Author Topic: Trump 2.0  (Read 158681 times)

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #750 on: February 09, 2025, 08:40:11 AM »
And now this ...

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/07/nx-s1-5290263/trump-kennedy-center

https://playbill.com/article/kennedy-center-responds-to-trumps-intentions-to-take-control


https://x.com/PhilNvestigates/status/1888037684171428275

Another entry in a long line of "illegal, but he'll get away with it."

One question I have is how does the President of the US have time to run the Kennedy Center? Shouldn't he be busy with other more pressing matters?

He'll probably run a weekly rally there and book a series of likeminded folks to also appear there. It'll start to look a little like Branson, Missouri in time...

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #751 on: February 09, 2025, 08:41:47 AM »
Read books on the history of how people historically survived during transitions to authoritarian regimes or during periods of violent instability. Understand the roles of social connections, mobility, physical resilience, psychological preparedness, predisposition to action, financial resources, bureaucracy, linguistic skills, etc. in the stories of survivors and non-survivors. Consider the red lines in societal degradation that will trigger different phases of your plans.

Already working on some of those things b/c frugal. Had the insulation guy out ot the house today as a matter of fact. I'm back to making sure we can operate comfortably on one income in case politics wrecks my job or DW's.

Would really like to see some book recommendations that addresses ChpBstrd's point. I'm not the most charismatic person b/c I'm too independent. Am also wondering if joining a church would be worth the effort. Not religious in the slightest but might be worthwhile for the social capital and to blend with my neighbors better.

Just to say, my church has many members who joined for the community first, and found faith second.   If you are a determined atheist, it may be hard to blend in.  But there are congregations who don't expect you to have grown up in a church, or come from a strong background of faith.

A friend of mine recommended Universal Unitarian for just that reason.

Good idea. I was thinking Southern Baptist b/c they are the dominant group here. Church of Christ is another powerful group here.

Ugh.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #752 on: February 09, 2025, 08:52:40 AM »
Join a church just because of Trump? Never. Not gonna play fascist either. This is what they count on, good people who do nothing.

Just fielding ideas so far. I'm at the "what if" stage.

Look, reading a room and verbally jousting about politics and people's rights is not my forte. I'm best dealing with tangible engineering problems. Not a clever wordsmith. I'm not changing anyone's minds here. I'm trying to get along until society puts the racists back into their place and cooler heads prevail. Maybe we'll have to endure another decade of this racist Trump conservative politics. He'll be gone within a decade but his syncophants will continue their BS until they lose steam.

I would like to build enough social connections (if necessary) that our house isn't burned to the ground while we are at work - if things really got ugly here. Do I expect militias going door to door? No, I expect like the KKK was - it will be a quiet problem for people who don't fall in line. 

Just managing the needs of our family and extended family (parents) would be a task. I'd probably look at buying an older pickup truck too. Blend as much as possible.

I'd help those in need of it in other ways. Transport. Repairing things - cars and computers. Donations. Volunteer my time.

I'm not doing anything yet. I'm watching the find out stage unfold.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #753 on: February 09, 2025, 08:55:57 AM »
I feel like it would be easier to just leave the country rather than doing all the stuff on that list. Back in 2021, I swore to myself that I would get out of the country before the next presidential election, because I figured we were in for some politically volatile times. And that’s exactly what I did. Now I don’t need to go full on prepper mode.

If you are also this concerned, I recommend you leave the country.

I took my inspiration from Albert Einstein. He was a smart guy. He saw what was happening in his country and made his exit a full year before Hitler came into power. This is the way.

We have three elderly parents to look after. And others - friends and such who also can't leave.

So many more choices when I was single or DW and I were young. We'd still be abandoning our relatives.

Much better to make efforts to get along with our neighbors until they come to their senses.

Morning Glory

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #754 on: February 09, 2025, 10:19:41 AM »
Read books on the history of how people historically survived during transitions to authoritarian regimes or during periods of violent instability. Understand the roles of social connections, mobility, physical resilience, psychological preparedness, predisposition to action, financial resources, bureaucracy, linguistic skills, etc. in the stories of survivors and non-survivors. Consider the red lines in societal degradation that will trigger different phases of your plans.

Already working on some of those things b/c frugal. Had the insulation guy out ot the house today as a matter of fact. I'm back to making sure we can operate comfortably on one income in case politics wrecks my job or DW's.

Would really like to see some book recommendations that addresses ChpBstrd's point. I'm not the most charismatic person b/c I'm too independent. Am also wondering if joining a church would be worth the effort. Not religious in the slightest but might be worthwhile for the social capital and to blend with my neighbors better.

Just to say, my church has many members who joined for the community first, and found faith second.   If you are a determined atheist, it may be hard to blend in.  But there are congregations who don't expect you to have grown up in a church, or come from a strong background of faith.

