Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 357332 times)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4450 on: September 30, 2020, 01:07:56 PM »
If Joe Biden is asking for my vote, then he should have to go through these debates. Trump is obnoxious, but I'm hiring someone who will have to go toe-to-toe with Berlusconi and Erdogan.

Besides, it's still better than Sec. Clinton having to look at the women who conducted affairs with her husband in the front row. What she went through in her debates was positively hellacious.

Biden has said every time he's ever been asked that he's looking forward to and definitely going to do the debates. If the debates don't happen it'll be because Trump refuses to participate.

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4451 on: September 30, 2020, 01:11:19 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  ~5000-6000.

That's progress.

The kkk is far from the only white nationalist organization in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations#United_States

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4452 on: September 30, 2020, 01:19:20 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  5000-6000.

That's progress.

It's not really about the Klan or Proud Boys or Patriot Prayer members who officially belong to a group. It's the hangers-on who agree with them and want their team to "win."

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

Quote from: vox
Whether or not they would describe themselves as alt-right, Hawley argues, they share the movement’s belief in a politics that promotes white interests above those of other racial groups.

If Hawley is right, then the alt-right’s constituency isn’t a tiny fringe. It’s about 11 million Americans.

Some fine people:



We won't be driving our Prius with a Biden sticker through certain areas in the south. SO's hippie parents live in a small town red area but they drive pickups. And pack.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4453 on: September 30, 2020, 01:25:57 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  ~5000-6000.

That's progress.

The kkk is far from the only white nationalist organization in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations#United_States


Immigrations and Customs Enforcement made the list.  :D

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4454 on: September 30, 2020, 02:14:07 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  5000-6000.

That's progress.

It's not really about the Klan or Proud Boys or Patriot Prayer members who officially belong to a group. It's the hangers-on who agree with them and want their team to "win."

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

Quote from: vox
Whether or not they would describe themselves as alt-right, Hawley argues, they share the movement’s belief in a politics that promotes white interests above those of other racial groups.

If Hawley is right, then the alt-right’s constituency isn’t a tiny fringe. It’s about 11 million Americans.

Some fine people:



We won't be driving our Prius with a Biden sticker through certain areas in the south. SO's hippie parents live in a small town red area but they drive pickups. And pack.

Yep, it's the ones who are too smart to affiliate officially with the KKK, Proud Boys, and similar or to wear the Stars and Bars that are the real problem. They're flying under the radar, amassing arsenals in their homes, and spewing toxic bullshit in between prayin' to Jeebus on Sunday and Wednesday night.

I'm still planning to work on Election Day, but we definitely have some Good Ol' Boys (and gals) in the neighborhood, and there may be trouble. I hope our voters of color and in hijab will avail themselves of early voting for their own safety. Fuck Trump and fuck his supporters.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4455 on: September 30, 2020, 03:16:25 PM »
He's displayed just that at the debate. Could he go 30 seconds without interrupting anyone? Next time I hope they mute the microphone when the other candidate is speaking! It seems that Trump's tactic was to constantly interrupt and break the rules of the debate, only to claim bias when he's called out.

Both parties have to agree to the rules of the debate beforehand or there wouldn't be a debate, and I bet you ever dollar I have that the Trump campaign would never agree to a debate where the moderator could mute the mic of the person who's not supposed to talk. This is how it is because this is how Trump wants it.

I disagree.  Trump has proven to be too much of a narcissit to refuse a nationally televised chance to attack his opponent, and the polls show that he desperately needs to move the needle,  and quickly. Trump's base has been clamoring for more debates on the hope that Biden would have some sort of senior moment that could "prove" their theory that he's senile.
IMO the network could have and should have cut off each debator's respective microphones whenever it was not their turn to speak.  But Wallace said publicly that he wanted to be "as invisible as possible" and let the debate play out on its own.  Which is what happened.

I don't think anyone was well served by last night's sideshow.  Had each candidate been allowed to (and forced to) speak uninterrupted for 2 minute stretches followed by a rebutal (which is what both sides actually agreed to in the debate rules) the public would have been better served.

Well it looks like we might find out. The Commission on Presidential Debates has said:
Quote
Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues. The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.

