Author Topic: Terrible bosses  (Read 21020 times)

SisterX

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Terrible bosses
« on: February 27, 2014, 11:56:57 AM »
I've been dealing with some truly awful management issues at work, which I won't actually get into.  It's been frustrating me a LOT (I'm not patient with stupidity, in myself or others, and holding my tongue is not a strong suit either) but realized the other day that horrible managers can actually hold some mustachian lessons.

First, one person that I'm dealing with is the overly-ambitious type, who doesn't care who gets stepped on in her way to the top.  Lies, bullies, etc.  I guess the lesson I've taken away from watching her is simply to be happier with what I've already got, rather than constantly striving for what's next, or getting more.  I'm fine with ambition to an extent, but taken to this level it's more akin to greed, in that nothing will satisfy her, and I simply don't want to live my life that way.

The second person I'm dealing with, among so many other problems, has taken a job about as far away from her family and friends as she can get and still stay in the country.  The climate is completely unlike what's she's used to and she hates it here.  Hates the culture and the people (yes, she's told us all that we are backwards and, in her opinion, stupid), the weather, everything.  From what I can tell, she's changed careers quite a few times, lives a fairly lavish lifestyle (judging by wardrobe and ridiculous, brand-new luxury SUV), and got herself into a position where she HAD to take this job because she couldn't find anything else.  I think she's making everyone else miserable in part because she's so miserable.  So I'm realizing that that's part of the reason why I'd like my family to reach FI, even if we decide not to ER.  I don't want us to ever get into a position such that anyone has to take a job we hate.

Lastly, it's hitting home every single day that I want to be FI so that I never, ever have to work for people like these two ever again.  I'm keeping my job for a number of reasons, and trying to keep my head down and wait them out (no one expects them to last long, either because they'll move to another job, or they'll get forced out by people who can't stand working with them any longer), or at least wait out my reasons for staying at this job.  (Healthcare and, even bigger, free tuition for DH as he gets another degree, in case you're wondering.)

I figure I'm not the only one with awful bosses.  Let's hear 'em, mustachians.  What are your best terrible boss stories?  And did you come away with any lessons from them?  Did they inspire your quest for FI/ER?

soccerluvof4

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 04:16:29 PM »
I have been self employed the last 22 years plus BUT the last job I worked was a very large family owned business with a ton of siblings working there and everyone was in charge of something. The Father was awesome but each kid had a power struggle with the other and were talking over 1500 employees. Believe there were 11 kids working there as they Dad who was in his late 70's at the time had a farm before he hit it kinda big.  Anyhow everyday i had to hear how to do this or not listen to so and so BUT the icebreaker or the straw that broke the camels back! Well i was VP of Sales and the Son I reported to most often Hired a women that was his Customer for years 8 states away to be in sales. She got a brand new car and I was suppose to train her but she spent more time going to lunches with him and stuff.  Long and short of it the obvious, he was cheating and got in my face one day so I tossed my pager at his head and just missed and quit. Went off on my own. I had at least 70% of there business. But it was nonsense and I only stayed as long as I did because the old man was really a down to earth awesome guy.  I am sure there are Empoyees in my company that like or dislike me but they never know my personal business and I sleep at well knowing I do everything feasibe for them I can. Sometimes its not enough.  And like most people learn the older you get if you do things hoping people will appreciate you , you will live a life of disappoinment!

Sorry to hear you have to deal with all that stuff! Say what you have to once and then just focus on your own doings. It to will pass I am sure!

Nords

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 07:43:14 PM »
I'm keeping my job for a number of reasons, and trying to keep my head down and wait them out (no one expects them to last long, either because they'll move to another job, or they'll get forced out by people who can't stand working with them any longer), or at least wait out my reasons for staying at this job.  (Healthcare and, even bigger, free tuition for DH as he gets another degree, in case you're wondering.)
I figure I'm not the only one with awful bosses.  Let's hear 'em, mustachians.  What are your best terrible boss stories?  And did you come away with any lessons from them?  Did they inspire your quest for FI/ER?
This post is nearly seven years old, but I believe that it's still timeless:  http://scottberkun.com/essays/43-how-to-survive-a-bad-manager/

I've had several sociopaths & bullies for bosses, and one psychopath.  I outlasted them all because one or the other of us would transfer after a year or two.  In the Navy that's regarded as "normal".

My "worst-case" boss was a submarine CO.  I got the job of Weapons Officer on that sub because my predecessor began coughing up blood after just nine months of this CO's "mentoring".  I can't defend the CO's methods, but he had noted that the officer was a marginal performer so he amped up the pressure to make him perform or quit.  I did fine under the CO, in the sense that I was the only department head under his command to have never been issued a letter of instruction.  For whatever that's worth.

The story:  submarine Officers Of the Deck stand watch in three-section or four-section, and after they're relieved by the next OOD they report their relief to the CO.  It's a standard spiel:  "I've been relieved by LT Schmuckatelli as OOD with the boat on course ___ at depth ___, in operating area XXX proceeding to YYY to do <we don't discuss that>.  During the watch we accomplished the following..." and so forth.  When you knocked on your CO's stateroom door to report your relief, it was regarded as "not abnormal" for him to hold up a hand to stop your spiel.  He'd say "Hold this" and hand you a kicking pad.  Then the two of us would go to the passageway outside of his stateroom, where the OOD would hold up the kicking pad and the CO would assume a martial arts stance.  Then you'd report your relief as he delivered back kicks or side kicks on the kicking pad:  "Sir, I've -- OOF-- been relieved-- OOF-- by LT SchmuckOOFatelli..."

Our squadron commodore at the time was a member of USNA's boxing team.  I'm glad I never had to serve with him.

windawake

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 08:42:32 PM »
I had this boss who completely managed by his emotions. At the time I was 21 and fresh out of college. I was very dedicated and ended up taking on much more work than the other people in my position, some of whom had been there for years. The problem was that my boss would nit-pick things I did if he thought there was a slight possibility that my actions hurt someone's feelings.

