Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297395 times)

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #450 on: December 16, 2019, 01:58:02 PM »
The final wording of the articles of impeachment include the text, "President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States." (emphasis added). Assuming the articles pass in the House, acquital in the Senate, and re-election in 2020: how does this play out in the 2021 joint session of congress to certify the electoral college results. Can the House vote to certify if he is disqualified. This hasn't been an issue in prior second term presidencies.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #451 on: December 16, 2019, 02:53:17 PM »
The final wording of the articles of impeachment include the text, "President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States." (emphasis added). Assuming the articles pass in the House, acquital in the Senate, and re-election in 2020: how does this play out in the 2021 joint session of congress to certify the electoral college results. Can the House vote to certify if he is disqualified. This hasn't been an issue in prior second term presidencies.

A high official's impeachment alone does not disqualify them from holding and enjoying "any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States." 

To be disqualified the high official  must be convicted by the Senate.

Conviction by the Senate is final and not appealable.


THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Here is the last clause of ARTICLE 1, SECTION 3.


Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
 

 
 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 03:06:16 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #452 on: December 16, 2019, 02:55:13 PM »
I think that disqualification appears to be directly linked to a judgement by the Senate with regards to impeachment, and therefore if the Senate does not make such a judgement, then the House would not be able to refuse certification based on those grounds. I've understood that the disqualification part is optional, at least with regards to past impeachments, so the Senate could come to a judgement of removal but not one of disqualification, but I'm not sure it could do the opposite.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #453 on: December 16, 2019, 05:19:31 PM »
Nevertheless, it is nearly unfathomable to me that Graham and McConnell would take the public stances that they have, seeing as they will have to serve as jurors at some point in this process if it plays out fully. Why make their declarations so public? Maybe to dissuade impeachment from moving beyond the House?

Their seats are pretty much election-proof.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #454 on: December 16, 2019, 06:14:28 PM »
Nevertheless, it is nearly unfathomable to me that Graham and McConnell would take the public stances that they have, seeing as they will have to serve as jurors at some point in this process if it plays out fully. Why make their declarations so public? Maybe to dissuade impeachment from moving beyond the House?

Their seats are pretty much election-proof.

Not in Grahamís case, surprisingly.

https://www.newsweek.com/lindsey-graham-tied-democrat-south-carolina-senate-challenger-jaime-harrison-poll-1477336

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #455 on: December 17, 2019, 08:03:46 AM »
I think Graham is more worried about losing in a primary than losing to a Democrat.

I think McConnel is worried about losing...not at all. He has pretty much been following this brazen, ruthless track for about ten years, and every roll keeps coming up 7 for him.

And when he does finally lose, he can enjoy his wife's inherited wealth in retirement.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #456 on: December 17, 2019, 08:47:26 AM »
I think Graham is more worried about losing in a primary than losing to a Democrat.

I think McConnel is worried about losing...not at all. He has pretty much been following this brazen, ruthless track for about ten years, and every roll keeps coming up 7 for him.

And when he does finally lose, he can enjoy his wife's inherited wealth in retirement.

I suspect the current GOP is selling out the party's future in exchange for holding onto power for a few more cycles and stacking the courts with conservative justices (which will persist for probably 20 years).

It's hard for me to see how they ever win back non-white voters, and shifting demographics won't be kind to any party that can draw only single-digit support from brown people.  It also seems like younger, college-educated folks are fed up with the climate-change denial and do-nothing approach and put the blame (rightly IMO) squarely on the GOP. 

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #457 on: December 17, 2019, 09:43:40 AM »
1. There are so many small states that they can hold Senators, governors, and legislatures through this storm.

2. Even after the shitstorm of Watergate, they were back in the WH in just one election cycle.

People keep claiming Trump will kill the Republican party. How do you kill something that is nearly half of all people who vote? Those voters and donors will still be there.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #458 on: December 17, 2019, 10:05:38 AM »
1. There are so many small states that they can hold Senators, governors, and legislatures through this storm.

