Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297420 times)

Lews Therin

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3650 on: August 23, 2020, 09:47:12 PM »
I doubt that people who just want to blow everything up is a majority of the electorate. Or even that big of a segment.

But what if 40% is democrat no matter what, and 40% is republican no matter what... then you are playing with just tiny portions of the electorate.

But bonus sadness fun, 10% doesn't vote.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3651 on: August 24, 2020, 03:54:51 AM »
I doubt that people who just want to blow everything up is a majority of the electorate. Or even that big of a segment.

But what if 40% is democrat no matter what, and 40% is republican no matter what... then you are playing with just tiny portions of the electorate.

But bonus sadness fun, 10% doesn't vote.

And then there is the elecoral college.

Fun Fact: Most presidents since WWII (or longer) have been decided by less than 15% of the voters. All other votes were lost.
In multiple-party governments that number tends to be above 30%. And guess what? Policies benefit more people there too! What a strange coincidence...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3652 on: August 24, 2020, 05:41:50 AM »
I doubt that people who just want to blow everything up is a majority of the electorate. Or even that big of a segment.

Harder to quantify the number of people who “just want to blow everything up”, but Trump has never Had the support of a majority of the electorate. He lost the popular vote, has struggled to ever start above 42% approval and those that “strongly support” him have stayed around 30%

His only victory was defined by a wide swath of independents who couldn’t bring themselves to view for HRC and offered him just tepid support. There has never been another president who has had such unfavorable polling for his entire term.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3653 on: August 24, 2020, 06:38:39 AM »
I doubt that people who just want to blow everything up is a majority of the electorate. Or even that big of a segment.

If you describe these people as "people who don't see the federal government doing anything for them, but can be persuaded it is doing something for the wrong people", how much larger does the circle get?

Because that's basically the Reagan coalition.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3654 on: August 24, 2020, 08:45:28 AM »
I doubt that people who just want to blow everything up is a majority of the electorate. Or even that big of a segment.

If you describe these people as "people who don't see the federal government doing anything for them, but can be persuaded it is doing something for the wrong people", how much larger does the circle get?

Because that's basically the Reagan coalition.

which is... what... just 25-38% of the electorate?*

A truism in American politics is that a minority of the population considers themselves to be Republican, just as a minority considers themselves to be Democrats.

*in 2020 Gallop found that 25% of eligible voters described themselves as "Republican", while 38% descriibed themselves as "Republican or Republican-leaning"

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3655 on: August 24, 2020, 09:35:54 AM »
"Highlighting what’s wrong with him is futile; his supporters didn’t elect him because they mistook him for a competent administrator or a decent man. They’re angry, not stupid.  Trump is an agent of disruption — indeed, of revenge."

https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
Anger often results in very poor decision making. Knowing why one voted for Trump does not mean the reasoning itself isn’t stupid. Revenge sure is stupid. I mean we aren’t talking about letting your dog shit in the neighbors yard. We are talking about electing an incompetent moron who tells people to inject bleach and hates brown skin people so much he likes to lock their kids in cages. How many Covid deaths are we up to? That revenge is working out real well.

To a lot of Trump's supporters, it IS working out well.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-57-republicans-176-000-234000269.html

Fireball

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3656 on: August 24, 2020, 09:49:51 AM »
"Highlighting what’s wrong with him is futile; his supporters didn’t elect him because they mistook him for a competent administrator or a decent man. They’re angry, not stupid.  Trump is an agent of disruption — indeed, of revenge."

https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
Anger often results in very poor decision making. Knowing why one voted for Trump does not mean the reasoning itself isn’t stupid. Revenge sure is stupid. I mean we aren’t talking about letting your dog shit in the neighbors yard. We are talking about electing an incompetent moron who tells people to inject bleach and hates brown skin people so much he likes to lock their kids in cages. How many Covid deaths are we up to? That revenge is working out real well.

To a lot of Trump's supporters, it IS working out well.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-57-republicans-176-000-234000269.html

Considering about 90% of Republicans think Trump is the bee's knees, I'm a little shocked that number is so low. We'll hit 200,000 in a month's time. Would be interesting to see if that changes anything with this polling.   

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3657 on: August 24, 2020, 09:58:18 AM »
"Highlighting what’s wrong with him is futile; his supporters didn’t elect him because they mistook him for a competent administrator or a decent man. They’re angry, not stupid.  Trump is an agent of disruption — indeed, of revenge."

https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
Anger often results in very poor decision making. Knowing why one voted for Trump does not mean the reasoning itself isn’t stupid. Revenge sure is stupid. I mean we aren’t talking about letting your dog shit in the neighbors yard. We are talking about electing an incompetent moron who tells people to inject bleach and hates brown skin people so much he likes to lock their kids in cages. How many Covid deaths are we up to? That revenge is working out real well.

To a lot of Trump's supporters, it IS working out well.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-57-republicans-176-000-234000269.html

Well, it was happy given the precautions taken.  Given the precautions taken I'm happy too.  It could have been much worse.

