Author Topic: Survivalism On A Budget  (Read 20061 times)

merrell33

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Survivalism On A Budget
« on: April 06, 2014, 07:55:30 AM »
Okay guys and girls.  Any preppers on these forums?  Just wondering if there are any Mustachians out there who are currently building or have built a bail-out-bag on a budget (BOBOAB?)  It's quite easy to get whipped up into a frenzy reading these survivalist forums and thinking about all the things I DON'T have for surviving apparently anything.  Along with having a paranoid state of mind, it's very easy to spend money on things that you think you MIGHT need when the SHTF (preppers love acronyms).  What have you guys done to prepare for natural or man made disasters without going broke/crazy?  Moderators, if this thread belongs in another category, please move it.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 08:19:21 AM »
A little bit of a prepper, but we have tried to incorporate it into our early retirement plans so it is not a drain on the budget and is actually a way of living.

We have a diversified portfolio consisting of gold/silver, international stocks, domestic stocks, emerging markets, and a decent chunk of cash or cash like vehicles (CDs, I-bonds).  We have very little in long term bonds.

So, global financial meltdown we will probably be ok at least compared to 98% of the population.

We have plenty of guns and ammo, just for personal protection and hunting.

We have a bug out vehicle, which we built ourselves.  It actually will be our only home in 2 years and is nearly off grid (1500 watts solar, 60 gallons propane, 100 gallons diesel, 100 gallons water plus RO water maker, carries two dual sport motorcycles for exploration.  We can boondock in it for several months with no resupply if we are near any type of non-radioactive water (even salt water is ok).

I actually don't think anything bad will happen but I do like being offgrid.  I think the people who are 100% gold and build a 3 foot thick blast door on a concrete bunker are a bit wacky.

merrell33

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 08:53:59 AM »
A little bit of a prepper, but we have tried to incorporate it into our early retirement plans so it is not a drain on the budget and is actually a way of living.

We have a diversified portfolio consisting of gold/silver, international stocks, domestic stocks, emerging markets, and a decent chunk of cash or cash like vehicles (CDs, I-bonds).  We have very little in long term bonds.

So, global financial meltdown we will probably be ok at least compared to 98% of the population.

We have plenty of guns and ammo, just for personal protection and hunting.

We have a bug out vehicle, which we built ourselves.  It actually will be our only home in 2 years and is nearly off grid (1500 watts solar, 60 gallons propane, 100 gallons diesel, 100 gallons water plus RO water maker, carries two dual sport motorcycles for exploration.  We can boondock in it for several months with no resupply if we are near any type of non-radioactive water (even salt water is ok).

I actually don't think anything bad will happen but I do like being offgrid.  I think the people who are 100% gold and build a 3 foot thick blast door on a concrete bunker are a bit wacky.

Damn.  I'm impressed.  So an RV with a solar array, propane, diesel and all the bells and whistles?  That is lightyears ahead of me!

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
Damn.  I'm impressed.  So an RV with a solar array, propane, diesel and all the bells and whistles?  That is lightyears ahead of me!

Sort of an RV.  It is a flatbed truck with a removable flatbed camper we constructed out of steel and aluminum.  This is what it will look like when finished (working on the interior of the camper now):


Prairie Stash

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 09:07:20 AM »
I go camping, its a fun hobby (even in winter). Like most things it's about having skills, not tools. Being Mustachian is fine, since I don't need much I don't spend much.

I haven't found a great solution to ammo. The hard part isn't surviving nature, it's surviving all the crazy people.

fantabulous

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 12:22:22 PM »
Not sure if I'd count myself in the prepper category or not. I'm definitely not prepared for being snowed in for weeks, as an example. I was certainly on a prepper kick for a while once, although I didn't actually buy all that many things. However, it got me thinking about what's reasonable to be prepared for and what's simply too much for me.