A friend of mine recommended Universal Unitarian for just that reason.

Good idea. I was thinking Southern Baptist b/c they are the dominant group here. Church of Christ is another powerful group here.

Ugh.

Not all Church of Christ is that bad, but some of them are worse. Same goes for baptist I think. I wish church names were more descriptive.  If they have "Welcoming " or "y'all means all" in their motto it's code for "not bigoted. "
« Last Edit: February 09, 2025, 10:22:38 AM by Morning Glory »

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #755 on: February 09, 2025, 11:02:40 AM »
I feel like it would be easier to just leave the country rather than doing all the stuff on that list. Back in 2021, I swore to myself that I would get out of the country before the next presidential election, because I figured we were in for some politically volatile times. And that’s exactly what I did. Now I don’t need to go full on prepper mode.

If you are also this concerned, I recommend you leave the country.

I took my inspiration from Albert Einstein. He was a smart guy. He saw what was happening in his country and made his exit a full year before Hitler came into power. This is the way.

I’m very concerned, but I’m not leaving my country. I have strong feelings about upholding the dream of America, and what this nation means. As a single person with no children, I think I’m uniquely stationed to push against what I consider a black tide.

Obviously everyone is going to make their own risk assessment. Spouses and dependents make for a different risk analysis. Nor am I going to argue about the greater good of Einstein surviving the war. But for myself specifically, fuck no, I won’t go.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #756 on: February 09, 2025, 11:05:39 AM »
I feel like it would be easier to just leave the country rather than doing all the stuff on that list. Back in 2021, I swore to myself that I would get out of the country before the next presidential election, because I figured we were in for some politically volatile times. And that’s exactly what I did. Now I don’t need to go full on prepper mode.

If you are also this concerned, I recommend you leave the country.

I took my inspiration from Albert Einstein. He was a smart guy. He saw what was happening in his country and made his exit a full year before Hitler came into power. This is the way.

If we were young with no dependents, this would be an option; but I'm betting it wouldn't be possible for many, if not most, people.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #757 on: February 09, 2025, 02:33:42 PM »
I feel like it would be easier to just leave the country rather than doing all the stuff on that list. Back in 2021, I swore to myself that I would get out of the country before the next presidential election, because I figured we were in for some politically volatile times. And that’s exactly what I did. Now I don’t need to go full on prepper mode.

If you are also this concerned, I recommend you leave the country.

I took my inspiration from Albert Einstein. He was a smart guy. He saw what was happening in his country and made his exit a full year before Hitler came into power. This is the way.
You are correct about the amount of work and financial loss. Leaving the country involves most of the same activities as preparing to survive an authoritarian regime: the passport, leaving behind sentimental property, the foreign language coursework, currency hedging, saving up a bunch of money, selling the house, getting on the same page as the SO, thinking through how to deal with pets and dependents, currency conversions, and rethinking real-world friendships. That's because part of the purpose of the prep work for staying is to establish an escape route for leaving. No one who fantasizes about leaving the U.S. should think the list of things to survive in the post-democratic U.S. is overblown.

However, moving to a faraway culture has its share of downsides. You'll probably never speak the language in a way that makes you sound educated, so you'll have a tough time getting anything better than menial employment. You'll be culturally awkward, and have a difficult time making friends - as if the language barrier wasn't bad enough. You'll miss the things from your old life that you used to like and can no longer get, and will have a hard time figuring out the new way to live and solve problems. In other words, even if you arrive with a fortune in cash, you'd still be broke in terms of social capital, and the crushing loneliness might drive you back into the jaws of the regime just for the sake of connecting with people again.

Then there is the risk that the same internet-based tsunami that sank the world's oldest and most powerful democracy could sink the government in whatever place you move to. Will you move again if the National Rally takes France, or the AfD takes Germany? And without the language skills, cultural competency, or interpersonal connections, how will you even gauge the danger? After the U.S. experience, what democratic country in the world is immune from having their elections swung to the fascists by Vladimir Putin's army of hackers and social engineers, or Silicon Valley's oligarchy? Moving does not equal safe (unless you can find a democracy that has outlawed social media and algorithmic news feeds).

So the value of the stay proposition is the chance to remain culturally competent, connected to people who care about you, taking pride in being part of the solution whatever that might mean, preserving one's foothold in a culture that might repair itself given enough time, and avoiding the unique risks associated with running away. The value of the leave proposition is reducing the risks of suddenly being cut off from leaving, avoiding the crowds trying to leave when things actually get bad, accepting the costs, and accepting the risks of bad things happening in the next place.

If someone takes all the steps involved with preparing to stay, they will have done 3/4ths of the work necessary to leave. So the question is whether this remaining 1/4th of the work is worth the positive risks of staying, or avoiding the negative risks of leaving.

