Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 302973 times)

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #300 on: December 03, 2019, 01:09:47 PM »
I learned English grammar in elementary school but that school taught no writing. Then in public high school I learned all writing and no grammar. But like you say, it really took learning another language to teach me grammar and then infer back grammar in my own language.

There are things thou to that don’t translate directly. Like the subjunctive (“it is necessary that I be on time”) tense that almost doesn’t exist in English, or countable and non-countable words that don’t exist in French (“less” vs. “fewer”).

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #301 on: December 03, 2019, 01:36:34 PM »
Imagine how awesome "Would that my wife were ready on time!" could sound!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:39:08 PM by talltexan »

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #302 on: December 03, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »
:)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #303 on: December 03, 2019, 03:03:23 PM »

But above and beyond that, I am serious about Macron v. Trump. Macron's sentence structure, grasp of vocabulary, ability to express complex concepts, etc. in English are all superior to Trump's. The only thing Trump has that Macron doesn't is a native accent.
Oh, no arguments there.  As for Trump's accent - he's got a Queen's accent.  Not known for being the most desireable, and infamous for improper contractions and their own hard-to-decipher slang ('e.g. 'ain't', 'gonna', 'yooz', 'bigly')

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #304 on: December 03, 2019, 04:24:19 PM »
Mastering a language involves a lot of listening to other people and observing rules, rather than willfully ignoring both in favour of one's inner animal/monster/child.  No surprise there.

On a related note, there was this article:  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/christian-right-worships-donald-trump-915381/.  Seems like as long as the right is able to hold its collective nose, band together, and form a united front, it will prevail.  Actual critical thinking has fragmented the opposition to the point that there is no possibility for a cohesive alternative platform.


RangerOne

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #305 on: December 03, 2019, 05:49:56 PM »
Mastering a language involves a lot of listening to other people and observing rules, rather than willfully ignoring both in favour of one's inner animal/monster/child.  No surprise there.

On a related note, there was this article:  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/christian-right-worships-donald-trump-915381/.  Seems like as long as the right is able to hold its collective nose, band together, and form a united front, it will prevail.  Actual critical thinking has fragmented the opposition to the point that there is no possibility for a cohesive alternative platform.

Who prevails is entirely going to be based on turnout. There are plenty of half motivated voters that can easily swing an election. But yeah nothing in the news right now is going to convince most Repub voters to switch sides. And yes many praise him for getting their supreme court justices and finally delivering some wins on things like the abortion front. Its the whole coastal elite versus middle America for most of them and they have been trained to believe all media is as biased and fox and friends but in favor of liberal politics...

The "thoughtful" republicans/conservatives and libertarians are a rare bread who just happen to think suffering DT is better than lefty politician proposing socialist policies.

Not much we can do about that other than to remember that the stupidity of the general population is just as likely to hurt us a cabal of powerful people.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #306 on: December 04, 2019, 04:40:29 AM »
Mastering a language involves a lot of listening to other people and observing rules, rather than willfully ignoring both in favour of one's inner animal/monster/child.  No surprise there.

On a related note, there was this article:  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/christian-right-worships-donald-trump-915381/.  Seems like as long as the right is able to hold its collective nose, band together, and form a united front, it will prevail.  Actual critical thinking has fragmented the opposition to the point that there is no possibility for a cohesive alternative platform.

The article is a bunch of lazy thinking designed to generate clicks by declaring an unpopular outcome is inevitable - despite any deep analysis or historical context.
Counterpoint 1: this "fragmentation among the Dems is to be expected during a primary.  Regardless of who wins the nomination the party will coalesce around that canidate.  Remember the GOP had 20-something candidates as well, and few liked Trump (and many intensely disliked him within the party) several months before Iowa/NH.
Counterpoint 2: DJT won the electoral college with the narrowist of margins, and lost the popular vote.  That's where he starts from.  He will need as much or more support this time around, and he's been underwater consistently (read: less popular) than he was when we was elected, which brings us to
Counterpoint 3: Turnout.  Like RangerOne said - what will ultimately matter is who votes.  DJT's fans are not enough.  Even the entirety of the GOP is not enough, given their share of the elctorate and ho they already vote in high numbers, so there isn't much more to be gained there.  What will matter is how many non-registered R's show up to vote.  In election after election we've seen sky-high turnout (for non-presidential races) on both sides, and GOP candidates in trouble in regions that should not even be competitive.

