Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297513 times)

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1850 on: May 06, 2020, 11:12:44 AM »
Sadly reminiscent, of course, of calling Neo-Nazis "very fine people."
Which, if one reads the transcript, he did not.  See PolitiFact | In Context: Donald Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks (transcript).

There are plenty of incorrect things Trump has said, and plenty of substantive policy differences one could have, without taking other things out of context in an attempt to score political points.
So here's precisely what Donald "before I make a statement, I like to know the facts" Trump said according to that transcript-

"Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"
Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.""

So in trying to argue that Donald Trump didn't say that neo-Nazis are very fine people you need to be able to argue that there were people who protested the taking down of the statue who were in the company of neo-Nazis (while not themselves being neo-Nazis) and were protesting in favour of a symbol of fighting for the continuance of slavery but were nevertheless "very fine people".  That is splitting hairs fine enough to need an electron microscope to see the difference.
You may be precise, but not accurate. ;)

Perhaps you missed this:
Quote
And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people.
This has been argued ad nauseam. You have to stop trying to defend this nonsense. The “Unite the Right” rally was organized by and intended for white supremacists and white nationalists. Feel free to grab the police affadavit and read it to understand the very specific ideological bent for the rally. It was crystal clear as to the intention of the rally, who was going to attend, etc. This wasn't some secret squirrel event. There were not any "very fine people" in that rally. 

You also are trying to defend Trump's remarks about the night before before in which more than 200 attendees held tiki torches on the campus of the University of Virginia and chanted “Jews will not replace us” and “Blood and soil.”

Trump's statement: "There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones."

NO! They were all chanting horrible shit and none of them were protesting quietly. Seriously, just stop. Be better than this.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 11:14:39 AM by MasterStache »

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1851 on: May 06, 2020, 11:31:15 AM »
I gotta agree with MDM on this one. Trump wasn't referring to Nazi's or white supremacists when he said "very fine people." He was talking about people marching in white supremacist marches, chanting "Jews will not replace us," in order glorify slavery. Which is totally different than white supremacists.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1852 on: May 06, 2020, 11:31:42 AM »
You have to stop trying to defend this nonsense. The “Unite the Right” rally was organized by and intended for white supremacists and white nationalists. Feel free to grab the police affadavit and read it to understand the very specific ideological bent for the rally. It was crystal clear as to the intention of the rally, who was going to attend, etc. This wasn't some secret squirrel event. There were not any "very fine people" in that rally. 

You also are trying to defend Trump's remarks about the night before before in which more than 200 attendees held tiki torches on the campus of the University of Virginia and chanted “Jews will not replace us” and “Blood and soil.”

Trump's statement: "There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones."

NO! They were all chanting horrible shit and none of them were protesting quietly. Seriously, just stop. Be better than this.
You may be missing the point.  At the least, you're definitely putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. 

The point is that Trump did not say "Neo-Nazis are very fine people."  He did say "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally."

He has also said a lot of other things, but on this particular point he's being incorrectly quoted.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1853 on: May 06, 2020, 11:36:46 AM »
I gotta agree with MDM on this one. Trump wasn't referring to Nazi's or white supremacists when he said "very fine people." He was talking about people marching in white supremacist marches, chanting "Jews will not replace us," in order glorify slavery. Which is totally different than white supremacists.

Or maybe Trump was referring to the journalists as "fine people." They were, after all, also at the rally.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1854 on: May 06, 2020, 11:44:50 AM »
Can I break into this excellent discussion of diplomacy to complain about Trump's 8:52 am tweet on the monthly jobs report (I have a Ph.D. in labor economics and study the economy intensely for my current employer):

  • He shouldn't comment on the report within the first hour
  • He inflated the numbers to claim it was a fantastic report
  • He won't subtract the striking GM workers' jobs next month (ask me how I know...)
  • He didn't need to do any of this deception because it was actually a decent report that shows the labor market is still expanding, and because Trump's economic record is pretty good in general

I realize that the most significant jobs report (BLS "Situation on Employment") of the year will come out in about 43 hours, and Trump was willing to do this with a good jobs report. It will be interesting to see what his approach to a bad one will be. Will he ignore it and try to direct media attention somewhere else, or spin the eight-figure job loss as the fault of media and Democrats?

