Author Topic: The Silent Generation  (Read 3729 times)

blue_green_sparks

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The Silent Generation
« on: May 26, 2025, 07:01:50 AM »
They sure get the rose-colored glasses treatment these days by post-boomers. Their point of reference is "Saving Private Ryan". We could point out the isolationists standing by and watching fascism take over Europe, Nazi rallies in New York or perhaps we could mention the Archie Bunker prototype that was pretty much dead-on with every pre-boomer in my family. They did save the "free world", but the hippies had more than a few valid points of protest. Now many of that same generation that spawned hippies is looking to revert to pre-1960s way of life?

I realize now that "taught history" is a merely reflection of current and local attitudes. I should have realized this when I was taught about the "war of northern aggression" when we relocated to 1970s Florida. Robert E Lee was this mythical gentleman hero. Streets and schools. I'll give credit to post-boomers on that. There is right now a picture of me (on the fridge), playing bass guitar at a high-school event, standing in front of a huge Confederate battle flag. I guess I could photo-shop it to reflect my current thoughts now. I will leave there as a stark reminder. It is all about context.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2025, 08:27:05 AM »
This is very US specific.

Canada,  Australia and New Zealand , among others, declared war very soon after Britain did.  They poured people and supplies into the war effort.

My FIL was in the Canadian Air Force.  My father tried to enlist 3 times, but was refused because he was in an essential civilian occupation.  He was on the first convoy into the Mediterranean, the ship next to his was hit and limped to Tripoli.  It could have been his ship.

Gentile Danes saved 90% of Jewish Danes when Germany decided to round them up.

Lots of inspiring actions before and during WWII.

Metalcat

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2025, 09:01:16 AM »
They sure get the rose-colored glasses treatment these days by post-boomers. Their point of reference is "Saving Private Ryan". We could point out the isolationists standing by and watching fascism take over Europe, Nazi rallies in New York or perhaps we could mention the Archie Bunker prototype that was pretty much dead-on with every pre-boomer in my family. They did save the "free world", but the hippies had more than a few valid points of protest. Now many of that same generation that spawned hippies is looking to revert to pre-1960s way of life?

I realize now that "taught history" is a merely reflection of current and local attitudes. I should have realized this when I was taught about the "war of northern aggression" when we relocated to 1970s Florida. Robert E Lee was this mythical gentleman hero. Streets and schools. I'll give credit to post-boomers on that. There is right now a picture of me (on the fridge), playing bass guitar at a high-school event, standing in front of a huge Confederate battle flag. I guess I could photo-shop it to reflect my current thoughts now. I will leave there as a stark reminder. It is all about context.

Take a look at the book Prequel by Rachel Maddow if you want a really thorough exploration of that time in American history.

ChpBstrd

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2025, 09:57:15 AM »
Also check out the 1991 book Generations by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

In their model, American history can be explained through the lens of four generational archetypes ranging from the heroic and sacrificial civilization-savers to more indulgent, rebellious, and tear-it-all-down generations. Boomers rebelled against the strict hierarchies, rules, roles, and collectivist norms instituted by their parents' generation to get though the hard times of depression and war. GenX doubled down with cynicism and distrust of institutions, and even greater individualism. Through the Strauss and Howe lens, we're now (80 years or 4 generations past the end of WW2) probably close to peak individualistic indulgence and a full teardown of the post WW2 order, lining ourselves up for the next period of crisis in which a generation (Alpha?) will have to sacrifice and work collectively to struggle through.

Strauss and Howe trace the same pattern back through earlier 4-generation cycles. For example, the Revolution and the Civil War were won by heroic generational archetypes, four generations apart and also four generations from WW2.

Chris Pascale

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2025, 12:30:08 PM »
There is right now a picture of me (on the fridge), playing bass guitar at a high-school event, standing in front of a huge Confederate battle flag. I guess I could photo-shop it to reflect my current thoughts now. I will leave there as a stark reminder. It is all about context.

In Leesville, Louisiana they kept the separate water fountains at City Hall for this reason.

DoubleDown

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2025, 12:54:37 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2025, 02:20:05 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.

I think back to WWII and the merchant marines running supplies in the North Atlantic.   If they were torpedoed they were just dead as if they were in the navy.  The weather was vicious.

What about the civilians on the first convoy into the Mediterranean?  They were taking as big a risk as the navy.

And they were not eligible for military benefits.

I point this out not to downgrade the forces, but to show  that in times of war a lot of civilians are in harm's way by virtue of their jobs.

Nords

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2025, 05:53:47 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

Dicey

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2025, 07:17:07 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.
Thanks, Nords. I wouldn't have said that as eloquently as you did. Thank you for your service. Of course, I mean you singular and you plural.

DoubleDown

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2025, 09:02:16 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

Metalcat

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2025, 04:50:57 AM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

Up here in Canada we're in the midst of a massive leadership crisis over grievous misconduct within our military that leadership has ignored and suppressed for years. A quote from CBC:

"Experts say they can't think of another military anywhere else in the world that has seen so many senior leaders swept up in scandal at the same time."