Of course I'm not happy about the precautions taken, it hurts to see our southern neighbours in so much hurt.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3658 on: August 24, 2020, 01:09:15 PM »
"Highlighting what’s wrong with him is futile; his supporters didn’t elect him because they mistook him for a competent administrator or a decent man. They’re angry, not stupid.  Trump is an agent of disruption — indeed, of revenge."

https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
Anger often results in very poor decision making. Knowing why one voted for Trump does not mean the reasoning itself isn’t stupid. Revenge sure is stupid. I mean we aren’t talking about letting your dog shit in the neighbors yard. We are talking about electing an incompetent moron who tells people to inject bleach and hates brown skin people so much he likes to lock their kids in cages. How many Covid deaths are we up to? That revenge is working out real well.

To a lot of Trump's supporters, it IS working out well.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-57-republicans-176-000-234000269.html

Well, it was happy given the precautions taken.  Given the precautions taken I'm happy too.  It could have been much worse.

Of course I'm not happy about the precautions taken, it hurts to see our southern neighbours in so much hurt.
I wouldn't confuse happy with acceptable. They are accepting of it so long as their Messiah remains in charge. They probably see it more as just simply civilian collateral damage. Stupid doesn't really begin to describe it.

Now if we are to believe the article, 1,000,000 people could die but that would be acceptable because you know, Trump offers false promises of bringing back blue collar jobs that have been disappearing for 40 years. In fact as a proportion of total jobs, manufacturing has been shrinking since 1950 (70 years ago). Hell, maybe Dems should run on a platform of bringing back horse and buggy? Make the Model T great again?

The article itself was bullshit. I would agree that Trump appealed to more of the blue collar class. But we've had almost 4 years for Trump to prove he could being back these jobs. His trade deals haven't panned out. Inequality has actually gotten worse in the past 3 years. The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has systematically rolled back workers’ rights. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is simply a regressive tax cut. It's just easier to call it trickle down, which apparently Republicans think might one day actually work. Trump might have the upper hand in his appeal to these voters, but clearly he doesn't give a shit about them. He doesn't even pretend to care. I'm not sure what else you would label someone who continues to vote against their own self interest. Because that sure seems stupid to me.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 01:31:57 PM by MasterStache »

Abe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3659 on: August 24, 2020, 02:12:57 PM »
They're not stupid, they're "alternatively intelligent". They're playing the long game, and the bodies can pile up as long as they aren't fetuses. Because abortion.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3660 on: August 24, 2020, 02:25:24 PM »
"Highlighting what’s wrong with him is futile; his supporters didn’t elect him because they mistook him for a competent administrator or a decent man. They’re angry, not stupid.  Trump is an agent of disruption — indeed, of revenge."

https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
Anger often results in very poor decision making. Knowing why one voted for Trump does not mean the reasoning itself isn’t stupid. Revenge sure is stupid. I mean we aren’t talking about letting your dog shit in the neighbors yard. We are talking about electing an incompetent moron who tells people to inject bleach and hates brown skin people so much he likes to lock their kids in cages. How many Covid deaths are we up to? That revenge is working out real well.

To a lot of Trump's supporters, it IS working out well.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-57-republicans-176-000-234000269.html

Well, it was happy given the precautions taken.  Given the precautions taken I'm happy too.  It could have been much worse.

Of course I'm not happy about the precautions taken, it hurts to see our southern neighbours in so much hurt.
I wouldn't confuse happy with acceptable. They are accepting of it so long as their Messiah remains in charge. They probably see it more as just simply civilian collateral damage. Stupid doesn't really begin to describe it.

Now if we are to believe the article, 1,000,000 people could die but that would be acceptable because you know, Trump offers false promises of bringing back blue collar jobs that have been disappearing for 40 years. In fact as a proportion of total jobs, manufacturing has been shrinking since 1950 (70 years ago). Hell, maybe Dems should run on a platform of bringing back horse and buggy? Make the Model T great again?

The article itself was bullshit. I would agree that Trump appealed to more of the blue collar class. But we've had almost 4 years for Trump to prove he could being back these jobs. His trade deals haven't panned out. Inequality has actually gotten worse in the past 3 years. The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has systematically rolled back workers’ rights. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is simply a regressive tax cut. It's just easier to call it trickle down, which apparently Republicans think might one day actually work. Trump might have the upper hand in his appeal to these voters, but clearly he doesn't give a shit about them. He doesn't even pretend to care. I'm not sure what else you would label someone who continues to vote against their own self interest. Because that sure seems stupid to me.

Not arguing with you on any of that.

We just got a new Conservative Party leader whose platform this time around was a lot more to the right compared to the last leadership convention.  It will be "interesting" to see where he goes.