DJT won because HRC did not excite non-Republicans enough to vote.  DJT himself won roughly the same number of votes as Romney & McCain as a share of the total electorate.  Can I Dem have more support than HRC when running against DJT?  I tend to think it's very possible.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #307 on: December 04, 2019, 04:42:23 AM »
Not much we can do about that other than to remember that the stupidity of the general population is -
You were doing reasonably well until then. So let's discuss stupidity.

Remember that the difference between ignorant and stupid is that the ignorant do not know, while the stupid are unable to learn. One proof of ignorance is making a mistake, one proof of stupidity is repeating the same mistake.

If a voter is undecided, one of the two candidates or their supporters calling them stupid is a fairly good way to persuade them to vote for the other who didn't insult them. This is a particularly important factor in a country with voluntary voting on a workday - make people angry and they're more likely to get out and vote.

Now take your assignment back and rewrite it without insulting the people whose vote you'd like to secure. Don't repeat Clinton's mistake.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #308 on: December 04, 2019, 07:05:32 AM »
If Trump had lost--and, let's face it, if he'd lost we'd be talking about how African Americans saved the country for the Democrats--would we be pointing to his "Your schools are failing, your communities are crime-ridden, what have you got to lose [by voting for me]" speech to black churches the way you're pointing to Clinton's "Basket of Deplorables" comment?

I think you can pick and choose insulting comments like this after the fact without there really being proof that the comments caused anything other than making Republican voters feel like they did the right thing years earlier when they chose to be Republican voters.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #309 on: December 04, 2019, 07:07:51 AM »
Not much we can do about that other than to remember that the stupidity of the general population is -
You were doing reasonably well until then. So let's discuss stupidity.

Remember that the difference between ignorant and stupid is that the ignorant do not know, while the stupid are unable to learn. One proof of ignorance is making a mistake, one proof of stupidity is repeating the same mistake.

If a voter is undecided, one of the two candidates or their supporters calling them stupid is a fairly good way to persuade them to vote for the other who didn't insult them. This is a particularly important factor in a country with voluntary voting on a workday - make people angry and they're more likely to get out and vote.

Now take your assignment back and rewrite it without insulting the people whose vote you'd like to secure. Don't repeat Clinton's mistake.

You know, I used to think this was silly, but now I'm thinking the voters you're talking about are just stupid enough to be predictably manipulated by being called stupid to their faces.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #310 on: December 04, 2019, 07:55:47 AM »
you don't have to manipulate all of them, just some of them.

Both parties start with a base, and they need to secure a few more votes above that to win.



nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #313 on: December 04, 2019, 09:45:32 AM »
To be fair, I don't condone leaders of any country mocking another elected leader.  I'm against it when Trump does it, and I'm against it when others do it about Trump.

The difference here seems to be this was a 'hot mike' episode and not intended to be made public, whereas Trump routinely mocks and belittles other leaders on Twitter and in televised remarks.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #314 on: December 04, 2019, 10:11:30 AM »
Where exactly was the mocking?  I could only find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN07vQT-MLs

Johnson - Is that why you were late?
Trudeau - He was late because he takes a 40 minute press conference off the top
something unintelligible
Trudeau - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.  You just watched his team's jaws drop to the floor.

What mocking are we supposed to get outraged about?


Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #316 on: December 04, 2019, 10:50:20 AM »
Poor little Trump got his fee-fees hurt.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/trump-abruptly-cancels-nato-news-conference-after-tense-exchanges-with-world-leaders-075220?fbclid=IwAR21qbhip5_5uL_m1OBplflA2giSNSK4YRpEYNcM8SVJ_FhUj_RELGMgCGU

He’s such a spoiled child.

Not to mention a coward. Notice he feels free to say insulting things about other leaders whenever the mood hits him... but he never has the guts to do it to their faces.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #317 on: December 04, 2019, 10:53:35 AM »
Poor little Trump got his fee-fees hurt.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/trump-abruptly-cancels-nato-news-conference-after-tense-exchanges-with-world-leaders-075220?fbclid=IwAR21qbhip5_5uL_m1OBplflA2giSNSK4YRpEYNcM8SVJ_FhUj_RELGMgCGU

He’s such a spoiled child.

Not to mention a coward. Notice he feels free to say insulting things about other leaders whenever the mood hits him... but he never has the guts to do it to their faces.

