Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297339 times)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #500 on: December 19, 2019, 09:21:53 AM »
Tell me more about how impeachment helped Clinton.

All I remember is a Republican President (barely) winning in the election following that impeachment.

I'm not saying that it did - I'm saying that's a frequent narrative, and one used by DJT himself.  The basis of it seems to be that Clinton's poll numbers steadily climbed throughout the impeachment, and he had roughly 70% approval when he was acquitted.

As you said, the 2000 election saw a republican President (barely) but lost the popular vote.  OTOH Dems gained seats in both the Senate and the House.  So it's hard to say if a particular party "won" because of the impeachment of WJC, and if so which side.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #501 on: December 19, 2019, 09:22:43 AM »
Saw this on Facebook

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #502 on: December 19, 2019, 09:35:32 AM »
I will be surprised if any Republican in congress votes to impeach.  It would be political doom.

That said, the Republicans haven't provided any counter evidence, or witnesses of their own to defend Trump.  So it will be interesting to see how they defend the president without addressing any of the facts.

Does it matter what they say if they all just vote to absolve him anyway?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #503 on: December 19, 2019, 09:40:32 AM »
I will be surprised if any Republican in congress votes to impeach.  It would be political doom.

That said, the Republicans haven't provided any counter evidence, or witnesses of their own to defend Trump.  So it will be interesting to see how they defend the president without addressing any of the facts.

Does it matter what they say if they all just vote to absolve him anyway?

The vote to absolve Trump is a given.  But how they do it will give us an indication of their respect for the intelligence of the voters who support them.  If they don't even put on a pretense of a trial, you know that they they believe Republican voters are lemmings happy to follow them off any cliff.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #504 on: December 19, 2019, 09:48:00 AM »
I will be surprised if any Republican in congress votes to impeach.  It would be political doom.

That said, the Republicans haven't provided any counter evidence, or witnesses of their own to defend Trump.  So it will be interesting to see how they defend the president without addressing any of the facts.

Does it matter what they say if they all just vote to absolve him anyway?

The vote to absolve Trump is a given.  But how they do it will give us an indication of their respect for the intelligence of the voters who support them.  If they don't even put on a pretense of a trial, you know that they they believe Republican voters are lemmings happy to follow them off any cliff.
I think the term is "Sheeple"

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #505 on: December 19, 2019, 09:50:26 AM »
I will be surprised if any Republican in congress votes to impeach.  It would be political doom.

That said, the Republicans haven't provided any counter evidence, or witnesses of their own to defend Trump.  So it will be interesting to see how they defend the president without addressing any of the facts.

Does it matter what they say if they all just vote to absolve him anyway?

The vote to absolve Trump is a given.  But how they do it will give us an indication of their respect for the intelligence of the voters who support them.  If they don't even put on a pretense of a trial, you know that they they believe Republican voters are lemmings happy to follow them off any cliff.

All indicators I have seen so far by people who continue to support Trump today point to the lemming factor as being the most likely. After seeing a Trump supporter (one degree of separation from me in my social circle) say that Putin is a better American than any Democratic candidate, I've completely lost faith in anyone still supporting Trump.

nessness

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #506 on: December 19, 2019, 10:01:17 AM »
62% of Trump supporters say there is nothing he could do to lose their support. Nothing. So, yeah, lemmings sounds about right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.axios.com/monmouth-poll-trump-approval-a05b8144-1d1b-4296-a0d4-6ca0390b05ee.html

(I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been discussed.)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #507 on: December 19, 2019, 10:02:33 AM »
Several times I've heard Trump supporters point to Putin's statements as 'evidence' that the Ukraine article is bogus.  The logical leap one must take to get there is breathtaking:  Russia is at war with Ukraine, and is adversarial to the United States. Yet somehow we should listen to Putin on Ukraine?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #508 on: December 19, 2019, 10:17:40 AM »
Several times I've heard Trump supporters point to Putin's statements as 'evidence' that the Ukraine article is bogus.  The logical leap one must take to get there is breathtaking:  Russia is at war with Ukraine, and is adversarial to the United States. Yet somehow we should listen to Putin on Ukraine?

You're looking at it logically, which is where you're failing.  You have to look at it with feelies.

