Author Topic: Trump 2.0  (Read 160479 times)

LaineyAZ

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #900 on: February 15, 2025, 07:56:22 AM »
Another Executive Order, this time stripping funding from schools who require Covid vaccines:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trump-signs-executive-order-stripping-funds-from-schools-requiring-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AA1z4TFf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=79864e8b53cc4429ee74a358c141f9b3&ei=20

I'm sure RFK has more of the same getting prepared as we speak.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #901 on: February 15, 2025, 08:25:56 AM »
As a VA employee im required to get the flu shot every year. I wonder if that's going next. Maybe the way to less healthcare costs is less old people?

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #902 on: February 15, 2025, 08:31:26 AM »
Another Executive Order, this time stripping funding from schools who require Covid vaccines:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trump-signs-executive-order-stripping-funds-from-schools-requiring-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AA1z4TFf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=79864e8b53cc4429ee74a358c141f9b3&ei=20

I'm sure RFK has more of the same getting prepared as we speak.
Less money for schools run by rational folks. Checks out. Blood of Jesus, yessir, that's all the medicine we need/s.

PeteD01

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #903 on: February 15, 2025, 08:56:59 AM »
DJT´s father Fred Trump suffered from dementia in his later years and there are interesting parallels between the two men in their old age.

Particularly, Fred Trump´s behavioral problems were managed by his family by putting him in an office with phones looped back into the administrative suite with no access on outside lines. He was given papers to sign etc. without him understanding anything.

Fred Trump lived for around 15 years after diagnosis and apparently had preserved language function for many years. This is suggestive of frontotemporal dementia behavioral variant.

DJT has similar issues and he appears to be managed similarly, but unfortunately with outside phone lines available to him:


They're treating Trump AS IF he has dementia!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROh40aMomaU

bacchi

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #904 on: February 15, 2025, 09:33:28 AM »
The author says the data are accurate, and collected in a competent way by honest employees. The problem is that our interpretations pre-suppose an older form of the economy than exists now. A specific example is the unemployment statistic counting people as employed regardless of whether their income is sufficient not to be homeless. At the time these measures were devised, having any job meant having a full time job that would pay enough for food and rent. Now many people are employed but unable to earn enough to buy food and shelter.

The stats were also never designed for an environment of extreme income and wealth inequality. Hence the growing difference between medians and means, or between GDP growth and a rapidly declining middle class.

I’ll agree that a full academic article would be more persuasive, with evidence and citations supporting claims that (1) the meanings of the stats have changed over time, such as the quality of employment or the purchasing power of low end wages falling over time, and (2) that specific other metrics could do a better job of explaining the economic picture. Unfortunately it is a politico article, not a journal article or book.

While true, it also reminds me that the un/underemployment rate in the 50s-70s, using the article's definition, could've been just as high as it is now if we consider stay at home wives who wanted to have a job but couldn't because either a) they couldn't find one that fit their schedule (no part-time jobs); or b) couldn't find one because they were actively discriminated against; or c) weren't allowed by their husbands.

To put it another way, if the unemployment rate is currently 23.6% (or whatever), it might well have been just as high in 1964. The author doesn't address changing society at all, at least in the article.

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #905 on: February 15, 2025, 11:11:25 AM »
Federal workforce purge already being felt, especially in rural red areas.

https://x.com/jstein_wapo/status/1890786933065871399

https://archive.li/w5qEj

Republican members of Congress starting to make statements and act like they didn't see this coming.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 11:14:05 AM by Travis »

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #906 on: February 15, 2025, 01:26:08 PM »
Federal workforce purge already being felt, especially in rural red areas.

https://x.com/jstein_wapo/status/1890786933065871399

https://archive.li/w5qEj

Republican members of Congress starting to make statements and act like they didn't see this coming.

These idiots voted for this and like to pretend government are all just evil people doing evil things to turn them all into different genders. Time for these stupid fucks in rural areas, that are heavily subsidized by the federal government, to get completely and totally wrecked.

One thing that gets me is just how cruel they are being about the firings. Like layoffs happen, if trump thinks the workforce is too big, it happens. But the way they are doing this is just cruel and awful. They are also doing it in the dumbest possible way by firing people and seeing what breaks. WIth so much talent and knowledge lost it will take many years for the government to be able to function again after this. These rural areas are pretty much fucked.

At least Herbert is watching it like a hawk!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 01:30:14 PM by sixwings »

Telecaster

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #907 on: February 15, 2025, 05:19:09 PM »
One thing that gets me is just how cruel they are being about the firings.

The cruelty is a feature, not a bug.  Trump wants to show he is willing and able to destroy people's lives. 

Kris

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #908 on: February 15, 2025, 05:20:31 PM »
One thing that gets me is just how cruel they are being about the firings.

The cruelty is a feature, not a bug.  Trump wants to show he is willing and able to destroy people's lives.


Yep. They do that because their base gets off on it.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #909 on: February 15, 2025, 05:27:26 PM »
I have friends in high government places and they said right now it's awful. I'm talking about people who worked their whole lives, with very advanced specialization, doing mission-critical stuff, being treated like garbage.

Travis

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Sandi_k

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #911 on: February 15, 2025, 07:20:52 PM »
So.... now they are trying to contact the nuclear scientists that they canned on Thursday.

Oops?!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-administration-wants-un-fire-nuclear-safety-workers-cant-figure-rcna192345?

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #912 on: February 15, 2025, 07:49:10 PM »

Cassie

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #913 on: February 15, 2025, 08:58:47 PM »
We are going to be vulnerable to terrorist attacks because trump is firing all the competent people and appointing idiots with some of them being traitors.  The government is not going to be able to function properly. We will not have access to decent leadership in the next pandemic and probably won’t have lifesaving services such as vaccines. Many people are going to die from lack of healthcare. Anyone that is living in the USA and isn’t terrified isn’t paying attention.

