Talking To Flat Earth Friends

[MasterStache]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

Perhaps the entirety of all the perceived Gods are just partaking in a little Ultimate Frisbee with our flat Earth. 

[sol]

The answer would be that you went in a circle. 

How do these people explain magnetic compasses, which follow field lines and will show that you did NOT fly in a circle on your trip?

I mean it kind of makes sense for a single round trip, if you can artificially draw a swirly magnetic field on a disc shaped world, but you can literally fly straight around the world from ANY starting point in ANY direction, which would be impossible on a disc world without fucking up your compass bearings.

[dragoncar]

The answer would be that you went in a circle. 

How do these people explain magnetic compasses, which follow field lines and will show that you did NOT fly in a circle on your trip?

I mean it kind of makes sense for a single round trip, if you can artificially draw a swirly magnetic field on a disc shaped world, but you can literally fly straight around the world from ANY starting point in ANY direction, which would be impossible on a disc world without fucking up your compass bearings.

Nobody knows how magnets work, anyways.  And I don't want to talk to a scientist, y'all mother fuckers lyin, and gettin me pissed

[sol]

I'm also still unclear on why the summer days are longer in Minnesota than the are in Florida.  Do they have an explanation for that one?  This is literally how we first proved the Earth was round with measurable experiments, because you can prove it with nothing more than an hourglass.

On a more fundamental level, absent things like geometry, what is disc world supposed to be made of?  There's a reason we never see disc-shaped asteroids, and ultimately it's because the ordinary matter of our solar system just isn't structurally sound enough to build arbitrarily large structures in any shape other than a gravitationally optimized sphere.  Mt. Everest is approximately as tall as a mound of granite CAN be on planet Earth, because if you make it any bigger the rock isn't strong enough to support it's own weight.

Wait, where do they think gravity comes from?  This is just so confusing.  Does gravity pull sideways out at the edge of the disc, to keep the oceans from falling off (which would be trippy to sail in), or is there like some kind of bathtub rim out there?  Please don't tell me the rim is made of ice, because ice floats.

This is how I feel every time I talk with my some of my (biblically literal) Christian friends.  Every explanation they have just raises more questions for me than I had when we started, and eventually my head hurts.  At least they ultimately resort to "Well, it's just magic and it doesn't have to make sense" which in some ways is easier to accept than a flat-earther who thinks he has a scientific explanation for his particular flavor of nonsense.

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

The answer would be that you went in a circle. 

How do these people explain magnetic compasses, which follow field lines and will show that you did NOT fly in a circle on your trip?

I mean it kind of makes sense for a single round trip, if you can artificially draw a swirly magnetic field on a disc shaped world, but you can literally fly straight around the world from ANY starting point in ANY direction, which would be impossible on a disc world without fucking up your compass bearings.

Prepare to get dumber. The real question is why is Antarctica off limits? Why can't anyone go there and what are they hiding? The TRUTH!

[sol]

The answer would be that you went in a circle. 

How do these people explain magnetic compasses, which follow field lines and will show that you did NOT fly in a circle on your trip?

I mean it kind of makes sense for a single round trip, if you can artificially draw a swirly magnetic field on a disc shaped world, but you can literally fly straight around the world from ANY starting point in ANY direction, which would be impossible on a disc world without fucking up your compass bearings.

Prepare to get dumber. The real question is why is Antarctica off limits? Why can't anyone go there and what are they hiding? The TRUTH!

26 minutes?  I dunno man, can you summarize for me?

Is it because Mr. Freakshow took a pocket compass inside of a metal airplane?

[Linea_Norway]

The answer would be that you went in a circle. 

How do these people explain magnetic compasses, which follow field lines and will show that you did NOT fly in a circle on your trip?

I mean it kind of makes sense for a single round trip, if you can artificially draw a swirly magnetic field on a disc shaped world, but you can literally fly straight around the world from ANY starting point in ANY direction, which would be impossible on a disc world without fucking up your compass bearings.