Imagine you feel that Donald Trump is great.  He's a successful businessman who built an empire all on his own from nothing.  You've even seen him on a TV program!  He pisses off those libtards, gays, and minorities that you hate.  Therefore you like and trust Donald Trump.

Donald Trump clearly likes and trusts Putin.  And the news has been telling you that Putin helped get Donald Trump into office.  Therefore, you should like and trust Putin too.

We've always been at war with EastAsia.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #509 on: December 19, 2019, 10:20:11 AM »
but Putin's forgotten the biggest rule of all, which is never start a land war in Asia
:-P (yes, good points on emotiona vs rational justification)

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #510 on: December 19, 2019, 11:30:04 AM »
Why do Republicans and media say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes FOR impeachment are from Democrats = partisan impeachment

But then forget to say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes AGAINST impeachment are from Republicans = partisan refusal to impeach

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #511 on: December 19, 2019, 11:44:01 AM »
Why do Republicans and media say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes FOR impeachment are from Democrats = partisan impeachment

But then forget to say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes AGAINST impeachment are from Republicans = partisan refusal to impeach

It convinces headline readers.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #512 on: December 19, 2019, 11:47:40 AM »
Why do Republicans and media say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes FOR impeachment are from Democrats = partisan impeachment

But then forget to say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes AGAINST impeachment are from Republicans = partisan refusal to impeach

I've also wondered why one of the biggest arguments for not impeaching DJT seems to be that the GOP controlled senate will acquit, so it's all a bunch of wasted time and money.  Yet the legislative certainty that it will get struck down did not stop the GOP from proposing more than 70 times to end the ACA - while Obama was still int eh WH and held veto power.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #513 on: December 19, 2019, 11:56:15 AM »
And "very serious people" are claiming that impeachment will now forever be a partisan tool, guaranteeing that all future presidents will be impeached whenever the opposing party controls the House.

But "very serious people" forgot to clutch their pearls when Republicans actually declared and put into practice a new maxim that Presidents shall get no judges appointed and no substantive legislation passed as long as the opposing party controls the Senate.

One of these things has been explicitly embraced and put into practice by a party, and one of these things has been specifically disavowed by a different party. Yet we're held to believe that those who are explicit about their corruption don't really mean it, and those who claim a higher good purpose for their actions are secretly lying and really the corrupt ones.

Well, we'll be here all day/week/month pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans and many conservatives in the last few years/decades.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 01:07:54 PM by PathtoFIRE »

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #514 on: December 19, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »
And "very serious people" are claiming that impeach will now forever be a partisan tool, guaranteeing that all future presidents will be impeached whenever the opposing party controls the House.

But "very serious people" forgot to clutch their pearls when a Republicans actually declared and put into practice a new maxim that Presidents shall get no judges appointed and no substantive legislation passed as long as the opposing party controls the Senate.

One of these things has been explicitly embraced and put into practice by a party, and one of these things has been specifically disavowed by a different party. Yet we're held to believe that those who are explicit about their corruption don't really mean it, and those who claim a higher good purpose for their actions are secretly lying and really the corrupt ones.

Well, we'll be hear all day/week/month pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans and many conservatives in the last few years/decades.

But but but the deep state!

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #515 on: December 19, 2019, 12:02:29 PM »
Why do Republicans and media say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes FOR impeachment are from Democrats = partisan impeachment

But then forget to say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes AGAINST impeachment are from Republicans = partisan refusal to impeach

I've also wondered why one of the biggest arguments for not impeaching DJT seems to be that the GOP controlled senate will acquit, so it's all a bunch of wasted time and money.  Yet the legislative certainty that it will get struck down did not stop the GOP from proposing more than 70 times to end the ACA - while Obama was still int eh WH and held veto power.

“I am completely and utterly perplexed by those who argue that perjury and obstruction of justice are not high crimes and misdemeanors” - Jeff Sessions (impeachment of Bill Clinton)

“There is a limit that the president can set.  He is a leader of a co-equal branch of government. I do not believe his failure to respond with his top officials and other requirements Congress has placed on him, amounts to an impeachable offense.” - Jeff Sessions (impeachment of Donald Trump)

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #516 on: December 20, 2019, 01:13:10 PM »
A woman in Iowa intentionally ran over a 14-year-old girl because she thought the girl was Mexican.