2. Even after the shitstorm of Watergate, they were back in the WH in just one election cycle.

People keep claiming Trump will kill the Republican party. How do you kill something that is nearly half of all people who vote? Those voters and donors will still be there.
He won't -- he's doing what the party wants...as evidenced by their religious and fanatical support.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #459 on: December 17, 2019, 10:12:45 AM »
1. There are so many small states that they can hold Senators, governors, and legislatures through this storm.

Yep. Small/low population state Senators are the Republican firewall.

Quote
2. Even after the shitstorm of Watergate, they were back in the WH in just one election cycle.

People keep claiming Trump will kill the Republican party. How do you kill something that is nearly half of all people who vote? Those voters and donors will still be there.

Evangelicals are dying. Millennials aren't returning to Christianity.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/millennials-are-leaving-religion-and-not-coming-back/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-evangelicals-sacrificing-the-future-in-search-of-the-past/

Quote from: 538
Nearly one-third of white Americans raised in evangelical Christian households leave their childhood faith.2 About 60 percent of those who leave end up joining another faith tradition, while 40 percent give up on religion altogether.

When a party depends on the super religious for 1/2 of its support, it's got a real problem in a time of increased secularism.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #460 on: December 17, 2019, 10:51:42 AM »
People keep claiming Trump will kill the Republican party. How do you kill something that is nearly half of all people who vote? Those voters and donors will still be there.

That's basically my point regarding shifting demographics.  The GOP currently represents roughly half of all people who vote.  Their problem is that this percentage will decrease every election cycle as the number of white voters and evangelicals decreases unless they can somehow reclaim the growing share of latinos, asians and other minorities.

1. There are so many small states that they can hold Senators, governors, and legislatures through this storm.
One could argue these small states are currently allowing them to retain an outsized amount of power now (e.g. compare total votes cast vs representation.  I'm questioning how long such a bulwark can hold unless the party starts appealing to a broader tent.

Quote
2. Even after the shitstorm of Watergate, they were back in the WH in just one election cycle.
No arguments there.  History is filled with examples of political parties over-reaching once they gain the upperhand.  It's almost a law of politics.  Arguably the ACA was the last example, and this deregulation mania might be the next. Should Dems find themselves in control of all branches of g'vt in 2020 or 2024 I cynically expect them to ramrod something like a 2x corporate tax hike which might cause them to lose all $upport for the next several cycles.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #461 on: December 17, 2019, 11:03:49 AM »
People keep claiming Trump will kill the Republican party. How do you kill something that is nearly half of all people who vote? Those voters and donors will still be there.

That's basically my point regarding shifting demographics.  The GOP currently represents roughly half of all people who vote.  Their problem is that this percentage will decrease every election cycle as the number of white voters and evangelicals decreases unless they can somehow reclaim the growing share of latinos, asians and other minorities.

That's why Republicans have been disenfranchising minority voters for years now.  Voter ID laws, gerrymandering, stacking the supreme court . . . these are ways that the party can hang on to more power than they should from a democratic perspective.  It'll catch up to them eventually, but the goal is to maximize damage to the country before it does.  And they're winning.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #462 on: December 17, 2019, 11:17:02 AM »
Nevertheless, it is nearly unfathomable to me that Graham and McConnell would take the public stances that they have, seeing as they will have to serve as jurors at some point in this process if it plays out fully. Why make their declarations so public? Maybe to dissuade impeachment from moving beyond the House?

Their seats are pretty much election-proof.

Yeah but why telegraph your corruption so loudly for all to see? Leaked video of a speech where McConnell confesses he'll coordinate the Senate trial with Trumps legal team would be one thing, but he went on national TV and said this essentially unprompted. And Giuliani is so brazenly corrupt. Twitter experts on totalitarian regimes insist that this is one of the ways these regimes gain power, by asking supporters to keep supporting incrementally more outlandish lies, norms-breaking, and law-breaking until your supporters are essentially complicit in your actions. This explains people like Trump, Giuliani, and Barr; but complicit Senators and Reps are supposed to help provide the veneer of popular support and the needed (but ultimately fictional) link between the past and the present, and these actions just seem to get in the way. Why shout the quiet parts out so loud right now? I'd almost call it a cry for help in any other context.

