Author Topic: Toying with Cycle-touring  (Read 9992 times)

Le Poisson

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Toying with Cycle-touring
« on: May 04, 2015, 01:26:34 PM »
By a twist of fate, this year I have one week more vacation than the family. Which means Dad gets to go adventuring on his own. A rare thing.

Since I've started riding my bike to work, I got to wondering if maybe a week-long bike ride would be cheaper than a week long canoe trip, and offer some of the same sorts of adventures. For commuting to work I've been stealing my wife's bike though (KHS Eastwood) and so I would have to take my bike for the adventure (Devinci Desperado).

I'm worried that the Desperado isn't really ideal for a long ride like this for a few reasons. First, it's geared very low. I'm worried I would blow out my knees by the time I got to where I was going, and that's not cool. Second, its frame geometry is set up for aggressive mountain biking, not for carrying a bunch of gear across the province. Finally, its too expensive of a bike to risk leaving outside a shop while grabbing a bite to eat.

I sortof want to replace the bike with a really good touring/cyclocross/hybrid bike. But I also sortof think I need a facepunch. I have a REALLY GOOD fancy-pants bike already, so what sort of stupid am I to be talking about swapping it for a hybrid commuter bike (also, I have no intent to start racing mountain bikes in the next few months, so my really good bike spends its life hanging in the garden shed).

Can anyone give a decent kit cost to equip a bike for touring, and tell me whether a competitive mountain bike is completely stupid to do this with? Should I be swapping the bike out for cash to equip a cheap bike for this trip?

halcyonmind

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 01:59:48 PM »
You are very lucky to have the extra week! I am very lucky to have an understanding wife (and sympathetic kids) who doesn't mind when I take a week for these kinds of trips on my own.

While mountain bikes are pretty popular for bikepacking in more remote areas, you'll see very few of them used for road touring in North America. As you mentioned, the geometry is less comfortable for that style of riding, but the thing that will get you frustrated faster is the speed (or lack thereof). Yes, you could swap out your knobbies for slicks, but you are still riding something geared for torque. So... you probably want a different bike.

Before you take that as license go all fancy, recognize that (1) you may find you don't like bike touring, and (2) you don't actually need a fancy bike to tour. The former may not be a real thing, as I have yet to encounter anyone who doesn't love touring if they are already keen on cycling. The latter, though, is a real consideration. The truth is that pretty much any mechanically sound bike can be used for touring, though a mechanically sound road bike will be more pleasant. I did multiple tours on my 2004 road bike (not a tourer) before I invested in a true touring rig.

My advice would be to look for used bikes that you could tune, if you are decently skilled, or have tuned for you. If your city has a bike co-op that sells refurbished bikes, that is likely your best option (cheap and pre-tuned; mine sells great bikes for <$300). Then you will need to add some $$ for bags and such, but I would stay minimal as possible and not end end carting around the kitchen sink.

With all that said... an expensive bike you never ride is a waste. You could sell your MTN and buy a decent tourer (Surly LHT is one of the best budget-conscious rigs available in NA) that could double as your commuting bike.  I use my tourer for commuting, and the ability to amortize the cost of the bike and my bags/equipment over both touring and commuting made it nearly a no-brainer for me.

DB43

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 02:12:57 PM »
Prospector--

I recently bought a Salsa Fargo- yes it still is a fancy pants bike but I have now sold my fancy pants road bike, my fancy pants mountain bike, my fancy pants triathlon bike and my midrange commuter bike (I know, I know). I use the Fargo for commuting, road biking, mountain biking and hopefully soon touring/bikepacking. I commute about 10 miles each day and ride another 20-50 on the weekends for fun- just change the tires on the bike and you can do just about anything. With that said if you are only planning on a single trip you can outfit your current bike or your wife's bike with bags and make it work. Lots of folks do it on garage sale bikes and have a great time. I just checked ebay and you could probably get bags for less than $100.00. Enjoy!

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo

http://travellingtwo.com/resources/biketouringbasics/how-to-pick-a-touring-bike

http://www.bikepacking.net/

http://www.whileoutriding.com/

necksnapper

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touring bike optional
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 02:28:13 PM »
Hey,

I did my first cycle touring in Cuba in 2011. I left for a month and changed city on an almost daily basis.  I was not a cyclist (except for commuting) and this was done on my first-ever new bike, a simple Kona Dew Hybrid (400$). 