So yeah, we're very comfortable up here with holding two things at once: intense respect and gratitude for what our military does for us, and heavy criticism of profoundly unethical conduct at the same time.

Two things can be true at once, both at the organizational level and at the individual level. Our military is simultaneously deserving of respect AND deserving of condemnation. And we have individual soldiers who been exemplary soldiers AND are horrible, unethical people and have ended up in jail for it. 

As a parallel, there are plenty of healthcare professionals who are also deserving of criticism and prosecution, and don't get a universal pass for their behaviour just because either they save lives or their profession does.

Holding organizations and the people within them accountable is how we keep them ethical and effective. Suppressing criticism is how institutions develop the kind of toxic culture the Canadian military is struggling to fix, and failing miserably to do so I might add.

One of our most prominent female military service members literally quit a few years ago because the reports on the massive scandal and the extent of the silence and lack of accountability was so disgusting that she saw no path forward. That's what happens when there's a lack of accountability for awfulness.

She publicly asserted that the military should even drop the name "Operation Honour" from its current campaign to address the problems because the problem is so pervasive and so unfixable that the name is a meaningless joke at this point.

Should our militaries and the people who serve it be respected for the massive benefits it/they provide to our countries? Absolutely. Should that absolve them from criticism? Absolutely not.

One of my close friends is a General and we've had so many deep, difficult, complex conversations that veer into profoundly existential territory because of his lifelong dedication to military service and his full awareness and participation in the unavoidable practice of not taking accountability.  He says that with each increase in rank, he takes a step closer to being targeted in this issue because it's literally impossible to have any leadership in the military and not be complicit. The only way to not be part of the problem is to not serve, and that's a brutal rock and hard place to be stuck between.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2025, 07:20:05 AM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

When I saw your post I immediately understood where you were coming from.  But then I’m in Law Enforcement and at times I have been assigned to protect some military EOD techs in the US as they are working in a more civilian capacity on US soil conducting bomb sweeps.  I also work with a lot of veterans in that capacity, many are awesome, some I wonder how they survived past age 5.

Morning Glory

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2025, 09:10:35 AM »
In addition to the accountability thing, I think to hold any professional group up as "heroes" (or whatever the term du jour is) does them a disservice by creating unrealistic expectations in the minds of the public in terms of how much sacrifice  is expected. This can result in lower compensation and worse working conditions compared to workers with the same education level in non "heroic" professions.  All workers have the same human needs and human frailties.

 If your job has an "appreciation week", you are probably underpaid.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2025, 09:12:06 AM by Morning Glory »

classicrando

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2025, 08:49:01 AM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

I get where you're coming from.  Though, personally, I'm a little foggy on which circumstances the military actively and successfully protected my rights in my lifetime.  Is this supposed to be a metaphorical or theoretical protection; or am I missing a specific operation where our sovereignty was threatened by a foreign power?

DoubleDown

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2025, 03:33:27 PM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

I get where you're coming from.  Though, personally, I'm a little foggy on which circumstances the military actively and successfully protected my rights in my lifetime.  Is this supposed to be a metaphorical or theoretical protection; or am I missing a specific operation where our sovereignty was threatened by a foreign power?

May I assume you are directing your question to Nords, and not me?

classicrando

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2025, 05:51:16 AM »
I have definitely also noticed the OP's experience with the "silent aka greatest generation" being treated with rose-colored glasses, and the reference to "Saving Private Ryan!" It's right there in the name, and I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it. It is very similar to the hero worship that is often afforded to every single member of the military, which I also do not understand. There are so many other people/professions that make sacrifices and do amazing things, but somehow if you're in the military you're instantly a hero that should be stopped on the street and thanked for your service. I have plenty of gratitude for people in the military who have made sacrifices, but I'm also keenly aware that the military is a large cross-section of society complete with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, racists, just a person looking for a job, and plenty of regular folks just getting by. And as Jack Reacher points out at some time in the novel series, there's a non-trivial number who specifically sign up to kill other people. But they are to be stopped and thanked too because, you know, military.
You're welcome, and thanks for your support.

I served for over two decades to help protect your First Amendment right to write paragraphs like that.

This is exactly the kind of reaction I feared and, unfortunately, it kind of proves my point. I do not intend to convey ingratitude. You and other military members do have my support, and those that made sacrifices to protect all of our rights deserve gratitude. I also served (in a slightly different capacity) for about 20 years, right alongside great military members. I don't expect any platitudes about my "service." But why interpret my statement as ingratitude? Why assume I'm not aware of my rights and how they've been protected? My point is that not all military members are great -- that's all.

My apologies that my statement caused offense. I would also invite you to reflect on why my saying that not all military members are heroes causes such a reaction and assumption that I am ungrateful. Some military members have done tremendous things for the country and given their lives in service. Some have been supreme a-holes. And most have been somewhere in-between. Does the current POTUS deserve a very special "thanks for his service" as Commander in Chief (twice, no less)?