Anyone else totally not surprised that Susan Collins is digging herself into another hypocritical hole? She's so baffled that Senator Schumer would make extremely public his appeal to McConnell for a full legitimate trial with arguments and witnesses. ďI was surprised that he didnít first sit down with the Senate majority leader and discuss his proposals rather than doing a letter that he released to the press...The more constructive way would have been for him to sit down with Senator McConnell.Ē Yet when asked about McConnell pledging total coordination with Trump's legal team, all she had to say was ďEvery senator has to decide on his or her own how to approach it, that would not be the approach that Iíve takenĒ. Anyone who can convince themself that supporting Kavanaugh for SCOTUS was not a vote to dismantle a woman's right to choose is clearly someone who can rationalize just about any position, regardless of reality.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #463 on: December 17, 2019, 11:34:34 AM »
Collins is a goner. After Kavanaugh, there were millions of campaign dollars set aside for her opponent even before the candidate was announced.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #464 on: December 17, 2019, 11:51:48 AM »
Collins is a goner. After Kavanaugh, there were millions of campaign dollars set aside for her opponent even before the candidate was announced.

This is our neck of the woods. Collins will have a tight race, which is something given how she's coasted to vistory her previous two elections.  As you mentioned plenty of people are pissed over Kavanaugh - particularly in/around teh populated Portland area.  but don't discredit how conservative and white the more rural parts o the state are.  Many feel like Jared Golden 'stole' the election with ranked-choice voting and are pretty bent out of shape over it.  Many more are pissed the the new Dem governor Mills is pushing through the controversal utility corridor bringing powerlines down from Quebec.  In short the Dems are spending a lot of capital, which could be enough for Collins to squeek by with a win.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #465 on: December 17, 2019, 12:24:52 PM »
@nereo can you send me a private message with slightly more narrative about the Quebec power lines initiative in Maine? I work for a public utility in NC, so that's kind of my jam, and I'm really curious.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #466 on: December 17, 2019, 03:35:17 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing. It is, for all intents and purposes, a long form twitter rant. He said that this will go in the history books so that future generations can understand this in context. I'm sure it will be read, but maybe not in the way that he intends. A few snippets:

"More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials."
"You view democracy as your enemy!"
"You are the ones interfering in America's elections. You are the ones subverting America's Democracy. You are the ones Obstructing Justice. You are the ones bringing pain and suffering to our Republic for your own selfish personal, political, and partisan gain."

Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #467 on: December 17, 2019, 03:42:43 PM »
That's really very humorous!     The man can certainly spout bullshit...

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #468 on: December 17, 2019, 03:54:02 PM »
Sounds like the self-righteous ranting of someone right before committing a mass shooting.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #469 on: December 17, 2019, 04:02:37 PM »
"Whatever decision is made should be based on the evidence" says Lindsay Graham regarding the Clinton impeachment.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1206719567915081729?s=09

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #470 on: December 17, 2019, 04:15:01 PM »
Nevertheless, it is nearly unfathomable to me that Graham and McConnell would take the public stances that they have, seeing as they will have to serve as jurors at some point in this process if it plays out fully. Why make their declarations so public? Maybe to dissuade impeachment from moving beyond the House?

Their seats are pretty much election-proof.

Yeah but why telegraph your corruption so loudly for all to see?

