Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 303348 times)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3450 on: August 11, 2020, 12:43:34 PM »
Also, the US deficit for 2020 is literally off the charts compared to historical deficits - 3.7 Trillion and counting (Trump and Congress are trying to get anywhere from another 1 - 3 Trillion approved)...

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335#:~:text=For%20fiscal%20year%202020%2C%20CBO's,end%20of%20the%20fiscal%20year.

Deficit spending to recover from some national crisis (the Great Recession, COVID-19) is perfectly normal and in fact what is supposed to happen.

What is outrageous about Trump is the ridiculous deficits that he and congressional Republicans engineered before 2020 thanks to the TCJA combined with ever-increasing government spending.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3451 on: August 11, 2020, 01:32:25 PM »
I think it will be several years before we get a full account of what the true deficit is for 2020, and perhaps a full decade before we can say much about it's long term consequences and benefits. 

A lot of those Covid relief measures are for programs loan programs which might get converted into grants... or maybe not.  The PPP itself is a giant accounting nightmare where some businesses will certainly never pay it back (an expense), while others might.  We've lready seen some instances of companies being awarded funds only to return them for one reason or antoher.  Its hard enough to even get an accurate accounting of how much money is left in various programs right now.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3452 on: August 11, 2020, 02:25:57 PM »
I can't wait to be outraged by what Trump has to say about Kamala Harris being selected as Biden's VP!  I was already outraged that Trump thinks it's a sign of weakness to have specified a woman as a running mate :)

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3453 on: August 11, 2020, 02:33:59 PM »
I can't wait to be outraged by what Trump has to say about Kamala Harris being selected as Biden's VP!  I was already outraged that Trump thinks it's a sign of weakness to have specified a woman as a running mate :)

We'll see his true colors,
Shining through.
And that's why we hate him.

True colors, like a monochrome printer stuck on repeat...


Doesn't scan very well...



ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3454 on: August 11, 2020, 03:01:00 PM »
Quote

But I don't think anyone believes that the current stimulus negotiations were about helping people. Dems want bail outs for poorly run states and Reps want liability protection to protect businesses.

Tactically, I think this move helps Trump because it looks like it puts him more on the side of the people than the politicians .

But, I think ruling by EO sucks and erodes the system in the medium to long term. Even when the policy is good (see buying prescription drugs from Canada). I also thought the same thing when Obama was ruling by EO or rules changes.

....

I'm sorry but this is false. This isn't about states being poorly run or not. Even states like California who were running a surplus and putting aside extra money in a rainy day fund are now hurting, because the scale of this crisis far surpasses normal emergency savings. The way to help individuals is to make sure that the states remain solvent so they can continue providing all of the social services so urgently needed right now.

Look at New Zealand. Another poster around these parts summarized it for us saying that the way they got and are keeping COVID under control in that country is simple. Pay people 80% of their salary for x weeks to stay home so they can put a clamp on transmission. Use that time to put in place a robust trace-and-test scheme, and then slowly open up with appropriate measures in place to stamp out any little fires that pop up.

Compare that to the US: no comprehensive shutdown, no comprehensive financial support for people who are then made to choose between keeping food on the table or risking their lives and others, insufficient testing, insufficient tracing. There was no possibility for us to get anything other than a resurgence of disease after states started opening up because we never closed sufficiently to begin with in many states, and didn't use that time to put a correct system in place to protect us after opening.

I know I'm wandering a bit off topic here, but the common thread is that our government wasn't willing to spend what it took to get this under control and wasn't willing to sacrifice to actually help the individual people who are now suffering. So as a result we are all suffering a neutered economy, global shunning, and a disease that will likely continue to run rampant for the next 6-12 months leaving hundreds of thousands dead.