Yeah, I rarely come across adults with such thin skins and high levels of cowardice. It’s disturbing.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #318 on: December 04, 2019, 08:07:02 PM »
The latest Trump outrage of the hour is cutting 700,000 people from the federal food-stamp program by strictly enforcing federal work requirements.
In the meantime multiple billions of dollars are going to farmers, but mostly really to corporations that are growing commodity crops, to purportedly assist with harm from the trade tariffs. According the Senator Debbie Stabenow, most of this farm aid is not even helping farmers in the Midwest who were hurt the most by the tariffs.

Hundreds of Thousands Are Losing Access to Food Stamps https://nyti.ms/2DJmKyq
"The department has also proposed a rule that would close what it calls a loophole that allows people with incomes up to 200 percent of the poverty level — about $50,000 for a family of four — to receive food stamps. The rule would also prevent households with more than $2,250 in assets, or $3,500 for a household with a disabled adult, from receiving food stamps. Those changes would strip nearly three million people of their benefits, the department said, and nearly one million children would lose automatic eligibility for free or reduced-price school meals."

"Without a waiver, able-bodied adults without children must work or participate in a work program for 20 hours or more a week to qualify for food stamps. That requirement can be difficult for people who are already homeless or have transportation issues, some poverty experts said, especially for low-wage workers who often are not offered 20 hours a week of steady work.
The rule also prevents states from defining what constitutes an “area” of economic distress. Instead, states must rely on waivers for labor market areas defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Anti-poverty experts say this will most likely make it difficult for cities surrounded by affluent counties, such as Detroit, to receive the waiver."

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #319 on: December 05, 2019, 04:58:00 AM »
The latest Trump outrage of the hour is cutting 700,000 people from the federal food-stamp program by strictly enforcing federal work requirements.
In the meantime multiple billions of dollars are going to farmers, but mostly really to corporations that are growing commodity crops, to purportedly assist with harm from the trade tariffs.

These are actually both strong GOP positions.  R's have long wanted to cut the social safety net (being poor is a moral failing goes the logic and you must prove your worth to society before getting handouts). Farmers are a core part of their rural base

My guess is he's doing this now to bolster Republican support:
"Hey, even though he says and does things we can't condone, he passed a tax cut, nominated conservative judges and is cutting the social safety net..."

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #320 on: December 05, 2019, 07:14:46 AM »
Yeah, this is one of those places where I'm conflicted: they interviewed a man on NPR this morning who basically admitted that the Food Stamps mean a lot of the jobs he could get just aren't worth it. I feel for children in these SNAP families, though.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #321 on: December 05, 2019, 07:41:02 AM »
Where exactly was the mocking?  I could only find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN07vQT-MLs

Johnson - Is that why you were late?
Trudeau - He was late because he takes a 40 minute press conference off the top
something unintelligible
Trudeau - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.  You just watched his team's jaws drop to the floor.

What mocking are we supposed to get outraged about?
Right, I wonder where the "mocking" part happened?  To me it seems like an incredulous telling of a true story.  Maybe Trudeau is responding to one them who asked if Trump really said one of the things he said.  Maybe repeating what Trump says is actually mocking him?  I could believe that.

The footage of Trump calling Trueau two faced is incredible.  He says "two-faced" and you can almost see how happy it makes him to insult someone.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #322 on: December 05, 2019, 09:10:34 AM »
Yeah, this is one of those places where I'm conflicted: they interviewed a man on NPR this morning who basically admitted that the Food Stamps mean a lot of the jobs he could get just aren't worth it. I feel for children in these SNAP families, though.

This is the problem that I have with work requirements, as well as our very low minimum wage standards.  There is a large(ish) segment of our population that genuinely needs assistance, but these work requirements either disqualify them or give them a poisoned-choice (work an unstable low-paying job and lose benefits, or don't work but be beholden to welfare).  Raising the federal minimum wage would address these problems, but create others and is a non-starter in many political regions.

NOT providing assistance to people in need seems like both a moral and governmental failing to me.  One of the core things a civilized society should do is help others within its society.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #323 on: December 05, 2019, 03:33:56 PM »
Where exactly was the mocking?  I could only find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN07vQT-MLs

Johnson - Is that why you were late?
Trudeau - He was late because he takes a 40 minute press conference off the top
something unintelligible
Trudeau - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.  You just watched his team's jaws drop to the floor.

What mocking are we supposed to get outraged about?
Right, I wonder where the "mocking" part happened?  To me it seems like an incredulous telling of a true story.  Maybe Trudeau is responding to one them who asked if Trump really said one of the things he said.  Maybe repeating what Trump says is actually mocking him?  I could believe that.