Seen through this light, staying a bit longer - but doing the work - makes sense as advice for most people. If you have elderly dependents or pets who may need you for the last year or two of their lives, then you could still get all the other tasks underway now, and be prepared if the situation has gone downhill at the time of their demise.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #758 on: February 09, 2025, 07:11:01 PM »
I feel like it would be easier to just leave the country rather than doing all the stuff on that list. Back in 2021, I swore to myself that I would get out of the country before the next presidential election, because I figured we were in for some politically volatile times. And that’s exactly what I did. Now I don’t need to go full on prepper mode.

If you are also this concerned, I recommend you leave the country.

I took my inspiration from Albert Einstein. He was a smart guy. He saw what was happening in his country and made his exit a full year before Hitler came into power. This is the way.

I’m very concerned, but I’m not leaving my country. I have strong feelings about upholding the dream of America, and what this nation means. As a single person with no children, I think I’m uniquely stationed to push against what I consider a black tide.

Obviously everyone is going to make their own risk assessment. Spouses and dependents make for a different risk analysis. Nor am I going to argue about the greater good of Einstein surviving the war. But for myself specifically, fuck no, I won’t go.

Fuck yeah! This is also the attitude my draft-eligible kids have. They would stay and fight for America against “enemies foreign and domestic”.

Also, the attitude of “I can always move to Canada” is incredibly entitled. I saw a post the other day saying “Canada is not your backup country.” As I predicted, Trump threatening Canada’s sovereignty is a rubicon that has been crossed and will mar for a very long time ANY American’s preference to be seen as peaceful.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #759 on: February 09, 2025, 07:39:19 PM »
Also, Canada isn't safe.  Fuhrer Trump has clearly set his sights on us.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #760 on: February 09, 2025, 08:30:17 PM »
Ezra Klein's take seems to be al little more sober.  I think it's a solid take on why Trump is doing what he's doing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8QLgLfqh6s

It will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming government funding negotiations.  Those should make Trump's weakness pretty obvious. 

Fru-Gal

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #761 on: February 09, 2025, 09:45:45 PM »
Great video. I agree, all the EOs are ridiculous and show how weak he is. It’s not surprising that his only strategy is to violently “flood the zone” and make us fear him. He’s a convicted rapist, after all. Rapists are cowards who attack people smaller than themselves by cornering them and overwhelming them. They depend on their victims being surprised and brainwashed to believe there is no way to defend themselves.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #762 on: February 10, 2025, 12:18:43 AM »
I think it's helpful to filter out plans with the lowest chance of success.  Any takeover or buyout of another country requires Congress.  To me, those are distractions.
Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, so Trump's order doesn't matter (and was halted by the courts).

I think the focus should be on stopping Musk and Trump from trying to shut down government agencies.  Congress has the power to defund USAID, but President Trump does not.  One lawsuit has already restricted DOGE's access to Treasury systems, and it looks like another will block firing of USAID employees.  That's where I think the focus is most important - defending the government from direct changes by Trump's Administration (and DOGE).

"In an order late Friday, U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols -- a Trump appointee -- issued a temporary restraining order that prevents Trump and the Department of Government Efficiency from placing the employees on administrative leave as had been planned. The judge also ordered the reinstatement of some 500 USAID workers who had already been put on administrative leave and ordered that no USAID employees should be evacuated from their host countries before Feb. 14 at 11:59 p.m."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-temporary-order-blocking-trumps-dismantling-usaid/story?id=118585005

reeshau

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #763 on: February 10, 2025, 12:24:43 AM »
If anyone wants a bit of humor in all this, Bad Lip Reading is back after a hiatus, just in time for the inaugural!

https://youtu.be/b9hxwgH2tN0?si=xnUTi9WPFvhYWNv6

BC_Goldman

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #764 on: February 10, 2025, 07:39:23 AM »
I think it's helpful to filter out plans with the lowest chance of success.  Any takeover or buyout of another country requires Congress.  To me, those are distractions.
Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, so Trump's order doesn't matter (and was halted by the courts).

I think the focus should be on stopping Musk and Trump from trying to shut down government agencies.  Congress has the power to defund USAID, but President Trump does not.  One lawsuit has already restricted DOGE's access to Treasury systems, and it looks like another will block firing of USAID employees.  That's where I think the focus is most important - defending the government from direct changes by Trump's Administration (and DOGE).

"In an order late Friday, U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols -- a Trump appointee -- issued a temporary restraining order that prevents Trump and the Department of Government Efficiency from placing the employees on administrative leave as had been planned. The judge also ordered the reinstatement of some 500 USAID workers who had already been put on administrative leave and ordered that no USAID employees should be evacuated from their host countries before Feb. 14 at 11:59 p.m."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-temporary-order-blocking-trumps-dismantling-usaid/story?id=118585005

I think part of the problem is that we have no idea if SCOTUS will just decide things like this are A-OK. One would hope they would put a stop to things but the last few years give me doubts.