And Biden's in:
Quote
I just hope there’s a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruption. I’m not going to speculate what happens in the second or third debate. My hope is they’re able to literally — say the question is asked of Trump, here’s a microphone, he has two minutes to answer the question. No one else has the microphone. I don’t know what the rules will be … but I’m looking forward to it.

Oops, I didn't see this earlier, Trump's campaign has weighed in too:
Quote
They’re only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night. President Trump was the dominant force and now Joe Biden is trying to work the refs. They shouldn’t be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

So there you have it, they like the way that debate went, and any attempt to mute mics to abide by the agreed-upon rules is going to be "changing the rules to help Biden."
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 03:18:09 PM by sherr »

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4456 on: September 30, 2020, 05:52:41 PM »
So Trump obviously broke the mutually agreed upon rules (each has 2 minutes to speak uninterrupted) is now Biden moving the goalposts? That's rich.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 06:22:22 AM by partgypsy »

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4457 on: October 01, 2020, 04:58:54 AM »
Oops, I didn't see this earlier, Trump's campaign has weighed in too:
Quote
They’re only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night. President Trump was the dominant force and now Joe Biden is trying to work the refs. They shouldn’t be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

So there you have it, they like the way that debate went, and any attempt to mute mics to abide by the agreed-upon rules is going to be "changing the rules to help Biden."
Sure they liked it. They didn't elect and continue to support Trump because he is an honorable, respectable and mature adult. He put that lib in his place. 

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4458 on: October 01, 2020, 06:06:14 AM »
I think Trump's relentless interruptions were calibrated to provoke stuttering from Biden.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4459 on: October 01, 2020, 06:28:49 AM »
I think Trump's relentless interruptions were calibrated to provoke stuttering from Biden.

Perhaps. I think that's just Trump's nature as well. Whenever someone talks about how Trump behaves in closed door briefings, it seems to be very similar. Interrupting and going on tangents. 

Biden did mix his words up at times. But I think he got some of his points across without feeding too much into the tantrums.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4460 on: October 01, 2020, 07:27:30 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4461 on: October 01, 2020, 07:40:56 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Yep, even when Trump stayed quiet for small stretches you could tell Biden was speaking as if he would be cut off at any second. That makes it really hard to maintain a train of thought.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4462 on: October 01, 2020, 07:46:33 AM »
So Trump obviously broke the mutually agreed upon rules (each has 2 minutes to speak uninterrupted) is now Biden moving the goalposts? That's rich.

That sounds about right to Trumpian logic. Of course I doubt he and his team believe this but he'll say this and his supporters will eat this up.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4463 on: October 01, 2020, 07:46:58 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Yep, even when Trump stayed quiet for small stretches you could tell Biden was speaking as if he would be cut off at any second. That makes it really hard to maintain a train of thought.

Agreed. I honestly don't know how he did it. I couldn't have.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4464 on: October 01, 2020, 08:19:07 AM »
On the other hand Trump still today has a 92% approval rating among Republicans, and my parent's church is currently telling people they have to be willing to take up arms to "dispatch" the "Marxists who want to take away your freedom" in the oncoming "inevitable and just" Civil War II, so there's absolutely a lot of blame to spread around on the right for Trump.

How much are you willing to bet that not one of them has read a complete Marx book?


This is really rediculous. Biden should just go on talking during his 2 minutes and completely ignore Trump. And of course Trump is free to do the same.
I agree that it was never his intention to actually debate. All Trump can do is intimidate and derail his opponent.
If he behaves like a tantrum baby, react to him like he is one.



sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4465 on: October 01, 2020, 08:26:31 AM »
On the other hand Trump still today has a 92% approval rating among Republicans, and my parent's church is currently telling people they have to be willing to take up arms to "dispatch" the "Marxists who want to take away your freedom" in the oncoming "inevitable and just" Civil War II, so there's absolutely a lot of blame to spread around on the right for Trump.

How much are you willing to bet that not one of them has read a complete Marx book?