The take out from this is that you can tour on pretty much anything.  The only thing I regret not changing right away are the tires.  Get good quality tires.  I got flats *daily* for the first half of my trip until my girlfriend  brought me decent tires.

I now own a tourer, but definitely didnt *need* one on that trip.

Hope that helps!

eddie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 02:57:00 PM »
I would recommend some type of hybrid/road/touring bike.  It needs to have the ability to put paniers on the frame.  I attached a pic of the bike I used in Europe in 2008 for a 1,000+ mile trip.  If you're going to camp, you absolutely want paniers because of the weight.  If you're going to stay in hotels then you could get away with a light backpack if you only plan to spend 2-3 hours or less per day on the bike.  I would look into renting/borrowing a bike from someone if you won't have a use for the bike after the trip.  That would be cheaper than buying.  I've charged a friend $50 to borrow a racing bike of mine for a couple weeks.  He was liable for any damage.

I bought the paniers and rack new from my local bike shop for around $150 in 2008.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 05:56:46 PM »
I did a 16 day/800 mile bike tour of Alaska last summer and fully recommend doing one (although a week long canoe trip also sounds awesome). I also didn't want to buy another bike for the tour so I borrowed a BOB trailer from a friend and pulled it with my 2007 Novara Strada (more of a road race bike than tour bike). It worked okay but I'll probably trade it out for a touring bike before I do another longer ride. The other thing I'll do is pack more effectively and skip the trailer. I met a guy riding a similar route on a 100 dollar garage sale bike carrying half as much stuff and he was enjoying the ride just as much as I was... I'll probably opt for water proof panniers though, it's nice to have dry clothes to put on when you're done for the day.

kendallf

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 06:14:44 PM »
+1 to the "some sort of inexpensive road bike."  Old steel road bikes from the 70s or 80s are ideal for this; they often have rack eyelets (at least in the rear), the old style non-indexed shifters are simple to tune and operate, parts are cheap, etc.

Here's a thread I posted about my commuter/road tourer: it started off as a $5 Craigslist rusty POS.  I stripped it, powdercoated it, added some parts I had around (yes, I have too many bikes).  I have a generator hub wheelset on it and that, with the expensive front light, cost more than the rest of the bike, but all told I'm still probably only $300 or so into it.

The $5 Schwinn
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 06:16:56 PM by kendallf »

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 06:34:43 AM »
WOW! Thanks for all the enthusiastic replies!

I am fortunate that our neighbours are deeply involved in competitive cycling, so when I brought this same question to him last night he guffawed and gave a 'no problem' response. I liked his approach to the problem - it looks like I'm getting a bigger chainring for the Devinci and a set of pannier bags and frame. I'll ride it to work like that for a while and if it sucks, then we'll move everything over to the KHS (apparently Axiom makes a convertible rack that will fit either frame) and give that a go. Through his contacts it looks like I can get this stuff used for supercheap, or as loaners.

Whichever is most comfortable, thats the bike I'll take.

I'm also toying with going on the United Way Gran Fondo (http://ride4unitedway.com/welcome.php) as a tagalong to get a feel for this sort of ride, and then touring to either Algonquin or Tobermory in the fall. As a part of the organizing comittee for the Fondo I can go in it for free, so I get the experience and support with the cost. I like that. I think I need to start building up miles toward this  - I am not in any condition to be doing 100km/day right now.

If anyone in the Toronto area wants to go for a bike ride with a total newb in around late September/early October, gimme a shout. I need to start dehydrating food now.

skyrefuge

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 09:24:59 AM »
First, it's geared very low. I'm worried I would blow out my knees by the time I got to where I was going, and that's not cool.
it looks like I'm getting a bigger chainring for the Devinci

Hmm, I'm a bit confused here. In the first quote, I associate "blown out knees" with gearing that's too high (because you have to stomp and strain to get the bike moving), so at first I thought you might have just had "high" and "low" reversed.

But then the second quote seems to confirm that you genuinely think your gearing is too low, and you're changing it to make it higher. Are you sure you really want to do that?