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #914 on: February 15, 2025, 09:06:20 PM »
Wondering if any conservatives here want to explain Trump tweets about “he who saves the country does not violate any laws” tweet? Seems like a very normal thing for the POTUS to be saying.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #915 on: February 15, 2025, 09:37:43 PM »
Another Executive Order, this time stripping funding from schools who require Covid vaccines:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trump-signs-executive-order-stripping-funds-from-schools-requiring-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AA1z4TFf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=79864e8b53cc4429ee74a358c141f9b3&ei=20

I'm sure RFK has more of the same getting prepared as we speak.
Less money for schools run by rational folks. Checks out. Blood of Jesus, yessir, that's all the medicine we need/s.
You're exaggerating the risk of Covid to children, and claiming it was irrational not to vaccinate them.  That's not what the data indicates - a rational decision maker could decide not to vaccinate children.

"Older adults are at highest risk of getting very sick from COVID-19. More than 81% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people over age 65. The number of deaths among people over age 65 is 97 times higher than among people ages 18-29 years."
https://www.cdc.gov/covid/risk-factors/index.html

shuffler

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #916 on: February 15, 2025, 10:21:39 PM »
Another Executive Order, this time stripping funding from schools who require Covid vaccines:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trump-signs-executive-order-stripping-funds-from-schools-requiring-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AA1z4TFf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=79864e8b53cc4429ee74a358c141f9b3&ei=20

I'm sure RFK has more of the same getting prepared as we speak.
Less money for schools run by rational folks. Checks out. Blood of Jesus, yessir, that's all the medicine we need/s.
You're exaggerating the risk of Covid to children, and claiming it was irrational not to vaccinate them.  That's not what the data indicates - a rational decision maker could decide not to vaccinate children.

"Older adults are at highest risk of getting very sick from COVID-19. More than 81% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people over age 65. The number of deaths among people over age 65 is 97 times higher than among people ages 18-29 years."
https://www.cdc.gov/covid/risk-factors/index.html
It is beyond me how someone (like you) can have gone through the whole damn pandemic and still not understand this stuff.

The covid-19 vaccine is safe for non-immunocompromised people aged 6mo and older.
The CDC recommends children age 6mo and older get the vaccine.
Death isn't the only negative outcome (even for children) to protect against.
Unimmunized people (incl children) act as a disease reservoir and lower herd immunity.  Those kids probably like having their parents and grandparents around.  Their infant siblings, too.
Unimmunized people (incl children) increase the opportunity for viral mutation and the spawning of new variants.

Rational people get vaccinated.
Rational societies achieve herd immunity.

Please enjoy the current measles outbreak in Texas.  Most children don't die from the measles either.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 10:57:16 PM by shuffler »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #917 on: February 16, 2025, 08:03:03 AM »
I'm old, I was a child in prevaccine times.

Most children don't die from measles.   They are just miserably sick and some have their vision damaged.

Vaccines have worked so well, people have forgotten the before times. My parents were thrilled when polio vaccines came out.

That was about it. My sister and I had measles (horrible), Chickenpox (it took 60 years for my pock scars to disappear) and mumps.  Mumps isn't bad in children but it can cause sterility in adult men.  Chickenpox virus hides and comes back as shingles.  German measles in pregnant women causes birth defects.  Whooping cough (pertussis) and diptheria can kill babies.  TDAP is the vaccine for them.

I vaccinated DD for everything at the recommended ages. DD is vaccinating her child as recommended.

Not vaccinating a child who can be vaccinated is, in my mind, neglect and indirect child abuse.  Not to mention how it makes life dangerous for those who medically cannot be vaccinated and/or have compromised immune systems.

Rant over.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #918 on: February 16, 2025, 09:57:46 AM »
Another Executive Order, this time stripping funding from schools who require Covid vaccines:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trump-signs-executive-order-stripping-funds-from-schools-requiring-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AA1z4TFf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=79864e8b53cc4429ee74a358c141f9b3&ei=20

I'm sure RFK has more of the same getting prepared as we speak.
Less money for schools run by rational folks. Checks out. Blood of Jesus, yessir, that's all the medicine we need/s.
You're exaggerating the risk of Covid to children, and claiming it was irrational not to vaccinate them.  That's not what the data indicates - a rational decision maker could decide not to vaccinate children.

"Older adults are at highest risk of getting very sick from COVID-19. More than 81% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people over age 65. The number of deaths among people over age 65 is 97 times higher than among people ages 18-29 years."
https://www.cdc.gov/covid/risk-factors/index.html
It is beyond me how someone (like you) can have gone through the whole damn pandemic and still not understand this stuff.

The covid-19 vaccine is safe for non-immunocompromised people aged 6mo and older.
The CDC recommends children age 6mo and older get the vaccine.
Death isn't the only negative outcome (even for children) to protect against.
Unimmunized people (incl children) act as a disease reservoir and lower herd immunity.  Those kids probably like having their parents and grandparents around.  Their infant siblings, too.
Unimmunized people (incl children) increase the opportunity for viral mutation and the spawning of new variants.

Rational people get vaccinated.
Rational societies achieve herd immunity.

Please enjoy the current measles outbreak in Texas.  Most children don't die from the measles either.
I'm confident you know less about Sars-cov-2 than I do.  For starters, did you recall the name of the virus without looking it up?  Do you know Covid vaccines generate spike proteins - without the virus - to trigger the body's defense system whenever it sees that spike protein?  Yeah, I'm confident you know less than I do.