It wasn't quite that simple.
The reason it worked was that we shut the country and the borders when we had 100 or so cases. Bam, just like that, shutdown. Yes, there was an 80% subsidy that employers got to pay to staff, to keep people employed. Thousands of businesses still went under and unemployment has still spiked massively. There was also a subsidy for people unemployed as a result of covid, and a boost to the base unemployment benefit. Yes, a lot of money was spent and continues to be spent, but what actually worked was WHEN we shut down. If it had been even a few days later, we may not have made it. It took months of lockdown just to get rid of the results of 100 cases. And it was also critical when we reopened. We had no active cases when we reopened. We locked down early, hard, and we reopened as late as we could. That's actually what made the difference in terms of the pandemic. The money helped people comply, and moved social issues until after we had dealt with the primary issue, which was covid.

Now we have the other issues. The borders are closed and will be for a long time. They might open at some point to some pacific islands, but that's it. Whole sectors of the economy are crippled. Tourism is a big deal here. A number of very large employers have either gone under or shed thousands of staff. MANY people are finding that they have to shift and adapt careers or ways of generating income. It's not the same as in the US, because we have a comprehensive social safety net that's easy to access, but people are still hurting. Better to be unemployed and alive than dead of a bloody pandemic.


Annnnnnnnd.... we're back in lockdown..... But the good news is that 4 people in the same family tested positive this afternoon, and by 10pm tonight we're in lockdown. No fucking around.
Amazing what good leadership looks like.

I have to credit Gavin Newsom for locking California down early, the first state to do so. The problem is that states have to run balanced budgets and with the federal government telling the states to pretend Covid doesn’t exist or go pound sand, there is huge financial pressure to open up prematurely. So unsurprisingly, we opened up too quickly and too early and everything went to hell.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3455 on: August 11, 2020, 03:04:45 PM »
Newsom locked down early, but opened up too quickly. There was a phased plan, but we moved between phases in a matter of days, before seeing any effects.

And almost every place in the US has put bars and restaurants above schools. Yeah, we could open the schools if we were willing to not open other things! Or think outside the box and open all the classrooms but bring in the youngest and the special ed, rather than everyone. What? Need too many adults to do that??

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3456 on: August 11, 2020, 03:30:58 PM »
Quote
But I don't think anyone believes that the current stimulus negotiations were about helping people. Dems want bail outs for poorly run states and Reps want liability protection to protect businesses. 

Strangely that it is always Dems (lefts) trying to save poorly run public institutions, but never ever Republicans (right wingers) wanting to bail out poorly run private companies with tax payer money.

That's because private companies can do no wrong.  Free market, capitalism, pull yourself by your own boot straps, etc.  Any argument to the contrary makes you a dirty commie.

:P

And poorly run private companies get gobbled up by bigger companies at firesale prices.
And those bigger companies become monopolies, which are inherently anti-competitive, unless appropriately regulated by an honestand competent government.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3457 on: August 11, 2020, 05:01:27 PM »
I can't wait to be outraged by what Trump has to say about Kamala Harris being selected as Biden's VP!  I was already outraged that Trump thinks it's a sign of weakness to have specified a woman as a running mate :)

We'll see his true colors,
Shining through.
And that's why we hate him.

True colors, like a monochrome printer stuck on repeat...


Doesn't scan very well...

Will that didn’t take long. Trump has already called Harris a liar, nasty and disrespectful.
He again called Warren “Pocahontas” and said Harris was “Nastier” to Biden than Warren

Gee...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3458 on: August 11, 2020, 05:14:46 PM »
I'm going to try to avoid most of Trump's election nastiness, I'm sure I will hear about some of it anyway.  Not my election, not in my circle of control.

Bateaux

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3459 on: August 11, 2020, 06:17:11 PM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3460 on: August 12, 2020, 04:17:57 AM »
Also, the US deficit for 2020 is literally off the charts compared to historical deficits - 3.7 Trillion and counting (Trump and Congress are trying to get anywhere from another 1 - 3 Trillion approved)...

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335#:~:text=For%20fiscal%20year%202020%2C%20CBO's,end%20of%20the%20fiscal%20year.

Deficit spending to recover from some national crisis (the Great Recession, COVID-19) is perfectly normal and in fact what is supposed to happen.

