The Fitness Megathread

[tuyop]

This is the Mr Money Mustache Forum Fitness Thread

Table of Contents

Introduction
Women and Training
The Benefits of Barbell Strength Training
The Benefits of Endurance Sports
Weight Loss/Gain: How to eat right
Beginner Programming (coming soon)
Intermediate Programming (coming soon)
Injury Prevention and Treatment (coming soon)
Resources (coming soon)
Introduction

This thread is a starting point for Mustachians who are already very fit and swole to hang out and talk about being fit and swole, and for Mustachians who want to fix their lives and bodies by becoming fit and swole.

The easiest way to express the thesis of this thread is: there are no free lunches. If you want to be fit, strong, physically attractive, and/or healthy, then there is only one reliable approach to take, and it’s very simple: Lift heavy weights using barbells, practice some reasonably strenuous cardiovascular activity in the form of endurance sports or other stuff regularly, eat enough healthful, whole foods, and minimize stress by getting enough rest.

If you eat well, eat enough, exercise often and well, and think often, then you will probably be a healthy, happy, interesting individual who is part of the solution to whatever problems may exist in the world. All of this stuff is also very cheap, sustainable, and seems to generate happiness for the people around you.

A balanced diet is important:

Eat a ton of fruits and vegetables from as many varieties of species, cuisines, cooking methods and ranges of colour as possible, all from the best source you can afford or get. Local organic is best, then organic, then regular supermarket vegetables (for environmental reasons, rather than nutritional). This will insure that you cover many of the obscure deficiencies that may be ruining your performance. Eat your leafy greens for calcium, magnesium, folate, betaine and all that stuff; eat lots of sulfurous veggies for their obscure magical benefits; and eat lots of colourful veggies for their awesome carotenoids and betalains.

Eat a bit of meat. Source is very important for two reasons: nutritionally and morally. If you are a thinking person who is properly educated about the sapient or sentient nature of animals, there are very few reasons why you should willingly allow animals to be cruelly treated and killed in your name. Therefore, if you must eat meat, which many people do due to dietary constraints or activity requirements, then you ought to make sure that the source of that meat lives well and doesn't suffer or destroy the environment. Nutritionally, it seems like grass-fed beef has some benefits and free-range chicken may also be more healthful. This makes sense intuitively because eating sick animals will probably tend to make you sick. So don't eat sick animals. Also, don't eat too much animals because they're very demanding on the environment and the wallet and some studies say your health.

Eat some grain, dairy, and similar products sometimes if you want. The bulk of your diet should be good, varied, organic vegetables. Be a steward to your body and the planet because you only have one of each.

Calories are important. If you are fat, you should eat fewer calories than you expend until you are no longer fat. There is simply no other way to reliably lose weight, even if you eat all the fucking magnesium and organosulfate xenthocarotenoids in the world.

If you’re wondering how many calories to eat to sustain fat loss, simply take your desired bodyweight and multiply it by ten. For instance, I want to weigh 180 pounds lean, so I eat 1800 calories per day. More on this later.

Exercise is important. Lift some weights using some of the totally excellent resources on the internet to find a qualified trainer. Go for a run, row, bike ride, or swim fairly regularly and break a sweat, and choose to use your muscles instead of the stored solar energy of the planet (aka fossil fuels) when it makes sense to do so - I mean, take the goddamn stairs.

Thinking is important. An increasing body of evidence shows that constantly learning and challenging your mind has many positive health benefits. Stay away from passive entertainment, learn to make your own cheese, yogurt, honey, candles, whatever. Learn Russian, just because. Learn new sports and go on adventures.

There are no weird old tips to lose belly fat. Spot reduction is a myth. You can not “burn” fat in an area by exercising that area. The only way to lose fat is to lower caloric intake below the level of caloric use to a moderate level for a significant period of time. That’s it. You will lose fat from different areas of your body based entirely on factors that are beyond your control like genetics, sex, and age.

Women and Training

There is no difference between exercise prescriptions for women and men.

That’s all there is to say about that. Women will not get “bulky” from lifting weights unless they take steroids. Youtube “female Olympic lifters” for fun and information. The only thing that happens to women when they lift weights is they end up looking like Jessica Biel.
The Benefits of Barbell Strength Training

I’m going to let Mark Rippetoe himself take the lead on this one, because he’s totally excellent:

“Physical strength is the most important thing in life. This is true whether we want it to be or not. As humanity has developed throughout history, physical strength has become less critical to our daily existence, but no less important to our lives. Our strength, more than any other thing we possess, still determines the quality and the quantity of our time here in these bodies. Whereas previously our physical strength determined how much food we ate and how warm and dry we stayed, it now merely determines how well we function in these new surroundings we have crafted for ourselves as our culture has accumulated. But we are still animals - our physical existence is, in the final analysis, the only one that actually matters. A weak man is not as happy as that same man would be if he were strong. This reality is offensive to some people who would like the intellectual or spiritual to take precedence. It is instructive to see what happens to these very people as their squat strength goes up.

…

Over and above any considerations of performance for sports, exercise is the stimulus that returns our bodies to the conditions for which they were designed. Humans are not physically normal in the absence of hard physical effort. Exercise is not a thing we do to fix a problem - it is a thing we must do anyway, a thing without which there will always be problems. Exercise is the thing we must do to replicate the conditions under which our physiology was — and still is - adapted, the conditions under which we are physically normal. In other words, exercise is substitute cave-man activity, the thing we need to make our bodies, and in fact our minds, normal in the 21st century. And merely normal, for most worthwhile humans, is not good enough.” (Starting Strength 2nd ed., 2007 p. 2) Link is to 3rd ed., which I don’t have but I’m sure is still great.

Awesome, right? Go get a Curves membership and rock a machine circuit. Not so fast! Machines are the enemy.

Machines took hold in commercial gyms for the main reason that it allowed the gym to offer strength training to the public with no training. Before Nautilus machines, a person who wanted to become strong and train seriously had to learn how to use barbells. This required a trainer, and someone to train the trainer. This type of education is time consuming and expensive. With the advent of machines, an uneducated, minimum-wage employee can be taught how to give customers a quick tutorial on the machines very easily. However, machines don’t work for effectively and efficiently producing functional strength in an individual. Many people have had the experience where they commit and train on a machine circuit for weeks or months, see no change in their body composition or performance, and give up.

Machines train bodyparts in isolation, which is contrary to how they developed in nature over millions of years of evolution. The human body is a system and needs to be trained according to its natural function. Rippetoe again, ”Properly performed, full range-of-motion barbell exercises are essentially the functional expression of human skeletal and muscular anatomy under a load.” Training with barbells allows each individual to make minute, split-second corrections to form and technique depending on their own anthropometry, strength level, and neuromuscular efficiency. There is no machine that can replicate the safety, flexibility, balance, and coordination that is trained by even the most simple, correctly performed, barbell exercises.

The most important thing to know about strength training is that it must be performed correctly.There are two ways to learn correct form:

1. Read many books, start light, and carefully consult people who know how to lift correctly on the internet or in real life.

This is how I learned more than six years ago, and I don’t recommend it at all. You can eventually learn to lift properly this way by holding yourself to a brutally exact standard and repeatedly studying and tweaking your form. However, I have experience horrible exercise-induced injuries that have set me back for months that I may not have experienced if I had been professionally taught. Be careful.

2. Hire someone who knows how to lift and how to teach someone how to lift.

The easiest way to do this is to find a good Crossfit gym in the area and tell them that you want to learn powerlifting and Olympic lifting. You can probably negotiate prices with them over the 5-10 sessions that it will take you to learn the form correctly. This is not a kijiji personal trainer or a trainer at your gym. When I asked one of the “trainers” at my gym to spot my snatch for form, he said, “What’s a snatch?” He was also full of sage wisdom like: “Don’t let your knees pass over your toes in the squat” and “Look up during the deadlift”. I’m glad I didn’t pay for his services.

Strength training is a fundamental component of any weight loss strategy because it has a powerful metabolic component. It’s simple: muscle burns a lot of calories in order to maintain itself, weight lifting builds muscle, therefore if you lift weights your body will burn more calories to maintain your gains, which allows you to lose weight more quickly.

Lifting weights is also the single most effective way to make yourself look really really good and get functionally better at the physical and mental aspects of life.
The Benefits of Endurance Sports

Running, cycling, rowing, cross-country skiing, and swimming are a few sports that are classified as endurance sports. They are also components of other sports like the triathlon, decathlon, and biathlon.

Endurance sports have the advantage of having a very low barrier to entry. If you know how to walk, you can probably run for a short distance, and then build from there.

These sports also have some cool health and stress-reducing benefits. They help improve the functioning of your cardiovascular system - so your heart, lungs, and all that other stuff, help to improve your metabolism, improve hormone levels by reducing cortisol and increasing endorphin levels and insulin sensitivity, and these activities can help to improve your body’s ability to repair damaged muscles (aka recovery) which helps you get stronger.

As part of being a healthy human, you should try to get a good sweat on every day for like thirty minutes. There are many programs on the internet for improving your performance in any of these sports.

Personally, I’m on a hate quest to improve my swimming, the other day I swam 1500m freestyle in 58 minutes, which is basically the same speed as allowing the current in the pool to propel me from one side to the other for an hour. I just recently learned because I want to get into triathlons and obese nine-year-old girls regularly lap me, so this is an area that I’m weak in and it takes me far out of my comfort zone three or four times a week which is excellent!

My point is that if I can put myself into some tiny shorts and goggles regularly and flop around like an injured dog in the water for 80 minutes in the middle of my work day, you can too!
Weight Loss/Gain: How to Eat Right
_{Most of this section is heavily borrowed or directly stolen from the Something Awful Forums guide. I didn't want to reinvent the wheel here and I like their style.}

The only way to lose weight is to eat fewer calories than you expend in a day. There is simply no other way short of cosmetic surgery to stop being fat.

This means that if you're serious about weight loss, you must start meticulously weighing and measuring the food that you eat. Use a food scale. If you don't do this, you will almost certainly under-estimate the amount of calories that you are consuming.

Here is how to do this (note: I shamelessly stole this and did not write it myself):

Set your calorie goal
To lose weight, add a zero to your weight. Eat that many calories per day. Don't worry about how many calories you burn from exercise—this is your calorie goal whether or not you workout on a particular day.
Guys: If you weigh 250lbs or more, then your goal is 2500.
Gals: If you weigh 200lbs or more, then your goal is 2000.

If you don't want to gain or lose much weight, multiply your weight by 14 to get your calorie goal. Or, since your weight tends to hold steady anyway, simply focus on eating more protein and fiber (including more vegetables), and work out as per the programming section

On the off chance that you're trying to gain weight, multiply your weight by 16 and eat the food.

Macronutrient goals (aka eat protein)
•   Protein: Eat 1g/pound bodyweight at minimum. Women and obese folks: eat 1g/pound of your ultimate goal bodyweight at minimum. 4 calories per gram. It's easier than it sounds—a typical chicken breast has 30-60g.
•   Dietary fat: Multiply your calorie goal by 0.25. Divide that number by 9. That's your minimum grams of fat per day. 9 calories per gram. Get it from a variety of sources, such as animals, olive oil, avocados, nuts, etc.
•   Carbohydrate: Eat 100g/day at minimum. You can go lower if you want, but some people don't function well on very low carb diets (and your breath might start to smell like ammonia). People who exercise a lot (or are gaining weight) will generally need more carbs than people who don't. 4 calories per gram.
You can then fill in your remaining calories with whatever macronutrients you want, which allows you to eat a variety of foods. If you want to simplify this further, then just focus on your calorie and minimum protein goals. As long as you hit those numbers, and don't intentionally avoid fats or carbs (i.e. don't buy all "low fat" or "low carb" stuff), then things will work themselves out.

