Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 357333 times)

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4600 on: October 05, 2020, 06:16:55 AM »
I think this is my first post in this long thread.  I find the inconsideration of the other guests of this hotel, especially doctors and families of patients of the Cleveland Clinic, monstrously selfish:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-family-aides-flouted-cleveland-hotel-mask-mandate/story?id=73409582

Yep. It reminds me of when Pence refused to wear a mask at the Mayo Clinic in violation of their rules. I wish these places would enforce their own rules. Itís insane that the Trump administration gets a free pass on all their bullshit. Selfish jackasses.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3979
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4601 on: October 05, 2020, 06:58:29 AM »
...especially given their apparently poor record of preventing virus transmission among important people in our government.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4602 on: October 05, 2020, 07:15:23 AM »
I personally canít see this as anything but a net-negative for his re-election campaign.  For months team Trump has tried to talk about anything BUT Covid, and now - five weeks to go - itís all anyone is focused on.   Three GOP senators plus a handful of high-profile aids in addition to Trump have come down from this event so far.  Even if Trump leaves the hospital today with no further symptoms or ill effects the focus will be on this Ďsuper-spreaderí event for the first half of October, if not longer.
Meanwhile, people are already voting in droves...

I doubt anybody that he made sick are going to hold him responsible. To do so now would be political suicide for the party.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4603 on: October 05, 2020, 07:36:02 AM »
I think this is my first post in this long thread.  I find the inconsideration of the other guests of this hotel, especially doctors and families of patients of the Cleveland Clinic, monstrously selfish:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-family-aides-flouted-cleveland-hotel-mask-mandate/story?id=73409582

I agree that this was monstrously selfish on behalf of the Trump family. 
I also believe it was a coordinated move by Family Trump and exactly in line with the GOP campaign strategy, which goes something like this:
  • blame China for the virus ("China Virus!")
  • Downplay its danger and stress we have all but defeated it ("Rounding the corner")
  • Pivot to something else while mocking Biden's mask wearing ("our economy is roaring back" and "Biden's got the largest face mask you've ever seen!")

The Trump family wanted to stir the pot by removing their masks in full view of the cameras.  A wanted to create the impression that the virus is a non-issue so the campaign would focus on anything else.  Of course this gambit wound up backfiring spectacularly in the most predictable way imaginable.  The virus doesn't care about politics and probability damns the ill-protected.

Prairie Gal

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4604 on: October 05, 2020, 07:38:28 AM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

SotI

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4605 on: October 05, 2020, 07:47:51 AM »
Yes, the American Troll-in-chief is doubling down again.
I think ppl who look at him as a normal person make a mistake considering him a politician. He's actually a gambler.

I suppose this statement alone will stop me from ever being let onto US soil.
Ah well, let's make it worth it:
UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Unfortunately, neither will happen.

As to Trump winning any electoral favours with his stunts - I think a lot of his voters vote for him based on his audacity, not on his morals. Will be interesting to see (from overseas) where the election chips will fall.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3979
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4606 on: October 05, 2020, 07:53:47 AM »
I saw a source suggesting that the Trump team practice of relying on the Abbott Laboratories rapid test results to screen people coming into a safe, mask-free, zone around the President was an overreach for that particular test.

Essentially, it was a statistical inevitability that there would eventually be a false negative, and it would have this exact result. This is a chain of events that would be predictable to anyone with an understanding of epidemiology.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4607 on: October 05, 2020, 08:16:02 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5898
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4608 on: October 05, 2020, 08:17:00 AM »
Appreciate the shout-out, but Iíd be remiss to provide a strong opinion on what is going on with an individual with the very limited information provided on the presidentís status. I will raise three general points, though:

1) it is hard to avoid over-treating a ďVIPĒ, but efforts should be made to avoid this. In general, changes to standard practice due to a patientís perceived importance is usually harmful. Standard practices are generally standardized to maximize efficacy.

