Author Topic: The kids in the Thailand cave  (Read 1900 times)

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5469
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
The kids in the Thailand cave
« on: July 06, 2018, 02:22:52 AM »
This story has had me entranced for a week. Forget for a moment whether it was a bright idea for the coach to take the soccer kids on a bonding trip in the middle of the wet season.

A survival and rescue story like this is good for humanity in general. The world needs something to cheer about.

Anyone else following it?


Comar

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 100
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 02:44:36 AM »
Well let's hope we have something to cheer about in the end. Now a professional diver has died and they say it's a race against time. I feel sorry for the coach. As I understand it was a long tradition to go into the cave and write your name on the stones. He problably didn't realise the danger. I hope no more people have to die. But stuff like this may fuck with your head for the rest of your life.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6461
  • Location: United States
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 06:08:20 AM »
I saw on another website that the cave had a warning sign for flooding July through (?) November.  It was still June when they entered the cave.  The coach must feel horrible, but I don't think he deserves blame.

I hope they get them out. It sounds like that having so many rescuers in the cave is depleting the oxygen in the air, very scary situation- as diving the boys out is going to be extraordinarily dangerous. 

I hope they make it out alive. The death of the rescuer is absolutely tragic. It's a horrible situation altogether.

G-dog

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9764
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 08:05:09 AM »
it is getting a lot of news coverage here in the US.  I am amazed that they found this group alive so long after they went missing. But they are still in so much danger, with a very treacherous journey out, no matter when they start.  I hope they all make it, but I am afraid that they won't.

It is also frightening to think about how much this rescue is costing (money, time, stress, man hours, risk to others....)

v8rx7guy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
  • Location: PNW
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 08:29:57 AM »
I have not been following the story closely, but I did read an article about it last night.  I am sure this info is out there, but is it possible to drill down to the team similar to how the Chilean mine workers were rescued back in 2010?

FIRE@50

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 162
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Maryland
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 08:35:13 AM »
When I first heard about this story shortly after they went missing, I didn't have high hopes for them being found alive. When I heard that they were found, I was obviously pleasantly surprised. It was amazing to see that first video of them talking to the divers and all looking relatively healthy. I'm really hopeful that they can all get out without any further loss of life. I'm confident that the engineering problems can be solved as long as the rains aren't too severe.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6461
  • Location: United States
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 08:45:49 AM »
I have not been following the story closely, but I did read an article about it last night.  I am sure this info is out there, but is it possible to drill down to the team similar to how the Chilean mine workers were rescued back in 2010?

It seems to be one of the options they are investigating, but like the other options (dive them out; wait for the water to recede) it isn't a particularly good one. They would need to be able to build a road to transport equipment to where they drill, and they would need to be able to stabilize the drilling equipment, and they would need to determine they won't collapse the cavern they are in.  It almost sounded like by the time it was all done, the rainy season would be over and the "wait it out" route would take place anyway.  With the miners, there was structure in place to drill, although they needed specialty tools. 

I know they aren't dismissing any options.  So they may go this route. The diving is so unsafe; it's hard for the most qualified divers, even as a ride along, the kids will have a very rough go. But with them running out of oxygen, waiting until the water recedes is sounding very unlikely, and there is the risk of further flooding filling the cave.

I can't get over how awful this is. But how lucky they were to be found at all.

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Perth, AU

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7916
  • Location: Australia
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 03:11:41 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 03:20:18 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

so scary!

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7916
  • Location: Australia
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2018, 03:29:03 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

so scary!

Yeah. As much as I hope they all get out alive, it just doesn't seem likely. I keep thinking how I'd feel right now if that was my kid.

As a side note, I'm not sure I think it's okay that their notes to their parents have been published.

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2018, 03:35:10 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

so scary!

Yeah. As much as I hope they all get out alive, it just doesn't seem likely. I keep thinking how I'd feel right now if that was my kid.

As a side note, I'm not sure I think it's okay that their notes to their parents have been published.

I assume their parents had to consent to that?

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7916
  • Location: Australia
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2018, 03:38:29 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

so scary!

Yeah. As much as I hope they all get out alive, it just doesn't seem likely. I keep thinking how I'd feel right now if that was my kid.

As a side note, I'm not sure I think it's okay that their notes to their parents have been published.

I assume their parents had to consent to that?

