Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297496 times)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1350 on: April 06, 2020, 11:57:13 AM »
See also, still pushing proven ineffective medicines ( Hydroxychloroquine  ) and musing about still allowing (distanced) Easter Sunday services. How does anyone support this con-man dotard?

My brother works for an NGO and spends a lot of time in Africa. Hydroxychlorquine can have some nasty side effects - so disruptive to his daily life that my brother decided the risk of malaria (which he eventually contracted, ironically) was more appealing than the side effects of hydroxychlorquine.

People are in for a rude awakening if they think they can just take a few doses of this clinically untried treatment and wake up cured or immune to the coronavirus.


nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1351 on: April 06, 2020, 12:08:21 PM »
File under: How to lose the support of the military.

Among all the more dire and dramatic news of the week, the stand-off between the acting Sec. of Navy and US Navy Capt. Brett Crozier is getting lost in the shuffle.  To recap, Capt. Crozier - in command of the Air Craft Carrier US Roosevelt with 5,000 crew - sent an internal email detailing how 'up to 30' of his sailors had contracted the cornoavirus, it appeared to be running rampant through the crew and it was impacting his combat readiness.  In the email he practically begged to return to port stating that "we are not at war... sailors need not die"

The acting Sec. of Navy promptly relieved Cpt. Crozier of command and accused him of 'leaking' the situation (which pretty much everyone agrees was the truth) to the public.  As he was relieved from command upon docking in San Diego hundreds of sailors cheered for him.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1352 on: April 06, 2020, 12:17:16 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1353 on: April 06, 2020, 01:53:51 PM »
File under: How to lose the support of the military.

Among all the more dire and dramatic news of the week, the stand-off between the acting Sec. of Navy and US Navy Capt. Brett Crozier is getting lost in the shuffle.  To recap, Capt. Crozier - in command of the Air Craft Carrier US Roosevelt with 5,000 crew - sent an internal email detailing how 'up to 30' of his sailors had contracted the cornoavirus, it appeared to be running rampant through the crew and it was impacting his combat readiness.  In the email he practically begged to return to port stating that "we are not at war... sailors need not die"

The acting Sec. of Navy promptly relieved Cpt. Crozier of command and accused him of 'leaking' the situation (which pretty much everyone agrees was the truth) to the public.  As he was relieved from command upon docking in San Diego hundreds of sailors cheered for him.




mercurynews
3 hours ago


The Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly  [declared] Crozier was either “too naive or too stupid” to be in command.

Modly went on to say it was a “betrayal of trust, with me, with his chain of command.”
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 01:56:51 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Wrenchturner

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1354 on: April 06, 2020, 02:23:55 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".
Fighting stupid with stupid.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1355 on: April 06, 2020, 03:21:09 PM »
Sounds like Modly took leadership lessons from the orange one.

I've lost count of the number of "executives" I've had the pleasure of working for who think that intimidation is a form of leadership.   It's not tough management, it's organizational poison.


Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1356 on: April 06, 2020, 03:31:28 PM »
Sounds like Modly took leadership lessons from the orange one.

I've lost count of the number of "executives" I've had the pleasure of working for who think that intimidation is a form of leadership.   It's not tough management, it's organizational poison.

Yep. In true Trump fashion, Modly was named Acting Navy Secretary so that: a) he wouldn't have to be approved by Congress; b) he would know he had to kowtow to Trump to keep his job.

And so he has.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1357 on: April 06, 2020, 03:34:57 PM »
Sounds like Modly took leadership lessons from the orange one.

I've lost count of the number of "executives" I've had the pleasure of working for who think that intimidation is a form of leadership.   It's not tough management, it's organizational poison.

Modly reports directly to POTUS, and serves at his exclusive pleasure as an acting SecNav.  I'm guessing his comments were direct lines fed to him by 'the orange one'.  There's a lot of precedent for this.

Seems like a enormously risky bet:  If just one of those estimated 400 infected sailors die Capt. Crozier will look like the dutiful commander who sacrificed his own career to protect the sailors under his command. Shipmates don't forget those who died (or why), and always remember their captain and what he did.  The political egg won't stop among those serving on that ship, either -- certainly Modly will be proverbally tarred and feathered too.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1358 on: April 06, 2020, 03:42:30 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1359 on: April 06, 2020, 03:51:26 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".
I haven't actually seen a list of who received the letter, and nor has there been any indication that there is an investigation into who leaked it.  I would expect that the letter only went to people more senior that Capt Crozier because those would be the people in a position to do something about the situation.  So Modly is basically saying " Capt Crozier should have known that his superiors would have leaked the letter, so we have to sack Crozier".  Really?