Sugaree

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #765 on: February 10, 2025, 07:57:48 AM »
The latest voter suppression tactic: the SAVE Act has been reintroduced in the House, which would require Americans to prove their citizenship with documentation many do not have. Especially at risk will be anyone who has changed their name from the one they had at birth through marriage or for any other reason.

Just a coincidence, surely, that lots of those people are likely to not vote Republican.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-save-act-would-disenfranchise-millions-of-citizens/

Edit: Just to say this explicitly, PLEASE call your Reps to protest this!

My understanding is that this will apply to new voter registrations and not necessarily every time you vote.  That won't stop states from purging voter rolls to make people reapply though.  However, I suspect that this may end up backfiring because I would think that women who vote GOP are more likely to have taken their husband's last name than those who don't.

BussoV6

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #766 on: February 10, 2025, 08:15:08 AM »
Also, Canada isn't safe.  Fuhrer Trump has clearly set his sights on us.

Don't plan on coming down here to South Africa either. We are now firmly in Trump and Musk's sights. :-(

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #767 on: February 10, 2025, 08:40:30 AM »
The latest voter suppression tactic: the SAVE Act has been reintroduced in the House, which would require Americans to prove their citizenship with documentation many do not have. Especially at risk will be anyone who has changed their name from the one they had at birth through marriage or for any other reason.

Just a coincidence, surely, that lots of those people are likely to not vote Republican.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-save-act-would-disenfranchise-millions-of-citizens/

Edit: Just to say this explicitly, PLEASE call your Reps to protest this!

My understanding is that this will apply to new voter registrations and not necessarily every time you vote.  That won't stop states from purging voter rolls to make people reapply though.  However, I suspect that this may end up backfiring because I would think that women who vote GOP are more likely to have taken their husband's last name than those who don't.

I think it's virtually guaranteed that blue areas would see a lot of purges, with the express goal of preventing trans people, women, and immigrants from voting.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #768 on: February 10, 2025, 08:46:11 AM »
Also, Canada isn't safe.  Fuhrer Trump has clearly set his sights on us.

Don't plan on coming down here to South Africa either. We are now firmly in Trump and Musk's sights. :-(

At least you have an ocean between you.  ;-(

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #769 on: February 10, 2025, 11:34:24 AM »
Also, Canada isn't safe.  Fuhrer Trump has clearly set his sights on us.

Don't plan on coming down here to South Africa either. We are now firmly in Trump and Musk's sights. :-(

At least you have an ocean between you.  ;-(
That does not necessarily help. Germany has a US military base for which we pay millions every year. Tribute to the Empire, you could say.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #770 on: February 10, 2025, 11:54:24 AM »
Read books on the history of how people historically survived during transitions to authoritarian regimes or during periods of violent instability. Understand the roles of social connections, mobility, physical resilience, psychological preparedness, predisposition to action, financial resources, bureaucracy, linguistic skills, etc. in the stories of survivors and non-survivors. Consider the red lines in societal degradation that will trigger different phases of your plans.

Already working on some of those things b/c frugal. Had the insulation guy out ot the house today as a matter of fact. I'm back to making sure we can operate comfortably on one income in case politics wrecks my job or DW's.

Would really like to see some book recommendations that addresses ChpBstrd's point. I'm not the most charismatic person b/c I'm too independent. Am also wondering if joining a church would be worth the effort. Not religious in the slightest but might be worthwhile for the social capital and to blend with my neighbors better.

I would also love to see the book recs. Were they posted and I missed them?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #771 on: February 10, 2025, 01:09:56 PM »
Also, Canada isn't safe.  Fuhrer Trump has clearly set his sights on us.

Don't plan on coming down here to South Africa either. We are now firmly in Trump and Musk's sights. :-(

At least you have an ocean between you.  ;-(
That does not necessarily help. Germany has a US military base for which we pay millions every year. Tribute to the Empire, you could say.

We don't have a military base but we have some (not a lot) US military here because of NORAD.

However our capital is much too close to the border for comfort.  The capital had moved around a bit before then but at Confederation in 1867 Ottawa was chosen because it was further away from the border with the US. Plus it is nicely positioned between Toronto and Montreal and between Ontario and Quebec (remember at that point Ontario was the most western province).  Also what many people don't realize is that the Rideau Canal was built for military use.

The US invaded Canada twice, we have always been aware of their desire to expand.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2025, 01:20:22 PM by RetiredAt63 »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #772 on: February 10, 2025, 02:09:17 PM »
Read books on the history of how people historically survived during transitions to authoritarian regimes or during periods of violent instability. Understand the roles of social connections, mobility, physical resilience, psychological preparedness, predisposition to action, financial resources, bureaucracy, linguistic skills, etc. in the stories of survivors and non-survivors. Consider the red lines in societal degradation that will trigger different phases of your plans.
Already working on some of those things b/c frugal. Had the insulation guy out ot the house today as a matter of fact. I'm back to making sure we can operate comfortably on one income in case politics wrecks my job or DW's.

