Author Topic: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident  (Read 5341 times)

PeteD01

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2025, 06:51:32 PM »
You got a crush on Elon and I get that, but elaborating it in so many words is annoying.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2025, 12:56:27 AM »
You got a crush on Elon and I get that, but elaborating it in so many words is annoying.
You're a hypocrite.  Here's a list of your posts that are longer than mine, where you copy entire paragraphs.  Also, quote where I claim to "got[sic] a crush on Elon".  You can't read people's minds, let alone read and select relevant information from articles you quote.  You're a hypocrite for calling anyone else's posts too long, other than your own.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/musk-takeover/msg3336248/#msg3336248
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/musk-takeover/msg3336144/#msg3336144
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/trump-2-0/msg3335323/#msg3335323
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/what-are-you-reading-right-now/msg3335309/#msg3335309
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/trump-2-0/msg3334800/#msg3334800

Metalcat

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2025, 04:10:21 AM »

I disagree this is "a thread about him being an asshole".  If you mean the overall thread, the topic is money making people happy or not.  I posted about that topic before Elon Musk had been mentioned.  And when I posted a link about Musk admitting he has autism, I followed it up by returning to the topic of money and happiness.  Most of the posts in this overall thread are not "about him being an asshole".  You're wrong about that.  You can see posts where people are still trying to discuss happiness, billionaires donating to charity, and other things besides "him being an asshole".  The overall topic is about money and happiness, which is the context in which Elon was originally brought up.

On the topic of money and happiness, two posters claimed that Musk wasn't happy.  They provided no evidence, so I posted a link showing that Musk himself says his happiness depends on business and family.  Look at the first post in this conversation - that is what I posted about.  I was not, as you claim, replying to others about his behavior - I was continuing the topic of money and happiness.  If you think I was responding to Musk's behavior, how do you explain the first sentence and link of my first post in this conversation?

I have replied to a couple posters that Musk has admitted he has autism on Saturday Night Live.  And my first post in this conversation mentions how often Musk laughs, which is relevant to his happiness, but not to "him being an asshole" or not.  Someone laughing more or less doesn't determine if they're an asshole.  My mention of autism at the start of this conversation was also about Musk laughing.

If your focus is Musk's behavior, why did you ignore the one time I mentioned "Musk's behavior"?
"Peeking in r/autism, those in the Autism forum believe Musk having autism doesn't excuse his behavior."

The overall thread isn't about "him being an asshole", nor are my posts in this conversation about that.  This conversation started with me posting about Musk's happiness with a link, where others simply made claims without evidence.  Someone else asked about Musk's autism, so I replied to them, but again kept discussing Musk's happiness.  The start of this conversation, if you go back and look, is not about "him being an asshole".  You're wrong about that.  When I point to specific things I said, which you're ignoring, that doesn't seem to change your view of the conversation.

If your goal is to have a conversation about "him being an asshole", wouldn't that be a topic for another thread?  People here were trying to discuss money and happiness, and this conversation doesn't really help keep it on topic.

I give up. We're taking past each other and I clearly cannot illustrate the points I'm trying to make to you effectively.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2025, 10:23:33 AM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

Fru-Gal

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2025, 10:25:37 AM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

I 100% appreciated that observation and your sources. Thank you.

Metalcat

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2025, 03:13:50 PM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

TBF this is also exactly the shit that I was referring to when I talked about him behaving like a fucking asshole with a lack of compassion...

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2025, 10:18:30 PM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

TBF this is also exactly the shit that I was referring to when I talked about him behaving like a fucking asshole with a lack of compassion...

You never referred to Musk's support for the AfD in your replies.  My preference is for people to cite sources when they claim Musk behaves badly, but I'm also aware virtually nobody is going to do that.  Multiple people are ranting, speculating, and giving opinions without sources -  I don't see room to change anyone's views, or correct any factual misstatements.

Since autism is part of your job, if it comes up again in a discussion, I might tag you for your experience.

Metalcat

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2025, 05:16:51 AM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

TBF this is also exactly the shit that I was referring to when I talked about him behaving like a fucking asshole with a lack of compassion...