2) providing experimental therapies outside of a clinical trial is unethical except under the most dire circumstances. Compassionate use is reserved for people with no other options. This suggests either favoritism towards the president without clear need for the antibodies, or severe illness.

3) patients with severe enough covid to be admitted tend to have unusually rocky courses, even outside of the ICU. It would not be surprising if the presidentís clinical status fluctuates wildly, and would explain the mixed messages. I know from first-hand experience that you may be updating the family that the patient is ok at 3pm, and calling them in to say goodbye at 3am. This is true in all critical illness, but covid seems to kick it up a notch.

So, I think he probably is having a standard course of COVId for someone his age and health. It is appropriate for there to be limited information and temper expectations. If heís not intubated, thatís a good sign. I donít think any further speculation on his status or prognosis is possible.
Thanks.  Overtreating a VIP seems to be right.  I do wonder how come the White House had that experimental antibody treatment on hand for use within hours of diagnosis?  Did they have it on hand just in case?  Was this Trump himself demanding the "latest and best"?  I guess we might find out in time.

It seems to me now that the mixed/inadequate messaging is probably a direct result of Trump interfering in what is being said, wanting complete control over an upbeat message given without factual details is entirely in line with his approach over the least four years.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4200
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4609 on: October 05, 2020, 08:21:31 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

Surely there is an online scorecard somewhere that lists all his controversies that everyone could circulate on social media? Maybe with references?

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4200
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4610 on: October 05, 2020, 08:27:07 AM »

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4611 on: October 05, 2020, 08:34:42 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

Surely there is an online scorecard somewhere that lists all his controversies that everyone could circulate on social media? Maybe with references?

I kinda want a comedian to do a sketch that summarizes every scandal and controversy that Trump has instigated chronologically... possibly to music.  This is right up SNL's alley.  Given that he's (by my estimation) averaged roughly one scandal per week that's 200+ scandals since he became Candidate Trump. 
Kinda like Billy Joel's 'We Didn't Start the Fire'...but instead of covering three decades of national politics it'd be three years of Trump.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4200
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4612 on: October 05, 2020, 08:41:22 AM »
Perfect.

Ishmael

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4613 on: October 05, 2020, 09:46:19 AM »

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
Agreed, and well said.

OzzieandHarriet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4614 on: October 05, 2020, 09:58:54 AM »
It looks like he is getting better, which would give him the best of two worls:
1) He could say "See, it is not that bad, even I with all my stress and my age won it after a few days".
2) I am a hero! I was hospitalized and I still won!!

For his publicity stand I actually had to laugh. That is so much an autocrat thing (remember Putin ice bathing?)!
It is a show (mostly to the own side) of "See, I am still healthy, no reasont to pick a successor and start a revolution"
(For more information about that topic read the book in my signature.)

Itís not at all clear heís actually getting better. If they're really giving him a huge dose of steroids that could be giving him a burst of energy.

Isnít a common course of this illness a mild beginning with symptoms abating and then a return of it much worse the second week? So irresponsible if they let him out to infect even more people - because no way in hell is he going to be considerate of anyone else on his own.

dividendman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Age: 38
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4615 on: October 05, 2020, 10:26:33 AM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

It's clear that Secret Service lives are expendable to this president.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14127
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4616 on: October 05, 2020, 12:09:48 PM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

It's clear that Secret Service lives are expendable to this president.

If you are a narcissist (and odds are that he is one) other people only matter in terms of what they can do for you.  I doubt he sees them as more than interchangeable safety appliances.  And really only for show, because he is The Greatest and doesn't need protection.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4200
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4617 on: October 05, 2020, 12:19:11 PM »
Then by all means send Trump out to walk the streets of America alone. Hopefully he will walk through some poorer white and minority neighborhoods along the way. Perhaps he might gain a little insight into people's lives?

Nah. The guy is unable to comprehend a different POV.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4618 on: October 05, 2020, 01:04:04 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14127
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4619 on: October 05, 2020, 01:06:40 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

For sure.  Not that masks are 100% protection but one can hope at least some have been wearing them?  I'd want to sit beside an air vent (in not exhaust).