No idea! The notes could have been released by the Thai government or media with or without permission from the parents, I haven't heard whether they had to consent.

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2018, 03:43:32 AM »
I can't look away. I keep imagining what their parents are going through.

so scary!

Yeah. As much as I hope they all get out alive, it just doesn't seem likely. I keep thinking how I'd feel right now if that was my kid.

As a side note, I'm not sure I think it's okay that their notes to their parents have been published.

I assume their parents had to consent to that?

No idea! The notes could have been released by the Thai government or media with or without permission from the parents, I haven't heard whether they had to consent.

Hopefully thats not the case

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7916
  • Location: Australia
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2018, 06:18:38 AM »
Looks like three boys are now out, alive.

G-dog

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9764
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 06:36:04 AM »
Looks like three boys are now out, alive.

Just reported in US that 2 are out (not surprised at the discrepancy in the reports). Taken to hospital by ambulance instead of helicopter, which is an indication that they are in reasonably good shape. Extraction went faster than est8mated - I hope that holds up for the rest. Estimated 4 days to get all out.

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5312
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2018, 12:45:22 PM »
That choke point looks terrifying!

As a baby open water diver I couldn't imagine going into a cave let alone having to remove SCUBA tank to push along through a tunnel.. I guess the buddy in front can pull it but even so. These kids will be put into the most dangerous diving scenario known on their very first dive. If anyone panics while in that choke point they die, simple as that.

I've been to Chiang Rai and the jungle is incredibly thick so getting drilling equipment in there on water logged soil and boring into unknown terrain seems far fetched as a solution so I'm not surprised its been ruled out.

This is a nightmare..:(


G-dog

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9764
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2018, 12:50:55 PM »
That choke point looks terrifying!

As a baby open water diver I couldn't imagine going into a cave let alone having to remove SCUBA tank to push along through a tunnel.. I guess the buddy in front can pull it but even so. These kids will be put into the most dangerous diving scenario known on their very first dive. If anyone panics while in that choke point they die, simple as that.

I've been to Chiang Rai and the jungle is incredibly thick so getting drilling equipment in there on water logged soil and boring into unknown terrain seems far fetched as a solution so I'm not surprised its been ruled out.

This is a nightmare..:(


^which is one reason why Ekon Musk’s “kid-size” submarine seems ridiculous.

I’ve heard they’ve gotten the water level lowered enough that they can walk much more of the route.

TheWifeHalf

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2018, 12:55:48 PM »
4 out
Says the oxygen tanks ares used up and they're doing whatever they have to do to replenish them. Will resume on Monday. Of course, it's afternoon Sunday here, they're Monday will come sooner

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5312
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2018, 12:59:28 PM »
I keep hearing "oxygen tanks". But SCUBA tanks are compressed air.. Not oxygen.

Are they using the terms interchangably (and incorrectly) or are they using O2 for a different purpose??

TheWifeHalf

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2018, 01:04:34 PM »
It's beautiful to see the locals, who lost crops and livestock because of the cave water being pumped to their fields, saying  'anything for the kids.'

(I used the word oxygen because that is what is used on tv. I know NOTHING about diving)

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5312
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2018, 01:08:22 PM »
Yes its all over the news as well. Pure oxygen is poisonous thats why SCUBA wouldn't use it (its much more expensive too).

Pilots at high altitude breath pure O2 as a supplimental to the thin air.. so its a relatively small percentage that actually fills the lungs.

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2018, 04:45:33 PM »
Yes its all over the news as well. Pure oxygen is poisonous thats why SCUBA wouldn't use it (its much more expensive too).

Pilots at high altitude breath pure O2 as a supplimental to the thin air.. so its a relatively small percentage that actually fills the lungs.

I think they are using oxygen so people who dont know much about diving understand what it is

okits

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6576
  • Location: Canada
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2018, 08:23:33 PM »
I just read a news article that said the journey out for the kids takes around FIVE HOURS.  That is mind-boggling.

The anxiety and potential grief of the families is unfathomable.  I'm trying to think of the joy and relief of the four families whose children have been rescued.

exFB - the same article said "compressed air tanks".  So the oxygen reference is possibly just inaccurate reporting.

Villanelle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2129
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2018, 08:42:21 PM »
It's possible they are using Nitrox instead of regular compressed air, but I can't think of a reason for that, since Nitrox is generally used to increase bottom time at medium depths, and none of that seems to apply here.  So I assume this is just a case of the media getting it wrong.