The footage of Trump calling Trueau two faced is incredible.  He says "two-faced" and you can almost see how happy it makes him to insult someone.

Joe Biden thinks it was mocking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rogC3M4nZA

He thinks the world is laughing at the US.   

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #324 on: December 05, 2019, 03:57:41 PM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #325 on: December 05, 2019, 03:58:06 PM »
Where exactly was the mocking?  I could only find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN07vQT-MLs

Johnson - Is that why you were late?
Trudeau - He was late because he takes a 40 minute press conference off the top
something unintelligible
Trudeau - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.  You just watched his team's jaws drop to the floor.

What mocking are we supposed to get outraged about?
Right, I wonder where the "mocking" part happened?  To me it seems like an incredulous telling of a true story.  Maybe Trudeau is responding to one them who asked if Trump really said one of the things he said.  Maybe repeating what Trump says is actually mocking him?  I could believe that.

The footage of Trump calling Trueau two faced is incredible.  He says "two-faced" and you can almost see how happy it makes him to insult someone.

Joe Biden thinks it was mocking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rogC3M4nZA

He thinks the world is laughing at the US.

I can't say I blame them. The GOP has turned our government into a joke.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #326 on: December 05, 2019, 04:47:26 PM »
Yeah, this is one of those places where I'm conflicted: they interviewed a man on NPR this morning who basically admitted that the Food Stamps mean a lot of the jobs he could get just aren't worth it. I feel for children in these SNAP families, though.

This is the problem that I have with work requirements, as well as our very low minimum wage standards.  There is a large(ish) segment of our population that genuinely needs assistance, but these work requirements either disqualify them or give them a poisoned-choice (work an unstable low-paying job and lose benefits, or don't work but be beholden to welfare).  Raising the federal minimum wage would address these problems, but create others and is a non-starter in many political regions.

Yep. I had Section 8 tenants who had to keep their part-time jobs on the down low in order to avoid losing their benefits. It's not like they were rolling in money and buying Cadillacs but an extra $120/week goes a long way when you're a single mother on assistance.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #327 on: December 06, 2019, 07:23:05 AM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

(Reminder: I am a registered Republican, but the committed #nevertrumper who started this thread)

The mocking really bothers me. Trudeau wants to mock Trump? His whole country has an economy about the size of Texas? Johnson mocking Trump? Have you seen what a hash he's made of things by basically expelling a dozen MP's from his own party for not voting for Brexit? Macron seems good and thoughtful, but--here's the rub--he'd never held an elected office in France before he was elected to be their PM.

The United States is the indispensable party in NATO. Perhaps it was unwise for us to elect Trump, but the other members should attempt to engage with our country in good faith.

Many people here may have been hoping that these world leaders would tell Trump he's an idiot to his face because it doesn't seem to be happening enough here within our domestic politics, but this is no victory for truth-seeking, constitution-abiding Americans.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #328 on: December 06, 2019, 07:53:19 AM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

(Reminder: I am a registered Republican, but the committed #nevertrumper who started this thread)

The mocking really bothers me. Trudeau wants to mock Trump? His whole country has an economy about the size of Texas? Johnson mocking Trump? Have you seen what a hash he's made of things by basically expelling a dozen MP's from his own party for not voting for Brexit? Macron seems good and thoughtful, but--here's the rub--he'd never held an elected office in France before he was elected to be their PM.

I know we've been told that they were mocking Trump . . . but I actually posted the comments in question above.  Can you highlight the mocking that you thought was most unacceptable, and exactly why it was so unacceptable?


The United States is the indispensable party in NATO. Perhaps it was unwise for us to elect Trump, but the other members should attempt to engage with our country in good faith.

Donald Trump has not engaged with other countries in good faith pretty much since he entered office.  Despite multiple world leaders (including Trudeau and Macron) going out of their way to reach out directly to the president.  Your contention here appears to be that because the US is an indispensable party in NATO, Trump should be allowed to act in any manner towards other countries and world leaders without consequences . . . is that correct?


Many people here may have been hoping that these world leaders would tell Trump he's an idiot to his face because it doesn't seem to be happening enough here within our domestic politics, but this is no victory for truth-seeking, constitution-abiding Americans.

Trump is an idiot. I don't care if world leaders tell Trump the truth or not.  My hope is simply that he stops acting like an idiot on the world stage.  (This would incidentally help to return the US to non-laughingstock status.)