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3281
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4620 on: October 05, 2020, 01:12:47 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

Also, two of McEnany's aides tested positive. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/05/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-coronavirus-white-house/index.html

But, of course, Trump is headed back to the White House at 6:30pm today.  Maybe to infect anyone left?

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4621 on: October 05, 2020, 01:13:16 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

For sure.  Not that masks are 100% protection but one can hope at least some have been wearing them?  I'd want to sit beside an air vent (in not exhaust).

Frankly I'm a bit shocked that they are still holding in-person press briefings at all after several within the West Wing tested positive. 

The Supreme Court continues to hear cases and deliver verdicts via teleconference.  Why in god's name are they allowing and encouraging reporters to be in close proximity to people within this outbreak??

Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

PDXTabs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2124
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Portland, OR, USA
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4622 on: October 05, 2020, 04:21:37 PM »
Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

Everybody knows that unprotected sex is perfectly safe as long as you finish in under three minutes.

rantk81

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 703
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4623 on: October 05, 2020, 04:24:56 PM »
Latest outrage. He apparently just tweeted: "Don't be afraid of Covid. Don't let it dominate your life."

Talk about irresponsible...

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4624 on: October 05, 2020, 04:28:01 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14127
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4625 on: October 05, 2020, 04:47:57 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

Well, there are apparently downsides to being sensible, like staying healthy.    /S

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4626 on: October 05, 2020, 05:35:15 PM »
Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

Everybody knows that unprotected sex is perfectly safe as long as you finish in under three minutes.

Literally laughed out loud.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4627 on: October 05, 2020, 05:35:47 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

Well, there are apparently downsides to being sensible, like staying healthy.    /S

I guess it's a good thing he got half of his staff sick too, otherwise they couldn't relate.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4628 on: October 05, 2020, 06:07:01 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 06:08:59 PM by jim555 »

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5133
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4629 on: October 05, 2020, 06:33:47 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5716
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4630 on: October 05, 2020, 06:50:02 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4631 on: October 05, 2020, 06:53:43 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

I've read a few articles suggesting he was sick when he nominated Barnett at the White House on the 27th. A number of attendees are also sick now.

Edit: He's back in the White House and making a spectacle of it with no mask, still infectious, and still having breathing difficulties. The building itself is emptying with two members of McEnany's staff sick, three Republican Senators (members of the judicial committee), Christie, Conway, and counting.  A couple members of the WH housekeeping staff got sick a few weeks ago and were told to keep quiet.  Giuliani gave a ridiculous interview to Fox News saying Biden just wants to scare people while coughing during the interview. Trump claimed he's feeling his best in 20 years and he might be immune to the virus.   Someone reminded the world on Twitter that Hermann Caine said he felt fine three days after his diagnosis, and was dead a week later.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 05:17:38 AM by Travis »

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2186
  • Location: Germany
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4632 on: October 06, 2020, 04:09:35 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4633 on: October 06, 2020, 05:03:12 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!

While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions. His actions and motivations werenít even motivated by legality or morality, but rather to inflict maximum damage on one specific party (the Dems).  The majority of what Assange was peddling had nothing to do with illegal activity at all, but was private conversations released to embarrass multiple parties.

One is a citizen acting out of concern for the law.  The other is a person acting selectively and vindictively to harm others. 
Their actions arenít comparable.  Their motives are completely different. Their conduct is not the same.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5898
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4634 on: October 06, 2020, 05:16:50 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

Feivel2000

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Germany
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4635 on: October 06, 2020, 06:10:27 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 06:44:03 AM by Feivel2000 »

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4636 on: October 06, 2020, 06:26:30 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?

The Abu Ghraib incidents were first described by released prisoners as early as the summer of 2003. The Army investigated the initial torture claims in Jan 2004. CBS and Seymore Hersh broke the story worldwide in April 2004. Wikileaks was started in 2006.

Feivel2000

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Germany
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4637 on: October 06, 2020, 06:42:16 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?