I'm a pretty experienced diver (about 30 years and well over 200 dives, including some caverns and a couple caves) and I can't imagine trying to remove a tank in tight quarters and possibly zero viz, when you aren't really familiar with your equipment and what is wear.  Never mind the fact that some people freak out and panic and can't continue diving when they are in open ocean, fairly shallow with bottom and surface in sight, and 100 foot visibility.  This type of trip would feel like a pretty big risk for me as an experienced diver.  I can't image in inexperienced, malnourished, terrified 11 year old kid trying to do it.  I know there is no other better option, so I guess all we can do is wish them well.

TheWifeHalf

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2018, 09:57:37 PM »
They said on tv the coach has training as a Buddhist monk and they were assuming he was helping the kids by teaching them meditation. Also the fact that they were a 'team' has to help them mentally.

okits

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6576
  • Location: Canada
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2018, 07:44:46 AM »
Another four out today.  Thank goodness.

I wonder if they can get five out in a day (tomorrow) or if one person will be left alone.  (Also, apparently the kids in strongest physical condition were brought out first, so I wonder if tomorrow will be a day of sad news.)

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6461
  • Location: United States
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2018, 07:49:17 AM »
Another four out today.  Thank goodness.

I wonder if they can get five out in a day (tomorrow) or if one person will be left alone.  (Also, apparently the kids in strongest physical condition were brought out first, so I wonder if tomorrow will be a day of sad news.)

I heard today they brought the weakest out.  Possibly they started the first day with the strongest to make sure the plan worked; then they did it based on need for medical attention?

As for one person left alone- there are a number of rescue workers (including a doctor) in there with them, so the coach wouldn't be alone if he is left for another day.

John Galt incarnate!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2018, 10:48:56 AM »
It's possible they are using Nitrox instead of regular compressed air, but I can't think of a reason for that, since Nitrox is generally used to increase bottom time at medium depths, and none of that seems to apply here.  So I assume this is just a case of the media getting it wrong.

I'm a pretty experienced diver (about 30 years and well over 200 dives, including some caverns and a couple caves) and I can't imagine trying to remove a tank in tight quarters and possibly zero viz, when you aren't really familiar with your equipment and what is wear.  Never mind the fact that some people freak out and panic and can't continue diving when they are in open ocean, fairly shallow with bottom and surface in sight, and 100 foot visibility.  This type of trip would feel like a pretty big risk for me as an experienced diver.  I can't image in inexperienced, malnourished, terrified 11 year old kid trying to do it.  I know there is no other better option, so I guess all we can do is wish them well.

I heard that the boys have to swim underwater for 2 miles to escape.

If true, their escape is an amazing feat.

v8rx7guy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
  • Location: PNW
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2018, 10:56:24 AM »
It's possible they are using Nitrox instead of regular compressed air, but I can't think of a reason for that, since Nitrox is generally used to increase bottom time at medium depths, and none of that seems to apply here.  So I assume this is just a case of the media getting it wrong.

I'm a pretty experienced diver (about 30 years and well over 200 dives, including some caverns and a couple caves) and I can't imagine trying to remove a tank in tight quarters and possibly zero viz, when you aren't really familiar with your equipment and what is wear.  Never mind the fact that some people freak out and panic and can't continue diving when they are in open ocean, fairly shallow with bottom and surface in sight, and 100 foot visibility.  This type of trip would feel like a pretty big risk for me as an experienced diver.  I can't image in inexperienced, malnourished, terrified 11 year old kid trying to do it.  I know there is no other better option, so I guess all we can do is wish them well.

I heard that the boys have to swim underwater for 2 miles to escape.

If true, their escape is an amazing feat.

Ehhh not so much.  Only portions of it require swimming under water.  They also rescued the first 4 at the lowest point the water had been, exposing a lot more open chambers.  This is a dated video, but it shows it pretty nicely in 3D:

http://digg.com/video/thai-cave-rescue-explained

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6461
  • Location: United States
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2018, 11:26:15 AM »
I heard that the boys have to swim underwater for 2 miles to escape.

If true, their escape is an amazing feat.

Even though that isn't true, quite honestly if they get all of them out alive it is an AMAZING feat.  Cave dive is extraordinarily dangerous, even if you are highly trained. It is good they are able to walk more areas then they originally thought they would, but some of the diving portions are still very tight squeezes.

