Trump outrage of the day

[Travis]

GA recount goes, as expected, for Biden, by over 12k votes.

I never thought that winning over and over and over and over and over and over again would be this stressful.

Think how this feels for President Trump, losing over and over and over and over again.    ;-)

Nope. He saved democracy by making sure every vote was counted.


While insisting millions of votes should be thrown out.




And it's still fraud.

[OtherJen]

GA recount goes, as expected, for Biden, by over 12k votes.

I never thought that winning over and over and over and over and over and over again would be this stressful.

Think how this feels for President Trump, losing over and over and over and over again.    ;-)

Nope. He saved democracy by making sure every vote was counted.


While insisting millions of votes should be thrown out.




And it's still fraud.

Yep. He's still trying to throw out my vote.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

[skp]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

[nereo]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?

[Psychstache]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?

"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are hearing is not what is happening." - Trump 2018

I swear the only true thing Trump has said in the last 4/5 years is that eh could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose a vote.

[MasterStache]

I think we (as in Giuliani et al) have ventured into 9/11 truther territory. Basically everyone is in on the conspiracy to steal the election. Dem cities, law enforcement the court system etc. etc. Pure insanity.

[jim555]

Cult45 is in the process of self-destruction, and it is beautiful. 

[rantk81]

I can't believe how naïve people are.  Obviously George Soros in 2030 had his head severed and cryogenically frozen, so that in the year 3022 when time travel was finally invented, he could travel back in time, and save Jeffrey Epstein from being murdered in jail, and they could collude with the DNC chair to prevent the assassination of JFK and then steal all the elections for the Democrats in the 1960s through the 2060s.  The 9/11 inside-job was just a democratic attempt at distracting the public from the real truth of Soros' grand scheme.


Edit:  See how easy it is to spew bullshit? :)

[katsiki]

I can't believe how naïve people are.  Obviously George Soros in 2030 had his head severed and cryogenically frozen, so that in the year 3022 when time travel was finally invented, he could travel back in time, and save Jeffrey Epstein from being murdered in jail, and they could collude with the DNC chair to prevent the assassination of JFK and then steal all the elections for the Democrats in the 1960s through the 2060s.  The 9/11 inside-job was just a democratic attempt at distracting the public from the real truth of Soros' grand scheme.


Edit:  See how easy it is to spew bullshit? :)

So, do you think this proves that Soros is in fact the antichrist?

[LennStar]

Didn't you look into the bible? Trump is already the Anti... sorry, the GREATEST Antichrist of all times!

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?

A) Shoot or B) shoe them.
You know, mafia boots? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement_shoes

[nereo]

Donald Trump Jr has tested positive for Covid

...and it couldn't have happened to a nicer...  um... never mind.

[RetiredAt63]

Donald Trump Jr has tested positive for Covid

...and it couldn't have happened to a nicer...  um... never mind.

Isn't there some saying about just desserts? And reaping what you sow?

[former player]

Donald Trump Jr has tested positive for Covid

...and it couldn't have happened to a nicer...  um... never mind.

You just made my whole day a little brighter.  Thank you.

[Travis]

Trump had an in-person meeting with Michigan lawmakers to get them to change their minds about the electors. They tell him to piss off.

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/11/20/937294458/we-will-follow-the-law-michigan-lawmakers-defend-election-after-trump-meeting

Imagine if he was successful. The headline would have read "Candidate for political office meets with officials, gets them to change the results of the election."

We've got Graham calling state officials to figure out ways to get their election results nullified, and Trump directly proposing that they break their state laws and just give him the election. If this happened anywhere else in the world we'd be drafting economic sanctions.

[LateToTheParty]

Oh come on, already....  Just man up DT.   Concede already.

Bye Bye Donny
https://youtu.be/cQ9__8UJSc4

[LennStar]

Trump had an in-person meeting with Michigan lawmakers to get them to change their minds about the electors. They tell him to piss off.

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/11/20/937294458/we-will-follow-the-law-michigan-lawmakers-defend-election-after-trump-meeting

Imagine if he was successful. The headline would have read "Candidate for political office meets with officials, gets them to change the results of the election."

We've got Graham calling state officials to figure out ways to get their election results nullified, and Trump directly proposing that they break their state laws and just give him the election. If this happened anywhere else in the world we'd be drafting economic sanctions.

Only if you didn't do business there. And if there were oil, you would already move the aircraft carrier.