Supplements
Take 6g fish oil per day (you'll hear arguments for taking more or for less. 6 is the midpoint). It's good for you. If you can't eat enough delicious animals to get your protein, then try whey protein shakes. If you have loads of money to throw around and you want to try all of the powders, I’m sure someone here can give you some hot tips about weird terrible-tasting powders. Note that supplements won't make up for a poor diet and half-assed exercise. Get your shit together before you go nuts on supplements.

Make sure you're eating as much (little) as you think you are
Overweight people underestimate how many calories they consume. If you were the exception, you wouldn't be reading this

You're going to use nutrition facts labels, aka that white thing on your box of cookies with the numbers on it. Buy a food scale. Get a set of measuring cups and spoons, too. Then create an account on any of these:
•   My Fitness Pal
•   Cronometer
•   The Daily Plate
•   Sparkpeople
•   Fitday
Ignore their calorie, carb, protein, and fat goals. Customize them to what's in this guide. Remember, ignore any bonus calories they say you've "earned" from exercise. Focus on the goal you already made, regardless of if you've exercised that day.

Nutrition Labels
Use the nutritional labels on packaged food to portion out your food. Pay attention to the serving size and how many calories and macronutrients that provides. Use your scale to measure the number of servings you want. You don't have to weigh items that are pre-portioned, such as slices of bread. Just make sure you know how many slices make up one serving.

When eating an entire container of something, make sure you look at the "servings per container." That little bag of nuts might have only 150 calories per serving, but if there are 3 servings per bag, then you just ate 450 calories. Some companies are very tricky about this, especially with vending machine-sized packages, so pay attention to those labels.

Don't bother measuring vegetables. They have next to nothing for calories and unless you eat all of the carrots, they won't stunt your efforts. Eat lots of veggies. You should, however, measure any oil/dressing/etc. you eat with them.

Continued in next post.

[tuyop]

Food scale instructions
Put your plate/bowl on the scale. Tare (zero) the scale. Put your food on it. Note the number so you can log it into your tracker. Then tare the scale and repeat for your next ingredient. Repeat until you've done all your ingredients. Incidentally, it's easier to use your tracker to plan meals in advance, and then go measure them out per your plan. It's also best to use the gram/oz measurement instead of the volume (cups, etc.) when possible, as weight measurements are more consistent. Two tablespoons of peanut butter, for example, may have more than one full serving, since you will never measure out a perfectly level tablespoon (and you'll probably lick the spoon), but 32g is 32g, so use the scale.

Measuring canned/jarred foods
There are two ways. We'll use peanut butter as an example. Suppose you want to measure one 32g serving.

1: Put your bread on the scale (on a plate, weirdo). Tare your food scale. Scoop PB onto your bread until the scale reads 32g. If you scoop too much (more than an extra gram or two), then put some back in the jar until you're at or a bit below your target. Don't lick your knife, because then you'll be eating more than you planned.

2 (recommended): Put the jar on the scale and open it. Zero the scale. Scoop some out. Your scale will read a negative number, which is the amount you've removed. Scoop out more (or put some back) until you hit -32g, then dump it on your bread. Aside from being much easier, this method also makes it okay to lick the spoon, because your measurement includes that amount.

How do I measure ingredients which I'm cooking, such as rice or meat? They absorb/lose water...
Measure them uncooked. Make sure when you're logging them, you are logging the uncooked version. If you look up the specific brand/product, then the tracker entry should match the nutrition label (which almost always uses dry/raw portions). You will run into big problems if you measure 90g dry rice (which has about 320 calories) but then log 90g cooked rice (which has about 120, depending on how much water it absorbed).

Search your tracker's database for raw ingredients (such as meat and bulk ingredients) or other items without nutrition labels—they're in there. Look up the nutrition info for fast food/chain restaurants and plan a meal before you go to them. Download your tracker's app so you can scan barcodes.

If this number stuff sounds COMPLETELY OVERWHELMING, then scroll back up and read those books mentioned at the start. That said, if you are having trouble with weight loss and ask for help here, the first question everybody will ask is, “are you using a food scale and tracking everything?” If your answer is, “no,” then the advice will likely be, “do that for a while.”


Putting it together
Dude 1, 190lbs male who wants to weigh 180lbs.
Calorie Goal: 1900
Protein: 190g/day minimum
Fat: 53g/day minimum
Carbs: 100g/day minimum

Dude 2, 160lbs male who wants to weigh 180lbs
Calorie Goal: 2550 (rounded)
Protein: 160g/day minimum
Fat: 71g/day minimum
Carbs: 100g/day minimum, but he should probably fill in most of his remaining calories with carbs.

Dude(ette) 3, 160lbs female who wants to weigh 125lbs
Calorie Goal: 1600
Protein: 125g/day minimum
Fat: 45g/day minimum
Carbs: 100g/day minimum

Dude 4, 320lbs male who wants to weigh 200lbs
Calorie Goal: 2500
Protein: 200g/day minimum
Fat: 70g/day minimum
Carbs: 100g/day minimum


What kind of stuff should I eat?
Feeling full and satisfied will help you feel better while dieting. Two important keys to feeling full are protein and fiber consumption. Fats are helpful, too. Make protein (poultry, steak, pork, fish, eggs, etc.) the foundation of each meal. Eat hella fibrous veggies and fresh, low calorie fruit (such as berries). Eat beans/lentils for a big dose of fiber and protein. If you love bread, look for "double fiber" or similar bread, so you're at least getting more fiber for the calories. If you don't know how to prepare basic food, use the internet or read a book, such as How To Cook Everything - The Basics.

Avoid food that's easy to overeat without feeling full, such as pretty much everything found in a vending machine or at fast food joints. Avoid added sugar (even if it's "natural" or cane sugar/agave/honey/whatever—it amounts to basically the same thing), stop snacking on junk food, stop drinking sugar water (including fruit juice, sugary vitamin/sport drinks, and regular soda), learn to appreciate coffee/tea without sugar packets, don't eat all those Krispie Kremes just because your boss brought them to work, don't find an excuse or “special occasion” to pig out every week, don't drink fuckloads of alcohol... basically, put some effort into your food choices and habits and eat like an adult.

If you're eating at a chain restaurant, you can probably find their menu in your food journal app, the company's website, or at this very nifty website, which will give you an idea of what's good to order.

Protip: For fast food fixes, Chipotle is fucking delicious and can be customized for your diet pretty easily. For example, you can get a burrito bowl without rice if you want to reduce carbs/calories, and/or get double meat for loads of protein.

Can I still enjoy things?
Of course! One of the tenets of Mustachianism is that joy comes from intrinsic sources, you don’t need any type of food or quantity of food to feel happy. And if you hit 90% of your meals on track, that’s good enough! So, you can dine out once or twice per week and not track that meal obsessively, as long as you're otherwise following your diet. Use this as a chance to eat and socialize like a "normal person" instead of "that person on some diet," and take a brief break from your plan. Don't use it as an excuse to pig out, though. Practice good habits, such as skipping the fried appetizer, getting steamed veggies instead of rice, limiting your bread and butter, having reasonable amounts of booze/pizza, and skipping dessert or at least splitting it with someone (that molten brownie has about 1300 goddamn calories). The idea is to enjoy yourself without making it a mission to cram in as much food as you can. Eat the burger.

How often should I eat?
As often as you get hungry. If you get hungry frequently, then you'll eat a lot of small meals. If you don't get hungry frequently, then you'll eat a few larger meals. Just make sure you're hitting your goals before you go to bed. No, you don't need to worry about constantly fueling your metabolism with small meals—this is a thoroughly debunked myth. Your body isn't going to devour itself if you go 181 minutes without eating. You can also skip breakfast if you don't feel hungry in the morning ("kick-starting the metabolism" in the morning is also a myth). Don't eat if you're not hungry, and eat meals which will keep you full (protein, fiber, etc).

If you're lifting weights (which you will be unless you want to get skinnyfat), it's generally suggested that you have a meal shortly before or after lifting, and to have some starchy carbs (bread, pasta, rice, etc.) in that meal.

How quickly will I lose/gain weight?
Depends, but generally speaking, obese people lose 1-2lbs/week. Overweight people typically hover around 1lbs/week. Lighter people trying to get lean are more like .5lbs-1lbs. Very lean people trying to get ripped are not reading this.

If you're trying to gain weight, it's generally suggested that guys target about 2-4 pounds per month, and gals target about 1-2 pounds per month.

Tracking weight
Weigh yourself once per day under the same conditions (ex. in the morning, after using the bathroom, before eating/drinking). Bodyweight can fluctuate by several pounds per day simply due to water retention (obese people and menstruating women are particularly susceptible to this), so don't panic if your weight spikes up 5-10lbs overnight or doesn't budge for a week or two—it's normal. It's annoying, but it's normal.

Get an account on Physics Diet or get the Libra app to track your weight, as it averages out these fluctuations and shows a trendline. Also, it makes charts, and you probably love charts. If you are weightlifting (which, again, you will be), then initial weight loss may be slowed, since beginners can build muscle and lose fat simultaneously. This is perfectly fine—it means you'll look much better as you lean out. If your clothes are fitting better, then you're on the right track, even if the scale isn't budging yet.

If your weight doesn't budge much after a month, and your clothes aren't fitting better, then ask for help.

Swole mustachian Donovan likes bodyweight training as an alternative to barbell strength training. I think it's way better than Zumba but I'll let him explain!

I wrote this up for those of us who, for whatever reasons, cannot train in a traditional gym but would still like to increase our strength.  This is a very light, informative article based off of my personal study of bodyweight training over two or so years. For more detailed information, I suggest checking out the books recommended below.


Bodyweight Conditioning

   Although most good fitness advice deals with the domain of barbells for strength training, there is no reason to ignore bodyweight exercises in a conditioning program.  Most of the time they are used for accessory work after a main lift (eg, sets of dips after a Bench Press).  However, with some research it is possible to build an entire strength program from bodyweight exercises.  Here are some basic advantages / disadvantages of both systems:

Advantages of free weights:

• Infinitely scalable with the same exercise
  
• Exact, measurable progression in difficulty
• Olympic lifts cannot be approximated with bodyweight exercises

Disadvantages of free weights:

• Most important: requires access to free weights and racks
• As such, harder to do while traveling or without paying for a gym membership if you cannot build a small gym at home (like in an apartment)

Advantages of bodyweight:

• Can be done essentially anywhere
• Requires little to no equipment
• Promotes good body composition

Disadvantages of bodyweight:

• Progress is harder to track due to more complicated loading (via changes in leverage)
• There is technically a plateau of maximum loading (but it is extremely hard to reach)
• Some barbell exercises cannot be approximated (like truly heavy squats or Oly lifts)

   Obviously, if your goal is to become a power lifter or other strength athlete, you are going to have to put your time in under the bar. However, for those looking to achieve a basic to badass level of strength outside of competition, bodyweight training can provide an alternate route that does not require expensive gym memberships.

Helpful Equipment

   Although one of the benefits of bodyweight training is the ability to do it almost anywhere with no equipment, there are a few pieces that are extremely useful in increasing the variety and difficulty of training that you can do.

• Parallettes – helps with L-sits, Handstand Push-ups, and Planche progressions
  These can easily be homemade (I have made 2 sets, one wood and one PVC)
• Pull-up bar – Both ceiling/wall mounted and door-frame bars work. I prefer ceiling, but if you can only place one in a door frame you will not miss out on much.
• Gymnastics Rings – These are my favorite toys. It is probably best to buy these, as they would be hard to make.  They offer significantly more training variety thanks to their adjustable height and their lack of stability.  They are also the best way to do Dips, one of the core strength exercises of a good bodyweight program.
• Dip belt/chain and small weights – A small amount of weights (30lbs in small increments will last you a long time) can be used in Pull-ups, Dips, and Hanging Leg Raises to add measurable loading to the exercises.