Interesting as in "may you live in interesting times". We have a minority government at the moment, which means it is election time any time the government loses a vote of confidence.  New budget this fall is an automatic vote of confidence.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 08:42:13 AM by RetiredAt63 »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3661 on: August 24, 2020, 02:56:21 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3662 on: August 24, 2020, 03:31:46 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   The conservatives are all the way to the right by Canadian standards.    In fact, they did what you suggested back in the early 2000's and combined the "Progress Conservative" party with the Reform party.   ("Progressive conservative?   What does that mean?"  I used to ask)    We then had 10 years with them in charge while the liberals tried to find a leader.

The (currently in power) liberals are mostly center, but keep moving left to try and pick up share from the New Democratic Party.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3663 on: August 24, 2020, 03:34:37 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

They already own the right.  All the racists and anti-abortionists and misogynists and climate change deniers and creationists and  "God forbid we base policy on science people " hang out there, plus the not so extreme social conservatives.  Financial conservatism, not so much.  That leaves the middle ground for the Liberals (Americans would consider them left),  the NDP (New Democratic Party) which is left wing for us and extremely left wing to Americans, plus the Greens, who are in a leadership race at the moment and possibly our most fiscally conservative party.  Plus the Bloc Quebecois, who are a federal separatist party (yes I know that sounds like an oxymoron) who only run candidates in Quebec, obviously.  Plus all sorts of fringe parties whose candidates all lose their deposits, they get so few votes.  Wikipedia lists 20 total, but I think Maxime Bernier's party is history.  Some are one issue Conservative but get nowhere, just like the Marxist-leninist party gets nowhere.  We do appreciate the Rhinocerus Party.

All this means elections are interesting.

jambongris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3664 on: August 24, 2020, 05:08:58 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

They already own the right.  All the racists and anti-abortionists and misogynists and climate change deniers and creationists and  "God forbid we base policy on science people " hang out there, plus the not so extreme social conservatives.  Financial conservatism, not so much.  That leaves the middle ground for the Liberals (Americans would consider them left),  the NDP (New Democratic Party) which is left wing for us and extremely left wing to Americans, plus the Greens, who are in a leadership race at the moment and possibly our most fiscally conservative party.  Plus the Bloc Quebecois, who are a federal separatist party (yes I know that sounds like an oxymoron) who only run candidates in Quebec, obviously.  Plus all sorts of fringe parties whose candidates all lose their deposits, they get so few votes.  Wikipedia lists 20 total, but I think Maxime Bernier's party is history.  Some are one issue Conservative but get nowhere, just like the Marxist-leninist party gets nowhere.  We do appreciate the Rhinocerus Party.

All this means elections are interesting.
For anyone curious about the Rhinoceros Party of Canada:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party

Quote
Providing higher education by building taller schools
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 05:10:52 PM by jambongris »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3665 on: August 24, 2020, 05:28:45 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3666 on: August 24, 2020, 05:45:55 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P
I thought they wanted to be left out...

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3667 on: August 24, 2020, 06:12:49 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P
I thought they wanted to be left out...

Oops.   You'd think I live in Alberta or something.  ;-)

I can't believe I forgot the Bloc Quebecois.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3668 on: August 24, 2020, 06:41:43 PM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P
I thought they wanted to be left out...

Oops.   You'd think I live in Alberta or something.  ;-)

I can't believe I forgot the Bloc Quebecois.

I'm sure both the Liberals and Conservatives would like to forget them too.  All those Quebec seats "wasted".  ;-)

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3669 on: August 24, 2020, 09:00:42 PM »
I learned about the Saskatchewan Party as well last year when I toured the Parliament building in Regina. State specific parties aren't really in the US either. Though I guess the 2 state parties can often differ quite a bit from the federal party leadership.

Stashasaurus

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3670 on: August 24, 2020, 10:12:19 PM »
The Saskatchewan Party really is the love child of the the provincial Liberal party and the Progressive Conservatives in the early 90's. Both parties had been crushed by the NDP and were looking for anything to get themselves going again. So we kinda have a three party system, two of the parties are just lumped together right now.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3671 on: August 24, 2020, 10:24:08 PM »
Apparently the GOP has given up on even having a platform and is simply supporting Trump's America First policy.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3672 on: August 24, 2020, 10:40:41 PM »
Apparently the GOP has given up on even having a platform and is simply supporting Trump's America First policy.

For a party that really needs a re-boot, it's incredibly 'SAD' that they are falling back on their tropes and insular base which has been shrinking since losing the last popular vote.  Why no one has been able to stand up to Trump, while other countries co-opt him with a flicker of the eyelids (Putin, Kim Jong-un, Bolsonaro, Duterte, etc.), is beyond me.  He could use a sounding board a whole lot more than an echo chamber at this point.  Many of his own party and advisors are clearly aware of this.  All that are left are the delusional, conspiracy crazed, and coat-tail riding unqualified hopefuls.  Unless your lips are on his orange behind, you are persona-non-grata.  I imagine folks like Tillerson are advising anyone who will listen to vote against Trump and the Republican party may have a whole lot more to lose than just this election if they remain all-in on supporting Trump.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3673 on: August 24, 2020, 10:51:53 PM »
Apparently the GOP has given up on even having a platform and is simply supporting Trump's America First policy.