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #329 on: December 06, 2019, 07:55:57 AM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

The United States is the indispensable party in NATO. Perhaps it was unwise for us to elect Trump, but the other members should attempt to engage with our country in good faith.

As far as I can tell they have been trying this for the last 3 years and it has produced absolutely nothing.  Trump's international "policy" has been even more erratic and destructive than his home policies.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #330 on: December 06, 2019, 08:06:48 AM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

(Reminder: I am a registered Republican, but the committed #nevertrumper who started this thread)

The mocking really bothers me. Trudeau wants to mock Trump? His whole country has an economy about the size of Texas? Johnson mocking Trump? Have you seen what a hash he's made of things by basically expelling a dozen MP's from his own party for not voting for Brexit? Macron seems good and thoughtful, but--here's the rub--he'd never held an elected office in France before he was elected to be their PM.

The United States is the indispensable party in NATO. Perhaps it was unwise for us to elect Trump, but the other members should attempt to engage with our country in good faith.

Many people here may have been hoping that these world leaders would tell Trump he's an idiot to his face because it doesn't seem to be happening enough here within our domestic politics, but this is no victory for truth-seeking, constitution-abiding Americans.

None of any of this is a victory. But given that most of us endured far worse mocking and bullying in elementary school, I can’t help but hope that his demonstrably paper-thin skin and complete lack of bravery and personal strength will resonate with people who voted for him because they perceived him as a tough-talking bully who would dominate the world stage. It’s a faint hope, but still there.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #331 on: December 06, 2019, 09:15:12 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #332 on: December 06, 2019, 09:16:09 AM »
The world is laughing at the US.  But not for the alleged 'mocking'.

(Reminder: I am a registered Republican, but the committed #nevertrumper who started this thread)

The mocking really bothers me. Trudeau wants to mock Trump? His whole country has an economy about the size of Texas? Johnson mocking Trump? Have you seen what a hash he's made of things by basically expelling a dozen MP's from his own party for not voting for Brexit? Macron seems good and thoughtful, but--here's the rub--he'd never held an elected office in France before he was elected to be their PM.

I know we've been told that they were mocking Trump . . . but I actually posted the comments in question above.  Can you highlight the mocking that you thought was most unacceptable, and exactly why it was so unacceptable?


The United States is the indispensable party in NATO. Perhaps it was unwise for us to elect Trump, but the other members should attempt to engage with our country in good faith.

Donald Trump has not engaged with other countries in good faith pretty much since he entered office.  Despite multiple world leaders (including Trudeau and Macron) going out of their way to reach out directly to the president.  Your contention here appears to be that because the US is an indispensable party in NATO, Trump should be allowed to act in any manner towards other countries and world leaders without consequences . . . is that correct?


Many people here may have been hoping that these world leaders would tell Trump he's an idiot to his face because it doesn't seem to be happening enough here within our domestic politics, but this is no victory for truth-seeking, constitution-abiding Americans.

Trump is an idiot. I don't care if world leaders tell Trump the truth or not.  My hope is simply that he stops acting like an idiot on the world stage.  (This would incidentally help to return the US to non-laughingstock status.)

Indeed this is legitimate pushback. I'm having trouble locating a compelling video.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #333 on: December 06, 2019, 09:24:52 AM »
I'm having trouble locating a compelling video.

Me too!  We get all these news reports about 'mocking' . . . but on the video it's basically a couple guys bitching that they were delayed by Trump's press conference.  Fake news!

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #334 on: December 06, 2019, 09:32:20 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #335 on: December 06, 2019, 10:00:03 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

Granted, hyperbole is Trump's bread and butter, but it blows my mind that someone who was born into wealth, who inherited over $400 million dollars, who's upper-class status got him out of Vietnam and through multiple upper-echelon schools, who married first an actress and then a (younger) model, and who became POTUS in his first ever foray into public office largely due to having the stars align with the electoral college, his opponent and the shifting global economy - has the audacity to repeat how everything is 'so unfair' to him.

One could make a compelling case that Trump is among the luckiest Americans ever.  Yet to hear him tell it, he's fought adversity and a system rigged against him his entire life.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #336 on: December 06, 2019, 11:28:18 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

I do think society has a deeper problem wherein we no longer accept a President of the opposing political party as legitimate. Trump didn't create this problem.