Would really like to see some book recommendations that addresses ChpBstrd's point. I'm not the most charismatic person b/c I'm too independent. Am also wondering if joining a church would be worth the effort. Not religious in the slightest but might be worthwhile for the social capital and to blend with my neighbors better.

I would also love to see the book recs. Were they posted and I missed them?
I don't have specific recommendations because I have not been into refugee biographies until now. So I'm searching just like you are. That said...

The Balkans by Misha Glenny offers a meticulously detailed overview of the many ethnic purges, genocides, wars, and refugee crises that occurred in a diverse area of the world where the politics repeatedly turned to hatred of the "other". One reads between the lines "how were they so stupid not to resist the temptations to demagoguery and tribalism, or to not foresee the consequences of violence and disunity?" and then one realizes the contemporary U.S. resembles that remark. Still, this book is a hard read that wears down one's morale with the tale of history repeating generation after generation, with nothing ever learned from the punishment. I was unable to finish it because I got the gist and lost inspiration to keep reading.

The Aryan Jesus by Susannah Heschel describes the intellectual preparations which led to a religion-state merger in Nazi Germany. If you think institutions are fixed and unchanging things, consider that many Nazis reinterpreted the Bible to make Jesus into a fighter against the Jews, instead of a Jew, and did away with the Old Testament. Others grafted Runic and Scandinavian details into German religion to make it more compatible with an ideology of magical antisemitism, where 2-3% of the population was responsible for all the problems. After reading this devastating indictment, drop into a modern Lutheran church for smiles and coffee hour and realize the impermanence of Western civilization's oldest traditions.

The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank, for a child's-eye view of an ultimately failed attempt at surviving fascism. I read it as a cautionary tale for all those who think they can homestead through a collapse of civilization's norms. It's also a warning against not fleeing far enough, and one can only wish throughout the book that the Franks could have found their way onto a boat earlier. Perhaps fleeing got old, or there were fears for the children, or maybe the social support system was simply too enticing for Otto Frank to leave behind. 

Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, for a description of how thinking in terms of meaningfulness can help a person survive adversity, help others in times of need, and be a net contributor. I have to think most Americans' sense of meaning has been consumed by consumerism, and even many of us Mustachians would have a hard time staying mentally afloat if we lost all our investments. Frankl offers a stark reminder that the Search itself is a skill that could be life-or-death when you need it. Existential ponderings have a way of becoming concrete.

Probably there is a lot of good literature out there describing the experiences of people who fled despotism and poverty in Latin America for the U.S. These experiences might be more relevant to today's connundrum, and help us imagine migration and survival without luxuries and resources.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #773 on: February 10, 2025, 02:33:37 PM »
Headline (still looking for the video):

WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER HASSETT: TRUMP WANTS TO FIGHT INFLATION BY INCREASING LABOR SUPPLY AND LOWERING AGGREGATE DEMAND


Trump to pause law that prohibits US businesses from offering bribes to foreign governments

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/10/trump-doj-foreign-corrupt-practices-act-pause.html


Consumer Finance Protection Bureau told to not come to work this week. Statements for the last several days from Vought and Musk that they want to limit or shut down the agency.

https://x.com/alaynatreene/status/1888957465833750646

https://bsky.app/profile/yasharali.bsky.social/post/3lhtn4rmuqs2t

https://x.com/calebhecarma/status/1889003216693498002



« Last Edit: February 10, 2025, 04:11:07 PM by Travis »

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #774 on: February 10, 2025, 02:43:18 PM »
Trump to pause law that prohibits US businesses from offering bribes to foreign governments.

Only foreign? Surprise!

Quote
Consumer Finance Protection Bureau told to not come to work this week. Statements for the last several days from Vought and Musk that they want to limit or shut down the agency.
No surprise. Away with those pesky business obstructing big government types!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #775 on: February 10, 2025, 02:57:22 PM »
Hmm.  Maybe not buying US isnt just a boycott, it will be quality control for consumers.

I saw somewhere that buried in the first batch of executive orders was a line removing the provision against bribes to elected officials.  Forget the exact wording.

Travis

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #776 on: February 10, 2025, 05:47:32 PM »
https://x.com/joshrogin/status/1889083113005085029

Former recipients of USAID complained that despite their submitted waivers they're still not receiving funding. Rubio calls organizations that haven't submitted waivers idiots for not doing so. Turns out there aren't that many people left to read them.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #777 on: February 10, 2025, 10:06:28 PM »

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #778 on: February 10, 2025, 11:50:14 PM »
Election security employees at CISA being put on leave.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-cyber-agency-puts-election-security-staffers-worked-118671767
Well, there won't be any non-rigged elections anymore, so this is a no-brainer cost saving!