For a party that really needs a re-boot, it's incredibly 'SAD' that they are falling back on their tropes and insular base which has been shrinking since losing the last popular vote.  Why no one has been able to stand up to Trump, while other countries co-opt him with a flicker of the eyelids (Putin, Kim Jong-un, Bolsonaro, Duterte, etc.), is beyond me.  He could use a sounding board a whole lot more than an echo chamber at this point.  Many of his own party and advisors are clearly aware of this.  All that are left are the delusional, conspiracy crazed, and coat-tail riding unqualified hopefuls.  Unless your lips are on his orange behind, you are persona-non-grata.  I imagine folks like Tillerson are advising anyone who will listen to vote against Trump and the Republican party may have a whole lot more to lose than just this election if they remain all-in on supporting Trump.

The GOP has won exactly 1 popular vote in the past 30 years yet has held office almost half that time. They've had a death grip on power simply because of the constitution writers' poor foresight with the electoral college and Senate apportionment. (And by extension the complete uselessness of the State's Convention clause to remedy the constitution)

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3674 on: August 24, 2020, 11:06:33 PM »
Apparently the GOP has given up on even having a platform and is simply supporting Trump's America First policy.

For a party that really needs a re-boot, it's incredibly 'SAD' that they are falling back on their tropes and insular base which has been shrinking since losing the last popular vote.  Why no one has been able to stand up to Trump, while other countries co-opt him with a flicker of the eyelids (Putin, Kim Jong-un, Bolsonaro, Duterte, etc.), is beyond me.  He could use a sounding board a whole lot more than an echo chamber at this point.  Many of his own party and advisors are clearly aware of this.  All that are left are the delusional, conspiracy crazed, and coat-tail riding unqualified hopefuls.  Unless your lips are on his orange behind, you are persona-non-grata.  I imagine folks like Tillerson are advising anyone who will listen to vote against Trump and the Republican party may have a whole lot more to lose than just this election if they remain all-in on supporting Trump.

The GOP has won exactly 1 popular vote in the past 30 years yet has held office almost half that time. They've had a death grip on power simply because of the constitution writers' poor foresight with the electoral college and Senate apportionment. (And by extension the complete uselessness of the State's Convention clause to remedy the constitution)

And honestly, as much as I was 'uncomfortable' during the Reagan and Bush Presidencies, I never felt like I do now.  I disagreed with voodoo economics and invading Iraq, but I didn't feel like the US would actually fail during their time as President.  They seemed to try to offer a reasonable alternative to what Democrats wanted.  But this time around, Trump is enthusiastically planting false narratives and lending credence to conspiracy theories - this isn't just dirty politics anymore.  Four more years of Trump is unimaginable, unless he actually hews back toward a vision that could save us from the divisions that are deepening and making the US look more and more like an authoritarian / non-democratic country.

I will be fine, sadly, if Trump wins and continues to win, but it's not the world I wanted for my children.  Things seemed to be going pretty well, once upon a time...

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3675 on: August 25, 2020, 04:11:24 AM »
Quote
Make the Model T Great Again!
I like it! Put a Trump face with a cylinder besides it and it would make a good guerilla marketing. Though I suspect Republicans would see it as some sort of laudatio.
But I still like it.

Quote
Four more years of Trump is unimaginable
What I guarantee you is that in this case the US would lose the "Leader of the (free) world" position and a lot of other positions too.

Which would basically leave Europe or China as World Leaders, and looking at both, I am sure that 1st position would go to China.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3676 on: August 25, 2020, 05:14:26 AM »
Quote
Make the Model T Great Again!
I like it! Put a Trump face with a cylinder besides it and it would make a good guerilla marketing. Though I suspect Republicans would see it as some sort of laudatio.
But I still like it.

Quote
Four more years of Trump is unimaginable
What I guarantee you is that in this case the US would lose the "Leader of the (free) world" position and a lot of other positions too.

Which would basically leave Europe or China as World Leaders, and looking at both, I am sure that 1st position would go to China.

I think Trump's base voters are very isolationist. They don't really think about how the rest of the world sees them, our opinions are not important.  They don't look at a variety of news sources in their own country, they are not going to be looking at foreign news sources to get other views.  This is nothing new, they were late entrants to both World Wars.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3677 on: August 25, 2020, 05:29:49 AM »
Quote
Make the Model T Great Again!
I like it! Put a Trump face with a cylinder besides it and it would make a good guerilla marketing. Though I suspect Republicans would see it as some sort of laudatio.
But I still like it.

Quote
Four more years of Trump is unimaginable
What I guarantee you is that in this case the US would lose the "Leader of the (free) world" position and a lot of other positions too.