The GOP in 1992 claimed Clinton was illegitimate because Perot's presence in the race split the support for Bush. Democrats in 2000 claimed that their candidate had actually won, but for the Supreme Court. The GOP in 2008 claimed that Obama was born in Kenya.

If you think Republicans in 2016 would have accepted Hillary Clinton as a rightfully elected President, then--respectfully--where the hell have you been living during the last quarter century?

Again, Trump didn't create this problem. I doubt he will be the last President to have to contend with it.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #337 on: December 06, 2019, 11:37:49 AM »
I think Trump is a legitimate President based on our own laws and constitution, I just think he has been a bad President and his conduct multiple times has been grounds for impeachment and removal.  The fact that Russia interfered to intentionally bolster his candidacy and undermine HRC's is unfair to be sure, but ultimately he won the electoral votes needed to be POTUS.

The 'Obama-is-from-Keyna' thing aways seemed bizarre.  Bush/Gore was statistically a coin flip, and was decided one way a democracy goverened by laws can decide such things (for better or worse).  Clinton winning because of Perot?  Again - that's sometimes how things go with the laws we have; he still won a plurality of votes.  See Canada/UK for examples of the PM being from a party which does not hold the majority.  We might be able to 'solve' 3rd-party spoilers if we went to ranked-choice voting.  While on teh subject, a strong case can be made that Johnson 'spoiled' the election for HRC, taking just enough votes away in several key states.  Doesn't make his presence in the race or the outcome illegitimate.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #338 on: December 06, 2019, 11:46:06 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

I do think society has a deeper problem wherein we no longer accept a President of the opposing political party as legitimate. Trump didn't create this problem.

The GOP in 1992 claimed Clinton was illegitimate because Perot's presence in the race split the support for Bush. Democrats in 2000 claimed that their candidate had actually won, but for the Supreme Court. The GOP in 2008 claimed that Obama was born in Kenya.

If you think Republicans in 2016 would have accepted Hillary Clinton as a rightfully elected President, then--respectfully--where the hell have you been living during the last quarter century?

Again, Trump didn't create this problem. I doubt he will be the last President to have to contend with it.

Not sure what you're getting at here. I agree that it's a problem when citizens don't accept a democratically elected president as legitimate, but that's not what's being discussed. I think OtherJen's point was that every president has to deal with haters and no, that's not going to change, but it doesn't need to. As president he needs to suck it up and do his job anyway. When he doesn't that makes the country look bad.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #339 on: December 06, 2019, 11:49:56 AM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

I do think society has a deeper problem wherein we no longer accept a President of the opposing political party as legitimate. Trump didn't create this problem.

The GOP in 1992 claimed Clinton was illegitimate because Perot's presence in the race split the support for Bush. Democrats in 2000 claimed that their candidate had actually won, but for the Supreme Court. The GOP in 2008 claimed that Obama was born in Kenya.

If you think Republicans in 2016 would have accepted Hillary Clinton as a rightfully elected President, then--respectfully--where the hell have you been living during the last quarter century?

Again, Trump didn't create this problem. I doubt he will be the last President to have to contend with it.

I dunno, I think this is comparing a lot of apples, oranges and grapes.

And I don't think Trump is illegitimate, exactly. The intelligence community's consensus is that Russia meddled in our elections to get Trump elected, and we'll never know how much influence that had. And yeah, he did not win the popular vote. But he won the electoral college. But to say he is illegitimate for those reasons? I wouldn't go that far.

Honestly, I don't remember Republicans saying Clinton was actually illegitimate because of Perot. Bush v. Gore seemed... messed up, for sure. I think it was a shame what the courts did, because that shadow of uncertainty remained. But illegitimate? Again, I wouldn't go that far, because we don't actually know what the recount would have said. He did get re-elected legitimately in 2004, though.

Obama being from Kenya... That is the tinfoil hat brigade talking. That was not "we" not accepting a president as being legitimate.

Unfortunately, that tinfoil hat brigade has been strengthened and expanded by Alex Jones and his ilk. Those are the same people that would not have believed HRC won the election if she had. And that's because Trump himself started that wave. (And of course, he was instrumental in the Obama/Kenya thing as well.) You say Trump didn't create this problem. But he was pretty smack dab in the center of it.

I take definite issue with "we the people" being tarred with such a broad, messy brush. I think it very much misrepresents the reality.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #340 on: December 06, 2019, 12:09:28 PM »
It's surreal to me to see my conservative friends (who support Trump) saying that he's the only President who's ever had to encounter this type of disrespect and pushback.