I get where you're coming from.  Though, personally, I'm a little foggy on which circumstances the military actively and successfully protected my rights in my lifetime.  Is this supposed to be a metaphorical or theoretical protection; or am I missing a specific operation where our sovereignty was threatened by a foreign power?

May I assume you are directing your question to Nords, and not me?

Yeah, I but I was riffing off of what you said about knowing how your rights had been protected.  I genuinely can't think of a historical circumstance where the US military actively, and in a concrete manner (not theoretical "we fight the 'bad guys' there so we don't fight them here" sort of way), protected the rights of US citizens.

I dunno, maybe if the Marines sent to LA mutiny against illegal orders?  That would be a pretty active preservation of rights.

Sailor Sam

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2025, 08:07:39 AM »
I genuinely can't think of a historical circumstance where the US military actively, and in a concrete manner (not theoretical "we fight the 'bad guys' there so we don't fight them here" sort of way), protected the rights of US citizens.

I dunno, maybe if the Marines sent to LA mutiny against illegal orders?  That would be a pretty active preservation of rights.

This is not a suggestion that the military has always gotten it right, but for concrete examples: WWII, desegregation, the Rodney King riots, every hurricane that needed federal aid to survive and recover from, every cyber attack that has been prevented, the daily use of unspoofed GPS. Americans have (had?) genuine freedom to (mostly*) walk down the street without fear, and part of that is the unholy might of the US military. The US military is doing a metric ton of stuff behind the scenes that most citizens don't know about. Debating the limits of those actions is a great, and required, thing, but assuming they aren't happening because you can't see them is a simplistic world view.


*I acknowledge this is changing, which is deeply concerning. And that historically certain groups had far more freedom than others. In aggregate I hold by the statement.

Nords

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2025, 09:30:51 AM »
I get where you're coming from.  Though, personally, I'm a little foggy on which circumstances the military actively and successfully protected my rights in my lifetime.  Is this supposed to be a metaphorical or theoretical protection; or am I missing a specific operation where our sovereignty was threatened by a foreign power?
We swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

And yes, American military forces have carried out a number of operations where sovereignty was (and is) perceived to be threatened by foreign powers.  That deterrence happened before our lifetimes, during mine (and hopefully yours), and it's expected to carry on after we're gone.

If you want to state that it's metaphorical or theoretical then that's fine too-- it's your right.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2025, 12:00:09 PM by Nords »

classicrando

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2025, 10:04:40 AM »
I genuinely can't think of a historical circumstance where the US military actively, and in a concrete manner (not theoretical "we fight the 'bad guys' there so we don't fight them here" sort of way), protected the rights of US citizens.

I dunno, maybe if the Marines sent to LA mutiny against illegal orders?  That would be a pretty active preservation of rights.

This is not a suggestion that the military has always gotten it right, but for concrete examples: WWII, desegregation, the Rodney King riots, every hurricane that needed federal aid to survive and recover from, every cyber attack that has been prevented, the daily use of unspoofed GPS. Americans have (had?) genuine freedom to (mostly*) walk down the street without fear, and part of that is the unholy might of the US military. The US military is doing a metric ton of stuff behind the scenes that most citizens don't know about. Debating the limits of those actions is a great, and required, thing, but assuming they aren't happening because you can't see them is a simplistic world view.


*I acknowledge this is changing, which is deeply concerning. And that historically certain groups had far more freedom than others. In aggregate I hold by the statement.

Thank you for answering, I appreciate you taking the time to do that.  Your response is literally what I was looking for when I asked, even if some of the responses are before my time.  I did not know the military was involved in thwarting cyber attacks, as I thought all that fell under NSA/FBI collaboration.  Regarding hurricanes/natural disasters, yes, the National Guard does do a lot of work in the wake of those.  I will admit that often forget they are actually a military service and part of the Department of Defense.  It always feels like they should be part of the Department of the Interior or something.  That is totally my oversight.

To be clear--I am not trying to be a dick with these questions, but what is the functional difference between a bridge built by the Army Corps of Engineers, and one built by the Works Progress Administration?  Did we specifically need the Army to build that bridge and should its construction be justification of/credit to military expenditure?  Why does it feel like everything in this country needs to be tied in to the military somehow; like every other public service--construction, disaster response, search and rescue, higher educational access, etc.--is secondary to and contingent on combat readiness?

classicrando

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2025, 10:11:41 AM »
If you want to state that it's metaphorical or theoretical then that's fine too-- it's your right.

I'm getting my sass out while it's still largely unpunishable to do so.  ;p

Sailor Sam

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2025, 12:03:39 PM »
Thank you for answering, I appreciate you taking the time to do that.  Your response is literally what I was looking for when I asked, even if some of the responses are before my time.  I did not know the military was involved in thwarting cyber attacks, as I thought all that fell under NSA/FBI collaboration.  Regarding hurricanes/natural disasters, yes, the National Guard does do a lot of work in the wake of those.  I will admit that often forget they are actually a military service and part of the Department of Defense.  It always feels like they should be part of the Department of the Interior or something.  That is totally my oversight.

