Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297356 times)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3700 on: August 25, 2020, 01:57:27 PM »
Conservatives are trying to use that the riots are going on to demonstrate that liberal-run cities are lawless places. This will turn out their base.

At the margins, I think there are a lot of quiet people who want change, who realize that the virus was mishandled by Republicans, and who realize that Biden is a lot less scary than Sanders or a far-left alternative that could be there. Some of them may have voted for Trump in 2016 because they didn't think they had as much to lose as it turns out they did. They are keeping quiet because they don't want their Trump-supporting friends (the ones who got riled up by Clinton last cycle) to bully them.

For all Trump's talk of a 'silent majority' I wonder about this too.  I live in a district that went for Trump by 20 points after narrowly supporting Obama in 2012, and it's easy to find people with enormous Trump/Pence signs in their yard (often these are the same folks driving pickups with American flags and 'thin-blue-line' stickers on the bumper). Openly support Biden and you risk being ostracized (or worse).  Yet in private conversations I've heard a lot of people talk about how their lives are worse off and how he didn't meet the hype. 

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3701 on: August 25, 2020, 02:05:06 PM »
I read an article on NPR today about how Trump (and Republicans in general) have extremely narrowed their coalition by seemingly embracing the worst positions on many topics. The article mentioned how they are increasingly losing college educated white voters and are inching further out into the rural areas where the people are insulated by the types of demographic, economic, & cultural change that the more populated areas of the country are experiencing. Before Trump, you'd see many Republicans arguing for trying to make inroads into more diverse voting demographics, but now that the party fully belongs to Trump, they've all but abandoned that approach and are focused almost solely on the older, white, evangelical voters that seemingly carried Trump to victory in 2016. That base has somewhat eroded since 4 years ago, so that constituency is smaller than ever. If I can find the article, I'll post it....but it had me more hopeful than I was feeling earlier today that Trump can be defeated in November.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3702 on: August 25, 2020, 11:06:56 PM »
RNC Day 2 Summary:

Socialism Cancel culture is bad.

Covid? What's that?

See how diverse we are! We're not racist!

Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.


Eta: Plus more Hatch Act violations.

Leisured

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3703 on: August 26, 2020, 12:18:24 AM »
Two stories about Trump being interviewed one on one, rather than at a news conference. He is terrifyingly irrational. I did not know that Rolling Stone does politics.

https://au.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-slow-the-testing-down-13091/

https://au.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-axios-interview-jonathan-swan-15196/

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3704 on: August 26, 2020, 03:56:35 AM »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3705 on: August 26, 2020, 06:20:33 AM »
RNC Day 2 Summary:

Socialism Cancel culture is bad.

Covid? What's that?

See how diverse we are! We're not racist!

Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.


Eta: Plus more Hatch Act violations.

Indeed I remember in 2012 when everyone knew Clinton was positioning herself to run for President in four years (the way Pompeo seems to be now), and she managed to go nowhere near the convention or the election.

economista

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3706 on: August 26, 2020, 06:51:20 AM »
RNC Day 2 Summary:

Socialism Cancel culture is bad.

Covid? What's that?

See how diverse we are! We're not racist!

Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.


Eta: Plus more Hatch Act violations.

Plus, allowing someone to speak who thinks women shouldn’t have the right to vote. It is their Christian duty to allow their husbands to vote instead.  https://www.newsweek.com/tweet-resurfaces-rnc-speaker-abby-johnson-saying-one-vote-per-household-1527630


OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3708 on: August 26, 2020, 07:57:51 AM »
RNC Day 2 Summary:

Socialism Cancel culture is bad.

Covid? What's that?

See how diverse we are! We're not racist!

Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.


Eta: Plus more Hatch Act violations.

Plus, allowing someone to speak who thinks women shouldn’t have the right to vote. It is their Christian duty to allow their husbands to vote instead.  https://www.newsweek.com/tweet-resurfaces-rnc-speaker-abby-johnson-saying-one-vote-per-household-1527630

Abby Johnson also thinks that police should profile her adopted biracial son. She is an awful, awful person who has served as one of the public faces of the Catholic "pro-life" movement for many years, along with Trump supporter Fr. Frank Pavone (the one who keeps a dead fetus and uses it to desecrate Catholic altars).

Note that Roe v. Wade was upheld 47 years ago. Republican presidents have held the Oval Office for 27 of those 47 years. Abortion isn't going anywhere, and any anti-abortion voter who can't see that the Republican party is duping and using them to stay in power can no longer plead innocent ignorance.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3709 on: August 26, 2020, 09:34:16 AM »
@OtherJen , I agree with you that in many places in the country, abortion procedures will continue to be available even if Rowe falls. I also agree that Roberts is too smart to let it fall openly and quickly, which would provoke an incredible backlash.

But in many places that are safely controlled by Republicans, women seeking these procedures will have to endure much unnecessary trauma and expense because of the progress conservatives have made over the last 30 years, while Presidents of both parties have occupied the White House. It easy to find pieces like: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/alabama-georgia-abortion-ban-supreme-court.html that make it clear how the abortion-restricting movement is advancing slowly and inexorably in these states.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3710 on: August 26, 2020, 09:42:34 AM »
@OtherJen , I agree with you that in many places in the country, abortion procedures will continue to be available even if Rowe falls. I also agree that Roberts is too smart to let it fall openly and quickly, which would provoke an incredible backlash.

But in many places that are safely controlled by Republicans, women seeking these procedures will have to endure much unnecessary trauma and expense because of the progress conservatives have made over the last 30 years, while Presidents of both parties have occupied the White House. It easy to find pieces like: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/alabama-georgia-abortion-ban-supreme-court.html that make it clear how the abortion-restricting movement is advancing slowly and inexorably in these states.