[RetiredAt63]

Oh come on, already....  Just man up DT.   Concede already.

Bye Bye Donny
https://youtu.be/cQ9__8UJSc4

LOL

[Taran Wanderer]

Donald Trump Jr has tested positive for Covid

...and it couldn't have happened to a nicer...  um... never mind.

You just made my whole day a little brighter.  Thank you.

He announced he will be taking the quarantine seriously, and he will be using the time to clean his guns.

[WhiteTrashCash]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

[ysette9]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

[OtherJen]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

[the_fixer]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

I am willing to pitch in for a plane ticket :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LennStar]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

I am willing to pitch in for a plane ticket :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And I for a toaster.
Not that someone can understand this without background...

Back when Trump became president, someone wrote a tweet
"Dear NASA, sorry for bothering you, but those toasts in orbit are from my toaster. Apologies."
To which I responded:
"Dear X, space waste is a serious problem. Still: Could we get that toaster for Mr. Trump?"

Still today I sometimes get retweets of that, however that works in the twitter algo.

[caracarn]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?

I am still hoping for Parler in real life.  They will all go start their own country where they can live their consipracies and not trust any institution they rely on for their daily survival.

[GuitarStv]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

[frugalnacho]

Maybe it's time to set some precedent? Trump's actions have been absolutely unconscionable and there should be severe repercussions to him and his enablers. 

[GuitarStv]

Agreed.  But I'll be very surprised if that actually comes to pass.

[wenchsenior]

I'm not at all surprised that Trump can't find decent lawyers to work with him.  Back in the 80s or 90s (I forget which decade), my uncle's law firm represented him during one of his divorces, and he was such a nightmare to work with they decided to never represent him again.

[former player]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

[FIPurpose]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

My guess is that Trump will be willing to settle for a large undisclosed settlement with NY Department of Finance rather than go to jail. He'd gladly spend down 90% of his fortune over going to jail.

[OzzieandHarriet]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

My guess is that Trump will be willing to settle for a large undisclosed settlement with NY Department of Finance rather than go to jail. He'd gladly spend down 90% of his fortune over going to jail.

My guess is he’s broke. So not much of a fortune to bargain with.

[jim555]

He will probably try to pardon himself and everyone around him, that's the next outrage.

[LennStar]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

My guess is that Trump will be willing to settle for a large undisclosed settlement with NY Department of Finance rather than go to jail. He'd gladly spend down 90% of his fortune over going to jail.

My guess is he’s broke. So not much of a fortune to bargain with.

No problem. he can just milk his followers for his Great Thruth Fund.

[geekette]

He will probably try to pardon himself and everyone around him, that's the next outrage.

He can only pardon federal crimes.  Go NY!

[Just Joe]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

I am willing to pitch in for a plane ticket.

If we can make it North Korea, I'd kick in some too....

[Travis]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

My guess is that Trump will be willing to settle for a large undisclosed settlement with NY Department of Finance rather than go to jail. He'd gladly spend down 90% of his fortune over going to jail.

My guess is he’s broke. So not much of a fortune to bargain with.

Last month there was an article discussing why he didn't put any of his own money into the campaign this time around. Apparently he's about $140 million liquid, but owes almost three times that in loans. He was trying to sell one of his hotels recently and the deal just fell through which may hinder his impending cash flow problem.

[Glenstache]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

If I were in the Biden administration I would spend my time quietly gathering evidence against the Trumps just in case, but let New York State take the lead in prosecuting Trump and his family.  I'm hoping New York State has enough evidence to bung the lot of them in prison sooner rather than later, although massive fines and bans on doing business in the State would be nice too.

I suspect that there are plenty of Trump lackeys and hangers-on in Congress and the administration who should be seeing the inside of a courtroom and sooner rather than later would be good.

My guess is that Trump will be willing to settle for a large undisclosed settlement with NY Department of Finance rather than go to jail. He'd gladly spend down 90% of his fortune over going to jail.

My guess is he’s broke. So not much of a fortune to bargain with.

Last month there was an article discussing why he did put any of his own money into the campaign this time around. Apparently he's about $140 million liquid, but owes almost three times that in loans. He was trying to sell one of his hotels and the deal just fell through.

Well, he is the "King of Debt, as he has proudly proclaimed.

[scottish]

I think Trump will try to use his persuasion skills to convince his base to send him money for the 2024 election.

He will then embezzle this money to try and stay ahead of prosecution.

[geekette]

I think Trump will try to use his persuasion skills to convince his base to send him money for the 2024 election.