I wonder who she voted for? /s

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-iowa-woman-ran-girl-racist-attack-67855624


talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #517 on: December 20, 2019, 02:01:05 PM »
So I'm starting to see a lot of social media posts about the impeachment, most of them from friends in Texas--generally conservative backgrounds--who are ready for Pence.

Frankly, I think Trump's too stubborn, and I think McConnell is only now fully understanding that time works against his caucus: Pelosi doesn't have to send the articles to him until she's ready, and her majority is safer than his in 2020.

Meanwhile, the House can continue with additional investigations...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #518 on: December 20, 2019, 02:08:28 PM »
I’ve long wondered why more conservatives didn’t decide a trade for Pence would be better - more bona fide conservativism, less blasphemy, swearing, and outright corruption.

Mind you I’m not a big fan of Pence - but the GOP could get the same tax cuts and deregulation without the drama that is this reality tv show

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #519 on: December 20, 2019, 02:11:44 PM »
I’ve long wondered why more conservatives didn’t decide a trade for Pence would be better - more bona fide conservativism, less blasphemy, swearing, and outright corruption.

Mind you I’m not a big fan of Pence - but the GOP could get the same tax cuts and deregulation without the drama that is this reality tv show

Agreed.  Pence is also way more religious than Trump ever would be . . . I don't understand why people on the right wouldn't be clamoring for him.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #520 on: December 20, 2019, 02:30:43 PM »
Why do Republicans and media say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes FOR impeachment are from Democrats = partisan impeachment

But then forget to say this:
(Nearly) all of the votes AGAINST impeachment are from Republicans = partisan refusal to impeach

"We're not participating in a partisan process, and as long as we don't participate it's a partisan process."

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #521 on: December 20, 2019, 05:41:03 PM »
I think the Trump base enjoy the racist remarks, cruelty, and gladiatorial style politics, that is until it bites them in the end.
Maybe a few corn and soybean farmers are starting to wake up.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #522 on: December 20, 2019, 06:34:54 PM »
Ironically it’s a bunch of left wing Democrats that are begging for Pence to be installed as the president. Think about that for a moment ...

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #523 on: December 20, 2019, 07:01:36 PM »
I’ve long wondered why more conservatives didn’t decide a trade for Pence would be better - more bona fide conservativism, less blasphemy, swearing, and outright corruption.

Mind you I’m not a big fan of Pence - but the GOP could get the same tax cuts and deregulation without the drama that is this reality tv show

Agreed.  Pence is also way more religious than Trump ever would be . . . I don't understand why people on the right wouldn't be clamoring for him.

That requires admitting they might have been wrong and admitting defeat. A lot of people in the world are far too stubborn to get past that.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #524 on: December 20, 2019, 07:55:48 PM »
That requires admitting they might have been wrong and admitting defeat. A lot of people in the world are far too stubborn to get past that.
Someone wrote a whole book on that theme.

https://www.amazon.com/What-Happened-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton/dp/1501175564

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #525 on: December 23, 2019, 07:55:46 AM »
I’ve long wondered why more conservatives didn’t decide a trade for Pence would be better - more bona fide conservativism, less blasphemy, swearing, and outright corruption.

Mind you I’m not a big fan of Pence - but the GOP could get the same tax cuts and deregulation without the drama that is this reality tv show

Agreed.  Pence is also way more religious than Trump ever would be . . . I don't understand why people on the right wouldn't be clamoring for him.

I spent much of 2017 reading Breitbart. What I concluded was that Pence was viewed as too much of an establishment figure a la Paul Ryan. The truly energized base who swept Trump into power thought he was part of what they were trying to burn down.

jinga nation

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #526 on: December 23, 2019, 09:50:34 AM »
Trump rails against windmills: 'I never understood wind'

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/475701-trump-rails-against-windmills-i-never-understood-wind

I hate that 45 is going to shut down The Onion with such speeches.