Many of these laws also create a burden for women who have miscarriages.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3711 on: August 26, 2020, 10:03:51 AM »
If Democrats want to win the 2020 election, then they need to do what they did in 2018 and address the economic concerns of lower-and-middle-class white people instead of just treating them with disdain. They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

Democrats are doing nothing to stop violent protesting right now where people having been rioting for nearly three months straight and destroying billions of dollars worth of property. Protest is important but so is protecting people's businesses and homes. We've gotten to the point now where people are being shot at protests in Wisconsin and nearly nothing is being done about the problem.

This is allowing Trump to present himself as the law-and-order candidate and frightened white people are supporting him because they feel like they have no other option.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3712 on: August 26, 2020, 10:45:18 AM »
If Democrats want to win the 2020 election, then they need to do what they did in 2018 and address the economic concerns of lower-and-middle-class white people instead of just treating them with disdain. They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

Democrats are doing nothing to stop violent protesting right now where people having been rioting for nearly three months straight and destroying billions of dollars worth of property. Protest is important but so is protecting people's businesses and homes. We've gotten to the point now where people are being shot at protests in Wisconsin and nearly nothing is being done about the problem.

This is allowing Trump to present himself as the law-and-order candidate and frightened white people are supporting him because they feel like they have no other option.

If I may substitute the "Democrats" with "liberals", then you may not be properly considering the "practical" and "moral" imperatives of these folks.

Caveat: I'm not formally a "Democrat", nor have any connection to the political party with that name. But I can speak for the "liberal leaning" people in the coasts. This part of the population happens to wield an outsized influence in the Democratic party right now.

These guys are generally not pretentious enough to think of themselves as the "real Americans" while relegating others to the status of "fake Americans". There were as many Yoga Instructors in US as Coal Miners back in 2010, and an average Yoga Instructor was generally no more wealthy than an average Coal Miner, and they are probably impacted more by the COVID crisis. However, by any objective measures, you'll not hear the Yoga Instructors make as much noise as the Coal Miners or posit themselves as the "real Americans".

A large part of these "fake Americans" have started talking schadenfreude after Trump. See, all the typical billionaire-friendly Republican policies generally create wealth for Democratic areas of the country - be it Silicone Valley or Wall Street etc. It benefits the billionaires and the top 10% who primarily reside in these blue states, while hastening the economic hollowing out of the red states. Still, these "fake Americans" support democratic policies because of moral conviction + the hope that the state government's re-distributive policies can even out the results for the less economically fortunate "fake Americans", like the Yoga Instructors I mentioned earlier.

tl;dr - I (and many other "liberal" "fake Americans") am not so sure that there is a whole lot of practical benefits for us arising out of "political wins" for one side or the other for the federal government.

OTOH, if we have to be carefully politically correct when talking about saving the lives of school children in Sandy Hook, or about saving women's rights to self-determination over their body (="clinging to guns and the Bible" in your words), then the moral cost is very high, at least in my view and that of many others I know.

So thanks for explaining the deal, but I am not sure too many "liberals" will take that, so no thanks!!

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3713 on: August 26, 2020, 10:58:47 AM »
If Democrats want to win the 2020 election, then they need to do what they did in 2018 and address the economic concerns of lower-and-middle-class white people instead of just treating them with disdain. They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

Democrats are doing nothing to stop violent protesting right now where people having been rioting for nearly three months straight and destroying billions of dollars worth of property. Protest is important but so is protecting people's businesses and homes. We've gotten to the point now where people are being shot at protests in Wisconsin and nearly nothing is being done about the problem.

This is allowing Trump to present himself as the law-and-order candidate and frightened white people are supporting him because they feel like they have no other option.

If I may substitute the "Democrats" with "liberals", then you may not be properly considering the "practical" and "moral" imperatives of these folks.

Caveat: I'm not formally a "Democrat", nor have any connection to the political party with that name. But I can speak for the "liberal leaning" people in the coasts. This part of the population happens to wield an outsized influence in the Democratic party right now.

These guys are generally not pretentious enough to think of themselves as the "real Americans" while relegating others to the status of "fake Americans". There were as many Yoga Instructors in US as Coal Miners back in 2010, and an average Yoga Instructor was generally no more wealthy than an average Coal Miner, and they are probably impacted more by the COVID crisis. However, by any objective measures, you'll not hear the Yoga Instructors make as much noise as the Coal Miners or posit themselves as the "real Americans".

A large part of these "fake Americans" have started talking schadenfreude after Trump. See, all the typical billionaire-friendly Republican policies generally create wealth for Democratic areas of the country - be it Silicone Valley or Wall Street etc. It benefits the billionaires and the top 10% who primarily reside in these blue states, while hastening the economic hollowing out of the red states. Still, these "fake Americans" support democratic policies because of moral conviction + the hope that the state government's re-distributive policies can even out the results for the less economically fortunate "fake Americans", like the Yoga Instructors I mentioned earlier.

tl;dr - I (and many other "liberal" "fake Americans") am not so sure that there is a whole lot of practical benefits for us arising out of "political wins" for one side or the other for the federal government.

OTOH, if we have to be carefully politically correct when talking about saving the lives of school children in Sandy Hook, or about saving women's rights to self-determination over their body (="clinging to guns and the Bible" in your words), then the moral cost is very high, at least in my view and that of many others I know.

So thanks for explaining the deal, but I am not sure too many "liberals" will take that, so no thanks!!

Well, I mean, Democrats don't need to win the election if they don't want to. A lot of left-wingers apparently like having Trump in power. Judging from their actions alienating the voters they need to win.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3714 on: August 26, 2020, 11:08:29 AM »
I'm with ctuser.  I'm really tired of constantly being told I have to cater to "scared white people" and their feelings and getting called a "liberal snowflake" in return. 

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3715 on: August 26, 2020, 11:29:07 AM »
Well, I mean, Democrats don't need to win the election if they don't want to. A lot of left-wingers apparently like having Trump in power. Judging from their actions alienating the voters they need to win.