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1855 on: May 06, 2020, 11:45:44 AM »
You have to stop trying to defend this nonsense. The “Unite the Right” rally was organized by and intended for white supremacists and white nationalists. Feel free to grab the police affadavit and read it to understand the very specific ideological bent for the rally. It was crystal clear as to the intention of the rally, who was going to attend, etc. This wasn't some secret squirrel event. There were not any "very fine people" in that rally. 

You also are trying to defend Trump's remarks about the night before before in which more than 200 attendees held tiki torches on the campus of the University of Virginia and chanted “Jews will not replace us” and “Blood and soil.”

Trump's statement: "There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones."

NO! They were all chanting horrible shit and none of them were protesting quietly. Seriously, just stop. Be better than this.
You may be missing the point.  At the least, you're definitely putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. 

The point is that Trump did not say "Neo-Nazis are very fine people."  He did say "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally."

He has also said a lot of other things, but on this particular point he's being incorrectly quoted.
Nope, I see your point. It's much the same as saying there were "very fine people" attending a KKK rally who were only there to support wooden cross burning but not the KKK themselves. Makes perfect sense. 

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1856 on: May 06, 2020, 11:55:43 AM »
Can I break into this excellent discussion of diplomacy to complain about Trump's 8:52 am tweet on the monthly jobs report (I have a Ph.D. in labor economics and study the economy intensely for my current employer):

  • He shouldn't comment on the report within the first hour
  • He inflated the numbers to claim it was a fantastic report
  • He won't subtract the striking GM workers' jobs next month (ask me how I know...)
  • He didn't need to do any of this deception because it was actually a decent report that shows the labor market is still expanding, and because Trump's economic record is pretty good in general

I realize that the most significant jobs report (BLS "Situation on Employment") of the year will come out in about 43 hours, and Trump was willing to do this with a good jobs report. It will be interesting to see what his approach to a bad one will be. Will he ignore it and try to direct media attention somewhere else, or spin the eight-figure job loss as the fault of media and Democrats?

Both? Lay some blame and then create controversy with a few tweets about...China. Or maybe tomorrow is Fauci's firing day. :)

Similarly, what will the Foxnews headline be? It may not even mention the jobs report, or maybe it'll be below the headliner, which will be something about Pelosi. The jobs report will of course be front and center on CNN.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1857 on: May 06, 2020, 11:58:19 AM »
Nope, I see your point. It's much the same as saying there were "very fine people" attending a KKK rally who were only there to support wooden cross burning but not the KKK themselves. Makes perfect sense.
I get that you don't like Trump.  Twisting "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally" into "Neo-Nazis are very fine people", however, makes no sense.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1858 on: May 06, 2020, 11:59:53 AM »
It's important to take Trump's comment in the context of his long history of racism and racist actions (from long before he became president, but certainly not stopping then).  Taken alone, maybe there would be a case to to make for the Charlottesville comment being an accident or misinterpreted.  Taken along with all of his history though, you have to be going through some serious cognitive dissonance mental hoops in order to conclude he was praising the (alleged) non-nazis at the nazi rally, marching with the nazis to protest the removal of the statue celebrating a proponent of slavery.

It seems an awful lot more likely that he was looking for (and succeeded at) praising the nazis while having deniability that he praised the nazis.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1859 on: May 06, 2020, 12:04:00 PM »
It seems an awful lot more likely that he was looking for (and succeeded at) praising the nazis while having deniability that he praised the nazis.
I don't know - that implies a level of cleverness I'm not sure he possesses. ;)

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1860 on: May 06, 2020, 12:26:26 PM »
Nope, I see your point. It's much the same as saying there were "very fine people" attending a KKK rally who were only there to support wooden cross burning but not the KKK themselves. Makes perfect sense.
I get that you don't like Trump.  Twisting "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally" into "Neo-Nazis are very fine people", however, makes no sense.
It was the rhetorical equivalent of a person saying, "I'm not racist, but have you noticed how <insert your preferred racial trope>."