Prepare to get dumber. The real question is why is Antarctica off limits? Why can't anyone go there and what are they hiding? The TRUTH!

There are of course adventurers who have crossed Antarctica from coast to coast.

No, these people are just objecting against a well defined fact for whatever reason. Probably because they are "against" society as it is and just want to be cross. Maybe like a 2 years old saying "no" against everything.

[dragoncar]

I'm also still unclear on why the summer days are longer in Minnesota than the are in Florida.  Do they have an explanation for that one?  This is literally how we first proved the Earth was round with measurable experiments, because you can prove it with nothing more than an hourglass.

On a more fundamental level, absent things like geometry, what is disc world supposed to be made of?  There's a reason we never see disc-shaped asteroids, and ultimately it's because the ordinary matter of our solar system just isn't structurally sound enough to build arbitrarily large structures in any shape other than a gravitationally optimized sphere.  Mt. Everest is approximately as tall as a mound of granite CAN be on planet Earth, because if you make it any bigger the rock isn't strong enough to support it's own weight.

Wait, where do they think gravity comes from?  This is just so confusing.  Does gravity pull sideways out at the edge of the disc, to keep the oceans from falling off (which would be trippy to sail in), or is there like some kind of bathtub rim out there?  Please don't tell me the rim is made of ice, because ice floats.

This is how I feel every time I talk with my some of my (biblically literal) Christian friends.  Every explanation they have just raises more questions for me than I had when we started, and eventually my head hurts.  At least they ultimately resort to "Well, it's just magic and it doesn't have to make sense" which in some ways is easier to accept than a flat-earther who thinks he has a scientific explanation for his particular flavor of nonsense.

I mentioned above that they claim gravity doesn't exist and the earth is constantly accelerating "up" at 9.8m/ss

Of course we don't see any disc asteroids.  We don't see any asteroids at all, because all that data is fake.  Have you ever seen an asteroid in person?

[sol]

Have you ever seen an asteroid in person?

I have never been to space but I've seen LOTS of asteroids that have hit the Earth's atmosphere, and lots more that have landed on the surface of Earth.  I've even touched some!  Are we only allowed to believe in things we have personally proven to ourselves?

The overlap and association between flat earthers with Christian literalists is interesting to me, because flat earthers refuse to believe anything they can't see for themselves and Christians ONLY believe things they can't see for themselves, and yet one of these groups gave rise to the other. 

You can literally measure isotope abundances yourself at your local university.  You can take intro physics and then minerology and work up the concordia diagram all by yourself, and you can, independently and without any prior suppositions, prove to yourself that a particular rock is billions of years old.  No belief required!  The flat earthers should love it!

In the exact same way, you can measure the gravitational constant of the universe with lead weights, or the speed of light with a rotating mirror, or the exact value of pi by dropping needles on a tiled floor, or the circumference of the earth with an hourglass.  These are historical experiments that real people really did, and you can absolutely reproduce them yourself.

How is it that modern humans take the totally opaque miracle of the internet totally for granted like it's no big deal, but absolutely refuse to believe in science they can reproduce at home?  I'm baffled.

Well, okay I'm not that baffled.  As several people here have already pointed out, there is a very strong contrarian conspiracy theorist streak in the current zeitgeist.  I'm sure there's a huge amount of overlap between people who believe the Earth is flat and people who believe the deep state is using fake news to discredit the most honest President ever.  It's only a matter of time before DJ Trumpenstein weighs in on the flat earth debate (via Twitter, of course).  I'm guessing he'll say there are "some very fine people on both sides" of this issue. 

[dragoncar]

Have you ever seen an asteroid in person?

I have never been to space but I've seen LOTS of asteroids that have hit the Earth's atmosphere, and lots more that have landed on the surface of Earth.  I've even touched some!  Are we only allowed to believe in things we have personally proven to ourselves?