You found a "left-winger" somewhere! Where??? I thought they have been extinct in the US for some time!!

But anyway, likewise for the "real americans". If they like Republican policies then all power to them. They should enjoy and relish it while it lasts!

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3716 on: August 26, 2020, 11:30:54 AM »
Well, I mean, Democrats don't need to win the election if they don't want to. A lot of left-wingers apparently like having Trump in power. Judging from their actions alienating the voters they need to win.

You found a "left-winger" somewhere! Where??? I thought they have been extinct in the US for some time!!

But anyway, likewise for the "real americans". If they like Republican policies then all power to them. They should enjoy and relish it while it lasts!

Trump is going to last another four years unless the Democratic Party reaches out to voters they alienated in 2016. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp when it should be blatantly obvious.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3717 on: August 26, 2020, 11:31:25 AM »
WhiteTrashCash is correct in that some of the skeptical Trump voters are swayed by nightly newscasts of riots. Currently, the Democrats have framed the Republican party as being on the wrong side of the Floyd riots and these are the same people that the RNC* is actively courting -- the "Maybe my party is somewhat racist?" Republicans. Witness the diversity parade of nights 1 and 2.

These are voters that the Democrats could use.

It's unclear what Democrats can actually do, though (vs what they can create ads about). Bringing in guns and boots might actually create more votes for Democrats if/when the federal police or soldiers overreact. The Democratic Mayors of those cities have appealed to the protestors, as have the families of the victims.




* Given the lack of a platform from the Republicans, the 2020 RNC is actually the Trump National Convention.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 11:33:14 AM by bacchi »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3718 on: August 26, 2020, 11:46:39 AM »
If Democrats want to win the 2020 election, then they need to do what they did in 2018 and address the economic concerns of lower-and-middle-class white people instead of just treating them with disdain. They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

Democrats are doing nothing to stop violent protesting right now where people having been rioting for nearly three months straight and destroying billions of dollars worth of property. Protest is important but so is protecting people's businesses and homes. We've gotten to the point now where people are being shot at protests in Wisconsin and nearly nothing is being done about the problem.

This is allowing Trump to present himself as the law-and-order candidate and frightened white people are supporting him because they feel like they have no other option.

If I may substitute the "Democrats" with "liberals", then you may not be properly considering the "practical" and "moral" imperatives of these folks.

Caveat: I'm not formally a "Democrat", nor have any connection to the political party with that name. But I can speak for the "liberal leaning" people in the coasts. This part of the population happens to wield an outsized influence in the Democratic party right now.

These guys are generally not pretentious enough to think of themselves as the "real Americans" while relegating others to the status of "fake Americans". There were as many Yoga Instructors in US as Coal Miners back in 2010, and an average Yoga Instructor was generally no more wealthy than an average Coal Miner, and they are probably impacted more by the COVID crisis. However, by any objective measures, you'll not hear the Yoga Instructors make as much noise as the Coal Miners or posit themselves as the "real Americans".

A large part of these "fake Americans" have started talking schadenfreude after Trump. See, all the typical billionaire-friendly Republican policies generally create wealth for Democratic areas of the country - be it Silicone Valley or Wall Street etc. It benefits the billionaires and the top 10% who primarily reside in these blue states, while hastening the economic hollowing out of the red states. Still, these "fake Americans" support democratic policies because of moral conviction + the hope that the state government's re-distributive policies can even out the results for the less economically fortunate "fake Americans", like the Yoga Instructors I mentioned earlier.

tl;dr - I (and many other "liberal" "fake Americans") am not so sure that there is a whole lot of practical benefits for us arising out of "political wins" for one side or the other for the federal government.

OTOH, if we have to be carefully politically correct when talking about saving the lives of school children in Sandy Hook, or about saving women's rights to self-determination over their body (="clinging to guns and the Bible" in your words), then the moral cost is very high, at least in my view and that of many others I know.

So thanks for explaining the deal, but I am not sure too many "liberals" will take that, so no thanks!!

The difference beween coal miners and yoga instructors is that coal miners are joined to a lot of capital. The owners of that capital expect a return. And they've accepted risk in order to gain that return.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3719 on: August 26, 2020, 11:55:44 AM »
Well, I mean, Democrats don't need to win the election if they don't want to. A lot of left-wingers apparently like having Trump in power. Judging from their actions alienating the voters they need to win.

You found a "left-winger" somewhere! Where??? I thought they have been extinct in the US for some time!!

But anyway, likewise for the "real americans". If they like Republican policies then all power to them. They should enjoy and relish it while it lasts!

Trump is going to last another four years unless the Democratic Party reaches out to voters they alienated in 2016. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp when it should be blatantly obvious.

That would be a disaster, I agree!!

But think of the alternatives.

(1) Democrats can pander to the worst elements of the country and may be eke out a win.
e.g. Richard Spencer seems to be supporting Biden now (https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141) - which was rightly repudiated by the Biden camp immediately. I am sure with sufficient overtures, Ann Coulter might also support him, and maybe Democrats can execute their own "Southern Strategy" and win some elections!!
This is clearly a no-go in my opinion, as the cost is moral in nature, and no amount of practical benefits would outweigh that. If Trump wins a second term due to this, so be it in my opinion!

(2) Democrats could also try to chase "hurt feelings" of snowflakes extant everywhere in US by carefully couching their language. 

I am happy to be sensitive to other people's feelings. I am bad at this, so I often find myself apologizing when I cause unwanted offense.

However, my sensitivity takes a bit of a back seat on moral issues - e.g. restricting women's rights over their own body or protecting the Sandy Hook kid's right to live.
So - if someone has practical suggestions of what should be done to make people with less privileged station than I have been, I'd be all ears. However, I either don't hear any practical suggestions, or they amount to "you compromise on moral positions so that some hurt feelings are assuaged".