Samuel

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1360 on: April 06, 2020, 04:05:46 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".
I haven't actually seen a list of who received the letter, and nor has there been any indication that there is an investigation into who leaked it.  I would expect that the letter only went to people more senior that Capt Crozier because those would be the people in a position to do something about the situation.  So Modly is basically saying " Capt Crozier should have known that his superiors would have leaked the letter, so we have to sack Crozier".  Really?

There's definitely an investigation, but I don't think they've said who was on the email (just "20-30" people and his immediate superior was not one of them) or why he would have sent it completely unsecured.

For the record I'm not defending Modly's speech or actions, just pushing back on the "called him naive or stupid" headlines.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1361 on: April 06, 2020, 04:10:48 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".

I don't understand why he had to say anything.  There is going to be an investigation.  And it hasn't happened yet.  Until then saying something like this is pure speculation.  Seems like a dumb political move to me.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1362 on: April 06, 2020, 04:38:37 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".

I don't understand why he had to say anything.  There is going to be an investigation.  And it hasn't happened yet.  Until then saying something like this is pure speculation.  Seems like a dumb political move to me.
I suspect that the audience for Modly was also every other single ship in the Navy. "Stay in line or else." and "You actually don't get a say in this."

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1363 on: April 06, 2020, 09:36:55 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".

I don't understand why he had to say anything.  There is going to be an investigation.  And it hasn't happened yet.  Until then saying something like this is pure speculation.  Seems like a dumb political move to me.
I suspect that the audience for Modly was also every other single ship in the Navy. "Stay in line or else." and "You actually don't get a say in this."

The US Navy goes through ship captains without a second thought. The firings are frequent and public, but this is the first time I've ever heard of SECNAV going to the ship itself and giving the crew a "reason you suck" speech to their faces afterwards.

Wrenchturner

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1364 on: April 06, 2020, 09:46:52 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".
I haven't actually seen a list of who received the letter, and nor has there been any indication that there is an investigation into who leaked it.  I would expect that the letter only went to people more senior that Capt Crozier because those would be the people in a position to do something about the situation.  So Modly is basically saying " Capt Crozier should have known that his superiors would have leaked the letter, so we have to sack Crozier".  Really?

There's definitely an investigation, but I don't think they've said who was on the email (just "20-30" people and his immediate superior was not one of them) or why he would have sent it completely unsecured.

For the record I'm not defending Modly's speech or actions, just pushing back on the "called him naive or stupid" headlines.

Thanks for that, I should have read the article.  It definitely reads better in the original form.

And the idea that soldiers shouldn't be endangered in non-wartime is silly.  Soldiers die in training all the time, and they trash their thyroids, etc.  A balance has to be assessed carefully by people more involved than me, of course.  Showing weakness in the Pacific ocean has its price as well.  The Captain seemed to assume this was a one-sided problem and he didn't follow the chain of command to resolve the situation.  Finally, the COVID situation is not simple either.  Look at Sweden's decisions.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1365 on: April 07, 2020, 01:29:35 AM »
You don't look week - or at least weeker than anybody else is (which everbody knows) - if you acknoledge you have sick people on board who should better get treated or they die.

On a ship you only need one bad case (no symptoms for days while he is infecting) and the whole crew is damned to get it either fast or slow.

The Chinese know it and surely won't start a war just because the ship is going to medical treatment for a few weeks (it is still combat ready after all and can be back in a matter of days).

btw. I was never a friend of the "peace is made by being able to strike everwhere on the earth in 24h" doctrine.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1366 on: April 07, 2020, 09:30:06 AM »
A post about how unconventional (is argue dysfunctional) this administration is:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham is leaving the job after eight months during which she held no regular press briefings

Yup.  Eight months is a federally funded position and not once did she do what her job typically entails.

skp

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1367 on: April 07, 2020, 09:43:44 AM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".
I haven't actually seen a list of who received the letter, and nor has there been any indication that there is an investigation into who leaked it.  I would expect that the letter only went to people more senior that Capt Crozier because those would be the people in a position to do something about the situation.  So Modly is basically saying " Capt Crozier should have known that his superiors would have leaked the letter, so we have to sack Crozier".  Really?