He will then embezzle this money to try and stay ahead of prosecution.

My spam filter still catches 6-8 pleas for money a day as it is! 

I did read that he's considering speaking gigs, plus charging admission for rallies.

[LennStar]

Credit where credit is due, he is good at making people part with their money. Like every con man, it even makes people happy.

[talltexan]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

Can you be more specific about a list of previous Presidents and crimes?

The most corrupt Presidents in US history were probably U.S. Grant--survived less then seven years after he left office--and Warren Harding. Despite the flagrant corruption of the people around them, both were very popular, with Republicans controlling the WH for at least two more terms after them.

(ETA I think Trump makes either of these guys look like choir boys)

[GuitarStv]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

Can you be more specific about a list of previous Presidents and crimes?

The most corrupt Presidents in US history were probably U.S. Grant--survived less then seven years after he left office--and Warren Harding. Despite the flagrant corruption of the people around them, both were very popular, with Republicans controlling the WH for at least two more terms after them.

(ETA I think Trump makes either of these guys look like choir boys)

Plenty of crimes committed by past presidents. 

Grant and Harding, sure.  Nixon payed hush money, obstructed justice, committed a wide ranging number of war crimes, used presidential resources to investigate his personal enemies, etc.  Bill Clinton was credibly accused of multiple assaults/statutory rape.  George W Bush is a war criminal, authorizing rape and torture by US soldiers in Iraq (not to mention the coordinated lies told to the world to justify the war he wanted).

I can't think of any US president being held accountable for his actions though.  Certainly no president has ever testified in open court.  The president appears (for all intents and purposes) to be above the law . . . explicitly while in office (according to the DOJ), and also implicitly after leaving office.  It appears that the US has rebuilt the system of kings that it originally rebelled against.

[ender]

Plenty of crimes committed by past presidents. 

Grant and Harding, sure.  Nixon payed hush money, obstructed justice, committed a wide ranging number of war crimes, used presidential resources to investigate his personal enemies, etc.  Bill Clinton was credibly accused of multiple assaults/statutory rape.  George W Bush is a war criminal, authorizing rape and torture by US soldiers in Iraq (not to mention the coordinated lies told to the world to justify the war he wanted).

I can't think of any US president being held accountable for his actions though.  Certainly no president has ever testified in open court.  The president appears (for all intents and purposes) to be above the law . . . explicitly while in office (according to the DOJ), and also implicitly after leaving office.  It appears that the US has rebuilt the system of kings that it originally rebelled against.

It's funny to me you manage to simultaneously attempt to blast the USA as the "system... it rebelled against" while also not bothering to care about innocent until proven guilty which is also a major factor the American colonies rebelled against.

I know in the social media age, it's basically "guilty until proven innocent" which perhaps has confused you.

[GuitarStv]

Plenty of crimes committed by past presidents. 

Grant and Harding, sure.  Nixon payed hush money, obstructed justice, committed a wide ranging number of war crimes, used presidential resources to investigate his personal enemies, etc.  Bill Clinton was credibly accused of multiple assaults/statutory rape.  George W Bush is a war criminal, authorizing rape and torture by US soldiers in Iraq (not to mention the coordinated lies told to the world to justify the war he wanted).

I can't think of any US president being held accountable for his actions though.  Certainly no president has ever testified in open court.  The president appears (for all intents and purposes) to be above the law . . . explicitly while in office (according to the DOJ), and also implicitly after leaving office.  It appears that the US has rebuilt the system of kings that it originally rebelled against.

It's funny to me you manage to simultaneously attempt to blast the USA as the "system... it rebelled against" while also not bothering to care about innocent until proven guilty which is also a major factor the American colonies rebelled against.

I know in the social media age, it's basically "guilty until proven innocent" which perhaps has confused you.

Not 'blasting' anything.  But the idea of kings being above the law was one of the concerns of the founding fathers, wasn't it?  Do you think they would be happy with the current state of presidents being untouchable and held to different standards than all other people?

I do care about innocent until proven guilty!

Everything I listed is a matter of public record at this point.  That doesn't mean that I want these presidents lynched though.  They should be given a court date to plead their case in the criminal system.  By all accounts, it's quite likely that a large portion of the Trump administration is guilty of crimes as well - under direct orders from the president.  The question for Americans is . . . do you want to start holding the president legally accountable for his actions, or continue the tradition of lawlessness?