Oh they absolutely haven't, I guarantee it. But being opposed to "socialism"/"Marxism" is not the truly evil thing here, even if it's coming from a place of complete ignorance / propaganda. It's the intent of inciting a Civil War to murder your political opponents that is truly evil.

economista

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4466 on: October 01, 2020, 12:25:11 PM »
I am going to need a hiatus from facebook for awhile because I keep getting irate when I see my family members posting about the debate. From their "pro-trump" points of view:

1) The moderator was obviously biased and only tried to ask him "gotcha" questions
2) He was debating the moderator more than he was debating Biden and the moderator should lose his job at Fox News
3) The moderator wouldn't allow him to respond to anything and constantly cut him off but never cut off Biden
4) Trump was the only person on stage who looked "Presidential" - Biden looked like a pathetic wimp
5) Trump was the dominant force on stage and really showed Biden whose boss
6) After that debate every American should be voting for Trump
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)
8) Trump was simply answering questions in a normal manner but Biden was purposely acting like wimp so it made Trump look like a bully (WTF?!)

...and it goes on and on. This is just the things I saw this morning! My great aunt, who I love dearly, purchased a giant Trump 2020 flag and replaced her American Flag with it. Then she made a post about how Trump is the best President we have ever had and the debate exemplified that. I just can't take it anymore.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4467 on: October 01, 2020, 12:45:51 PM »
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)

I've also heard that he had an advanced tooth mic on one of his molars. Did you notice how we was holding his jaw?!?

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4468 on: October 01, 2020, 12:53:15 PM »
I am going to need a hiatus from facebook for awhile because I keep getting irate when I see my family members posting about the debate. From their "pro-trump" points of view:

1) The moderator was obviously biased and only tried to ask him "gotcha" questions
2) He was debating the moderator more than he was debating Biden and the moderator should lose his job at Fox News
3) The moderator wouldn't allow him to respond to anything and constantly cut him off but never cut off Biden
4) Trump was the only person on stage who looked "Presidential" - Biden looked like a pathetic wimp
5) Trump was the dominant force on stage and really showed Biden whose boss
6) After that debate every American should be voting for Trump
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)
8) Trump was simply answering questions in a normal manner but Biden was purposely acting like wimp so it made Trump look like a bully (WTF?!)

...and it goes on and on. This is just the things I saw this morning! My great aunt, who I love dearly, purchased a giant Trump 2020 flag and replaced her American Flag with it. Then she made a post about how Trump is the best President we have ever had and the debate exemplified that. I just can't take it anymore.
I mean, we all know that Fox Anchors such as Chris Wallace who asked gotcha questions like "will you denounce white supremacists" are clearly members of the Deep State. Qanon told us so. /s

Snark aside, news out of Texas, where governor Abbott is reducing ballot  drop boxes to one per county (Houston gets one, for example) is likely a preview of things to come in other states.
https://www.newsandguts.com/texas-gop-gov-orders-early-voting-drop-off-locations-closed/

The election may be rigged, but not in the direction Trump is claiming.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4469 on: October 01, 2020, 02:08:06 PM »
And in news that is not surprising in the slightest, Donald Trump Asks Why Would He “Allow The Debate Commission To Change The Rules” (Source: News and Guts; Twitter)

So...the 74-year-old president of the US is going to refuse to debate, play the victim, and blame Biden for fighting dirty, right? Pretty much an average day in Trump-land.

This is what happens when you are never told "No" and never given negative consequences in life.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4470 on: October 01, 2020, 02:26:07 PM »
And, DONALD TRUMP GOES FULL WHITE SUPREMACIST AT MINNESOTA CAMPAIGN RALLY (Source: Vanity Fair

From last night,

Quote
Speaking to supporters in Duluth, Minnesota, Trump warned that Joe Biden wants to “inundate” their state with refugees (read: nonwhite people) and then attacked Representative Ilhan Omar, whom he spent a good chunk of last year telling to “go back” to Somalia, despite the fact that she’s been a U.S. citizen since 2000.

"Another massive issue for Minnesota is the election of Joe Biden’s plan to inundate your state with a historic flood of refugees,” Trump told the crowd. “Biden and Crazy Bernie Sanders have agreed on a manifesto…it’s the worst thing you’ve ever seen. But they’ve pledged a 700% increase in refugees…and what about Omar…what is going on with Omar, I’ve been reading these reports for two years about how corrupt and crooked she is.... Then she tells us how to run our country, can you believe it? How the hell did Minnesota elect her? What the hell is wrong with you people? What the hell happened?”