Because there are no consequences. It's not like somebody is going to try to impeach him. Or even give him a challenge in his next election.  He doesn't see himself as responsible for a branch of government, but rather as a shield against the Democratic Party. And the Republican base loves him for it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #471 on: December 17, 2019, 05:03:45 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #472 on: December 17, 2019, 05:11:59 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #473 on: December 17, 2019, 05:45:22 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

I keep thinking that, over the next few decades we're going to get a steady trickle of insider accounts and stories about all that transpired during the "Trump Years'.  Sure - several accounts have been published already, but I'm guessing once Trump dies and after we've had a few years between administrations we'll get a more complete story of what the f*< has been going on behind the scenes.

It may become the longest-running realty TV show in history. 

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #474 on: December 17, 2019, 06:06:10 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

My money is on Giuliani.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #475 on: December 17, 2019, 06:11:40 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

My money is on Giuliani.
Not Hannity? :/

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #476 on: December 17, 2019, 06:20:12 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

My money is on Giuliani.
Not Hannity? :/

Miller?

Ok, nm. There's nothing in it about minorities.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #477 on: December 17, 2019, 06:38:38 PM »
Sooo....  Trump sent a 6 page letter to Pelosi explaining what he really thinks about this whole impeachment thing.
...
Here's where you can read it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html

Wow.  Just... wow.

Mostly I'm curious whether anyone else read, edited or helped write this letter.

There is no way he wrote that letter. Itís way too articulate. Plus, he doesnít even read documents that long, much less write them.

Someone else on his team wrote it, and then he added the occasional interjection.

My money is on Giuliani.
Not Hannity? :/

I don't think he's smart enough. Giuliani would know how to write the letter so that no viable legal action could be taken.

Sanitary Engineer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #478 on: December 18, 2019, 07:44:41 AM »
The letter ends "to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record".  I think the question is, will the Trump Presidential Library be editing this document in perpetuity or are Trump's lies so enduring that it doesn't matter what the record shows, the only record that matters is Trump's.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #479 on: December 18, 2019, 07:57:20 AM »
Suppose Pence were to run, declaring Trump as his running mate on day 1 of his campaign. Everyone would know that this would imply Pence were to be a figure head, without anyone saying it.

Same problems, and then some. The 12th amendment states that no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States Ad Trump would be ineligible to be president he would consequentially be ineligible to be VP.

So he canít run for VP, nor can Obama or WJ Clinton or GW Bush.

Add to this that Pence would need to run and win.

Who says Trump couldn't be the man behind the curtain? In an undefined position like his daughter and sound-in-law ("advisors"). Like Cheney was. Currently Trump just lobs random ideas sometimes seeded by FoxNews and other conservative media. His staff figures out how to implement them. He could continue to do that. Pence would be the face, Trump would be the crazy idea man. Certain people could continue to manipulate Trump if Pence would go along being the front man.

The problem is Trump's ego wouldn't allow him to stay behind the curtain. He'd come out and brag constantly and the GOP would let him do it. It would be a secret non-secret.

I've long felt that party politics was a version of this anyhow. Decisions and priorities are set in closed door strategy meetings, fed to the highest politician in their group - sometimes a president - and that's what we see happen in the media. Looks like the President's idea when actually it is the idea of a group of political strategists, donors, and lobbyists.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #480 on: December 18, 2019, 08:05:22 AM »
hypotheticals aside, we are straying from the core question, which is "can Trump somehow be president for a third term?" - which basically boils down to "not without a constitutional amendment" which in itself is absurdly unlikely given the level of support it would need to pass.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #481 on: December 18, 2019, 09:21:44 AM »
I was the main person who said that he could run for an win a third term. I admitted defeat.

Can we return to enjoying this remarkable letter from the President?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #482 on: December 18, 2019, 09:38:17 AM »
I was the main person who said that he could run for an win a third term. I admitted defeat.

Can we return to enjoying this remarkable letter from the President?
The NYT did a fact check of the letter with predictable results. I was hoping that they would fact check his assertion about due process at the Salem Witch Trials as a subtle piece of snark. That said, if he would prefer the Senate trial to convert to using the Salem procedures, I am sure we can find some heavy rocks to extract a confession from him.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #483 on: December 18, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
Fact-checking a letter like that is just playing into Trump's hand. He works in a world in which other values--including the raw emotion and privilege to power--are elevated.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #484 on: December 18, 2019, 10:04:09 AM »
Fact-checking a letter like that is just playing into Trump's hand. He works in a world in which other values--including the raw emotion and privilege to power--are elevated.