Kris

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talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #528 on: December 23, 2019, 11:10:02 AM »
I worry that the NR news says more about NR than it does about Trump. The space for thoughtful conservative reflections on the issues of the day seems to be narrowing (Weekly standard closed earlier this year)

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #529 on: December 23, 2019, 11:11:28 AM »
I worry that the NR news says more about NR than it does about Trump. The space for thoughtful conservative reflections on the issues of the day seems to be narrowing (Weekly standard closed earlier this year)

I'd say that says a lot more about the conservative audience than it does about the NR.

jinga nation

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #530 on: December 23, 2019, 11:45:46 AM »
I worry that the NR news says more about NR than it does about Trump. The space for thoughtful conservative reflections on the issues of the day seems to be narrowing (Weekly standard closed earlier this year)

I'd say that says a lot more about the conservative audience than it does about the NR.

I think CT and NR are now making the case that it's OK for conservatives to openly disavow Trump and "take back the GOP".

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #531 on: December 23, 2019, 12:32:48 PM »
As Gov. Weld (first), then Joe Walsh and Mark Sanford declared primary challengers to Trump, I donated to each of their campaigns. The reward for that was the receive all these e-mails from crazy Republicans who are entering primary campaigns for state and local offices.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #532 on: December 30, 2019, 08:40:18 AM »
Like many of you, I tuned out everything while family was visiting last week.

Apparently, I missed the President--in a tweet--naming the whistle blower. Pretty sure that's a violation of Federal law.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #533 on: December 30, 2019, 08:59:55 AM »
Like many of you, I tuned out everything while family was visiting last week.

Apparently, I missed the President--in a tweet--naming the whistle blower. Pretty sure that's a violation of Federal law.

Federal law doesn't apply to the president though, as he's not allowed to be arrested while in office.  The only recourse for the people to reprimand the president is impeachment.  Which already happened.  Impeachment gets it's teeth from the senate.
 Republicans controlling the senate have indicated that they won't support any form of reprimand of the president related to impeachment - no matter what happens or what evidence is brought forward.

The law therefore no longer applies to Trump.  All hail the God king.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #534 on: December 30, 2019, 09:40:12 AM »
I worry that the NR news says more about NR than it does about Trump. The space for thoughtful conservative reflections on the issues of the day seems to be narrowing (Weekly standard closed earlier this year)

I'd say that says a lot more about the conservative audience than it does about the NR.

I had a lot of time to think about this over the break. Both the conservative and progressive movements have periods when they're in power and out of power. Seeing how they respond in each is instructive. Conservatives use times when they are in power to cut taxes. Always. Progressives had that brief window in 2009 to move the ball on health care. But now that they're out of power, they're still responsible for policing themselves for corruption and articulating unified policies.

Unfortunately, it's always wrong to conflate a movement with people in the movement, and I see many making this error.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #535 on: December 30, 2019, 09:46:30 AM »
I worry that the NR news says more about NR than it does about Trump. The space for thoughtful conservative reflections on the issues of the day seems to be narrowing (Weekly standard closed earlier this year)

I'd say that says a lot more about the conservative audience than it does about the NR.

I had a lot of time to think about this over the break. Both the conservative and progressive movements have periods when they're in power and out of power. Seeing how they respond in each is instructive. Conservatives use times when they are in power to cut taxes. Always. Progressives had that brief window in 2009 to move the ball on health care. But now that they're out of power, they're still responsible for policing themselves for corruption and articulating unified policies.

Conservatives have a long history of both cutting taxes and increasing/maintaining spending while in office.  It's politically much easier to follow fiscally irresponsible policies like this . . . too few will argue that their taxes should go up for the services that they depend on.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #536 on: December 30, 2019, 11:52:02 AM »
I had a co-worker tell me he was switching to the Roth IRA today. The Roth is basically a bet that future taxes will increase, a bet that has been a loser for more than a quarter century.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #537 on: December 31, 2019, 11:28:50 AM »
Eventually something will need to be done about sovereign debt.   It's not clear what's going to happen, but when investors refuse to buy government bonds something will have to give.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #538 on: January 01, 2020, 09:04:28 AM »
"Hours after North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signaled that his country is developing a “new strategic weapon” and could soon resume testing nuclear weapons and long-range ballistic missiles, President Donald Trump appeared to shrug off the potential threat — saying at a New Year’s Eve party that Kim “likes me” and is a “man of his word.”  "

Ok guys, toss up any other candidate and I will vote for them.  I would prefer Yang but I'll take anything at this point.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #539 on: January 01, 2020, 03:27:27 PM »
Ok guys, toss up any other candidate and I will vote for them.  I would prefer Yang but I'll take anything at this point.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #540 on: January 02, 2020, 05:47:37 AM »
It's easy to say "functioning adult".