The Movements

   Bodyweight exercises can be broken down into several categories, which we will later use to create a variable program.

Push:

• Push-up
• Planche
• Dips
• Handstand Push-up
• Muscle-up (push and pull)

Pull:

• Pull-up
• Back Lever
• Front Lever
• Bodyweight row
• Muscle-up (push and pull)

Core:

• L-Sit / V-Sit
• Manna (advanced)
• Hanging Leg Raises
• Bridges

Legs:

• Squats
• Pistols (One-legged squat)
• Jumps (for vertical or horizontal distance)
• Jumping Rope

   All of these movements can be broken down further into many difficulty levels, which I cannot go over well here.  All of the information on how to progress within each exercise is available free on the internet with a little looking. A few good places to start:
www.beastskills.com
www.drillsandskills.com

   There are also several fantastic books on the subject, which you should be able to find at the library. My favorites are:
Convict Conditioning by Paul Wade (primarily for beginners)
Building the Gymnastic Body by Christopher Sommer (more advanced, and very practical)
Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low (500+ solid pages of information. A slow but awesome read.)

Programming

   Bodyweight programming is based on the same overload/recovery cycle as any other strength regime. The main difference is how we achieve this overload over time.  Rather than adding weight like a barbell user, to gain ground with bodyweight exercises you have to carefully control the progression difficulty, number of reps, and number of sets.  The key is to work at a progression where you can perform 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps while feeling like you are 1-2 reps away from failure.  As you continue with that progression level over the weeks, you can add sets and reps to your routine until you are capable of performing 5x8-10 reps of the exercise without failing. At that point, you can continue on to the next level progression of the exercise.

   For static holds (like L-sits), a similar scheme is used, but based off of your maximum hold time. For example, if you can hold a good L-sit for 10 seconds maximum, then to train you could hold sets of 5 seconds, with rests of 30-60 seconds in between, until you have reached a target volume of time (say, 60 seconds or 12 sets).  Once this has become easy, you can re-test your maximum and adjust the time accordingly (ex. If your new max is 20s, hold 10s to add up to 90s, or 9 sets).

   To build a full-body routine, a good rule of thumb is the 3-5 system: workout 3-5 days a week, using 3-5 sets of 3-5 exercises.  For a full-body routine, ever day should incorporate at least 1 pushing exercise, 1 pulling exercise, 1 leg exercise, and some skill work.  As an example:

M/W/F 3-5 sets of:

Back Lever Hold
Weighted Ring Dips
Pull-ups
L-Sit
Pistols

   When it comes to exercise selection, there are several ways to go about it.  One way is like the example above, which is to choose a single set of exercises that you want to improve on and focus entirely on those for an entire training cycle (typically a month or two).  This will lead to great improvements in the selected exercises, but you will need to choose them carefully so that you do not neglect any part of the body.

   Another good option is to change out some exercises during different training days.  So, with the above program it would be possible to swap out the Back Lever Holds with Front Levers, and the L-Sits with Planche progressions, every other training day.  This will lead to slower progress in each of the skill areas that gets swapped out, but it will also make it easier to create a comprehensive program.  It should be noted that a few exercises should hold over for the entire training cycle.  These should correspond with your ultimate goal, and if this is general strength then Pull-ups and Dips area  good, balanced place to start.

[Donovan]

I think we should throw in some information about bodyweight training as well. I don't have time for an extended write up right this moment, but I've switched over to bodyweight after 4 years under a barbell in order to save money this summer (good gyms in Chicago are too damned expensive), and it's been very effective and interesting.  I will not say equally effective as barbell training (well, more effective for gymnastic skills and less effective for raw bench or squat), but for those who should not be paying for a Crossfit gym at this point in their lives, and who live somewhere that they cannot construct their own mini-gym, it is a very good alternative.

[tuyop]

I think we should throw in some information about bodyweight training as well. I don't have time for an extended write up right this moment, but I've switched over to bodyweight after 4 years under a barbell in order to save money this summer (good gyms in Chicago are too damned expensive), and it's been very effective and interesting.  I will not say equally effective as barbell training (well, more effective for gymnastic skills and less effective for raw bench or squat), but for those who should not be paying for a Crossfit gym at this point in their lives, and who live somewhere that they cannot construct their own mini-gym, it is a very good alternative.

Bodyweight training is great for austere environments and also as a good introduction to fitness with a low barrier to entry. I agree that it should be included in the post in that context.

I forgot about it because I associate it with excuses and justifications, I guess. I've met and tried to train many people who, for years, have only done bodyweight or light "resistance" work and used that time spent moving their limbs around in vaguely uncomfortable ways to feel good about massive deficiencies in their lifestyles and attitudes that slowly put them on a path of pathology and misery despite (because of?) the hours spent doing planks at Good Life.

Which is strange, because I think a good program can incorporate all sorts of bodyweight work. Actually, bodyweight circuits are probably the best way to train the anaerobic glycolysis system short of sprints.

It's a bit complicated and really depends on your goals, I just find it hard to imagine a set of non-sport-specific goals that would be better served by doing a bunch of planks and anchored situps than hard squats, deadlifts and bench presses. Not to mention the insane benefits to attitude generated by successfully getting underneath a huge amount of weight on a regular basis and battling gravity's relentless desire to crush you. It may just be me, but 100 burpees sucks but doesn't make me feel like the kickass monster that a 400lb deadlift does. That feeling is worth all the DOMS and injury and recovery in the world.

[GuitarStv]

I'd like to see information about exercise and pregnancy - specifically weight training.

Stuff on the internet is all over the map regarding this . . . some say weight training is fine, some say the valsalva maneuver kills babies (despite the fact that you use it every time you poop or blow your nose).  Some sources indicate that nothing more strenuous than walking should be done by pregnant women.

It doesn't make sense to me that a woman who has been regularly strength training prior to having a baby would need to drop all exercises the moment she learns of her pregnancy.  It also doesn't make sense to me that you would be able to keep going full force for the whole nine months.  There needs to be a happy medium, but there seems to be surprisingly little research about this.

[tuyop]

I'd like to see information about exercise and pregnancy - specifically weight training.

Stuff on the internet is all over the map regarding this . . . some say weight training is fine, some say the valsalva maneuver kills babies (despite the fact that you use it every time you poop or blow your nose).  Some sources indicate that nothing more strenuous than walking should be done by pregnant women.

It doesn't make sense to me that a woman who has been regularly strength training prior to having a baby would need to drop all exercises the moment she learns of her pregnancy.  It also doesn't make sense to me that you would be able to keep going full force for the whole nine months.  There needs to be a happy medium, but there seems to be surprisingly little research about this.

My personal acid test that I employ whenever someone tells me that a group "can't" or "shouldn't" do something is to imagine the past 7 million years of hominid and upright ape evolution.

I can imagine pregnant humans 40 000 years ago having fairly active lifestyles and continuing to participate in the activities required to survive as a hunter gatherer. I can't imagine spontaneous fetus death due to physical activity in a species that has spent nearly all of its history as a very physically active animal, in fact I would expect the exact opposite and expect to see increased levels of pathology and infant problems in sedentary populations. Hm... to the literature!

Start with "literature", the Crossfit Journal:

"What we do know from the small group of studies that have been done is that “light resistance training” has been shown to positively affect some pregnancy and birth outcomes, and, perhaps more importantly, has not shown any negative effects (Table 1).
...
A standard resistance-training session is shown in Table 2. A comparison of the exercise volume and intensity between a sample CrossFit workout and a standard resistance-training session is shown in Table 4. Based on this comparison, the CrossFit workout is approximately three times the prescribed exercise volume (in one session) and five times the prescribed exercise intensity. Astonishing.
…
In general, the [two women studied] did not find much need to scale but made some accommodations (modifications) as their pregnancies progressed and their bellies became larger. It is noteworthy to mention that of all the modified exercises mentioned by either women, neither woman had to modify any of the Olympic lifts and actually set several personal records in these lifts (see Table 5).
…
Perhaps the most critical result to report is that both women delivered healthy babies. Birth weight and gestational age are the best predictors of health of a newborn. The two women delivered babies of normal birth weight (7 lb. 8 oz. and 6 lb. 10 oz.), both between 40-41 weeks gestation (full term is considered 37-41 weeks). The women resumed CrossFit training 2.7 weeks and 1.7 weeks after delivery, respectively. While there is not a lot of research on resumption of physical activity after delivery, medical experts would advise caution in the first four-to-six weeks following delivery because physiological and morphological changes that occur with pregnancy persist into postpartum.”

But Crossfitters are just crazy, right?

And onto an actual study! From the Sports Medicine Journal (2011 Vol. 41 Issue 5, p345) Zavorsky and Longo,

” In 2002, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists published exercise guidelines for pregnancy, which suggested that in the absence of medical or obstetric complications, 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise a day on most, if not all, days of the week is recommended for pregnant women. However, these guidelines did not define 'moderate intensity' or the specific amount of weekly caloric expenditure from physical activity required. Recent research has determined that increasing physical activity energy expenditure to a minimum of 16 metabolic equivalent task (MET) hours per week, or preferably 28 MET hours per week, and increasing exercise intensity to ≥60% of heart rate reserve during pregnancy, reduces the risk of gestational diabetes mellitus and perhaps hypertensive disorders of pregnancy (i.e. gestational hypertension and pre-eclampsia) compared with less vigorous exercise. To achieve the target expenditure of 28 MET hours per week, one could walk at 3.2 km per hour for 11.2 hours per week (2.5 METs, light intensity), or preferably exercise on a stationary bicycle for 4.7 hours per week (-6-7 METs, vigorous intensity). The more vigorous the exercise, the less total time of exercise is required per week, resulting in ≥60% reduction in total exercise time compared with light intensity exercise. Light muscle strengthening performed over the second and third trimester of pregnancy has minimal effects on a newborn infant's body size and overall health. On the basis of this and other information, updated recommendations for exercise in pregnancy are suggested.”

Same old weak sauce recommendations, but there it is, and the research suggests that rigorous exercise during pregnancy can improve the mother and baby’s health. I can email the PDF of the full article if anyone wants it.

I think the key takeaway from this is that some women have done very rigorous exercise programs including heavy powerlifts and Olympic lifts. However, just like any person partaking in exercise, you should listen to your body and be aware of the warning signs.

Even though I’m not pregnant and could never be pregnant, it’s infuriating to me as a rabid feminist to read the forum comments I saw on my brief trawl. Everyone has an opinion on what pregnant women ought to do with their bodies and many men talk about “letting” their partners lift or work out hard. Fuck that, you know your body and are the most qualified person in the world to decide whether or not you should exercise and what’s safe for your baby. If exercise were as dangerous as many sources make it out to be, the species probably wouldn’t have survived long enough for some of us to become worthless sedentary sexist internet weightlifting pundits.

[Bakari]

This is the Mr Money Mustache Forum Fitness Thread

Table of Contents

Introduction
Women and Training
The Benefits of Barbell Strength Training
The Benefits of Endurance Sports
Weight Loss/How to Eat Good (coming soon)
Weight Gain/How to Eat EVERYTHING (coming soon)
Beginner Programming (coming soon)
Intermediate Programming (coming soon)
Injury Prevention and Treatment (coming soon)
Resources (coming soon)

Great so far!
Just curios how soon "coming soon" will be?

[tuyop]

This is the Mr Money Mustache Forum Fitness Thread

Table of Contents

Introduction
Women and Training
The Benefits of Barbell Strength Training
The Benefits of Endurance Sports
Weight Loss/How to Eat Good (coming soon)
Weight Gain/How to Eat EVERYTHING (coming soon)
Beginner Programming (coming soon)
Intermediate Programming (coming soon)
Injury Prevention and Treatment (coming soon)
Resources (coming soon)

Great so far!
Just curios how soon "coming soon" will be?