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1861 on: May 06, 2020, 01:03:44 PM »
It's important to take Trump's comment in the context of his long history of racism and racist actions (from long before he became president, but certainly not stopping then).  Taken alone, maybe there would be a case to to make for the Charlottesville comment being an accident or misinterpreted.  Taken along with all of his history though, you have to be going through some serious cognitive dissonance mental hoops in order to conclude he was praising the (alleged) non-nazis at the nazi rally, marching with the nazis to protest the removal of the statue celebrating a proponent of slavery.

It seems an awful lot more likely that he was looking for (and succeeded at) praising the nazis while having deniability that he praised the nazis.

This makes a lot of sense.

For me, although I never liked him, I initially defended individual statements he made, because I did (and do to some extent) think the media wasn't giving him any benefit of the doubt and taking what he said in the worst possible way. Then....I got tired. His stuff became more outrageous and was everyday. I could dig into each thing he said, and I'd probably find 25-30% of the things were overblown where I could defend him because people were stretching stuff he said to make it worse than I believed he meant it.

In the end, I figured, what is the point? He's saying so much really, really bad stuff, that there's no reason for me to do the mental work to figure out when people are being a little extra "mean" to him. He's more than deserved it.

My advice is for anyone in my position, just let it go. It's much less mentally tiring, and he doesn't deserve the effort....

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1862 on: May 06, 2020, 01:07:30 PM »
It seems an awful lot more likely that he was looking for (and succeeded at) praising the nazis while having deniability that he praised the nazis.
I don't know - that implies a level of cleverness I'm not sure he possesses. ;)
Please don't underestimate him. He is an idiot (as far as science and rational thinking goes), but he understands bloody well how power works and how to use it. It is an understanding of only the crude, brute force type of power, but nonetheless.
He knows that outright praising Nazis is damaging him, so he does it in a way that you can't sue him, but still signals the same thing.
He will never say that raping a woman is okay, but it's not a problem if all you do is grab 'em by the pussy, right?

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1863 on: May 06, 2020, 01:15:41 PM »
Nope, I see your point. It's much the same as saying there were "very fine people" attending a KKK rally who were only there to support wooden cross burning but not the KKK themselves. Makes perfect sense.
I get that you don't like Trump.  Twisting "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally" into "Neo-Nazis are very fine people", however, makes no sense.
Conversely "they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones" in reference to a group of nothing but bad people makes no sense to me. I mean if he was truly condemning all neo-Nazis and white nationalist why say only some were bad? Probably because there were some good ones. I'm not really twisting when his message is inconsistent. It's pretty easy to condemn outright, always and without pause.   

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1864 on: May 06, 2020, 01:22:48 PM »
It seems an awful lot more likely that he was looking for (and succeeded at) praising the nazis while having deniability that he praised the nazis.
I don't know - that implies a level of cleverness I'm not sure he possesses. ;)
Please don't underestimate him. He is an idiot (as far as science and rational thinking goes), but he understands bloody well how power works and how to use it. It is an understanding of only the crude, brute force type of power, but nonetheless.
He knows that outright praising Nazis is damaging him, so he does it in a way that you can't sue him, but still signals the same thing.
He will never say that raping a woman is okay, but it's not a problem if all you do is grab 'em by the pussy, right?