A somewhat crude comparison, but I think it illustrates my happy medium of preparedness. I think it's reasonable to have enough supplies to handle being stranded in my car for a night during the winter, or handling a blizzard and power outage at home. I'm not at all worried about Obama personally coming and stealing my food to bail out the banks with, and don't have a stockpile of MREs and such in an underground bunker.  I still don't have an official bug out/get home bag per se, and just keep a small first aid kit and multi tool in my work bag.

Yes, I realize one can be much more prepared than I am without being a nutter. I just don't ever see myself getting anywhere close to "backup shotgun" level, and I'm fine with that. Regarding bug out/get home bags specifically, think about your more likely situations to prepare for rather than a prop bag for The Walking Dead. If you want to build up from there afterwards, great.

tariskat

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2014, 02:23:42 PM »
I do have a bug-out-bag that I built while I was going through my hunting / firearms safety training.  Since I don't think it's an immediate need, I read through a couple books (Cody Lundin is very funny and useful) and did a lot of hunting on Amazon / REI / etc for things I wanted.  I had a list of things on my 'save for later' Amazon list I wanted, and when I felt the mood I would go virtually shopping for two or three of the things, add to cart, and then let it sit for a week or two until I could look through it again, do one last price search, and pull the trigger.  I spread out my purchases over many months, and still have a few things in my to-get list or on CamelCamelCamel for price watching.  Some things I anticipate picking up at our big annual neighborhood garage sale this spring, some are things you'd already have around (garbage bags, gallon ziplocs) and some I've had for years due to lots of camping.

Some things I got a couple of and keep in my car, too, like an emergency kit and those super-reflective blankets.  Mostly, here, I only have to think about shelter-in-place (tornadoes and power outages), but there are remote chances of needing to leave that I amuse myself by planning for.

I have a smaller BOB for important documents / cash backup that I can throw in my bigger bag, in case we needed to leave our house (fire or something crazy).

Just keep in mind that you really need to stay warm, dry, and watered for most situations, just for a couple days (unless being snowed in for weeks is a possibility).

dcheesi

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 02:50:00 PM »
I went through a "phase" that involved packing a BOB for the car and buying some emergency supplies for the house.  No ammo though, all I have are some knives and a "tactical shovel" lol.

Truth be told, I'm not that much of an outdoorsman, so I doubt I would last long in a true collapse. But it was fun to mess around with all that stuff, and at least I'm prepared for a short term disruption due to natural disaster, etc.

GuitarStv

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 07:30:16 AM »
No.  Prepping typically strikes me as silly people buying silly things to pretend to themselves that they'll be able to survive *insert unlikely scenario here*.

Without doing any kind of prepping/survivalist silliness:
- We have some camping gear in our house (can survive outdoors if needed).
- We have bicycles (mobility without gas).
- We have a propane BBQ and typically keep the tank full (can cook with no power).
- We keep our pantry well stocked (probably enough food to live off of for a month).
- We have three toilets and a water heater that can be tapped (that's a lot of potable emergency water on hand).
- We have a wood burning fireplace in our house (although we never use it, it could heat the house).
- We have solar panels on our house (can generate power).
- I've gone camping many times, and have some basic survival training.

^ If world becomes so screwed up that the above can't keep me alive for a few weeks until things are sorted out, I don't want to live in the resulting survivalist hell-scape that it has become.  (In case of zombie apocalypse my goal is to get bitten as soon as possible and enjoy the easy access to brains that the early zombies will have.)

matchewed

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 07:40:30 AM »
With the shear number of things that can be used (mostly highlighted by GuitarStv) I would value resourcefulness and skills over having a BOB at every conceivable location I'd need it.

jba302

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 07:42:49 AM »
Agree with Guitar, although did give it a bit of thought at one point most of our camping gear/skills qualifies as short-term prepper - gravity water filter, magnesium bar for lighting fires (harder to use than I originally thought), a couple hatchets, etc. I make the wife keep her full snow gear in the trunk during the winter, but I think that's just good common sense in MN. Some of the stuff we do to phase out reliance on food chains, like a garden, kind of qualifies but it's not the minset of "GOVNMENT GONA CRASH".

