The Senseless Cruelty of Donald Trump

[Kris]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/donald-trumps-cruel-streak/501554/?utm_source=atlfb

The problem is, this is actually a selling point for his supporters. They like that he is cruel. They want that cruelty. It is what they are voting for.  So, basically, this article, while true, will have no effect at all.

[Papa Mustache]

They appreciate a badass. They think he can get things done with that attitude.

Other folks think that politics takes some compromise and decorum, especially the office of the president.

I wonder often why these two candidates represent the best two people our country has to lead itself. I'll make peace with Hillary in the White House easily enough. I don't think Trump will ever do or say anything that would generate a compliment from me.

I wonder what the next election cycle will bring.

[golden1]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model.  I teach my kids that acting like a bully is wrong.  Trump reinforces the opposite.  If he wins, it emboldens some of the worst people in society.   It actually causes me pain to watch him and hear the stuff he says about other people. 

[Pigeon]

What is weirder to me is that he has been embraced by evangelicals.  Here Michelle Obama has been vilified by these people for wearing sleeveless dresses, and Trump's wife has been in gay porn shots.  Go figure.

[AlanStache]

I keep reminding myself that facts and logic are not considerations to him or his supporters.  Its hard to turn so much of my brain off so that it does not overheat trying to rectify the contradictions. 

[Scandium]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model. 

Though when was the last time the president was a good role model? FDR? Maybe Eisenhower?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model. 

Though when was the last time the president was a good role model? FDR? Maybe Eisenhower?

Um, Obama?

[Scandium]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model. 

Though when was the last time the president was a good role model? FDR? Maybe Eisenhower?

Um, Obama?

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

http://rare.us/story/more-innocent-people-die-from-obamas-drones-than-from-mass-shootings/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

Don't know about you, but for my child I try to find role models who have only killed hundreds of people, not thousands..

[a plan comes together]

Here's the backstory on the Miss Universe that came up in the debate: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/us/politics/alicia-machado-donald-trump.html

Even for him, this is bad.

I suppose, like everything else, his bigoted supporters won't care. They eat this stuff up.

[dividendman]

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

http://rare.us/story/more-innocent-people-die-from-obamas-drones-than-from-mass-shootings/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

Don't know about you, but for my child I try to find role models who have only killed hundreds of people, not thousands..

While I don't agree with the drone program overall, I don't think it's practical to hold a military leader to the same "lack of violence" standard as some other person. For instance, Eisenhower (and FDR) probably ordered the killings of hundreds of thousands through the WWII campaign, but I don't think anyone thinks he is a bad role model due to that.

George Washington and Lincoln also ordered the deaths of thousands, Truman used nukes. It goes with being the ultimate military leader of any country that you will be responsible for the deaths of your military.

Now, you can say that those wars were declared, or there is no review of the done program etc. But in the capacity of Commander-in-Chief the President must do what he or she believes is required to protect the citizens of the United States from external states/actors.

[golden1]

Obama is a fantastic role model when it comes to his personal character.  So was Lincoln, who was responsible for the death of thousands during the civil war.  Many leaders that are revered by history have blood on their hands.  When I speak of role model, I speak of his rhetoric and his decorum and how he conducts himself at a personal level.  He doesn't insult women, or make fun of disabled people for instance. 

[Petunia 100]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/donald-trumps-cruel-streak/501554/?utm_source=atlfb

The problem is, this is actually a selling point for his supporters. They like that he is cruel. They want that cruelty. It is what they are voting for.  So, basically, this article, while true, will have no effect at all.

The article describes textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder behavior.  It should not be a surprise to anyone that a person who has NPD behaves this way.  How else would someone with NPD behave?

[Scandium]

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

http://rare.us/story/more-innocent-people-die-from-obamas-drones-than-from-mass-shootings/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

Don't know about you, but for my child I try to find role models who have only killed hundreds of people, not thousands..

While I don't agree with the drone program overall, I don't think it's practical to hold a military leader to the same "lack of violence" standard as some other person. For instance, Eisenhower (and FDR) probably ordered the killings of hundreds of thousands through the WWII campaign, but I don't think anyone thinks he is a bad role model due to that.

George Washington and Lincoln also ordered the deaths of thousands, Truman used nukes. It goes with being the ultimate military leader of any country that you will be responsible for the deaths of your military.

Now, you can say that those wars were declared, or there is no review of the done program etc. But in the capacity of Commander-in-Chief the President must do what he or she believes is required to protect the citizens of the United States from external states/actors.