To be clear--I am not trying to be a dick with these questions, but what is the functional difference between a bridge built by the Army Corps of Engineers, and one built by the Works Progress Administration?  Did we specifically need the Army to build that bridge and should its construction be justification of/credit to military expenditure?  Why does it feel like everything in this country needs to be tied in to the military somehow; like every other public service--construction, disaster response, search and rescue, higher educational access, etc.--is secondary to and contingent on combat readiness?

My personal take on why the military is different is the intensity of sacrifices made. Service members have voluntarily given up many constitutional civil rights, and are instead subjects under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Enlisted members are continually under service obligations (they re-enlist every time their current contract expires), and commissioned officers enter and exit service agreements several times in a career based on schooling and billet posting, meaning they can't just quit. They move every 2-3 years, which has multiple repercussions for friendships and family. They deploy to unstable places, and get injured. They experience intense situations that most of society cannot relate to. Once indoctrinated into a service, they will never return to being a civilian, and reintegration into that world can be very alienating and difficult. They sometimes die.

There are other jobs that demand quite a bit of sacrifice, but I honestly can't think of one besides military service that has all of the sacrifices made by service members. I don't like being thanked for service. It makes me squirm, and is generally icky. But I will stand by the fact that the bridge built by the SeaBees is different than the bridge built by the WPA.

That said, I think there are reasonable questions as to why the SeeBees needed to be building that particular bridge, and what America is gaining from it.

GuitarStv

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2025, 12:38:34 PM »
I get where you're coming from.  Though, personally, I'm a little foggy on which circumstances the military actively and successfully protected my rights in my lifetime.  Is this supposed to be a metaphorical or theoretical protection; or am I missing a specific operation where our sovereignty was threatened by a foreign power?
We swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

The problem though, is that this oath is purely window dressing.  It holds no basis in reality.  The US military operates under a chain of command and when the head of that chain is bad, the military will happily follow that regardless of any oath related to the Constitution.

Quote
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Off the top of my head:

- The first amendment prohibits government retaliation for constitutionally protected speech - including based upon viewpoint.  Trump's administration has retaliated against legal firms and universities for holding views he didn't like.

- Trump has proposed ending (and his administration has gamed out ways to deny people) birthright citizenship in violation of the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment.  Trump has repeatedly denied due process for people he has deported, in violation of the Due Process Clause of the 14th amendment.

- Trump has violated the Emoluments Clause (Article I, Section 9, Clause 8) multiple times, most recently by formally accepting a 400 million dollar jet from Qatar.

- Trump has violated the 10th amendment by deploying the national guard (and now the US military) in California to suppress protest, against the wishes of the governor of the state.


As we can see, Trump has violated the US constitution multiple times already.  The US military is not defending the US constitution against the president.  The oath is therefore worthless.

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2025, 09:29:41 AM »
I want to point out that you are talking about the Greatest Generation, Not the Silent Generation. The GG were adults during WWII, “Saving Private Ryan”.  The Silent Generation were children during the war. My parents were both born during WWII and are silent generation.  I don’t think that generation is looked at with rose coloured glasses. That generation, much like their Gen X children are generally ignored, or confused with being a part of the generation before.

Ron Scott

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2025, 08:09:18 PM »
Also check out the 1991 book Generations by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

In their model, American history can be explained through the lens of four generational archetypes ranging from the heroic and sacrificial civilization-savers to more indulgent, rebellious, and tear-it-all-down generations. Boomers rebelled against the strict hierarchies, rules, roles, and collectivist norms instituted by their parents' generation to get though the hard times of depression and war. GenX doubled down with cynicism and distrust of institutions, and even greater individualism. Through the Strauss and Howe lens, we're now (80 years or 4 generations past the end of WW2) probably close to peak individualistic indulgence and a full teardown of the post WW2 order, lining ourselves up for the next period of crisis in which a generation (Alpha?) will have to sacrifice and work collectively to struggle through.

Strauss and Howe trace the same pattern back through earlier 4-generation cycles. For example, the Revolution and the Civil War were won by heroic generational archetypes, four generations apart and also four generations from WW2.

That’s an interesting approach to looking at the timeline. With multiple generations in play at once all the time and with people changing their attitudes as they age I wonder how they’d square that with the challenging history the country’s lived through:

400 years of slavery with another 100 years of forced segregation during Jim Crow
Genocide of the native Indian population
The Civil War
The 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions
The 1950s Deportation of more than a million “wetbacks” including thousands of US citizens
The 70 years fight for women’s sufferage
The 1st and 2nd Red Scares (reaction to the Bolsheviks in the early 1900s and McCarthyism in the ‘50s)
The World Wars
The incarceration of Japanese citizens in internment camps
The Cold War and global American Age—including the overthrow of legitimate governments throughout the world
The “War on Drugs”, as we increased the number of imprisoned Americans (mostly black/hispanic) 7X
The Generational (20 years) War in the Middle East

Sometimes I think the “generations” have some years of potential influence…some opportunity to make their mark…and then just slip into the broader tapestry with the rest of the living.

