So, I'm intrigued and a little confused, by your definition of what a strong Christian is. Based on the above, I'm trying to figure it out, because your language is excluding some people who would clearly think of themselves as Christian. Help me make a list please:
- has accepted Jesus wholeheartedly as their savior
- goes to church.... (How often?)
- are almost unrecognizable to their friends and family in what their old life was like and what they do now (so, presumably, started out in a life that wasn't very Christian? So do you have to start as a non-Christian and then have an awakening that makes you unrecognizable to your friends and family?)
- You no longer enjoy the things you used to like doing
Can you give me the rest of the sort of requirements for being a strong Christian? Do you have to only listen to music that sings about Christ? Can you dance? What about movies that have secular, non-religious themes? What things do you have to stop enjoying? What about sports? Alcohol? Can you read novels? Are there any worldly (read: non-Christ-focused) that you can do and enjoy? Can you enjoy a friendship or a family relationship with someone who is not a Christian or does not share your view of what a Christian is, and has expressly asked you not to try to convert them?
Please forgive me if these questions sound pointed, but I would truly like to understand whether it is possible in your view to enjoy these things when you are "in" this world but not "of" it, as you say.
For perfect transparency, there are varying views on pieces of this, and there are more hard line people in my congregation, but no this is not a congregation that eschews sports for example. I am going to share our senior pastors stance and where we differ a bit it on music and drinking. Our senior pastors sons play basketball and baseball at the high school, and now collegiate level and he regularly posts on Twitter about it, so as you can see it is not "technology evil". Where people are more hard line is on music and drinking, but again as my last post because I look and push for Scriptural proof and as my wife and I pointed out Jesus and others drank wine, Jesus made it, and no referenced to musical genres. So the difference is this. Pastor suggests, does not demand, but asks everyone to question themself, if they listen to anything musical outside of church music. He does not even endorse Christian radio. And he does not drink and suggests it as a model. But unlike other churches I have attended over time (several down when I lived in Nashville) there is no stigma attached to pressure you, just the fruit. So I listen to music of various types including popular music, and once in a while I will have a drink but I have always been a light drinker. My dad drank too much. I'd not say he was an alcoholic, but when he drank at a family party or whatever, he DRANK. To the point that I was fearful for my life many times as we drove home from grandma's because he still refused to turn the keys over to my mom. Then my first wife also had an alcoholic father and I started dating her right after high school and before legal drinking age and she would flip out if I even got near a drink, so I just never developed any desire for drinking for those reasons.
But again, I have asked our pastor about this, and gotten what I feel are great responses to his position on music and alcohol. There are passages in Titus, I believe (sorry I've been looking up so many passages this week for this thread, and I just don't have the energy to dig for these, but if you want I can find them), that talk about how God will hold you responsible, especially as a pastor, if you drive another believer to sin. As a leader he feels if a member of the congregation saw him having a beer or a glass of wine and then later became drunk (sins of alcohol in the Bible are related to drunkenness, not the consuming if alcohol) and/or an alcoholic because "I saw Pastor drinking" then he would be guilty of this act. Similarly his belief on music is that un-Christian sinful behavior is encouraged in secular and at times in contemporary Christian music and if he listens to it and someone else takes that as an OK to listen and heads down a sinful path because of his example, God holds him accountable. So in my position on these, I'm comfortable with that and understand the "line". I have been given the Scriptural justification so I hold myself and those I would say are showing the fruit or a "strong Christian" in their lives to not crossing it. If they get rip-roaring drunk and act like fools (look at all the examples in Genesis where fathers got drunk and their daughters used that to have sex with them) that is not a "strong Christian". I would counsel that person in love. My father has backed of on his drinking as I have become and adult and I've never seen him like he was when I was a kid, but if I did, he'd get an earful. So I no longer hang around with friends who just want to go to bars and are upset if I go an order a soda. That's not much of a change for me, as I never was a heavy drinker, but they pressure me to drink and ridicule me for not, I'm not friends with those people any more. When I go to work functions, I may have a single beer and nurse it all night. I am not going to cross the line and get drunk. I still listen to almost any kind of music, but I am uncomfortable and shy away from anything that has a lot of cursing or glorifies inappropriate behavior or treatment of people. In high school I was way into heavy metal, and I still listen to it now, but I listen to very different songs than I did then. Buckcherry's "Crazy Bitch" is not on my playlist, but I have some Hinder. I have Cee Lo Green's toned down "Forget You" instead of the original "F* You". My radio is now mainly on the contemporary Christian station most of the time because I'm not going to hear a lot of inappropriate crap. Again in high school and college I used to listen to Mancow Muller and Howard Stern. Zero interest in them now. I do avoid listening to anything that comes close to that "line" when I am in the company of someone who may be influenced by it. Music is the area I would have the most work on to improve on as I like a good beat. I would not go to a strip club or a bar with a wet t-shirt contest as that would dishonor my wife. I will not regularly spend time with a woman alone who is not my wife. In business I may need to meet a woman for lunch to a meeting, or work on a problem after hours (though that is almost never just me and someone else, so it stays away from this, as there is a group of co-workers). Again, this is because it honors God and shows respect to his expectations.