Notice how you say "Death isn't the only negative outcome", and introduce something that can be debated.  Are you claiming anyone who disagrees with you can't be rational?

Early on, a mistake was made in claiming the vaccine gave immunity - it didn't.  It was claimed the virus couldn't spread from people who got the vaccine - also false.  That view had to drop to a fallback position that hospitalization and death was far rarer with people who took the vaccine.  That should have been the emphasis from the start, but the vaccine's power was overstated.

When those on the left and right were surveyed about Covid-19, those on the left thought the chance of hospitalization was 50%.  It was 5%.  All the alarms and fear caused those on the left to completely overestimate the harms.  Like in your post, "kinds probably like having their parents and grandparents around", which shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?  You treat their death as a certainty, when very few people died in that age group.

I don't live in Texas, and I preferred Kamala Harris over Trump.  But I also think people label each other "irrational" with exaggerated, false claims like in this conversation.

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #919 on: February 16, 2025, 10:28:11 AM »
Imagine being wrong about everything in your professional career as an economist and then venturing your opinion into agriculture.

https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3licmezmmfj2o

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Hassett

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #920 on: February 16, 2025, 10:33:57 AM »
Western Area Power workforce gutted. One of my friends works in FEMA adjacent to this group and mentioned this last night before it went public.



https://x.com/SenatorHeinrich/status/1890884742125347305

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #921 on: February 16, 2025, 11:15:48 AM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #922 on: February 16, 2025, 11:51:34 AM »
Early on, a mistake was made in claiming the vaccine gave immunity - it didn't.  It was claimed the virus couldn't spread from people who got the vaccine - also false.  That view had to drop to a fallback position that hospitalization and death was far rarer with people who took the vaccine.  That should have been the emphasis from the start, but the vaccine's power was overstated.

What is immunity? I suppose you are talking about how vaccinated people cannot infect other people (rare cases ignores).
Well, at that time, it was right.
The vaccine gave (nearly) transmission immunity against the beta branch it was based on - according to the short time clinical trials. Of course the trials could not say anything about the effectiveness a year later. But far more important was the change to other lines of the virus, which changed some things - it was more infectuous and you weren't transmission blocked, partly because the virus attack earlier in the mouth/throat.

And you talk about "once you are vaccinated you are compeletely save from dying" - nobody responsible ever said that. I have no idea where that myth comes from and why it never dies. (And yes, you can find a doctor who stated otherwise. Doctors stated on TV that smoking was good for your health. You always find someone.)

Quote
When those on the left and right were surveyed about Covid-19, those on the left thought the chance of hospitalization was 50%.  It was 5%.  All the alarms and fear caused those on the left to completely overestimate the harms.  Like in your post, "kinds probably like having their parents and grandparents around", which shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?  You treat their death as a certainty, when very few people died in that age group.
Now that is a myth I have not heard. When and how were which people asked? And who is "the left" here? Just asking because I remember reading that people "on the right" thought Covid does not kill anyone and even if it did, it's all a hoax.

Averything you wrote stinks like Trump echo chamber propaganda. Some cherrypicked datapoints that are not representative and then drawn out like bread dought to fit the narrative.

Quote
Like in your post, "kinds probably like having their parents and grandparents around", which shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?
And why did you ignore the important point of that sentence? The word "grandparents"? Those 60+ who are vastly more likely to die and who were the main argument at the time, not the parents?

PeteD01

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #923 on: February 16, 2025, 12:52:36 PM »

Quote
When those on the left and right were surveyed about Covid-19, those on the left thought the chance of hospitalization was 50%.  It was 5%.  All the alarms and fear caused those on the left to completely overestimate the harms.

Now that is a myth I have not heard. When and how were which people asked? And who is "the left" here? Just asking because I remember reading that people "on the right" thought Covid does not kill anyone and even if it did, it's all a hoax.

How a group of people assesses a risk is not relevant if the objective is the determination of actual risk. Here the 50% just serves as an anchor to make 5% look small.
If you want to get a handle on actual risk and wish to put it in context, a comparison with other infectious diseases is appropriate.
This flu season we have had about 24M cases and 310K hospitalizations with 13K deaths so far. This translates into a hospitalization rate of 1.3%, indicating a a three fold higher risk of hospitalization from Covid infection than from flu infection.

Then there is the immunologically naive population in which Covid spreads as an airborne illness with very high infectivity and one ends up with an average of about 350K deaths over a three years period, from 2020 to 2023.

The flu season is not yet over so let's just add another 7K to the 13K flu deaths and we get to about 18 times the risk of dying from the flu for Covid.

Given that the healthcare system is already strained during severe flu seasons, a disease pushing hospitalizations up by an order of magnitude should lead to massive disruptions in the delivery of care, possibly beyond the breaking point of the system.

Funny thing, this is exactly what happened.

But look, 5% is nothing ...

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #924 on: February 16, 2025, 01:21:16 PM »
FAA employee warning about how the layoffs are affecting them

https://bskye.app/profile/rickperlstein.bsky.social/post/3lid2awm2k226

mtnrider

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #925 on: February 16, 2025, 01:44:21 PM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Ouch.  It really does look like Trump and Musk are at war with science.  And the well-being of humanity.

I had been wondering where all this anti-intellectualism was going to take us.  Now I wonder how much worse it could get.


shuffler

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #926 on: February 16, 2025, 02:22:47 PM »
I'm confident you know less about Sars-cov-2 than I do.  For starters, did you recall the name of the virus without looking it up?  Do you know Covid vaccines generate spike proteins - without the virus - to trigger the body's defense system whenever it sees that spike protein?  Yeah, I'm confident you know less than I do.
Oh shiiiiiit.  Check out the big brain on Brad!  Very smart special boy.  Quarterback of the football team at Armchair University, no doubt.
Yes.  i know all that.  Everyone knows all that.  How do you not know that everyone knows all that?!?
That "I are smrt" is your response is ... illuminating.