So - while I'd be happy to stand behind any practical suggestion that does not amount to "you compromise on moral positions so that some hurt feelings are assuaged" - I just haven't heard any!!


WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3720 on: August 26, 2020, 12:10:38 PM »
Well, I mean, Democrats don't need to win the election if they don't want to. A lot of left-wingers apparently like having Trump in power. Judging from their actions alienating the voters they need to win.

You found a "left-winger" somewhere! Where??? I thought they have been extinct in the US for some time!!

But anyway, likewise for the "real americans". If they like Republican policies then all power to them. They should enjoy and relish it while it lasts!

Trump is going to last another four years unless the Democratic Party reaches out to voters they alienated in 2016. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp when it should be blatantly obvious.

That would be a disaster, I agree!!

But think of the alternatives.

(1) Democrats can pander to the worst elements of the country and may be eke out a win.
e.g. Richard Spencer seems to be supporting Biden now (https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141) - which was rightly repudiated by the Biden camp immediately. I am sure with sufficient overtures, Ann Coulter might also support him, and maybe Democrats can execute their own "Southern Strategy" and win some elections!!
This is clearly a no-go in my opinion, as the cost is moral in nature, and no amount of practical benefits would outweigh that. If Trump wins a second term due to this, so be it in my opinion!

(2) Democrats could also try to chase "hurt feelings" of snowflakes extant everywhere in US by carefully couching their language. 

I am happy to be sensitive to other people's feelings. I am bad at this, so I often find myself apologizing when I cause unwanted offense.

However, my sensitivity takes a bit of a back seat on moral issues - e.g. restricting women's rights over their own body or protecting the Sandy Hook kid's right to live.
So - if someone has practical suggestions of what should be done to make people with less privileged station than I have been, I'd be all ears. However, I either don't hear any practical suggestions, or they amount to "you compromise on moral positions so that some hurt feelings are assuaged".

So - while I'd be happy to stand behind any practical suggestion that does not amount to "you compromise on moral positions so that some hurt feelings are assuaged" - I just haven't heard any!!

One solution that MUST NOT be taken is using political violence. I had to distance myself from some people I've known for a long time because they started supporting physically attacking people they perceived to be racist. Physical violence creates support for the opposing side of your argument. That's why the Civil Rights Movement was so successful in the 1960s, because they were acting peacefully and they had violence done to them in response. That horrified White America and led to enough members of Congress switching sides to enact legislation that helped the Civil Rights Movement achieve many of their goals.

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3721 on: August 26, 2020, 12:19:49 PM »
One solution that MUST NOT be taken is using political violence. I had to distance myself from some people I've known for a long time because they started supporting physically attacking people they perceived to be racist. Physical violence creates support for the opposing side of your argument. That's why the Civil Rights Movement was so successful in the 1960s, because they were acting peacefully and they had violence done to them in response. That horrified White America and led to enough members of Congress switching sides to enact legislation that helped the Civil Rights Movement achieve many of their goals.

This I'd wholeheartedly agree with!!

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Please consider, however, that repudiating the "riots" is easier said than done!! Some (much? most? isolated instances? I don't know!) of the violence is false flag operation done by Trump supporters. e.g. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/umbrella-man-associated-white-supremacist-group-george-floyd/index.html.

This is probably the reason you don't see as much of condemnation of the violence associated with the protests from the liberal America. My wife has a boatload of facebook friends who are police (she taught math to a lot of aspiring police candidates at a nearby community college). Her facebook feed represents a different reality on the topic of these riots than what I am aware of (I don't use Facebook).

The "violence" that the red america wants to repudiate, and the "peaceful protests" that the blue america supports do not live in the same reality!! 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 12:37:57 PM by ctuser1 »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3722 on: August 26, 2020, 01:21:30 PM »

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Interesting that this is what you see @WhiteTrashCash - lately the only ones I'd call "thugs" (your term) are white men carrying assault weapons.  In combat you don't worry (much) about large crowds of unarmed civilians.  You worry about the heavily armed militants working together.  I don't worry about protestors, nor do they make me fear for my life or my property.  I am scared of all these armed nutjobs who claim there are there "to keep order" (who's order I wonder) and those that argue loudly against mask mandates, as if we don't have similar laws about wearing pants and shoes.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3723 on: August 26, 2020, 01:29:23 PM »
If Democrats want to win the 2020 election, then they need to do what they did in 2018 and address the economic concerns of lower-and-middle-class white people instead of just treating them with disdain. They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

These are common criticisms of the Democratic party, but where do they come from? Do Democratic politicians really treat lower and middle class white people with disdain*? Or do these people feel rejected and left out by the promotion of diversity and programs that focus on minorities?

Do they demonize religion*? Or do Christians get offended at idea that their religion doesn't take precedent over all the other religions as it used to (and largely still does). After all, the vast majority of Democratic politicians are Christian.

It's no surprise that people of majority groups who are used to preferential treatment get upset when they start to lose that advantage. It's more or less to be expected, but that doesn't make it right.

*Now if you're referring to the media, I'm sure you can find instances of what you're describing but that's hardly representative of the Democratic party.

Slight tangent: I think one of the trigger words for a lot of lower and middle class white people is "white privilege". I would love to go back in time and come up with a better term for it. I've heard so many people scoff at the idea and say "where's my privilege?" and in a way they're right - should we really call it a privilege to not be pulled over on a regular basis or to not be followed around by security guards when you walk into a store? Not to mention "white privilege" often gets used where "wealthy privilege" would be more accurate.