I think you mean meteorites.  Those are just bits of rock launched from FBI spy planes to fool the sheeple.

[sol]

I think you mean meteorites.

Yes, that's what you call asteroids that land on Earth's surface.  They have unique chemical signatures that are distinct from any rock found on Earth, so they're pretty easy to identify.

I suppose flat earthers don't believe in chemistry either?

[dragoncar]

I think you mean meteorites.

Yes, that's what you call asteroids that land on Earth's surface.  They have unique chemical signatures that are distinct from any rock found on Earth, so they're pretty easy to identify.

I suppose flat earthers don't believe in chemistry either?

Chemical signatures can be faked, either created in a lab or the data falsified.  I doubt you personally assayed any.

And BTW, meteorites are METEOROIDS that land on the ground.  Asteroids that hit the ground are called asteroidites.

Hey you still wanna have a beer?

[nereo]

THis is what pisses me off about discussions with these conspiracy theorist people.  They start with some bat-s$&^ crazy notion and some observation they claim is 'proof'.  You show why this proof is bogus and then they say 'well what about x?!" So you debunk 'x' only for it to lead to y and z and xx ... etc (until you get to xxx?).  If at any point you get tired of this they declare victory: "ha! you can't prove it's not true!" Nevermind the 20-some examples you just tediously debunked and the dozens of lines of evidence contradicting their hypothesis that they won't even address.

It's exactly the opposite of how science is supposed to work. You start with an idea of how things work (a hypothesis).  If experiments (observations) don't support this idea, you have to adjust your hypothesis.   

[radram]

So you debunk 'x' only for it to lead to y and z and xx ... etc (until you get to xxx?). 

So all theories lead to pornography? Makes more sense to me now. I'm off to to "prove some theories" :)

[nereo]

So you debunk 'x' only for it to lead to y and z and xx ... etc (until you get to xxx?). 

So all theories lead to pornography? Makes more sense to me now. I'm off to to "prove some theories" :)

At the very least, all debates about conspiracy theories ultimately head down places where most workplace filters should block.

[radram]

LOL

"I don’t believe in science.

I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust, but that’s not science, that’s just a formula.

There’s no difference between science and science fiction."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/03/27/flat-earth-rocket-man-finally-blasts-off-in-homemade-rocket-to-prove-earth-is-flat/#675d85379b6f

Lol I remember reading about that guy.  "I know all about this "science" stuff, but it's not science." bahahahaha

I was planning to host a watch party for his original launch before it was cancelled, but I believe he did finally end up launching his rocket.

I didn't even know he launched just a couple hours away from me, sad I missed it! I actually drove right through there friday, so close to witnessing this wonderful piece of history.

Some people might have seen a rocket go up, but no way was he actually in it. He can't prove he was actually IN the rocket, can he? I bet he is more of an illusionist than a flat-earth believer. He has been very successful so far. Lots of attention on a fake rocket launch.

Using a conspiracy theory to prove a completely different conspiracy theory. Very clever.

[Davnasty]

Have you ever seen an asteroid in person?

I have never been to space but I've seen LOTS of asteroids that have hit the Earth's atmosphere, and lots more that have landed on the surface of Earth.  I've even touched some!  Are we only allowed to believe in things we have personally proven to ourselves?

The overlap and association between flat earthers with Christian literalists is interesting to me, because flat earthers refuse to believe anything they can't see for themselves and Christians ONLY believe things they can't see for themselves, and yet one of these groups gave rise to the other. 

You can literally measure isotope abundances yourself at your local university.  You can take intro physics and then minerology and work up the concordia diagram all by yourself, and you can, independently and without any prior suppositions, prove to yourself that a particular rock is billions of years old.  No belief required!  The flat earthers should love it!

In the exact same way, you can measure the gravitational constant of the universe with lead weights, or the speed of light with a rotating mirror, or the exact value of pi by dropping needles on a tiled floor, or the circumference of the earth with an hourglass.  These are historical experiments that real people really did, and you can absolutely reproduce them yourself.