For example, there were outstanding medical pumps (at $2,000 a pop) that were going to cost the company thousands of dollars if they were not recovered. These pumps were discussed every morning for a few weeks. I was never busy enough so I decided to deal with it. I was able to track down a few of the pumps and essentially saved the company $6,000 with just a few phone calls. I then sent out a matter-of-fact email with updates about what I'd found out. I was called into my boss's office and berated because by taking over this project. He said I made the people who were supposed to be dealing with it "feel bad." Ugh, in my mind if you neglect doing your job for weeks and we have to hear about it at daily meetings, you lose your license to feel bad if someone does it for you.

He also would call me in to his office for really erroneous things, like phrasing I used during a meeting that he didn't agree with, or other sorts of 'social' issues. I've always been a sensitive person and these things made me feel terrible. I thought I got along with the people I worked with, and then my boss would tell me that everyone thought I was unprofessional. I had to meet with his supervisor at one point with whom I worked closely, simply because he was getting down on me so much that I needed to know if I was actually doing a terrible job. She said as far as she could see I was doing well, and everyone knew I was very high performing, and that there were a few incidents here and there that everyone involved could have handled better and that it wasn't my fault, even though my supervisor said it was.

I'm so happy he's not my supervisor anymore! Also, not long before I left I got my first formal review (after working there for 15 months) and he marked me down very slightly for all the social issues he kept bringing up over and over, and marked me incredibly high for work load/performance. I think in his mind he meant well, but he never complimented me on anything and berated me so much that I just felt terrible. I was always trying to improve things and help others out with their workload, and while I was very young and definitely needed some direction, I always felt like I was being punished for not just keeping my head down and doing my own work.

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 07:03:33 AM »
All right I think I can take the taco here.

This guy... is best described in small doses.  Because that's how I learned all about what an incredibly messed up person he was.  I'll try to update here a few times, I can't possibly relay the whole story, but salient details should suffice to give you some idea.

I'll start with his morning ritual.

Now you have to understand this individual loved Grey Goose vodka.  And he drank it in a very particular way: a red Solo cup filled to the top line of the ridges with ice, then fill with vodka, then about a teaspoon of cola.

I know because I had to prepare this delightful libation for him several times, I simply called it The Cocktail.

This individual was also the long time friend of a most unscrupulous doctor who was quite, uh, flexible with his prescription pad, and this particular individual had so many health problems you could prescribe him anything and it would be plausible.

He would wake up in the morning and take a Vicodin.  Now most people swallow pills with a glass of water.  He would swallow the pill with The Cocktail.  That's right, pain killer with a vodka chaser.

He would then smoke a cigarette and wait 45 minutes.  Another Vicodin and cocktail.

He would wait 45 minutes again.  A third Vicodin and cocktail, a second cigarette, and he was ready to face the day.

He would roll into the office at 10:30 in the morning or later, fresh off of that routine.

It gets so much worse from here.  So much worse.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2014, 12:20:36 PM »

This post is nearly seven years old, but I believe that it's still timeless:  http://scottberkun.com/essays/43-how-to-survive-a-bad-manager/


Thanks for that link.  Everything on the list of bad managerial qualities fit one or both of the people I was talking about!  And, I am actively working toward a lateral move into a different department.  I would still be working under one of these managers, but the other (who, as my direct supervisor for the moment, has more power to make work miserable, and takes every opportunity to do so for me) would no longer have any authority over me.  Cross your fingers for me, by this summer I should hopefully be in a new position.

And thanks for the stories.  I knew there had to be more people with bad boss stories, and sometimes going over them can either make you laugh (that's been my strategy recently--since I can't do anything else, I can at least laugh at how anyone could be so incompetent) or at least be very cathartic.  Keep them coming!

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2014, 02:20:19 PM »
All right, continuing.  Same individual as before.  After his Vicodin and vodka, he'd roll in any old time.

His morning greeting would go like this.

"Archie."

My name is not Archie, incidentally.  Rather, he decided to nickname me Archie Bunker.  I didn't stay there terribly long, but the whole time I was Archie Bunker.

"You know, nobody likes you."

Every.  Day.

He would sit down and smoke, and inevitably at some point, he'd page you over the intercom.

And you'd go in there, and sit down.  The office would smell like old Marlboros.  Now old pipes, old cigars, these things can actually smell pretty good.  But never old cigarettes, at least in my experience.

And he would begin to berate you.  It's quite impossible to do his glorious nonsense rants justice in a brief text recap, so I'll just give you the very short version of some of the classics I got hit with.

- I was supposed to take the general ledger and work strictly from the general ledger, but I was also to disregard the general ledger.  I was working like a "close out guy".  I have no flipping idea what this means.
- If I were a billy goat, and I saw a nanny goat, I should approach the nanny goat and have kids, but not until I conquer other billy goats.  And vodka is good.
- I shouldn't be so nice to a dog ever again.
- The next time I do work I'm told to do, and I do it correctly, I'm fired, unless I start drinking whiskey.
- I shouldn't keep electronic records of anything.  It all needs to be paper.  But it also needs to be on the computer whenever possible.

On top of that, you have to understand, he had a deep smoker's voice, and he said these things in the most serious, intimidating way possible with such peculiar mannerisms.  It was mesmerizing, you knew he wasn't making sense, you knew he was wrong, you knew this was intended to be unpleasant, but it was a level of hilarity that transcends laughter.

Oh and the best one for last:  One time, he was going to be out of town for a week to get a very serious surgery (he had serious health problems, his substance abuse was either making it worse or the only thing still holding him together I have no idea which).

I worked with a gentleman named Bob at this company.  You have to know that.  We may talk about Bob later, he abused Bob so much.