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #779 on: February 11, 2025, 12:10:02 AM »
I think it's helpful to filter out plans with the lowest chance of success.  Any takeover or buyout of another country requires Congress.  To me, those are distractions.
Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, so Trump's order doesn't matter (and was halted by the courts).

I think the focus should be on stopping Musk and Trump from trying to shut down government agencies.  Congress has the power to defund USAID, but President Trump does not.  One lawsuit has already restricted DOGE's access to Treasury systems, and it looks like another will block firing of USAID employees.  That's where I think the focus is most important - defending the government from direct changes by Trump's Administration (and DOGE).

"In an order late Friday, U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols -- a Trump appointee -- issued a temporary restraining order that prevents Trump and the Department of Government Efficiency from placing the employees on administrative leave as had been planned. The judge also ordered the reinstatement of some 500 USAID workers who had already been put on administrative leave and ordered that no USAID employees should be evacuated from their host countries before Feb. 14 at 11:59 p.m."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-temporary-order-blocking-trumps-dismantling-usaid/story?id=118585005

I think part of the problem is that we have no idea if SCOTUS will just decide things like this are A-OK. One would hope they would put a stop to things but the last few years give me doubts.
"a Trump appointee" issued the restraining order, stopping Trump.  That should provide hope that judges do their job.

Similarly, the Supreme Court affirmed Congress has the power to spend the government's money, so Trump's attempts to shut things down will run up against existing precedent.  It is one of the core powers of Congress, and taking it away seems unlikely without gutting the constitution the Court is sworn to defend.  I think they won't deprive Congress of this power, and Trump will find himself unable to shut down departments as he sees fit.

"As the Supreme Court has explained, that rule of law directs that no money can be paid out of the Treasury unless it has been appropriated by an act of Congress."
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S9-C7-1/ALDE_00001095/#ALDF_00020274

LennStar

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #780 on: February 11, 2025, 04:29:12 AM »
No money can be paid until congress approves, but can money not be paid even if congress approves? Two completely different things that probably haven't come up a lot in the past.

And that is putting aside that A) which administration workers should control that and B) those who aren't political appointments now, how will they act if their life(lihood) is in serious danger? If e.g. the boss of the Proud Boys openly says they should pay for what they have done?

Nazi Germany didn't function because of the fanatics, it worked because of all the people who had more or less good reasons to not stop it.

I think I said it earlier in this thread: I am a coward. If 5 guys with baseball bats come to me and ask me to do something, I do it. As would nearly anybody else, including 90% of those who proudly proclaim they will defend their rights.
The rest... there is a reason why that world famous anti-fascist song from Italy named "Bella Ciao" is about a flower on a grave.

neo von retorch

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #781 on: February 11, 2025, 06:07:53 AM »
No money can be paid until congress approves, but can money not be paid even if congress approves? Two completely different things that probably haven't come up a lot in the past.

There are several related threads, so maybe I missed it, but this has come up a few times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impoundment_of_appropriated_funds

Quote
The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 was passed in response to high impoundments under President Nixon.[1] The Act removed that power, and Train v. City of New York (whose facts predate the 1974 Act, but which was argued before the U.S. Supreme Court after its passage) closed potential loopholes in the 1974 Act.The president's ability to indefinitely reject congressionally approved spending was thus removed.

The Impoundment Control Act of 1974 provides that the president may propose rescission of specific funds, but that rescission must be approved by both the House of Representatives and Senate within 45 days. In effect, the requirement removed the impoundment power, since Congress is not required to vote on the rescission and, in fact, has ignored the vast majority of presidential requests.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #782 on: February 11, 2025, 06:17:54 AM »
Nazi Germany didn't function because of the fanatics, it worked because of all the people who had more or less good reasons to not stop it.
There was extreme disparities in prison sentences, depending on political party.  Something like 10+ years for the same offense another person would receive any time in prison.  Pardoning people serving time for Jan 6 offenses doesn't rise to that level, but it is a step in the wrong direction.

The Nazi party was also selected - not elected - to lead.  Germany currently doesn't allow parties with less than 5% of the vote to participate in government, which I believe is a reaction to that past.  That said, the neo-Nazi party AfD is now the second most popular party, so they expect to do well in German elections a few weeks from now.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #783 on: February 11, 2025, 06:38:23 AM »
Nazi Germany didn't function because of the fanatics, it worked because of all the people who had more or less good reasons to not stop it.
There was extreme disparities in prison sentences, depending on political party.  Something like 10+ years for the same offense another person would receive any time in prison.  Pardoning people serving time for Jan 6 offenses doesn't rise to that level, but it is a step in the wrong direction.