I guess my point with this example is that I do do sympathize with your points in some ways, but I think it's more often a misunderstanding due to terminology and a way of framing issues than it is true disdain for the largest voter demographic.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3724 on: August 26, 2020, 01:32:16 PM »

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Interesting that this is what you see @WhiteTrashCash - lately the only ones I'd call "thugs" (your term) are white men carrying assault weapons.  In combat you don't worry (much) about large crowds of unarmed civilians.  You worry about the heavily armed militants working together.  I don't worry about protestors, nor do they make me fear for my life or my property.  I am scared of all these armed nutjobs who claim there are there "to keep order" (who's order I wonder) and those that argue loudly against mask mandates, as if we don't have similar laws about wearing pants and shoes.

You probably haven't seen the videos of people shooting fireworks (basically mortars) at police officers from close range, beating business owners to bloody pulps for trying to prevent people from looting their shops, setting fire to public buildings, using high-powered lasers to permanently blind police officers, breaking windows on public buildings, etc. Portland, Oregon's downtown has basically been destroyed over the past three months. Last night, I saw footage as rioters purposefully destroyed an entire car dealership in Kenosha, Wisconsin and set fire for dozens of cars. The circumstances are creating a situation where people think they have to take matters into their own hands because the government isn't doing anything to stop the mayhem and then you end up with psychos murdering people in Kenosha on live video. No reasonable person wants any of this to happen.

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3725 on: August 26, 2020, 01:40:27 PM »
Please consider, however, that repudiating the "riots" is easier said than done!! Some (much? most? isolated instances? I don't know!) of the violence is false flag operation done by Trump supporters. e.g. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/umbrella-man-associated-white-supremacist-group-george-floyd/index.html.

I wish this would get more attention. It's not exactly a new or surprising tactic.

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/02/history-united-states-government-infiltration-protests/

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3726 on: August 26, 2020, 03:03:18 PM »

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Interesting that this is what you see @WhiteTrashCash - lately the only ones I'd call "thugs" (your term) are white men carrying assault weapons.  In combat you don't worry (much) about large crowds of unarmed civilians.  You worry about the heavily armed militants working together.  I don't worry about protestors, nor do they make me fear for my life or my property.  I am scared of all these armed nutjobs who claim there are there "to keep order" (who's order I wonder) and those that argue loudly against mask mandates, as if we don't have similar laws about wearing pants and shoes.

You probably haven't seen the videos of people shooting fireworks (basically mortars) at police officers from close range, beating business owners to bloody pulps for trying to prevent people from looting their shops, setting fire to public buildings, using high-powered lasers to permanently blind police officers, breaking windows on public buildings, etc. Portland, Oregon's downtown has basically been destroyed over the past three months. Last night, I saw footage as rioters purposefully destroyed an entire car dealership in Kenosha, Wisconsin and set fire for dozens of cars. The circumstances are creating a situation where people think they have to take matters into their own hands because the government isn't doing anything to stop the mayhem and then you end up with psychos murdering people in Kenosha on live video. No reasonable person wants any of this to happen.

You mean the riots where police ended up arresting over 20 people? In a city run by Democrats the leadership seems to be taking both the demands of peaceful protestors seriously and at the same time putting down rioters? Whereas the GOP is saying what? that the protests are dumb and we'll use violence to put down even peaceful protests? You remember the whole federal police kidnapping peaceful protesters in the streets of Portland?

If you want serious leadership, there is really only one option. Democrats seem to be willing to both put down rioting and take serious steps towards fixing the issues that caused the protests in the first place. GOP only uses violence and view all protestors with contempt. GOP is doing themselves no favors.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3727 on: August 26, 2020, 03:04:00 PM »
It's very unfortunate that many times during these protests, it's far-right leaning groups like the Boogaloo Boys causing damage and injury in order to carry out their own agenda and co-opt peaceful protests in order to turn them violent. The shooting in Wisconsin was carried out by a 17-year old white kid from Illinois. He was allowed to roam the streets with an AR-15 without being questioned. I'm not denying that much of that other stuff has happened, but let's be more honest about all the people that bear responsibility for what's happening instead of blaming it entirely on "protesters"

Abe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3728 on: August 26, 2020, 03:54:18 PM »
It's very unfortunate that many times during these protests, it's far-right leaning groups like the Boogaloo Boys causing damage and injury in order to carry out their own agenda and co-opt peaceful protests in order to turn them violent. The shooting in Wisconsin was carried out by a 17-year old white kid from Illinois. He was allowed to roam the streets with an AR-15 without being questioned. I'm not denying that much of that other stuff has happened, but let's be more honest about all the people that bear responsibility for what's happening instead of blaming it entirely on "protesters"

Second this statement. Basically some nutbag loser showed up to prove what a big boy he is and shoot people because he drowned his mind in YouTube conspiracies. I expect more of the same coming up to and after the elections, so will be stockpiling food for a week or so to ride out the riots or mass shootings. Blaming civilian protestors for uncontrolled rioting (Which should be the police’s job - where'd they go? ) is not helpful. I think we need more surveillance cameras and police presence to interdict rioters trying to burn buildings, etc. They should be charged with felonies. Peaceful protesting is a 1st amendment right, so should not be limited. It’s the government’s job to discriminate between the two, encourage the latter and prevent the former.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 04:03:33 PM by Abe »

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3729 on: August 26, 2020, 04:11:01 PM »
Apparently, the Kenosha shooter was in the front row of a Trump rally in Des Moines this past January.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3730 on: August 26, 2020, 04:36:13 PM »
... Meanwhile in Tennessee, the gov just signed a bill that could have people who camp out on state grounds illegally losing their right to vote or own firearms. This bill was crafted in direct response to the recent protests and concurrent riots. Property damage is more important than voting rights, and a good targeted way to disenfranchise to boot!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/22/tennessee-law-protesters-could-lose-right-vote-camping-on-state-land/3420661001/

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3731 on: August 26, 2020, 04:56:49 PM »
I'm with ctuser.  I'm really tired of constantly being told I have to cater to "scared white people" and their feelings and getting called a "liberal snowflake" in return.