Killing soldiers, or even civilians, in an existential war is one thing. But murdering a 16 year old US citizen in some desert town without trial? Bombing doctors without borders? Even if they knew the victims were guilty (which they don't) they're just some assholes causing trouble in some backwater shithole. These murders are just to score political points and not be "weak on terror". I'd say that's pretty despicable behavior. And this was after two (!) campaigns promising "change"?! He could give the order a stop it instantly, but he doesn't.

At least Bush had the decency to promise his gung-ho policies outright.. So no I don't think Obama is a good person. I'd say he's a pretty terrible one.

You raise a good point about other presidents; they were probably pretty bad too. So there are zero good presidential role models.

[vern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y7PxWdFPgY

[LeRainDrop]

I started off the election season actively hoping to like Trump.  He's made it impossible.  He's a blustering bulldozer who does not have an adequate mastery of the issues, respect for the Constitution, nor respect for human beings generally.  It really bothers me to see this major party candidate perpetuate prejudices and advocate for subverting our constitutional rights in favor of pandering to narrow-minded groups of people.  So sad.

[purple monkey]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/donald-trumps-cruel-streak/501554/?utm_source=atlfb

The problem is, this is actually a selling point for his supporters. They like that he is cruel. They want that cruelty. It is what they are voting for.  So, basically, this article, while true, will have no effect at all.

The article describes textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder behavior.  It should not be a surprise to anyone that a person who has NPD behaves this way.  How elase would someone with NPD behave?

NPD is one of the most dangerous disorders that exists.

Many folks with this have enormous  carnage all around them.

Ivanka is the golden child.

Tiffany is the scapegoat.

Don and Eric are the flying monkeys.

KAC, as his campaign manager, is incredibly dangerous.

I am also disappointed with HRC.

All of us have some narcissism, due to self preservation.

He is the most textbook NPD that there is. I have now become a fortune teller and can predict his responses.

Scary.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

http://rare.us/story/more-innocent-people-die-from-obamas-drones-than-from-mass-shootings/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

Don't know about you, but for my child I try to find role models who have only killed hundreds of people, not thousands..

While I don't agree with the drone program overall, I don't think it's practical to hold a military leader to the same "lack of violence" standard as some other person. For instance, Eisenhower (and FDR) probably ordered the killings of hundreds of thousands through the WWII campaign, but I don't think anyone thinks he is a bad role model due to that.

George Washington and Lincoln also ordered the deaths of thousands, Truman used nukes. It goes with being the ultimate military leader of any country that you will be responsible for the deaths of your military.

Now, you can say that those wars were declared, or there is no review of the done program etc. But in the capacity of Commander-in-Chief the President must do what he or she believes is required to protect the citizens of the United States from external states/actors.

Killing soldiers, or even civilians, in an existential war is one thing. But murdering a 16 year old US citizen in some desert town without trial? Bombing doctors without borders? Even if they knew the victims were guilty (which they don't) they're just some assholes causing trouble in some backwater shithole. These murders are just to score political points and not be "weak on terror". I'd say that's pretty despicable behavior. And this was after two (!) campaigns promising "change"?! He could give the order a stop it instantly, but he doesn't.

At least Bush had the decency to promise his gung-ho policies outright.. So no I don't think Obama is a good person. I'd say he's a pretty terrible one.

You raise a good point about other presidents; they were probably pretty bad too. So there are zero good presidential role models.

I was going to point out the hypocrisy of suggesting that FDR (President during WWII) and Eisenhower (General during WWII) were good role models, while Obama was not because he "killed thousands of people", but I'm glad to see that you've already come to this conclusion. Frankly, I don't see a gaping distinction between killing innocent civilians in a declared war vs. the fight against terrorism. I don't think there's a single national leader without blood on their hands in some way, and I don't think it's even possible to avoid it. Complacency against those who wish to kill your citizens is violence in itself, and I don't envy the decisions that any president has to make about when to take action and when to stand by idly. I do trust that Obama is doing the best job that he's able, and I do regard him as a good role model.

[Scandium]

I was going to point out the hypocrisy of suggesting that FDR (President during WWII) and Eisenhower (General during WWII) were good role models, while Obama was not because he "killed thousands of people", but I'm glad to see that you've already come to this conclusion. Frankly, I don't see a gaping distinction between killing innocent civilians in a declared war vs. the fight against terrorism.

I do maintain that there is a distinction. While WWII was a total war against a real evil and an existential threat to western democracy, and in modern war even the civilian populace is critical to the war effort there are no innocents (at least in their view, and why this was necessary). FDR and Ike helped fight this and won, freeing and saving thousands or millions.