Which would basically leave Europe or China as World Leaders, and looking at both, I am sure that 1st position would go to China.

I think Trump's base voters are very isolationist. They don't really think about how the rest of the world sees them, our opinions are not important.  They don't look at a variety of news sources in their own country, they are not going to be looking at foreign news sources to get other views.  This is nothing new, they were late entrants to both World Wars.

Exactly this. They have been brainwashed into a cultish America-first, America-best, right or wrong mentality. Frankly, most Trump supporters I have spoken to actually consider it a PLUS that other countries don’t approve, because, ya know, other countries are soshulist communist atheist Moslem-lovers or whatever. Which means their disapproval is a sign that Murica is in the right.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 05:36:50 AM by Kris »

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3678 on: August 25, 2020, 05:35:12 AM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P
I thought they wanted to be left out...

Oops.   You'd think I live in Alberta or something.  ;-)

I can't believe I forgot the Bloc Quebecois.

Greens too.

Although they are forgotten by most voters too.

Used to be crazy options like the Yogic Fliers, but I thinkcampaign finance rules ended more independent parties like that.

I guess there's whatever Maxime Bernier's party is too, right? Did they win any seats (did he win his seat)?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3679 on: August 25, 2020, 07:14:12 AM »
Apparently the GOP has given up on even having a platform and is simply supporting Trump's America First policy.

I just got done reading David Frum's piece on what he feels the true GOP platform is now:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwipjtvetbbrAhXCq1kKHezhDZMQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fideas%2Farchive%2F2020%2F08%2Fnew-gop-platform-authoritarianism%2F615640%2F&usg=AOvVaw3xLOCn7k8gVNfQi6Njxtds

For those who do not wish to follow the link:
  • The most important mechanism for policy is the tax burden of society's richest
  • Corona-virus is overhyped relative to the importance of stewarding the private sector
  • Climate change is overhyped relative to the importance of stewarding the private sector
  • China is an adversary with increasingly zero-sum relations with the US
  • The trade and alliance structures built in the wake of WWII are outdated; decisive American action will mean allies have to follow.
  • Health care is a purchase like any other.
  • Voting is a privilege, and states should have wide latitude to regulate it to minize voting fraud.
  • Anti-black racism has ceased to be an important problem in American public life.
  • The courts should move toward undoing the elevation of women's sexual privacy into a constitutional right.
  • Over-strict conflict of interest rules bar talented wealthy people from a chance at public service.
  • Illegal immigration should be slowed, but it's not the responsibility of business operators. Entering the country illegally should have long-lived consequences.
  • Police misconduct is rare, and empowering police can reduce crime.
  • Civility and respect are cherished ideals; the occasional excesses of the President are pardonable reactions to much more severe breaches by others.
[/li]
[/list]

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3680 on: August 25, 2020, 07:37:51 AM »
Well I've lost a lot of respect for Nikki Haley.
Previously she had somehow managed to (mostly) keep herself out of the political mud-slinging, Trumpian name-calling and 'Alternative Fact" world that characterizes this GOP.  She trashed that last night in order to appeal to TrumpWorld. She stoked fears of a Muslim takeover (Biden would be ruled by "The Squad", and "Biden is good for ISIS").  She touted the party line that China 'gave us' the coronavirus.  She refuted that there's systemic racism in the US, and shrewdly deflected from black/brown victims of police brutality to those same minorities who have lost businesses during protests and riots.

And her speech was sprinkled with debunked falsehoods (e.g. the "plane full of cash" sent to Iran; That Obama 'let Iran get away with murder (Jamal Khashoggi??!!) the idea that Trump "brought our economy back" after Obama; that North Korea and Iran are less of a nuclear threat now than they were when Trump took office)

Among some of her comments;

Obama and Biden let North Korea threaten America. President Trump rejected that weakness, and we passed the toughest sanctions on North Korea in history.

Obama and Biden let Iran get away with murder and literally sent them a plane full of cash.
...
This President has a record of strength and success. The former Vice President has a record of weakness and failure. Joe Biden is good for Iran and ISIS... great for Communist China... and he's a godsend to everyone who wants America to apologize, abstain, and abandon our values.
...
A Biden-Harris administration would be much, much worse. Last time, Joe's boss was Obama... this time, it would be Pelosi, Sanders, and the Squad. Their vision for America is socialism.
...
In much of the Democratic Party, it's now fashionable to say that America is racist. That is a lie. America is not a racist country.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3681 on: August 25, 2020, 07:57:25 AM »
Trump’s Fights Are Their Fights. They Have His Back Unapologetically. https://nyti.ms/2Yzlc53

Worth a read, and also why I am not confident in a Biden victory.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3682 on: August 25, 2020, 08:41:25 AM »
Isn't it true that there are many parties in Canada? So if conservatives try to move to the right, they might pick up market share from a fringe group and increase their seat #s?

There are only 3 parties.   