There's definitely an investigation, but I don't think they've said who was on the email (just "20-30" people and his immediate superior was not one of them) or why he would have sent it completely unsecured.

For the record I'm not defending Modly's speech or actions, just pushing back on the "called him naive or stupid" headlines.

Thanks for that, I should have read the article.  It definitely reads better in the original form.

And[u] the idea that soldiers shouldn't be endangered in non-wartime is silly.  Soldiers die in training all the time[/u], and they trash their thyroids, etc.  A balance has to be assessed carefully by people more involved than me, of course.  Showing weakness in the Pacific ocean has its price as well.  The Captain seemed to assume this was a one-sided problem and he didn't follow the chain of command to resolve the situation.  Finally, the COVID situation is not simple either.  Look at Sweden's decisions.
Needlessly???

The ironic part of the whole thing is that Modley in his apology said his speech was "only" meant for the sailors on the ship.  Really?  Was he stupid or naïve that it wouldn't get out to the public?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1368 on: April 07, 2020, 09:52:16 AM »
A post about how unconventional (is argue dysfunctional) this administration is:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham is leaving the job after eight months during which she held no regular press briefings

Yup.  Eight months is a federally funded position and not once did she do what her job typically entails.

Cool. Let's do Omarosa, now.

Wrenchturner

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1369 on: April 07, 2020, 09:55:08 AM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".
I haven't actually seen a list of who received the letter, and nor has there been any indication that there is an investigation into who leaked it.  I would expect that the letter only went to people more senior that Capt Crozier because those would be the people in a position to do something about the situation.  So Modly is basically saying " Capt Crozier should have known that his superiors would have leaked the letter, so we have to sack Crozier".  Really?

There's definitely an investigation, but I don't think they've said who was on the email (just "20-30" people and his immediate superior was not one of them) or why he would have sent it completely unsecured.

For the record I'm not defending Modly's speech or actions, just pushing back on the "called him naive or stupid" headlines.

Thanks for that, I should have read the article.  It definitely reads better in the original form.

And[u] the idea that soldiers shouldn't be endangered in non-wartime is silly.  Soldiers die in training all the time[/u], and they trash their thyroids, etc.  A balance has to be assessed carefully by people more involved than me, of course.  Showing weakness in the Pacific ocean has its price as well.  The Captain seemed to assume this was a one-sided problem and he didn't follow the chain of command to resolve the situation.  Finally, the COVID situation is not simple either.  Look at Sweden's decisions.
Needlessly???

The ironic part of the whole thing is that Modley in his apology said his speech was "only" meant for the sailors on the ship.  Really?  Was he stupid or naïve that it wouldn't get out to the public?

What's needless about it?  US wants a strong military presence in Guam.  That has costs, like keeping an aircraft carrier functional during a pandemic.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1370 on: April 07, 2020, 10:20:41 AM »
A post about how unconventional (is argue dysfunctional) this administration is:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham is leaving the job after eight months during which she held no regular press briefings

Yup.  Eight months is a federally funded position and not once did she do what her job typically entails.

See how ineffective government is? Republicans always told you, but blocking, lying Democrats would never admit it!

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1371 on: April 07, 2020, 10:22:14 AM »
A post about how unconventional (is argue dysfunctional) this administration is:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham is leaving the job after eight months during which she held no regular press briefings

Yup.  Eight months is a federally funded position and not once did she do what her job typically entails.

Cool. Let's do Omarosa, now.
Yeah... Omarosa.
That was straight out of the reality TV playbook. Bring someone back from a previous “season” or another show. Doesn’t matter whether it goes well or not. Ratings bump. Or toss out a celeb. See: Kim Kardashian-West.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1372 on: April 07, 2020, 10:24:42 AM »
A post about how unconventional (is argue dysfunctional) this administration is:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham is leaving the job after eight months during which she held no regular press briefings

Yup.  Eight months is a federally funded position and not once did she do what her job typically entails.

See how ineffective government is? Republicans always told you, but blocking, lying Democrats would never admit it!

Remind me of an old joke:  Dems want show how government can lift up the poor, correct for past injustices and make everyone’s lives better, and they want your help getting elected to prove it. Republicans think government is the root of all social dysfunction, that all politicians are corrupt... and they want your vote to prove it!