He called me in for his usual spiel, and he said to me:

"Now Archie... I'm going in for a very serious surgery next week.  I know you know the business continuance plan, but there's one part you don't know.

"If I die in surgery, I want to you get the house key from downstairs and go in my garage and get my Ruger .45.  Then I want you to find Bob and kill that son of a bitch with my Ruger .45, and I want his ashes buried with me."

And that was pretty much it.  He clearly intended for it to be facetious, but it was highly disturbing.

There's so much more to say about this guy...

rocklebock

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2014, 04:39:26 PM »
Oh my god. More stories please, LalsConstant. It's putting my complaints about my boss (zero leadership skills, zero emotional intelligence) into healthier perspective.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 11:16:14 AM »
Oh my god. More stories please, LalsConstant. It's putting my complaints about my boss (zero leadership skills, zero emotional intelligence) into healthier perspective.

I agree!  Lalsconstant, you made my first laugh of Monday morning!

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 02:16:24 PM »
So, continuing.  This is the absolute worst employer I have ever had.

Now this next story is short and gross.  I wasn't there for it personally, so I'll tell in the third person.

Our bookkeeper was out of town for a week and a major client needed current statements for the bank, so everyone except the subject of our story was in the far office, physically as far from him as possible in the suite, working on this to get it out ASAP.

A terrible smell began to waft through the vents.  Eventually one of them resolved to go investigate when they saw my boss darken the doorway of the office they were all packed into.

"If ya'll weren't such lazy asses, ya'll could go home like I am.  Make sure that's done before you leave."

He said it in his gruffest, most pissed off tone and left for the day.  It was 11:30 AM.  He hadn't been there but an hour and a half or so.

Well everyone refocused for a moment, but the smell persisted, and one of them went to investigate.

He had crapped in his chair.  And it was still there.

This well goes deep my friends.  Absolute train wreck of a human being.

windawake

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 02:25:14 PM »
LalsConstant - that story is insane, why was he still employed there?

jba302

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2014, 02:36:36 PM »
I had a story, but it would be like showing off a pocket knife after someone drove a tank to the discussion. So I'm just going to enjoy this and realize that my incompetent or mildly bipolar stories have provided me no real lasting scars on my brain.

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 08:54:58 AM »
LalsConstant - that story is insane, why was he still employed there?

Oh we are just scratching the surface, this guy is like an onion of insane.

But to answer your question, it's his (failing) company.  Entrepeneurs cannot be fired.  He's still open for business, amazingly. 

I do not know how.  I've seen his books, he hemorrages money operating this place.  I may talk about some of his Anti Mustachianism later.

Like I said, I wasn't there for the chair poop incident.  They wrapped the chair in garbage bags and threw it into the dumpster.

Everyone pretended it never happened, but the fact is you don't live that down especially when you act in such a manner.  They weren't sure if he was just embarassed or having a bad day with his substance abuse or what.

They kept it it a secret from me for a whopping 4 months until I couldn't take the snickering any more and demanded to be let in on what was going on.

So the next chapter in this story is when he went on vacation.

This enterprising fellow is not alone in his insanity.  His second wife, who he was divorced from at the time, is every bit as much of a piece of work as he is.

She drifts in and out of his life seemingly at random, to hear him tell it.  And he's known to go on a bender when she exits. 

For a while she was working there with is, being paid $13.75 an hour to look at Facebook and answer the phone.  I am being literal.

Now answering the phone at this place is not a trivial task, it easily consumes 3 hours of time in 9 hour time span, but it's not enough to justify an employee just for that.  And most of the calls come in mid morning, so literally most of her day was Farmville.

Anyway she had just quit, and about a month later he decides it's vacation time.

Now remember I told you about his, ahem, physician friend?  Look it's not my place to judge how you should structure your family, but he was married and that's all I am saying about that.

Well apparently the two of them each hired an... escort for a week and went to Las Vegas and SoCal.

So for a week there, we had no receptionist, and I'm answering the phone so I can't get my work done in a timely manner.

And he apparently just up and left and didn't tell any of his business associates where he was going.

So for a week I'm constantly tempted to say "Oh he's in Napa Valley with a prostitute."

sleepyguy

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 10:10:06 AM »
My GF has an absolutely horrible boss about 3 jobs ago.  She was a sr. finance analyst.  The CFO would constantly ask her to "fudge" numbers on reports to meet quotas and meet targets.  When she said no and went to HR, they said they could do nothing as it was a "conversations" nothing in email.  This was a very LARGE worldwide company as well.  On top of that he was a micromanager phone her everyday at 645am to see what was on her "agenda" for he day.  She was only there for 8mths and quit.  When asked during interviews she says integrity and honesty was her strong suit (which it is) and that was the reason why she left company xyz.  Leaving that job was probably the best career move she made.

A couple years later an old co-worker from company xyz said they walked out the entire finance team, lulz.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 06:34:19 AM »
Wow, my bosses are bad at personnel (who they hire, no training, no reviews) and make the strangest capital investment decisions but nothing like these stories.

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2014, 02:26:25 PM »
I apologize in advance if I meander here and there, a writer I am not.  Note to self, become better at writing.

I'd forgotten about this thread, I got busy with other things.  But let's talk about this guy's personal finances.

When I was working at this place, I had just started to crawl out into the light.  I had paid off massive personal debt just before I left my two terrible years at Wal-Mart.

I had... nothing.  I mean it.  I had reached a personal net worth of $0.  That's important later, remember that.

Now I don't want you all to think there was nothing good about this job.  I learned a lot of stuff here (a lot of this was not to be this guy but there was a great deal else besides).

One of the things I learned was a schema for organizing clients:

Smart and rich
Smart and poor
Dumb and rich(?)
Dumb and poor

I might elaborate on the differences sometime, but for now it suffices to say this guy was "Dumb and rich(?)".  One of the characteristics of "dumb and rich" is they have material abundance but they don't really have wealth, not truly.