The thing is that this money is supposed to use existing, in the crisis not running, production capabilities in the companies. (And as long as this happens, there is no inflation according to Modern Monetary Theory, which makes sense imho.)
But while this happens in part (buying food), it does not happen for more or less whole branches (like tourism).
People are not not buying because they have no money (primarily) but because it has become impossible or too stressy to do that.

I really have no idea what the result of that will be. Will it continue to be a stock price fueling towards a bubble? High Inflation?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3461 on: August 12, 2020, 06:09:31 AM »
Synospis:  Eisenhower was the last GOP president to consistently reduce the federal debt, and this was largely the result of a huge economic expansion.
JFK/LBJ, Carter and Clinton also left office with a lower Debt than when they took office. Reagan, Bush Sr, 'W' and Obama all presided over an expanding debt-to-GDP ratio.

Right, and for Obama in particular his main job was to get the country out of the worst recession we've seen since the Great Depression, which is precisely when the government is supposed to be deficit spending. So he did, and it worked. And notice the difference in slope between his first few years and the last few years.

Democrats are the only "fiscally responsible" party, period. Republicans have an explicitly stated goal to intentionally induce a debt crisis in order to provide political cover to starve the beast and destroy popular programs like Social Security. You want a government that attempts to actually function and not run itself bankrupt? Vote Democratic. You want intentional mismanagement of government finances and agencies with the end goal of destroying the government itself? Vote Republican.

There are no fiscally responsible politicians.

Everyone in government wants more government. They just have different people they funnel the money to.

Or maybe--just hear me out--the Federal debt doesn't actually matter as long as the bond market supports it?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3462 on: August 12, 2020, 06:45:08 AM »
Synospis:  Eisenhower was the last GOP president to consistently reduce the federal debt, and this was largely the result of a huge economic expansion.
JFK/LBJ, Carter and Clinton also left office with a lower Debt than when they took office. Reagan, Bush Sr, 'W' and Obama all presided over an expanding debt-to-GDP ratio.

Right, and for Obama in particular his main job was to get the country out of the worst recession we've seen since the Great Depression, which is precisely when the government is supposed to be deficit spending. So he did, and it worked. And notice the difference in slope between his first few years and the last few years.

Democrats are the only "fiscally responsible" party, period. Republicans have an explicitly stated goal to intentionally induce a debt crisis in order to provide political cover to starve the beast and destroy popular programs like Social Security. You want a government that attempts to actually function and not run itself bankrupt? Vote Democratic. You want intentional mismanagement of government finances and agencies with the end goal of destroying the government itself? Vote Republican.

There are no fiscally responsible politicians.

Everyone in government wants more government. They just have different people they funnel the money to.

Or maybe--just hear me out--the Federal debt doesn't actually matter as long as the bond market supports it?

To paraphrase another economist: National debt doesn't matter, until it does. 

It's never been the catastrophic issue in the US that many have claimed it would become... yet. Fiat Currency and support from the bond market undoubtedly have helped.  IT has been an issue for other countries with smaller economies, but generally only when the debt-to-GDP has been well north of 1.


Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3463 on: August 12, 2020, 09:07:23 AM »
I started off this morning reading a bunch of Trump nastiness concerning his rivals and former supporters. Mostly outright lies and projecting. Can't imagine why this guy gets any support at all.

The Heather Cox Richardson newsletter was good this morn.

So curious - will the gov't focus on reducing the deficit after COVID is under control and people are back to work? Regardless of who is president? I'd like to think there are clearer minds at work behind the scenes...

I expect the moment the Dems discuss this topic the GOP will go to hand wringing about catestrophic higher taxes which won't make that much difference to the average working person. Sure, the multi-millionaires and billionaires will see a larger tax bill but they have more loop holes to rely on too.