How is it that modern humans take the totally opaque miracle of the internet totally for granted like it's no big deal, but absolutely refuse to believe in science they can reproduce at home?  I'm baffled.

Well, okay I'm not that baffled.  As several people here have already pointed out, there is a very strong contrarian conspiracy theorist streak in the current zeitgeist.  I'm sure there's a huge amount of overlap between people who believe the Earth is flat and people who believe the deep state is using fake news to discredit the most honest President ever.  It's only a matter of time before DJ Trumpenstein weighs in on the flat earth debate (via Twitter, of course).  I'm guessing he'll say there are "some very fine people on both sides" of this issue.

I think this is actually a big part of it except that they do believe things that they haven't proven themselves, they just pick and choose which ones to believe and they prefer to believe the things that aren't "mainstream".

You contrasted these people to Christian literalists but I think to them it's similar...ish. They see any and every belief as "faith" and they distrust anyone with power so instead they trust the little guy, their people. Even your examples take faith that a measurement tool works a certain way and that the math works the way someone else says it does. Standing on the shoulders of giants? Giants are liars...ice giants on the other hand, totally plausible.

[GuitarStv]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

[Davnasty]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

Like in Pac-Man?

[GuitarStv]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

Like in Pac-Man?

Yes!

[KTG]

I dated a religious girl once, even though I am not religious. We lived together as a matter of fact. Her dad wasn't a priest, but something like it. Can't remember all the specifics. But we regularly clashed over religious and scientific beliefs. She knocked me about extraterrestrial life, and I broke out a astronomy book, wrote out an equation based on how large the known universe was, how many stars there were, and threw in an average of how many planets might orbit those stars, then asked her to plug in whatever percentage of those planets might reside in the goldilocks zone. When I pointed out that any picture of the universe was just a pin head of the night's sky, the gears slowly turned, and she didn't have many answers after that.

But it wasn't until I took her to the Grand Canyon did things really sink in. Before that, she didn't think the planet was very old. Like in thousands of years. When she would see it took millions of years to erode the canyon to make it what it is today, she just got quiet. I could tell it was challenging what her dad had taught her.

But most don't need to know all that to get by. The Bible is written for a 5th grade audience, and keeps it simple. Not everyone can absorb scientific theories. Plus, they simply did not know what we know now when those scripts were written. It amazes me the power that book has over people still. It has to be emotional, because logically it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[sol]

When she would see it took millions of years to erode the canyon to make it what it is today, she just got quiet. I could tell it was challenging what her dad had taught her.

There's a whole movement out there that thinks the Grand Canyon was carved overnight by Noah's flood.  Nevermind the ten different problems with that theory.

It amazes me the power that book has over people still.

It doesn't amaze me at all.  Do you think Jack and the Beanstalk or Tortoise and the Hare should fade away into history?  Should we abandon the story of magical Santa but not magical Jesus?  Despite the obviously silly magical components, these are stories passed down by generations of parents and incorporated into our culture.  They teach lessons about life, and provide a common frame of reference for people who want to live together in a cooperative society.  They offer hope and inspiration, and are very good at generating warm fuzzy feelings in both audiences of children and their adult storytellers.  Some people even base their entire moral foundation on these old stories, by carefully picking and choosing specific parts that are still culturally acceptable.  People love good stories, and the ones in the bible are antiques.  People love antiques, too.

[former player]

an equation based on how large the known universe was, how many stars there were, and threw in an average of how many planets might orbit those stars, then asked her to plug in whatever percentage of those planets might reside in the goldilocks zone. [/quote]
Drake's equation?  I used to keep a copy of that in my wallet.

[nereo]

an equation based on how large the known universe was, how many stars there were, and threw in an average of how many planets might orbit those stars, then asked her to plug in whatever percentage of those planets might reside in the goldilocks zone.