Eight million Quebeçois want to have a word with you...

:-P
I thought they wanted to be left out...

Oops.   You'd think I live in Alberta or something.  ;-)

I can't believe I forgot the Bloc Quebecois.

Greens too.

Although they are forgotten by most voters too.

Used to be crazy options like the Yogic Fliers, but I thinkcampaign finance rules ended more independent parties like that.

I guess there's whatever Maxime Bernier's party is too, right? Did they win any seats (did he win his seat)?

The Rhinoceros Party is hanging on.

Maxime Bernier lost his seat to a Conservative. His party got a grand total of zero seats.  He was in a farming riding talking libertarian ideas about agriculture.  It's a wonder he got as many votes as he did.  He's snarking at O'Toole too.

Hmm, more excitement to come, budget vote in September, Green Party new leader in October.

Since this is a Trump thread, maybe we should take this over to our Canadian thread on off topic? The corruption /incompetence one?  Of course the Americans here may be enjoying our political shenanigans.   ;-)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 08:45:56 AM by RetiredAt63 »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3683 on: August 25, 2020, 09:01:55 AM »
Well I've lost a lot of respect for Nikki Haley.
Previously she had somehow managed to (mostly) keep herself out of the political mud-slinging, Trumpian name-calling and 'Alternative Fact" world that characterizes this GOP.  She trashed that last night in order to appeal to TrumpWorld. She stoked fears of a Muslim takeover (Biden would be ruled by "The Squad", and "Biden is good for ISIS").  She touted the party line that China 'gave us' the coronavirus.  She refuted that there's systemic racism in the US, and shrewdly deflected from black/brown victims of police brutality to those same minorities who have lost businesses during protests and riots.

And her speech was sprinkled with debunked falsehoods (e.g. the "plane full of cash" sent to Iran; That Obama 'let Iran get away with murder (Jamal Khashoggi??!!) the idea that Trump "brought our economy back" after Obama; that North Korea and Iran are less of a nuclear threat now than they were when Trump took office)

Among some of her comments;

Obama and Biden let North Korea threaten America. President Trump rejected that weakness, and we passed the toughest sanctions on North Korea in history.

Obama and Biden let Iran get away with murder and literally sent them a plane full of cash.
...
This President has a record of strength and success. The former Vice President has a record of weakness and failure. Joe Biden is good for Iran and ISIS... great for Communist China... and he's a godsend to everyone who wants America to apologize, abstain, and abandon our values.
...
A Biden-Harris administration would be much, much worse. Last time, Joe's boss was Obama... this time, it would be Pelosi, Sanders, and the Squad. Their vision for America is socialism.
...
In much of the Democratic Party, it's now fashionable to say that America is racist. That is a lie. America is not a racist country.


RNC Day 1 Summary:

Trump may seem like a jerk but, in private, he's a swell guy.

Socialism is bad.

They're coming for ya, suburbanites!

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3684 on: August 25, 2020, 09:16:23 AM »
Well I've lost a lot of respect for Nikki Haley.
Previously she had somehow managed to (mostly) keep herself out of the political mud-slinging, Trumpian name-calling and 'Alternative Fact" world that characterizes this GOP.  She trashed that last night in order to appeal to TrumpWorld. She stoked fears of a Muslim takeover (Biden would be ruled by "The Squad", and "Biden is good for ISIS").  She touted the party line that China 'gave us' the coronavirus.  She refuted that there's systemic racism in the US, and shrewdly deflected from black/brown victims of police brutality to those same minorities who have lost businesses during protests and riots.

And her speech was sprinkled with debunked falsehoods (e.g. the "plane full of cash" sent to Iran; That Obama 'let Iran get away with murder (Jamal Khashoggi??!!) the idea that Trump "brought our economy back" after Obama; that North Korea and Iran are less of a nuclear threat now than they were when Trump took office)

Among some of her comments;

Obama and Biden let North Korea threaten America. President Trump rejected that weakness, and we passed the toughest sanctions on North Korea in history.

Obama and Biden let Iran get away with murder and literally sent them a plane full of cash.
...
This President has a record of strength and success. The former Vice President has a record of weakness and failure. Joe Biden is good for Iran and ISIS... great for Communist China... and he's a godsend to everyone who wants America to apologize, abstain, and abandon our values.
...
A Biden-Harris administration would be much, much worse. Last time, Joe's boss was Obama... this time, it would be Pelosi, Sanders, and the Squad. Their vision for America is socialism.
...
In much of the Democratic Party, it's now fashionable to say that America is racist. That is a lie. America is not a racist country.


RNC Day 1 Summary:

Trump may seem like a jerk but, in private, he's a swell guy.

Socialism is bad.

They're coming for ya, suburbanites!

I'm gonna be honest. I have a really bad feeling right now. To paraphrase H.L. Mencken, no one ever went broke overestimating the racism of fearful white people. Whites voted in majority for Trump in 2016, on a platform of anti-immigration and fear-based rhetoric. And in 2020, racial tensions in the wake of so much police brutality against BIPOC have stirred up fears and anger among many of those same people. In the face of uncertainty, fearful people retrench.

