost in-person access to my various volunteer circles in March. I'm not happy about it and it's really fucking hard. I still don't understand the unwillingness by some congregations to put a pause on large gatherings to protect the vulnerable among them and in their greater communities.

MudPuppy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5835 on: November 28, 2020, 03:36:57 PM »
Our diocese also issued dispensation from Mass attendance and Eucharist. Our bishop has asked all faithful to wear masks in public and to take social distancing seriously as an act of charity.
 They are offering roughly double the number of Masses they usually have, with whole pews blocked off and services streamed live. Small groups meet via zoom instead of in person now. It’s not perfect but it’s an effort.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5836 on: November 28, 2020, 03:57:49 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.

The Pope, the literal Pope, said that public health take precedence over these rituals.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5837 on: November 28, 2020, 04:54:28 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.

The Pope, the literal Pope, said that public health take precedence over these rituals.

So, 2020 years later, it turns out that interpreting what the Bible commands literally could kill off Christianity.  Well, this must have been part of 'the plan'.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/At-one-Houston-church-prophecy-replaces-turkey-15755188.php
Quote
While millions of Americans nestle into couches for their post-dinner naps on Thursday, Hlavinka and other members of Reigning Glory Church will begin a three-day fast. They believe their faithfulness to God will spare them the worst of COVID-19.
 

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5838 on: November 28, 2020, 04:57:05 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.


Issues of religious liberty  will be further complicated by some justices'  cognizance  of hostility toward  religion which  I predict will result in a more solicitous posture when the Court adjudicates free exercise cases.

Furthermore, there is nothing ambiguous about Gorsuch's statements in Bostock.

Bostock v. Clayton County (2020)

"Because RFRA operates as a kind of super statute, displacing the normal operation of other federal laws, it might supersede Title VII’s commands in appropriate cases."

 "But how these doctrines protecting religious liberty interact with Title VII are questions for future cases too." Justice Gorsuch.



Here are some of Justice Alito's thoughts on the matter of hostility toward religion  that IIRC, he expressed during a talk he gave ~2015.


“A wind is picking up that is hostile to those with traditional [faith-based] moral beliefs.”

[Judicial rulings] “will be used to vilify Americans unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy.”

“I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools.”

 “By imposing its own views on the entire country...the majority facilitates the marginalization of the many Americans who have traditional ideas.”

 “We are seeing this come to pass.”

All of the above means that protection of religious liberty is ascendant.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5839 on: November 28, 2020, 04:57:11 PM »
Well, if the churchgoers were to be locked down for 14 days, they would get out just in time for church again and another lock down for 14 days! They'd never be able to go to work!

I don't see why church can't have smaller amount of attendees, shorter sermons and more attendance times. Or even switch days of the week. Why can't they work with the officials during this very dangerous time. No one is saying they can never go to church. They are saying large groups are prone to spreading this virus. What is so hard to understand? We know the president doesn't grasp the scientific concept as fact but the rest of us should be able to.

If they don't want to work they don't have to work. Probably a win-win there too.

The fact that wacky religions get so much precedence in the States is one of the (few) things I really dislike about the States, but if you're going to give religions precedence, just go the whole hog - let them do whatever they like, subject to lockdown periods, and they can sort themselves out. Maybe allow followers of the same faith to visit each other in their homes (like a massive social bubble) too.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5840 on: November 29, 2020, 02:57:18 AM »
Put this on Trump's list of failures. Also, he claimed he took it as a preventative early on. Maybe he took too much of it?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-hydoxychloroquine-psychiatric-dis-orders_n_5fc2fccec5b66bb88c677602

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5841 on: November 29, 2020, 05:05:30 AM »
Put this on Trump's list of failures. Also, he claimed he took it as a preventative early on. Maybe he took too much of it?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-hydoxychloroquine-psychiatric-dis-orders_n_5fc2fccec5b66bb88c677602

All the anti-malaria drugs ending in "quine" seem to have a history of mental side effects going back decades.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5842 on: November 29, 2020, 08:05:19 AM »
Has anyone seen similarities of Eric Cartman on South Park to Trump?