Obama murder civilians and suspects in an effort that doesn't work and create more terrorists, just to score political points and look tough. Not saving America or making anyone safer.

Yes presidents all have blood on their hands so none or probably great role models (There are plenty of people who have their admirable character traits who haven't killed anyone). But you also have to consider what they killed for. Freedom, or just politics?

[dividendman]

Yes presidents all have blood on their hands so none or probably great role models (There are plenty of people who have their admirable character traits who haven't killed anyone). But you also have to consider what they killed for. Freedom, or just politics?

Hrm... Are you suggesting that President Obama is in the White House Situation Room and is thinking "hmm, if I drone this guy or that building I'll get a bump in the polls" and that's why he does it? In fact, I think many (most?) liberals, me included, are less supportive of him due to this program because of the reasons you have outlined, not more more supportive of him. I think the people that generally support this program (most Republicans) aren't likely to support him regardless.

So, what I'm saying is I think he continues with the drone program in spite of the political implications, not because of them. Note that the vast majority of drone strikes aren't even reported by the media or the White House because the administration doesn't want the publicity for them.

[trailrated]

I have to say Hillary and her camp did a fantastic job setting up his fiasco of a response to the Miss America winner. I linked an article with a pretty interesting take on the whole thing.

It peels back the curtain on the sort of brilliant and orchestrated planning that a well run campaign can do. Want to make sure the world sees Trump at his worst? Set the trap and let him do the rest. They were able to line up a whole ad campaign along with a set of interviews beforehand to take advantage and strike while the iron is hot. From a strictly strategic standpoint I have to give kudos.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/27/13079878/alicia-machado-trap

[gillstone]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model. 

Though when was the last time the president was a good role model? FDR? Maybe Eisenhower?

Um, Obama?

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

http://rare.us/story/more-innocent-people-die-from-obamas-drones-than-from-mass-shootings/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

Don't know about you, but for my child I try to find role models who have only killed hundreds of people, not thousands..

Best to skip any President then.  Holding that office means a constant stream of no-win choices where someone dies no matter what you do. 

[Jeremy E.]

I have some issues with Donald Trump too, on top of the fact that he's a racist and all of his policies will fuck our economy, the Trump University Scam, etc. I also hate that,
Politifact did a study showing donald trump to be false 53% of the time
Trump is the first Party nominee since 1980 to not release his tax returns. His reasoning is that he needs to wait for his audit to be complete, however the IRS has said he is able to release them while his return is under audit.
He is not willing to put his company into a blind trust if he becomes president(like other presidents with companies have done in the past), instead he wants his family to run his company, and he'll still have a large interest in it.
The Donald Trump Foundation (the charity company that Donald started) has illegally spent donated money meant for charity multiple times, including
spending over $250,000 of donated charity money on lawsuits against Trump businesses,
spending over $30,000 of donated charity money on not 1, but 2 paintings of himself on 2 different occasions
spending $12,000 of donated charity money on a signed Tim Tebow helmet,
spending $25,000 of donated charity money to make an illegal political donation to support Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was considering investigating fraud allegations against Trump University and decided not to after that donation
and spending $5,000 of donated charity money on advertisements for his hotels

[rocketpj]

I'm a Canadian, but I am completely astonished by this election.

It is something like sitting on a bus, watching a massive fiery vehicle crash happen on the highway beside you.  It is terrifying, but there is literally not a single thing I can do to change or affect the outcome.  I want more than anything to look away, but it seems somehow completely wrong to go back to reading my newspaper.

Trump is a total buffoon and not likely to win.  If he does then God help us all.  However, he has shown the way for the next candidate.  That person will say all the same racist, sexist, monstrous things that get Trump's fans all excited and motivated.  But he will be smarter, more disciplined and much more able to avoid making a total ass of himself every single time he opens his mouth.  That's the candidate that scares me - some good looking smooth talker who hits all the same buttons but is able to actually fool those inexplicable 'undecideds' out there.

[davisgang90]

Obama is a fantastic role model when it comes to his personal character.  So was Lincoln, who was responsible for the death of thousands during the civil war.  Many leaders that are revered by history have blood on their hands.  When I speak of role model, I speak of his rhetoric and his decorum and how he conducts himself at a personal level.  He doesn't insult women, or make fun of disabled people for instance.

http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/obama-apologizes-for-remark-020268

[nobodyspecial]

Trump is a total buffoon and not likely to win.

That's not always axiomatic

[Fresh Bread]

Trump is a total buffoon and not likely to win.