The Nazi party was also selected - not elected - to lead.  Germany currently doesn't allow parties with less than 5% of the vote to participate in government, which I believe is a reaction to that past.  That said, the neo-Nazi party AfD is now the second most popular party, so they expect to do well in German elections a few weeks from now.
Yeah, Musk made a virtual appearance at a campaign event for the far-right AfD party, saying “children should not be guilty of the sins of their parents.” Before the last person who remembers WW2 dies, here we are doing the same stupid shit that caused all that misery. We have yet to evolve beyond tribal monkey brains.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #784 on: February 11, 2025, 07:08:30 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #785 on: February 11, 2025, 07:28:22 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.

Only for you (you plural, USAians).  My Google maps still shows Gulf of Mexico.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #786 on: February 11, 2025, 07:29:08 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.
Only for you (you plural, USAians).  My Google maps still shows Gulf of Mexico.
When will we realize that the big tech companies give us all different information, in order to manipulate us?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #787 on: February 11, 2025, 08:01:06 AM »
No money can be paid until congress approves, but can money not be paid even if congress approves? Two completely different things that probably haven't come up a lot in the past.

There are several related threads, so maybe I missed it, but this has come up a few times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impoundment_of_appropriated_funds

Quote
The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 was passed in response to high impoundments under President Nixon.[1] The Act removed that power, and Train v. City of New York (whose facts predate the 1974 Act, but which was argued before the U.S. Supreme Court after its passage) closed potential loopholes in the 1974 Act.The president's ability to indefinitely reject congressionally approved spending was thus removed.

The Impoundment Control Act of 1974 provides that the president may propose rescission of specific funds, but that rescission must be approved by both the House of Representatives and Senate within 45 days. In effect, the requirement removed the impoundment power, since Congress is not required to vote on the rescission and, in fact, has ignored the vast majority of presidential requests.

This current Supreme Court has radically reinterpreted both settled case law and the constitution multiple times (repeal of the Chevron doctrine, repeal of Roe v. Wade, giving presidents absolute immunity for any action while in office, making criminalization of homelessness legal, stripping the SEC of the in-house proceedings used to impose fines upon people who violate rules of the securities market, explicitly allowing gerrymandering whether or not it racially discriminates, etc.) in recent years to fit their political bent.

It's not safe to depend on settled case law, or what the constitution says when considering what the current Supreme Court will decide.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #788 on: February 11, 2025, 08:45:26 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.

Just let the highest bidder or largest GOP donor choose the name of the Gulf. Like they do on football stadiums. We're headed down the same path as the Idiocracy movie. Let's get on with it... /s

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #789 on: February 11, 2025, 08:48:22 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.

Just let the highest bidder or largest GOP donor choose the name of the Gulf. Like they do on football stadiums. We're headed down the same path as the Idiocracy movie. Let's get on with it... /s

The Gulf of X: Brought to you by X (formerly known as Twitter)

Just Joe

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #790 on: February 11, 2025, 08:53:22 AM »
Does anyone think we'll ever get past the "formerly known as Twitter" portion?

If the rebranding forever requires clarification, was the rebrand successful?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #791 on: February 11, 2025, 08:55:00 AM »
Does anyone think we'll ever get past the "formerly known as Twitter" portion?

If the rebranding forever requires clarification, was the rebrand successful?

X was such a dumb thing to rebrand to, I don't think the clarification will ever go away.  Like, they're still called 'tweets' not 'xs'.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #792 on: February 11, 2025, 09:02:03 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.
Only for you (you plural, USAians).  My Google maps still shows Gulf of Mexico.
When will we realize that the big tech companies give us all different information, in order to manipulate us?

The big tech companies follow country rules, no matter how stupid silly.  It is only google maps in the US that shows Gulf of American.  The rest of the world sees Gulf of Mexico.  Even in the over-our-dead-bodies "51st state".

deborah

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #793 on: February 11, 2025, 09:02:27 AM »
Geographical names (particularly of bodies of water) have always varied from country to country. I don’t see the name change of the Gulf of Mexico as being a significant thing. In Australia, we have always called the ocean on our southern shores the Southern Ocean. Most other countries have called it the Pacific. I remember that some years ago, some geographic society decided that the Southern Ocean existed, but that it started further south. Until then maps from places like the USA didn’t have the Southern Ocean at all. So our school children were always told that there was one more ocean in the world than many other school children. After a lot of push back from a lot of countries, google has just gone with the flow and varied geographical names too.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #794 on: February 11, 2025, 09:04:56 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.
Only for you (you plural, USAians).  My Google maps still shows Gulf of Mexico.
When will we realize that the big tech companies give us all different information, in order to manipulate us?
The big tech companies follow country rules, no matter how stupid silly.  It is only google maps in the US that shows Gulf of American.  The rest of the world sees Gulf of Mexico.  Even in the over-our-dead-bodies "51st state".
Yes, but it does feel a bit like being in China, where all the maps must show Taiwan as a part of China. That's where we are now.