I'll probably write How to Eat Good tomorrow morning at work, I also have to update to include bodyweight work, photos of a motivational nature, and anyone else can chime in as well. I know we've got a few mustachians who are intermediate or low-advanced lifters who can probably talk about their training.

[GuitarStv]

Photo of a motivational nature:

[Kriegsspiel]

So what're everyone's training histories and current routines and goals?  I'm doing 531, been doing it for about 5 months now.  I'd like to (at least) bench 360, squat 450, press 240, and deadlift 500 this year, and of course get more jacked and tan.

I've had experience with:
Westside (about a year or so, college)
HST (several cycles, mostly in college)
bastardized Crossfit Football (6 months maybe, while I was in Afghanistan)
Military Athlete (~4 months, Afghanistan)
olympic lifting (badly, in high school, off and on since then, I had access to bumper plates from Feb 11 to June 12 so I did it pretty consistently then)

I've been lifting weights since I was in 7th grade.  Being in the military obviously hampered just raw strength gains, but whatever.  I lean more towards basic exercise, and basic periodization.

[tuyop]

How to eat right guide is up!

So what're everyone's training histories and current routines and goals?  I'm doing 531, been doing it for about 5 months now.  I'd like to (at least) bench 360, squat 450, press 240, and deadlift 500 this year, and of course get more jacked and tan.

I've had experience with:
Westside (about a year or so, college)
HST (several cycles, mostly in college)
bastardized Crossfit Football (6 months maybe, while I was in Afghanistan)
Military Athlete (~4 months, Afghanistan)
olympic lifting (badly, in high school, off and on since then, I had access to bumper plates from Feb 11 to June 12 so I did it pretty consistently then)

I've been lifting weights since I was in 7th grade.  Being in the military obviously hampered just raw strength gains, but whatever.  I lean more towards basic exercise, and basic periodization.

I just started 5/3/1, currently finishing up week 2. For my one rep maxes, I'd like to hit 1.5xBW bench press (265), 2xBW back squat (360), and 2.5xBW deadlift (440). My other goal is to complete a full triathlon in 2013, and I spend a lot of time swimming right now since my run is pretty good and my cycling is alright.

I also started a leangains-type IF program and I'm fucking floored at the results in just two weeks. Of course, I changed many things two weeks ago so it's impossible to say that diet is the key, but whatever, the missus is very pleased as well!

As for history, let's see. I was a regional fencing champion in my teens, and nationally competitive (ranked top-25 in my country). I joined the military at 19 and started Starting Strength and rocked that for about a year before going with Crossfit (mainsite with brandx scaling, then to Crossfit Milford which is the best, IMO) for a couple of years. Then my goals changed a bit and I started up a Westside program which I was on for six months or so, and now I'm doing the 5/3/1.

[Donovan]

This is the Mr Money Mustache Forum Fitness Thread

Table of Contents

Macronutrient goals (aka eat protein)
•   Protein: Eat 1g/pound bodyweight at minimum. Women and obese folks: eat 1g/pound of your ultimate goal bodyweight at minimum. 4 calories per gram. It's easier than it sounds—a typical chicken breast has 30-60g.

I've always been skeptical about this convenient rule, and have seen research that suggests it is almost double what can actually be synthesized by the body.

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/


As for my own experience, I didn't start lifting at all until Senior year of high school (I had to go shirtless on stage, which is a very good motivator :p )  After that, I got pretty addicted to the progress and started reading up on training principles/systems.  As I learned, I pretty much went from a system of stupid selectorized exercises (because that was all I really understood at the time) -> Big Three lifts -> Olympic Lifts -> Crossfit. Since then I've bounced around between hardcore Crossfit style workouts to pure strength (have tried SS, 5/3/1, and Juggernaut at various points) based off of what gym equipment is available to me at each time.

My main interest as far as sports go is the martial arts.  I have studied traditional Jujitsu and Judo, studied and instructed Muay Thai for a while near the end of college, and will be teaching more of that and studying sword fighting over the summer.

Over the last 3 months I've moved to an entirely bodyweight workout routine in an attempt to save money this summer by not paying for a gym. This has included handstand and planche training, weighted dips and pullups, back and front levers, and a few other gymnastic moves. I'm thinking of writing up something on the research I've done to put this together (3 nice thick books, think Rippetoe but for gymnastics), and I think I could summarize the journey nicely.

[tuyop]

I've always been skeptical about this convenient rule, and have seen research that suggests it is almost double what can actually be synthesized by the body.

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

I did some research since someone brought this up in the cheap protein thread.

Lyle MacDonald, who is a guy who cares about this stuff and literally wrote the book on protein summarizes the insane and pedantic work on protein intake this way:

"Some research seems to clearly indicate an increased requirement for protein. But it uses a methodology (nitrogen balance) that is questionable at best, so the low-protein folks will shoot it down.

Other research (done with low intensity aerobic work) suggests that training improves protein retention; that is, as athletes become more trained, their protein requirements may actually go down. But does research with lower intensity aerobic work apply to the kind of training a strength/power athlete is doing? Probably not, so the high protein researchers will shoot that down. Around and around it goes.

Some research (again using a questionable methodology) suggests that athletes need more protein when they start a new or intensified training program but after a couple of weeks, protein requirements go back down. What happens if you’re always pushing your limits day in, day out, week in, week out? Nobody knows.

...

A final problem is what’s being measured. Athletes want to know what will maximizes their performance, strength, power, speed, throwing, etc. Researchers invariably measure stuff of less relevance to athletes and coaches. Nitrogen balance, amino acid uptake, sometimes actual muscle growth is measured over the length of the study. Is the amount of protein needed to optimize performance different than what’s needed to maximize some aspect of muscular physiology?

An added issue is that solely looking at skeletal muscle may be missing pathways of importance to athletes. Immune system, connective tissue synthesis and a host of other pathways use amino acids; presumably athletes will upregulate those pathways. Meaning that true protein requirements, if you only look at what’s going on in the muscle, may be under-estimating what athletes truly need to maximize every aspect of performance."

And basically, he recommends 1.4g/lb/day because:

• "We don’t know how much protein is required to optimize all of the potential pathways important to athletes.
• We know that a protein intake of 1.4 g/lb (3.0 g/kg) isn’t harmful and may have benefits that are too small to be measured in research
• As long as eating lots of protein doesn’t keep an athlete from eating too few of the other nutrients (carbs/fats), there’s no reason to not eat a lot. And there may be benefits.

Essentially, a high protein intake won’t hurt an athlete (basically everything you may have read about the dangers of high protein intakes is nonsense), it may provide small benefits of importance to elite athletes and, at the end of the day athletes and coaches don’t give a shit about pedantic scientific debates over amino acid metabolism that gives researchers and nerds like me a giant hardon. Admittedly, they didn’t put it in exactly those terms but that’s the gist of it.

So here’s my recommendation, strength/power athletes should aim for 1.5 g/lb protein per day (again, this is about 3.3 g/kg for the metrically inclined). So for a 200 lb strength/power athlete, that’s 300 grams of protein per day. For a 300 lber, that’s 450 grams per day. If you’re Jeff Lewis, I imagine your protein requirements are basically ‘All of it’ or perhaps ‘A cow’. Per day."

See the article for references. He also has a good one on protein controversies.

I eat 1g/lb because it's a good compromise between what people who know say to eat and cost. I don't think that the 32g of protein that the difference between 1g and .82g makes will kill me or break the bank, so I'll continue.

[GuitarStv]

So what're everyone's training histories and current routines and goals?

My history has largely been martial arts related:
1 year Aikido (under Ray Kostaschuk)
5 years WTF Taekwondo (under Hyung Chul Kim)
3 years Muay Thai (under Sylvester Organka)
2 years Judo (under Brad Varsava)
4 years Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (under Scott Lewis - Team Nova Uniao, later under Omar Salvosa - Team Ascension)

I started lifting weights when in my thirdyear of BJJ following Stronglifts 5x5.  It worked well, but with BJJ training four times a week, I hit a wall regarding the amount of weight that I could handle.  The extra strength for weight seemed to help in competitions though, so I tried to keep it up.

Other than martial arts I like to stay in shape - play soccer, jogging, cycling, etc.

Have given up martial arts training for the time being (just don't have the schedule free for the amount I like to invest in it any more, and I can't be bothered to keep bulking/cutting to hit tournament weights . . . plus the black eyes and scraped up face never looks good in a professional environment  :P ).  Early this year I restarted lifting following the Starting Strength program and have been making good gains so far.  I'm doing that and a lot of cycling lately.  Would really like to hit a 400 lb deadlift this year (current max is 320), and I'd like to do at least one 100km ride.

[tuyop]

And in the tone of How to Eat Good:

This chart shows the micronutrients available in produce based on colour and arranged by cooking time (which is awesome!). Don't freak out about it and start working out your potassium and zinc intakes, just go eat tons of crazy veggies.


Click for article

I love this chart and I might just buy a copy next month ($18), not very mustachian but I value this kind of shit and I'd love to put it in a frame near the kitchen.

[Donovan]

I wrote this up for those of us who, for whatever reasons, cannot train in a traditional gym but would still like to increase our strength.  This is a very light, informative article based off of my personal study of bodyweight training over two or so years. For more detailed information, I suggest checking out the books recommended below.


Bodyweight Conditioning

   Although most good fitness advice deals with the domain of barbells for strength training, there is no reason to ignore bodyweight exercises in a conditioning program.  Most of the time they are used for accessory work after a main lift (eg, sets of dips after a Bench Press).  However, with some research it is possible to build an entire strength program from bodyweight exercises.  Here are some basic advantages / disadvantages of both systems:

Advantages of free weights:

• Infinitely scalable with the same exercise
  
• Exact, measurable progression in difficulty
• Olympic lifts cannot be approximated with bodyweight exercises

Disadvantages of free weights:

• Most important: requires access to free weights and racks
• As such, harder to do while traveling or without paying for a gym membership if you cannot build a small gym at home (like in an apartment)

Advantages of bodyweight:

• Can be done essentially anywhere
• Requires little to no equipment
• Promotes good body composition

Disadvantages of bodyweight:

• Progress is harder to track due to more complicated loading (via changes in leverage)
• There is technically a plateau of maximum loading (but it is extremely hard to reach)
• Some barbell exercises cannot be approximated (like truly heavy squats or Oly lifts)

   Obviously, if your goal is to become a power lifter or other strength athlete, you are going to have to put your time in under the bar. However, for those looking to achieve a basic to badass level of strength outside of competition, bodyweight training can provide an alternate route that does not require expensive gym memberships.

Helpful Equipment

   Although one of the benefits of bodyweight training is the ability to do it almost anywhere with no equipment, there are a few pieces that are extremely useful in increasing the variety and difficulty of training that you can do.

• Parallettes – helps with L-sits, Handstand Push-ups, and Planche progressions
  These can easily be homemade (I have made 2 sets, one wood and one PVC)
• Pull-up bar – Both ceiling/wall mounted and door-frame bars work. I prefer ceiling, but if you can only place one in a door frame you will not miss out on much.
• Gymnastics Rings – These are my favorite toys. It is probably best to buy these, as they would be hard to make.  They offer significantly more training variety thanks to their adjustable height and their lack of stability.  They are also the best way to do Dips, one of the core strength exercises of a good bodyweight program.
• Dip belt/chain and small weights – A small amount of weights (30lbs in small increments will last you a long time) can be used in Pull-ups, Dips, and Hanging Leg Raises to add measurable loading to the exercises.

The Movements

   Bodyweight exercises can be broken down into several categories, which we will later use to create a variable program.