PeteD01

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2025, 09:04:39 AM »
Also check out the 1991 book Generations by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

In their model, American history can be explained through the lens of four generational archetypes ranging from the heroic and sacrificial civilization-savers to more indulgent, rebellious, and tear-it-all-down generations. Boomers rebelled against the strict hierarchies, rules, roles, and collectivist norms instituted by their parents' generation to get though the hard times of depression and war. GenX doubled down with cynicism and distrust of institutions, and even greater individualism. Through the Strauss and Howe lens, we're now (80 years or 4 generations past the end of WW2) probably close to peak individualistic indulgence and a full teardown of the post WW2 order, lining ourselves up for the next period of crisis in which a generation (Alpha?) will have to sacrifice and work collectively to struggle through.

Strauss and Howe trace the same pattern back through earlier 4-generation cycles. For example, the Revolution and the Civil War were won by heroic generational archetypes, four generations apart and also four generations from WW2.

That’s an interesting approach to looking at the timeline. With multiple generations in play at once all the time and with people changing their attitudes as they age I wonder how they’d square that with the challenging history the country’s lived through:

400 years of slavery with another 100 years of forced segregation during Jim Crow
Genocide of the native Indian population
The Civil War
The 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions
The 1950s Deportation of more than a million “wetbacks” including thousands of US citizens
The 70 years fight for women’s sufferage
The 1st and 2nd Red Scares (reaction to the Bolsheviks in the early 1900s and McCarthyism in the ‘50s)
The World Wars
The incarceration of Japanese citizens in internment camps
The Cold War and global American Age—including the overthrow of legitimate governments throughout the world
The “War on Drugs”, as we increased the number of imprisoned Americans (mostly black/hispanic) 7X
The Generational (20 years) War in the Middle East

Sometimes I think the “generations” have some years of potential influence…some opportunity to make their mark…and then just slip into the broader tapestry with the rest of the living.

The concept of "generations" in the sense of a number of consecutive age cohorts temporally constrained by exposure to historical events of various duration isn't really useful.

In the first step, the frequencies of certain beliefs is empirically determined in age cohorts corresponding to time periods determined by historical exposures and the term "generation" designates that thus created group of consecutive age cohorts.
Obviously, the proposition that a particular sequence of cohorts represents a "generation" is simply a tautology that is always true and therefore carries high impact in terms of plausibility (like the tautology 2+2=4) unless the circularity is recognized.

In the second step, the concept of "generation" is expanded beyond the circular definition with empirical research investigating group beliefs that were not part of the initial defining set of beliefs.
Of course, there will always be a good number of beliefs that are covariant with the original beliefs that lend more plausibility to the idea that "generations" are a thing if the covariance is not recognized (extremely common error).

This sets the stage for the next step in which the set of beliefs that have been found to differentiate the initial group of cohorts from other groups and the newly found (often covariant) beliefs.
This combined set of beliefs is then declared to be a differentiating characteristic of the "generation" in question and that remains stable over time.

In the fourth step, the set of beliefs that have now taken on a sense of immutability through time. This represents the step in which reification takes place which in turn satisfies the desire for constancy that imbues the concept with heightened plausibility again.

There is much more to be said but it should become clear that "generation" is not logically defensible concept and scientifically useless as any attempt to map the "generations" back to to the historical events that were used to determine the group of cohorts the "generation" consists of is again circular.

From all this, an avalanche of junk science and other nonsense can be created to feed the publication machine and to keep ignorant journalists and politicians happy - and all that keeps going of because tautologies come with this heightened sense of plausibility because they are always true in isolation (emotional reasoning is what is exploited here).

So it won't square because it is circular at heart (pun intended), and contains the error of immutability of beliefs and attitudes over time, making these characteristics appear to be an essential feature of the personalities of the people exposed to certain historical events/periods (there are echoes of the fundamental attribution error here).


I like that the authors of the article quote Leibniz, the philosopher and mathematician who was a co-creator of calculus.
I think it is meant as a stab at the combination of an unshakeable but flawed belief in frequentist statistics combined with ignorance of basic logic that keeps this kind of thing going with no end in sight - fundamentally, describing reality as step functions instead of additive infinitesimally small changes over time:

Natura non facit saltus (nature does not make leaps) Leibniz, New Essays (IV, 16).


Are generations a useful concept?
David P. Costanza
Cort W. Rudolph
Hannes Zacher
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.actpsy.2023.104059

Abstract
The concepts of generations and generational differences have received much attention in the academic literature, in the popular press, and among practitioners, policymakers, and politicians. Despite the continued interest, research has failed to find convincing evidence for the existence of distinct generations, commonly conceptualized as broad groupings of birth cohorts (e.g., 1980–2000) that have been influenced by a set of significant events (e.g., economic depressions) and labeled with names and qualities that supposedly reflect their defining characteristics (e.g., Millennials). Further, any differences that have been found in empirical studies, and that have been attributed to generational membership, are more likely due to age and/or contemporaneous period effects. Nonetheless, some researchers, employers, institutions, governments, and many laypeople continue to treat generations like they are a powerful and actionable phenomenon.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001691823002354

Ron Scott

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2025, 09:14:48 AM »
Also check out the 1991 book Generations by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

In their model, American history can be explained through the lens of four generational archetypes ranging from the heroic and sacrificial civilization-savers to more indulgent, rebellious, and tear-it-all-down generations. Boomers rebelled against the strict hierarchies, rules, roles, and collectivist norms instituted by their parents' generation to get though the hard times of depression and war. GenX doubled down with cynicism and distrust of institutions, and even greater individualism. Through the Strauss and Howe lens, we're now (80 years or 4 generations past the end of WW2) probably close to peak individualistic indulgence and a full teardown of the post WW2 order, lining ourselves up for the next period of crisis in which a generation (Alpha?) will have to sacrifice and work collectively to struggle through.