There is not a list. I do not condemn anyone for what they choose to do. I would simply admonish them, where appropriate, as Scripture says using the rules of church discipline which do not allow one on one confrontation. Again, the teaching behind this Scripture is sound in my mind. By having two or three discipline the offender it avoids the judgment and shows that the behavior is enough to have multiple people in agreement that it needs to change. I have NEVER had to go down this path at all, but that is what I would do for serious issues where someone was very clearly moving away from positive fruit.
So some of the other things you asked. Movies, I watch secular movies, but certainly no porn, X-rated and I then use the same assessment as the music or alcohol. If it makes me uncomfortable reading the description, then it's not something I participate in. We (wife and I) did not see or read "Fifty Shades of Grey", for example, but I still enjoy Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Hidden Figures etc. I would prefer Game of Thrones focused less on the gratuitous sex for example as the storyline does not really need it contrary to George R.R. Martin's insistence it does. I read novels all the time, but I prefer to read a lot of books on religion or other non-fiction like history more. I just finished Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead and have read Girl, Interrupted before that. I enjoy the Cara Black series of mysteries lately, love James Bond. We are also in the middle of Winston Churchill's 6 volume set on World War II after just finishing Page Smith's 8 volume history of the US, and are also reading a commentary on Romans, and before that Revelation. Read the No God But One book this summer and added it to my Top 5 books I've ever read for thoroughness and logic.
I have been friends with a Jewish man for over 15 years and he was best man at my wedding and we debate religion. Do I pray he may convert one day? Of course. But like anyone, that is between him and God. I just answer his questions and plant the seeds, and I realize that sounds calculating and underhanded since you probably picture me saying it like Gru from Despicable Me, but it is just neutral. If he asks a question about why I believe something, I answer and that's all the planting. If God compels him to learn more he will. If not, I'm good with that. Again, our Pastor has shared his evangelism with us. He has friends of 20-30 years that are not believers. He goes to things with them that are OK to him and excuses himself where he is not. They know why he does it. They respect him for it. At times this bears fruit. We just had a woman saved and then baptized this last month whose testimony was that she watched Pastor over twenty years as his kids went through the high school basketball program. His example drew her to Christ in the same way. A question every year or two eventually led to a new baby Christian. I think and have seen hard-core Bible thumping turn people off. Jesus did not get in people's faces and yell "Believe, you heathen!" He simply lived his life and when people wanted to know why he did what he did he told them. That's what a good Christian does. They look for opportunity. Many prayer requests in our weekly Sunday School/Bible study class as in regards to neighbors who got invited for dinner and asked questions that the answers would bear fruit. We have a couple in our class who was married a Jewish wife. It got to the point where she threatened to divorce him if he did not stop trying to covert her. He asked and received council from godly men, and two years later, Barb began questioning. She had seen Tony's honoring of her request after so many years of asking and God did a work on her heart and she wanted to know more. Her entire family is Jewish and her mother and sister's were furious when she converted. It was very hard for her and we'd hear the stories in class. It has been about two years since that happened and with no prodding, again simply being available to talk and answer, her mother and one of her sister's that were initially ready to disown her and that did not speak with her for months after she converted are now asking more and more questions and truly seeking.
With regards to how you teach each other "equipping the saints" as our mission says, men teach men, women teach women, or couples teach couples in discipleship. It's not a dating circle to bring in some vulnerable member of the opposite. The Christian model is not that our pastor is the only one teaching, (which was another thing I hated about the Catholic church), but rather than we all teach each other. More mature believers helping newer ones and then the newer ones. Each of us should always be learning and teaching all the time that we can. We steer clear as a congregation of anything that takes away from either learning about the Lord or worshiping him in our church. What that means is we do not follow the traditional church building model in Evangelical Christianity since the 60s of programs and things to "bring people in". God and the message grow the church, not man. That means you will not see drums and guitars with people appearing to be at a concert on Sunday than many churches feel they need to do to attract young people and families. We do not offer all kinds of programs like churches do trying to make them social clubs or places to come play. Yet, while churches in our area are shrinking we will be voting on a building campaign to take our capacity from about 500 people to eventually accommodate 1,750 in small phases of adding capacity for 300 at a time. We do not offer service "types". It's not contemporary one service or classical the other like many Protestant churches do, it's one service on Sunday. We preach through the Bible in an expository way, meaning one book at a time, every chapter every verse. It usually takes about a year lately to get through a book. Genesis took about a year and a half. We've been on Romans since February and we are in Chapter 3. As I've said in another post, I love it, because I learn so much about the Scriptures and it's not what @ J Boogie says about dogma just because. Our pastor tells other pastor's "our people would be happy with just a book and a box". That book obviously being the Bible and box for the pastor to speak from. And yet, while most Christians would say that is boring (and I have people when I told them we were moving to this church, said "oh, they're too old school. I like the new music etc. etc.") but it's the most fun I have had at church in my life and I've tried over 20 churches in my life before this one, so I've got some experience. We love the Lord and we love each other, all 500 members and the visitors we get each week. For all the boredom, we grow at about 10% a year. People come and hear the message and stay to learn more and it is so evident to me after being at this church for over five years now that the problem is not God, it's all the crap wrapped around him by churches and congregations who attend the seminars about how to be Joel Osteen and Jerry Falwell and all those other folks who only preach what people want to hear, because after all it's all about making people feel wonderful rather than preaching what God says. After five years we've covered some books of the Bible that are pretty negative by the world's standards and make you fell pretty inadequate and "bad" but yet people come and more come, so I see the result, and it is wonderful. We work with like minded churches around the world who eschew the trapping of shopping mall churches working to entertain people and the growth is there because Christians are hungry for good teaching. Sorry, for getting so excited about what God is doing in the world, but it is wonderful.