Pretty much no one who has ever bike toured has complained about gearing that's too low. If anything, the problem is usually the opposite: retail "touring" bikes sometimes come with gearing that's too high to be practical for carrying loads up a mountain. When I bought my touring bike, I swapped out the crank for a smaller one, to achieve.....the exact same gearing that your Devinci already has! (44/32/22 and 11-34, according to their website.) That's generally one of the advantages of touring with a mountain bike, the gearing is already set up well for touring.

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 09:58:21 AM »
Thanks for the input Skyrefuge, but no - I meant low.

Its been 20 years or so since I raced bikes, but now I am commuting and finding myself with the same mentality. Pound the big ring as hard as you can as long as you can. Only difference is that now I'm doing it while towing a 4 year old in the trailer, or a couple bags of potatoes some orange juice and a bulk pail of ice cream - and I better get home before the ice cream melts.

If I sit in the lower gears, the lack of resistance leads to a lot of wasted energy, so I will always switch up to a gear where I at least have some resistance. Eventually I build speed until that gear is useless, etc. etc. until I find myself pacing on the next to smallest ring in the back and the big ring up front. Of course terrain dictates a downshift when I go uphill, but then its rarely onto the middle chainring, and almost never into granny. I really only need a 6-speed bike. With a nice fat ring up front.

If your knees are cycling without putting out energy, you are wearing the cartilage in your joints pointlessly, which in my mind means nothing but inflammation and pain. Its the same as revving an engine in neutral. Sure its going fast but you are more likely to blow a rod that revving in gear with some resistance.

Granted, doing a tour things may be different. With a bike loaded down with gear, handling and function is very different, so I may be wrong. But the nice thing about swapping out a chainring is that I can always swap it back.

skyrefuge

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 10:35:53 AM »
If I sit in the lower gears, the lack of resistance leads to a lot of wasted energy

If there's a lack of resistance, pedal faster. :-)  As you probably know, pro-cyclists, who aren't big fans of wasting energy, tend to pedal really fast.

I've never seen cycling knee-pain associated with lightly-loaded spinning; I've always seen the opposite, it's associated with "gear mashers".  Here's a medical research source (p.24) that suggests an optimal cadence of 88-95+ RPM, and says there is "increased risk of knee injury the [the gear-masher] group":

http://www.uwhealth.org/files/uwhealth/docs/pdf3/kneepaincyclist.pdf

Now, maybe you're simply a really strong cyclist, and you spin at 90+ RPM even in the highest gear (that cadence would put you around 27mph on your wife's KHS). In that case, then yeah, the higher gears could be useful for you.

And since it sounds like you're already used to carrying loads, then your touring experience won't be shockingly different than commuting, unless you plan to ride up much steeper hills than you normally do.

Koogie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 10:40:13 AM »
Do it.. you'll enjoy it.  Two years ago I did my first long distance bike tour.  Toronto > Manhattan, NY    Had a blast.
Don't worry to much about the gear.  It all works itself out.   I used my regular 29er mountain bike and just put new rims and touring tires (Schwalbe) on it.   Worked great.     I'd recommend the best, best, bestest sleep pad you can find.  For me at least a good nights sleep makes all the difference.

Read trip reports on  crazyguyonabike.com     if you want to get inspired.   And waste time at work..  ;o)

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 12:27:28 PM »
Changing my name to Manfred and moving to Germany now... https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=k1&page_id=413852&v=d

Thanks for the link!

Koogie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 12:41:58 PM »
Changing my name to Manfred and moving to Germany now... https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=k1&page_id=413852&v=d

Thanks for the link!

Right idea.. wrong German.   Try this guy on for size:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_St%C3%BCcke

"""In November 1962, the 22-year-old Stücke quit his job as a tool and die maker, and rode out of his hometown on a three-speed bicycle, with a plan to see the world.[1][2] He has never since returned to Hövelhof, stating that his extraordinary desire to travel has been partly motivated by his aversion to returning to factory work.[2]

In the early 1980s, after two decades on the road, Stücke decided to attempt to visit every country in the world. He believed he had accomplished his goal when he reached Seychelles in 1996, but he continued on.[2] Between 1962 and 2010, he cycled more than 609,000 kilometres (378,000 mi) and visited 195 countries and 78 territories. From 1995 through 1999, the Guinness Book of Records described him as having travelled more widely by bicycle than anyone in history"""

RidinTheAsama

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 04:51:35 PM »
I agree with most people here that any bike that's comfortable will do the trick.  My wife and I spent 2 months touring through Corsica (most mountainous island in the Mediterranean!) and Sardinia for our honeymoon.  Given the steep climbs and the need to haul all the gear we needed for 2 months plus often a few days worth of food we never once complained that our gears were too low!