It's hard to describe how this situation arose concisely, but this is a man who allegedly had a $1 million stock portfolio (pretty sure this was a lie), six rental properties (these were quite real), his own business, etc. and brother he looked like it too.  All the toys, he had them.

I, with my relatively piddly savings (every dime I have wouldn't keep a typical government agency open for even one day), am in fact a richer and wealthier man than he will ever be.

Let that sink in.  I am trying so hard to not feel schaudenfraude myself.

Okay explain that, you say.  Because holy fuckballs, you are thinking, if I had SIX rental houses I'd be in the Grand Canyon reading novels and drinking iced tea next week.

The problem is though, you're projecting.  I intially thought man this guy is loaded because my thinking is, I would have all my personal crap together before I started landlording.

The issue is a lot of people don't think like that.  He had basically daisy chained this whole thing together.  I do believe he owned his own house, that much was solid.  I think.  But then he borrowed against that one to finance another, and so on...

I know the people who make loans ask you about ALL your oustanding debts but I'm pretty sure he circumvented that somehow, and I cannot think of a method that's conscionable and legal, but I don't know the details and have no proof of anything.

If his creditors were able to all "call" the debt instantly and somehow force him to liquidate what he had to pay what he owed, he couldn't do it. 

He'd be hundreds of thousands of dollars short. 

It's a weird paradox.  He lives like a millionaire, he just plays them all against the middle and kites payments and has it down to a science how often and how long to default on what account.  I'm pretty sure he's done something not quite kosher.

Now is it sustainable?  No, he will eventually be forced into bankruptcy court and I suspect whatever the truth is may come out. 

He owes serious money, the kind people sue you for, and he has something to take. I promise you all these creditors think they're going to be the ones to claim the leveraged assets.  I think once they figure out what's going on, they may have the parts of the puzzle they need to confirm if my suspicions are true.

And not to be grim but I'm pretty sure once that happens even if this whole thing is straight, he will kill himself.  He told me once, while he was drunk (and therefore honest), that if he had to live like I did he'd hang himself in his living room.  Jump right off a chair.

What I witnessed has long since been dealt with to the extent of my power, I just prefer to leave it at that.  I can sleep well at night, is all I'm saying.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 12:08:34 PM »
Ok, I've got a specific story to tell.  This one's relatively mild, but it sort of illustrates the "WTF?" stuff we have to deal with on a daily basis.
My coworker and I are the only two staffers in a satellite office.  Our supervisor  came up with a Google calendar that we have to keep our schedules on.  I mean, everything.  I work certain hours each day and my coworker works complimentary hours, to ensure that our office is open when it needs to be.  We still have to put on this calendar every. damn. day what our schedules are.  When I was pregnant, she at first asked me to put down every doctor's appointment, before back-tracking when she realized that it was against HR policy (after I confronted her) to demand that I tell her about my doc appointments.  So I had to put down that I was out of the office.  (Gee, wonder why!)
Every time we have a meeting at the main office, we have to put that down and what it's for.  So, my coworker comes in an hour later than I do.  She had to meet with someone at the main office, so she and I worked it out that she'd go straight there instead of wasting time coming to our office first.  Well, our supervisor either never checks the calendar, or she calls here when she knows we're gone to check and make sure that's what we're actually doing.
So my coworker goes to this meeting and our supervisor calls me 3 minutes after she's normally supposed to be here and demands to speak with her.  I said that she was at a meeting at the main office, and that it was on the calendar.  There was a pause and our supervisor asked, "_____, is she really at work today?"  ???  I reiterated that she was at the meeting, and she made a few vague comments to the effect that my coworker plays hooky from work regularly (NEVER!) and that I cover for her.  How this makes sense, we can't figure out because we have both vacation time and sick time, so if we really, really wanted to play hooky, we wouldn't need to risk our jobs to do so.  Also, if my coworker was really that flaky, why on earth would I risk my job to cover for her?
In the end, she yelled at my coworker for not being at that meeting (which the supervisor wasn't even attending, as it was confidential) exactly on the hour and then tried to bully her into saying the confidential information.  (Probably her real reason for calling.)  Awesome.
I can't tell if she's cunning, or if it's just dumb luck, but she does all of the crap only over the phone so we have no evidence of how badly she's treating us.  Upper management does know about some of the issues (and craziness) so we're getting a new supervisor this summer.  Can't happen fast enough.

jba302

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2014, 02:18:02 PM »
I believe Alaska is a one party consent state, meaning that you can record your conversations with her over the phone legally without her knowledge. How your HR would deal with that, though, I have no idea.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 10:52:42 AM »
I believe Alaska is a one party consent state, meaning that you can record your conversations with her over the phone legally without her knowledge. How your HR would deal with that, though, I have no idea.

I have considered that.  However, in the heat of the moment I'm too dumbstruck by how ridiculous and horrible she's being to do that.  Also, my iPod (the only recording-type device I've ever owned) broke and I haven't gotten it refurbished yet.

eil

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 02:12:12 PM »
LalsConstant: you can tell a story, that's really the only qualification you need in order to be a "writer." Seriously, I for one would like to hear more about this guy. You see the stereotypes of people like this in movies and never imagine that there are actually people like this.

I always believed "Office Space" was a gross over-caricaturization of a typical cubicle farm... until I went to work in one. Didn't come out with stories that can top these, though.

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2014, 05:56:20 PM »
The first boss I had after resented me because I had better qualifications than he did, and used to feed me misinformation to make me look bad to senior management (it worked).

The third was an alcoholic, and the only time to get any sense out of him was the hour before lunch.  If I just wanted him to sign off on something, the best time was the hour after lunch.

A later boss had me doing three jobs at the same time while doing almost nothing herself.  Every now and then she would have a week spent "working from home" (this was before internet working) which produced no actual work.