That's not always axiomatic

I'm also outside of the US and the Brexit vote is in the forefront of mine and many friends minds when we worry about the election. Before the Brexit vote, lies were told by the campaigners but it just. didn't. matter. I understand how people fall for the lies and that it probably stems from years of feeling left behind/ hard done by and so it would be hard to change viewpoints within the span of an election campaign. It's just so scary watching from the outside when so much is at stake.

[VladTheImpaler]

This is the part that really demoralizes me about this election, the fact that people enjoy the pain of others.  I don't get how people with kids want this type of behavior as a role model.  I teach my kids that acting like a bully is wrong.  Trump reinforces the opposite.  If he wins, it emboldens some of the worst people in society.   It actually causes me pain to watch him and hear the stuff he says about other people.

I agree 100%
This pretty much sums up my sentiments exactly.

The election is starting to make me feel like we have a Nation of Sociopaths and Narcissists who worship bullies like the donald.

[Northwestie]

Trump is a total buffoon and not likely to win.

That's not always axiomatic

I'm also outside of the US and the Brexit vote is in the forefront of mine and many friends minds when we worry about the election. Before the Brexit vote, lies were told by the campaigners but it just. didn't. matter. I understand how people fall for the lies and that it probably stems from years of feeling left behind/ hard done by and so it would be hard to change viewpoints within the span of an election campaign. It's just so scary watching from the outside when so much is at stake.

I used to think, well, maybe folks are coming into the election mindset late; maybe they are just too busy to research a few key items; or maybe there are some logical reasons that I'm not aware of as to why someone would vote for Trump.

But as this has gone on I've just come to the conclusion there are a mass of dolts out there.

[Papa Mustache]

Obama is a fantastic role model when it comes to his personal character.  So was Lincoln, who was responsible for the death of thousands during the civil war.  Many leaders that are revered by history have blood on their hands.  When I speak of role model, I speak of his rhetoric and his decorum and how he conducts himself at a personal level.  He doesn't insult women, or make fun of disabled people for instance.

Absolutely... (clapping...)

"But as this has gone on I've just come to the conclusion there are a mass of dolts out there."

It is very sobering and a disappointing realization.

[BlueHouse]

I have some issues with Donald Trump too, on top of the fact that he's a racist and all of his policies will fuck our economy, the Trump University Scam, etc. I also hate that,
Politifact did a study showing donald trump to be false 53% of the time
Trump is the first Party nominee since 1980 to not release his tax returns. His reasoning is that he needs to wait for his audit to be complete, however the IRS has said he is able to release them while his return is under audit.
He is not willing to put his company into a blind trust if he becomes president(like other presidents with companies have done in the past), instead he wants his family to run his company, and he'll still have a large interest in it.
The Donald Trump Foundation (the charity company that Donald started) has illegally spent donated money meant for charity multiple times, including
spending over $250,000 of donated charity money on lawsuits against Trump businesses,
spending over $30,000 of donated charity money on not 1, but 2 paintings of himself on 2 different occasions
spending $12,000 of donated charity money on a signed Tim Tebow helmet,
spending $25,000 of donated charity money to make an illegal political donation to support Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was considering investigating fraud allegations against Trump University and decided not to after that donation
and spending $5,000 of donated charity money on advertisements for his hotels

And who can swallow all those raisins?  Just finished watching John Oliver's this week which had many of the same arguments. Was very good. (Compares Hillary scandals to trump scandals)

[Jeremy E.]

I have some issues with Donald Trump too, on top of the fact that he's a racist and all of his policies will fuck our economy, the Trump University Scam, etc. I also hate that,
Politifact did a study showing donald trump to be false 53% of the time
Trump is the first Party nominee since 1980 to not release his tax returns. His reasoning is that he needs to wait for his audit to be complete, however the IRS has said he is able to release them while his return is under audit.
He is not willing to put his company into a blind trust if he becomes president(like other presidents with companies have done in the past), instead he wants his family to run his company, and he'll still have a large interest in it.
The Donald Trump Foundation (the charity company that Donald started) has illegally spent donated money meant for charity multiple times, including
spending over $250,000 of donated charity money on lawsuits against Trump businesses,
spending over $30,000 of donated charity money on not 1, but 2 paintings of himself on 2 different occasions
spending $12,000 of donated charity money on a signed Tim Tebow helmet,
spending $25,000 of donated charity money to make an illegal political donation to support Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was considering investigating fraud allegations against Trump University and decided not to after that donation
and spending $5,000 of donated charity money on advertisements for his hotels

And who can swallow all those raisins?  Just finished watching John Oliver's this week which had many of the same arguments. Was very good. (Compares Hillary scandals to trump scandals)

I dislike Hillary as well because she's a liar and has crappy stances on a lot of the issues in my opinion. But while she lies a lot, she not half the liar that Trump is. She's also not nearly as corrupt as Trump. But I'm voting Gary Johnson as he's less of a liar than both of them and I prefer his stances on the issues.

