Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 302953 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3550 on: August 15, 2020, 10:09:30 AM »
At least 7 automatic mail sorters have been removed in one area, it's on CNN.  So it isn't just talk.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3551 on: August 15, 2020, 11:56:10 AM »
At least 7 automatic mail sorters have been removed in one area, it's on CNN.  So it isn't just talk.

It's sort of interesting to have an open front row seat to watch the fall of democracy/rise of authoritarianism in the United States live and on TV . . . but I'd be much happier if they returned to rule of law.  I don't think the fall of Rome was all that great for Rome's trading partners.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3552 on: August 15, 2020, 12:35:11 PM »
I am sure there will be ballot boxes located in towns. We need to encourage our friends and neighbors to take a ride and deposit the ballots in those boxes and bypass the mail in votes. I wish they would have a TV campaign advertising that option every single day from now till November 3rd.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3553 on: August 15, 2020, 03:12:50 PM »
At least 7 automatic mail sorters have been removed in one area, it's on CNN.  So it isn't just talk.

It's sort of interesting to have an open front row seat to watch the fall of democracy/rise of authoritarianism in the United States live and on TV . . . but I'd be much happier if they returned to rule of law.  I don't think the fall of Rome was all that great for Rome's trading partners.

I don't think the US had ever been too concerned with other people's rights, not since slavery, and when they wiped out civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and through to Guantanamo. It's only a short hop from not respecting the rights of 'them', to finding your own rights and freedoms curtailed.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3554 on: August 16, 2020, 04:20:01 AM »
At least 7 automatic mail sorters have been removed in one area, it's on CNN.  So it isn't just talk.

It's sort of interesting to have an open front row seat to watch the fall of democracy/rise of authoritarianism in the United States live and on TV . . . but I'd be much happier if they returned to rule of law.  I don't think the fall of Rome was all that great for Rome's trading partners.

I don't think the US had ever been too concerned with other people's rights, not since slavery, and when they wiped out civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and through to Guantanamo. It's only a short hop from not respecting the rights of 'them', to finding your own rights and freedoms curtailed.
It's still "them". Didn't you hear? Democrats are un-American. They don't want to MAGA!

teen persuasion

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3555 on: August 16, 2020, 07:30:21 AM »
I don't get it. If the majority of people vote by mail, wouldn't that also squash Republican votes too? Does he think only Democrats will vote by mail? I cannot believe the PO boxes are being hauled away on trucks! Why isn't anyone doing anything about this? This is America, why is Trump's crony allowed to do this and taking out some of the sorting machines, plus cutting hours at the PO too!
I'm in NY 27 (reddest district in NY) where we *finally* had a special election in June (delayed from April) to replace convicted felon Rep Chris Collins (resigned last October when he pled guilty).  NY just began allowing early voting, and allowed everyone to vote absentee due to Covid.  The early voting (very small numbers) broke 50:50 D:R.  Day of voting was 1/3 D, 2/3 R, and the R candidate Jacobs claimed victory at +30%.  D candidate said not so fast, we are counting EVERY vote.  It took at least a month, because it's so new here, and Covid changed everything.  Absentee votes broke 3/4 D to 1/4 R.   Never did find out how much of the vote shifted from in person to absentee, but the end result was much closer, McMurray (D) lost by under 5% in a heavily R district.

They face off again in November.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3556 on: August 17, 2020, 05:56:20 AM »
Elections are always important, and particularly so for the US election Nov 2020. Important for the world. It is worth taking a slight risk with COVID to vote in person. Wear a mask. Above all, actually get out and vote. In Australia you get fined if you do not vote, and rightly so.

In Australia we vote on a Saturday, and I understand that France and Germany vote on Sundays. This allows some leeway to vote when crowds are less. in Australia, you walk in to a school hall (typically, because schools are closed) have you name struck through by an election official, so that you cannot vote more than once, receive a ballot, walk to a booth, tick the boxes, drop the ballot into the bin and leave. Ten minutes at the outside. I hear that at some election sites there are sausage sizzles, but I have not seen that. A friendly atmosphere.

From a US voter - this has been my experience almost exactly. My polling place is a block away from my house at an elementary school. Schools are closed on Election Day. The PTA usually has a bake sale in the lobby.

Our state also has early in-person voting at bigger venues, which we did in 2018.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3557 on: August 17, 2020, 07:08:54 AM »
Elections are always important, and particularly so for the US election Nov 2020. Important for the world. It is worth taking a slight risk with COVID to vote in person. Wear a mask. Above all, actually get out and vote. In Australia you get fined if you do not vote, and rightly so.