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1373 on: April 07, 2020, 11:09:43 AM »
I feel like the outrages are coming fast and hard as our country deals with multiple crises. Maybe we should change this to Trump Outrage of the Hour

This hour’s outrage:
Trump has removed the inspector general who was responsible for overseeing the disbursement of $2T in stimulus funds. 

Anyone here legitimately think billion$$ won’t get misused, misappropriated and mishandles if there’s no one watching over the plan?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1374 on: April 07, 2020, 11:22:52 AM »
Wow! When I first saw your post, I thought this was about the inspector general who was fired on Friday night. But this is actually another inspector general. That's two inspectors (general) in five days. So far.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1375 on: April 07, 2020, 11:46:02 AM »
I feel like the outrages are coming fast and hard as our country deals with multiple crises. Maybe we should change this to Trump Outrage of the Hour

This hour’s outrage:
Trump has removed the inspector general who was responsible for overseeing the disbursement of $2T in stimulus funds. 

Anyone here legitimately think billion$$ won’t get misused, misappropriated and mishandles if there’s no one watching over the plan?

I would love to be able to listen in on Trump.  I'm sure the firing went something like - 'Well, my Mar a Lago is shut down so I think a few million is fair'  to which he gets 'the bill specifically says you and your family are not entitled to any of the funds'.  Two seconds later, 'you're fired.  And find me a guy that will approve this request for funds'.

I'm sure the meeting with oil execs was especially comedic.  Okay guys, Russia is saying they will cut if we cut production.  It'll be good for your oil prices, so, how do we want to do this....  Exxon, any production cuts?  Chevron?  Cuhmon guys, just ignore the fact this is Capitalism and lose even more money!  Your shareholders already sold off your stock, what do you have to lose.  Boy, tough room, guess I'll have to tell Vlad you're all a bunch of sissys.  Like this would set a precedent or something, you guys obviously aren't geniuses like I thought.  Cuhmon.  Anybody?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1376 on: April 07, 2020, 11:54:12 AM »
Sadly this all is eerily similar to the way that Trump approached his business ventures.  He overhyped, overpromised and oversold, then relied on bankruptcy and massive loans when things predictably failed. He’s declared bankruptcy - what - four times?  Even bragged about being “the King of Debt” and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default, and as POTUS has pushed for more debt-fueled spending, less regulation and narrower margins across multiple sectors (e.g. banking, fossil fuels, real-estate).


nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1377 on: April 07, 2020, 01:44:35 PM »
Came across this in HuffPo-

Trump has been pushing this treatment usually used for malaria and lupus.
Guess who (reportedly) owns an equity stake in a company (Sanofi) that makes hydroxychloroquine?  Yup - Trump.
Who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust as its standard?  Hmmm... 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1378 on: April 07, 2020, 02:46:54 PM »
Came across this in HuffPo-

Trump has been pushing this treatment usually used for malaria and lupus.
Guess who (reportedly) owns an equity stake in a company (Sanofi) that makes hydroxychloroquine?  Yup - Trump.
Who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust as its standard?  Hmmm...

Yeah.... I read that article, but it was a pretty weak connection. Most other places estimate Trump's interest in Sanofi to be at most around $3000. I think the more likely explanation is that Hannity and others were pushing it in order to have a "miracle end" of the virus to avert the shutdown. Trump started spouting it, and now his ego won't let him back off of it.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1379 on: April 07, 2020, 03:13:48 PM »
Came across this in HuffPo-

Trump has been pushing this treatment usually used for malaria and lupus.
Guess who (reportedly) owns an equity stake in a company (Sanofi) that makes hydroxychloroquine?  Yup - Trump.
Who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust as its standard?  Hmmm...

Yeah.... I read that article, but it was a pretty weak connection. Most other places estimate Trump's interest in Sanofi to be at most around $3000. I think the more likely explanation is that Hannity and others were pushing it in order to have a "miracle end" of the virus to avert the shutdown. Trump started spouting it, and now his ego won't let him back off of it.

And plaquenil is not a high-margin drug...

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1380 on: April 07, 2020, 03:36:40 PM »
...and then gave a speech to the entire crew--4800 sailors--in which he said the captain was either "stupid" or "naïve".

Except he didn't, really.

“If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that's a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”

Seems to me Modly was saying "look, we all know Captain Crozier is not naive or stupid which means he deliberately circumvented the chain of command and sent this email with the intention that it would be leaked, and that is a obviously a huge problem".