Mod Note: Forum rule number 1, please.

Are you claiming anyone who disagrees with you can't be rational?
Never said anything like that.  I noted the CDC's recommendations.

Early on, a mistake was made in claiming the vaccine gave immunity - it didn't.  It was claimed the virus couldn't spread from people who got the vaccine - also false.  That view had to drop to a fallback position that hospitalization and death was far rarer with people who took the vaccine.  That should have been the emphasis from the start, but the vaccine's power was overstated.
This is irrelevant to whether a rational person should get vaccinated today.

"kids probably like having their parents and grandparents around", shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?  You treat their death as a certainty, when very few people died in that age group.
The point I was making was to highlight the vulnerable people in community with unvaccinated children.  I highlighted the aged, and the very young who cannot yet get the vaccine.  A third susceptible population is the immunocompromised, which was my intent in including the parents.  This should have been clear on its own, but also because I referenced herd immunity just prior to listing the parents, infants, and elderly.  I guess I didn't spell it out enough for you.  Oh well.  I suppose you don't care about the more clearly stated elderly and infants, since you didn't mention them.  Don't forget the immunocompromised going forward, now that you understand my intent.

I don't live in Texas
Good for you?

I preferred Kamala Harris over Trump.
Irrelevant.
I mean, it's great that you know enough to take your hand off a hot stove, but your political preferences are hardly relevant to vaccine guidance.

But I also think people label each other "irrational" ...
Don't care.

... with exaggerated false claims like in this conversation.
You've fully failed demonstrate anything of the sort.  As a genius, you shouldn't need me to tell you that.

I won't be responding further.  I think you've outed your own overconfidence.  I'd prefer the thread continue with the full spectrum of fresh horrors, and not rathole on a point that is obvious to everyone else in the room.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 08:09:27 AM by arebelspy »

Cassie

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #927 on: February 16, 2025, 02:26:36 PM »
FAA employee warning about how the layoffs are affecting them

https://bskye.app/profile/rickperlstein.bsky.social/post/3lid2awm2k226

Thanks for posting this. It’s terrifying but confirms my suspicions that flying isn’t safe.

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #928 on: February 16, 2025, 05:21:50 PM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Ouch.  It really does look like Trump and Musk are at war with science.  And the well-being of humanity.

I had been wondering where all this anti-intellectualism was going to take us.  Now I wonder how much worse it could get.

TBH this is probably one of the biggest impacts. Science advancement will be completed ceded to the Chinese who are making massive investments in science to lead the fusion, AI and space races and the destruction of the US Science programs gives them complete control. It already appears they are ahead in AI.

I'm hoping that from this mess a stronger more united EU can emerge as a third great power and counterbalance to the US and China. They have the GDP, population and education for it, but it's hard with all the individual countries and their own competing priorities.

MrGreen

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #929 on: February 16, 2025, 09:28:08 PM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Ouch.  It really does look like Trump and Musk are at war with science.  And the well-being of humanity.

I had been wondering where all this anti-intellectualism was going to take us.  Now I wonder how much worse it could get.

TBH this is probably one of the biggest impacts. Science advancement will be completed ceded to the Chinese who are making massive investments in science to lead the fusion, AI and space races and the destruction of the US Science programs gives them complete control. It already appears they are ahead in AI.

I'm hoping that from this mess a stronger more united EU can emerge as a third great power and counterbalance to the US and China. They have the GDP, population and education for it, but it's hard with all the individual countries and their own competing priorities.
So much for "America first", eh? I feel like this administration is re-enacting the Darwin award winner who cut his own head off with a chainsaw on a drunken bet.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2025, 09:29:50 PM by MrGreen »

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #930 on: February 16, 2025, 10:37:28 PM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Ouch.  It really does look like Trump and Musk are at war with science.  And the well-being of humanity.

I had been wondering where all this anti-intellectualism was going to take us.  Now I wonder how much worse it could get.

TBH this is probably one of the biggest impacts. Science advancement will be completed ceded to the Chinese who are making massive investments in science to lead the fusion, AI and space races and the destruction of the US Science programs gives them complete control. It already appears they are ahead in AI.

I'm hoping that from this mess a stronger more united EU can emerge as a third great power and counterbalance to the US and China. They have the GDP, population and education for it, but it's hard with all the individual countries and their own competing priorities.
So much for "America first", eh? I feel like this administration is re-enacting the Darwin award winner who cut his own head off with a chainsaw on a drunken bet.

Well the good news is that JD Vance is also invested inAcretrader which is an app that sells farmland to foreign investors and makes the previous owners employees. So, stopping the funding of farms to bankrupt them and sell the land to foreign investors so the VP can make a buck makes a lot more sense. The smash and grab continues, all voted for and endorsed by farmers!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2025, 10:43:19 PM by sixwings »

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #931 on: February 17, 2025, 12:07:42 AM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Ouch.  It really does look like Trump and Musk are at war with science.  And the well-being of humanity.