It's kind of funny that the idea of prepper now I would call "shit my grandpa did as a kid just because that was how things were."

dcheesi

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2014, 08:03:01 AM »
No.  Prepping typically strikes me as silly people buying silly things to pretend to themselves that they'll be able to survive *insert unlikely scenario here*.

Without doing any kind of prepping/survivalist silliness:
- We have some camping gear in our house (can survive outdoors if needed).
- We have bicycles (mobility without gas).
- We have a propane BBQ and typically keep the tank full (can cook with no power).
- We keep our pantry well stocked (probably enough food to live off of for a month).
- We have three toilets and a water heater that can be tapped (that's a lot of potable emergency water on hand).
- We have a wood burning fireplace in our house (although we never use it, it could heat the house).
- We have solar panels on our house (can generate power).
- I've gone camping many times, and have some basic survival training.

^ If world becomes so screwed up that the above can't keep me alive for a few weeks until things are sorted out, I don't want to live in the resulting survivalist hell-scape that it has become.  (In case of zombie apocalypse my goal is to get bitten as soon as possible and enjoy the easy access to brains that the early zombies will have.)
Yeah, I found that between camping and some "cool gadgets" I had collected over the years, I already had most of the stuff that was recommended for a BoB. So it was more a matter of organizing them in one place (which also makes packing for camping trips a snap).

Cassie

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 09:12:36 PM »
i am 60 & my  uncle when I was a kid had an underground bunker just in case-he never needed it.  Just seems silly to me.

TrMama

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 11:56:38 AM »
Meh. I'm with GuitarStv. I think the most important part of being a prepper is making sure your tinfoil hat is on straight.

I live on an island that's at risk for a massive earthquake and/or tsunamis. We have some bottled water in the garage, I know how to turn off the gas supply and we have camping gear. In the event of major earthquake/tsunami I hope that my immediate family is either all killed instantly or we all survive. The details of what happens after are just details.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2014, 12:09:10 PM »
I figure about once every 100 years prepping really does pay off.  WWII, American Civil War, hmmm, seems to be war oriented...

Rural

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 07:31:22 AM »
I've never understood the emphasis on the bug out bag myself. Seems to me, in a catastrophe situation, if you need to travel you're already at such a disadvantage that you're likely not going to make it.

jba302

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 07:53:22 AM »
Because of this thread, I tried using a new knife I got with the ferro rod, my first scandi grind. On the plus side, I am getting good at making feather sticks which almost explode into flames which will be nice for camping. However, the edges are a little rounded on the spine, which is comfortable but throws zero spark. And I have no guns. So I'm significantly less prepared than I originally suggested.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 08:11:00 AM »
I've never understood the emphasis on the bug out bag myself. Seems to me, in a catastrophe situation, if you need to travel you're already at such a disadvantage that you're likely not going to make it.

Depends on the catastrophe and your bug out bag.

Getting out of eastern Europe after WWII was made a lot easier if your bug out bag contained gold and silver or vodka to bribe Russian border guards.   Some of those who sheltered in place ended up in Siberia.

dcheesi

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2014, 09:14:47 AM »
I've never understood the emphasis on the bug out bag myself. Seems to me, in a catastrophe situation, if you need to travel you're already at such a disadvantage that you're likely not going to make it.
I keep mine in the car, so it doubles as an emergency kit in case I go off in a ditch somewhere (I travel in the country a fair amount).

And you never know where you'll be when something happens. One time I went out to lunch with some coworkers, and when we tried to get back, nearly every bridge in town was flooded out. It happened that fast! Same thing goes for tornadoes, etc. Your house with all its provisions may be off limits, or simply gone, just when you need them most.

JohnGalt

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 11:08:01 AM »
I've never really gotten the prepper mentality either... However - living off grid, homesteading, etc has interested me for a while.  More for the experience (ie Walden) than anything else. 