i think this is largely correct. He is a narcissistic manipulator. He is apparently capable of being quite charming in person, but will also turn and do truly cold things the next minute. I think this tweet from a few days ago reveals the transactional nature of how he views all relationships, likely even including the neo nazis.
Quote
‘Concast’ should open up a long overdue Florida Cold Case against Psycho Joe Scarborough. I know him and Crazy Mika well, used them beautifully in the last Election, dumped them nicely, and will state on the record that he is “nuts”. Besides, bad ratings! #OPENJOECOLDCASE”

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1865 on: May 06, 2020, 01:50:10 PM »
With all the re-hashing of what Trump said and what he meant by it, I'm surprised this outrage seems to have slipped by:

Trump's renewed order to paint border wall black could up the cost by $500MM to $3B

This is from a government contract document obtained by WaPo.
His reasoning is that a black wall looks "more imposing" and that, during hot summer days a black metal fence will be "too hot to touch".  The latter is ridiculous on so many levels.  First, a $5 pair of gloves largely takes care of metal being "too hot" and people willing to risk being shot crossing over a barrier aren't going to stop because its a bit hot.  Perhaps more obviously, the sun sets and people frequently cross at night or dawn/dusk.

I run over a list of all the projects and programs that don't get funding every time I hear how much we are spending on this damn, easily penetrable barrier†.  Painting it black at ≥$500MM is just vanity piled on stupid.

† an earlier report obtained by a FOIA request showed how one section of border wall (San Diego Co) had been breached 18 times in 30 days, requiring over $11k in repairs. Seems smugglers can cut through the steel bollards using battery powered tools and diamond cutting bits in as little as 3 minutes.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1866 on: May 06, 2020, 03:16:06 PM »
With all the re-hashing of what Trump said and what he meant by it, I'm surprised this outrage seems to have slipped by:

Trump's renewed order to paint border wall black could up the cost by $500MM to $3B

This is from a government contract document obtained by WaPo.
His reasoning is that a black wall looks "more imposing" and that, during hot summer days a black metal fence will be "too hot to touch".  The latter is ridiculous on so many levels.  First, a $5 pair of gloves largely takes care of metal being "too hot" and people willing to risk being shot crossing over a barrier aren't going to stop because its a bit hot.  Perhaps more obviously, the sun sets and people frequently cross at night or dawn/dusk.

I run over a list of all the projects and programs that don't get funding every time I hear how much we are spending on this damn, easily penetrable barrier†.  Painting it black at ≥$500MM is just vanity piled on stupid.

† an earlier report obtained by a FOIA request showed how one section of border wall (San Diego Co) had been breached 18 times in 30 days, requiring over $11k in repairs. Seems smugglers can cut through the steel bollards using battery powered tools and diamond cutting bits in as little as 3 minutes.

Yeah, anyone looking at the cost-benefit of the wall for remote areas pretty quickly concludes that it is a waste of a lot of money. Border walls and fences are useful where there are high densities of people.

As to how easy it is to get over the wall, this made me chuckle. They set up a copy section of the wall at a rock climbing festival and timed how long it took people to just climb over it. An 8-year old did it in 40 seconds.
https://time.com/5694432/girl-climbs-border-wall-replica/

But, we also know that him pushing to get something done, even if total bullshit, is easy propaganda for his base. "Well at least he is doing something about it and willing to fight congress to get it done!"


nereo

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dandarc

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1869 on: May 06, 2020, 04:05:44 PM »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1870 on: May 06, 2020, 04:30:33 PM »
his base is busy acquiring new skills:

https://www.theonion.com/conservative-militia-group-prepares-for-societal-collap-1843290320?utm_campaign=The+Onion&utm_content=1588785311&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2so4exUQ2crYNlCxiHdcL0QDOjc5fBmbH92ZKVoep4J49ZRyDBIP_Xplc

:-))

The Onion is a satirical newspaper.  Not actually true.  Just FYI
Makes you wonder if Fox News posted that text verbatim what the comments section would look like.