I had been wondering where all this anti-intellectualism was going to take us.  Now I wonder how much worse it could get.
Don't worry, China has you covered. For years they have been the country with the most patents.  They even have more stealth planes than the US now! (If you count flyable prototypes)
Quote
I'm hoping that from this mess a stronger more united EU can emerge as a third great power and counterbalance to the US and China. They have the GDP, population and education for it, but it's hard with all the individual countries and their own competing priorities.
Won't happen. We have our own problems and besides we are a lot less competetive. Work to live, not live to work. I am sure any mustachian can understant that sentiment.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #932 on: February 17, 2025, 04:14:06 AM »
Early on, a mistake was made in claiming the vaccine gave immunity - it didn't.  It was claimed the virus couldn't spread from people who got the vaccine - also false.  That view had to drop to a fallback position that hospitalization and death was far rarer with people who took the vaccine.  That should have been the emphasis from the start, but the vaccine's power was overstated.

What is immunity? I suppose you are talking about how vaccinated people cannot infect other people (rare cases ignores).
Well, at that time, it was right.
The vaccine gave (nearly) transmission immunity against the beta branch it was based on - according to the short time clinical trials. Of course the trials could not say anything about the effectiveness a year later. But far more important was the change to other lines of the virus, which changed some things - it was more infectuous and you weren't transmission blocked, partly because the virus attack earlier in the mouth/throat.

And you talk about "once you are vaccinated you are compeletely save from dying" - nobody responsible ever said that. I have no idea where that myth comes from and why it never dies. (And yes, you can find a doctor who stated otherwise. Doctors stated on TV that smoking was good for your health. You always find someone.)
Immunity means being immune - not getting infected.  The mRNA vaccines both provided immunity of 90-95%, meaning it reduced the chance of catching Covid-19 dramatically, so that was the headline.  As variants arose, protection from hospitalization and death remained, even as more vaccinated people got infected.

You know who else didn't say "completely[sic] save from dying"?  Me.  You're falsely quoting something I never said.  What I said, from the post you replied, was "death was far rarer".  Don't lie about what I said.  Others can view my post above, and see that you misquoted me.


Quote
When those on the left and right were surveyed about Covid-19, those on the left thought the chance of hospitalization was 50%.  It was 5%.  All the alarms and fear caused those on the left to completely overestimate the harms.  Like in your post, "kinds probably like having their parents and grandparents around", which shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?  You treat their death as a certainty, when very few people died in that age group.
Now that is a myth I have not heard. When and how were which people asked? And who is "the left" here? Just asking because I remember reading that people "on the right" thought Covid does not kill anyone and even if it did, it's all a hoax.

Averything you wrote stinks like Trump echo chamber propaganda. Some cherrypicked datapoints that are not representative and then drawn out like bread dought to fit the narrative.
In the U.S., the left refers to Democrats or Liberals.  Gallop polled Democrats, and 41% of them claimed there was a "50% or higher" chance of hospitalization.
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimates-covid-hospitalization-risk.aspx

Is Gallup "Trump echo chamber propaganda"?  As for "cherry picking", I'll stick with Gallup's poll of 30,000 people over your personal beliefs.


Quote
Like in your post, "kinds probably like having their parents and grandparents around", which shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?
And why did you ignore the important point of that sentence? The word "grandparents"? Those 60+ who are vastly more likely to die and who were the main argument at the time, not the parents?
My point was the other poster's ignorance, claiming "parents" would die if a child didn't get vaccinated.  It reflects the same ignorance shown in the Gallup poll, above.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #933 on: February 17, 2025, 04:44:31 AM »
I'm confident you know less about Sars-cov-2 than I do.  For starters, did you recall the name of the virus without looking it up?  Do you know Covid vaccines generate spike proteins - without the virus - to trigger the body's defense system whenever it sees that spike protein?  Yeah, I'm confident you know less than I do.
Oh shiiiiiit.  Check out the big brain on Brad!  Very smart special boy.  Quarterback of the football team at Armchair University, no doubt.
Yes.  i know all that.  Everyone knows all that.  How do you not know that everyone knows all that?!?
That "I are smrt" is your response is ... illuminating.
Reminder of the forum rules, which say to avoid "ad hominem" and "name calling".
"2. Attack an argument, not a person."
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/forum-rules/

You called me ignorant (see quote below), which is why my knowledge of Covid-19 is relevant.

It is beyond me how someone (like you) can have gone through the whole damn pandemic and still not understand this stuff.


Are you claiming anyone who disagrees with you can't be rational?
Never said anything like that.  I noted the CDC's recommendations.

You said "rational people get vaccinated", meaning people who don't get vaccinated aren't rational.  This is also within a conversation where an earlier poster claimed some schools have "rational folks".  Both comments quoted below, so you can't pretend you "never said anything like that".

Less money for schools run by rational folks. Checks out. Blood of Jesus, yessir, that's all the medicine we need/s.
Rational people get vaccinated.
Rational societies achieve herd immunity.


"kids probably like having their parents and grandparents around", shows your ignorance of the risk to parents.  What was the risk of death from those in their 30s and 40s?  You treat their death as a certainty, when very few people died in that age group.
The point I was making was to highlight the vulnerable people in community with unvaccinated children.  I highlighted the aged, and the very young who cannot yet get the vaccine.  A third susceptible population is the immunocompromised, which was my intent in including the parents.  This should have been clear on its own, but also because I referenced herd immunity just prior to listing the parents, infants, and elderly.  I guess I didn't spell it out enough for you.  Oh well.  I suppose you don't care about the more clearly stated elderly and infants, since you didn't mention them.  Don't forget the immunocompromised going forward, now that you understand my intent.
You made a sarcastic remark with false information.  You didn't understand the risk of death, and now that I point it out, you know your information was wrong.  So suddenly you try and backpedal and claim you intended a word you didn't use.  You claim you "didn't spell it out enough", which is another false statement - you didn't spell it out at all - you never said "immunocompromised" in your earlier reply.  The meaning of your sentences doesn't include words you never typed.  And as an side, you claimed "infant siblings" were also likely to die, when they have the lowest risk of dying compared to anyone.