In Australia we vote on a Saturday, and I understand that France and Germany vote on Sundays. This allows some leeway to vote when crowds are less. in Australia, you walk in to a school hall (typically, because schools are closed) have you name struck through by an election official, so that you cannot vote more than once, receive a ballot, walk to a booth, tick the boxes, drop the ballot into the bin and leave. Ten minutes at the outside. I hear that at some election sites there are sausage sizzles, but I have not seen that. A friendly atmosphere.

From a US voter - this has been my experience almost exactly. My polling place is a block away from my house at an elementary school. Schools are closed on Election Day. The PTA usually has a bake sale in the lobby.


This is also my experience. Our polling place is the elementary school located four blocks from our house. All voters are checked in against the e-pollbook before they are issued their ballot. If they were issued an absentee ballot but did not use it, this will show up in the pollbook and they have the option to take their ballot to the clerk's office or to surrender it and be issued an in-person ballot. Any issues that pop up are resolved with phone calls to the clerk's office. Our state only uses paper ballots so that there's a paper trail, and these are read immediately by electronic tabulators that will reject the ballot if there's an error (e.g., someone votes for too many candidates in a race or votes cross-party during a partisan primary).

One can also technically vote early in person as soon as the absentee ballots are released by applying for and receiving a ballot in person, voting right there, and handing the ballot back to the clerk before leaving.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3558 on: August 17, 2020, 07:20:23 AM »
In the US, few schools close on election day, but the basic process is the same.

Some polling locations have far too many people, given that they all have to check in with one person. This results in waiting in line, sometimes for hours. When I worked the polls in March, I didn't get a break to see how long the line was, but it was constantly out the door for several hours straight. We only had six booths, so there was a back up there, as well. The elections board had tried to make up for the expected volume by having a new place, on the other side of the parking lot, but named after the same community leader (ie, we were in ABC Community Center, they were in ABC Elementary) so a lot of people had to be sent back and forth between the two. Turns out, we had placed our signs more prominently, so we were the ones with many more people through our door than we should have had (their main entrance was off a side street, so everyone passed our signs first).

This was considered a well run polling station.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3559 on: August 17, 2020, 08:27:32 AM »
Is anybody considering getting those hologram rings they have in the movie "Zardoz"? Those seemed to lead to pretty fair elections for things.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3560 on: August 17, 2020, 08:39:18 AM »
In the US, few schools close on election day, but the basic process is the same.

Some polling locations have far too many people, given that they all have to check in with one person.
Huh? What are you meaning by that?
Is there only one person veryfying a voter???

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3561 on: August 17, 2020, 08:51:34 AM »
In the US, few schools close on election day, but the basic process is the same.

Some polling locations have far too many people, given that they all have to check in with one person.
Huh? What are you meaning by that?
Is there only one person veryfying a voter???

In some of our elections I have seen check-in alphabetically.  You know, A to L line up here, M to Z line up there.  Lots of organizations do meeting check-in like that, no reason a polling station can't do it too.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3562 on: August 17, 2020, 08:53:52 AM »
In the US, few schools close on election day, but the basic process is the same.

Some polling locations have far too many people, given that they all have to check in with one person.
Huh? What are you meaning by that?
Is there only one person veryfying a voter???

Yes, in many polling stations. As described by someone else, each voter needs to be checked off, often they need to sign in. This all has to happen in one book, so that they can't come back and check in with a different person, operating with a different book. I have voted in one place that divided up the alphabet, but only that one. And you still had to stand in a single line until you actually got into the building.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3563 on: August 17, 2020, 09:14:17 AM »
I should also add that experiences across the US ought to be different because elections are fundamentally run by the States, not the Federal bureaucracy.

Informally, I went in person to vote in a March primary, and--having moved--there had to be some additional steps where an election judge phoned my old precinct to verify I had not yet voted there, then they handed me a ballot. I voted in primaries where there was little doubt in the outcome so I could go through this in March, because I figured there would be hiccups in November. Just had a feeling.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3564 on: August 17, 2020, 09:26:58 AM »
In my location the schools are closed on election day and there are multiple check in tables based on alphabetized street names.  I've never had to wait in line for very long at all, but I usually go first thing when they open, around 6 am.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3565 on: August 17, 2020, 10:18:36 AM »
Here in WA, we have been all mail in for some time (with a very limited number of in person locations for those that mail in does not work for due to whatever reason). It is simple, works well, and way better than the in person voting experiences I have had. The county office has a webpage where I can check to see if my vote has been received. In 2018, the suspected improper/fraudulent ballot rate was reported at 0.004 percent.

