Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297426 times)

the_gastropod

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2800 on: July 12, 2020, 07:00:30 AM »
So for a right, if I kill him on accident, he is still alive?

You may be onto something here. For someone on the right, the accusation that someone or something  is ďracistĒ may be akin to a criminal charge, where intent does matter (e.g., murder vs manslaughter). And those on the left tend to think of the result.

The problem with this, in my estimation, is nobody is being charged with anything when we criticize systems with different results for different races. We want to acknowledge the system is flawed as a first step toward improving it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 07:03:29 AM by the_gastropod »

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2801 on: July 12, 2020, 01:07:51 PM »
I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2802 on: July 12, 2020, 02:20:39 PM »
I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

This should be a 'President must obey the law' moment - what all this has seemingly been leading up to.  If the Republicans in power and their supporters let this slide, it's a Nixon moment x10.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2803 on: July 12, 2020, 03:50:38 PM »
EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.
This should be a 'President must obey the law' moment - what all this has seemingly been leading up to.  If the Republicans in power and their supporters let this slide, it's a Nixon moment x10.
One can debate the advisability, but Trump is following the same law that Clinton, Bush, Ford, Nixon, Roosevelt, et al. have followed.  See Why this Roger Stone commutation is not as controversial as some think for more.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2804 on: July 12, 2020, 04:05:36 PM »
Yeah, I noticed that Fox News had a similar analysis.   (Once in a while I look at Fox news to try and understand the other side.)   US presidents of both colours (red and blue!) have a long history of conflict of interest in issuing pardons.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2805 on: July 12, 2020, 05:12:47 PM »
Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety. He was also widely suspected/known to have engaged in money laundering activities in the past.

What's curious about the Trump pardon is that he did not do this in the lame duck session. He is doing it *now* as a way to control the news cycle by creating a distraction. So, as bad as the sneaky "I can get away with this" Clinton pardon of Mark Rich was, this seems like a much more frontal assault on democratic norms (even the "shady" norms). 

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2806 on: July 12, 2020, 06:50:37 PM »
The White House is now trying to discredit Dr. Fauci, possibly as a prelude to firing him.

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1282387141251784707?s=20

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2807 on: July 12, 2020, 07:55:37 PM »
Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety. He was also widely suspected/known to have engaged in money laundering activities in the past.

What's curious about the Trump pardon is that he did not do this in the lame duck session. He is doing it *now* as a way to control the news cycle by creating a distraction. So, as bad as the sneaky "I can get away with this" Clinton pardon of Mark Rich was, this seems like a much more frontal assault on democratic norms (even the "shady" norms).

Most of the more "interesting" presidential pardons happen in the closing days of that administration so there's little talk about it.

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2808 on: July 12, 2020, 10:25:23 PM »
Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. Iíve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time. Ever since then I have been permanent mail-in ballot. I can study the issues and vote with my husband from the dining room table. It works for all of Oregon, so it isnít like it isnít feasible.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2809 on: July 13, 2020, 03:49:36 AM »
Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety.
In other words, he was the epitome of US foreign activities?

Sorry, I just could not let this pass go to waste :D

Quote
Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. Iíve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time.
maybe we should speak a bit about what mail-in means.
Are we only speaking about "get it per post, fill out, send in"?
Because most of the "mail votes" in Germany are actually people going to the townhouse and vote there befeore voting day. (postal is only 2 weeks before and you have to mail the town first to get the paper, in-person can be up to 6 weeks before)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2810 on: July 13, 2020, 04:56:13 AM »
Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety.
In other words, he was the epitome of US foreign activities?