The DNC made the RNC look like a joke in 2016. Hillary clearly and decisively won all three debates against Trump in 2016. She won the popular vote. Things looked pretty bad poll-wise for Trump at this point four years ago.

Trump still won the electoral college, and the election. All of the things that were working for him last time -- the 24-hour news cycle breathlessly giving him constant coverage, Russian interference and disinformation, etc. etc. -- are still working for him today. Plus, he now has the power to derail voting by mail, and the party is working even harder than usual to suppress the vote in districts that tend to vote blue.

I wake up every morning with a feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach. And it doesn't really ever go away. I dunno, guys. I don't think this is gonna go well.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 09:18:16 AM by Kris »

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3685 on: August 25, 2020, 09:27:30 AM »
Ditto that...for sure. Knowing how they have their thumbs on the scale doesn't give me a lot of hope that Dems can push Trump out of office.

Honestly, at this point, I'm almost certain that Trump will cheat his way to victory. My hope is that Dems can turn enough Senate seats blue to retake that chamber, and also hold onto the house. If that does play out, then you can almost guarantee another impeachment is coming; but this time with removal from office. Even if that doesn't play out, with Dem control of Congress, they can check Trump's worst impulses and at least attempt to get back to governing the country by voting on legislation that has sat idle on McConnell's desk for the past few years. So even if Trump wins, if Dems can retake the Senate and maintain the House, I'll feel pretty good about things in our country.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3686 on: August 25, 2020, 09:29:44 AM »
Well I've lost a lot of respect for Nikki Haley.
Previously she had somehow managed to (mostly) keep herself out of the political mud-slinging, Trumpian name-calling and 'Alternative Fact" world that characterizes this GOP.  She trashed that last night in order to appeal to TrumpWorld. She stoked fears of a Muslim takeover (Biden would be ruled by "The Squad", and "Biden is good for ISIS").  She touted the party line that China 'gave us' the coronavirus.  She refuted that there's systemic racism in the US, and shrewdly deflected from black/brown victims of police brutality to those same minorities who have lost businesses during protests and riots.

And her speech was sprinkled with debunked falsehoods (e.g. the "plane full of cash" sent to Iran; That Obama 'let Iran get away with murder (Jamal Khashoggi??!!) the idea that Trump "brought our economy back" after Obama; that North Korea and Iran are less of a nuclear threat now than they were when Trump took office)

Among some of her comments;

Obama and Biden let North Korea threaten America. President Trump rejected that weakness, and we passed the toughest sanctions on North Korea in history.

Obama and Biden let Iran get away with murder and literally sent them a plane full of cash.
...
This President has a record of strength and success. The former Vice President has a record of weakness and failure. Joe Biden is good for Iran and ISIS... great for Communist China... and he's a godsend to everyone who wants America to apologize, abstain, and abandon our values.
...
A Biden-Harris administration would be much, much worse. Last time, Joe's boss was Obama... this time, it would be Pelosi, Sanders, and the Squad. Their vision for America is socialism.
...
In much of the Democratic Party, it's now fashionable to say that America is racist. That is a lie. America is not a racist country.


RNC Day 1 Summary:

Trump may seem like a jerk but, in private, he's a swell guy.

Socialism is bad.

They're coming for ya, suburbanites!

I'm gonna be honest. I have a really bad feeling right now. To paraphrase H.L. Mencken, no one ever went broke overestimating the racism of fearful white people. Whites voted in majority for Trump in 2016, on a platform of anti-immigration and fear-based rhetoric. And in 2020, racial tensions in the wake of so much police brutality against BIPOC have stirred up fears and anger among many of those same people. In the face of uncertainty, fearful people retrench.

The DNC made the RNC look like a joke in 2016. Hillary clearly and decisively won all three debates against Trump in 2016. She won the popular vote. Things looked pretty bad poll-wise for Trump at this point four years ago.

Trump still won the electoral college, and the election. All of the things that were working for him last time -- the 24-hour news cycle breathlessly giving him constant coverage, Russian interference and disinformation, etc. etc. -- are still working for him today. Plus, he now has the power to derail voting by mail, and the party is working even harder than usual to suppress the vote in districts that tend to vote blue.

I wake up every morning with a feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach. And it doesn't really ever go away. I dunno, guys. I don't think this is gonna go well.

I'm assuming that Trump will win a second term at this point. I cannot afford to get my hopes up. This year would have already been sad and hard without factoring in COVID or the election. I'd rather avoid the emotional roller coaster on Nov. 3.

I'm still voting, and telling everyone I know to vote, and working the election, advertising for poll workers and voter registration, and getting out as much factual information as I can. But I refuse to expect the best.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3687 on: August 25, 2020, 09:37:45 AM »




I've heard that there's supposed to be a dimensional shift on 8/27/20, so maybe that's the day Trump's karma squashes him like a bug.  We're keeping champagne in the fridge. 