PeteD01

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #934 on: February 17, 2025, 05:41:53 AM »
...

Immunity means being immune - not getting infected. The mRNA vaccines both provided immunity of 90-95%, meaning it reduced the chance of catching Covid-19 dramatically, so that was the headline.  As variants arose, protection from hospitalization and death remained, even as more vaccinated people got infected.

...

In one paragraph you demonstrate your ignorance of the concept of partial immunity and then go on to describe the evolution of partial immunity against Covid over time ...
Reasoning does not appear to be your forte.

For the record; Immunity is not an on and off switch but a continuum in several domains.

An example would be the Pneumovax anti-pneumococcal vaccine which protects against the septic complications of pneumococcal pneumonia but does not prevent the pneumonia itself and yet is considered a decent vaccine, even while it is only somewhat over 50% effective.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 06:45:10 AM by PeteD01 »

LaineyAZ

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #935 on: February 17, 2025, 06:57:41 AM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Thanks for posting.  Really gives details on the scope of what's being lost.   Permanently.
 
Also shows the impact of the anti-intellectualism that pervades this administration and so much of the U.S.

SunnyDays

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #936 on: February 17, 2025, 08:43:19 AM »
This thread is one of the most professionally and personally upsetting I've ever read.


https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ipsasx/firing_the_next_generation_of_scientists_from_the/

Thanks for posting.  Really gives details on the scope of what's being lost.   Permanently.
 
Also shows the impact of the anti-intellectualism that pervades this administration and so much of the U.S.

Seems like the government needs to bring everyone down to their level.  Can’t have the serfs being smarter than the lords!

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #937 on: February 17, 2025, 09:38:12 AM »
Those National Park Service layoffs include first responders

https://bsky.app/profile/larrytenney.bsky.social/post/3liesbai2pc2a

jrhampt

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #938 on: February 17, 2025, 10:06:06 AM »
Federal workforce purge already being felt, especially in rural red areas.

https://x.com/jstein_wapo/status/1890786933065871399

https://archive.li/w5qEj

Republican members of Congress starting to make statements and act like they didn't see this coming.

These idiots voted for this and like to pretend government are all just evil people doing evil things to turn them all into different genders. Time for these stupid fucks in rural areas, that are heavily subsidized by the federal government, to get completely and totally wrecked.

One thing that gets me is just how cruel they are being about the firings. Like layoffs happen, if trump thinks the workforce is too big, it happens. But the way they are doing this is just cruel and awful. They are also doing it in the dumbest possible way by firing people and seeing what breaks. WIth so much talent and knowledge lost it will take many years for the government to be able to function again after this. These rural areas are pretty much fucked.

At least Herbert is watching it like a hawk!

Agreed.  It's just sad, and I'm in a blue area.  Government isn't just some abstract thing, these are my friends and my neighbors who work for the labor dept, the coast guard, the dept of ed, the national guard, etc.  In public service.  It's mean, it's destroying a system that benefits so many people, and it's destroying people's lives.  I can only hope that people in red states come to realize this as they feel the effects, too.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 10:11:40 AM by jrhampt »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #939 on: February 17, 2025, 10:13:20 AM »
Seems like the government needs to bring everyone down to their level.  Can’t have the serfs being smarter than the lords!

This is pure conjecture borne of sitting on the front porch and listening to the countryside the other night:

Could it be that the billionaires and millionaires privately accept that the environment is in fact at risk from human consumption, and they want to push everyone back to lifestyles/wealth levels typical of 75-100 years ago? Of course, the oligarchs would continue to live luxury lifestyles but at least the natural world wouldn't be on the cusp of collapse b/c we'd be back to living in tiny cottages, owning one or no cars, lower population, etc.

It seems that everything the ruling class wants to ruin would push us in that direction - the lifestyle of the working person 75-100 years ago.

At least some of them do. That’s the conjecture of “dark gothic MAGA” in Musk’s parlance. I posted about this a few weeks ago. Neofeudalism, principalities controlled by tech oligarchs. There is also a book called Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires. https://rushkoff.com/books/survival-of-the-richest-escape-fantasies-of-the-tech-billionaires/

While the thesis of that book is thin, what I found interesting is that these billionaires building bunkers are working with consultants to figure out how to ensure loyalty and control uprisings once they are ensconced in their bunkers. That implies the obvious: Not enough resources for everyone.

As I posted before, one fracture is between the russofascist seditionists of Trump 1.0 and the techfeudalist seditionists of Trump 2.0. There is overlap, and still plenty of Russian-aligned individuals in the second term cabinet, more overt Nazis and Christians than the first term. Many of the first term cabinet went to prison and those who didn’t now claim to be against Trump (e.g. Pence, not surprisingly). They mostly seem like sniveling opportunistic cowards. Is one of them a future Yevgeny Prigozhin (which worked out badly for Prigozhin)?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 10:15:50 AM by Fru-Gal »

sonofsven

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #940 on: February 17, 2025, 10:22:49 AM »
Seems like the government needs to bring everyone down to their level.  Can’t have the serfs being smarter than the lords!

This is pure conjecture borne of sitting on the front porch and listening to the countryside the other night:

Could it be that the billionaires and millionaires privately accept that the environment is in fact at risk from human consumption, and they want to push everyone back to lifestyles/wealth levels typical of 75-100 years ago? Of course, the oligarchs would continue to live luxury lifestyles but at least the natural world wouldn't be on the cusp of collapse b/c we'd be back to living in tiny cottages, owning one or no cars, lower population, etc.

It seems that everything the ruling class wants to ruin would push us in that direction - the lifestyle of the working person 75-100 years ago.