Any amplification or replication of the lies and boasts in that letter are to Trump's advantage.  I am going over to the "Should be impeached because" thread and promoting for "because he is a liar".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #485 on: December 18, 2019, 10:16:52 AM »
Fact-checking a letter like that is just playing into Trump's hand. He works in a world in which other values--including the raw emotion and privilege to power--are elevated.

This is a difficult thing to handle. On the one hand I get rather frustrated when I see Democrats and reporters continually make the same claims of what the president did or did not do without addressing the arguments coming from the other side. The claims are easily refutable and as a person who is very interested in reaching logical conclusions, fact checking is very appealing to me. On the other hand, I think you may be right with regard to most of the population. There are many people who will never read into such fact checking reports any deeper than a headline so all they actually see is "[President Lies Again]" while constantly being exposed to his ludicrous rants.

I think I'm of the opinion that fact-checking should be done for historical purposes but it's frustratingly useless in the current environment.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #486 on: December 18, 2019, 10:21:48 AM »
I have noticed a shift in most news outlets over the past 2+ years.  Whereas before they would respond to some BS thing Trump said with somethiong like "claims made by teh president which could not be substantiated" they will now say "The president repeated his claim, which has been widely debunked". 
Most news outlets are still loathe to use the word "lie" but they are far more likely to state that what the president says has been proven to be untrue, rather than more squishy language like "unsubstantiated" or "unverified".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #487 on: December 18, 2019, 10:28:34 AM »
So, this is interesting. Trump tried to block the (mostly symbolic) vote that recognizes the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-sides-with-turkey-blocks-congress-recognizing-armenian-genocide-2019-12

My father's cousin and his wife are generally pretty smart people but also very devout (religious) orthodox. They have become increasingly conservative and judging by what they post on Facebook I'm SURE they voted for Trump and plan to do so again.

My family's church stands with, and identifies with the (Christian) Armenians who were killed, because Greek Christians were also oppressed, displaced and killed by the Turks. In fact one of the wife's most recent post was about a monument consecrated in Greece memorializing the Armenian genocide.

I wonder if Trump's remarks and actions will give them pause. Probably not, but I can only hope.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 10:30:25 AM by partgypsy »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #488 on: December 18, 2019, 10:38:58 AM »
Currently listening to the GOP opposition of the articles of impeachment. Apparently they really do think the American public is that stupid and uninformed.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #489 on: December 18, 2019, 11:02:31 AM »
Currently listening to the GOP opposition of the articles of impeachment. Apparently they really do think the American public is that stupid and uninformed.

They know for a fact that no conservatives are watching any of this, nor have they read the "transcript" that wasn't actually a transcript.

Which leaves them free to stage their political theater, the entire point of which is to: 1) pander like cowards to their audience of one; and 2) provide sound bytes for the right-wing media who will reinforce the low information conservative base's unquestioning belief that Trump is innocent and this is all a witch hunt.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #490 on: December 18, 2019, 11:13:44 AM »
Currently listening to the GOP opposition of the articles of impeachment. Apparently they really do think the American public is that stupid and uninformed.

They know for a fact that no conservatives are watching any of this, nor have they read the "transcript" that wasn't actually a transcript.

Which leaves them free to stage their political theater, the entire point of which is to: 1) pander like cowards to their audience of one; and 2) provide sound bytes for the right-wing media who will reinforce the low information conservative base's unquestioning belief that Trump is innocent and this is all a witch hunt.