Strauss and Howe trace the same pattern back through earlier 4-generation cycles. For example, the Revolution and the Civil War were won by heroic generational archetypes, four generations apart and also four generations from WW2.

That’s an interesting approach to looking at the timeline. With multiple generations in play at once all the time and with people changing their attitudes as they age I wonder how they’d square that with the challenging history the country’s lived through:

400 years of slavery with another 100 years of forced segregation during Jim Crow
Genocide of the native Indian population
The Civil War
The 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions
The 1950s Deportation of more than a million “wetbacks” including thousands of US citizens
The 70 years fight for women’s sufferage
The 1st and 2nd Red Scares (reaction to the Bolsheviks in the early 1900s and McCarthyism in the ‘50s)
The World Wars
The incarceration of Japanese citizens in internment camps
The Cold War and global American Age—including the overthrow of legitimate governments throughout the world
The “War on Drugs”, as we increased the number of imprisoned Americans (mostly black/hispanic) 7X
The Generational (20 years) War in the Middle East

Sometimes I think the “generations” have some years of potential influence…some opportunity to make their mark…and then just slip into the broader tapestry with the rest of the living.

The concept of "generations" in the sense of a number of consecutive age cohorts temporally constrained by exposure to historical events of various duration isn't really useful.

In the first step, the frequencies of certain beliefs is empirically determined in age cohorts corresponding to time periods determined by historical exposures and the term "generation" designates that thus created group of consecutive age cohorts.
Obviously, the proposition that a particular sequence of cohorts represents a "generation" is simply a tautology that is always true and therefore carries high impact in terms of plausibility (like the tautology 2+2=4) unless the circularity is recognized.

In the second step, the concept of "generation" is expanded beyond the circular definition with empirical research investigating group beliefs that were not part of the initial defining set of beliefs.
Of course, there will always be a good number of beliefs that are covariant with the original beliefs that lend more plausibility to the idea that "generations" are a thing if the covariance is not recognized (extremely common error).

This sets the stage for the next step in which the set of beliefs that have been found to differentiate the initial group of cohorts from other groups and the newly found (often covariant) beliefs.
This combined set of beliefs is then declared to be a differentiating characteristic of the "generation" in question and that remains stable over time.

In the fourth step, the set of beliefs that have now taken on a sense of immutability through time. This represents the step in which reification takes place which in turn satisfies the desire for constancy that imbues the concept with heightened plausibility again.

There is much more to be said but it should become clear that "generation" is not logically defensible concept and scientifically useless as any attempt to map the "generations" back to to the historical events that were used to determine the group of cohorts the "generation" consists of is again circular.

From all this, an avalanche of junk science and other nonsense can be created to feed the publication machine and to keep ignorant journalists and politicians happy - and all that keeps going of because tautologies come with this heightened sense of plausibility because they are always true in isolation (emotional reasoning is what is exploited here).

So it won't square because it is circular at heart (pun intended), and contains the error of immutability of beliefs and attitudes over time, making these characteristics appear to be an essential feature of the personalities of the people exposed to certain historical events/periods (there are echoes of the fundamental attribution error here).


I like that the authors of the article quote Leibniz, the philosopher and mathematician who was a co-creator of calculus.
I think it is meant as a stab at the combination of an unshakeable but flawed belief in frequentist statistics combined with ignorance of basic logic that keeps this kind of thing going with no end in sight - fundamentally, describing reality as step functions instead of additive infinitesimally small changes over time:

Natura non facit saltus (nature does not make leaps) Leibniz, New Essays (IV, 16).


Are generations a useful concept?
David P. Costanza
Cort W. Rudolph
Hannes Zacher
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.actpsy.2023.104059

Abstract
The concepts of generations and generational differences have received much attention in the academic literature, in the popular press, and among practitioners, policymakers, and politicians. Despite the continued interest, research has failed to find convincing evidence for the existence of distinct generations, commonly conceptualized as broad groupings of birth cohorts (e.g., 1980–2000) that have been influenced by a set of significant events (e.g., economic depressions) and labeled with names and qualities that supposedly reflect their defining characteristics (e.g., Millennials). Further, any differences that have been found in empirical studies, and that have been attributed to generational membership, are more likely due to age and/or contemporaneous period effects. Nonetheless, some researchers, employers, institutions, governments, and many laypeople continue to treat generations like they are a powerful and actionable phenomenon.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001691823002354

Yet we find it intuitively easy to identify like beliefs and actions by “generation”. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater it’s probably helpful to consider George Box’ axiom that all models are wrong but some are useful. The generation concept is overused, but has utility if applied thoughtfully.