AJ

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 12:40:45 PM »
I think a lot of people write off prepping because they think it is only intended to prepare for a zombie apocalypse or some other dystopian future, but it's not just that. There are smaller kinds of events that are very much within the realm of possibility/probability that wouldn't cause a total collapse of society, but that would be very unpleasant and possibly dangerous if unprepared for. At a bare minimum, everyone should have 72 hours of emergency water.

We try to add prepping items that also benefit us in other ways. For example:
  • We started cooking with dried beans rather than canned because they are easy to stock up on and store, plus they're healthy, plus they are cheap and so help with FI. We now buy all grains and legumes in 25lb bags and keep them in food grade buckets with gamma lids. Win-win-win for prepping-health-finances
  • I'm getting in shape via running. It's good for health, it's nearly free, and in an emergency it would help me run to get help.
  • I'm slowly building up my backyard and front yard gardens with the goal of eventually growing all my family's vegetables. I know I can't provide all our food on a suburban plot, but with the stock of dried beans/grains and the ability to provide nearly-free vegetables, we're more resilient. Plus it's a cheap hobby, plus it offsets our grocery budget.
  • We started home-brewing for the same reasons as above.
  • I have a wish-list of prepping items in my Amazon cart, and throw them in when I need an extra item to get to the Free Shipping level. Recent purchases include 72 hour water pack for the car, emergency blankets to keep in the car, and a new water bath canner after ours was stolen (!).
  • We keep a very small portion of our savings in silver bouillon and cash on hand (<1%). Just enough that we would be grateful to have it in an emergency, but not enough to make any significant dent in our overall return.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 12:59:29 PM »

We keep a very small portion of our savings in silver bouillon


I haven't tried those, do they come in cubes like the chicken and beef?  :-)

AJ

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 01:07:48 PM »

We keep a very small portion of our savings in silver bouillon


I haven't tried those, do they come in cubes like the chicken and beef?  :-)

Ha! Dang autocorrect. Mmmm...soup... :)

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 07:08:37 AM »
Like a lot of people here, I'm not interested in prepping per se, but I want to learn camping, gardening, etc. Homesteading appeals to me though my yard is way too small to do much right now.

If shit really hits the fan, I'm a 15 minute bike ride away from my sister's, and they're halfway to a full-on bunker there. My brother-in-law has more guns and ammo than he can physically carry.

My Dad's side of the family has also specifically held onto the family farm, leasing it out currently, just in case something happened and we had to go back to a subsistence lifestyle. Getting there would require going through or around Chicago, so I'm not sure how realistic that is, but 200 acres of arable land right next to a lake is a nice ace in the hole.

dcheesi

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2014, 09:22:21 AM »
My Dad's side of the family has also specifically held onto the family farm, leasing it out currently, just in case something happened and we had to go back to a subsistence lifestyle. Getting there would require going through or around Chicago, so I'm not sure how realistic that is, but 200 acres of arable land right next to a lake is a nice ace in the hole.
I wouldn't worry about the location specifically. If things are so bad that you have to fight your way through Chicago, a piece of paper saying you own that plot of land isn't going to mean a whole lot anyway. OTOH if it's more of a slow decline, a chunk of land like that might be useful.

golfer44

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2014, 09:28:00 AM »
I love when people devote most of their resources to that which has the smallest chance of happening (doomsday), and the least amount of resources to that which has the greatest possibility of happening (getting old).

GuitarStv

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2014, 09:51:52 AM »
Getting old and dying is a lot scarier than zombies.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2014, 10:24:12 AM »
I love when people devote most of their resources to that which has the smallest chance of happening (doomsday), and the least amount of resources to that which has the greatest possibility of happening (getting old).