There were some awesome bosses in between and after.  But I was constantly astonished by how little most managers seemed to know about how the organisations they were paid to manage actually worked.

Zamboni

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2014, 06:48:34 PM »
I've had some gem bosses and some pretty terrible bosses, but never anyone who crapped in a desk chair and then left it for the underlings to discover.  Wow, just wow.

I will say that the most outrageous character I ever worked for also ran his own company just like the chair crapper.  The worst part about that is that you can't just wait them out knowing that you can stay in your job and eventually you'll have another boss anyway, which is a strategy that works for preserving one's own sanity with a lot of other terrible bosses who aren't really THE boss.

TreeTired

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2014, 09:56:03 PM »
I have had a few lousy bosses,  mostly the typical assholes you find in big bank middle management,  just general assholes trying to crawl their way up the ladder, taking credit for your work,  rewriting your memos, that sort of crap.  But the bad bosses really made me appreciate the great bosses that I had in my career,  the kind that left you alone and managed upwards, ie most of their work was designed to create an environment where I can do my job without interference from my boss' boss.  That is the only bright side of working for an asshole -   you don't take a good boss for granted. 

Anyway,   it is such a blessing now to not have to work for an asshole... or for anyone at all actually,  and to have the comfort and peace of mind that comes with financial security.  It is such a stress reducer!  Thanks for the reminder via this thread.

LalsConstant

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2014, 11:52:31 AM »
THanks everyone.

I've been debating what to talk about next.  There's so much with this guy.

I guess let's start with some of the reasons I actually don't hate him.

The family history of this man is complicated.  I only ever got it in bits and pieces, mostly when his son worked there (oh lord, his son...), but none of those pieces were good.

What I can tell is his parents were relatively high income people, but were extremely neglectful of him and his various sibilings.  I'm not sure how many he had, because it was a complicated situation with the divorces and whatnot, and I suspect his stepfather was a bigamist and the two families he had eventually combined in one household at one point when he was older.

They were for sure drug abusers.  They smoked like freight trains, drank whiskey like a fish drinks water, smoked pot (I am not inherently against pot because it's pot but they were giving it to 8 year olds, come on!), and there was heroin in the medicine cabinet.

So there's no telling what that was actually like.  They had a veneer of respectability but there were some issues there for sure.

I know at a certain point, we have to expect people to move on from being screwed up by their childhood.  All the same, this tempered my judgment of the man.

He married his first wife he had his two kids with.  His wife left him, and her children, because "he was an asshole".  Literally that's the reason.  The divorce was "Give me the liquid assets and the car, keep the children, keep the house, or I will take you to the cleaners and put the kids up for adoption."

I know being married to this man can only be some kind of fresh hell, but all the same, that's f#cked up.  And I heard from some pretty objective sources (people who called him out on any number of his faults) that this time the fault was with her not him.

Two people confided in me the first wife moved across the country and literally became a crack whore.  I don't know if that's true or not but I do believe he made a terrible mistake in marrying this woman.

He was much younger then however, I suspect he was a better person at the time.  I can believe he might have truly been innocent.

Now you combine that upbringing, with that woman's antics, and that's enough to screw anyone up.  Not an excuse, but again it tempers my judgment.

What I can't abide by is that he was a terrible father.  He did the same things to his kids his parents did to him.  So often it goes.

His children are train wrecks too, perhaps another day we'll go into them.

Now I'm pretty hard on myself sometimes that I don't do all the right things.  But I know I'm too hard on myself because I have the example of his son.

At one point his son, a true idiot of a man who literally had everything and threw it all away for some heroin.

I think that's when my boss went broke, trying to keep his son out of jail.  He was successful, getting a litany of charges reduced to a decade of probation, but he lost his shirt doing it.

On the one hand, the fatherly thing to do would have been to say "Son, you done screwed the pooch, and  you're a grown ass man who knows better.  You have to take what you have coming."

But the tricky thing is, I think on some level my boss knew, could not admit, but knew, that he'd failed as a father, and felt like his son's misbehavior was his fault.  Coming to the son's legal defense was his self assigned penance.

He would try, and I emphasize try, to treat his male employees like surrogate sons sometimes.  He was just bad at it.  Really bad.

I think his experiences with his own mother and his first wife and his second wife just left him with a complex about females.

His daughter didn't do anything spectacular, but her behavior wasn't really, uh, smart.  She went to college for 10 years for a 4 year degree.  She went through men like an allergy sufferer goes through pills and tissues.  Two children, no idea who either of their fathers were (four paternity tests for the second child all came back negative and they gave up).

To her immense credit, she had a job.  She was an elementary school teacher, for a time before that ended in flames.  She kept employed though, I will give her that.

She siphoned about 30 grand a year from him, 30 years old too.  He felt obliged to pay it.

His second wife, the true love of his life, now that's a story.  She was from Harlem, and she was a real piece of work.

I don't throw the word "bitch" around lightly, I think it's a very nasty adult word for truly exceptional individuals.  It's the right word this time.

They were married, divorced, together and separate many times.  She worked with us for a while too.

I always could tell he really wanted to make it work with her, but neither of them had any emotional maturity to figure out how.

Did I mention he was white and she was black and both their families hated this?

I wish I could say that was proof the guy wasn't a bigot, but... well another day.