It's amazing. I listened to at least a dozen speakers before I shut off NPR. One party spent their time talking about upholding Constitutional law. The other party spent their time blaming the first party, suggesting that they don't actually have a valid reason for opposition.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #491 on: December 18, 2019, 11:30:34 AM »
"when you don't have a good argument to make you complain about the process, and when you can't complain about the process you bang the table".

I'm seeing a lot of table-banging going on by the GOP.  Many of the speaker's arguments amount to "but the Dems just hate DJT!" 
Whether you are liked or disliked shouldn't matter when it comes to whether you broke the laws/rules.  Sadly, it seems to here.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #492 on: December 18, 2019, 12:04:42 PM »
"when you don't have a good argument to make you complain about the process, and when you can't complain about the process you bang the table".

I'm seeing a lot of table-banging going on by the GOP.  Many of the speaker's arguments amount to "but the Dems just hate DJT!" 
Whether you are liked or disliked shouldn't matter when it comes to whether you broke the laws/rules.  Sadly, it seems to here.

Yeah, they're performing for their master. Nothing more. And they know it.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/885086/white-house-said-trump-working-all-day-instead-hes-been-angrily-tweeting-about-impeachment

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #493 on: December 18, 2019, 06:56:50 PM »
Looks like pretty close to a party line vote approving both articles of impeachment.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeachment-vote.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Interestingly, Tulsi Gabbard declined to vote and just registered as present; hard to read this as anything but a calculated move not to anger conservatives. Regardless, twitter feeds should be pretty hot tomorrow.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #494 on: December 19, 2019, 05:08:21 AM »
Widow responds after Trump suggests John Dingell may be in hell

No, Trump. Just no. Rep. Debbie Dingell and her husband are and were tireless advocates for our hometown, state, and country. I'm not surprised by his disrespect, but yet again disgusted.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #495 on: December 19, 2019, 07:22:05 AM »
Classy.

Perhaps it's just who I'm connected to online, but I'm seeing a lot of people celebrating the impeachment vote, some jubilant and some simply crass.

Were I in Congress, I would vote to impeach. I am not happy at all. It feels like a treating a symptom--perhaps only symbolically--at a time when the disease is pretty horrible.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #496 on: December 19, 2019, 07:30:44 AM »
I will be surprised if any Republican in congress votes to impeach.  It would be political doom.

That said, the Republicans haven't provided any counter evidence, or witnesses of their own to defend Trump.  So it will be interesting to see how they defend the president without addressing any of the facts.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #497 on: December 19, 2019, 07:31:46 AM »
Classy.

Perhaps it's just who I'm connected to online, but I'm seeing a lot of people celebrating the impeachment vote, some jubilant and some simply crass.

Were I in Congress, I would vote to impeach. I am not happy at all. It feels like a treating a symptom--perhaps only symbolically--at a time when the disease is pretty horrible.

I feel the same as you. I feel it needed to be done. But Iím not cheering about it. Itís awful that weíre here.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #498 on: December 19, 2019, 07:41:48 AM »
I feel like we are here largely because Congress has for years shirked its duties towards the executive branch whenever it suited their short-term political priorities.  It didn't start with 2016 either. Neither party has been willing to cross its own standard-bearer for decades.

That said - I think we could have avoided this whole mess had the GOP put some guardrails around Trump early on.  Perhaps this could have been as simple as forceful public condemnation whenever he called other political adversaries htings like 'Unamerican', 'human-scum', 'shifty' etc. Standing up in unison to say "only Congress has the power to appropriate funds and no you cannot reallocate them as you wish" might have prevented this entirely.  maybe.

At the same time I know some in GOP circles have helped steer us here, and are silently cheering that Trump will be impeached and certaintly aquited, assuming it will help his reelection campaign as it did WJC.  I know I'm getting all sorts of "donate now to fight the impeachment!" emails and mailings, and it has sucked so much attention away from the Democratic primaries.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #499 on: December 19, 2019, 07:58:46 AM »
Tell me more about how impeachment helped Clinton.

All I remember is a Republican President (barely) winning in the election following that impeachment.