You never referred to Musk's support for the AfD in your replies.  My preference is for people to cite sources when they claim Musk behaves badly, but I'm also aware virtually nobody is going to do that.  Multiple people are ranting, speculating, and giving opinions without sources -  I don't see room to change anyone's views, or correct any factual misstatements.

Since autism is part of your job, if it comes up again in a discussion, I might tag you for your experience.

It's abundantly clear to me that you and I process information differently. That's not me saying that the way you process information is wrong, just different. I'm neurodivergent, so it's pretty common that I handle info differently than others.

I personally think it's extremely self-evident that saying/doing Nazi shit makes someone an asshole. I wouldn't feel the need to specify. I also don't remember details well once an idea is formed. I have a ridiculously parsimonious processing system. It makes me an incredibly efficient thinker of ideas, but I would be a terrible lawyer or engineer.

But I've also been reading about Musk and the PayPal Mafia for years, so my sources on "he acts like an asshole" are pretty much: every book ever written about him.

But if you want to know specific sources: The Founders and Character Limit are two extremely well written and very detailed books that can give a ton of insight into Musk's behaviour. The Contrarian and Zero to One (about and by Thiel respectively) also give deep context to Musk's experiences and behaviours.

I would be shocked if Musk wasn't autistic, but I don't think that's particularly explanatory of a lot of his behaviour. I would be extremely shocked if he didn't have a personality disorder, which would be much, much more predictive of the kind of asshole behaviours he displays.

In particular, the way his first wife describes their relationship, which began when he was quite young, gives a lot of insight into much of his dehumanizing patterns being fundamental to his personality, and not a product of his unusual position of power.

Is that enough sources for my impression of Musk??

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2025, 04:18:18 PM »
It is more disturbing, to me, that he supports Germany's AfD.  They are a far right party often viewed as neo-Nazi.

I viewed this as the most significant line in my post, but nobody else did.  Nobody asked for the evidence (*), which shows Elon Musk supports a neo-Nazi party.  It suggests he has neo-Nazi sentiments, which used to be a harsh criticism.  It also provides context for Musk's "awkward gesture" (according to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League).  Based on Musk's support for neo-Nazis, a more accurate interpretation is that Musk made a Nazi salute.  I guess pointing out that someone supports neo-Nazis is ignored these days, but it used to be a meaningful criticism.


(*)
"Tens of thousands of Germans have rallied against the far-right ahead of next month's legislative elections, as US tech billionaire Elon Musk again endorsed the far-right Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-26/elon-musk-supports-afd-party-again-/104860812

"The Anti-Defamation League defended Musk and argued that the gesture carried no significant meaning, but condemned the Nazi-themed jokes he made in the backlash of the incident."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk_gesture_controversy

TBF this is also exactly the shit that I was referring to when I talked about him behaving like a fucking asshole with a lack of compassion...

You never referred to Musk's support for the AfD in your replies.  My preference is for people to cite sources when they claim Musk behaves badly, but I'm also aware virtually nobody is going to do that.  Multiple people are ranting, speculating, and giving opinions without sources -  I don't see room to change anyone's views, or correct any factual misstatements.

Since autism is part of your job, if it comes up again in a discussion, I might tag you for your experience.

It's abundantly clear to me that you and I process information differently. That's not me saying that the way you process information is wrong, just different. I'm neurodivergent, so it's pretty common that I handle info differently than others.

I personally think it's extremely self-evident that saying/doing Nazi shit makes someone an asshole. I wouldn't feel the need to specify. I also don't remember details well once an idea is formed. I have a ridiculously parsimonious processing system. It makes me an incredibly efficient thinker of ideas, but I would be a terrible lawyer or engineer.

But I've also been reading about Musk and the PayPal Mafia for years, so my sources on "he acts like an asshole" are pretty much: every book ever written about him.

But if you want to know specific sources: The Founders and Character Limit are two extremely well written and very detailed books that can give a ton of insight into Musk's behaviour. The Contrarian and Zero to One (about and by Thiel respectively) also give deep context to Musk's experiences and behaviours.