I find that it's become increasingly difficult to distinguish The Onion or Borowitz Report from actual news in the last few years.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1871 on: May 06, 2020, 07:10:58 PM »
With all the re-hashing of what Trump said and what he meant by it, I'm surprised this outrage seems to have slipped by:

Trump's renewed order to paint border wall black could up the cost by $500MM to $3B

This is from a government contract document obtained by WaPo.
His reasoning is that a black wall looks "more imposing" and that, during hot summer days a black metal fence will be "too hot to touch".  The latter is ridiculous on so many levels.  First, a $5 pair of gloves largely takes care of metal being "too hot" and people willing to risk being shot crossing over a barrier aren't going to stop because its a bit hot.  Perhaps more obviously, the sun sets and people frequently cross at night or dawn/dusk.

I run over a list of all the projects and programs that don't get funding every time I hear how much we are spending on this damn, easily penetrable barrier†.  Painting it black at ≥$500MM is just vanity piled on stupid.

† an earlier report obtained by a FOIA request showed how one section of border wall (San Diego Co) had been breached 18 times in 30 days, requiring over $11k in repairs. Seems smugglers can cut through the steel bollards using battery powered tools and diamond cutting bits in as little as 3 minutes.

Yeah, anyone looking at the cost-benefit of the wall for remote areas pretty quickly concludes that it is a waste of a lot of money. Border walls and fences are useful where there are high densities of people.

As to how easy it is to get over the wall, this made me chuckle. They set up a copy section of the wall at a rock climbing festival and timed how long it took people to just climb over it. An 8-year old did it in 40 seconds.
https://time.com/5694432/girl-climbs-border-wall-replica/

But, we also know that him pushing to get something done, even if total bullshit, is easy propaganda for his base. "Well at least he is doing something about it and willing to fight congress to get it done!"

Good thing Mexico is paying for it.  Otherwise the people who voted for this wall would sure be feeling stupid.

Gremlin

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1872 on: May 06, 2020, 09:16:59 PM »
I can't help but feel I was somewhat responsible for this thread drifting off topic.  However, I feel like this is somewhat relevant given today's postings...

https://theshovel.com.au/2020/05/07/trump-claims-there-are-very-fine-organisms-on-both-sides-of-pandemic/

In case it's not obvious, The Shovel is satire.

MDM

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1873 on: May 06, 2020, 09:51:18 PM »
I can't help but feel I was somewhat responsible for this thread drifting off topic.
No need to apologize - outrage is a subjective thing.

Wolfpack Mustachian's observation:
"I could dig into each thing he said, and I'd probably find 25-30% of the things were overblown where I could defend him because people were stretching stuff he said to make it worse than I believed he meant it.
In the end, I figured, what is the point? He's saying so much really, really bad stuff, that there's no reason for me to do the mental work to figure out when people are being a little extra "mean" to him. He's more than deserved it." is a reasonable position.

It's much less reasonable to misquote someone under the pretext "well, we all know what he meant, so we'll just rearrange what was said to fit our preconceived notions."

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1874 on: May 07, 2020, 03:27:32 AM »
As to how easy it is to get over the wall, this made me chuckle. They set up a copy section of the wall at a rock climbing festival and timed how long it took people to just climb over it. An 8-year old did it in 40 seconds.
https://time.com/5694432/girl-climbs-border-wall-replica/

That part says it all- First I laughed at "rock climbing and politics" then I had wet eyes.

Lucy’s mother, Karla Hancock, tells TIME that her daughter has shown a natural inclination toward politics and rock climbing from a young age. Recently, Karla says Lucy has been interested in immigration, although the third-grader has found the national dialogue about immigration policy to be confusing.

“To her, it’s black and white: If somebody’s hungry, and you have the means to give to them, why couldn’t you?” Hancock says.