But when that "functioning adult" is talking about a wealth tax of 6% annually, suddenly people start asking "how conservative did you want those judges?"

DarkandStormy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #541 on: January 02, 2020, 08:05:06 AM »
It's easy to say "functioning adult".

But when that "functioning adult" is talking about a wealth tax of 6% annually, suddenly people start asking "how conservative did you want those judges?"

Like 0.1% of the population would be hit be a wealth tax - if it even passes through the Senate (hint: it probably won't).

Citing a hypothetical, highly unlikely wealth tax as the reason to support the worst President in modern history is extremely dumb.  But yes, people are extremely dumb, I suppose.

Sanitary Engineer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #542 on: January 02, 2020, 08:15:40 AM »
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/12/31/790261705/farmers-got-billions-from-taxpayers-in-2019-and-hardly-anyone-objected

I read a little of "The Dictator's Handbook" and these payments to farmers look a lot like the method of paying your essential supporters actual cash for their continued support.  Which is the method described in the book for maintaining power.  The electoral college artificially reduces the pool of essentials that need to be paid off.  From this perspective it is easier to understand why Republicans have attached themselves to Trump - Trump is buying essential supportors with cash from the Treasury.  Cash from the Treasury. 
Has he been able to get his hands on enough of it though?  Trump has been campaigning since taking office and he has used every power of the executive branch to give his essential supporters money.

Compare these numbers to Bernie's 2019 campaign contributions of 34. something million and you can see how much more power Trump holds. 

Will Trump's handouts be morally repugnant to voters in farm country, who proclaim distaste for handouts while historically taking them whenever possible, or will the cash smooth over any shame from their new found place at the top of the welfare rolls? 
Combine payments to supporters and the power of white supremacy and why wouldn't the US have a second term for therealDJT.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #543 on: January 02, 2020, 10:37:00 AM »
Conservatives LOVE handouts, just not when they go to poors, children, minorities, or come from the Democratic Party.  Then they're bad.  I don't see Trump's bought votes as doing anything but good for him.

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talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #545 on: January 03, 2020, 08:36:11 AM »
I've been studying the Soleimani attack. David French appears to have a pretty good argument formed that it is lawful (depending heavily on the fact that it took place on Iraqi soil).

As with many Trump things, it feels like pro-Trump people are merely defending whether an action he takes is lawful, while those who oppose Trump are arguing that something is bad policy.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #546 on: January 03, 2020, 08:46:21 AM »
It's easy to say "functioning adult".

But when that "functioning adult" is talking about a wealth tax of 6% annually, suddenly people start asking "how conservative did you want those judges?"

Like 0.1% of the population would be hit be a wealth tax - if it even passes through the Senate (hint: it probably won't).

Citing a hypothetical, highly unlikely wealth tax as the reason to support the worst President in modern history is extremely dumb.  But yes, people are extremely dumb, I suppose.

This.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #547 on: January 03, 2020, 08:46:52 AM »
Quote
“General Suleimani was actively developing plans to attack American diplomats and service members in Iraq and throughout the region,” the Pentagon said in a statement.

While I'd like to have more information about this statement before forming opinions (is this for real, or just more pentagon bullshit fabrication like Iraq's 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' that the Bush administration made up?).  Have to say though . . . remotely executing foreign nationals for things that they might do . . . well, it's not a precedent that immediately warms the cockles of my heart.  If the police find out that someone talked with you about killing a co-worker, I don't feel like they should be free to murder you to prevent your potential actions.

As far as policy goes . . . meh.  The US loves war in the middle east, and Trump is desperate to draw attention away from what he's doing at home.  Seems like good foreign policy for the Republicans and a great recruitment tool for terrorists against the US.

OurTown

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #548 on: January 03, 2020, 08:47:01 AM »
Re the assassination of the Iranian general, I'm more than a little nervous about the consequences.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #549 on: January 03, 2020, 08:53:39 AM »
Re the assassination of the Iranian general, I'm more than a little nervous about the consequences.

Trump has been champing at the bit to start a war with Iran.  Remember in 2018 when he unilaterally broke the Iran nuclear deal that Iran had been following to the letter?  And then started illegal sanctions against Iran?