Sorry, I just could not let this pass go to waste :D

Quote
Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. Iíve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time.
maybe we should speak a bit about what mail-in means.
Are we only speaking about "get it per post, fill out, send in"?
Because most of the "mail votes" in Germany are actually people going to the townhouse and vote there befeore voting day. (postal is only 2 weeks before and you have to mail the town first to get the paper, in-person can be up to 6 weeks before)

Can't speak for the Americans,  but what you are describing sounds like advanced voting here.  It's meant for people who aren't sure they will be able to vote on Election day.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2811 on: July 13, 2020, 05:12:15 AM »
"Mail-in" in the USA means "fill out piece of paper and give it to the postal system days or weeks before Election Day"

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2812 on: July 13, 2020, 06:14:47 AM »
Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.


talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2813 on: July 13, 2020, 07:17:24 AM »
Makes old fashioned paper ballots look good.  Easy to allocate resources when they are are all low tech.

I may be biased, my federal and provincial elections are all low tech.  I voted by computer once in a rural municipal election.

We still use paper ballots in Michigan. I think the population would revolt if we lost our election paper trail.

They certainly make it easier to do recounts.

I really do think we're going to have a situation this year like Florida in 2000, but it will be in several states. There will be a lot of delay already because of the absentee votes, but we're probably going to have multiple GOP Secretaries of State trying to close the count early, and I'm expecting at least one GOP legislature--probably in Florida or GA--that will just assign their state's electors to Trump.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2814 on: July 13, 2020, 07:19:35 AM »
I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

The commutation of Stone's sentence is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I created this thread. I think almost everyone expected it would happen at some point. I pray that it happened this early because it's slowly dawning on Republicans that they won't win very much in November.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2815 on: July 13, 2020, 07:41:30 AM »
I donít think republicans will care about Stone. People look at these situations  through Their own political lenses. I bet most people in general couldnít tell you what Stone even did unless they googled it first.

So you wonít see much outrage on the right. As you didnít see much on the left from Clinton pardoning mark rich.

Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

economista

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2816 on: July 13, 2020, 07:45:10 AM »
We have mail in ballots in CO and it is wonderful. A few weeks before Election Day a ballot shows up at your house. You fill it out and put it in the envelope. You can choose to add a stamp and mail it back, back you have to make sure it will arrive by the designated date and time to be counted. OR, you can drop it off at a ballot box. There are secure ballot boxes at all of the voting precincts and they are available from the time the ballots get sent out. We filled out our primary ballots and then took a walk down the street to drop it in the box. If you want to vote in person, you can ignore your mailed ballot and go in person on Election Day.

You have to sign the mailed ballot and they DO compare the signatures. Every year there are number of ballots that get thrown out because the signature is wrong or missing. They also make sure you donít send in a ballot and then vote in person - you will only be counted once. For me, this is enough to get around the claims that mail in ballots create a lot more fraud than in person voting. I think it levels the playing field and gives everyone the chance to vote, especially those who canít go in person on Election Day.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2817 on: July 13, 2020, 07:50:15 AM »
Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2818 on: July 13, 2020, 08:03:24 AM »
Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.

Oh, that's interesting.  But it still has the effect of perverting justice.  To me, the reason Stone stands out is that this is a guy who committed crimes in order to get Trump elected.  So for him to not have to do any jail time seems very corrupt.  However, now that the Senate failed to convict and the election is only a few months away, I'm resigned to the fact that Trump gets to do all kinds of corrupt stuff.  We did what we could to get him removed in the House, but since the Senate refused to convict we lost our chance to get rid of him that way.  All we can do now is suck up the next few months and vote him out (hopefully).

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2819 on: July 13, 2020, 08:40:12 AM »
Suppose the President decides to pardon someone despite the fact that the House voted to impeach him late last year. What would be different? Would Barr decide that it somehow didn't count?

Commuting Stone's sentence keeps him out of jail (which--for a man in his 70s, in a time of COVID--is really the key). Will he not work for the Trump Campaign now? Is Roger stone so hard-up financially that he needs to work? He'll be able to earn speaking fees like Ollie North did to support himself for another fifteen years probably.