Would like to think that our gov't will reset the clock on spending and taxes after the emergency has passed so they are prepared for the next unexpected event. 

caracarn

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3464 on: August 12, 2020, 09:32:54 AM »
I can't wait to be outraged by what Trump has to say about Kamala Harris being selected as Biden's VP!  I was already outraged that Trump thinks it's a sign of weakness to have specified a woman as a running mate :)
I strongly hope you will channel that outrage, given where you live, and share it with all your friends and swing Texas to blue this year.  Would be wonderful to be rid of this dumpster fire.

caracarn

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3465 on: August 12, 2020, 09:34:33 AM »
I started off this morning reading a bunch of Trump nastiness concerning his rivals and former supporters. Mostly outright lies and projecting. Can't imagine why this guy gets any support at all.

The Heather Cox Richardson newsletter was good this morn.

So curious - will the gov't focus on reducing the deficit after COVID is under control and people are back to work? Regardless of who is president? I'd like to think there are clearer minds at work behind the scenes...

I expect the moment the Dems discuss this topic the GOP will go to hand wringing about catestrophic higher taxes which won't make that much difference to the average working person. Sure, the multi-millionaires and billionaires will see a larger tax bill but they have more loop holes to rely on too.

Would like to think that our gov't will reset the clock on spending and taxes after the emergency has passed so they are prepared for the next unexpected event.
One can only hope.  As the days count down I get more and more optimistic. 

Barbaebigode

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3466 on: August 12, 2020, 10:29:09 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3467 on: August 12, 2020, 10:39:23 AM »
I started off this morning reading a bunch of Trump nastiness concerning his rivals and former supporters. Mostly outright lies and projecting. Can't imagine why this guy gets any support at all.

The Heather Cox Richardson newsletter was good this morn.

So curious - will the gov't focus on reducing the deficit after COVID is under control and people are back to work? Regardless of who is president? I'd like to think there are clearer minds at work behind the scenes...

I expect the moment the Dems discuss this topic the GOP will go to hand wringing about catestrophic higher taxes which won't make that much difference to the average working person. Sure, the multi-millionaires and billionaires will see a larger tax bill but they have more loop holes to rely on too.

Would like to think that our gov't will reset the clock on spending and taxes after the emergency has passed so they are prepared for the next unexpected event.
No. If the government reduces debt, that would hurt the rich.
A country's debt service is paid by all (indirectly through higher taxes and lower servieces), but paid to a lot smaller circle

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3468 on: August 12, 2020, 10:40:23 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3469 on: August 12, 2020, 10:58:17 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3470 on: August 12, 2020, 10:59:33 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3471 on: August 12, 2020, 11:02:35 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

I get it now.  I thought you were thinking of statutes of limitation.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3472 on: August 12, 2020, 11:08:45 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

I get it now.  I thought you were thinking of statutes of limitation.
No.  And for what it's worth, one typically cannot run out the statute of limitations by throwing legal challenges at the prosecution.  Everytime you appeal, file a motion, etc. the clock stops until a ruling is made.  That's why people occasionally go to jail for financial crimes decades later even if there's a 7 years statute.

There's an interesting argument among my lawyer-friends that Trump's claim of "blanket immunity while President" will come back to bite him in the ass, as it effectively could be used to prosecute any crimes as if it were 2016 once Trump is out of office (i.e. the clock has stopped).

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3473 on: August 12, 2020, 11:11:48 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

I get it now.  I thought you were thinking of statutes of limitation.

Worst case scenario, Russia will always welcome home their favorite operative.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3474 on: August 12, 2020, 11:15:29 AM »
Why would Putin help Trump once Trump was no longer President? He didn't let Trump Tower Moscow continue after Trump was elected.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3475 on: August 12, 2020, 11:17:34 AM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

I get it now.  I thought you were thinking of statutes of limitation.

Worst case scenario, Russia will always welcome home their favorite operative.

This assumes that Trump has the political tact to be an meek toady for Putin for the rest of his life.
One light-night twitter storm could be disasterous for him - Putin's critics have a tendency to wind up dead.

Like @talltexan I don't see what's in it for Putin.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3476 on: August 12, 2020, 11:18:08 AM »
Why would Putin help Trump once Trump was no longer President? He didn't let Trump Tower Moscow continue after Trump was elected.