Mail in voting does not appear to have dramatically shifted the % of eligible voters casting a ballot and the overall % of the voting population that participates is still embarrassingly low at around 60%. This is not too far off of the national statistics.
State:
https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voter-participation.aspx
National:
http://www.electproject.org/national-1789-present

Quite frankly, I am embarrassed by the state of elections in the US. We have been doing this for over 200 years and while a lot of places do run pretty smoothly, the long (and continuing) history of voter disenfranchisement through a bevy of tactics is sickening. That we, as a nation, have not pushed harder on rectifying this does not speak well of us. Most citizens are too caught up in their daily lives (I say this without blame) to get into the weeds of how voter roll purges, ID requirements, allocation of polling resources, gerrymandering, etc operate unless it directly disenfranchises them in a way that is apparent. I think that this is part of what is unique about the USPS actions over the last few weeks. It is transparent and adversely impacts an institution that Americans generally like.

Trump's strategy regarding mail in voting is simple, and the math behind it is well illustrated by the NY red district example above.
1. Get early good numbers from in person voting to generate a public narrative (as also happened for GWB in FL 2000).
2. Push to stop counting mail in ballots early.
3. Work to disallow as many mail in ballots as possible.
4. Send to SCOTUS to attempt to certify based on incomplete returns, following the 2000 playbook.

Given that demographics are wildly against the GOP, in order to survive at the federal level, they will have to either embrace diversity to make a bigger tent, or further double down on increasing the power of rural states, and working to bias cast ballots.


NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3566 on: August 17, 2020, 07:50:12 PM »
Elections are always important, and particularly so for the US election Nov 2020. Important for the world. It is worth taking a slight risk with COVID to vote in person. Wear a mask. Above all, actually get out and vote. In Australia you get fined if you do not vote, and rightly so.

In Australia we vote on a Saturday, and I understand that France and Germany vote on Sundays. This allows some leeway to vote when crowds are less. in Australia, you walk in to a school hall (typically, because schools are closed) have you name struck through by an election official, so that you cannot vote more than once, receive a ballot, walk to a booth, tick the boxes, drop the ballot into the bin and leave. Ten minutes at the outside. I hear that at some election sites there are sausage sizzles, but I have not seen that. A friendly atmosphere.

From a US voter - this has been my experience almost exactly. My polling place is a block away from my house at an elementary school. Schools are closed on Election Day. The PTA usually has a bake sale in the lobby.

Our state also has early in-person voting at bigger venues, which we did in 2018.

Can't vote in the US yet (likely have citizenship by the midterms or next presidential election).

In Canada you need to have either:
(a) 1 piece of government issued photo ID (e.g. driver's licence);
(b) 2 pieces of ID showing your name, with at least one showing your current address (e.g. voter info card + bank statement, or student ID + utility bill); or
(c) No ID, but declare your ID and address in writing and have someone who knows you and assigned to the same polling station vouch for you. The voucher must (i) prove their identity & address using a or b and (ii) can only vouch for one person (unless long term care institutions).
https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

All three of these options seem reasonable to me and I don't see why they couldn't be adopted in the US (although I get that each State is different here).

I only ever used option (a), but I've heard that many young people don't have driver's license (although I'd imagine that they'd get other forms of photo ID...but who knows).

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3567 on: August 18, 2020, 07:56:05 AM »
In the US, voters receive voter registration IDs in the mail shortly before elections--theoretically this would confirm your mailing address--but they're not sufficient in certain states. Like everything else in the US, the voter ID issue somehow became partisan, with conservative state governments trying to reduce turnout among minority voters.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3568 on: August 18, 2020, 08:51:05 AM »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3569 on: August 18, 2020, 09:59:50 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3570 on: August 18, 2020, 10:06:49 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3571 on: August 18, 2020, 10:10:14 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

The voting rights act of 1965 required commonly offending states to get approval before making such changes, but that approval process was overturned and states immediately started making it harder for people in certain areas to vote. In TX, they immediately passed rules that had been explicitly rejected under that approval process.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:26:21 AM by ixtap »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3572 on: August 18, 2020, 10:16:43 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

In the United States voting day is always on a Tuesday, and most polling places close somewhere between 7 and 8pm.  This can be a particular burden to people who work late, and/or have school-aged children they must care for after school.