I rode an Asama, About Town - a generic mountain bike frame that I'd had for a while and liked the geometry of.  A fully loaded photo is attached.

The only upgrades I would recommend that haven't been mentioned here are:
- Some good kevlar-lined tires (they'll hold off flats much longer, and you can have the fun of checking them at night and popping out the pieces of glass that are wedged in there while thanking the kevlar for saving you the hassle of a flat)
- A handle grip upgrade - maybe this won't matter for a short trip but if you are going to spend 6 hours a day for 2 months holding onto these things they should feel nice.  Something like this provides lots of variable hand positioning with decent support http://www.ebay.ca/itm/like/310802834617?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=116 and I bet you could find a cheaper version.

Happy travels!

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 11:45:56 AM »
The only upgrades I would recommend that haven't been mentioned here are:
- Some good kevlar-lined tires (they'll hold off flats much longer, and you can have the fun of checking them at night and popping out the pieces of glass that are wedged in there while thanking the kevlar for saving you the hassle of a flat)
- A handle grip upgrade - maybe this won't matter for a short trip but if you are going to spend 6 hours a day for 2 months holding onto these things they should feel nice.  Something like this provides lots of variable hand positioning with decent support http://www.ebay.ca/itm/like/310802834617?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=116 and I bet you could find a cheaper version.

Happy travels!

Thanks for the tips - I really like the tires I have now, but handlebar grips would be a good thing to upgrade. I broke my scaphoid in my teens, and ever since then, I've never had full extension. On a bike I can feel it get tired after a while, especially on uneven surfaces. Those flat grips you showed would probably help with that, and I like the micro-bar ends. I am sad that bar ends are no longer vogue. I liked the riding position using them. I was looking for a set on CL.

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2015, 11:55:40 AM »

Now, maybe you're simply a really strong cyclist, and you spin at 90+ RPM even in the highest gear (that cadence would put you around 27mph on your wife's KHS). In that case, then yeah, the higher gears could be useful for you.


SO I've been paying more attention to my speed since you posted this and found that I'm up around 29 - 34 km/h most of the time when I'm sitting in the next-to-highest gear on the Devinci (18 - 21 MPH). I also hooked up the trailer to the Devinci for the ride in today, and was reinded of all the reasons that's a bad thing to do. The disk brake gets fouled by the trailer hitch sliding back on the chainstay, and the safety strap then gets pinched in there and causes all sorts of trouble. I need to get a bar and attach it to the frame at the rear brake booster braze-ons.

But - with the added load of the trailer, the existing gearing worked OK - Its hard to say how much effort was spent grinding away at the brake rotor with the trailer hitch though. Maybe this weekend I'll try some builds of different solutions for the trailer hitch and then form an opinion. I have some steel available to tinker with.

skyrefuge

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2015, 12:40:53 PM »
SO I've been paying more attention to my speed since you posted this and found that I'm up around 29 - 34 km/h most of the time when I'm sitting in the next-to-highest gear on the Devinci (18 - 21 MPH).

Cool. Some back-calculation then says that your cadence is about 80 RPM. Perhaps still somewhat short of the efficient ideal, but in a reasonable range, and much better than the 60 RPM mashing I was envisioning. And then switching to your actually-highest gear would then take you up to 40 km/h at the same cadence. Increase your cadence to 90 RPM and then you have a 45 km/h top-end, so yeah, it seems like you have plenty of headroom with your current gearing. In my mind, if I'm going faster than 30 km/h on tour, that's plenty fast and it's time to enjoy the downhill or the tailwind and sit back and enjoy the scenery!

Koogie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 10:05:25 AM »
Thanks for the tips - I really like the tires I have now, but handlebar grips would be a good thing to upgrade. I broke my scaphoid in my teens, and ever since then, I've never had full extension. On a bike I can feel it get tired after a while, especially on uneven surfaces. Those flat grips you showed would probably help with that, and I like the micro-bar ends. I am sad that bar ends are no longer vogue. I liked the riding position using them. I was looking for a set on CL.