Yeah, seems like the type who would just giggle if Trump found himself in hot water.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3477 on: August 12, 2020, 11:20:29 AM »
Why would Putin help Trump once Trump was no longer President? He didn't let Trump Tower Moscow continue after Trump was elected.

Yeah, seems like the type who would just giggle if Trump found himself in hot water.

i think you are confusing Putin with Dr. Evil again...

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3478 on: August 12, 2020, 11:44:58 AM »
It all depends on how you think the relationship with Russia is constructed.

I've never thought Trump saw himself as taking orders from Putin or his agents. Rather, his organization engaged with a series of meetings with Russian developers, who make statements resembling, "Putin will think this is great, and his approval is ultimately required for a Trump Tower Moscow project."

Then Trump wins the WH, enabling F2F meetings, and Putin makes vague statements like, "I imagine XXX is a real problem for you", and "These journalists are the ones who hate you so much", perhaps with suggestions including, "It's obvious Merkel doesn't realize how important it is to be energy-friendly with her policies" or "The Kurds don't have the business skill to make as much money off of these oil fields as Rick Perry", all the while hinting that TTM will still happen, but obviously the media environment wouldn't permit it while Trump occupies the WH. Always dangling the carrot just out of reach.

Most importantly, that carrot is perceived (by Trump) as more important than expending his own political capital towards perpetuating American norms or traditions

Guys like Trump don't take orders, and guys like Putin know exactly how to manipulate wealthy assholes who fancy themselves as above taking orders.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3479 on: August 12, 2020, 12:00:22 PM »
Former White House occupant Trump, is gonna hate having a prosecutor one heartbeat from being president.

I wonder if Trump loses, if we're going to see the first ex US president receiving asylum in a foreign country.

Asylum from persecution of previous crimes?  Guess that depends on i) what he did and ii) how aggressively the still-hypthetical Biden administration (and State AGs) decide to pursue cases.  Biden has gone on record to say that he will neither instruct nor hinder efforts of the DOJ to investigate alleged crimes, that he'll let the AG act with it's pre-Trump independence from the executive office.

If I had to guess, I think Trump will just run out his own clock with various legal maneuvers. That's been his enduring strategy for 40+ years -- gum up the works and hope it either goes away or is settled decades later.

Or he dies first.  He's younger than some of my friends, but he really doesn't look healthy lately.

That was my implication (see bolded)

I get it now.  I thought you were thinking of statutes of limitation.

Worst case scenario, Russia will always welcome home their favorite operative.

This assumes that Trump has the political tact to be an meek toady for Putin for the rest of his life.
One light-night twitter storm could be disasterous for him - Putin's critics have a tendency to wind up dead.

Like @talltexan I don't see what's in it for Putin.

I honestly think Putin would do it just to thumb his nose at the US.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3480 on: August 13, 2020, 04:18:42 AM »
Why would Putin help Trump once Trump was no longer President? He didn't let Trump Tower Moscow continue after Trump was elected.
For fun.

Also you don't let a good asset go to waste.

Admittedly at the moment Putin might regret it a bit with all that Nord Stream 2 thing going on...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3481 on: August 13, 2020, 05:37:02 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3482 on: August 13, 2020, 06:41:21 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3483 on: August 13, 2020, 07:39:42 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

I keep seeing headlines like "Trump endorses X despite their Qanon connection" DESPITE?! More like due to.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3484 on: August 13, 2020, 07:41:31 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.

True.  The chain was started long ago, but from where I sit Trump has accelerated their production.

I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3485 on: August 13, 2020, 08:13:11 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

What is your problem, exactly?

I have found Trump to be an remarkebly - I think the best - indicator for judging people I don't know.
The bigger Trumps praise, the more disgusting the person. People he disgusts are instant candidate for my friend list.

He is more reliable than a compass! You just need to remember that North and South are switched.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3486 on: August 13, 2020, 08:13:45 AM »
I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

No worries. Gerrymandering and voter suppression are still around.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3487 on: August 13, 2020, 08:26:26 AM »
I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

No worries. Gerrymandering and voter suppression are still around.