IN addition to allowing mail-in voting, one dirt-simple way of improving access to voting would be to extend voting day to a 3 or 4 day window, including the weekend.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3573 on: August 18, 2020, 10:23:28 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

The voting rights act of 1965 required commonly offending states to get approval before making such changes, but that approval process was overturned and stayed immediately started making it harder for people in certain areas to vote.
Also the person running for office was also the person running the election.  I'm still astonished that the legal system in the USA enables corruption like that.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3574 on: August 18, 2020, 10:37:19 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

In the United States voting day is always on a Tuesday, and most polling places close somewhere between 7 and 8pm.  This can be a particular burden to people who work late, and/or have school-aged children they must care for after school.

IN addition to allowing mail-in voting, one dirt-simple way of improving access to voting would be to extend voting day to a 3 or 4 day window, including the weekend.

You were here, so you know. In Canada, employers must ensure employees have 4 continuous hours to vote,  that doesn't mean 4 hours off work, but it means adjustments. Advance polls are open 9am to 9 pm, election day polling stations are 9:30am to 9:30pm.  So on Election Day, if you normally finish at 5, you are fine. If you finish at 6, you are short a half hour, and you leave at 5:30. If you have a later shift and will vote in the morning, you can't start before 1:30.  You can take your kids with you, There were times when DD was little and I picked her up from after-school care and took her with me.  I figured it was a good civics lesson.

We vote on Mondays.  3 or 4 day polls would make more sense, especially since so many schools are used for polling stations.

One of the many things I hated about the Harper government was that they put restrictions on Elections Canada's efforts to increase voting by advertising to groups that usually vote in low numbers.  At least he didn't manage to make it harder to vote, although he tried.

TL:DR  From outside the American system seems to be set up to make it difficult to vote, in a whole bunch of ways.  Other countries' election systems may not be perfect but they work a lot better.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3575 on: August 18, 2020, 10:57:21 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

In the United States voting day is always on a Tuesday, and most polling places close somewhere between 7 and 8pm.  This can be a particular burden to people who work late, and/or have school-aged children they must care for after school.

IN addition to allowing mail-in voting, one dirt-simple way of improving access to voting would be to extend voting day to a 3 or 4 day window, including the weekend.

Yes. In my state, we voted in changes to our election process in 2018, including expanding any-reason absentee voting, providing clerk office hours the weekend before election day (so that people can walk in, apply for an absentee ballot, and vote on the spot), and extending the voter registration period up to election day. We're seeing record voter turnouts even in a pandemic year, and most of that is driven by increased absentee voting.

Plina

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3576 on: August 18, 2020, 11:14:41 AM »
In Sweden we vote on Sunday. You can also vote in advance on certain locations before the election day. I did that last time due to a trip abroad on electronics day.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 01:59:30 PM by Plina »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3577 on: August 18, 2020, 11:29:13 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

Thank you for several excellent posts, @ixtap !

Indeed, there is remarkable consistency in that--whenever they win control of state legislatures--Republicans pass laws to make it harder to vote. (Warning, left-leaning source: https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Democracy,_Voter_Rights,_and_Federal_Power )

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3578 on: August 18, 2020, 12:17:55 PM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

In the United States voting day is always on a Tuesday, and most polling places close somewhere between 7 and 8pm.  This can be a particular burden to people who work late, and/or have school-aged children they must care for after school.

IN addition to allowing mail-in voting, one dirt-simple way of improving access to voting would be to extend voting day to a 3 or 4 day window, including the weekend.

This seems like a no brainier,especially this year.

Unprepared states don't have to make up new voting processes on the fly and you reduce corona risk.

Let it go for a week or two before. Still way better than waiting a month and a half like they did here in NYS.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3579 on: August 18, 2020, 12:49:14 PM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this?  It was a struggle, but it happened.

In the United States voting day is always on a Tuesday, and most polling places close somewhere between 7 and 8pm.  This can be a particular burden to people who work late, and/or have school-aged children they must care for after school.

IN addition to allowing mail-in voting, one dirt-simple way of improving access to voting would be to extend voting day to a 3 or 4 day window, including the weekend.

This seems like a no brainier,especially this year.

Unprepared states don't have to make up new voting processes on the fly and you reduce corona risk.

Let it go for a week or two before. Still way better than waiting a month and a half like they did here in NYS.

Well, it does seem like a no-brainer... assuming both parties have an equal desire to provide as much access to voting as possible.