It is two schools of people.  Group A doesn't have very much and secretly wants a doomsday event to bring everyone else down to their level (actually lower since they will be the new kings with their preps)

Group B actually has more than enough and wants to protect it.

merrell33

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2014, 07:46:58 PM »
Well, most of the responses are about what I had imagined.  I guess most people would realistically just have enough to survive, at most, a few weeks.  And the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it would be to think that surviving nuclear fallout and financial collapse in a bunker is "living.". I try to make sure I keep what little skills I have sharp, but it's easy to get crazy with it.

KBecks

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2014, 07:57:12 PM »
I've been interested in survival planning, I started to get worried about economic collapse, war, all kinds of disaster.  It has been some interesting reading and I have read some blogs from people who lived in Argentina and Bosnia through very hard times.  These things have happened in other countries, and it has been interesting to learn about.

That said, after some thought, I choose to be optimistic about our future.  Overall, I believe in America and Americans and in peace and goodness.

But at the same time, I have taken an interest in building up a pantry, not necessarily a huge "survival" pantry, but a good pantry of food and water that would be useful for us through economic hardship or worse.  I am learning to garden and to can.  i don't think that w'ere going to tent it if trouble strikes, but our family goes camping.  I would like to get in better / stronger / faster physical shape, but I have not put that into practice yet.

I will have three teenagers, for sure, in the future, so food and having good food around and growing food are all good things. 

I'm also investing with caution, with an understanding that the markets could get wild and some "prep" for that. 

It is more likely that things will be good in the future than bad.  I do believe in having some pantry and some skills and to be frugal and wise to be able to get by if things start to get bad.  We have not even thought about bugging out or having a compound, etc.    Well I thought about that  -- a compound-slash-retirement retreat.   I tend to think if things get bad it might be in my children's adulthood.  That said, I am motivated to build and conserve wealth to give them some security and flexibility and valuable resources for the future if things get difficult.

KBecks

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 07:58:37 PM »
We do not have much for guns or ammo.  But we will have food.  Maybe we will get guns/ammo/etc. eventually.  But right now I want to think and live with positive energy. :)

chicagomeg

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 10:08:18 PM »
The extent of my prepping is an Amazon wish list of misc supplies which comes to $600. I added it all to camelcamelcamel and buy things if the price drops a nice amount. Guess I'm screwed if anything happens before everything goes on sale. Lots of it will be useful for our camping habit as well.

brewer12345

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 11:38:15 PM »
I love when people devote most of their resources to that which has the smallest chance of happening (doomsday), and the least amount of resources to that which has the greatest possibility of happening (getting old).

It is two schools of people.  Group A doesn't have very much and secretly wants a doomsday event to bring everyone else down to their level (actually lower since they will be the new kings with their preps)

Group B actually has more than enough and wants to protect it.

Sounds about right.  I think there is also a Group C, which is most of what is on the "Doomsday Preppers" series: people who were obviously traumatized by something and try to regain control over their lives/minds via prepping.  I think this crowd is the saddest.

They all seem to ignore the fact that no man is an island.  If everything goes pear-shaped for the duration, we are all hosed.

dcheesi

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2014, 12:13:52 AM »
Yeah, my brother used to work with some serious peppers. One guy cashed out his retirement fund(!) to buy a farm and stock it with tons of guns & ammo. Based on recommendations from other preppers, his goal was to have five rounds of ammo for every man, woman, & child in the surrounding counties?!

Chances are that the poor fool will be retiring in poverty and trying to run a farm in his old age, with a huge pile of ammo sitting useless in his basement. And even if his  apocalypse fantasy did happen, how is he going to use all that ammo anyway? One guy can only fire off so many rounds at a time, regardless of the number of guns in his arsenal.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 12:17:10 AM by dcheesi »

golfer44

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2014, 05:54:51 AM »
his goal was to have five rounds of ammo for every man, woman, & child in the surrounding counties?!