This is the set of bar ends I got from MEC.   Very cheap and have lasted thousands of kms.  Vogue, what's that ?
http://www.mec.ca/product/5023-587/abr-aluminum-bar-ends/?q=bar%2Bend

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 12:06:06 PM »
SO I've been paying more attention to my speed since you posted this and found that I'm up around 29 - 34 km/h most of the time when I'm sitting in the next-to-highest gear on the Devinci (18 - 21 MPH).

Cool. Some back-calculation then says that your cadence is about 80 RPM. Perhaps still somewhat short of the efficient ideal, but in a reasonable range, and much better than the 60 RPM mashing I was envisioning. And then switching to your actually-highest gear would then take you up to 40 km/h at the same cadence. Increase your cadence to 90 RPM and then you have a 45 km/h top-end, so yeah, it seems like you have plenty of headroom with your current gearing. In my mind, if I'm going faster than 30 km/h on tour, that's plenty fast and it's time to enjoy the downhill or the tailwind and sit back and enjoy the scenery!

Slow down and enjoy life - good advice. I tend to speed up and enjoy the thrills. With the trailer I'm a little slower though. I downloaded 'Endomondo' on my work Blackberry and did some tracking just for fun between yesterday and this morning.

Data Point 1 - Riding with my sons to school - one in a trailer and the other on a kid bike. 
12.33 km/h avg. speed over 4.52 km

Data Point 2 - Continuing on to work with the empty trailer. A long downhill followed by a long uphill, but not an agressive slope.
20.20 km/h avg speed over 1.8 km

Data Point 3 - Going home after work - No trailer, across town sans kids. Since my wife works in the same building as I do, I can load the trailer in her car and she brings it home.
19.67 km/h avg speed over 6.15 km

Data point 4 - A fun ride around the neighbourhood. With the slicks on and in casual clothes instead of office clothes.
23.36 km/h avg speed over 5.08 km

Things worth noting though - I'm a "rules of the road" cyclist, so I stop for red lights, and all-way stops, etc. this really brings down average speed. For the summer when the kids are in Daycare, I need to be able to hold up a 25 km/h average speed in order to make into the office for a 9:00 AM start. That may be tricky. Need to get serious about working out speed now.  I'm definitely paying more attention to cadence and gearing following this conversation and the slide deck you linked though. Thanks!
 


Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 12:24:41 PM »
Thanks for the tips - I really like the tires I have now, but handlebar grips would be a good thing to upgrade. I broke my scaphoid in my teens, and ever since then, I've never had full extension. On a bike I can feel it get tired after a while, especially on uneven surfaces. Those flat grips you showed would probably help with that, and I like the micro-bar ends. I am sad that bar ends are no longer vogue. I liked the riding position using them. I was looking for a set on CL.

This is the set of bar ends I got from MEC.   Very cheap and have lasted thousands of kms.  Vogue, what's that ?
http://www.mec.ca/product/5023-587/abr-aluminum-bar-ends/?q=bar%2Bend

I used to be a big supporter of MEC (20 years ago or so) but once they started moving production to Taiwan, and revealed that their whole eco-friendly and cooperative environment was nothing more than a marketing sham, I dropped them as nothing more than just another store. Dollar for dollar, I'll buy direct from China and avoid the middle man.

Bar Ends alone: http://www.dx.com/p/bicycle-aluminum-bar-end-set-pair-53854#.VUz-zvlVhHw
Similar to the grips on ebay above: http://www.dx.com/p/ergonomic-multi-position-cycling-grips-bicycle-bar-end-handlebar-pair-black-blue-93093#.VUz_MvlVhHw

Before I go shopping though, I need to convince myself that these are a need and not a want.

Koogie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 12:44:14 PM »
I used to be a big supporter of MEC (20 years ago or so) but once they started moving production to Taiwan, and revealed that their whole eco-friendly and cooperative environment was nothing more than a marketing sham, I dropped them as nothing more than just another store. Dollar for dollar, I'll buy direct from China and avoid the middle man.
Bar Ends alone: http://www.dx.com/p/bicycle-aluminum-bar-end-set-pair-53854#.VUz-zvlVhHw
Similar to the grips on ebay above: http://www.dx.com/p/ergonomic-multi-position-cycling-grips-bicycle-bar-end-handlebar-pair-black-blue-93093#.VUz_MvlVhHw
Before I go shopping though, I need to convince myself that these are a need and not a want.