Of course, we know that is not the case.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3580 on: August 18, 2020, 01:12:24 PM »
Seems that 20 states suing is enough to cause DeJoy to suspend his gutting of the USPS until after the election. Of course he didn't address all of the sorting machines and drop boxes that have already been removed in...oddly enough...places that Hilary Clinton won in 2016

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3581 on: August 18, 2020, 01:39:58 PM »
Seems that 20 states suing is enough to cause DeJoy to suspend his gutting of the USPS until after the election. Of course he didn't address all of the sorting machines and drop boxes that have already been removed in...oddly enough...places that Hilary Clinton won in 2016

When obviously corrupting an election, every little bit helps.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3582 on: August 18, 2020, 02:39:49 PM »
Truly outrageous: according to https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2016/DR-AR-16-007.pdf, "Nationally the number of collection boxes declined by more than 12,000 in the past 5 years."
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 07:44:18 PM by MDM »

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3583 on: August 18, 2020, 03:03:10 PM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this? It was a struggle, but it happened.

But did it though?

https://www.epi.org/publication/schools-are-still-segregated-and-black-children-are-paying-a-price/
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 03:08:04 PM by Psychstache »

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3584 on: August 18, 2020, 04:32:51 PM »
Truly outrageous: according to https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2016/DR-AR-16-007.pdf, "Nationally the number of collection boxes declined by more than 12,000 in the past 5 years."

Would be interesting to see year by year for the last decade or so. It does seem like less people use mail for correspondence, but more use for packages.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3585 on: August 18, 2020, 06:09:09 PM »
All these posts about voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc really puts paid to the fantasy that the good ol' US of A is the land of democracy, freedom and justice for all.  Not that many outside the USA, nor, I would think, anyone with a brain inside the USA, has believed that in a long time anyway.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3586 on: August 18, 2020, 06:22:02 PM »
All these posts about voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc really puts paid to the fantasy that the good ol' US of A is the land of democracy, freedom and justice for all.  Not that many outside the USA, nor, I would think, anyone with a brain inside the USA, has believed that in a long time anyway.

The percentages are still low enough to be a credible democracy, but we still need to fight to make it a more equitable and respected one.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3587 on: August 18, 2020, 07:22:54 PM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this? It was a struggle, but it happened.

But did it though?

https://www.epi.org/publication/schools-are-still-segregated-and-black-children-are-paying-a-price/

Well, it was supposed to. Two fails.  So many people diss the boomers, but it was our age group in the States that was involved in the civil rights movement.  And then the feminist movement.  All have had backlash, I guess it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back, time for the next 2 steps forward.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3588 on: August 18, 2020, 11:59:57 PM »
The percentages are still low enough to be a credible democracy, but we still need to fight to make it a more equitable and respected one.
I suppose if you set the bar low enough for being a credible democracy that's true.

If such actions were being taking in another country, and the highest court in the land was giving the green light to such actions, the USA would be stridently condemning such a country.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3589 on: August 19, 2020, 04:18:37 AM »
Yes. In my state, we voted in changes to our election process in 2018, including expanding any-reason absentee voting, providing clerk office hours the weekend before election day (so that people can walk in, apply for an absentee ballot, and vote on the spot),
Here in Germany, besides voting of course on a Sunday where 90% of people don't work, you can also vote in person during weekdays for at least 2 weeks in the town house. You simply go there, and just like at voting day, you give your voting card (that came through post from the city where everyone who lives there has to register), get your ballot and vote.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3590 on: August 19, 2020, 06:23:45 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this? It was a struggle, but it happened.

But did it though?

https://www.epi.org/publication/schools-are-still-segregated-and-black-children-are-paying-a-price/

Well, it was supposed to. Two fails.  So many people diss the boomers, but it was our age group in the States that was involved in the civil rights movement.  And then the feminist movement.  All have had backlash, I guess it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back, time for the next 2 steps forward.

Baby boomers may have been protesting in the 1960s, but the principal leaders of the Civil Rights movement were all born before 1940.

I will sign on that a major economic story from 1970-2019 was the rise of women in the labor force, and that baby boomer women advanced significantly.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3591 on: August 19, 2020, 10:33:53 AM »
One reason the ID issue is so contentious is the cost. Not just the fees, either. GA passed a voter ID law and immediately shut down many of the DMV stations in poorer parts of the state (all state IDs, even the non driver ID is issues by the department of motor vehicles). Now, not only did you need all the fees, but you also have to travel to another town, even though you don't have any transportation. Then, they closed polling stations in the same areas, meaning that you have to travel to that other town again, now on a specific day.