Push:

• Push-up
• Planche
• Dips
• Handstand Push-up
• Muscle-up (push and pull)

Pull:

• Pull-up
• Back Lever
• Front Lever
• Bodyweight row
• Muscle-up (push and pull)

Core:

• L-Sit / V-Sit
• Manna (advanced)
• Hanging Leg Raises
• Bridges

Legs:

• Squats
• Pistols (One-legged squat)
• Jumps (for vertical or horizontal distance)
• Jumping Rope

   All of these movements can be broken down further into many difficulty levels, which I cannot go over well here.  All of the information on how to progress within each exercise is available free on the internet with a little looking. A few good places to start:
www.beastskills.com
www.drillsandskills.com

   There are also several fantastic books on the subject, which you should be able to find at the library. My favorites are:
Convict Conditioning by Paul Wade (primarily for beginners)
Building the Gymnastic Body by Christopher Sommer (more advanced, and very practical)
Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low (500+ solid pages of information. A slow but awesome read.)

Programming

   Bodyweight programming is based on the same overload/recovery cycle as any other strength regime. The main difference is how we achieve this overload over time.  Rather than adding weight like a barbell user, to gain ground with bodyweight exercises you have to carefully control the progression difficulty, number of reps, and number of sets.  The key is to work at a progression where you can perform 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps while feeling like you are 1-2 reps away from failure.  As you continue with that progression level over the weeks, you can add sets and reps to your routine until you are capable of performing 5x8-10 reps of the exercise without failing. At that point, you can continue on to the next level progression of the exercise.

   For static holds (like L-sits), a similar scheme is used, but based off of your maximum hold time. For example, if you can hold a good L-sit for 10 seconds maximum, then to train you could hold sets of 5 seconds, with rests of 30-60 seconds in between, until you have reached a target volume of time (say, 60 seconds or 12 sets).  Once this has become easy, you can re-test your maximum and adjust the time accordingly (ex. If your new max is 20s, hold 10s to add up to 90s, or 9 sets).

   To build a full-body routine, a good rule of thumb is the 3-5 system: workout 3-5 days a week, using 3-5 sets of 3-5 exercises.  For a full-body routine, ever day should incorporate at least 1 pushing exercise, 1 pulling exercise, 1 leg exercise, and some skill work.  As an example:

M/W/F 3-5 sets of:

Back Lever Hold
Weighted Ring Dips
Pull-ups
L-Sit
Pistols

   When it comes to exercise selection, there are several ways to go about it.  One way is like the example above, which is to choose a single set of exercises that you want to improve on and focus entirely on those for an entire training cycle (typically a month or two).  This will lead to great improvements in the selected exercises, but you will need to choose them carefully so that you do not neglect any part of the body.

   Another good option is to change out some exercises during different training days.  So, with the above program it would be possible to swap out the Back Lever Holds with Front Levers, and the L-Sits with Planche progressions, every other training day.  This will lead to slower progress in each of the skill areas that gets swapped out, but it will also make it easier to create a comprehensive program.  It should be noted that a few exercises should hold over for the entire training cycle.  These should correspond with your ultimate goal, and if this is general strength then Pull-ups and Dips area  good, balanced place to start.

[tuyop]

Awesome, added to the OP.

[tuyop]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down

Oh man, Rippetoe takes a big crap all over everything that isn't barbell strength training.

It must be said that not everybody is interested in Training. For many, Exercise is good enough. They just want to burn some calories, get a little conditioning work, and have better abs. This is fine, for those people. But the second you want more – when you decide that there will now be a goal to accomplish with all this gym time – you've graduated to Training.
[snip]
Now that you're all grown up, which exercises will you use to get there? Considering our previous analysis, you'll need to choose movements that have the capacity to produce the desired adaptation over the long timeframe that profound, transformative adaptation requires. If you're a runner, you'll run; a swimmer, you'll swim.
[snip]
Likewise, bodyweight-only exercises like sit-ups, push-ups, burpees, air squats, one-legged squats, handstand push-ups, bodyweight dips, exercises done on rings, and kettlebell exercises – any exercise whose loading variable is the number of reps or the length of the set, and which doesn't have a 1RM – can't drive a strength improvement.

This is because after about 10 reps, and depending on your bodyweight, they're not limited by your force production ability – they simply become endurance exercises. Their repetitive nature means they're inherently sub-maximal in terms of force production. They can't make you stronger unless you're very weak, and they can't continue to make you stronger for more than a couple of weeks even if you are.

Obviously biased as hell, but I always love his articles.

[Kriegsspiel]

Hah, I almost skipped it just because it is on t-nation, but it was a solid read.  I like that he's always been about keeping the beginners honest.  Let's get real: a LOT of the internet gurus lifting programs and zany methods are NOT applicable to most PEOPLE WHO STRENGTH TRAIN, not to mention people that don't exercise at all. 

[tuyop]

Hah, I almost skipped it just because it is on t-nation, but it was a solid read.  I like that he's always been about keeping the beginners honest.  Let's get real: a LOT of the internet gurus lifting programs and zany methods are NOT applicable to most PEOPLE WHO STRENGTH TRAIN, not to mention people that don't exercise at all.

T-Nation has some good stuff sometimes. I remember an article by Dave Tate talking about how he went from squatting like 800 pounds and eating 10 000 calories a day to being... well:



and it was just hilarious. He used to wake up, waddle into his ridiculous Yukon, into which he could barely fit, take his kids to school, wheeze his way into the 7/11, promptly consume six 650-calorie honey buns (you know the ones) and then waddle back home, struggling not to suffer a cardiac event the whole time, so that he could drink some milk with bacon grease in it or something absurd. POWERLIFTING.

[Kriegsspiel]

Hell yea, I can't think of anything Dave Tate has written that wasn't gold.  Not that his accomplishments prop up t-nation or anything, but he does seem to have a lot of articles there.  I haven't really kept up with powerlifting recently, is he sponsored by Biotest or something?  I've seen him pimp Drive and shit elsewhere, which doesn't seem incongruent with him owning EliteFTS, but I dunno/duncare.

[tuyop]

Hell yea, I can't think of anything Dave Tate has written that wasn't gold.  Not that his accomplishments prop up t-nation or anything, but he does seem to have a lot of articles there.  I haven't really kept up with powerlifting recently, is he sponsored by Biotest or something?  I've seen him pimp Drive and shit elsewhere, which doesn't seem incongruent with him owning EliteFTS, but I dunno/duncare.

Yeah I really don't follow that stuff very well. Last I heard, Rippetoe was still friendly with Crossfit and was their strength training guru, now he hates crossfit? I don't get it, and really don't care at all!

I do love the 5/3/1 though. On Thursday I deadlifted 375x8, and I weigh 178 pounds. I love deadlifts.

[Donovan]

Yeah I really don't follow that stuff very well. Last I heard, Rippetoe was still friendly with Crossfit and was their strength training guru, now he hates crossfit? I don't get it, and really don't care at all!

I've heard of this as well. Some political crap with Greg Glassman I think?

Anyway, I love Rippetoe.  Starting Strength and Practical Programming were probably the most important books I've read on the subject.  However, he is opinionated as hell (like his love and obsession with the GOMAD diet).  While I respect his opinions, I feel like he ignores the entire field of gymnastics entirely when he says that NO long term progress can be made with non-barbell exercises.  Elite level gymnasts have absurdly high levels of strength despite training primarily with their own bodyweight.

That being said, I will miss the barbell this coming summer.  However, the fact that I cannot yet do a good, slow press handstand or a full back lever show me that there is still plenty of room for improvement that I can still fill with simple bodyweight exercises.

Tuyop, I'm curious about your opinion of Crossfit.  When I first started lifting, I discovered it and thought it was the most amazing thing in the world.  However, now that I have a lot more experience and reading under my belt, I've come to realize that I did not make nearly as large of progress during my time doing Crossfit on any front as I have simply working heavy lifts and doing something completely different (say, riding a bike around) to retain cardio conditioning.  I've seen a quote from Rippetoe (back when he liked Crossfit) that said he thought it was great primarily because it got the idea of squats/deadlifts/the like back into the routines of masses of people who otherwise would have ignored them.  I think I've come to agree with this, and see that most people who start with Crossfit probably move on to more programmable options once they have hit a stall and do some of their own research, rather than blindly following the programmed WOD.

[Kriegsspiel]

Tuyop, I'm curious about your opinion of Crossfit.

I'm not Tuyop, but I will grant you the magical gift of MY opinion too!

TLDR Crossfit is a better alternative to beginners figuring everything out on their own, and is great for people who just want 'to workout,' but specific goals are reached more efficiently with specific programs.

When I first started lifting, I discovered it and thought it was the most amazing thing in the world. 

I've seen a quote from Rippetoe (back when he liked Crossfit) that said he thought it was great primarily because it got the idea of squats/deadlifts/the like back into the routines of masses of people who otherwise would have ignored them.

I like this sentiment, and pretty much agree with Rippetoe also.  I remember a little over a decade ago, which was before Starting Strength was even published, the basic lifts (with the exception of the bench) were definitely NOT popular.  For those of us just getting into lifting back around the millenium, the most common advice was the typical bodybuilding stuff.  Cable crossovers, leg press, whatever.  For someone now, I think a lot of people just recommend they do Crossfit, which at least lets them know that deadlifts EXIST. 

However, now that I have a lot more experience and reading under my belt, I've come to realize that I did not make nearly as large of progress during my time doing Crossfit on any front as I have simply working heavy lifts and doing something completely different (say, riding a bike around) to retain cardio conditioning.    I think I've come to agree with this, and see that most people who start with Crossfit probably move on to more programmable options once they have hit a stall and do some of their own research, rather than blindly following the programmed WOD.

How are you defining progress?  I you define your goals specifically, "doing Crossfit" is almost always NOT the best way to reach them.  I am talking about the orthodox Crossfit program of not having a program, picking exercises and reps out of a hat.  Hell, it looks like the best way to win Crossfit's OWN COMPETITION is to specifically train for it.

As for the people (the vast majority?) who just want to workout 'to workout,' who like feeling like they just burned off some fat, who don't really care about squatting 500 lbs (but it would be cool if they could), Crossfit has established a "system" that they can just plug into and go.  For people who start out exercising with Crossfit, they can't 'avoid' pullups, squats, deadlifts, and pressing (to an extent) like they might if left to their own devices.

[Kriegsspiel]

I do love the 5/3/1 though. On Thursday I deadlifted 375x8, and I weigh 178 pounds. I love deadlifts.

Deadlifting and squatting are the bane of my existence :(  My pressing is not awful though, and it's actually been steadily improving despite cutting.  I just finished out my 5th cycle, here are my top sets on bench:

270 x5
275 x7
280 x6
285 x5
285 x6

[tuyop]

Dude, 285x6 is a fucking legit bench, good for you. I think on bench press days I pursue a strict diet of weak sauce or something: 225x5 is my best so far.

I was/am(?) an avid crossfitter from years ago. I love it, the attitude, the strict application of form, the way that it let me push myself to total physical and mental oblivion, it's great. I even gave myself rhabdomyolysis and spent a week in the hospital and almost died! In university (2006-10) I would rock 3-6 CF workouts a week, in the military I kept that up and switched to Crossfit Milford's programming, because they're pretty much the best I've encountered, and they've broken away from the CF mainsite bullshit pretty thoroughly. At my peak I was doing 12 workouts a week, alternating CF Endurance style WODs in the morning with strength and conditioning WODs in the afternoon/evening. Shit was my life, and my friends and I would often kill ourselves with three man workouts and Fight Gone Bad and stuff.

I personally think that Crossfit is perfect for figuring out your goals and weaknesses and learning form. If I had to coach someone remotely, I would just tell them to drop $300 at their local CF gym, learn the lifts, and then come back for some programming if they were still interested. Otherwise it's so difficult to remotely teach someone the discipline and mental fortitude that it takes to honestly pursue strength training without just giving them tendinitis and then having them abandon it because of their "bum" knees/hips/shoulders.