Yes, why don't you do it? Because it would be communism, of course!! That is the definition, right there. From each according to their possibilites to each according to their needs.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1875 on: May 07, 2020, 06:54:41 AM »
I think we're going to see a Republican party that weaponizes fear of communism/socialism to an extent that would look unrecognizable to anyone who hasn't read a Tom Clancy novel.


talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1876 on: May 07, 2020, 06:58:47 AM »
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiRxLLV5qHpAhXhc98KHetJBLYQFjABegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2Ftop-republican-fundraiser-and-trump-ally-to-be-named-postmaster-general-giving-president-new-influence-over-postal-service-officials-say%2F2020%2F05%2F06%2F25cde93c-8fd4-11ea-8df0-ee33c3f5b0d6_story.html&usg=AOvVaw0WAy7iUqbpBAPr_OgwBNGt

I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1877 on: May 07, 2020, 07:13:33 AM »
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiRxLLV5qHpAhXhc98KHetJBLYQFjABegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2Ftop-republican-fundraiser-and-trump-ally-to-be-named-postmaster-general-giving-president-new-influence-over-postal-service-officials-say%2F2020%2F05%2F06%2F25cde93c-8fd4-11ea-8df0-ee33c3f5b0d6_story.html&usg=AOvVaw0WAy7iUqbpBAPr_OgwBNGt

I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

Postal workers also have a union that may protect them somewhat from the administration (unlike, say, workers at the CDC or EPA).

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1878 on: May 07, 2020, 07:57:27 AM »
I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

What bugs me is the direct connection to Trump, and how he’s been so critical (and utterly uninformed) about what USPS does.  The postal service is in the constitution, people! 

The founding fathers never envisioned the post office as a profit-making company, nor (IMO) should it be one.  It’s a necessary service, particularly in rural areas like my own.


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1879 on: May 07, 2020, 08:49:14 AM »
I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

What bugs me is the direct connection to Trump, and how he’s been so critical (and utterly uninformed) about what USPS does.  The postal service is in the constitution, people! 

The founding fathers never envisioned the post office as a profit-making company, nor (IMO) should it be one.  It’s a necessary service, particularly in rural areas like my own.

The profit of a post service is not in post fees, it comes out of e.g. business being abel to communicate with each other and make busines.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1880 on: May 07, 2020, 09:58:20 AM »
I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

What bugs me is the direct connection to Trump, and how he’s been so critical (and utterly uninformed) about what USPS does.  The postal service is in the constitution, people! 

The founding fathers never envisioned the post office as a profit-making company, nor (IMO) should it be one.  It’s a necessary service, particularly in rural areas like my own.

The profit of a post service is not in post fees, it comes out of e.g. business being abel to communicate with each other and make busines.

That and households being connected and able to receive items and communications.  Official (i.e. legal / governmental) notifications are still largely via post.  Living in urban environments (as we previously did) it’s easy to forget how much rural communities till rely on USPS.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1881 on: May 07, 2020, 10:25:57 AM »
I have to confess to seeing the headlines about the new Postmaster General and feeling my usual shot of adrenaline ("first postmaster general who hasn't risen through the ranks in nearly twenty years")

But then, I have to honestly admit: I never had a clue who the PM general was. This may not be sufficiently outrageous.

What bugs me is the direct connection to Trump, and how he’s been so critical (and utterly uninformed) about what USPS does.  The postal service is in the constitution, people! 

The founding fathers never envisioned the post office as a profit-making company, nor (IMO) should it be one.  It’s a necessary service, particularly in rural areas like my own.

The profit of a post service is not in post fees, it comes out of e.g. business being abel to communicate with each other and make busines.

That and households being connected and able to receive items and communications.  Official (i.e. legal / governmental) notifications are still largely via post.  Living in urban environments (as we previously did) it’s easy to forget how much rural communities till rely on USPS.

The recent trend has been for the GOP to complain about how bad government is, appoint total hacks to important positions, and then say "SEE!" when it fails. i think the USPS is important social glue. Part of the financial issues relate to the ways in which they have been forced to pre-pay pensions.