Seconded. I'm really sick of catering to "scared white people." Our entire country's damn history is "catering to scared white people." Good lord, enough already.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3732 on: August 26, 2020, 04:59:03 PM »
It's very unfortunate that many times during these protests, it's far-right leaning groups like the Boogaloo Boys causing damage and injury in order to carry out their own agenda and co-opt peaceful protests in order to turn them violent. The shooting in Wisconsin was carried out by a 17-year old white kid from Illinois. He was allowed to roam the streets with an AR-15 without being questioned. I'm not denying that much of that other stuff has happened, but let's be more honest about all the people that bear responsibility for what's happening instead of blaming it entirely on "protesters"

Second this statement. Basically some nutbag loser showed up to prove what a big boy he is and shoot people because he drowned his mind in YouTube conspiracies. I expect more of the same coming up to and after the elections, so will be stockpiling food for a week or so to ride out the riots or mass shootings. Blaming civilian protestors for uncontrolled rioting (Which should be the police’s job - where'd they go? ) is not helpful. I think we need more surveillance cameras and police presence to interdict rioters trying to burn buildings, etc. They should be charged with felonies. Peaceful protesting is a 1st amendment right, so should not be limited. It’s the government’s job to discriminate between the two, encourage the latter and prevent the former.

Thirded. I refuse to let my constitutional rights be infringed upon by some brainwashed kid with an assault rifle and a not-yet-fully-developed frontal lobe.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3733 on: August 26, 2020, 05:00:10 PM »

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Interesting that this is what you see @WhiteTrashCash - lately the only ones I'd call "thugs" (your term) are white men carrying assault weapons.  In combat you don't worry (much) about large crowds of unarmed civilians.  You worry about the heavily armed militants working together.  I don't worry about protestors, nor do they make me fear for my life or my property.  I am scared of all these armed nutjobs who claim there are there "to keep order" (who's order I wonder) and those that argue loudly against mask mandates, as if we don't have similar laws about wearing pants and shoes.

You probably haven't seen the videos of people shooting fireworks (basically mortars) at police officers from close range, beating business owners to bloody pulps for trying to prevent people from looting their shops, setting fire to public buildings, using high-powered lasers to permanently blind police officers, breaking windows on public buildings, etc. Portland, Oregon's downtown has basically been destroyed over the past three months. Last night, I saw footage as rioters purposefully destroyed an entire car dealership in Kenosha, Wisconsin and set fire for dozens of cars. The circumstances are creating a situation where people think they have to take matters into their own hands because the government isn't doing anything to stop the mayhem and then you end up with psychos murdering people in Kenosha on live video. No reasonable person wants any of this to happen.

You’ve clearly never witnessed an actual mortar going off. There aren’t a lot of witnesses left. Just correcting you on this ridiculous claim. They are mortar style fireworks, not actual mortars.

gentmach

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3734 on: August 26, 2020, 05:02:18 PM »

With what's going on in the country right now, White Americans are seeing clips on the news (or various tube sites if they oppose the corporate centralization of media) and all they are seeing are violent thugs destroying property and hurting people. Unless the messaging is changed, this is going to support unintended perceptions. I know the idea of "smash the 'fash" is appealing to a lot of people but it will not get the results they want, especially when completely innocent people are caught in the crossfire on the evening news.

Interesting that this is what you see @WhiteTrashCash - lately the only ones I'd call "thugs" (your term) are white men carrying assault weapons.  In combat you don't worry (much) about large crowds of unarmed civilians.  You worry about the heavily armed militants working together.  I don't worry about protestors, nor do they make me fear for my life or my property.  I am scared of all these armed nutjobs who claim there are there "to keep order" (who's order I wonder) and those that argue loudly against mask mandates, as if we don't have similar laws about wearing pants and shoes.

You probably haven't seen the videos of people shooting fireworks (basically mortars) at police officers from close range, beating business owners to bloody pulps for trying to prevent people from looting their shops, setting fire to public buildings, using high-powered lasers to permanently blind police officers, breaking windows on public buildings, etc. Portland, Oregon's downtown has basically been destroyed over the past three months. Last night, I saw footage as rioters purposefully destroyed an entire car dealership in Kenosha, Wisconsin and set fire for dozens of cars. The circumstances are creating a situation where people think they have to take matters into their own hands because the government isn't doing anything to stop the mayhem and then you end up with psychos murdering people in Kenosha on live video. No reasonable person wants any of this to happen.

They have seen it. I posted links. Just accept the motto of "War is Peace."

js82

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3735 on: August 26, 2020, 05:08:34 PM »
They also need to stop demonizing people for having religious beliefs ("clinging to guns and the Bible").

Claiming that Democrats are the party that's intolerant of religious beliefs outside their own "standard" is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3736 on: August 26, 2020, 05:20:04 PM »
... Meanwhile in Tennessee, the gov just signed a bill that could have people who camp out on state grounds illegally losing their right to vote or own firearms. This bill was crafted in direct response to the recent protests and concurrent riots. Property damage is more important than voting rights, and a good targeted way to disenfranchise to boot!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/22/tennessee-law-protesters-could-lose-right-vote-camping-on-state-land/3420661001/

Also not a new tactic. Feels very reminiscent of the criminalization and smear campaign of marijuana as a way to go after hippes/war protesters/black communities all at the same time.

ministashy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3737 on: August 27, 2020, 12:21:14 AM »
It often makes me wonder how many of the folks who hold up the Civil Rights movement as a shining example of what a protest should be, would be the same folks who, if they had been adults back in the 50's, would have been sitting on the sideline tut-tutting about how those awful hippies/black people shouldn't be causing trouble by trying to sit at lunch counters and whatnot, and that anyone beaten by the police obviously deserved it for not obeying 'the law'.  Obviously the right to assemble doesn't count if they're blocking bridges and roads!  They should have just petitioned their politicians peacefully for solutions instead!