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5312
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2018, 11:29:01 AM »
Good job they are not average American kids.. They would never fit through!

v8rx7guy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
  • Location: PNW
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2018, 11:50:56 AM »
Good job they are not average American kids.. They would never fit through!

Sad, but true! Haha

erutio

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2018, 12:48:26 PM »
I can't imagine being an 11 year old boy, in a malnourished, weakened state, leaving the "safety" of their 2-week survival spot, having to do a combination of walk, crawl, swim, dive for 5-6 straight hours, in pitch dark conditions, murky/muddy waters, SCUBA-ing for the first time in their lives, with their lives dependent on it. 

The second set of 4 boys just made it out this morning.  The first set were taken to the hospital via ambulance.  Helicopters were used this time, hopefully, everyone is ok.

You wonder if they were informed of the one volunteer diver, who was an ex-Thai SEAL, who died.  On one hand, I can see the argument for keeping the kids informed of everything that was happening, and so that they know the full extent of the risks.  On the other hand, I can see the argument for shielding the information from them to protect them.  No wrong/right answer, just curious what happened. Truly incredibly stuff here.

If this rescue operation is a success, this is amazing and a true miracle.

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5469
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2018, 02:21:54 AM »
We're now five hours into the planned rescue of the remaining five.

Apparently Elon Musk has been told to piss off and get out of the way too. Supposably his ego was too big to fit in the cave.

Fingers crossed all goes well.


G-dog

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9764
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2018, 05:27:17 AM »
We're now five hours into the planned rescue of the remaining five.

Apparently Elon Musk has been told to piss off and get out of the way too. Supposably his ego was too big to fit in the cave.

Fingers crossed all goes well.

Hahaha (re: Elon Musk).

If conditions allow the same pace as the previous extractions, we should hear something soon.

ETA: from CNN one hour ago
“Nineteen divers entered the cave at 10 a.m. local time Tuesday (11 p.m. Monday ET), as officials said they planned to bring out all the remaining members of the soccer team, their 25-year-old coach and four experts who have been by their side since they were found on a rocky ledge early last week.”

Three of these boys are out (yay!) Leaving one more boy, the coach, and the four experts.

ETA2: they are all out! No word on the four experts - but I don’t expect that to be announced. Amazing.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 06:05:07 AM by G-dog »

okits

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6576
  • Location: Canada
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2018, 07:22:27 AM »
What at relief!  Tinged with sadness, at the death of the rescue diver and the suffering of the trapped boys and their families.  I hope they will mentally and physically recover from this.

G-dog

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9764
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2018, 08:04:00 AM »
What at relief!  Tinged with sadness, at the death of the rescue diver and the suffering of the trapped boys and their families.  I hope they will mentally and physically recover from this.

The world needed a good happy ending.  I don’t know how much more we will hear in the US, but there is a lot more to come for all of these folks.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3029
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2018, 08:57:29 AM »
What at relief!  Tinged with sadness, at the death of the rescue diver and the suffering of the trapped boys and their families.  I hope they will mentally and physically recover from this.

The world needed a good happy ending.  I don’t know how much more we will hear in the US, but there is a lot more to come for all of these folks.

Relevant.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5312
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2018, 10:59:42 AM »
@Kris .. I too have been thinking about this.. I mean How many kids are dying per day in bomb strikes in Yemen where the locals are now collecting rocket/bomb parts with "Made in the USA stickers". The fact that the US provides these weapons in not lost on the local population incidently.

How many are dying in Syria and the refuge crisis in the Middle East and from Myanmar.

With all this going on we are transfixed on 12 kids stuck in a cave.

I dunno its a little strange what we choose to focus on as a human race.

driftwood

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 212
Re: The kids in the Thailand cave
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2018, 03:52:33 PM »
What at relief!  Tinged with sadness, at the death of the rescue diver and the suffering of the trapped boys and their families.  I hope they will mentally and physically recover from this.

The world needed a good happy ending.  I don’t know how much more we will hear in the US, but there is a lot more to come for all of these folks.

Relevant.

Sadly, this is easier to focus on and care about than the other, larger, longer-lasting problems in the world. These kids were in trouble... in a matter of days they were rescued by a combination of cooperating people. Yay! Public attention for any drawn-out problem has always been an issue.
*Nothing I post should be taken too seriously*