Yep. And when those fail, cripple the US postal service.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3488 on: August 13, 2020, 08:43:53 AM »
I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

No worries. Gerrymandering and voter suppression are still around.

Yep. And when those fail, cripple the US postal service.

As outrageous as those actions are, there are limitations on their effectiveness and they are short-term plugs.  There was still a 'blue-wave' in 2018, adn 2020 is shaping up to another washout.  By relying on them the GOP is avoiding the deeper fixes necessary (see "2012 GOP Autopsy). 

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3489 on: August 13, 2020, 09:53:16 AM »
I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

No worries. Gerrymandering and voter suppression are still around.

Yep. And when those fail, cripple the US postal service.

As outrageous as those actions are, there are limitations on their effectiveness and they are short-term plugs.  There was still a 'blue-wave' in 2018, adn 2020 is shaping up to another washout.  By relying on them the GOP is avoiding the deeper fixes necessary (see "2012 GOP Autopsy).

Yes, I do understand that. As a Latina, trained scientist, and atheist, there is no place for me in the GOP and I don't foresee that changing in the next 20 years (to pick a random interval), assuming that the party doesn't simply implode.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3490 on: August 13, 2020, 10:16:07 AM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.
Yep, all he is doing is pulling them out of the sand for all to see. Has anyone been listening to any of the interviews with Stuart Stevens? He is a little later than Kevin Phillips to realize what a shit show they built with the southern strategy, but damning commentary nonetheless.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3491 on: August 13, 2020, 10:24:16 AM »
Quote
But I don't think anyone believes that the current stimulus negotiations were about helping people. Dems want bail outs for poorly run states and Reps want liability protection to protect businesses. 

Strangely that it is always Dems (lefts) trying to save poorly run public institutions, but never ever Republicans (right wingers) wanting to bail out poorly run private companies with tax payer money.

That's because private companies can do no wrong.  Free market, capitalism, pull yourself by your own boot straps, etc.  Any argument to the contrary makes you a dirty commie.

:P

And poorly run private companies get gobbled up by bigger companies at firesale prices.
And those bigger companies become monopolies, which are inherently anti-competitive, unless appropriately regulated by an honestand competent government.

I think government should use antitrust powers more than they do. The benefits of capitalism come because of competition and I think government should take more of a role to make sure that competition is happening.

Planet Money did what I think is a good 3 part series on antitrust usage throughout US history. I grew up in Canada, so I'm generally pretty ignorant of US history (probably going to try to learn more as my kids go through schooling here / preparing for a citizenship test in the next few years). But I thought it was interesting to see how attitudes have changed over time.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/15/695131832/antitrust-1-standard-oil
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/20/696342011/antitrust-2-the-paradox
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/22/697170790/antitrust-3-big-tech

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3492 on: August 13, 2020, 12:37:55 PM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.

True.  The chain was started long ago, but from where I sit Trump has accelerated their production.

I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

I'm pretty sure Trump did better among Hispanic voters than Romney (this is 2016 versus 2012).

People talk as if Latinos are a reliable Democratic constituency, but they're not. Many of them are practicing catholics, and find the evangelical positions on abortion and gay marriage are closer to what they believe. Many of them run small businesses, which made them suspicious of Obamacare. And plenty of them have Cuban or Venezuelan ancestors, meaning the word "Socialism" spooks them readily. It's going to be very difficult for Biden to flip Florida.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3493 on: August 13, 2020, 12:46:43 PM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.

True.  The chain was started long ago, but from where I sit Trump has accelerated their production.

I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

I'm pretty sure Trump did better among Hispanic voters than Romney (this is 2016 versus 2012).

People talk as if Latinos are a reliable Democratic constituency, but they're not. Many of them are practicing catholics, and find the evangelical positions on abortion and gay marriage are closer to what they believe. Many of them run small businesses, which made them suspicious of Obamacare. And plenty of them have Cuban or Venezuelan ancestors, meaning the word "Socialism" spooks them readily. It's going to be very difficult for Biden to flip Florida.