But, I never got really strong on Crossfit, and I also never got really jacked either. I see people in videos who look like swole brothers doing crossfit and I don't know what they're eating, but over the years of more or less strict paleo, I never got there! I'm much stronger and more muscular from just doing some endurance sports and strict, well-programmed powerlifting while watching my diet than I ever was doing stuff like 180lb snatches, 600 pullups and 1000 air squats a week depending on WODs.

I guess my takeaway is that Crossfit is pretty great for beginners, for getting people in the right headspace and teaching them the right form,  It's even great for advanced... fitnessers, and a 2-minute Fran is impressive no matter who you are! But it's not a panacea.

[Kriegsspiel]

Dude, 285x6 is a fucking legit bench, good for you. I think on bench press days I pursue a strict diet of weak sauce or something: 225x5 is my best so far.

LOL, great phrase.

I was/am(?) an avid crossfitter from years ago. I love it, the attitude, the strict application of form, the way that it let me push myself to total physical and mental oblivion, it's great.

From what I can tell, the attitude and mentality is Crossfit's most CONSISTENT export.  Pretty much every gym seems to have the same blisters-are-cool, let's get dirty, if you don't lift weights you are a sissy law of the land.  The form thing.... having good form isn't something crossfitters are well known for. :)  But of course, that's all dependant on how good of a teacher the owner of that gym is, and obviously crossfiters don't have a monopoly on bad form (they ARE the only ones who will encourage someone to keep repping for time, even if that person clearly 'doesn't get it').

I even gave myself rhabdomyolysis and spent a week in the hospital and almost died! In university (2006-10) I would rock 3-6 CF workouts a week, in the military I kept that up and switched to Crossfit Milford's programming, because they're pretty much the best I've encountered, and they've broken away from the CF mainsite bullshit pretty thoroughly. At my peak I was doing 12 workouts a week, alternating CF Endurance style WODs in the morning with strength and conditioning WODs in the afternoon/evening. Shit was my life, and my friends and I would often kill ourselves with three man workouts and Fight Gone Bad and stuff.

Yea, I did all of my crossfitting type stuff in the military.  The thing I used to think about is, at what point do you just stop calling what you're doing "Crossfit" and just say you are doing a strength and conditioning program?  It would depend on how the person identifies himself, which is the conclusion I eventually reached.  But a lot of confusion comes about when people recommend Crossfit (tm) to people for whatever reason, when they're ACTUALLY talking about the program that someone at a Crossfit Affiliate came up with that, which might be a periodized, block training, thought out multi-week plan.  The antithesis of Crossfit.

I personally think that Crossfit is perfect for figuring out your goals and weaknesses and learning form. If I had to coach someone remotely, I would just tell them to drop $300 at their local CF gym, learn the lifts, and then come back for some programming if they were still interested. Otherwise it's so difficult to remotely teach someone the discipline and mental fortitude that it takes to honestly pursue strength training without just giving them tendinitis and then having them abandon it because of their "bum" knees/hips/shoulders.

Eh, maybe.  There's two sides to that card.  Maybe I'm just behind the times, but I don't think the Crossfit franchising system can prepare all of their affiliate owners to be top notch coaches.  I'm fairly confident this is recognized within the Crossfit community, but I could be wrong...

The other side is that yea, having someone that knows ANYTHING about proper form, whether they're a grade-A teacher or not, could be more beneficial for people who either can't learn proper form on their own, from taping themselves and learning cues, and/or for those who don't care to, since they'll probably get yelled at for bad form at a Crossfit gym (does this happen?).

But, I never got really strong on Crossfit, and I also never got really jacked either. I see people in videos who look like swole brothers doing crossfit and I don't know what they're eating, but over the years of more or less strict paleo, I never got there! I'm much stronger and more muscular from just doing some endurance sports and strict, well-programmed powerlifting while watching my diet than I ever was doing stuff like 180lb snatches, 600 pullups and 1000 air squats a week depending on WODs.

Yea I see what you're saying.  Well, I don't think ANYONE would know many people who got really strong doing Crossfit.  First, I just don't think there ARE that many, and second, there is a distinction betweeen getting strong BY DOING Crossfit, and people that are strong, and DO Crossfit.  That strength usually comes from doing planned progression/periodization, since that's the most efficient way. 


That brings up another point that I may or may not just be making up, but Crossfit really seems to be a blessing from the gods for women.  A, it just gets them to lift heavy weights in the first place, since they usually just... don't.  & B (see what I did there? ;) ), women have lower neural efficiencies than men do, which lets (forces?) them to work at a higher % of their 1rm.  Again, look at the arbitrary "prescribed weights" for the Crossfit tests.  A lot of them are only something like a 30% difference, using the most obvious example of 95/135 for barbell stuff.  Like, let's take cleans.  A woman's weight is 95 lbs, and the man's is 135 for same number of reps.  That weight, most likely, is a MUCH higher intensity for the woman than the man.  So really, B could have been C also, women are doing more work at high %s, and they're also doing more reps at those %s than the men are.

I guess my takeaway is that Crossfit is pretty great for beginners, for getting people in the right headspace and teaching them the right form,  It's even great for advanced... fitnessers, and a 2-minute Fran is impressive no matter who you are! But it's not a panacea.

Word.

[tuyop]

Yeah you get a lot of inconsistency between CF gyms and I should have talked about that a bit more. It's very possible that your local CF gym could just be totally retarded and only stay afloat from being a good business.

Now, my girlfriend LOVES crossfit. She follows the CF Milford programming that I also enjoy. I don't get it, but it just leaves her seeing great results (like, she has abs and beautiful arms and shoulders from this, why didn't that happen to me?!) and getting nice and tired and happy. We did a Westside program together for awhile and she just didn't dig it.

Personally I find that the CF Attitude (TM) is very attractive in females and gives them a huge advantage over their peers in many professions. Just doing something despite that thing making you a little uncomfortable can be very profitable.

[Kriegsspiel]

Now, my girlfriend LOVES crossfit. She follows the CF Milford programming that I also enjoy. I don't get it, but it just leaves her seeing great results (like, she has abs and beautiful arms and shoulders from this, why didn't that happen to me?!) and getting nice and tired and happy. We did a Westside program together for awhile and she just didn't dig it.

Personally I find that the CF Attitude (TM) is very attractive in females and gives them a huge advantage over their peers in many professions. Just doing something despite that thing making you a little uncomfortable can be very profitable.

Yea, I think that is a very common occurence.  Maybe a huge part of the Crossfit success is that it gives women the "go ahead" to like lifting weights.  The culture is much more accepting.  Women hitting heavy singles in squat suits out of a monolift with fat bald dudes will just never be common. 

[Bakari]

Good Golly!  It seems that just about everyone in this thread is a powerlifting crossfitting bodybuilding military monster animal!!
Compared to all my family and friends and customers and even most of the Coast Guard Reserve members I work out with, I am pretty fit and strong... but "only" 225 x 5 benchs, 375 x 8 deadlifts, 6 crossfit workouts a week??!!?

I'm just an ordinary guy.  I happen to work as a hauler/mover, so sometimes I have to carry furniture or appliances up a few flights of stairs.  I bike to my job at a bike shop once a week, 15 miles away.  Once every few years I run the Bay to Breakers race (12k / 7.5miles).  That's not really enough by itself, so I try to lift regularly, but in practice I go in and out of phases where I'm consistent for a few months, and then do nothing for half a year.

I'm currently in a "consistently lifting and running" phase, because B2B is coming up, and I am planning to run it in my stripper outfit, while carrying a boombox (B2B is both a serious competitive footrace, and also a crazy costumed fun run.  That's why I love living in the SF Bay Area).  So, the lifting, so I look the part, and the running, so I can actually make it!

Me, I'm kind'a psyched, because I hit 3 new PRs today: 200 bench, 140 clean and press (well, maybe just a little 'jerk'), and pull-up with +70
Nothing to boast about on a powerlifting or CF board, but not bad for a 5'6", 145lb guy who is not in anyway an athlete.
My long term, somewhat hypothetical goals include a 10 minute mile and half, and a single one-armed pull-up.

But mostly, I don't think of fitness as an amount of weight one can lift or speed you can run.
To quote my own blog on the subject:

Getting "in-shape" isn't about one's shape (or at least it shouldn't be). It shouldn't be about appearance or even what your doctor says you should do. It is about quality of life. Fitness can't be measured just in terms of mile times and weight lifting totals, nor in terms of fat percentage or aerobic capacity. All of those things are related, all of them are factors, but it comes down to a question of: what can you do?
Not everyone needs to be an athlete. Fitness is a quality of life issue. A person should be able to carry a big bag of groceries in each hand and walk home from the store. You should be able to sprint two blocks for the bus when you see it pulling up to your stop. To carry a baby around all day. To walk up 17 flights of stairs when the elevator is out. Open a jar that's stuck on really tight, move the furniture around, climb a fence. Join in on a random game of pick-up soccer with your friends at the park. Fitness is being able to land on your feet if you fall off a shaky ladder, or the agility to dodge out of the way when you're crossing the street and a drunk driver runs the red light. Fitness can mean the difference between escape/fighting back and being a victim. Fitness can mean the difference between saving lives in an emergency, or being one of the people who needs saving.
As those examples demonstrate, fitness itself needs to be broken down into just as many separate categories as the term "health" to be meaningful:

-Strength (of ALL of the major and minor muscle groups, including stabilizers)
-Aerobic capacity
-Endurance
-Flexibility
-Agility, Coordination and Balance

Being fit means having ALL of them. Having a lot of one does not imply having the others. Which means it is very possible to have a power-lifter, ultra-marathoner, or sprinter who isn't really "fit" in the general sense of the word

That's taken from something larger I wrote on health in general, which is my contribution to the megathread:
http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2013/04/be-healthy-my-friend.html
and its follow up
http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2013/04/be-healthy-part-2-sub-section-fat.html


I've been reading this thread since the beginning, the timing has been excellent for me.  Between this thread, and MMM's post about (mostly) reaching his goals, its been very motivational to me.
Thanks to Tuyop for starting it, and for everyone else who contributed - most of all for the punch in the face reminder that just because everyone I know eats weak sauce, that alone doesn't necessarily mean I am "strong", and making me push myself just that much harder (did I mention, 3 personal bests today? yeah, I know I did! :) :P ;) )

[CNM]

I'd like to see information about exercise and pregnancy - specifically weight training.

Stuff on the internet is all over the map regarding this . . . some say weight training is fine, some say the valsalva maneuver kills babies (despite the fact that you use it every time you poop or blow your nose).  Some sources indicate that nothing more strenuous than walking should be done by pregnant women.

It doesn't make sense to me that a woman who has been regularly strength training prior to having a baby would need to drop all exercises the moment she learns of her pregnancy.  It also doesn't make sense to me that you would be able to keep going full force for the whole nine months.  There needs to be a happy medium, but there seems to be surprisingly little research about this.

I was pregnant last year and I continued with my kettlebell routine with minimal modifications until I was 20 weeks along.  No one, including my doctor, told me to stop. In fact, the recommendation was just the opposite.  The only thing that I was cautioned against was trying some new form of exercise that I was unfamiliar with prior to pregnancy. 

I had some complications (completely unrelated to kettlebell training) that forced me to stop for about 8 weeks.  After that, I did very light weights and more body weight training in addition to walking and pregnancy yoga.  The truth of the matter is that once you start getting big, you get fatigued very quickly and your range of motion is more limited.  You also can't twist or lay on your back as it is uncomfortable and, with most women, your joints loosen up so you need to be more careful in general than you were before.