As far as him personally being thin-skinned, that doesn't seem to resonate with people who have determined they will support him. It's like the tough guy image he cultivated on NBC for years is immutable or something.

Right?! I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated in office. Obama was hanged and burned in effigy. Nixon resigned in disgrace when faced with impeachment. Hoover was excoriated by the press and public because of the Depression and lost his follow-up election to FDR by a wide margin. Clinton’s filthy laundry was dragged out on the world stage multiple times during his presidency, including during a formal impeachment hearing.

Yet again, Trump thinks he alone should be exempt. Spoiled child.

I do think society has a deeper problem wherein we no longer accept a President of the opposing political party as legitimate. Trump didn't create this problem.

The GOP in 1992 claimed Clinton was illegitimate because Perot's presence in the race split the support for Bush. Democrats in 2000 claimed that their candidate had actually won, but for the Supreme Court. The GOP in 2008 claimed that Obama was born in Kenya.

If you think Republicans in 2016 would have accepted Hillary Clinton as a rightfully elected President, then--respectfully--where the hell have you been living during the last quarter century?

Again, Trump didn't create this problem. I doubt he will be the last President to have to contend with it.

Not sure what you're getting at here. I agree that it's a problem when citizens don't accept a democratically elected president as legitimate, but that's not what's being discussed. I think OtherJen's point was that every president has to deal with haters and no, that's not going to change, but it doesn't need to. As president he needs to suck it up and do his job anyway. When he doesn't that makes the country look bad.

Thank you. That was exactly my point. Trump wanted the job and has been on the planet for 30 years longer than me. He's had ample time to observe that all presidents face extremely challenging situations and largely created one such situation for his predecessor. I'm sick of the whining and tantrums and cowardice and absolute lack of appropriate governance.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #341 on: December 06, 2019, 03:27:53 PM »
Paul Krugman believes Trump's use of tariffs is an opportunity for Trump to enrich himself.

"So that’s why Trump is a Tariff Man: Tariffs let him exercise unconstrained power, rewarding his friends and punishing his enemies. Anyone imagining that he’s going to change his ways and start behaving responsibly is living in a fantasy world."

Why Is Trump a Tariff Man? https://nyti.ms/38e5a3F

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #342 on: December 06, 2019, 03:45:11 PM »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #343 on: December 06, 2019, 05:51:31 PM »
Whatever his intent, the economic effects are broadly positive.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/strong-u-s-job-growth-showcases-economys-resilience-idUSKBN1YA1IL

Very few economists would agree with you, and a correlation is not evidence, particularly on something as short lived as this.  If you want to go back in history you can find numerous examples of how tariffs coincided with a reduction in global GDP - and have been blamed for that drop.


"So that’s why Trump is a Tariff Man: Tariffs let him exercise unconstrained power, rewarding his friends and punishing his enemies. Anyone imagining that he’s going to change his ways and start behaving responsibly is living in a fantasy world."

Technically Congress has the power to levy tariffs, not the President (exempt in the interests of national security) - Article I, Sect. VIII. The GOP has so far allowed him to usurp their constitutional power (something that it likely to bite them in the ass in a few years).

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #344 on: December 06, 2019, 06:02:12 PM »
Whatever his intent, the economic effects are broadly positive.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/strong-u-s-job-growth-showcases-economys-resilience-idUSKBN1YA1IL

Very few economists would agree with you, and a correlation is not evidence, particularly on something as short lived as this.  If you want to go back in history you can find numerous examples of how tariffs coincided with a reduction in global GDP - and have been blamed for that drop.


"So that’s why Trump is a Tariff Man: Tariffs let him exercise unconstrained power, rewarding his friends and punishing his enemies. Anyone imagining that he’s going to change his ways and start behaving responsibly is living in a fantasy world."

Technically Congress has the power to levy tariffs, not the President (exempt in the interests of national security) - Article I, Sect. VIII. The GOP has so far allowed him to usurp their constitutional power (something that it likely to bite them in the ass in a few years).

Yeah, like those tariffs he put on Canada because we were a "national security risk".  He has obviously never read Dale Carnegie.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #345 on: December 07, 2019, 03:31:45 PM »
Whatever his intent, the economic effects are broadly positive.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/strong-u-s-job-growth-showcases-economys-resilience-idUSKBN1YA1IL

The economy is doing well.  As for whether tariffs have anything to do with this, that's debatable.