Drake's equation?  I used to keep a copy of that in my wallet.
[/quote]

People who think there cannot be life outside our solar system do not appreciate how large the cosmos are
People who think we can visit other solar systems do not comprehend just how far even the closest stars are from earth.

[Glenstache]

LOL

"I don’t believe in science.

I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust, but that’s not science, that’s just a formula.

There’s no difference between science and science fiction."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/03/27/flat-earth-rocket-man-finally-blasts-off-in-homemade-rocket-to-prove-earth-is-flat/#675d85379b6f

Lol I remember reading about that guy.  "I know all about this "science" stuff, but it's not science." bahahahaha

I was planning to host a watch party for his original launch before it was cancelled, but I believe he did finally end up launching his rocket.

I didn't even know he launched just a couple hours away from me, sad I missed it! I actually drove right through there friday, so close to witnessing this wonderful piece of history.

Some people might have seen a rocket go up, but no way was he actually in it. He can't prove he was actually IN the rocket, can he? I bet he is more of an illusionist than a flat-earth believer. He has been very successful so far. Lots of attention on a fake rocket launch.

Using a conspiracy theory to prove a completely different conspiracy theory. Very clever.

Wait, I thought he had to bail/crash because he collided with an invisible UFO.

[nereo]

LOL

"I don’t believe in science.

I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust, but that’s not science, that’s just a formula.

There’s no difference between science and science fiction."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/03/27/flat-earth-rocket-man-finally-blasts-off-in-homemade-rocket-to-prove-earth-is-flat/#675d85379b6f

Lol I remember reading about that guy.  "I know all about this "science" stuff, but it's not science." bahahahaha

I was planning to host a watch party for his original launch before it was cancelled, but I believe he did finally end up launching his rocket.

I didn't even know he launched just a couple hours away from me, sad I missed it! I actually drove right through there friday, so close to witnessing this wonderful piece of history.

Some people might have seen a rocket go up, but no way was he actually in it. He can't prove he was actually IN the rocket, can he? I bet he is more of an illusionist than a flat-earth believer. He has been very successful so far. Lots of attention on a fake rocket launch.

Using a conspiracy theory to prove a completely different conspiracy theory. Very clever.

Wait, I thought he had to bail/crash because he collided with an invisible UFO.

maybe he hit the invisible ceiling we all live under that keeps our atmosphere from flying off into space.  You know, the one with stars and clouds projected onto it?

[dragoncar]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

Maybe the earth itself is flat, but SPACE is curved.  Yeah, thanks Einstein!

[GuitarStv]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

Maybe the earth itself is flat, but SPACE is curved.  Yeah, thanks Einstein!

No.  No curves exist, anywhere.  Ever.  Things that you think are curves are really just conglomerations of straight lines.

[2Birds1Stone]

I don't make friends with potatoes.

[Cromacster]

For the sake of argument, I just flew back from America to Japan. If the earth is flat, how did I get back? I wasn't awake the entire time, but I'm relatively certain I didn't cross the entirety of North America, the Atlantic Ocean, and Eurasia to get there.

The answer would be that you went in a circle.  Instead of a spheroid, flat-earthers claim that earth is a disk.  When you think you are flying in a straight line and going 'around the world' what's really happening (according to them) is that you are going in a circle, like around the rim of a dinner plate. In other words, your entire trip you were turning slightly in one direction.

yeah, it makes your head spin the more critically you think about it.

At the edge of the world is a teleportation zone that instantly teleports you to the opposite side of the map.

Maybe the earth itself is flat, but SPACE is curved.  Yeah, thanks Einstein!

No.  No curves exist, anywhere.  Ever.  Things that you think are curves are really just conglomerations of straight lines.

But a perfect circle does exist!

[GuitarStv]

You mean a myriagon.

[nereo]

No.  No curves exist, anywhere.  Ever.  Things that you think are curves are really just conglomerations of straight lines.