PeteD01

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2025, 09:19:44 AM »
Yet we find it intuitively easy to identify like beliefs and actions by “generation”. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater it’s probably helpful to consider George Box’ axiom that all models are wrong but some are useful. The generation concept is overused, but has utility if applied thoughtfully.

The concept of "generation" fails on basic logical grounds and therefore cannot be applied thoughtfully unless deception is the usefulness sought.
Practically all other uses of the concept desrve the designation of thoughtless use. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2025, 11:20:05 AM »
Population studies (think of actuaries) use 5 year cohorts.

There is a big difference between me and someone born 5 years earlier or later. And we are all "boomers".


deborah

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2025, 11:46:32 AM »
Somehow the number of years per generation has changed:

Silent generation 1926 - 1945 =20 years
Boomers 1946 - 1965  =20 years
Gen x 1966 - 1980 =15 years (even though they had babies later, so there was probably about 25 years between generations)
Millennials 1981 - 1995 =15 years
Gen z 1996 - 2010 =15 years

This means that when the generations are compared, there are fewer in the younger cohorts, and the experiences of the generations vary less.

Fru-Gal

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2025, 12:05:38 PM »
I would like to know who in fact invented the stupid labels in the first place! It seems likely that it was journalists but I don’t know.

A friend used to call themselves a Millennial all the time, despite being way too old for it. I started to call them “the oldest Millennial in the world”. I think now they call themselves an X-ennial and insist that we are from different generations despite being born in the same decade.

In a way this is a symptom of the relentless need to label/categorize (which, granted, can be useful.)

For example, there are known life stages we all go through — that weren’t even recognized as such ~150 years ago! Childhood, adolescence, menopausal for example… And the truth is you will meet wise children and idiotic impulsive elders and everyone in between.

However, BIOLOGY is important, and hard to negate. If you’re a 60-year-old woman wanting to have a baby, it’s going to take a lot of science… yet it’s probably happened somewhere somehow without any science at all!

rosarugosa

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #30 on: Today at 05:19:01 AM »
I've always thought "The Generations" were similar to zodiac signs, an amusing parlor game but without any real underlying validity. I worked in HR, and there was often discussion around the various generations in the workforce.  I always thought that a lot, if not all, of the generational differences could just be explained by relative age.  For example, I once heard a statement to the effect that Baby Boomers were more interested in benefits related to retirement, but I'm sure the same will be true for Generation Z once they are nearing retirement age.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #31 on: Today at 06:17:30 AM »
Somehow the number of years per generation has changed:

Silent generation 1926 - 1945 =20 years
Boomers 1946 - 1965  =20 years
Gen x 1966 - 1980 =15 years (even though they had babies later, so there was probably about 25 years between generations)
Millennials 1981 - 1995 =15 years
Gen z 1996 - 2010 =15 years

This means that when the generations are compared, there are fewer in the younger cohorts, and the experiences of the generations vary less.
I visit the amusing reddit sub r/BoomersBeingFools to get perspective and much of it is certainly more related to the natural differences due to age that occur over and over for every generation.

I noted that many later boomers feel their life experiences differ significantly from the earlier boomers and are sometimes called "r/GenerationJones. Not sure that label is a good distinction, lol.

The emphasis of the boomer being fools" forum seems the be that boomers are selfish, greedy, rude, racists with queerphobia that had great macroeconomic conditions and easy lives compared to their offspring and grandchildren. They tell their progeny to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and call them "snowflakes" and "buttercups". They are squandering inheritances and are leaving a destroyed smoldering planet. I also noticed some of the complaints are fairly trivial and many of the boomer examples (such as Elon) are actually of the Gen X vintage.

I wonder how the boomers will be viewed in retrospect. There were actually so many incredible positive achievements. Will the recent MAGA politics, ongoing wars and global warming overshadow all that? I think perhaps a negative context is being laid down already.

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #32 on: Today at 07:42:49 AM »
I disagree with the claim that generations are not a thing.

There may not be a sharp, easily demarcated line, but people born in different decades spent their formative years in vastly different environments that shaped their personalities en masse.

If you were born in the 1920s or 30s, your formative experiences were of deprivation and community reliance, and as an adult you probably worked in a physical job. Many, many males served in WW2. You listened to jazz or gospel. You prioritized frugality, stability, and community. And if white, you were racist.

If you were born in the 1940s or 50s, you probably spent a large percentage of your free time in front of a television, and maybe you worked in an office for a service industry company. You might have attempted to avoid military service. You listened to rock-n-roll, R&B, or early pop music. You prioritized self-expression early in life, and money making and consumption later in life.