The Abu Ghraib incidents were first described by released prisoners as early as the summer of 2003. The Army investigated the initial torture claims in Jan 2004. CBS and Seymore Hersh broke the story worldwide in April 2004. Wikileaks was started in 2006.

You're right. I only Ctrl-F'ed "Abu-Ghuraib" in the wikileaks wikipedia article. Shame on me.

brandon1827

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 176
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4638 on: October 06, 2020, 06:53:10 AM »
So...The Atlantic posted an article recently about a Trump campaign scheme to appoint their own electors in battleground states (Florida, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, & North Carolina) who would go against the popular vote for their state and instead cast votes for Trump. The depths that these people will attempt to go to in order to steal this election know no bounds. The whole goal seems to be to cast as much doubt about the election as possible...cause, you know, all the "rampant fraud" with mail-in votes that may take days to count after November 3rd...so that somehow makes them fraudulent. Then with all the chaos, Trump seems to be hoping the decision gets kicked up to the courts and that his now hand-picked Supreme Court hands him another term. This shit is terrifying

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4639 on: October 06, 2020, 07:17:47 AM »
So...The Atlantic posted an article recently about a Trump campaign scheme to appoint their own electors in battleground states (Florida, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, & North Carolina) who would go against the popular vote for their state and instead cast votes for Trump. The depths that these people will attempt to go to in order to steal this election know no bounds. The whole goal seems to be to cast as much doubt about the election as possible...cause, you know, all the "rampant fraud" with mail-in votes that may take days to count after November 3rd...so that somehow makes them fraudulent. Then with all the chaos, Trump seems to be hoping the decision gets kicked up to the courts and that his now hand-picked Supreme Court hands him another term. This shit is terrifying

Yep. The campaign is also trying to recruit poll watchers to intimidate voters and election workers in these states.

I'm signed up to work as an election worker in Michigan, and our GOP-controlled state supreme court just overturned the governor's state of emergency (including all health restrictions and extended unemployment). The department of health and human services enacted another mask mandate, but this only goes through the end of October. In other words, we'll be like Wisconsin by Thanksgiving.

In summary: we'll be working the polls while faced with a double-whammy of no enforceable mask laws and an infiltration of Trump-supporting poll intimidators. We're not supposed to allow campaign literature or clothing in the polls, but I'm a 5-foot-tall (1.5 m) woman who will be working with (most likely) 4 elderly people. I don't think any of us is going up against an armed, angry, maskless, MAGA-hatted Trump-bot.

Seriously, anyone who still supports Trump and his bullshit is actively working against the best interests of our country.

MasterStache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2675
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4640 on: October 06, 2020, 07:20:20 AM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

I've read a few articles suggesting he was sick when he nominated Barnett at the White House on the 27th. A number of attendees are also sick now.

Edit: He's back in the White House and making a spectacle of it with no mask, still infectious, and still having breathing difficulties. The building itself is emptying with two members of McEnany's staff sick, three Republican Senators (members of the judicial committee), Christie, Conway, and counting.  A couple members of the WH housekeeping staff got sick a few weeks ago and were told to keep quiet.  Giuliani gave a ridiculous interview to Fox News saying Biden just wants to scare people while coughing during the interview. Trump claimed he's feeling his best in 20 years and he might be immune to the virus.   Someone reminded the world on Twitter that Hermann Caine said he felt fine three days after his diagnosis, and was dead a week later.

Yeah nothing shows strength like struggling to breath and blatantly exposing others for your own personal agenda. 

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4641 on: October 06, 2020, 07:29:14 AM »
Serious Question: Is Trump still contagious?

From the CDC website: Available data indicate that persons with mild to moderate COVID-19 remain infectious no longer than 10 days after symptom onset. Persons with more severe to critical illness or severe immunocompromise likely remain infectious no longer than 20 days after symptom onset.