If you want more info, I used the pregnancy kettlebell guidelines in the book Kettlebell Mommy, which you can find on Amazon.

[Kriegsspiel]

Good Golly!  It seems that just about everyone in this thread is a powerlifting crossfitting bodybuilding military monster animal!!
Compared to all my family and friends and customers and even most of the Coast Guard Reserve members I work out with, I am pretty fit and strong... but "only" 225 x 5 benchs, 375 x 8 deadlifts, 6 crossfit workouts a week??!!?

Hah, yea I just said the same kind of thing in the thread that other person started.  It's easy to forget, when you are comparing yourself to serious strength dudes and powerlifters, that almost every human on the planet doesn't lift weights.

Me, I'm kind'a psyched, because I hit 3 new PRs today: 200 bench, 140 clean and press (well, maybe just a little 'jerk'), and pull-up with +70
Nothing to boast about on a powerlifting or CF board, but not bad for a 5'6", 145lb guy who is not in anyway an athlete.
My long term, somewhat hypothetical goals include a 10 minute mile and half, and a single one-armed pull-up.

Very good sir.

[tuyop]

Hey does anybody here use fitocracy?

Thinking about making a Mustachian group on there or something. I love the pretty graphs.

I'm just an ordinary guy.  I happen to work as a hauler/mover, so sometimes I have to carry furniture or appliances up a few flights of stairs.  I bike to my job at a bike shop once a week, 15 miles away.  Once every few years I run the Bay to Breakers race (12k / 7.5miles).  That's not really enough by itself, so I try to lift regularly, but in practice I go in and out of phases where I'm consistent for a few months, and then do nothing for half a year.

I've been reading this thread since the beginning, the timing has been excellent for me.  Between this thread, and MMM's post about (mostly) reaching his goals, its been very motivational to me.
Thanks to Tuyop for starting it, and for everyone else who contributed - most of all for the punch in the face reminder that just because everyone I know eats weak sauce, that alone doesn't necessarily mean I am "strong", and making me push myself just that much harder (did I mention, 3 personal bests today? yeah, I know I did! :) :P ;) )

Well thanks! But yeah, your goals are between you and your god. I just like sharing the why of what I do, because a lot of careful thought, pain, and research has brought me here.

[Donovan]

Hey does anybody here use fitocracy?

Thinking about making a Mustachian group on there or something. I love the pretty graphs.

I have before, but I stopped because I didn't like that it only tracked 1RM on exercises when I am significantly more interested in the 3 and 5 rep range on a daily basis.  It was also a PITA to input Crossfit workouts when I was doing that :P  I've mostly used a paper log and a spreadsheet since then.

However, I was also the only person that I knew using it.  I have a feeling I would be more interested in the app if I was in a group that actually made the gamification and social aspects worth while.

[tuyop]

Hey does anybody here use fitocracy?

Thinking about making a Mustachian group on there or something. I love the pretty graphs.

I have before, but I stopped because I didn't like that it only tracked 1RM on exercises when I am significantly more interested in the 3 and 5 rep range on a daily basis.  It was also a PITA to input Crossfit workouts when I was doing that :P  I've mostly used a paper log and a spreadsheet since then.

However, I was also the only person that I knew using it.  I have a feeling I would be more interested in the app if I was in a group that actually made the gamification and social aspects worth while.

It sounds like it's changed a bit since then. It does a pretty good job comparing PRs based on weight and reps now, so like, a 270x9 squat is worth 190 points, while a 285x5 squat is worth 175.

I think it still sucks for crossfit, though, I know I stopped bothering to try to enter times for circuits and stuff and just deal with those in other ways.

[GuitarStv]

There is a Mr. Money Moustache fitocracy group already.  We're running a biking challenge at the moment.  There's a thread about it in the Throw Down the Gauntlet section.

[Donovan]

I didn't mean comparing the rep maxes point wise, I meant in the little chart area.  It tries its best if you sort by "max for the workout" and pay close attention to the width of the bars, but I would like a sorting feature like I have built for myself in my journal that would show me JUST 3's or 5's next to each other.

And I will probably join the MMM group to track my bike mileage starting this summer, when I suddenly am only using my bike and commuting 30mins each way.

[Crash87]

Hey does anybody here use fitocracy?

Me: I'm jshake87 on fitocracy. I'm honestly not sure why I use it, but I do.

[tuyop]

Hey does anybody here use fitocracy?

Me: I'm jshake87 on fitocracy. I'm honestly not sure why I use it, but I do.

Men will die for points.

[jba302]

Me, I'm kind'a psyched, because I hit 3 new PRs today: 200 bench, 140 clean and press (well, maybe just a little 'jerk'), and pull-up with +70
Nothing to boast about on a powerlifting or CF board, but not bad for a 5'6", 145lb guy who is not in anyway an athlete.
My long term, somewhat hypothetical goals include a 10 minute mile and half, and a single one-armed pull-up.

A 1.5x BW bench is nothing to sneeze at. It took me a long ass time to hit 285 @ 190. Powerlifting lives and breathes by body-limb ratios. Well, and steroids.

[tuyop]

And butter.

[smithy]

Hi All,

Heard about this thread from the "4-hour-body" discussion in "share your badassity", thought I'd say hello.

A brief history:
I did the slow-carb-diet from the 4-hour-body book which inspired me to join my local gym. I wanted to make use of the elliptical machine in the gym for extra exercise (I play football (soccer) and wanted less impact on my kness when exercising). But it's was quite boring for me on the elliptical, so I started doing random fixed weights machines and really liked them.

This inspired me to learn more and I eventually made the transition to the free-weight room doing a 3 day full-body split:
http://www.fullfitness.net/routines/beginner-program

I then progressed to a 4-day split:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/7-intermediate-4-day-split-workout.html

I take PhD V-Max pump before weight training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38742/1/PhD-Nutrition---V-Max-Pump-800g.html
and I take PhD Synergy Iso7 after training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38255/1/PhD-Nutrition---Synergy-Iso7-2kg.html

As for diet, I just try and eat healthy and not eat sweets/snacks between meals. Coming from a (s)low-carb-diet background, I find it very easy to not eat white carbs, so I generally use mixed vegetables (batch cooked from forzen in 10 mins) to bulk up my meals.

I may give up / reduce the PhD V-Max pump (as a new mustachian), it does give me a "buzz" prior to workout but it's not cheap. The Synergy Iso7 I will keep taking as:
1) I have been using it for ages and it works for me.
2) it can be an emergency meal / snack.
3) it tastes great.

Please feel free to comment on my program / supplements etc, all advice greatly appreciated (even complainypants advice).

[Kriegsspiel]

You are getting ripped off by that supplement company.

[tuyop]

Hi All,

Heard about this thread from the "4-hour-body" discussion in "share your badassity", thought I'd say hello.

A brief history:
I did the slow-carb-diet from the 4-hour-body book which inspired me to join my local gym. I wanted to make use of the elliptical machine in the gym for extra exercise (I play football (soccer) and wanted less impact on my kness when exercising). But it's was quite boring for me on the elliptical, so I started doing random fixed weights machines and really liked them.

This inspired me to learn more and I eventually made the transition to the free-weight room doing a 3 day full-body split:
http://www.fullfitness.net/routines/beginner-program

I then progressed to a 4-day split:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/7-intermediate-4-day-split-workout.html

I take PhD V-Max pump before weight training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38742/1/PhD-Nutrition---V-Max-Pump-800g.html
and I take PhD Synergy Iso7 after training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38255/1/PhD-Nutrition---Synergy-Iso7-2kg.html

As for diet, I just try and eat healthy and not eat sweets/snacks between meals. Coming from a (s)low-carb-diet background, I find it very easy to not eat white carbs, so I generally use mixed vegetables (batch cooked from forzen in 10 mins) to bulk up my meals.

I may give up / reduce the PhD V-Max pump (as a new mustachian), it does give me a "buzz" prior to workout but it's not cheap. The Synergy Iso7 I will keep taking as:
1) I have been using it for ages and it works for me.
2) it can be an emergency meal / snack.
3) it tastes great.

Please feel free to comment on my program / supplements etc, all advice greatly appreciated (even complainypants advice).

Oh man, oh man, we can talk supplements.

Right now I take a bunch of whey concentrate from Costco and BCAAs (10g PWO).

For pre workout 3-4 times per week I take a vile-tasting homebrew mix of the following tapes:

5g creatine monohydrate
6g beta alanine
1g L-Tyrosine
1g phenylalanine
1g choline bitartate
2 tbsp walmart fruit punch mix that smells like a thrift store in powder form but tastes like fruit punch when you add water. (Edit: I'm pretty sure this was 76 cents for a kilogram)

I've also experimented with 25mg of DMAA, but it didn't mix well with some other meds I was on. I may try it again. And 20mg vinpocetine, which was pretty sick for focus and mood but I stopped taking it for some reason. I have a faint irrational fear of nootropics.

It is also my opinion that this is straight-up the most mustachian way to use supplements. The BCAAs, creatine, BA, L-Tyrosine and juice mix can be bought by the pound in straight-up powdered form from Smartpowders and Canadianprotein.com for less than $10. I got a kilogram of choline on sale for $7.50 awhile ago as well!

Also this mix tastes more or less disgusting depending on how much water and juice mix you use. Raw powdered BCAAs also taste like burnt flowers or something and are basically, inexplicably horrible. Personally, I follow the line of thinking of my boy CHUCK DIESEL himself:

"You really don't want to buy this product if you buying pre-workout products based on taste.  If you want to get the best out of your workouts and not just a $22 caffeine buzz, get you some JP8x, and if you don't like the taste, mix it with 1/2 cup a juice and go wreck the gym.  Taste is the last thing that's important to formulating an effective product.  To make it taste pretty you need artificial sweeteners and flavors AND/OR you need to leave out effective doses of herbs.  We didn't do either!

JP8x take it back to 1997 when you took products because they worked.  Not these days where companies are using flavors like juicy watermelon bubble gum as selling point!  When it comes to pumps, energy, endurance, training intensity AND strength/power gains….its JP8x or nothing.  It’s time to GET DIESEL OR DIE TRYIN’."



Compare this mix (aka Kruster's mix for brothers) to the V-Max Pump (I love these names): In a 20g serving you have all this stuff, in order of quantity:

PhD V-Max Pump and Plasma NO-Activation System (Citrulline Malate, Arginine AKG, Micronised Creatine Monohydrate, Micronised L-Glutamine, Beta-Alanine, Tri-Methyl Glycine, Leucine (BCAA), Arginine HCL, Taurine, Grapeseed Extract, Pine Bark Extract), Caffeine, Natural Colour: Circumin, Sweetener: Sucralose, Sodium Bicarbonate.

Distributed among 10.5g of proteins, the rest is basically just sugar. You could get more specific than this because surely there's some carbs in creatine and BA, but why?

Now keep in mind that this whole "system" is a proprietary mix which contains effective supplements that only make up a minority portion of that 20g serving. You've probably got suboptimal doses (<5g) of CM, arginine and creatine, some glutamine thrown in there because nobody really knows if it's bullshit or not, TMG is new to me but it sounds pretty rad if you take like .5g of it, a bit of BCAAs, and some bullshit extracts that don't do anything. Then probably like 200mg of caffeine, some sugar, and some baking soda. For this you pay 35 pounds?


Also, I think your program needs more barbell and fewer exercises. I also have a raging, irrational hatred for exercise machines of all types. I want to vandalize and urinate on them whenever I see a skinny dude trying to grow his bat wings or whatever on the cable rack.

Edit: You might appreciate http://stronglifts.com/, they have a pretty good-looking 5x5 program, or the Starting Strength wiki for Mark Rippetoe's program. Mark Rippetoe is the fucking man and I think everyone should do Starting Strength. YMMV.