If you still think he isn't a white supremacist, I've got a bridge for sale, maybe you should take a look.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4471 on: October 01, 2020, 03:26:42 PM »
Anyone getting outraged by Trump's behavior at the debate is missing the point. He was using a common tactic employed by many people in many situations - especially in hyper-aggressive work environments.

Trump was trying to get Biden to lose his composure. The constant interrupting, bringing up Biden's dead son in a nasty manner - all fit the playbook of someone who is trying to rile the opponent up. Add to this that Biden has a stuttering problem and you would realize exactly why this was a very rational course of action for Trump.

I was obviously impressed by the fact that Trump managed to surprise so many people, which shows he did a very good job! I was even MORE surprised that Biden did NOT lose his composure!! That is HARD! I used to have stage fright (any more than 5 people in a meeting and I would clam up - just like any other garden variety geek). It took me a long time to learn to do what Biden did in the debate - which is to keep his composure in a situation where a competitor is being deliberately nasty with an aim to advance his agenda. This is yet more remarkable because Biden's original "problem" (=stuttering) is generally a much bigger challenge than my stage fright!!

I never had much of a respect for Biden. Historically, he seems to have always managed to be on the wrong side of the history on legislative issues.

After this debate, however, my respect for him went up a few notches. I have to double check his history and see what was really up with his odd positions regarding Iraq war, the Clinton crime bill etc. etc. Maybe I was just judging him from the incorrect reference frame in that values have changed since when he came of age in politics. Or may be he was always a master negotiator who eked out the best possible results without claiming much credit for himself ("credit" is a valuable currency for political negotiations).

It will also be interesting to see what Trump does in the next debate or two. Now that he knows that you can't really rile Biden up and have him lose composure - what will he try? Interesting!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 03:29:32 PM by ctuser1 »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4472 on: October 01, 2020, 03:32:23 PM »
It will also be interesting to see what Trump does in the next debate or two. Now that he knows that you can't really rile Biden up and have him lose composure - what will he try? Interesting!

I think he'll refuse to participate because he won't want to play by the new rules and will claim victimhood and persecution. His supporters all seem to love to play the victim, too, so they'll be extra sympathetic.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4473 on: October 01, 2020, 03:41:48 PM »
I don't see why Democrats should insist on new rules!!

Let Trump be as Trumpy as possible, and yet if Biden manages to hold his own then that would work out in his favor.

Trump's antics were entertaining in 2016, now it is tiresome! Let him dig his own grave!

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4474 on: October 01, 2020, 04:31:57 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.


PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4475 on: October 01, 2020, 04:57:02 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4476 on: October 01, 2020, 05:59:29 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4477 on: October 01, 2020, 07:31:24 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

Not the one the question was directed to, but I have a perspective close to what PKFFW wrote, hence jumping in.

I've always considered the debate to be entertainment + distraction made for the TV age back in 50s and 60s. Before that, the debate's weren't even a "thing".

I don't think policy positions delivered in a soundbite fashion has any relevance other than their entertainment value. Any soundbites delivered in these debates seem to me to be generally be inconsequential to the actual subsequent legislative actions taken. Obama was delivering a message of hope - not detailed policy proposals. For Bush, debates didn't matter anyway. I wasn't politically "aware" before that - so don't know how debates used to go.

Even if you don't grant the above premise, are there really some voters whose minds will be made up based on any real policy details (questionably) discernible from the made-for-the-tv soundbites from the debates?

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4478 on: October 01, 2020, 07:39:04 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/hope-hicks-top-trump-adviser-who-flew-him-debate-tests-n1241751

If they do the other debates, they should require Trump’s entourage to all wear masks. They were asked to do so Tuesday and refused.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4479 on: October 01, 2020, 08:07:46 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.
Firstly, because I think the vast majority that tune in do not care at all for what the "other guy" has to say.  They have already made up their minds about the "other guy" and believe what they want to believe and will deliberately choose to ignore any information to the contrary.