Eric reminds me of how Trump must have been as a child.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5843 on: November 29, 2020, 08:33:56 AM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
A fuck it is!

If my religion says "Once each year thou shall cast three dice, and whence you get three sixes, thou shalt slain a newborn and drick it's blood", is it all right for me to do that?
No difference to Covid, except that you don't drink blood.


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5844 on: November 29, 2020, 09:39:30 AM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.

It's easy for people to pile onto this ruling, as seen by this thread alone. However, you are right, it's a complex issue. For instance, as best as I can tell from reading pieces of the majority ruling, the ruling mainly focused on the fact that there were different requirements for churches as opposed to other instances. For example, again as I understand it, the restrictions on churches were a strict person number irrespective of the capacity of the church itself, which was more restrictive than other indoor situations. It was this that they keyed on, and quite frankly, from an unexpert opinion, it does seem like that's a double standard against religions. The ruling wasn't just about churches not being allowed to have any restrictions because they're churches. It was about churches not having more restrictions than other organizations.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5845 on: November 29, 2020, 10:40:59 AM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
A fuck it is!

If my religion says "Once each year thou shall cast three dice, and whence you get three sixes, thou shalt slain a newborn and drick it's blood", is it all right for me to do that?
No difference to Covid, except that you don't drink blood.

There is an obvious, overwhelmingly  compelling governmental interest in barring religious rituals such as human sacrifice so of course they are not within the ambit of  Free-Exercise Clause protection.

The same cannot be said of attendance restrictions at houses of worship though in my opinion, during a pandemic there are equally  valid arguments which  support and oppose them.

Cantwell v. Connecticut (1940) is instructive as to the dual considerations of "freedom to believe and freedom to act" and avoidance of "unduly [infringing] the protected freedom."



The constitutional inhibition of legislation on the subject of religion has a double aspect.

On the one hand, it forestalls compulsion by law of the acceptance of any creed or the practice of any form of worship.

Freedom of conscience and freedom to adhere to such religious organization or form of worship as the individual may choose cannot be restricted by law.

On the other hand, it safeguards the free exercise of the chosen form of religion.

Thus the Amendment embraces two concepts,—freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be.

Conduct remains subject to regulation for the protection of society. The freedom to act must have appropriate definition to preserve the enforcement of that protection.

In every case the power to regulate must be so exercised as not, in attaining a permissible end, unduly to infringe the protected freedom
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 11:08:35 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5846 on: November 29, 2020, 01:12:49 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
A fuck it is!

If my religion says "Once each year thou shall cast three dice, and whence you get three sixes, thou shalt slain a newborn and drick it's blood", is it all right for me to do that?
No difference to Covid, except that you don't drink blood.

At this stage the influence of religion is so persuasive that you probably could do it and get away with it. The best we can hope to do is to segregate the fanatics and let them do their thing among themselves.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5847 on: November 29, 2020, 01:58:42 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
A fuck it is!

If my religion says "Once each year thou shall cast three dice, and whence you get three sixes, thou shalt slain a newborn and drick it's blood", is it all right for me to do that?
No difference to Covid, except that you don't drink blood.

There is an obvious, overwhelmingly  compelling governmental interest in barring religious rituals such as human sacrifice so of course they are not within the ambit of  Free-Exercise Clause protection.

The same cannot be said of attendance restrictions at houses of worship though in my opinion, during a pandemic there are equally  valid arguments which  support and oppose them.

The main issue here is if churches have different rules than e.g. an opera house. If the have, thats Bullshit.

That aside, it does not matter if it is a church or an opera house or a "gather all 200 family member from around the country" birthday party.
All of those are non-essential activities.

And Christian religion is always samer than the others.
To go to a church to drink wine that has turned magically into blood is totally okay believe. But if you believe in the religion named "Commuism", than thou shalt be killed! And of course, try to say that there should be a 100% inheritage tax because God created man, but not inheritage, than that may be even worse.