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2820 on: July 13, 2020, 09:20:50 AM »
Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process. If the House impeaches someone and the Senate indicts, they just get removed from their position. They're not automatically subject to any sentence for a crime. There's nothing for the president to pardon.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2821 on: July 13, 2020, 09:26:50 AM »
"Mail-in" in the USA means "fill out piece of paper and give it to the postal system days or weeks before Election Day"

In CA, you can also do a secure drop off. That is, you receive the ballot in the mail, and you can mail it back (pre paid postage) or choose to drop it off, the libraries and other county buildings have trained election staff and sealed ballot  bags there for a couple of weeks before the election.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2822 on: July 13, 2020, 09:28:18 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clintonís pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesnít excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2823 on: July 13, 2020, 09:34:16 AM »
Suppose the President decides to pardon someone despite the fact that the House voted to impeach him late last year. What would be different? Would Barr decide that it somehow didn't count?

Commuting Stone's sentence keeps him out of jail (which--for a man in his 70s, in a time of COVID--is really the key). Will he not work for the Trump Campaign now? Is Roger stone so hard-up financially that he needs to work? He'll be able to earn speaking fees like Ollie North did to support himself for another fifteen years probably.
I fully expect Stone to be paraded at a rally or two to rile up the true believers.

Yes, there is a long history of questionable pardons. Iran Contra and a handful of the Clinton pardons stick out. I think the statement from the WH house about Stone sticks out for its outrageousness. Heck, it even prompted Mueller to finally come out and  say something in public.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/11/mueller-stone-oped/?arc404=true

Let's not forget that this whole affair is really about foreign interference in our electoral process. The evidence for that is rock solid and only contested by a small handful of people who directly benefited (see WH statement, above). This will be at play in 2020 as well and the GOP has systematically blocked pretty much all attempts at shoring up the upcoming election. That alone should be enough for a patriotic American to vote the scoundrels out. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 09:50:28 AM by Glenstache »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2824 on: July 13, 2020, 09:39:55 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clintonís pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesnít excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2825 on: July 13, 2020, 10:01:53 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clintonís pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesnít excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

The reason that the McDougal pardon wasn't challenged is because the impeachment articles weren't about Whitewater.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2826 on: July 13, 2020, 10:14:37 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clintonís pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesnít excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

+1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2827 on: July 13, 2020, 10:50:41 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2828 on: July 13, 2020, 12:45:17 PM »
Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.

When a president's  pardon power is discussed "plenary" is often used to describe the power.

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.




nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2829 on: July 13, 2020, 01:18:36 PM »

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.

The constitutional bar is the Constitution, which outlines that the president can be impeached for 'Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors' (Section 4, Article 2).  SCOTUS would be the constitutional check should the House draft articles which do not meet that threshold. As the constitution also gives the President the power to pardon ("...The President shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States... Article II Section 2) the pardon itself would have to have its own nefarious purpose (e.g. bribery).

To use Trump's first pardon of J. Arpaio (or Obama's granting of clemency of C. Manning) it seems unlikely that either would stand up as impeachable offenses.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2830 on: July 13, 2020, 02:56:25 PM »
Indeed Trump's pardoning of Arpaio was despicable because of the senseless abuses of people, journalists, and the rule of law Arpaio has committed. But there's no question that it was lawful.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2831 on: July 13, 2020, 07:24:45 PM »

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.



The constitutional bar is the Constitution, which outlines that the president can be impeached for 'Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors' (Section 4, Article 2).  SCOTUS would be the constitutional check should the House draft articles which do not meet that threshold. .


I entirely disagree.

"High  Crimes  and Misdemeanors" could include a president's abuse of their pardon power for the reason of Gerald Ford's  sweeping description  of an impeachable offense: ďAn impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.Ē

Given that impeachment is highly political, under the Political Question Doctrine the Supreme Court would decline  adjudicating the proper threshold as to what constitutes an impeachable offense. This threshold is to be determined by the House and not the Supreme Court.