If you were born in the 70s or the 80s you probably spent much of your youth in front of a suitcase-like desktop computer or playing video games on the family TV, you too probably worked in an office for a service industry company. You listened to 80s pop, grunge, and especially rap. You prioritized being entertained. You spent your prime earning years bouncing from economic crisis to economic crisis, from 2000 to 2007 to 2020, and now you own crypto out of cynicism, techno-opportunism, and the idea you can get off the roller coaster.

If you were born in the 90s or oughts, you might have received an ipad or cell phone as a small child or teen, and spent more time doing that than any previous generation had ever spent on electronics. You were the first generation to not play outside very often, or roam your neighborhood, as your "stranger danger" parents felt the need to shelter you, and so they encouraged you to play on electronic devices instead. You reached maturity in a world where housing was unaffordable even for wealthy professionals, where the internet was the only source of current information you were aware of, and where sending genetalia pics and making racial jokes was the norm. Your defining generational experience was the anxiety of isolation of the 2020-2022 pandemic, which will cause issues later in life.

Do we really think people plucked from each of these cohorts, at the age of let's say, 25, really thought about the world in the same way, worried about the same issues, took pride in the same things (e.g. beating polio as a community, owning a nice car, having over a thousand followers), prioritized the same goals in life (e.g. having kids, owning a china cabinet, being part of an organized community, etc)? And do we think if we used our time machine and gathered these 25 year olds together, that they would be indistinguishable from one another?

GuitarStv

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Re: The Silent Generation
« Reply #33 on: Today at 08:09:21 AM »
I disagree with the claim that generations are not a thing.

There may not be a sharp, easily demarcated line, but people born in different decades spent their formative years in vastly different environments that shaped their personalities en masse.

If you were born in the 1920s or 30s, your formative experiences were of deprivation and community reliance, and as an adult you probably worked in a physical job. Many, many males served in WW2. You listened to jazz or gospel. You prioritized frugality, stability, and community. And if white, you were racist.

If you were born in the 1940s or 50s, you probably spent a large percentage of your free time in front of a television, and maybe you worked in an office for a service industry company. You might have attempted to avoid military service. You listened to rock-n-roll, R&B, or early pop music. You prioritized self-expression early in life, and money making and consumption later in life.

If you were born in the 70s or the 80s you probably spent much of your youth in front of a suitcase-like desktop computer or playing video games on the family TV, you too probably worked in an office for a service industry company. You listened to 80s pop, grunge, and especially rap. You prioritized being entertained. You spent your prime earning years bouncing from economic crisis to economic crisis, from 2000 to 2007 to 2020, and now you own crypto out of cynicism, techno-opportunism, and the idea you can get off the roller coaster.

If you were born in the 90s or oughts, you might have received an ipad or cell phone as a small child or teen, and spent more time doing that than any previous generation had ever spent on electronics. You were the first generation to not play outside very often, or roam your neighborhood, as your "stranger danger" parents felt the need to shelter you, and so they encouraged you to play on electronic devices instead. You reached maturity in a world where housing was unaffordable even for wealthy professionals, where the internet was the only source of current information you were aware of, and where sending genetalia pics and making racial jokes was the norm. Your defining generational experience was the anxiety of isolation of the 2020-2022 pandemic, which will cause issues later in life.

Do we really think people plucked from each of these cohorts, at the age of let's say, 25, really thought about the world in the same way, worried about the same issues, took pride in the same things (e.g. beating polio as a community, owning a nice car, having over a thousand followers), prioritized the same goals in life (e.g. having kids, owning a china cabinet, being part of an organized community, etc)? And do we think if we used our time machine and gathered these 25 year olds together, that they would be indistinguishable from one another?

There are likely going to be a few areas of overlap.  Group together enough folks with a few similar characteristics and you're always going to find areas of overlap.

Like, I was born in '81.

My family moved around a lot when I was very young, my earliest childhood memories from the time where we were living in a small northern Alberta fly-in native community where my mom ran the school, and my dad ran the only store in town.  Later we moved to a remote town in northern Ontario where the rest of my childhood was spent.  Power outages (and occasional boil water warnings) for extended periods were a thing - I remember doing homework by oil lamp.  Our house was heated all winter long by firewood, which I chopped every day that I came home from school.  Fishing and hunting were not just a source of entertainment, for many of the native kids I went to school with they were a significant source of food during the year.  Nobody had much money, nobody had much education.  There was only one channel we picked up on our black and white TV, so I spent most of the summer on my bike roaming the town, playing games in the nearby woods with friends, and reading comic books.  It was a really big deal when I got a Nintendo, and then later we got a colour TV.  Most of the music I listened to early on was from my dad's records - so classic rock, a little prog, and some country.

Today I don't own a cell phone.  I've never worked in the service industry.  I got laid off during the 2008 downturn, and had a really hard time finding a job (that's really the only financial crisis that significantly impacted me).  I don't own crypto.  I've never really felt like I was on a financial roller coaster.  I don't think I really prioritize 'being entertained' - making my own entertainment is something I've always had to do.

There's a little bit that I share with other millennials, but on a great many issues there is a vast sea of differences.  Actually, I'd argue that I share at least as much with Gen X as my 'own' generation.