[acroy]

The Atlantic as a news source? Humorous.  The same rag currently desperately defending Saudi Arabia.
Cruelty? I don't think they know what 'cruelty' is.

[nobodyspecial]

I used to think, well, maybe folks are coming into the election mindset late; maybe they are just too busy to research a few key items; or maybe there are some logical reasons that I'm not aware of as to why someone would vote for Trump.

Same as Brexit.
eg "We joined the Eu in the 1970s and the 1970s economy was bad, and the good 1980s economy didn't benefit me and it's all the politicians fault so I'm teaching them a lesson." The best example was somebody voting for Brexit because they hated what Margaret Thatcher had done.

Same as people in Rochester cheering Trump because they had lost their jobs at Kodak and that was (apparently) all the fault of politicians and Hillary is a politician.

[MonkeyJenga]

I'm a Canadian, but I am completely astonished by this election.

It is something like sitting on a bus, watching a massive fiery vehicle crash happen on the highway beside you.  It is terrifying, but there is literally not a single thing I can do to change or affect the outcome.  I want more than anything to look away, but it seems somehow completely wrong to go back to reading my newspaper.

Trump is a total buffoon and not likely to win.  If he does then God help us all.  However, he has shown the way for the next candidate.  That person will say all the same racist, sexist, monstrous things that get Trump's fans all excited and motivated.  But he will be smarter, more disciplined and much more able to avoid making a total ass of himself every single time he opens his mouth.  That's the candidate that scares me - some good looking smooth talker who hits all the same buttons but is able to actually fool those inexplicable 'undecideds' out there.

Good news: there is something you can do! You can volunteer, even outside of America. You can't donate money, but you can donate time.

One option: Democrats Abroad.

Another option: volunteer to make calls. You can do it from home, and they give you a script so you don't need to be educated on the issues.

I wrote about my experience canvassing in Philly in my journal. Obviously people living outside the US can't do this, but non-citizens living here can still get out there!

[projekt]

My opinion (based on working on campaigns in the past) is that if you want to promote the outcome you desire, it's best to avoid arguing with people from the other side. Even if you manage to turn one, you've spent an amazing amount of time on minimal results. Instead, focus on people whose opinions you don't know and see if they are interested in your candidate. Ask people directly to vote for your candidate, because you think they should. Give them positive reasons to do so. People who are currently on the fence are sick of the "he-said she-said" gotcha BS. They don't care about that. Many people who haven't made up their minds will never be directly asked by a friend or neighbor to support a candidate. If you want to make a difference in the election, get off the net and go out into your neighborhood, or call your friends and family in swing states.

[wenchsenior]

Holy crap. Just when I think he can't get any more unhinged...this would be funny if it weren't actively frightening.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/?wpisrc=nl_az_most

[purple monkey]

He has major self-hatred, due to NPD and upbringing.

Due to NPD, cant be fixed, but could be managed.

If he were not wealthy, he would have already imploded.

Cheers!

[nobodyspecial]

The good thing is that he is an idiot. Suppose he was better at staying on-message ?

Assuming he doesn't really have any deep feelings against blacks (assuming he doesn't have any deep feelings about anyone except himself)
He attacks minorities because he got a cheer at a rally and he is going to lose because those poor white males don't make up 51% of the electorate anymore

But if his team did the math and worked out that he would gain more poor black votes than he would lose poor white votes by widening his base and attacking only terrorists and illegal immigrants and claiming that poor blacks were also losing THEIR jobs to China/immigrants/bankers he could get a lot of democrat votes.

The real danger is the smooth talking popularist at the next election that concentrates everyone's hatred on a single target.
 

[sol]

Holy crap. Just when I think he can't get any more unhinged...this would be funny if it weren't actively frightening.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/?wpisrc=nl_az_most

Every post from more than 48 hours ago where someone says "I can't believe Trump actually said that" is suddenly much more poignant in light of recent revelations that he openly admits to sexual assault.

I'm reminded of this Onion article from like a year ago, where a hapless man claims "That’s the final nail in the coffin right there. There’s no way he’s coming back from this one" for the seventh time, last December. 

[wenchsenior]

OMG, I've been off-line mostly since the 8th...and LOOK at the shit that has gone down. My previous comment seems funny, in retrospect.