In addition I think that same vast majority aren't really interested in what "their guy" has to say either.  They are only interested in seeing "their guy" "win" and, again, will deliberately ignore any information to the contrary of that outcome too.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4480 on: October 01, 2020, 08:38:19 PM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?


Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4481 on: October 01, 2020, 09:21:54 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

Not the one the question was directed to, but I have a perspective close to what PKFFW wrote, hence jumping in.

I've always considered the debate to be entertainment + distraction made for the TV age back in 50s and 60s. Before that, the debate's weren't even a "thing".

I don't think policy positions delivered in a soundbite fashion has any relevance other than their entertainment value. Any soundbites delivered in these debates seem to me to be generally be inconsequential to the actual subsequent legislative actions taken. Obama was delivering a message of hope - not detailed policy proposals. For Bush, debates didn't matter anyway. I wasn't politically "aware" before that - so don't know how debates used to go.

Even if you don't grant the above premise, are there really some voters whose minds will be made up based on any real policy details (questionably) discernible from the made-for-the-tv soundbites from the debates?

I mostly agree, but you could argue that it gives us a chance to see if the candidates can think on their feet, maintain their composure, and speak like a leader. Those are qualities I want in a president who negotiates with other world leaders and commands the military.

That's in theory at least, I think we already had a pretty good idea of where the current candidates stand on these qualities.

As for undecided voters, it's hard to imagine many people are waffling between Biden and Trump but I could see someone who hasn't decided between a 3rd party candidate/not voting and Biden/Trump.


ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4482 on: October 01, 2020, 10:15:12 PM »
As for undecided voters, it's hard to imagine many people are waffling between Biden and Trump but I could see someone who hasn't decided between a 3rd party candidate/not voting and Biden/Trump.

Two thousand and score years ago, a bearded guy made some comments that appear very prescient to me.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1497/1497-h/1497-h.htm#link2H_4_0008
Quote
And does not tyranny spring from democracy in the same manner as democracy from oligarchy—I mean, after a sort?

How?

The good which oligarchy proposed to itself and the means by which it was maintained was excess of wealth—am I not right?

Yes.

And the insatiable desire of wealth and the neglect of all other things for the sake of money-getting was also the ruin of oligarchy?

True.

And democracy has her own good, of which the insatiable desire brings her to dissolution?

What good?

Freedom, I replied; which, as they tell you in a democracy, is the glory of the State—and that therefore in a democracy alone will the freeman of nature deign to dwell.

Yes; the saying is in every body's mouth.

I was going to observe, that the insatiable desire of this and the neglect of other things introduces the change in democracy, which occasions a demand for tyranny.
... and this discussion goes on for a while.

I'm trying to recall from memory (I read this when in college, long time ago), his primary screed against democracy (he had many favorable things to say as well, he was living in one at that time) is that it necessarily devolves into tyranny when:
1. People who haven't put in the requisite mental effort to arrive at the proper decision drives the results of the democracy. (Note that he did not take an elitist tack. A "thinking" peasant is better for democracy than a "low information" elite.)
2. People demand freedoms divorced from responsibilities.

I think this bearded guy was predicting the kind of undecided voter you speak of.

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4483 on: October 01, 2020, 10:26:11 PM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
Maybe for the same reason that ppl watch wrestling shows or trash tv shows.
Just a thought.

Note: I am not American and did not see the TV "debate", just reading this thread here makes me feel like watching real live trash TV. Actually, sounds a lot like a typical live Jerry Springer show (that was a thing in the 90s, when I last had TV).

v8rx7guy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4484 on: October 01, 2020, 11:07:06 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 11:11:32 PM by v8rx7guy »

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4485 on: October 01, 2020, 11:28:44 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

I can't quite get my head around what kind of new shitshow this will spawn.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4486 on: October 01, 2020, 11:31:01 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

I can't quite get my head around what kind of new shitshow this will spawn.

It almost sounds all too convenient... "Trump defeat the China virus before election ".  Color me a skeptic.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4487 on: October 02, 2020, 12:04:42 AM »
If he's asymptomatic or mildly so, he can still do the debates virtually. This would be good for the moderator, when one of them tries to talk over the other he can mute him, and we'll be treated to the sight of one of the old guys gesticulating wildly but mutely.