You know, I agree with this. Listening to/reading the speech, Modly did not call Crozier stupid and/or naive.

But the thing is, those words are jarring and inflammatory enough in the context -- antagonistic and aggressive enough in tone -- to basically give the impression that he is calling Crozier stupid and naive even after he later says, "the alternative is..."

Those are the words that will have resounded throughout that ship when he said them. Those are among the words that crew will remember most.

Frankly, that is definitely something he should apologize for. Loudly and sincerely. He should have known better. Maybe read the speech to someone close to him before giving it to an entire crew most of whom clearly liked and respected Crozier -- and all of whom had phones with recording devices.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 03:47:05 PM by Kris »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1381 on: April 07, 2020, 04:28:05 PM »
Came across this in HuffPo-

Trump has been pushing this treatment usually used for malaria and lupus.
Guess who (reportedly) owns an equity stake in a company (Sanofi) that makes hydroxychloroquine?  Yup - Trump.
Who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust as its standard?  Hmmm...

Yeah.... I read that article, but it was a pretty weak connection. Most other places estimate Trump's interest in Sanofi to be at most around $3000. I think the more likely explanation is that Hannity and others were pushing it in order to have a "miracle end" of the virus to avert the shutdown. Trump started spouting it, and now his ego won't let him back off of it.

And plaquenil is not a high-margin drug...
Who the hell knows - this President has been positively opaque about his assets

Quite possible he’s hyping this because there’sa huge upside if he’s right, but relatively little downside is it turns out to have marginal effectiveness. We already know a great deal about its safety.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1382 on: April 07, 2020, 05:25:59 PM »
Came across this in HuffPo-

Trump has been pushing this treatment usually used for malaria and lupus.
Guess who (reportedly) owns an equity stake in a company (Sanofi) that makes hydroxychloroquine?  Yup - Trump.
Who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust as its standard?  Hmmm...

Yeah.... I read that article, but it was a pretty weak connection. Most other places estimate Trump's interest in Sanofi to be at most around $3000. I think the more likely explanation is that Hannity and others were pushing it in order to have a "miracle end" of the virus to avert the shutdown. Trump started spouting it, and now his ego won't let him back off of it.

And plaquenil is not a high-margin drug...
Who the hell knows - this President has been positively opaque about his assets

Quite possible he’s hyping this because there’sa huge upside if he’s right, but relatively little downside is it turns out to have marginal effectiveness. We already know a great deal about its safety.

I tend to agree with FIPurpose on this one, I think Trump just wants to put his base at ease that he didn't f* the country by being woefully unprepared in the face of mounting evidence of a pandemic.  Instead of admitting failure and incompetence, he can say 'look, it really is no big deal, just take a zee pack and you'll be fine'.  Sounds way better than, we have nuthin until that vaccine shows up in 18 months...  still hoping the virus just goes away though and stops killing more people than ever should have died.  Guess it wasn't just the flu.  Sending thoughts and prayers, ciao.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1383 on: April 08, 2020, 04:21:18 AM »
Quote
Remind me of an old joke:  Dems want show how government can lift up the poor, correct for past injustices and make everyone’s lives better, and they want your help getting elected to prove it. Republicans think government is the root of all social dysfunction, that all politicians are corrupt... and they want your vote to prove it!
People judge others on how they would behave themselves.

Wow! When I first saw your post, I thought this was about the inspector general who was fired on Friday night. But this is actually another inspector general. That's two inspectors (general) in five days. So far.

I guess Trump thinks "The tactics of just vomiting so many lies works, so overwhelm them with numbers here, too" ;)

Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1384 on: April 08, 2020, 04:50:03 AM »
Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

If interest rates are negative, it's hard to default by missing an interest payment.

Also, if you issue a 30 year Treasury Bill now that has no hope of being eventually repaid, the problem of refinancing it is for 4 to 8 presidents hence to solve.

The current administration is betting that Keynesian economics still works - that in the long run everyone is dead.


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1385 on: April 08, 2020, 06:19:13 AM »
Quote
Remind me of an old joke:  Dems want show how government can lift up the poor, correct for past injustices and make everyone’s lives better, and they want your help getting elected to prove it. Republicans think government is the root of all social dysfunction, that all politicians are corrupt... and they want your vote to prove it!
People judge others on how they would behave themselves.

Wow! When I first saw your post, I thought this was about the inspector general who was fired on Friday night. But this is actually another inspector general. That's two inspectors (general) in five days. So far.