But then, it's always different 'this time'.  Rationalization is a powerful thing.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3738 on: August 27, 2020, 04:10:34 AM »
It often makes me wonder how many of the folks who hold up the Civil Rights movement as a shining example of what a protest should be, would be the same folks who, if they had been adults back in the 50's, would have been sitting on the sideline tut-tutting about how those awful hippies/black people shouldn't be causing trouble by trying to sit at lunch counters and whatnot, and that anyone beaten by the police obviously deserved it for not obeying 'the law'.  Obviously the right to assemble doesn't count if they're blocking bridges and roads!  They should have just petitioned their politicians peacefully for solutions instead!

But then, it's always different 'this time'.  Rationalization is a powerful thing.

This.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3739 on: August 27, 2020, 05:09:34 AM »
More Dem unrest, apparantly. Oh wait.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-teen-charged-kenosha-034206711.html

Don't worry, Tucker will certainly condemn this murderer. Here is what he said in reference to the killing "decided to maintain order when no one else would.” What in the actual fuck?

Must be that law and order Trump is apparently known for. Or "war is peace?" A 17 year old Trump supporting white kid carrying an assault rifle and opening fire might as well be the theme for the Trump party and all if it's apologist. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 05:29:55 AM by MasterStache »

gentmach

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3740 on: August 27, 2020, 06:12:58 AM »
More Dem unrest, apparantly. Oh wait.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-teen-charged-kenosha-034206711.html

Don't worry, Tucker will certainly condemn this murderer. Here is what he said in reference to the killing "decided to maintain order when no one else would.” What in the actual fuck?

Must be that law and order Trump is apparently known for. Or "war is peace?" A 17 year old Trump supporting white kid carrying an assault rifle and opening fire might as well be the theme for the Trump party and all if it's apologist.

Would it change things if he was attempting to stop a looter? Everyone here claims the protests are peaceful except for "a few instigators." A few problematic people.

The timeline seems to be:
He confronted the looter.
They chased after him.
He shot one in the head.
Called the police to turn himself in.
More people chased after him.
He trips.
Second guy attempts to kick him. He gets shot.
Third guy attacks with a skateboard and gets shot.
The fourth guy pretends to surrender only to go for a gun. Gets his elbow blown apart for his asshattery. He is still gripping the gun.

I do not have the video of the shooter attempting to turn himself in to the police.

Sources.
https://mega.nz/file/wwJi1ABA#7wul-mk-1yhEI0jrdVZwk3rfOxyMy4jNK0YNz__QqwQ
https://mega.nz/file/gsgT0bjI#5XBrqvdhpfm7f_4GJS_W8c995g9WpTy-7N6H3GsJjaI

This is what community policing will actually look like. People taking the situation into their own hands when the social workers fail.

MOD EDIT: Removed graphic images. Please link to them with a warning in case someone does not wish to see them. Cheers!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 09:28:11 AM by arebelspy »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3741 on: August 27, 2020, 06:34:18 AM »
Killing a looter is not the correct sanction.

Extra judicial killing by a minor is not how I want to order society.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3742 on: August 27, 2020, 06:41:21 AM »
More Dem unrest, apparantly. Oh wait.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-teen-charged-kenosha-034206711.html

Don't worry, Tucker will certainly condemn this murderer. Here is what he said in reference to the killing "decided to maintain order when no one else would.” What in the actual fuck?

Must be that law and order Trump is apparently known for. Or "war is peace?" A 17 year old Trump supporting white kid carrying an assault rifle and opening fire might as well be the theme for the Trump party and all if it's apologist.

Would it change things if he was attempting to stop a looter? Everyone here claims the protests are peaceful except for "a few instigators." A few problematic people.

The timeline seems to be:
He confronted the looter.
They chased after him.
He shot one in the head.
Called the police to turn himself in.
More people chased after him.
He trips.
Second guy attempts to kick him. He gets shot.
Third guy attacks with a skateboard and gets shot.
The fourth guy pretends to surrender only to go for a gun. Gets his elbow blown apart for his asshattery. He is still gripping the gun.

I do not have the video of the shooter attempting to turn himself in to the police.

Sources.
https://mega.nz/file/wwJi1ABA#7wul-mk-1yhEI0jrdVZwk3rfOxyMy4jNK0YNz__QqwQ
https://mega.nz/file/gsgT0bjI#5XBrqvdhpfm7f_4GJS_W8c995g9WpTy-7N6H3GsJjaI

This is what community policing will actually look like. People taking the situation into their own hands when the social workers fail.

1) He was illegally open carrying
2) He was out past curfew.

So, this thug was already out committing crimes before any of this happened. This is not community policing, this is criminal activity. Followed by murder. If he had been at home in Illinois instead of out committing crimes, none of this would have happened.

cliffhanger

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3743 on: August 27, 2020, 06:43:32 AM »
Then the Governor should have deployed the National Guard. It's crazy to me that several of these Governors haven't when protests have turned into riots. Seems to me like they hate Trump so much they're willing to let their cities burn.

Two things can be true at once: This kid had no business being there. Every shot he took was in self defense.

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3744 on: August 27, 2020, 06:45:58 AM »
More Dem unrest, apparantly. Oh wait.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-teen-charged-kenosha-034206711.html

Don't worry, Tucker will certainly condemn this murderer. Here is what he said in reference to the killing "decided to maintain order when no one else would.” What in the actual fuck?

Must be that law and order Trump is apparently known for. Or "war is peace?" A 17 year old Trump supporting white kid carrying an assault rifle and opening fire might as well be the theme for the Trump party and all if it's apologist.