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #795 on: February 11, 2025, 09:09:04 AM »
I see google maps is now aligned with the "Gulf of America". I would have preferred the "Gulf of Cheap Eggs" or "The Gulf of MAGA". The "Gulf of California" is really a gulf of Baja California. Hmmm.
Only for you (you plural, USAians).  My Google maps still shows Gulf of Mexico.
When will we realize that the big tech companies give us all different information, in order to manipulate us?

The big tech companies follow country rules, no matter how stupid silly.  It is only google maps in the US that shows Gulf of American.  The rest of the world sees Gulf of Mexico.  Even in the over-our-dead-bodies "51st state".

So maybe we just rename Canada to "51" in the maps on Trump's phone and skip the whole war thing? And give him a bunch of Sharpies to fix any hard copies on the walls?

sixwings

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #796 on: February 11, 2025, 09:16:01 AM »
Geographical names (particularly of bodies of water) have always varied from country to country. I don’t see the name change of the Gulf of Mexico as being a significant thing. In Australia, we have always called the ocean on our southern shores the Southern Ocean. Most other countries have called it the Pacific. I remember that some years ago, some geographic society decided that the Southern Ocean existed, but that it started further south. Until then maps from places like the USA didn’t have the Southern Ocean at all. So our school children were always told that there was one more ocean in the world than many other school children. After a lot of push back from a lot of countries, google has just gone with the flow and varied geographical names too.

I agree, out of all the things Trump is doing, the gulf renaming is irrelevant and not worth dwelling on.

Like the CFPB is dead, but apparently talking about renaming the gulf is the real issue.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #797 on: February 11, 2025, 09:30:38 AM »
Geographical names (particularly of bodies of water) have always varied from country to country. I don’t see the name change of the Gulf of Mexico as being a significant thing. In Australia, we have always called the ocean on our southern shores the Southern Ocean. Most other countries have called it the Pacific. I remember that some years ago, some geographic society decided that the Southern Ocean existed, but that it started further south. Until then maps from places like the USA didn’t have the Southern Ocean at all. So our school children were always told that there was one more ocean in the world than many other school children. After a lot of push back from a lot of countries, google has just gone with the flow and varied geographical names too.

I agree, out of all the things Trump is doing, the gulf renaming is irrelevant and not worth dwelling on.

Like the CFPB is dead, but apparently talking about renaming the gulf is the real issue.

No, the point is that he is doing major damage and also a bunch of silly things.  This just shows how self-centred and aggrandizing he is.  And that the rest of the world just isn't on his bandwagon.

He is also a lying liar who lies.  He said 30 day pause on tariffs, and this morning he announced 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum.  And he really really wants Canada as the 51st state.  It's not funny any more.  Apart from not wanting to be a state at all, we would demand to be 10 states (1 province = 1 state, 1 territory = 1 territory), with 20 senators and the appropriate redistribution of seats in Congress.  So given how socialist/communist we are (that was sarcasm) I guess he would only want us as one state, or even better we could join Puerto Rico as a territory.  No thanks.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #798 on: February 11, 2025, 09:43:21 AM »
Geographical names (particularly of bodies of water) have always varied from country to country. I don’t see the name change of the Gulf of Mexico as being a significant thing. In Australia, we have always called the ocean on our southern shores the Southern Ocean. Most other countries have called it the Pacific. I remember that some years ago, some geographic society decided that the Southern Ocean existed, but that it started further south. Until then maps from places like the USA didn’t have the Southern Ocean at all. So our school children were always told that there was one more ocean in the world than many other school children. After a lot of push back from a lot of countries, google has just gone with the flow and varied geographical names too.

I agree, out of all the things Trump is doing, the gulf renaming is irrelevant and not worth dwelling on.

Like the CFPB is dead, but apparently talking about renaming the gulf is the real issue.
Yes, but we must recognize the distraction strategy. Maybe liberals can learn a lesson.  I'm certain dozens of voters had major issues with paper straws or new toilets, but now that they are such a big deal on Fox, it actually becomes a big deal and Trump knows it.

rantk81

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Re: Trump 2.0
« Reply #799 on: February 11, 2025, 09:43:44 AM »
And he really really wants Canada as the 51st state.  It's not funny any more.  Apart from not wanting to be a state at all, we would demand to be 10 states (1 province = 1 state, 1 territory = 1 territory), with 20 senators and the appropriate redistribution of seats in Congress.  So given how socialist/communist we are (that was sarcasm) I guess he would only want us as one state, or even better we could join Puerto Rico as a territory.  No thanks.

Not even to mention that I'm sure you and all your neighbors would be absolutely thrilled to pay about $1000 per month per person for health insurance, so that you can then spend the first $10,000 per year of health care expenses as your deductible, before the private insurance company covers anything!