Church attendance is as often as you can get there. We have four "times" as we slice it. Sunday School , Morning Service, Evening Service and Wednesday Prayer Service. People are encouraged to attend at least three and it is not like a lot of churches when it's the same sermon, it is different for every service. Being divorced and remarried and with six kids we only able to currently attend two the Sunday School and Morning Service. That starts at 9-10 for Sunday School and Service is usually 10:15-11:45 depending on when pastor stops preaching. Again, not ritual, just a basic old school Christian service focused on worshiping God, so all we do is sing for about 30 minutes and then have a sermon for 45-60 where we learn a ton and keep improving ourselves. Keep in mind I could not stand the 60 minute or less Catholic mass, but 3 hours on Sunday is not a problem. This is why I told @J Boogie I think sometimes the problem is more the church than the faith. I've lived it. Finding a place where your soul is fed makes all the difference, not where you watch a professional speaker tell you all kinds of anecdotes while trying to relate one phrase of scripture to "God and Money" or "Our 6-Week Series on Faith" our "8 Week series on Women in the Bible". That piecemeal "study" is not fulfilling for most and our drop in church attendance shows that. It's not God that is the problem, it's how we do church these days.
So the last piece is clarifying the "unrecognizable". It is a summation of everything above where for most people in American culture life is around money, entertainment and making themselves feel great through experiences or things that give them pleasure for pleasure's sake. Being a Christian is about every day striving to be more like Christ which means more and more of your time and energy is spent on things of eternal value, i.e. helping people understand God's love for them. Do I have hope that answering these questions will have just one person who reads this stuff begin asking and possibly eventually find God? Certainly, but I simply enjoy helping and writing these posts has been wonderful, but not for the pleasure of me, but for what I will never know that God will do with it. I certainly appreciate the comments from people about being impressed with my Bible knowledge, but I cower from that praise as it's not about me, it's about God. I'm just sharing why I have the hope and joy within me because I'm certain of where I'm going and why I am here. As I've said before, my parents keep trying to get me to be Catholic again, and I just engage as they are interested with why I will not do that because of all the errors and distortions of the Catholic teaching. I would never have engaged in this in depth of a discussion before I was saved, so this is one "unrecognizable" piece in my own life and one that continues to confuse my family. I cannot express the contempt I have for the Catholic faith because of the damage they do to belief because of the shallow teaching they do and the distortions that insist are real. I get the Jesus is part of it, but it's almost not Christian because of the focus on Mary and other things that are totally idol worship. Sorry, off tangent. Many people who I have seen saved come from what even secular society would call "hard lives". Drugs, promiscuous sex, drunkenness as the only way to have a good weekend etc. Those things go away and they are unrecognizable to those who new them before. And then in all the other areas we talked about the behaviors shift from watching a movie and commenting "man she's hot, I'd do that!" to maybe not watching that movie at all and instead suggesting a nice drama or documentary, or your tastes just change totally because what you did before led you down sinful paths and you just have no desire for that. That's the change that is hard to explain. You are not just consciously avoiding things, which is certainly how everyone begins, but as you become a deeper and deeper Christian those things are not even appealing to you anymore and it's I guess subconscious and so people around you see such a profound change that it is startling.
So hopefully that gives you a solid picture of things and sorry there is not a checklist. It is just as our pastor says "winning more battles for Christ than you lose" that drives the fruit of a Christian. As I answered before, judging a "strong" Christian is not for me to determine. I'm just a saint trying to help other saints along and one of the things NOT on my checklist is saying the Bible is a bunch of stories like Aesop's fables. And if I see someone who says they are Christian doing something that steers people away from the truth of Scripture and Christlikeness, they are not acting as a "good Christian" in that moment and if I have the opportunity to point it out to them, I will do so in love so they can be made aware and determine how they will respond.