I guess Trump thinks "The tactics of just vomiting so many lies works, so overwhelm them with numbers here, too" ;)

Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

Was this reply motivated by the fact that Trump fired seven more inspectors general?

Who among us has not wanted to replace an impartial oversight official with one who would be fair?


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1386 on: April 08, 2020, 09:19:25 AM »
Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

If interest rates are negative, it's hard to default by missing an interest payment.

Also, if you issue a 30 year Treasury Bill now that has no hope of being eventually repaid, the problem of refinancing it is for 4 to 8 presidents hence to solve.

The current administration is betting that Keynesian economics still works - that in the long run everyone is dead.

Definitely the Republican interpretation of Keynesian economics - deficit spending when we need it AND cut taxes to make a deficit when we are doing OK.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1387 on: April 08, 2020, 10:15:20 AM »
Definitely the Republican interpretation of Keynesian economics - deficit spending when we need it AND cut taxes to make a deficit when we are doing OK.

Kudlow didn't make it to that chapter in his Economics 101 textbook.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1388 on: April 08, 2020, 10:51:34 AM »
Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

If interest rates are negative, it's hard to default by missing an interest payment.

Also, if you issue a 30 year Treasury Bill now that has no hope of being eventually repaid, the problem of refinancing it is for 4 to 8 presidents hence to solve.

The current administration is betting that Keynesian economics still works - that in the long run everyone is dead.
Keynesian is not "printing as much as you want".
And if you are talking about MMT, it is "the government can "print money" as much as the economy has empty capacities without resulting in inflation."

While this is mathematically right, which is why I like it, I think the human factor would make this (if constantly used) break too, as "the economy" would expect it too much and up production capacity. THAT (if anywhere) is the part where it leads to inflation, since it gets harder and harder to stop the "money printing".
Nothing is harden than the retreat from an unwinnable battle. ;)

But strange that people always forget that private banks practically pring as much money as they want. Always. The government only plays the minor role in that business, so why is nobody talking about the banks?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1389 on: April 08, 2020, 11:25:13 AM »
Was listening to Joe Walsh's podcast ("Fuck Silence") yesterday, and he basically reminded everyone: "This is why we were talking so much about the budget deficit in 2017! We have a lot less margin for this crisis now because of the high deficits we've been running during the boom times..."

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1390 on: April 08, 2020, 11:39:24 AM »
Was listening to Joe Walsh's podcast ("Fuck Silence") yesterday, and he basically reminded everyone: "This is why we were talking so much about the budget deficit in 2017! We have a lot less margin for this crisis now because of the high deficits we've been running during the boom times..."

Exactly. And it's amazing to me that Republicans in Congress have allowed this. I mean, God, it's criminal how short-sighted they were letting Trump's tax cuts happen during a time when they did not need to stimulate the economy.

Now here we are. And anyone with a brain could have predicted it. Not the coronavirus specifically, but that there would be something eventually where we would need to have that wiggle room. Instead we frittered it away because Trump cared only about getting reelected.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1391 on: April 08, 2020, 12:03:53 PM »
Was listening to Joe Walsh's podcast ("Fuck Silence") yesterday, and he basically reminded everyone: "This is why we were talking so much about the budget deficit in 2017! We have a lot less margin for this crisis now because of the high deficits we've been running during the boom times..."

Exactly. And it's amazing to me that Republicans in Congress have allowed this. I mean, God, it's criminal how short-sighted they were letting Trump's tax cuts happen during a time when they did not need to stimulate the economy.

Now here we are. And anyone with a brain could have predicted it. Not the coronavirus specifically, but that there would be something eventually where we would need to have that wiggle room. Instead we frittered it away because Trump cared only about getting reelected.

Republicans have been socially conservative, not fiscally conservative for quite some time.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1392 on: April 08, 2020, 12:12:06 PM »
Was listening to Joe Walsh's podcast ("Fuck Silence") yesterday, and he basically reminded everyone: "This is why we were talking so much about the budget deficit in 2017! We have a lot less margin for this crisis now because of the high deficits we've been running during the boom times..."

Exactly. And it's amazing to me that Republicans in Congress have allowed this. I mean, God, it's criminal how short-sighted they were letting Trump's tax cuts happen during a time when they did not need to stimulate the economy.