[JLee]

Plenty of crimes committed by past presidents. 

Grant and Harding, sure.  Nixon payed hush money, obstructed justice, committed a wide ranging number of war crimes, used presidential resources to investigate his personal enemies, etc.  Bill Clinton was credibly accused of multiple assaults/statutory rape.  George W Bush is a war criminal, authorizing rape and torture by US soldiers in Iraq (not to mention the coordinated lies told to the world to justify the war he wanted).

I can't think of any US president being held accountable for his actions though.  Certainly no president has ever testified in open court.  The president appears (for all intents and purposes) to be above the law . . . explicitly while in office (according to the DOJ), and also implicitly after leaving office.  It appears that the US has rebuilt the system of kings that it originally rebelled against.

It's funny to me you manage to simultaneously attempt to blast the USA as the "system... it rebelled against" while also not bothering to care about innocent until proven guilty which is also a major factor the American colonies rebelled against.

I know in the social media age, it's basically "guilty until proven innocent" which perhaps has confused you.

What presidents have had the opportunity to enjoy the presumption of innocence while following due process through the criminal court system?

[Psychstache]

Trump is terrified of losing Presidential immunity from prosecution, because New York is going to jail him as soon as he is out of office. That's what all this is about.

I feel like I’ve gotten so jaded these part four years over the lack of consequences for bad behavior that I can’t find myself believing that there will be consequences after he leaves office. Can anyone with any legal training comment on the likelihood of NY state being successful pursuing suits against Trump?

I share your concern. Nothing ever sticks to him.

But...he's exhausted pretty much his entire legal team except Giuliani, and we can all see how well that's going. His usual fancy Big Law firms have been dropping him like a hot potato lately.

(Although I think he will most likely flee the country.)

Has a president ever been held accountable for his crimes after leaving office?  I understand that it's theoretically possible, but can't think of an example from reality.

Can you be more specific about a list of previous Presidents and crimes?

The most corrupt Presidents in US history were probably U.S. Grant--survived less then seven years after he left office--and Warren Harding. Despite the flagrant corruption of the people around them, both were very popular, with Republicans controlling the WH for at least two more terms after them.

(ETA I think Trump makes either of these guys look like choir boys)

Plenty of crimes committed by past presidents. 

Grant and Harding, sure.  Nixon payed hush money, obstructed justice, committed a wide ranging number of war crimes, used presidential resources to investigate his personal enemies, etc.  Bill Clinton was credibly accused of multiple assaults/statutory rape.  George W Bush is a war criminal, authorizing rape and torture by US soldiers in Iraq (not to mention the coordinated lies told to the world to justify the war he wanted).

I can't think of any US president being held accountable for his actions though.  Certainly no president has ever testified in open court.  The president appears (for all intents and purposes) to be above the law . . . explicitly while in office (according to the DOJ), and also implicitly after leaving office.  It appears that the US has rebuilt the system of kings that it originally rebelled against.

I wouldn't say it is a system of kings, but more a system of wealth and power. Becoming president is not the only way you can attain immunity from justice. Maybe the greatest example of the system working as intended as is O.J. Simpson. Here is a man who came from humble beginnings to who went on to obtain such significant status and power that he was able to get away with murder*.

*My personal opinion, found not guilty in criminal court, yadda yadda yadda.

[sherr]

I wouldn't say it is a system of kings, but more a system of wealth and power. Becoming president is not the only way you can attain immunity from justice. Maybe the greatest example of the system working as intended as is O.J. Simpson. Here is a man who came from humble beginnings to who went on to obtain such significant status and power that he was able to get away with murder*.

*My personal opinion, proven innocent in criminal court, yadda yadda yadda.

He was not "proven innocent", the government just failed to prove him guilty. Which are very different things, and relevant to the current conversation. No one is ever declared "innocent" by a court of law, they are declared "not guilty". It's not just semantics.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies. 

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?

I am still hoping for Parler in real life.  They will all go start their own country where they can live their consipracies and not trust any institution they rely on for their daily survival.

I'd forgotten all about Parler.  It's crazy what goes on in quiet corners of the internet...

What still worries me is that a significant portion of these Trump radicals get organized enough to ramp up domestic terrorism.  Trump certainly isn't going to talk them down and he still has 2 solid months to fill their minds with the narrative that their country has been stolen from them, that their 2nd amendment rights will be suspended leaving them 'helpless', etc...

[geekette]

The GSA has informed Biden that transition can begin.  Hallelujah!