I wonder what the cost of just distributing the census forms or the recent stimulus checks would have been if we had no USPS?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1882 on: May 07, 2020, 01:20:54 PM »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1883 on: May 07, 2020, 02:06:49 PM »
Seems that Trump-Barr have decided this is an easier course of action than a pardon for Flynn:
https://www.newsandguts.com/ap-justice-department-to-drop-charges-against-flynn/?fbclid=IwAR3WIYCkTLalBJSMAZs8SD_oSK0ADdYP1T8T2T8N4Q540udeCpuKl12lVMM

As always, hugely disappointing but not at all surprising. I wonder what Flynn promised in return. Trump only values transactional relationships.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1884 on: May 07, 2020, 02:14:37 PM »
Wondering if Flynn will go back to campaigning for Trump
To anyone else he would be toxic. To trump and his base he is some sort of martyr.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1885 on: May 07, 2020, 02:21:22 PM »
I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of wealthy, connected Trump supporters find ways to not be in jail during this time.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1886 on: May 07, 2020, 02:26:36 PM »
I think the real loser in all of this has been the US military brass. Flynn is a convicted criminal. Kelly & Mattis left frustrated and amid a twitter rage. McMaster came out the best, but hardly smelling like a rose.
Depending on where you sit they either capitulated to a know-nothing our failed to serve their commander in chief dutifully. Regardless, the image of them being above the political fray has been split.

MKinVA

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1887 on: May 07, 2020, 02:31:42 PM »
Trump wants a hack heading the Postal Service to try to influence (a) the distribution and tallying of the Census; and (b) the proper conduct of mail-in voting. Simple chaos in that system, he bets, will benefit him.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1888 on: May 07, 2020, 02:33:04 PM »
Trump wants a hack heading the Postal Service to try to influence (a) the distribution and tallying of the Census; and (b) the proper conduct of mail-in voting. Simple chaos in that system, he bets, will benefit him.

This, exactly. My state had record voter turnout for a May election on Tuesday, and 99% of those votes were absentee.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1889 on: May 07, 2020, 02:42:02 PM »
Seems that Trump-Barr have decided this is an easier course of action than a pardon for Flynn:
https://www.newsandguts.com/ap-justice-department-to-drop-charges-against-flynn/?fbclid=IwAR3WIYCkTLalBJSMAZs8SD_oSK0ADdYP1T8T2T8N4Q540udeCpuKl12lVMM

Sure! Barr is just doing Trump's dirty work. That's how it goes. Comey wouldn't "let it go" so Trump fired him and hired someone who would.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1890 on: May 07, 2020, 02:55:58 PM »
It's actually quite astonishing how quickly and completely the USA has fallen into total (federal) governmental corruption.

And also quite astonishing is how little anyone can do about it.  The courts are impotent, and achingly slow at even what they can or are willing to do.  It seems that all you can do is hope and wait for an election which the incumbent will do everything he can to corrupt.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 02:57:53 PM by former player »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1891 on: May 07, 2020, 03:00:42 PM »
Sincerely, is there an actual, legal argument for the brief that DOJ filed dismissing the charges today? I'm trying to see how this can possibly be anything other than corrupt?

And why wouldn't Trump just pardon him? Does he think that will be politically damaging?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1892 on: May 07, 2020, 03:08:43 PM »
It's actually quite astonishing how quickly and completely the USA has fallen into total (federal) governmental corruption.

And also quite astonishing is how little anyone can do about it.  The courts are impotent, and achingly slow at even what they can or are willing to do.  It seems that all you can do is hope and wait for an election which the incumbent will do everything he can to corrupt.

Some would say that is the designated way of combating such a scenario as we currently find ourself in

What I wonder is whether there will be legal action of this administration street it comes to an end. We have a tradition of not persecuting previous leaders (perhaps best exemplified by Nixon’s pardoning) but it might not be extended to trump, particularly if the GOP gets creamed in tweet another election.
 