Now here we are. And anyone with a brain could have predicted it. Not the coronavirus specifically, but that there would be something eventually where we would need to have that wiggle room. Instead we frittered it away because Trump cared only about getting reelected.

Republicans have been socially conservative, not fiscally conservative for quite some time.

Yes, true. But there is fiscally un-conservative, and then there is just criminally fiscally negligent. This is the latter.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1393 on: April 08, 2020, 01:58:50 PM »
Man I for one am hoping Biden nails Trump to a wall about all of this. There is so much fodder for the debate it should be an utter shit show for Trump. I just hope Biden has his wits about him.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1394 on: April 08, 2020, 02:10:21 PM »
At some point Senate will step up their investigations into Burisma again.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1395 on: April 08, 2020, 02:43:59 PM »
Man I for one am hoping Biden nails Trump to a wall about all of this. There is so much fodder for the debate it should be an utter shit show for Trump. I just hope Biden has his wits about him.

Trump will refute all claims by simply saying: Well, I grew the economy. I made USA great again. Why do you want it to not be great?

and people will continue voting for him.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1396 on: April 08, 2020, 04:24:08 PM »
Quote
and as a 2016 candidate publicly mused that the US could default,

Not that is something I want to see. Not as close as I will unfortunately be, but if you want to shake up the global finance and business world, that is the Mother Of All Bombs!

If interest rates are negative, it's hard to default by missing an interest payment.

Also, if you issue a 30 year Treasury Bill now that has no hope of being eventually repaid, the problem of refinancing it is for 4 to 8 presidents hence to solve.

The current administration is betting that Keynesian economics still works - that in the long run everyone is dead.
Keynesian is not "printing as much as you want".
And if you are talking about MMT, it is "the government can "print money" as much as the economy has empty capacities without resulting in inflation."

I was unclear in referring to the famous quote from John Keynes, rather than the economic theory.

No economic decision matters in the long run because we're all dead.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1397 on: April 08, 2020, 04:33:54 PM »
Man I for one am hoping Biden nails Trump to a wall about all of this. There is so much fodder for the debate it should be an utter shit show for Trump. I just hope Biden has his wits about him.

Trump will refute all claims by simply saying: Well, I grew the economy. I made USA great again. Why do you want it to not be great?

and people will continue voting for him.

Great by assuring the country the Coronavirus is "going to disappear one day" and that "anyone who wants a test can get one?" That doesn't sound great. Maybe great means dismantling the NSC pandemic unit, which could have potentially saved lives. All this despite a report filed by the Center for Strategic & International Studies which claimed that restoring the position on the NSC as one of seven key changes to better protect the American public from global health threats.

Really won't be that hard. Tough to refute claims when they are direct quotes. Yes people will still vote for him. He could shoot someone on 5th avenue and those people would still vote for him.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1398 on: April 08, 2020, 05:35:25 PM »
Man I for one am hoping Biden nails Trump to a wall about all of this. There is so much fodder for the debate it should be an utter shit show for Trump. I just hope Biden has his wits about him.

Trump will refute all claims by simply saying: Well, I grew the economy. I made USA great again. Why do you want it to not be great?

and people will continue voting for him.

Probably... but that line gets a little less effective when you or someone you love is out of a job and your retirement account has plummeted.  Anyone think the economy will be “strong” by this fall?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1399 on: April 08, 2020, 05:44:05 PM »
Was listening to Joe Walsh's podcast ("Fuck Silence") yesterday, and he basically reminded everyone: "This is why we were talking so much about the budget deficit in 2017! We have a lot less margin for this crisis now because of the high deficits we've been running during the boom times..."

Exactly. And it's amazing to me that Republicans in Congress have allowed this. I mean, God, it's criminal how short-sighted they were letting Trump's tax cuts happen during a time when they did not need to stimulate the economy.

Now here we are. And anyone with a brain could have predicted it. Not the coronavirus specifically, but that there would be something eventually where we would need to have that wiggle room. Instead we frittered it away because Trump cared only about getting reelected.

Republicans have been socially conservative, not fiscally conservative for quite some time.

Yes, true. But there is fiscally un-conservative, and then there is just criminally fiscally negligent. This is the latter.

Oh god, this. My only reaction when someone tells me that they are Republican because they are “fiscally conservative” (or “pro-life”) is to nearly fall over laughing. It’s so preposterous. The GOP is neither fiscally conservative nor pro-life. Anyone who thinks it is either should probably consider cult deprogramming.