Anyway the point is, I always felt a little bad for him.  I could see some part of him really did want to do right by these people.  He was just inept at it.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2014, 02:28:04 PM »
I just wanted to reiterate the above... LiasConstant, your posts are fantastic, please don't stop.

ncornilsen

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2014, 04:17:04 PM »
A former boss of mine was fired when, the DAY after a sexual harassment seminar, he placed the paycheck of a 20 year old female intern on his lap and told her to "come grab it. You can pick up your check while you're at it." 

my boss's boss assigned me a project to build some work stations for a few guys starting on Saturday, and told me not to go home until a project was complete. This was 8:00AM on Friday. I cancelled a date, spent all day working, never went to my desk. I bought materials with my credit card, and stayed at work until nearly midnight to get the project done.  I come in on the following Monday and asked if the workers needed anything else on their stations and to have the petty cash form signed. He said "Oh, we decided not to hire those guys. Didn't you get the email?" I checked later, it was sent at 9:00 AM. He walked by and asked if I was "making him money" at 10:30 AM. He also refused to pay me back nearly$250 for the materials I bought, until I spoke to HR about it.  I can say it was maleviolence, more just that he was a total air head.

Milspecstache

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2014, 08:38:46 PM »
I have nothing on any of you guys but one of my bosses did make this statement to a bunch of middle-managers, "The key to leadership is public humiliation."'

Love the stories!

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2014, 11:00:38 AM »
LalsConstant - now I just feel really, really sorry for that guy and his entire family.  What wasted lives.  :(

New story: A while ago we were given an ongoing project to do with several other departments.  We were told that, for our part, we could just work on it as we had time and not to rush because the full project will take years and we're really busy in my office.  Well, apparently last week the boss's boss decided that there was, in fact, a deadline and that we were behind.  So my boss (who works in an entirely different building most of the time) comes here all fired up most of the week to tell us how incredibly behind we are and how awful we are, blah blah blah.  Even had a private meeting with me which (since her office here doesn't have a door) my coworkers could hear every word of and which they later told me, "I can't believe you didn't just up and quit!"  (I didn't because I have an application in for a different department with the same company and I'm hanging onto the hope of that.)  Anyway, so she tells us we're behind on this project, that we were supposed to have it done months ago (apparently) and made us meet with her over the course of the week for roughly a full 8 hours (an hour here, an hour there) all to tell us how far behind we are and that she wants us to be working on this FULL TIME.  I don't know how she thought that having us meet with her every few hours was helping the workflow.
When we said we'd have it finished up by early Friday, she said there was no way we could (this from a woman who doesn't know how to do any of the stuff involved for this project, refuses to be trained so that she can understand it--that would be beneath her dignity--and had to call other people to verify 100% of what we told her) and told everyone else we'd have it done by late this week.  It felt sooooooooooo nice to email everyone last Friday morning and say, "We've finished."   Of course, I'm sure she'll be mad at us for finishing "early" because it will make her look bad that we directly contradicted what she told everyone else about how slowly we work.  We told her that the hardest parts of it were already finished earlier, and our ordinary work lightens up at this time of year anyway so we had more time to devote to this project.  No matter how often we say these things, though, she totally ignores everything and decides that we're, for some reason, lying to her.
The thing that kept me laughing all weekend, however, was this: we have lots of plants in our office.  On my coworkers desk she has several jade plants and a violet.  None of these were blooming or anywhere close to flowering, and yet, "I can't be near those plants.  I just can't.  My allergies!"  Cue overly-dramatic pinching of her nose and heavy breathing for about five minutes while the rest of us had to sit there watching her because we were technically in yet another meeting. 
She also complains about her office here every time she comes up because "It's so dusty in there!  I don't know how you can stand it.  Ugh.  Those janitors are terrible.  I don't think they ever clean in there."  There is no more dust in there than anywhere else in the office, but THAT'S the area which she can't stand to be in.  And of course she can't open the window to get fresh air because "that would just get my pollen allergies going again."  She claims to have or get a headache every time she comes up here, which is lovely because she doesn't come up here very often.  I can't imagine how slowly our work would get done if she was up here all the time because she LOVES to call us into her office, like errant children, to stand in front of her desk so she can lecture us on "professionalism" and things like that.

CU Tiger

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2014, 05:11:22 PM »
I had a bad boss once. Actually, I've had several, but this was the boss at my first professional job.

I was recently moved to the big city from Podunck, SC, my hometown. I had a job working for a large, family-owned business. The owner was in his mid to late 60s, and was pretty much a figurehead, while his son ran the business, successfully I would say.

The general manager was a pervert, who constantly, CONSTANTLY reached down to touch his "package" as he stood by your desk or talked to any female employees. I don't know if he was trying to direct our attention to his manhood, or just reassuring himself (Yep, I still have a penis!) but every woman in the place hated him.

But the big boss decided that since I was a young woman (early 20s) in the big city, far from home, that I would need a father figure and he was the man for the job. He would stop by and ask about my living situation, and how my car was, and if I was making friends. At first it all seemed sort of dorkily innocuous, but then things got a little disturbing. He would cut clippings out of newspapers and magazines about how young women could avoid being assaulted, or about how the AIDS virus was spread, and leave them on my blotter. My personal fave, and the one that caused me to ask him to cut it out was, "PROMISCUITY LEADS TO INCREASED RISK OF AIDS."
Because I wasn't promiscuous, but even if I was, it was none of his business. I asked him to quit, because it made me uncomfortable.

He actually said, "You are up here, far away from home, you need someone to look after you like your father would." My answer was that I HAD a father, and he was a fine man who had taught me everything I needed to know, and that this kind of thing was inappropriate at work. I even spoke to his son, the VP, and told him I wished his dad would lay off the clippings.

I only lasted 8 months at that job...

Wolf_Stache

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2014, 05:34:31 PM »
I don't have stories as bad as all of yours, but I did quit one job because my boss refused to let me take ANY PTO days, at all, and HR backed him up on it.

His reasons? Because this company combined PTO and sick days, so he said if I got sick I'd have to take unpaid days and then I wouldn't be able to pay all my bills! He was just helping me out! No matter how much I argued with him that I had plenty of savings and a couple of unpaid days was not going to send me to the poorhouse.

Zamboni

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2014, 06:07:37 PM »
^^Holy moly.  That must have been a LOOONNG 8 months.