So no curves here?

https://goo.gl/images/LKcAK3

[radram]

No.  No curves exist, anywhere.  Ever.  Things that you think are curves are really just conglomerations of straight lines.

So no curves here?

https://goo.gl/images/LKcAK3

And my theory again returns. YES!

So you debunk 'x' only for it to lead to y and z and xx ... etc (until you get to xxx?). 

So all theories lead to pornography? Makes more sense to me now. I'm off to to "prove some theories" :)

[GuitarStv]

No.  No curves exist, anywhere.  Ever.  Things that you think are curves are really just conglomerations of straight lines.

So no curves here?

https://goo.gl/images/LKcAK3

Just lots of little lines.

https://mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/66538/how-do-i-draw-a-pair-of-buttocks

Plot3D[{
  -PDF[LogNormalDistribution[1, 1], (y + .3)^2 + x^2] E^(.8 (y + .7)^2),
  -PDF[LogNormalDistribution[1, 1], (y - .3)^2 + x^2] E^(.8 (y - .7)^2)
 },
 {x, -1.,1.4}, {y, -.9, .9},
 Filling -> Bottom,
 FillingStyle -> Opacity[1],
 PlotStyle -> {Brown, Brown},
 Lighting -> "Neutral",
 Boxed -> False,
 Axes -> False,
 Mesh -> None,
 PlotRange -> {Automatic, Automatic, {-.4, .3}}]

[scottish]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

[nereo]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

Somehow we're drawing buttocks with mathematical equations.  If this thread was ever *on* a track, it jumped a long time ago :-P

(thank for the link)

[EricL]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

Unfortunately by Adam’s own criteria nobody in the bubble can see it.  And after a brief experiment on Facebook, I’m convinced most people are doomed to stay there.

[Plina]

It amazes me the power that book has over people still.

It doesn't amaze me at all.  Do you think Jack and the Beanstalk or Tortoise and the Hare should fade away into history?  Should we abandon the story of magical Santa but not magical Jesus?  Despite the obviously silly magical components, these are stories passed down by generations of parents and incorporated into our culture.  They teach lessons about life, and provide a common frame of reference for people who want to live together in a cooperative society.  They offer hope and inspiration, and are very good at generating warm fuzzy feelings in both audiences of children and their adult storytellers.  Some people even base their entire moral foundation on these old stories, by carefully picking and choosing specific parts that are still culturally acceptable.  People love good stories, and the ones in the bible are antiques.  People love antiques, too.
[/quote]

My perception (from a non-US perspective) is that religion is loosing more and more of their power. If you look at my grandparents generation the priest is an important person and if you look at my generation born 50 years later we visit church basically when someone is getting married and for funerals. Also many schools end the school year in church. We are amazed over the american insertion of god everywhere.

I guess it all comes back to what you have energy to deal with. Can or do you want to ignore parts of your friends in your mind bisarre views. If i like them othervise AND they didn’t try to push their views on me I would probably try to change the subject as fast as possible.

[dragoncar]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

Somehow we're drawing buttocks with mathematical equations.  If this thread was ever *on* a track, it jumped a long time ago :-P

(thank for the link)

Luckily, it's not on a track.  It's on a shark. 

[partgypsy]

I will agree that we can all be reasonably sure the earth is not flat.

However, I would like to posit that I have a problem with people on the other extreme who insist that they know everything because science says so.

I think there's room for everyone's faith and beliefs because really, does it matter if the fossil is 1,000 years old or 100,000 years old?

Yes.

lol
Yes, my uncle is a geologist, and has done things like remap oil fields, and also has worked for oil companies locating oil. Accurate dating of fossils (which can range in millions of years) and understanding the stratification and kinds of rocks therein is kinda important. Like say if you like to drive cars.

[nereo]

I will agree that we can all be reasonably sure the earth is not flat.