I'll take "Morbid" for 500

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 07:06:54 AM »
I will say that I am glad for the few guns I do have.  Last night there was a man and woman parked next to our house (a little side spot jointly owned by our subdivision).  He was lighting firecrackers and throwing them toward our yard/house and they were popping about 10 feet from our window.  We went outside and asked them to stop, noticing that the man looked pretty scraggly.  He replied "it is only going to get worse" ? wth does that mean?

With the police being 15 to 30 minutes away, I was rather glad that I have a 9mm and 12 gauge.  You never know when some nutter will leave and get liquid courage and come back (although we were very polite).

jordanread

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 09:32:42 AM »
I've had a Zombie plan since I was 15, and it's only evolved to be more realistic since then. I guess you could say that I have plans. :-)

Also just posting to follow the thread.

jba302

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 02:25:11 PM »
Yeah, my brother used to work with some serious peppers. One guy cashed out his retirement fund(!) to buy a farm and stock it with tons of guns & ammo. Based on recommendations from other preppers, his goal was to have five rounds of ammo for every man, woman, & child in the surrounding counties?!

Chances are that the poor fool will be retiring in poverty and trying to run a farm in his old age, with a huge pile of ammo sitting useless in his basement. And even if his  apocalypse fantasy did happen, how is he going to use all that ammo anyway? One guy can only fire off so many rounds at a time, regardless of the number of guns in his arsenal.

You know, the farm idea ain't too bad if you can handle it. I mean in the context of that story it's absolutely batshit crazy, but a 50 acre hobby farm with a couple cows,pigs, sheep and chickens... hell that's one of my retirement dreams.

BlueMR2

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2014, 07:47:13 AM »
We do not have much for guns or ammo.  But we will have food.  Maybe we will get guns/ammo/etc. eventually.  But right now I want to think and live with positive energy. :)

I'm thinking that if the zombie apocalypse happens, you won't keep your food very long without guns...  Might want to bump that up on the prepping priority list.  :-)

Leisured

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2014, 07:23:39 AM »

As Roland of Gilead pointed out....
'Getting out of eastern Europe after WWII was made a lot easier if your bug out bag contained gold and silver or vodka to bribe Russian border guards.   Some of those who sheltered in place ended up in Siberia.'
...Depends what part of the world you live in. 'Roland' is a good pseudonym too.

as Brewer12345 pointed out....
'They all seem to ignore the fact that no man is an island.  If everything goes pear-shaped for the duration, we are all hosed.'
...I am a follower of Thomas Hobbes, who wrote the political book 'Leviathan', mid seventeenth century, in which he famously declared that in the absence of government, 'life is nasty, brutish and short'. 

The best 'prepping' is orderly government.








zataks

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2014, 08:13:06 AM »

We have a bug out vehicle, which we built ourselves.  It actually will be our only home in 2 years and is nearly off grid (1500 watts solar, 60 gallons propane, 100 gallons diesel, 100 gallons water plus RO water maker, carries two dual sport motorcycles for exploration.  We can boondock in it for several months with no resupply if we are near any type of non-radioactive water (even salt water is ok).

I'm always curious when people talk about this.  Yesterday I was digging into RO vessels in a 2.67MGD, two stage RO train (of three total on site) designed for brackish water purification with a salts rejection of 97% and 85% recovery.  Problem was it's been running high and gaining pressure very quickly; 190psi when it should be about 160psi.  And this is brackish water that is chemically pre-treated then passed through 0.1 micro filtration. 
What sort of system are you running and what sort of pumping mechanisms do you have in place with that power supply that will allow you to purify salt water?  Being incredibly strong, the bonds in salt-water require hundreds (not just one or two, more like 5+) of psi to break. 
What are you doing for carbonic acid removal?  How are you pH balancing? 

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2014, 03:29:47 PM »

We have a bug out vehicle, which we built ourselves.  It actually will be our only home in 2 years and is nearly off grid (1500 watts solar, 60 gallons propane, 100 gallons diesel, 100 gallons water plus RO water maker, carries two dual sport motorcycles for exploration.  We can boondock in it for several months with no resupply if we are near any type of non-radioactive water (even salt water is ok).