Perhaps I’m wrong (and I very well could be) but as I understand it a future DOJ could pick up on sentencing Flynn as he has been found guilty but not pardoned or sentenced

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1893 on: May 07, 2020, 03:09:14 PM »
This may sound weird, but PM Harper making the mandatory long form census voluntary was actually one of the causes of his election loss.  It was a big issue in Canada, and the head of Stats Canada resigned in protest.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/statistics-canada-chief-falls-on-sword-over-census/article1320915/

A lot of Trump's support is rural, wouldn't a messed-up postal service irk them?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1894 on: May 07, 2020, 03:18:10 PM »
It’s absolutely amazing to me how many GOP positions negatively impact the very rural voters who are their base. Not just the post office, but cuts to most welfare programs ( more goes to rural voters than urban), more favorable tax treatment to top earners, limitation of medical clinics and insurance providers... 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1895 on: May 07, 2020, 03:19:57 PM »


A lot of Trump's support is rural, wouldn't a messed-up postal service irk them?

If they were good critical thinkers, yes.

MKinVA

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1896 on: May 07, 2020, 03:33:27 PM »
Even if the next administration(s) do not take legal action against the wrongdoers of this administration, for god's sake, at least pass some laws that prevent future nut jobs from taking advantage the way the Trumps are. Require the release of tax returns to run for president (and Congress). Protect women's rights by passing federal laws on abortion instead of leaving it to court precedent. Bar president, vice pres, Speaker, etc., from owning individual stocks, enforce laws such as barring military personnel from serving in the executive branch until they have been out of the military for 10 plus years (to prevent the takeover of government by the military), bar the appointment of any staff member who is not confirmed within 90 days of appointment, bar the use of acting heads of agencies and other office of importance to get around the confirmation process, enforce the nepotism rules within the White House, etc. You get the idea. All of it. In the law. Stop with the "he's violating norms." Make it a crime and push the prosecution of the president cause a note from the DOJ doesn't hold water any more. Make the effing Supreme Court do its job. Also, and this is out on the far end, impeachment every federal judge and Supreme Court justice you think is not an honest dealer. Now that Mitch McConnell has set the precedent that impeachment in the Senate does not require evidence or witnesses, impeach every one of them. All it takes, apparently, is a vote on the floor of the Senate. That's why the Dems need to take it back.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1897 on: May 07, 2020, 03:44:15 PM »
It’s absolutely amazing to me how many GOP positions negatively impact the very rural voters who are their base. Not just the post office, but cuts to most welfare programs ( more goes to rural voters than urban), more favorable tax treatment to top earners, limitation of medical clinics and insurance providers...

Yup, that is one of the great mysteries.  Why so many voters vote Republican against their interests.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1898 on: May 07, 2020, 03:50:23 PM »
It’s absolutely amazing to me how many GOP positions negatively impact the very rural voters who are their base. Not just the post office, but cuts to most welfare programs ( more goes to rural voters than urban), more favorable tax treatment to top earners, limitation of medical clinics and insurance providers...

Yup, that is one of the great mysteries.  Why so many voters vote Republican against their interests.

Some actually believe that the GOP cares about unborn children, despite 45 years of evidence to the contrary. Some don't want "those people" to get handouts. Some have drunk the Koolaid about needing to drown government in a bathtub. Some want to own the libs.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1899 on: May 07, 2020, 03:58:53 PM »
It’s absolutely amazing to me how many GOP positions negatively impact the very rural voters who are their base. Not just the post office, but cuts to most welfare programs ( more goes to rural voters than urban), more favorable tax treatment to top earners, limitation of medical clinics and insurance providers...

Yup, that is one of the great mysteries.  Why so many voters vote Republican against their interests.
Well pick your poison. They've been told for decades "libtards" will turn the country into a socialist commie country. Dems want open borders. Global warming isn't real and it's just a ploy to get more of your money for wealth redistribution. Dems are shipping your jobs off to China. They are godless baby killers. And oh yeah, they is comin fer yer guns! It's the ultimate gaslighting.  But hey if it aint broke, don't fix it.