You guys just have to stay positive.




bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3688 on: August 25, 2020, 09:50:15 AM »




I've heard that there's supposed to be a dimensional shift on 8/27/20, so maybe that's the day Trump's karma squashes him like a bug.  We're keeping champagne in the fridge. 


You guys just have to stay positive.

Right. Well, the 2nd paragraph.

The RNC, Day 1, was partially about appealing to voters that Trump needs, given that his base isn't enough.

1) Black voters. There were more black people on stage than in the audience.
2) Suburbanites and, in particular, (white) woman suburbanites. Trump is losing this demographic.

It was a defensive first day.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3689 on: August 25, 2020, 10:04:01 AM »
A significant positive is that coronavirus has stopped Trump from holding rallies.  That denies him the positive, exciting newcoverage he has been used to and doesn't give him the constant ego boost he needs.  Both things help even-up the contest.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3690 on: August 25, 2020, 10:06:37 AM »
I refuse to even think about another 4 years of Trump.  We'll burn that bridge if we get there.  Hopefully we won't.  Either way I'll be marching to the polls in November with my mask on and day drinking afterwards.  Hopefully in celebration.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3691 on: August 25, 2020, 11:21:26 AM »

I just got done reading David Frum's piece on what he feels the true GOP platform is now:.
.
.
.

If that is the Republican stance I can fully convicted say there is not a piece of Republican in me.
Also I am confused as how even a single person could hold all those views.

Not to mention "voting is a privilege" is right back to the ancient greece, where everyone could vote. Everyone who was a wealthy, city born rich and no one else, of course.

Quote
Socialism is bad
Except when it profits you. Then even dark dyed Republicans find it great.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3692 on: August 25, 2020, 11:28:17 AM »
I think #8 is just another Racism is overhyped compared to perserving private capital for white suburban housewives...

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3693 on: August 25, 2020, 11:59:24 AM »
So, this probably doesn't belong here, but here's Bad Lip Reading's interpretation of the Axios interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oKYK1MPwhM

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3694 on: August 25, 2020, 12:04:25 PM »
I refuse to even think about another 4 years of Trump.  We'll burn that bridge if we get there.  Hopefully we won't.  Either way I'll be marching to the polls in November with my mask on and day drinking afterwards.  Hopefully in celebration.

This. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic. I can't give up hope.

lemanfan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3695 on: August 25, 2020, 01:17:55 PM »
How do you think that the riots in Portland and other places will affect things?  Will that allow some fear of violence and speak of law and order to drive votes from Biden to Trump in a way that might affect things significantly?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3696 on: August 25, 2020, 01:26:42 PM »
How do you think that the riots in Portland and other places will affect things?  Will that allow some fear of violence and speak of law and order to drive votes from Biden to Trump in a way that might affect things significantly?

Depends on whether more people blame Trump for stoking racial tensions vs think he is the "law and order" candidate.

That's the inherent problem with running as an incumbent wanting while claiming you are the candidate who can 'fix' current problems: why are they problems at all under your watch?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3697 on: August 25, 2020, 01:27:28 PM »
Conservatives are trying to use that the riots are going on to demonstrate that liberal-run cities are lawless places. This will turn out their base.

At the margins, I think there are a lot of quiet people who want change, who realize that the virus was mishandled by Republicans, and who realize that Biden is a lot less scary than Sanders or a far-left alternative that could be there. Some of them may have voted for Trump in 2016 because they didn't think they had as much to lose as it turns out they did. They are keeping quiet because they don't want their Trump-supporting friends (the ones who got riled up by Clinton last cycle) to bully them.

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3698 on: August 25, 2020, 01:41:43 PM »
How do you think that the riots in Portland and other places will affect things?  Will that allow some fear of violence and speak of law and order to drive votes from Biden to Trump in a way that might affect things significantly?

Depends on whether more people blame Trump for stoking racial tensions vs think he is the "law and order" candidate.

That's the inherent problem with running as an incumbent wanting while claiming you are the candidate who can 'fix' current problems: why are they problems at all under your watch?

Because nothing could ever be his fault.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3699 on: August 25, 2020, 01:53:45 PM »
Conservatives are trying to use that the riots are going on to demonstrate that liberal-run cities are lawless places. This will turn out their base.

At the margins, I think there are a lot of quiet people who want change, who realize that the virus was mishandled by Republicans, and who realize that Biden is a lot less scary than Sanders or a far-left alternative that could be there. Some of them may have voted for Trump in 2016 because they didn't think they had as much to lose as it turns out they did. They are keeping quiet because they don't want their Trump-supporting friends (the ones who got riled up by Clinton last cycle) to bully them.

I sure hope to hell this is the case. And that there are a lot of them. And that they are all very motivated to vote.