^I would have requested the PTO, and when he said no, just waited until the date in questions and called in sick that day anyway.  Which could have led to being fired I suppose (assuming he could even remember the date of the original request.)

oldtoyota

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2014, 07:20:48 PM »

And not to be grim but I'm pretty sure once that happens even if this whole thing is straight, he will kill himself.  He told me once, while he was drunk (and therefore honest), that if he had to live like I did he'd hang himself in his living room.  Jump right off a chair.


A friend of mine knew a guy who did just that...killed himself due to the financial mess he'd gotten into...the law was starting to close in...

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2014, 02:44:28 PM »
So, I'm pleased to report that I got a new job!  Same company, new (old) boss.  I worked in this new department before, in a different capacity, and I love my coworkers here.  Also, a 10% pay increase in the new position!  Ah, no more being yelled at for "taking initiative, because that's not part of [your] job".  No more being told that I "have" to make all HR requests through my supervisor.  (I did actually laugh in her face about that one and said, "Absolutely not.")
The new position is super busy, but I'm excited!

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2014, 02:48:34 PM »
Congrats!

brewer12345

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2014, 05:40:21 PM »
Not sure if this is the right thread, but since it popped up again needs must.

I am still in touch with my former coworkers and am in a good position to watch things implode due to poor management of personnel. When I was there, the management stack was a really excellent front line manager, who reported to a useless, clueless and moderately pernicious idiot, who reported to a guy who is really smart but such a relentless micromanager that nobody wants to work for him.  The really good manager got a promotion recently and went to another unit, and his replacement transferred in from another unit where his subordinates apparently cheered openly when they heard he was leaving them.

This is against a backdrop of a rapidly improving labor market.  I split in January (ER).  My responsibilities were added to someone else's.  A month or so ago their most senior staffer (who was very competent and widely respected) left to go elsewhere.  His responsibilities were mostly dumped on a junior staffer.  One of my buddies who I carefully handed over as much institutional knowledge as possible before I left will be giving notice in about a week.  The junior staffer that got tagged with lots of extra work is getting ready to leave.  Another guy whose wife just had kid #1 is actively looking because they have decided a good work pattern for a new parent is  to be on the road for several weeks at a time. With the exception of the junior dude, none of these people are replaceable for what the organization pays.  Since they brought in one of the biggest douchebags in the organization to replace the excellent manager, its not like they are going to have volunteers to transfer in from other divisions.

DoubleDown

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2014, 02:52:16 PM »
Congratulations OP!

One of my worst managers ever was the 19th project manager to come onto our project in 17 months (so average turnover of less than one month). Anyhow, the new manager gathered us all around and said, "I know you've had a long string of managers come and go, and that there have been all kinds of problems. But I want you to know you can trust me." I knew at that moment we were f*cked, and I was right. He turned out to be probably the most unscrupulous and downright nasty person I ever had the displeasure of working for.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2014, 12:15:14 PM »
Congratulations OP!

One of my worst managers ever was the 19th project manager to come onto our project in 17 months (so average turnover of less than one month). Anyhow, the new manager gathered us all around and said, "I know you've had a long string of managers come and go, and that there have been all kinds of problems. But I want you to know you can trust me." I knew at that moment we were f*cked, and I was right. He turned out to be probably the most unscrupulous and downright nasty person I ever had the displeasure of working for.

I understand!  My boss has consistently told us about her virtues.  "I'm all about respect...I'm always fair...I'm always honest...I'm not stupid...." and I really, really, REALLY want to tell her that usually things like that are self apparent.  If you actually have to tell people about your supposed virtues, it's because you don't actually have them.

Zamboni

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »
^ & ^^ Oy, I had the same type of bad boss!  She would repeat frequently how honest, ethical, and fair she is, and how "everyone" important knows it.  Part of this was to try to get us not to send concerns up the food chain, as she was implying regularly that no one would believe me.  Kind of like the tactics used by a child molester to keep victims quiet, now that I think about it.  Ick!  In fact, even though I don't work for her anymore I just got copied on an email she sent today, and just seeing her name in my inbox made my blood pressure go up.

Congratulations, OP, on freeing yourself!

Travis

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2014, 08:52:19 AM »
Being in the Army the most common bad work environment comes from bosses equating your productivity and worth with how early you show up and and how late you stay, and if you're not staying as late as your boss then you're lazy and not helping the team.  It's not uncommon to be publicly shamed for attempting to go home on time even if your work is done.  I've worked for a few who did that to me, and observed plenty of others.  For some of them they believe the mantra themselves that working longer is the same as working harder while the others just can't bring themselves to disengage from the work environment.  A few had family problems they didn't want to face while the rest just couldn't switch off. They thought the world would stop spinning if they weren't at their desk.

In another unit we had a 1st Sergeant who wouldn't shut up about how close to retirement he was.  We were in Iraq and that's all he could think about.  One day a rocket hit our area and wounded three of my troops.  The leadership all went to the aid station to check on them.  The sergeant major asked the 1st sergeant to get a photo of the impact sight at some point.  He then bolted out the door to take care of that.  We didn't even know how bad the injuries were yet.  He didn't care about his men, and didn't want to do anything that might make his deployment difficult (like disagree with the sergeant major).  Later, the wife of one of my troops tried to kill herself back home. We were working on sending the kid home and while he was filling out the paperwork the 1st sergeant teased him for going home early implying the wife made it up.  I had to separate the two before it got messy.

Forcus

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2014, 10:27:30 AM »
I just caught this thread. My one question is HOW did the guy shit his chair? Did he not have pants / underwear on? Did he just blow a hole right through them? Seriously this is going to bother me all day.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2014, 11:07:22 AM »
We were working on sending the kid home and while he was filling out the paperwork the 1st sergeant teased him for going home early implying the wife made it up.  I had to separate the two before it got messy.