Tons of edits again: Yeah I did squats last night and had a big bike ride this morning, with a headwind, uphill, carrying 40lbs, fasted. I'm kind of confused and that's why my post is poorly formatted and strange.

[smithy]

You are getting ripped off by that supplement company.

Hi Kriegsspiel,

You think I'm wasting my time with both supplements (or just one)?
I started taking the synergy iso7 when I started weight training as it got good reviews as an "all rounder".

I've still got 2 tubs of these supplements so I was planning to finish these and then review the situation.
Would you recommend not taking any kind of these supplements?

Many thanks.

[smithy]

Hi All,

Heard about this thread from the "4-hour-body" discussion in "share your badassity", thought I'd say hello.

A brief history:
I did the slow-carb-diet from the 4-hour-body book which inspired me to join my local gym. I wanted to make use of the elliptical machine in the gym for extra exercise (I play football (soccer) and wanted less impact on my kness when exercising). But it's was quite boring for me on the elliptical, so I started doing random fixed weights machines and really liked them.

This inspired me to learn more and I eventually made the transition to the free-weight room doing a 3 day full-body split:
http://www.fullfitness.net/routines/beginner-program

I then progressed to a 4-day split:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/7-intermediate-4-day-split-workout.html

I take PhD V-Max pump before weight training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38742/1/PhD-Nutrition---V-Max-Pump-800g.html
and I take PhD Synergy Iso7 after training:
http://www.phd-fitness.co.uk/store/p/38255/1/PhD-Nutrition---Synergy-Iso7-2kg.html

As for diet, I just try and eat healthy and not eat sweets/snacks between meals. Coming from a (s)low-carb-diet background, I find it very easy to not eat white carbs, so I generally use mixed vegetables (batch cooked from forzen in 10 mins) to bulk up my meals.

I may give up / reduce the PhD V-Max pump (as a new mustachian), it does give me a "buzz" prior to workout but it's not cheap. The Synergy Iso7 I will keep taking as:
1) I have been using it for ages and it works for me.
2) it can be an emergency meal / snack.
3) it tastes great.

Please feel free to comment on my program / supplements etc, all advice greatly appreciated (even complainypants advice).

Oh man, oh man, we can talk supplements.

Right now I take a bunch of whey concentrate from Costco and BCAAs (10g PWO).

For pre workout 3-4 times per week I take a vile-tasting homebrew mix of the following tapes:

5g creatine monohydrate
6g beta alanine
1g L-Tyrosine
1g phenylalanine
1g choline bitartate
2 tbsp walmart fruit punch mix that smells like a thrift store in powder form but tastes like fruit punch when you add water.

I've also experimented with 25mg of DMAA, but it didn't mix well with some other meds I was on. I may try it again. And 20mg vinpocetine, which was pretty sick for focus and mood but I stopped taking it for some reason. I have a faint irrational fear of nootropics.

It is also my opinion that this is straight-up the most mustachian way to use supplements. The BCAAs, creatine, BA, L-Tyrosine and juice mix can be bought by the pound in straight-up powdered form from Smartpowders and Canadianprotein.com for less than $10. I got a kilogram of choline on sale for $7.50 awhile ago as well!

Compare this mix (aka Kruster's mix for brothers) to the V-Max Pump (I love these names): In a 20g serving you have all this stuff, in order of quantity:

PhD V-Max Pump and Plasma NO-Activation System (Citrulline Malate, Arginine AKG, Micronised Creatine Monohydrate, Micronised L-Glutamine, Beta-Alanine, Tri-Methyl Glycine, Leucine (BCAA), Arginine HCL, Taurine, Grapeseed Extract, Pine Bark Extract), Caffeine, Natural Colour: Circumin, Sweetener: Sucralose, Sodium Bicarbonate.

Distributed among 10.5g of proteins, the rest is basically just sugar. You could get more specific than this because surely there's some carbs in creatine and BA, but why?

Now keep in mind that this whole "system" is a proprietary mix which contains effective supplements that only make up a minority portion of that 20g serving. You've probably got suboptimal doses (<5g) of CM, arginine and creatine, some glutamine thrown in there because nobody really knows if it's bullshit or not, TMG is new to me but it sounds pretty rad if you take like .5g of it, a bit of BCAAs, and some bullshit extracts that don't do anything. Then probably like 200mg of caffeine, some sugar, and some baking soda. For this you pay 35 pounds?

Also this mix tastes more or less disgusting depending on how much water and juice mix you use. Raw powdered BCAAs also taste like burnt flowers or something and are basically, inexplicably horrible. Personally, I follow the line of thinking of my boy CHUCK DIESEL himself:

"You really don't want to buy this product if you buying pre-workout products based on taste.  If you want to get the best out of your workouts and not just a $22 caffeine buzz, get you some JP8x, and if you don't like the taste, mix it with 1/2 cup a juice and go wreck the gym.  Taste is the last thing that's important to formulating an effective product.  To make it taste pretty you need artificial sweeteners and flavors AND/OR you need to leave out effective doses of herbs.  We didn't do either!

JP8x take it back to 1997 when you took products because they worked.  Not these days where companies are using flavors like juicy watermelon bubble gum as selling point!  When it comes to pumps, energy, endurance, training intensity AND strength/power gains….its JP8x or nothing.  It’s time to GET DIESEL OR DIE TRYIN’."


Also, I think your program needs more barbell and fewer exercises. I also have a raging, irrational hatred for exercise machines of all types. I want to vandalize and urinate on them whenever I see a skinny dude trying to grow his bat wings or whatever on the cable rack.

Hi tuyop,

Thanks for the "tough love". I am now hanging my head in shame at buying anti-MMM products that are for wusses :(
Time for me to man-up!

Cheers.

[tuyop]

Hi tuyop,

Thanks for the "tough love". I am now hanging my head in shame at buying anti-MMM products that are for wusses :(
Time for me to man-up!

Cheers.

Aw man, I'm not even trying to be critical, since I think it's kind of silly to spend any money on supplements, let alone the amount of time I spent studying and researching and comparing to shave 3 cents/serving off my esoteric mix of strange substances of unknown efficacy and provenance. I mean, you can get all this stuff from regular food, I just find it fun to play around with.

And like, you're so far ahead of the curve when it comes to fitness, because you actually go to a gym and do stuff. Think of me like a dude playing Skyrim pounding away at copper daggers for 18 hours so that I can get a bit of an edge on my strength skill or whatever, if you just want to go yell at some dragons and knock over village people, that's cool too and at least you're having fun with the game!

[Kriegsspiel]

Hi tuyop,

Thanks for the "tough love". I am now hanging my head in shame at buying anti-MMM products that are for wusses :(
Time for me to man-up!

Cheers.

Aw man, I'm not even trying to be critical, since I think it's kind of silly to spend any money on supplements, let alone the amount of time I spent studying and researching and comparing to shave 3 cents/serving off my esoteric mix of strange substances of unknown efficacy and provenance. I mean, you can get all this stuff from regular food, I just find it fun to play around with.

And like, you're so far ahead of the curve when it comes to fitness, because you actually go to a gym and do stuff. Think of me like a dude playing Skyrim pounding away at copper daggers for 18 hours so that I can get a bit of an edge on my strength skill or whatever, if you just want to go yell at some dragons and knock over village people, that's cool too and at least you're having fun with the game!

IRON DAGGERS!

[GuitarStv]

Oh man, oh man, we can talk supplements.

Right now I take a bunch of whey concentrate from Costco and BCAAs (10g PWO).

For pre workout 3-4 times per week I take a vile-tasting homebrew mix of the following tapes:

5g creatine monohydrate
6g beta alanine
1g L-Tyrosine
1g phenylalanine
1g choline bitartate
2 tbsp walmart fruit punch mix that smells like a thrift store in powder form but tastes like fruit punch when you add water. (Edit: I'm pretty sure this was 76 cents for a kilogram)

I've also experimented with 25mg of DMAA, but it didn't mix well with some other meds I was on. I may try it again. And 20mg vinpocetine, which was pretty sick for focus and mood but I stopped taking it for some reason. I have a faint irrational fear of nootropics.

It is also my opinion that this is straight-up the most mustachian way to use supplements. The BCAAs, creatine, BA, L-Tyrosine and juice mix can be bought by the pound in straight-up powdered form from Smartpowders and Canadianprotein.com for less than $10. I got a kilogram of choline on sale for $7.50 awhile ago as well!

In my experience, supplementation and the benefits of various supplements are way overblown.

You can get big and strong without ever taking a supplement.  You can get lean and ripped without ever taking a supplement.  You can train hard, and recover quickly without ever taking a supplement.  You do not need a supplement pre-workout.  You do not need a supplement post-workout.

Protein powder makes sense . . . as a way to get protein that you may not be eating enough of, sure.  It's an easy way to get a lot of a macro nutrient that you need - check.  There have been a number of studies that show the safety and benefits of supplementing with creatine monohydrate for doing weight lifting (and as a general supplement if you're vegetarian/vegan) - also check.

I think that many people get swept up in marketing claims for the other stuff though.  A lot of supplements have dangerous side effects (DMAA as an example), most of them have little to no data on long term use, many of the claimed benefits are pretty sketchy anyways, and ALL OF THEM cost money.  Doesn't seem worth the risk from where I'm sitting.

Tuyop, you clearly have a different viewpoint.  Do you think that you would be unable to continue to do what you do without supplementing?

[tuyop]

Tuyop, you clearly have a different viewpoint.  Do you think that you would be unable to continue to do what you do without supplementing?

Nah, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. If there was no L-tyrosine in the world, my life would continue without worrying about it. I'm pretty sure we agree, I'm just playing around with a preworkout. I spent $85 on it in September and still have tons left, so vOv.

I could see a good 5-10% increase in my <5RMs after a couple of weeks of creatine and similar improvements in sprinting and high-rep work on beta alanine. (could just be a coincidence and I happened to break through a plateau that week) The rest is all completely anecdotal and uncontrolled and impossible to test. I find that I have good days at the gym more often than not now (while using my own mix), and if anything my mood while working out is higher, but that may just be because I really enjoy it and I'm very pumped about my program.

The "benefits" that I notice, if they exist, are really just blown away by other things as well. Sickness, lack of sleep, lack of concentration, changes in diet that I don't even really notice, bizarre "off" days. I mean, those things have been the difference between a 245x5 squat day and a 270x5. If someone marketed a supplement and said that it would spontaneously increase my working weight on the squat by 25 pounds immediately (or 10%), I wouldn't even consider it, it's just absurd. _{unless it tasted like a decomposing tire recycling plant}

As for the risks, my lifestyle and hobbies are way too dangerous to consider the provenance or safety of grams and milligrams of consumed substances as being an impediment to experimentation, personally. I'm more concerned with the amount of parabens and lead in my soaps and cleaners than where my choline came from, and the cleaner thing is not something that I lose sleep over. The toxins I know are more scary than the toxins that might be, you know?

I don't even really consider whey a supplement, either, it's really more like a separate, affordable food group that contains mostly protein. Also, BCAAs are straight-up magic. I've had weeks where I run out of BCAAs and actually did have to scale down because the DOMS is that much worse.

One way that I think it makes sense, and believe it has made a difference, is as a sort of insurance policy. I may get all the phenylalanine and amino acids and micronutrients that I need if I maintain a nice, nutritionally dense, varied diet. But sometimes, for whatever reason, I have a couple of weeks with crappy nutrition. I believe that supplementing through those periods is a way to either continue performing on the same level, or keep from losing gains. It's also an efficient way to get a lot of some nutrient if you want to see how it effects you. For instance, I supplement about 2500mg of niacin (vitamin B3) a day for some mental health issues that I have. I could potentially eat that much niacin in food, but that's like 1.25kg of anchovies per day! Shit is expensive.