The tax cut, on the other hand, did provide some degree of stimulus - in the short term.  That said, it doesn't take a genius to throw money at an economy and produce a degree of stimulus.  Doing so in a manner that is both efficient and sustainable is another matter entirely - and the Trump/GOP tax cuts objectively fail on the latter.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #346 on: December 09, 2019, 07:28:36 AM »
Whatever his intent, the economic effects are broadly positive.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/strong-u-s-job-growth-showcases-economys-resilience-idUSKBN1YA1IL

The Labor market on the whole is performing well. But if you look at manufacturing jobs--and, really, that's what Trump says he's trying to save--the sector was shown to be treading water in the last several jobs reports.

And purchasing managers say that they're too cautious to invest right now. Based on their outlook, it'd be fair to say the recession already has come to manufacturing.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #347 on: December 09, 2019, 08:11:07 AM »
Listened to an interview with Robert O’Brien this morning(new National-Security Advisor... since it’s very hard to keep track these days).  The subject was about the release a (singular) hostage from Iran.

About half-way through he started spouting WH propaganda, seemingly for no reason.  It was like listening to an infomertial where everyone was reminded to be ‘on message’ and to hit certain ‘key points’. 
Among the things he said, largely unprompted
“No president has released more US hostages than DJT”
“Trump has assembled an all-star team within the state department ... Pompeo, Haskil, ... really the best people”
“We did not give up anything to free this hostage.  We did not send pallets of cash to Iran.  Trump made a fantastic deal”
“Iran wants to make a deal with us”
“The Obama administration caused all of these problems”

It was galling how transparent it was.  It sounded like he was given a list of phrases he had to say about how great Trump was and how it’s his supreme skil as a deal-maker.  I believe he even said At one point how this was “the greatest administration ever’.  Meanwhile thee was a lot of throwing previous career public servants under the bus.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #348 on: December 09, 2019, 10:02:51 AM »
Listened to an interview with Robert O’Brien this morning(new National-Security Advisor... since it’s very hard to keep track these days).  The subject was about the release a (singular) hostage from Iran.

About half-way through he started spouting WH propaganda, seemingly for no reason.  It was like listening to an infomertial where everyone was reminded to be ‘on message’ and to hit certain ‘key points’. 
Among the things he said, largely unprompted
“No president has released more US hostages than DJT”
“Trump has assembled an all-star team within the state department ... Pompeo, Haskil, ... really the best people”
“We did not give up anything to free this hostage.  We did not send pallets of cash to Iran.  Trump made a fantastic deal”
“Iran wants to make a deal with us”
“The Obama administration caused all of these problems”

It was galling how transparent it was.  It sounded like he was given a list of phrases he had to say about how great Trump was and how it’s his supreme skil as a deal-maker.  I believe he even said At one point how this was “the greatest administration ever’.  Meanwhile thee was a lot of throwing previous career public servants under the bus.
Did he really put the director of the CIA into the state dept?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #349 on: December 09, 2019, 10:18:41 AM »
Listened to an interview with Robert O’Brien this morning(new National-Security Advisor... since it’s very hard to keep track these days).  The subject was about the release a (singular) hostage from Iran.

About half-way through he started spouting WH propaganda, seemingly for no reason.  It was like listening to an infomertial where everyone was reminded to be ‘on message’ and to hit certain ‘key points’. 
Among the things he said, largely unprompted
“No president has released more US hostages than DJT”
“Trump has assembled an all-star team within the state department ... Pompeo, Haskil, ... really the best people”
“We did not give up anything to free this hostage.  We did not send pallets of cash to Iran.  Trump made a fantastic deal”
“Iran wants to make a deal with us”
“The Obama administration caused all of these problems”

It was galling how transparent it was.  It sounded like he was given a list of phrases he had to say about how great Trump was and how it’s his supreme skil as a deal-maker.  I believe he even said At one point how this was “the greatest administration ever’.  Meanwhile thee was a lot of throwing previous career public servants under the bus.
Did he really put the director of the CIA into the state dept?

Here's the audio - you can listen to yourself.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/09/786204977/national-security-adviser-aids-in-u-s-iran-prisoner-swap

No, he didn't lump the CIA with the State Dept, rather he credited Trump for "assembling an all-star cabinet" (around 4:10). Which is frankly a weird thing to say when so many of your direct appointees have resigned or been fired within the first couple of years, inlcuding two of the previous National Security Advisors.