Everything I've rad and heard reports that Trump reported "mild symptoms on Thursday.  That was 5 days ago.  So... maybe/probably?  I certainly wouldn't go near someone who tested positive for Covid for at least 10 days.

turketron

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 592
  • Age: 34
  • Location: WI
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4642 on: October 06, 2020, 07:36:48 AM »
Yep. The campaign is also trying to recruit poll watchers to intimidate voters and election workers in these states.

I'm signed up to work as an election worker in Michigan, and our GOP-controlled state supreme court just overturned the governor's state of emergency (including all health restrictions and extended unemployment). The department of health and human services enacted another mask mandate, but this only goes through the end of October. In other words, we'll be like Wisconsin by Thanksgiving.

In summary: we'll be working the polls while faced with a double-whammy of no enforceable mask laws and an infiltration of Trump-supporting poll intimidators. We're not supposed to allow campaign literature or clothing in the polls, but I'm a 5-foot-tall () woman who will be working with (most likely) 4 elderly people. I don't think any of us is going up against an armed, angry, maskless, MAGA-hatted Trump-bot.

Seriously, anyone who still supports Trump and his bullshit is actively working against the best interests of our country.

Yep, my wife and I are working the polls here in WI. We're planning on self-quarantining for 2 weeks afterwards. At least we're in Madison, where people are taking it a bit more seriously than the rest of the state, and compliance with the mask mandate is pretty much universal. In Madison at least there's been a massive turnout for poll workers to replace the at-risk folks who would normally work them- they typically have ~3000 workers for a general election and have over 6000 this year.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4643 on: October 06, 2020, 07:53:26 AM »
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4644 on: October 06, 2020, 08:26:10 AM »
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.

Here in MI, election challengers have to be certified by the parties. Any yahoo off the street can be a poll watcher. The latter group has fewer rights of inspection, but Trump-bots do not seem to understand laws, rules, and regulations so I doubt that will stop them. Even a crowd of MAGA hats outside the building might be enough to intimidate the large number of minority voters in my area.

I sincerely hope that as many people as possible avail themselves of absentee voting. Unfortunately, the MAGA-hats are the ones bleating about how no one should be able to vote absentee and if you aren't willing to show up in person, you shouldn't get to vote. So I expect we'll be bombarded with unmasked, angry voters. Good times.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4645 on: October 06, 2020, 10:11:23 AM »
This photo irritates me.


Why?  There are 10 medical professionals (I'm assuming all doctors) standing around, nine of them doing f-all - all for a photo op?

I get having the lead medical professional give a press report on the status of POTUS (though it was a bit cringewortthy to watch)... but these other blokes are just a political eye-candy.  They serve no purpose here, and I'm certain they could be doing some good treating patients instead.

I'd be irritated as hell if my boss told me I was to stop what I was doing and stand outside at attention and silent for an hour in my whitest white-coat.  It's also kind of an insult to all of us that feel lucky to get 15 dedicated minutes with our one doctor when we are ill.

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2186
  • Location: Germany
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4646 on: October 06, 2020, 10:42:10 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)


Quote
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.
Um.... do I get this right? A poll watcher is someone who watches that everything goes according to rules, right? Someone that does not do anything in the process of voting itself, right?

Here in Germany it is a right everyone has, and no one has to register before. Because, you know, does the police tell a suspect they are watching him??
If you can't do that in the US than the "democracy" there is even worse than.... wait, I forgot you use voting machines. You don't need a watcher for those things. Watching them does not change anything if they screw up the votes.

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4647 on: October 06, 2020, 11:04:35 AM »

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13728
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4648 on: October 06, 2020, 11:08:38 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5898
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4649 on: October 06, 2020, 11:17:02 AM »

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

One other point of correction: Assange would never have been extradited from either Sweden or the UK to the USA without a guarantee from the USA government that the death penalty would not be imposed.  It's a legal obligation on European countries courtesy of the European Convention on Human Rights that they do not impose the death penalty or extradite anyone to a third country if the death penalty could be imposed.  There was, and is, zero chance of Assange getting a death sentence.