There is as much chance of the Supreme Court adjudicating this aspect of the House's impeachment power as there is a unanimous Court striking down Congress' taxing power.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2832 on: July 13, 2020, 08:41:32 PM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

Iím sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2833 on: July 14, 2020, 06:39:50 AM »
I entirely disagree.
I was not offering an opinion.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2834 on: July 14, 2020, 07:22:59 AM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

Iím sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

It's bizarre to see someone with the name "Tyler Durden" so pro-establishment and such an advocate of following rules/laws that don't make sense.

Gremlin

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2835 on: July 14, 2020, 09:58:50 PM »
Or Obamaís decision to commute Chelsea Manningís prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

Itís partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

Iím sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

It's bizarre to see someone with the name "Tyler Durden" so pro-establishment and such an advocate of following rules/laws that don't make sense.
Clearly you don't know the first rule, @GuitarStv.  Or rule seven, for that matter.

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2836 on: July 15, 2020, 12:30:03 AM »

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2837 on: July 15, 2020, 03:39:27 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
That is a very effective and cheap way to lower infection numbers, you have to acknoledge that!!

The orange ape is clearly in panic mode. I would not be surprised if he actually tries to sue hospitals.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2838 on: July 15, 2020, 04:30:26 AM »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2839 on: July 15, 2020, 05:01:31 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Jesus. And this is the same dickhead that bitched and moaned about a supposed Chinese cover up.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2840 on: July 15, 2020, 05:21:36 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2841 on: July 15, 2020, 06:08:09 AM »
I remember during the 2001 recession, the US trade deficit was so large that the rest of the world experienced an economic downturn, and everyone said, "When the US sneezes, the world catches a cold!"

And now the US is the hub of a global pandemic.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2842 on: July 15, 2020, 06:41:23 AM »
If anyone watched that shit show in the Rose Garden yesterday afternoon and still votes for that guy, then we get what we deserve. He looked absolutely terrible and rambled incoherently. It was difficult to watch. He's either on a lot of drugs, rapidly declining with dementia, or has some underlying health problems that are causing him to deteriorate very quickly. I get that he's under a huge amount of stress trying to find a way to get his footing in the election so that he can avoid prison, but damn...dude is in rough shape

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2843 on: July 15, 2020, 07:15:27 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2844 on: July 15, 2020, 07:16:19 AM »
If anyone watched that shit show in the Rose Garden yesterday afternoon and still votes for that guy, then we get what we deserve. He looked absolutely terrible and rambled incoherently. It was difficult to watch. He's either on a lot of drugs, rapidly declining with dementia, or has some underlying health problems that are causing him to deteriorate very quickly. I get that he's under a huge amount of stress trying to find a way to get his footing in the election so that he can avoid prison, but damn...dude is in rough shape

This. His supporters are a cult at this point. It's the only explanation. He is Dear Leader, and they will require deprogramming before they destroy all of us.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2845 on: July 15, 2020, 07:33:34 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.


Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees? 

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2846 on: July 15, 2020, 07:39:53 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.


Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees?

It's funny because people say this all the time...I just think a lot of people really, truly mean it this time...myself included. My wife's birth-mother (she was adopted, long story) lives in Canada and is preparing to move here. I'm thinking we need to have her stay put because we may need to move up there instead.

Plina

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2847 on: July 15, 2020, 07:41:46 AM »
Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8
Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.


Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees?

If you have money you are considered expats, otherwise you are refugees. So, tell me.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2848 on: July 15, 2020, 07:43:32 AM »
@GreenEggs you're with the MMM crowd, so hopefully you have a nice 'stache that can move you into the "expatriot" category, and earn you access to fancy balls, etc.

I'm envisioning something like the grand duchess' lifestyle in "Anastasia".

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #2849 on: July 15, 2020, 07:53:38 AM »
I had forgotten about this part of the election cycle.

The one where celebrities claim theyíll move out of the US if orange man is re elected. Doesnít seem many had the stones to do it last time but maybe this time will be different ...