Would it change things if he was attempting to stop a looter?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

See also, @Kris post above.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3745 on: August 27, 2020, 06:50:43 AM »
I vote democratic, and I fully believe in the right to assemble and peaceful protest. I also support law enforcement shutting down arson and looting. I think what's happening is what video wise people are seeing is different depending on where you are politically. So I have been seeing videos of police overreach, police cars driving into protestors, police pushing down an elderly man, excessive use of tear and pepper has bullets. And conservatives are watching videos that look like the us has turned into a hellscape.  I know someone who lives in Portland and he shared someone's post of pics and videos of Portland, which showed the occupied area and places adjacent to it where it was life as normal, not at all what the media would film or portray. Media on both sides try to find the most extreme exciting things to film, so gives an outsized view that is distorted. Anyways bottom i don't think liberals are saying we think violence is "good". We have no problem having looters arsonists caught and locked up. Hell similar things happen every time in many cities win or lose championships, people burning, turning over cars, property damage. I don't see people decrying football or baseketball teams because of this.  And I think what alot of more liberal minded people think is that violence done by law enforcement and paramilitary, especially when it is done to suppress constitutionally grants rights like right to assembly, is a far more serious abuse of power.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 07:02:07 AM by partgypsy »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3746 on: August 27, 2020, 06:59:00 AM »
I think one of the problems that is making it so hard to get good information about anything going on right now is the fact that all mainstream news reporting in the USA is owned and operated by six corporations, so people on all sides of the political spectrum don't know if they are getting the truth or corporate talking points.

cliffhanger

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3747 on: August 27, 2020, 06:59:59 AM »
I vote democratic, and I fully believe in the right to assemble and peaceful protest. I also support law enforcement shutting down arson and looting. I think what's happening is what video wise people are seeing is different depending on where you are politically. So I have been seeing videos of police overreach, police cars driving into protestors, police pushing down an elderly man, excessive use of tear and pepper has bullets. And conservatives are watching videos that look like the us has turned into a hellscape.  I know someone who lives in Portland and he shared someone's post of pics and videos of Portland, which showed the occupied area and places adjacent to it where it was life as normal, not at all what the media would film or portray. Media on both sides try to find the most extreme exciting things to film, so gives an outsized view that is distorted.

I don't disagree with you, and I'm coming from the other side of the aisle. It's certainly disappointing to see media doing this non-stop. Sometimes I wonder if they are intentionally stirring up division, rather than just displaying their own bias. Amazing how we all watch the exact same videos, but come to completely different conclusions.

caracarn

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3748 on: August 27, 2020, 07:06:17 AM »
So I understand things can swing a lot on two months, and I have been waiting for the "point of no return" when there just is not enough time for Trump to turn the bullshit wagon around enough to gather enough marginal voters to win and I am starting to think the actions of the last week, RNC convention apart, may tip things there.

I agree wholeheartedly that the base will never be swayed and I am comfortable in the fact that the base is not enough.  Trump's margin of victory in several states was so small that he only needs to lose (or Biden needs to gain, whichever way you prefer to look) less than 100,000 voters.  I feel he's lost far more than that as white women, college educated voters and blacks who supported him have been peeling off in polling for months.  My analysis of this week's actions are pointed at is he going to win any voters.  The Sunday announcement of convalescent plasma (or plosma as the pres says), a 100 year old therapy being touted as something new and then oversold on efficacy played poorly.  When challenged Dr. Hahn has to backpedal or risk losing whatever credibility as a medical professional he had left and admit there are no facts about how much this will help.  Second, the CDC removing testing for those who have come into contact, I believe, will be the nail in the coffin for people on the fence as this plays out over the next few weeks, leaving Trump no time to do anything about it.  It has been one of the only consistent points during COVID that the only way to slow the spread is through identification and isolation of spreaders, which can only happen with testing.  Instead of having an adult conversation with the country and admitting that we still struggle to have enough testing, Trump advised the CDC to change guidance to make it appear we need less testing when science clearly points to the fact that is wrong.  Since the virus does not respond to spin, it will do what it does, and this decreased testing will do what we saw in the spring when we had fewer tests, and cause more infections especially now that schools are starting up.  At this point, those states that act responsibly and refuse to bury their head in the sand like Florida and Georgia did earlier only to find, again, the virus does not care what you thing, will be forced to tell kids in a class with a positive tested student to stay home for two weeks because we are no longer allowed to test you.  All the disruption and chaos that irritates working parents will come into play and more voters will move away as their daily impact will continue to be negative by the party in power.  So this in no way is going to enlarge Trump's voting pool.  While I hate the fact that lives are in danger, to use our leaders words "it is what it is" and I cannot change the CDC policy, so more people will get sick and the main thing contributing to Trump losing this election will get worse before November because his administration slowed testing again to March/April levels and history will repeat itself as viruses are pretty predictable that way, and then for those who get sick and do not see the miracle of plasma saving them that promise goes up in smoke too.

tl:dr;  Trump keeps taking actions what will cause problems and  I feel does nothing to increase those who will vote for him.  This is good for those of us who want him out though it comes at a terrible cost.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3749 on: August 27, 2020, 07:06:52 AM »
I think one of the problems that is making it so hard to get good information about anything going on right now is the fact that all mainstream news reporting in the USA is owned and operated by six corporations, so people on all sides of the political spectrum don't know if they are getting the truth or corporate talking points.

I wonder, is this substantially different from decades past?  IIRC from my high school civics class, Hearst owned several dozen large newspapers which in turn were the owners of many local papers, the result being that a large swath of the population got its print news from just one company (Hearst Communications).  Prior to the 1990s and emergence of Fox and CNN there really were just three television news corps (ABC, NBC and CBS).

Or to rephrase the question: what's changed, besides the methods that we consume news?  Is this all the result of micro-targeting, or are there other factor(s) at work to make this different?  Or is it really just another version of the same thing?