Romney did terrible with the latinx community, but Trump was only marginally better.  Just a few years earlier though W. won (IIRC) just over half their votes.

Agree that its one demographic that doesn't fit nicely into the Democratic party -- overwhelmingly catholic, typically more conservative, etc.  It should be one of the strongest blocs the GOP can draw on.  ... But then there's Trump's contant racist BS comments to drive them away.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3494 on: August 13, 2020, 12:57:41 PM »
A racist conspiracy monger (Greene) won her primary in Georgia.  Last night Trump tweeted support for her, calling her a “rising Republican star” and a “real WINNER”.

Just another link forged by Trump chaining the GOP to a bunch of white racists.

Oh, it isn't just Trump. Those links were forged long before him.

True.  The chain was started long ago, but from where I sit Trump has accelerated their production.

I have a very hard time seeing how the GOP might 'win back' non-White voters in the decade(s) to come.  This is going to be problematic as the country becomes increasingly diverse.

I'm pretty sure Trump did better among Hispanic voters than Romney (this is 2016 versus 2012).

People talk as if Latinos are a reliable Democratic constituency, but they're not. Many of them are practicing catholics, and find the evangelical positions on abortion and gay marriage are closer to what they believe. Many of them run small businesses, which made them suspicious of Obamacare. And plenty of them have Cuban or Venezuelan ancestors, meaning the word "Socialism" spooks them readily. It's going to be very difficult for Biden to flip Florida.

Romney did terrible with the latinx community, but Trump was only marginally better.  Just a few years earlier though W. won (IIRC) just over half their votes.

Agree that its one demographic that doesn't fit nicely into the Democratic party -- overwhelmingly catholic, typically more conservative, etc.  It should be one of the strongest blocs the GOP can draw on.  ... But then there's Trump's contant racist BS comments to drive them away.

Maybe if they'd just stop being rapists and murderers . . . and finally cough up the dough for the wall he'd embrace them.  :P

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3495 on: August 13, 2020, 01:53:06 PM »
Trump keeps saying the quiet part out loud:

Today on Fox Trump said outright that he is blocking US Postal funds because Democrats want to expand mail-in voting.

"Now, they need that money in order to make the post office work, so it can take all these millions and millions of ballots" Trump said in an interview with Fox. "now, if we don't make a deal, that means they don't get the money."

Our president has just everyone he won't give the postal service the money that its own Board of Governors says it needs because it would allow more people to vote by mail during a pandemic.



OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3496 on: August 13, 2020, 01:58:40 PM »
Trump keeps saying the quiet part out loud:

Today on Fox Trump said outright that he is blocking US Postal funds because Democrats want to expand mail-in voting.

"Now, they need that money in order to make the post office work, so it can take all these millions and millions of ballots" Trump said in an interview with Fox. "now, if we don't make a deal, that means they don't get the money."

Our president has just everyone he won't give the postal service the money that its own Board of Governors says it needs because it would allow more people to vote by mail during a pandemic.

Yep. I volunteer heavily in an organization focused on voter service and education. One of our top priorities this fall is to tell people not to mail their ballots but instead drop them off in person at their clerk's office/in the designated dropbox. We also need to get out information about what to do if your requested absentee ballot never shows up because of the mail slowdown, since that definitely happened to some voters this summer.

Trump is such a petty, dishonest, small-minded, anti-American piece of shit.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3497 on: August 13, 2020, 02:43:05 PM »
I think people are waking up to realize just how many things having a reliable USPS enables.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3498 on: August 13, 2020, 02:50:21 PM »
Trump is such a petty, dishonest, small-minded, anti-American piece of shit.

Yep.

With a 91% Republican approval rating, he certainly appears to stand for everything Republicans like.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #3499 on: August 13, 2020, 02:58:20 PM »
Trump is such a petty, dishonest, small-minded, anti-American piece of shit.

Yep.

With a 91% Republican approval rating, he certainly appears to stand for everything Republicans like.

In all cases, if it looks like an anti-American piece of shit, walks like an anti-American piece of shit, talks like an anti-American piece of shit...