At least some of them do. That’s the conjecture of “dark gothic MAGA” in Musk’s parlance. I posted about this a few weeks ago. Neofeudalism, principalities controlled by tech oligarchs. There is also a book called Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires. https://rushkoff.com/books/survival-of-the-richest-escape-fantasies-of-the-tech-billionaires/

While the thesis of that book is thin, what I found interesting is that these billionaires building bunkers are working with consultants to figure out how to ensure loyalty and control uprisings once they are ensconced in their bunkers. That implies the obvious: Not enough resources for everyone.

As I posted before, one fracture is between the russofascist seditionists of Trump 1.0 and the techfeudalist seditionists of Trump 2.0. There is overlap, and still plenty of Russian-aligned individuals in the second term cabinet, more overt Nazis and Christians than the first term. Many of the first term cabinet went to prison and those who didn’t now claim to be against Trump (e.g. Pence, not surprisingly). They mostly seem like sniveling opportunistic cowards. Is one of them a future Yevgeny Prigozhin (which worked out badly for Prigozhin)?
The main problem they have is how to keep the armed mercs they hire for their security teams from attacking the "masters".

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #941 on: February 17, 2025, 10:38:54 AM »
Seems like the government needs to bring everyone down to their level.  Can’t have the serfs being smarter than the lords!

This is pure conjecture borne of sitting on the front porch and listening to the countryside the other night:

Could it be that the billionaires and millionaires privately accept that the environment is in fact at risk from human consumption, and they want to push everyone back to lifestyles/wealth levels typical of 75-100 years ago? Of course, the oligarchs would continue to live luxury lifestyles but at least the natural world wouldn't be on the cusp of collapse b/c we'd be back to living in tiny cottages, owning one or no cars, lower population, etc.

It seems that everything the ruling class wants to ruin would push us in that direction - the lifestyle of the working person 75-100 years ago.

At least some of them do. That’s the conjecture of “dark gothic MAGA” in Musk’s parlance. I posted about this a few weeks ago. Neofeudalism, principalities controlled by tech oligarchs. There is also a book called Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires. https://rushkoff.com/books/survival-of-the-richest-escape-fantasies-of-the-tech-billionaires/

While the thesis of that book is thin, what I found interesting is that these billionaires building bunkers are working with consultants to figure out how to ensure loyalty and control uprisings once they are ensconced in their bunkers. That implies the obvious: Not enough resources for everyone.

As I posted before, one fracture is between the russofascist seditionists of Trump 1.0 and the techfeudalist seditionists of Trump 2.0. There is overlap, and still plenty of Russian-aligned individuals in the second term cabinet, more overt Nazis and Christians than the first term. Many of the first term cabinet went to prison and those who didn’t now claim to be against Trump (e.g. Pence, not surprisingly). They mostly seem like sniveling opportunistic cowards. Is one of them a future Yevgeny Prigozhin (which worked out badly for Prigozhin)?
The main problem they have is how to keep the armed mercs they hire for their security teams from attacking the "masters".

Yep.

The irony is, there is currently more than enough for everyone. And Buckminster Fuller’s concept of ephemeralism, of “doing more and more with less and less” could ensure that we could use technology to make our resource consumption maximally efficient. Birth rates are dropping worldwide.

There COULD be enough, but the oligarchs are now playing a game of Risk amongst themselves. If they had only been happy with their rockets, fleets of satellites and yachts, but that wasn’t enough. They had to meddle with the rest of us. We are lulled into complacency thanks to automated lifestyles that are essentially no different from theirs, at a scale never before seen in modern humanity. But threatening that, destroying that “opiate” of comfort? I don’t think it will go well for them.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #942 on: February 17, 2025, 11:24:21 AM »
For those who think Canadians may be being a bit paranoid:

Putin: Ukraine is not a viable nation.
Trump: Canada is not a viable nation.

I really hope this administration collapses before we have to see if he will resort to military force, if/when economic force doesn't work.  I have no idea where future President Vance stands on this, but given his recent activities in Europe I don't have much hope there either.

The US has often been very isolationist - hence why it was so slow entering both WWI and WWII.  I guess unless things change drastically very soon it will be isolated again, just not as much by its own choice.  Which in a sense explains why this administration wants Canada and Greenland.  If a county is going to go its own way it needs as many internal resources as possible.  Right now Canada and Greenland, both rich in resources, are not internal.  Trump would like them to be.

I used to think RAH wrote SF. Now I think he had a really good thumb on the psyche of many Americans.  So much of his SF had the US in basically total isolation, and usually religious isolation, or theocracy - or broken up into smaller countries as blocks of states left the union.  Did he have a machine where he could read news from the future?    ;-)

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #943 on: February 17, 2025, 11:58:44 AM »
I don’t think there is a true design by Trump/Vance on resources. Putin DOES have a big resource concern, and unfortunately, as Paul Ryan told the GOP insiders so many years ago, “I think Putin pays Trump”. The bellicose talk is designed to fray alliances and destroy NATO. It definitely should be taken seriously by all parties.

Acquiring resources would be a bonus for Trump, but in a country with slowing population growth like the US, we have no way to control or occupy these territories, much less with a federal government that is hollowed out.