Overthinking.  If $6 - 14$ bar ends are an economic concern then you have larger, more immediate concerns. If you do buy something similar though your wrists, shoulders and back will thank you.


RidinTheAsama

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 12:48:06 PM »
I've always really appreciated the advice from MEC staff and almost always found it to be quite reliable.  Their "Rocksolid Guarantee" has also proven itself to me on new and unwanted gear all the way through to old and heavily used gear.  So they have won me as a customer that way.

But I had never looked into their corporate structure or heard that they "revealed that their whole eco-friendly and cooperative environment was nothing more than a marketing sham"...  Can you tell me more about that?

I've strayed from the original topic by a bit here... sorry

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 04:33:08 PM »
Overthinking.  If $6 - 14$ bar ends are an economic concern then you have larger, more immediate concerns. If you do buy something similar though your wrists, shoulders and back will thank you.

I'm not sure - are you admiring my frugality or insulting my 'stache?

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 04:42:33 PM »
I've always really appreciated the advice from MEC staff and almost always found it to be quite reliable.  Their "Rocksolid Guarantee" has also proven itself to me on new and unwanted gear all the way through to old and heavily used gear.  So they have won me as a customer that way.

But I had never looked into their corporate structure or heard that they "revealed that their whole eco-friendly and cooperative environment was nothing more than a marketing sham"...  Can you tell me more about that?

I've strayed from the original topic by a bit here... sorry

I used to make the drive from Brantford into deepest darkest Toronto to shop at MEC. I felt like the store was something close to holy ground. At the time I was into expedition canoeing and loved the gear and advice - much as you say. Then little things started changing - Ostrom Packs (made in Canada) were replaced with offshore stuff like Arcyterx. Their tents were no longer Canadian made, but were Eureka's with different stickers. The gear got cheaper and the prices got higher.

They kept on with sustainable building even when their definition of it was repeatedly proven unhealthy or unsustainable. Now their stores barely carry goods to get folks out of the city. Last time I was in one, it was in Barrie, and we were renting one of their canoes to go up to Algonquin with our family. The staff came out of the store wrestling with the boat. He was carrying it backwards. The yolk was fine, but the guy didn't know what it was. I asked if they had any otter tail paddles since I prefer their profile and the guy replied that he was a biker and really didn't know anything about this stuff.

Look into the whole rebrandfing they've done in the past couple years and you'll quickly see that the company is following the money. Which is fine for a company to do, except that they are supposed to be a cooperative, especially suited to sourcing stuff to meet the needs of their members. Notice the words Mountain and Coop are out out of their name now. It says something.

And yeah, we're way off topic, and this can turn ugly fast, so lets get back to my crappy cycling skills instead.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 05:49:05 PM by Prospector »

RidinTheAsama

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 05:14:42 PM »
Thanks for the MEC food for thought.  I'll look into it more.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2015, 06:44:17 AM »
Bike touring is something I'd love to do. Probably will have to wait until kids are older, since I'm the SAHP and my wife doesn't get tons of vacation. For my longer single-day rides I absolutely love bar ends on my hybrid. I have ones that curl enough that you can do either palms facing each other or palms down to the road, stretched out grip, both of which are invaluable on long flat stretches.

I met a guy the other day who retired in his late 50s, has never owned a car, and proceeded to spend the next 8 years biking 112,000km including one 60day trip across  the US. Pretty neat story. Despite being in his 60s, he easily kicked my ass in the speed department and still had over 50km from where we met to home.

Koogie

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 08:34:51 AM »
Overthinking.  If $6 - 14$ bar ends are an economic concern then you have larger, more immediate concerns. If you do buy something similar though your wrists, shoulders and back will thank you.
I'm not sure - are you admiring my frugality or insulting my 'stache?

Neither !  But as someone else said upthread, get bar ends or something similar.  The weight and stress on your wrists and back while touring is unbelievable. And 6-14$ is a non-issue.  Buy them, you won't regret it.

As to MEC.  Mehhh... I agree but for different reasons.   I find their customer service has gone way downhill (instore) and the people in each department aren't nearly as expert in their field as they used to be.  I shop at MEC Burlington, Barrie and Toronto.  I find the downtown store the worst but that may be a function of how many people they see.  I know they treated a friend of mine who was equipping an Alaska>Toronto bike tour at MEC downtown very poorly.   We ended up getting most of his stuff at other stores in the area.