I would be shocked if Musk wasn't autistic, but I don't think that's particularly explanatory of a lot of his behaviour. I would be extremely shocked if he didn't have a personality disorder, which would be much, much more predictive of the kind of asshole behaviours he displays.

In particular, the way his first wife describes their relationship, which began when he was quite young, gives a lot of insight into much of his dehumanizing patterns being fundamental to his personality, and not a product of his unusual position of power.

Is that enough sources for my impression of Musk??

Your source is "read these books"?  I don't plan to read books solely for "insight into Musk's behavior" - that's an unreasonable imposition on other posters.  If you say Musk is an asshole, the onus is on you to show incidents where Musk acted like an asshole.

Threads about events will often provide a link to the news story.  That's a source others can read quickly, and quote specific parts of the story to make their points.  People don't start threads where they tell others to read a book to discuss the topic (except the book recommendations thread).  Linking to a news story by a reputable news organization provides a way to discuss the facts of an event.  Without that, people are just sharing emotional impressions from various experiences.  There's a lot of bias baked into those impressions, which is why I was waiting for someone to post a specific claim backed by a news source.

The key attribute of Nazis wasn't them being assholes, it was being evil.  Much like how the Russian army has executed civilians repeatedly in Ukraine - that's evil, not them being jerks / rude / assholes.

Metalcat

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2025, 04:21:50 PM »
I give up. White flag.

As I said, I clearly cannot articulate in a way that is productive here.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 04:24:27 PM by Metalcat »

reeshau

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2025, 04:50:48 PM »
How dare you indulge in long-form media!  Wasting all that attention, when there clearly is a deficit in this world!

In fact, I've signed a Member Order calling for an immediate shutdown of the "What are you READING right now?" thread!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 04:53:25 PM by reeshau »

GuitarStv

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2025, 06:03:43 PM »
I thought reading more than 280 characters at a time was illegal these days.

GilesMM

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2025, 04:35:20 AM »
I thought reading more than 280 characters at a time was illegal these days.

Don't fall for the hype.  Americans buy (and read?) more books than ever (around a billion per year); more than movie ticket sales.

Metalcat

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2025, 05:17:49 AM »
I thought reading more than 280 characters at a time was illegal these days.

Don't fall for the hype.  Americans buy (and read?) more books than ever (around a billion per year); more than movie ticket sales.

Sure, but if booktok is any indication, it's largely women reading smut.

ETA: oh man, I was just making a joke, but apparently it's true

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/96139-riding-on-romance-and-romantasy-print-book-sales-edge-into-positive-territory.html
« Last Edit: February 07, 2025, 05:20:31 AM by Metalcat »

GilesMM

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2025, 05:42:57 AM »
I thought reading more than 280 characters at a time was illegal these days.

Don't fall for the hype.  Americans buy (and read?) more books than ever (around a billion per year); more than movie ticket sales.

Sure, but if booktok is any indication, it's largely women reading smut.

ETA: oh man, I was just making a joke, but apparently it's true

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/96139-riding-on-romance-and-romantasy-print-book-sales-edge-into-positive-territory.html


A graduate student friend of mine married a lady who churns out these potboilers out while he house husbands. They are rather wealthy.

Ron Scott

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Re: The fact that money doesn't make you happy has never been more evident
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2025, 03:14:49 PM »
According to studies, money does in fact make people more happy.  However it's not the only thing that does, and it begins to taper off as you make more.

These studies are based on self reporting. The latest study uses an app, which asks the participant at random times how they're feeling. You can see the problems with any conclusions based on this, especially at the centimillionaire level.

It is interesting how initial research findings on some subjects are believed long after subsequent research either contradicts or clarifies them. This seems especially true of the money—>happiness research, maybe because some people are relieved to believe that the wealthy may be rich but they’re not “happy”.

Having more and more money does lead to more happiness, which makes sense since it provides options and opportunities unavailable to those less well off.

Killing yourself to make more money and many related money-seeking behaviors do not make you happy while you’re doing it…obviously. And that can reduce your happiness with other aspects of life because of the effort and time it takes.


Here’s a loose description of the research: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnjennings/2024/02/12/money-buys-happiness-after-all/