However, I would like to posit that I have a problem with people on the other extreme who insist that they know everything because science says so.

I think there's room for everyone's faith and beliefs because really, does it matter if the fossil is 1,000 years old or 100,000 years old?

Does it matter in the daily lives of most people?  Not really.  But it does become important anytime policy and a natural resource interact. If we start believing that the carboniferous period was just a few thousand years ago (instead of a few hundred million) that has some big implications on how fast we are extracting the coal it produced. A degree or two change in temperature in a couple generations might seem imperceptible to most until you realize the rate of change is among the fastest the planet has ever experienced.

We literally have legislatures that do not believe humans can permanently alter ecosystems. Often they defend their beliefs by talking of the changes noted in the Bible which they believe actually happened and occurred within the last several thousand years.

[partgypsy]

If I was going to believe in something crazy, I'd rather believe in Bigfoot and Yetis.

[scottish]

Huh?   What's crazy about bigfoot and yeti?

[partgypsy]

Crazy my love for them.

[Kyle Schuant]

my uncle is a geologist, and has done things like remap oil fields, and also has worked for oil companies locating oil. Accurate dating of fossils (which can range in millions of years) and understanding the stratification and kinds of rocks therein is kinda important. Like say if you like to drive cars.

But let me guess... he's a climate change denialist? Lots of oilfield geologists are. I can't think why :)

We all have our scientific moments of "la la la I can't hear you!"

[partgypsy]

my uncle is a geologist, and has done things like remap oil fields, and also has worked for oil companies locating oil. Accurate dating of fossils (which can range in millions of years) and understanding the stratification and kinds of rocks therein is kinda important. Like say if you like to drive cars.

But let me guess... he's a climate change denialist? Lots of oilfield geologists are. I can't think why :)

We all have our scientific moments of "la la la I can't hear you!"

lol no, he's not. However he's the person who got me interested in gemstones, darn him! He had cool rocks (mostly fossils and  and also geodes) he would show us when we visited. He even had this board game we played as kids, which was about drilling for oil!  This is it!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Oil

[GuitarStv]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

Somehow we're drawing buttocks with mathematical equations.  If this thread was ever *on* a track, it jumped a long time ago :-P

(thank for the link)

Luckily, it's not on a track.  It's on a shark.

If drawing math butts is off topic, I don't want to be on topic.

[nereo]

Flat earth is a mass delusion.   Scott Adams explains it here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/2017/08/17/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble/

Unfortunately he uses Trump as a reference case.   My apologies for that, I don't mean to derail the thread any further.

Somehow we're drawing buttocks with mathematical equations.  If this thread was ever *on* a track, it jumped a long time ago :-P

(thank for the link)

Luckily, it's not on a track.  It's on a shark.

If drawing math butts is off topic, I don't want to be on topic.

I'll just point out that sharks are composed of straight lines.

[le-weekend]

I like what GuitarStv said about "I draw a line between beliefs about the unknowable (is there a God?) and the demonstrable (is the Earth round?)."

Some people here have made unassailable arguments for why science matters in terms of practical technology (such as transportation or healthcare).

My problem is when people think it's either science OR religion. In my mind, there's room for both. Origins of the universe? We will never know for sure. Everything we think is fact today? That stuff may be proven wrong someday. I guess I'm a fan of humility.

[sol]

Do you have humility about knowing the age of the earth?  About whether animals can talk?  Turning water into wine?  About a man dead and buried in a cave suddenly coming back to life?

If these things seen plausibly realistic to you, then believing the earth is flat isn't much of a step.

I don't find it "unknowable" that an invisible man with a flowing white beard who lives in the sky sent his only son to the middle east to die a horrible death thousands of years ago so that dead babies wouldn't have to burn in hell.  That story, as ancient and beautiful and terrifying as it is, is not a literal record of historical facts.  Claims about the "unknowable" need to be disentangled from the fanciful storytelling we use to talk about the big existential questions.