That is so f'ed up.  And I suppose the jobs of the people in the poorer areas are inflexible enough that community organisers can't rent a bus to get a group to a DMV for licenses/ID?  And to get them to polling stations?  Part of the 60s civil rights movement was to get people registered to vote and to get them to polling stations.  Do people remember the school integration and forget this? It was a struggle, but it happened.

But did it though?

https://www.epi.org/publication/schools-are-still-segregated-and-black-children-are-paying-a-price/

Well, it was supposed to. Two fails.  So many people diss the boomers, but it was our age group in the States that was involved in the civil rights movement.  And then the feminist movement.  All have had backlash, I guess it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back, time for the next 2 steps forward.

Baby boomers may have been protesting in the 1960s, but the principal leaders of the Civil Rights movement were all born before 1940.

I will sign on that a major economic story from 1970-2019 was the rise of women in the labor force, and that baby boomer women advanced significantly.

These things come in waves.  And my comment on boomers does not denigrate the leaders born earlier. 


talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3592 on: August 19, 2020, 12:36:11 PM »
For those of you interested in more details about how women have changed their approach to work/family balance (and won near-equality in the workplace over the last fifty years), check out this lecture by Economist Claudia Goldin, whose career includes a remarkable book on the subject. She also includes some recent comments on the situation with school shutdowns, etc.

https://nber.org/feldstein_lecture_2020/feldstein_lecture_2020.html

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3593 on: August 20, 2020, 07:54:03 AM »
Well, shit. Might be a good day after all.

Former Trump advisor Steve Bannon arrested on charges of defrauding donors in fundraising scheme (Source: CNBC)

Quote
Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon has been arrested after being charged with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors through their campaign “We Build the Wall.”

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3594 on: August 20, 2020, 08:06:16 AM »
Yes. In my state, we voted in changes to our election process in 2018, including expanding any-reason absentee voting, providing clerk office hours the weekend before election day (so that people can walk in, apply for an absentee ballot, and vote on the spot),
Here in Germany, besides voting of course on a Sunday where 90% of people don't work, you can also vote in person during weekdays for at least 2 weeks in the town house. You simply go there, and just like at voting day, you give your voting card (that came through post from the city where everyone who lives there has to register), get your ballot and vote.

Not surprising that Germany has a sensible process.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3595 on: August 20, 2020, 08:07:05 AM »
Well, shit. Might be a good day after all.

Former Trump advisor Steve Bannon arrested on charges of defrauding donors in fundraising scheme (Source: CNBC)

Quote
Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon has been arrested after being charged with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors through their campaign “We Build the Wall.”

Trump will say he doesn't know him or hardly knew him!

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3596 on: August 20, 2020, 08:27:16 AM »
Well, shit. Might be a good day after all.

Former Trump advisor Steve Bannon arrested on charges of defrauding donors in fundraising scheme (Source: CNBC)

Quote
Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon has been arrested after being charged with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors through their campaign “We Build the Wall.”

Trump will say he doesn't know him or hardly knew him!

Or will pardon him.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3597 on: August 20, 2020, 08:43:34 AM »
Well, shit. Might be a good day after all.

Former Trump advisor Steve Bannon arrested on charges of defrauding donors in fundraising scheme (Source: CNBC)

Quote
Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon has been arrested after being charged with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors through their campaign “We Build the Wall.”

Trump will say he doesn't know him or hardly knew him!

Or will pardon him.

c) All of the above.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3598 on: August 20, 2020, 08:46:06 AM »
Trump, While Attacking Mail Voting, Casts Mail Ballot Again

Sigh.

Quote
President Trump cast a vote-by-mail ballot in Florida this week after months of questioning the security of the method of voting, and in doing so he returned it to election officials using a technique many Republicans say should be illegal.

---

Trump submitted the Florida primary ballot by giving it to a third party to return, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach elections supervisor confirmed to NPR on Wednesday. Republicans often derisively refer to sending in a ballot this way as "ballot harvesting," and it's something Trump has criticized.

"GET RID OF BALLOT HARVESTING, IT IS RAMPANT WITH FRAUD," he tweeted in April.

House Republicans recently introduced a bill to force states (which are generally allowed to establish their own rules around voting) to make the practice of turning in a nonfamily member's ballot illegal.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3599 on: August 20, 2020, 08:49:38 AM »
Hahaha, each charge carries a 20 year prison term! Each person is charged with two counts!

https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/former-white-house-advisor-steve-bannon-indicted/