Or what I want to say in other words: Your argument that a place of worship is different is A) stupid and B) in 99,9% of cases means "of my religion or religions I accept" anyway, and is as such not neutral out of the window.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5848 on: November 29, 2020, 02:43:38 PM »
Justices lift New York’s COVID-related attendance limits on worship services
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/11/justices-lift-new-yorks-covid-related-attendance-limits-on-worship-services/#more-297905

This order is a stay on the restriction, the full case will be heard later.

Religions like Roman Catholicism have sacramental elements that require physical presence.  It becomes much more complex when preventing attendance directly interferes with the practice of the religion.    Stopping attendance of sporting events does not involve a Constitutionally protected act.  This is a complex issue and it is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
A fuck it is!

If my religion says "Once each year thou shall cast three dice, and whence you get three sixes, thou shalt slain a newborn and drick it's blood", is it all right for me to do that?
No difference to Covid, except that you don't drink blood.

There is an obvious, overwhelmingly  compelling governmental interest in barring religious rituals such as human sacrifice so of course they are not within the ambit of  Free-Exercise Clause protection.

The same cannot be said of attendance restrictions at houses of worship though in my opinion, during a pandemic there are equally  valid arguments which  support and oppose them.

The main issue here is if churches have different rules than e.g. an opera house. If the have, thats Bullshit.

That aside, it does not matter if it is a church or an opera house or a "gather all 200 family member from around the country" birthday party.
All of those are non-essential activities.

And Christian religion is always samer than the others.
To go to a church to drink wine that has turned magically into blood is totally okay believe. But if you believe in the religion named "Commuism", than thou shalt be killed! And of course, try to say that there should be a 100% inheritage tax because God created man, but not inheritage, than that may be even worse.

Or what I want to say in other words: Your argument that a place of worship is different is A) stupid and B) in 99,9% of cases means "of my religion or religions I accept" anyway, and is as such not neutral out of the window.

As I mentioned above, churches did have different rules - they were actually restricted more than any other places, at least that I had seen. In certain locations, there were restrictions of no more than 10 people in locations even if the churches had a capacity of more than 1000 attendees. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/26/us/supreme-court-coronavirus-religion-new-york.html

Dollar Slice

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5849 on: November 29, 2020, 03:03:25 PM »
The main issue here is if churches have different rules than e.g. an opera house. If the have, thats Bullshit.

Here in NYC, places like the opera house, Madison Square Garden, jazz clubs, comedy clubs and movie theaters are not allowed to be open AT ALL. Churches, synagogues, and mosques are allowed to be open at a reduced capacity. Restaurants and bars are also allowed to be open at a very reduced capacity. Stores are less limited because you don't tend to linger in them and you keep your mask on and don't tend to talk/sing/yell, but larger stores are limiting the number of people inside as well.

Churches think they should be treated like a hardware store instead of like a music venue, even though there's usually music, singing, talking, etc. and you are there for 30-90 minutes. I don't get it.

I live in NYC and if I look out my window I can see one of the largest cathedrals in the world. SCOTUS would like to fill it with some 4000+ people in a pandemic, because that's 50% capacity and therefore totally safe! It makes me really angry that they are trying to endanger people like this. Whenever there is a big funeral or wedding there (in normal times) my neighborhood is full of double-parked cars from the people attending from far-flung areas. I'm sure they are all going for meals afterwards in local restaurants, stopping for coffee, doing errands and so on. If there was a COVID outbreak at a large church like this, it would spread like crazy. We have already seen that COVID spreads like wildfire in this dense city and we have seen that certain religious groups are completely unwilling to police themselves and be safe (see: the 7000-person wedding a few weeks ago in Brooklyn). We need to be able to regulate them. It is absolutely nuts to allow multi-hundred or multi-thousand person events in NYC. But SCOTUS is forcing us to.