Holy shit that is...wow.  That's a whole new level of uncaring and lack of empathy.
That poor kid whom you were sending home.  I hope his wife got the help she needs.

EricL

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2014, 12:14:03 PM »
Being in the Army the most common bad work environment comes from bosses equating your productivity and worth with how early you show up and and how late you stay, and if you're not staying as late as your boss then you're lazy and not helping the team.  It's not uncommon to be publicly shamed for attempting to go home on time even if your work is done.  I've worked for a few who did that to me, and observed plenty of others.  For some of them they believe the mantra themselves that working longer is the same as working harder while the others just can't bring themselves to disengage from the work environment.  A few had family problems they didn't want to face while the rest just couldn't switch off. They thought the world would stop spinning if they weren't at their desk.

In another unit we had a 1st Sergeant who wouldn't shut up about how close to retirement he was.  We were in Iraq and that's all he could think about.  One day a rocket hit our area and wounded three of my troops.  The leadership all went to the aid station to check on them.  The sergeant major asked the 1st sergeant to get a photo of the impact sight at some point.  He then bolted out the door to take care of that.  We didn't even know how bad the injuries were yet.  He didn't care about his men, and didn't want to do anything that might make his deployment difficult (like disagree with the sergeant major).  Later, the wife of one of my troops tried to kill herself back home. We were working on sending the kid home and while he was filling out the paperwork the 1st sergeant teased him for going home early implying the wife made it up.  I had to separate the two before it got messy.

In garison I've known officers and senior NCOs that got around the inane belief time spent in the cubical = efficiency by bringing in an extra hat and leaving it at their desks.  As you know if somebody goes to their cubical and sees it they automatically assume they're still in the building somewhere.  Troops that were ACTUALLY efficient could get away with this forever.  I've even heard of some who parked their cars at work on the weekends AND left their hat so it looked like they worked Saturdays.  But there was no workaround for incessant meetings.

As for your dirtbag 1SG, what can I say but I wish all rank came with proven and unbreakable leadership qualities. 

Annamal

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2014, 12:25:19 AM »
I had a boss who was in the habit telling other parts of the organisation one thing and then e-mailing me completely different instructions.

I tended to forward his e-mails  to me on to the parts of the organisation he was mis-informing...

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2014, 01:16:19 PM »
I'm definitely looking forward to another post from Lalsconstant.  I've had my fair share of bad bosses but his make mine look like milksops.  Crap on a chair?  OMG.😷

Nords

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2014, 12:28:42 AM »
In garison I've known officers and senior NCOs that got around the inane belief time spent in the cubical = efficiency by bringing in an extra hat and leaving it at their desks.  As you know if somebody goes to their cubical and sees it they automatically assume they're still in the building somewhere.  Troops that were ACTUALLY efficient could get away with this forever.  I've even heard of some who parked their cars at work on the weekends AND left their hat so it looked like they worked Saturdays.  But there was no workaround for incessant meetings.
Heh.  I used to leave my garrison cap on my desk all day (to remind myself to lock up the office before I left the building).  I routinely left a spare pair of reading glasses on my desk (because I was always losing or breaking the pair in my pocket).  I also used to commute by bicycle several times a week, and in case the workday went late I'd leave the car at work instead of at home.

We also used to be able to log in to (unclassified) e-mail over a VPN.  I could do an hour or two of e-mail in the mornings before it was light enough to (safely) bicycle to work, and another hour or two in the evenings before bedtime.

No wonder my co-workers were so confused...

G-dog

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2014, 08:44:48 PM »
I'll ask the obvious -
Can we change the title of this thread to 'crappy bosses'?


SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2014, 12:04:48 PM »
I'll ask the obvious -
Can we change the title of this thread to 'crappy bosses'?

Hahahaha!!  I looked and couldn't find a way to do so.  Perhaps has to be done by a mod?  If not, if someone tells me how to do it, I totally would.  :)

brewer12345

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2014, 09:54:53 AM »
Another tale from the Fortress of Ineptitude:

So a couple weeks ago the work buddy I pretty much handed the baton to found another (vastly better) job and gave 2 weeks' notice.  He is not going to a competitor or anything and I figured they would keep him around the final 2 weeks as that is what they have done in similar situations.  When he tells them they say, please work out the two weeks.  A short while later the managerbag calls and asks more questions about where he is going.  Then a bit later they call and conference in the legal department and ask more questions.  Finally they call him late in the day and tell him that they are not sure what to do and will not be able to make a decision that day: could he please go home and stay there until they call him.  He never got a call and the only time he went in ever again was to turn in his laptop and blackberry.

SisterX

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2014, 10:21:09 AM »
Another tale from the Fortress of Ineptitude:

So a couple weeks ago the work buddy I pretty much handed the baton to found another (vastly better) job and gave 2 weeks' notice.  He is not going to a competitor or anything and I figured they would keep him around the final 2 weeks as that is what they have done in similar situations.  When he tells them they say, please work out the two weeks.  A short while later the managerbag calls and asks more questions about where he is going.  Then a bit later they call and conference in the legal department and ask more questions.  Finally they call him late in the day and tell him that they are not sure what to do and will not be able to make a decision that day: could he please go home and stay there until they call him.  He never got a call and the only time he went in ever again was to turn in his laptop and blackberry.

I had the opposite problem.  Even though my new job move was internal, my old supervisor threw a shitfit and they made me work out my two weeks with her.  No one could figure out why management would have done that, especially since I spent most of that time twiddling my thumbs.  Still kinda pissed about that, since she made me miss out on two weeks of higher pay just to be petty, but at least I'm rid of her now!

DeepEllumStache

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Re: Terrible bosses
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2014, 10:39:51 AM »
I'll ask the obvious -
Can we change the title of this thread to 'crappy bosses'?

+1 I can't even imagine discovering that mess.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!