(Note that in principal I have nothing against smaller, more efficient government at any level of society.)

https://archive.ph/cdv1D
House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump

« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 12:05:15 PM by Fru-Gal »

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #944 on: February 17, 2025, 12:28:47 PM »
I don’t think we need to be too worried about that tbh. An invasion of Canada is how the US ends, I don’t think that’s even in the remote realm of possibility. Trump is not that popular, and it’s not clear that the military would even go along with it given the levels of cooperation and integration between the two militaries. An order to invade Canada could very well fracture the military. The international sanctions that would descend upon the US would create a massive depression that would make the Great Depression look like nothing. Energy costs would skyrocket as energy imports from Canada completely stop, as would the price of food. Mexico would likely lock down their border and send their military there, after all if the US is willing to invade Canada what would they be willing to do to Mexico and all trade between those countries would stop.  The world would like ditch the USD as the currency reserve causing a massive sell on USD and hyperinflation in the US. Turmoil and disruption across the country as the country is plunged into a war that even MAGA doesn’t actually want. Some states may not comply with allowing the military through its borders, like I doubt WA or NY is going to be down with that, michigans entire economy relies on trade with Canada and they would cease to exist and face almost complete unemployment along with a war directly on their borders. It’s literally how we end up with a Canadian federation of Canada + west coast + north east and a USA that is just the south and central red states.

I don’t think there’s actually much strategy regarding the Canada stuff and what he has been saying/doing about Canada is very unpopular. I think it’s literally his ego that he’s mad at Canadians for making fun of him and hates Trudeau because of all the memes about how melania and ivanka look at Trudeau and he’s willing to plunge both countries into a depression over it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 12:54:26 PM by sixwings »

jrhampt

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #945 on: February 17, 2025, 04:32:46 PM »
Yeah, I’m fairly certain Canada has always been more popular here than Trump.  I can’t imagine that going well for him. We’re already pretty disgusted with his tariff war.

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #946 on: February 17, 2025, 09:26:08 PM »
Opinion piece arguing Rubio is just a Trump/Musk mouthpiece at this point. Most of his messaging is word for word theirs and his plans for the State Department are basically just DOGE/Project 2025 scripts.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/02/17/marco-rubio-state-department-toosi-00204407

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #947 on: February 18, 2025, 01:19:58 AM »
Sorry about Trump, Canadians.

Americans like Canada almost as much as Canadians do:

"In general, Americans like Canada. 76% of Americans have a very or somewhat favorable view of Canada, while 13% have a very or somewhat unfavorable view. That's not too different from Canadians' view of their own country: 81% of Canadians have a favorable view of Canada and 14% have a negative view."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/51505-most-canadians-many-americans-oppose-canada-joining-us

That polling also has entries for Canada and Greenland.  Meanwhile, Americans views of President Trump:

"Overall, 47% of U.S. adults approve of how Trump is handling his job as president, while 51% say they disapprove."
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/02/07/trumps-second-term-early-ratings-and-expectations/

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #948 on: February 18, 2025, 07:28:57 AM »
Sorry about Trump, Canadians.

Americans like Canada almost as much as Canadians do:

"In general, Americans like Canada. 76% of Americans have a very or somewhat favorable view of Canada, while 13% have a very or somewhat unfavorable view. That's not too different from Canadians' view of their own country: 81% of Canadians have a favorable view of Canada and 14% have a negative view."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/51505-most-canadians-many-americans-oppose-canada-joining-us

That polling also has entries for Canada and Greenland.  Meanwhile, Americans views of President Trump:

"Overall, 47% of U.S. adults approve of how Trump is handling his job as president, while 51% say they disapprove."
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/02/07/trumps-second-term-early-ratings-and-expectations/
Approval ratings will drop even more as voters in economically challenged, blood red states learn that they get more from the Fed than they pay in. If Musk breaks Social Security, it'll be real bad for Trump.

AJDZee

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #949 on: February 18, 2025, 07:38:56 AM »
I don’t think we need to be too worried about that tbh. An invasion of Canada is how the US ends, I don’t think that’s even in the remote realm of possibility. Trump is not that popular, and it’s not clear that the military would even go along with it given the levels of cooperation and integration between the two militaries. An order to invade Canada could very well fracture the military. The international sanctions that would descend upon the US would create a massive depression that would make the Great Depression look like nothing. Energy costs would skyrocket as energy imports from Canada completely stop, as would the price of food. Mexico would likely lock down their border and send their military there, after all if the US is willing to invade Canada what would they be willing to do to Mexico and all trade between those countries would stop.  The world would like ditch the USD as the currency reserve causing a massive sell on USD and hyperinflation in the US. Turmoil and disruption across the country as the country is plunged into a war that even MAGA doesn’t actually want. Some states may not comply with allowing the military through its borders, like I doubt WA or NY is going to be down with that, michigans entire economy relies on trade with Canada and they would cease to exist and face almost complete unemployment along with a war directly on their borders. It’s literally how we end up with a Canadian federation of Canada + west coast + north east and a USA that is just the south and central red states.

I don’t think there’s actually much strategy regarding the Canada stuff and what he has been saying/doing about Canada is very unpopular. I think it’s literally his ego that he’s mad at Canadians for making fun of him and hates Trudeau because of all the memes about how melania and ivanka look at Trudeau and he’s willing to plunge both countries into a depression over it.

I say this with the most respect possible - but I couldn't disagree with you more. The US 'invading' Canada is a very real possibility, and it's not even that far removed from where we are now.

First, the US military will absolutely do exactly what it's commanded to do. Any defections will be minimal and squashed.

Public sentiment on both sides of the border will be manipulated over time with massive social engineering campaigns.
Trump will first economically isolate Canada to decimate our economy to help this along as well.

I see the US entering Canada without a single shot fired, and taking control of the hydro electric facilities in the great lakes, occupy and take control of the oil sands and uranium mines. This will be sold to the world as a 'special military operation' and it will follow Canada ramping up it's retaliatory response.

However I think the more likely invasion though is Russia invading first. Now that they're done with Ukraine, they will start annexing land in the arctic knowing the US won't do anything and Canada is too weak to defend itself.