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2015, 10:44:00 AM »
Bike touring is something I'd love to do. Probably will have to wait until kids are older, since I'm the SAHP and my wife doesn't get tons of vacation. For my longer single-day rides I absolutely love bar ends on my hybrid. I have ones that curl enough that you can do either palms facing each other or palms down to the road, stretched out grip, both of which are invaluable on long flat stretches.

I met a guy the other day who retired in his late 50s, has never owned a car, and proceeded to spend the next 8 years biking 112,000km including one 60day trip across  the US. Pretty neat story. Despite being in his 60s, he easily kicked my ass in the speed department and still had over 50km from where we met to home.

Hmmm - My place to Muskegon is 800 km. A week each way. i ride out, we grab a coffee, ride back to Toronto, grab a coffee, you ride home. Easy peasy!

Some of these stories are really inspiring. Can't wait for my panniers and rack to show up.

Le Poisson

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2015, 10:49:25 AM »
Overthinking.  If $6 - 14$ bar ends are an economic concern then you have larger, more immediate concerns. If you do buy something similar though your wrists, shoulders and back will thank you.
I'm not sure - are you admiring my frugality or insulting my 'stache?

Neither !  But as someone else said upthread, get bar ends or something similar.  The weight and stress on your wrists and back while touring is unbelievable. And 6-14$ is a non-issue.  Buy them, you won't regret it.

As to MEC.  Mehhh... I agree but for different reasons.   I find their customer service has gone way downhill (instore) and the people in each department aren't nearly as expert in their field as they used to be.  I shop at MEC Burlington, Barrie and Toronto.  I find the downtown store the worst but that may be a function of how many people they see.  I know they treated a friend of mine who was equipping an Alaska>Toronto bike tour at MEC downtown very poorly.   We ended up getting most of his stuff at other stores in the area.

Yeah - I'll get some bars soon. Regardless of price (OK, not really, I'll get the ones from DX and save $5 at the expense of waiting an extra week for shipping.)

Going to try to ride 60 km after work one night this week yto see if i can get a jump like that on a trip to Algonquin - its pretty much the only way I can see making it work.

Where are you in Toronto? If I loaded my bike on the GO maybe we could do some of the waterfront trail and I could pick up some pointers off you.

RunningWithScissors

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2015, 04:43:09 PM »
I spent 7 weeks touring France on a steel framed, 21 speed 1989 Peugeot touring bike equipped with a large handlebar bag (with a plastic cover for a map), and 4 panniers.  Everything inside was either in a ziplock bag, or a heavy duty plastic bag.  Even in driving rain, nothing got wet.

Technical fabrics will be your friend - washing socks and shorts by hand and having them dry by morning is essential.  Do anything you can to cut weight - trust me on this.  I carried 12 pounds in total, but was staying in youth hostels so no tent/cooking gear was needed.  My clothing could fit into a single grocery bag:  one short sleeve shirt, one long sleeved shirt, a tank top, 1 pair walking shorts, 1 long skirt (YMMV!) and a windbreaker, all in dark coordinating colors to make washing easy.  Layers were added or subtracted depending on weather conditions.  I wasn't a fashion plate, but no one cared - least of all me.

This trip was probably my favorite of all time so I hope you carry through with your plans.  Bonne route!

alexismcgrath

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2015, 11:43:51 PM »
I did a cross country tour on a mountainbike (Specialized Stumpjumper). Changing out the tires and inflating to higher pressure helped immensely. The 'geometry' you mention came into play too. Have you done long road rides on the bike? I totally switched out the handlebars to an aero bar with multiple hand positions and forearm pads to lean forward on and more cushioned grips and changed the handlebar stem to bring the bar up and toward me. Having a variety of riding positions was much more comfortable on long days and being able to lean forward in an aerodynamic position was nice in a strong headwind or when really moving fast. Whatever you end up with, test it loaded on some long rides before your tour to get the kinks out and to have an idea of planned daily distances.

Have you picked out a trip? California coast headed South tent camping is amazing.


andy.LtD

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Re: Toying with Cycle-touring
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2015, 10:51:42 AM »
Yes, congratulations on the thought check out

www.horizonsunlimited.com   there is a cycle section

I was on that site which had a link here so WIN WIN