Many lolz will be had.

shuffler

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4488 on: October 02, 2020, 12:27:51 AM »
It almost sounds all too convenient... "Trump defeat the China virus before election ".  Color me a skeptic.
I want to see it.  Both b/c I don't trust him, and b/c it will be good for my soul.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4489 on: October 02, 2020, 03:45:52 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4490 on: October 02, 2020, 04:00:18 AM »
My uneducated guess is: if Trump is (and stays) asymptomatic, he will push the "virus is overblown" narrative. If he actually falls ill, he will "beat the virus" in the bestest, bad-assed manner ...- and lambast China (more).
Unless he dies, ofc.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4491 on: October 02, 2020, 04:02:15 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4492 on: October 02, 2020, 04:24:47 AM »
Does anyone think Trump is faking having Covid-19 because he has doubts he will be reelected? Could this be a way he weasels out and claims he is too sick to carry on duties of president and hands the reins over to Pence?

Michael Cohen predicted that Trump could possibly resign if he loses and would resign during the transition period leading to January. Cohen predicted that Pence would pardon Trump of any crimes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-lose-2020-election-biden-polls-predictions-michael-cohen-b421047.html

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4493 on: October 02, 2020, 04:41:31 AM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
If you are asking me I thought I was pretty clear.

Firstly, I stated I thought only a small percentage were interested in hearing what both candidates had to say.  I did NOT say that no one was interested in the debate.

Why would they tune in?  To see their guy win, to see the other guy lose, morbid curiosity, nothing better to do, popcorn entertainment.  There are plenty of reasons someone might have tuned in that have absolutely nothing to do with an actual interest in what both candidates had to say regarding the topics of debate.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4494 on: October 02, 2020, 05:04:14 AM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
If you are asking me I thought I was pretty clear.

Firstly, I stated I thought only a small percentage were interested in hearing what both candidates had to say.  I did NOT say that no one was interested in the debate.

Why would they tune in?  To see their guy win, to see the other guy lose, morbid curiosity, nothing better to do, popcorn entertainment.  There are plenty of reasons someone might have tuned in that have absolutely nothing to do with an actual interest in what both candidates had to say regarding the topics of debate.

One thing which continues to surprise me is how many people don’t pay any attention to the election until September.  They don’t vote in primaries (let alone follow who the various contenders are) and couldn’t tell. You one difference between different candidate’s platforms.

As clichéd as it sounds, the debates are the first time many ‘get to know’ the challenger.  I can’t tell you how many people I met over the summer who knew exactly two things about Biden - 1) he’s a democrat and 2) he was VP.  These people tend to avoid political news programs and only vote in presidential years. So in normal years the debate serves as a crash-course in where each candidate stands, sound bites and all.

I think by assuming very few actually watch the debates to learn anything we are letting our own, politically active experiences bias our views.  Most Americans simply don’t pay attention to politics most of the time. It’s shocking (to us politically minded folks), but a large percentage can’t name the latest Supreme Court nominee, or a single cabinet member, or even who the VP is.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4495 on: October 02, 2020, 05:33:54 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy, the My Pillow Guy, has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 05:36:32 AM by Roadrunner53 »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4496 on: October 02, 2020, 05:37:20 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

rantk81

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4497 on: October 02, 2020, 06:13:17 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

While I wouldn't put it past Trump to try to lie about being positive for COVID, -- I think there are just too many other people who would know the test results, who wouldn't let that farce play out.  Think of all the former people around Trump who are now talking to the media, releasing recorded conversations, writing books, etc.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4498 on: October 02, 2020, 06:21:54 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy, the My Pillow Guy, has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?
Might be time for some bleach injection. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4499 on: October 02, 2020, 06:27:24 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

except.... Trump has never been one to 'hunker down' when news is bad.  His MO has always been to hit back, be aggressive, etc. 
I just don't see him agreeing to fake an illness he's spent months downplaying and avoiding.

Or - looked at another way, what kind of person is most likely to contract the virus?  One that constantly attends large gatherings of largely unmasked people and who eschews the accepted social distancing guidelines?  Does that sound like anyone who's constantly in the news?
Frankly I'm a bit surprised he's gone this long before catching Covid.