I'm always curious when people talk about this.  Yesterday I was digging into RO vessels in a 2.67MGD, two stage RO train (of three total on site) designed for brackish water purification with a salts rejection of 97% and 85% recovery.  Problem was it's been running high and gaining pressure very quickly; 190psi when it should be about 160psi.  And this is brackish water that is chemically pre-treated then passed through 0.1 micro filtration. 
What sort of system are you running and what sort of pumping mechanisms do you have in place with that power supply that will allow you to purify salt water?  Being incredibly strong, the bonds in salt-water require hundreds (not just one or two, more like 5+) of psi to break. 
What are you doing for carbonic acid removal?  How are you pH balancing?

I have not bought the RO yet but I was going to use this model:

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|51|2234217|2243570&id=1834918

$7K though.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 03:32:05 PM by Roland of Gilead »

zataks

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2014, 06:24:32 PM »
Yea, that would do it.  Stand alone, package system at 6gph, very cool.

LalsConstant

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2014, 01:08:04 PM »
I’m sort of a “prepper lite”.

I keep a small survival kit in my work bag: black plastic garbage bag, water treatment filters, distress whistle, couple of freezer bags, pen and paper, tweezers, duct tape, a bandanna, compass, small multitool, nail clippers, a couple blocks of Wetfire and a tealight candle, couple more odds and ends like that but you get the idea.

I keep a small backpack at my desk.  It’s mostly safety equipment (headlamp, goggles, dust mask, another bandanna, gloves) and some rescue tools in case something happens to the building.  I used to have a reflective vest in there too, not sure if that’s still in or not.  It’s got a few general purpose things in it like you might take camping but it’s got more urban disaster oriented tools in it, like wrenches to open and close sillcock valves or a fire hydrant (though I have some serious doubts you’d actually open a hydrant with that particular tool, but it’s a glassbreaker so why not).

I keep a handful of things like spare socks and shoes in my desk and in my vehicle (which also has rain gear in it).  First aid kits in the desk backpack and in the vehicle.  Vehicle of course has my tool box.

I’m still working on my bag at home, it’s intended for temporarily abandoning my domicile in case the authorities make us leave.   I don’t want some massive kit that looks like I’m going to fight a war either, I want something I can lug 30 miles and not notice it so much, I might have to hop the fence around the property if the gate doesn’t work because the power is out. It’s a tricky one because I want to take my personal electronics if that happens, but I use those every day so it’s hard to put them in a bag.  I’m going for half of it being a minimalist “10 Cs” based kit with a couple of “urban comfort” items (flashlight and a pair of gloves namely) and the other half being a comfortable change of clothes and basically a tiny overnight bag and really I need some cash for it, not a ton, just enough for maybe a taxi ride, a one night hotel stay and a couple of meals.

I keep rice, beans and lentils, and some staple foods like flour, etc. around and a few canned goods too.  Without any power or ability to cook at all I could eat for a week, longer than that if I have electricity or fire.  Twelve gallons or so fresh water too.

Hand crank radios, spare batteries, some unscented undyed bleach, 5 gallon buckets with lids, candles, plastic sheeting, stuff like that.  I don’t have tons and tons of it but I have it.  One reason I haven’t tried to rid myself of all my paper books is I might have to sit in my dark apartment for a week listening to the radio, eating room temperature wet mushy legumes and reading to not go out of my mind.

I don’t have large stores, it’s just the shelves in my utility room and pantry.

Disruption of food supply is one I worry about in an urban area and it just depends on the reason how well prepared I actually am.  If I have power but not food, I am in much better shape.  I can still eat something for about a week without power but for morale if nothing else I do have a small propane stove.

The thing is, the last time I moved, I stopped grocery shopping except for some produce and meat, and I ate the food in my cabinets for 3.5 weeks.  I run a little leaner now, probably could only do 2 weeks now, but still.  It’s not THAT hard to have a reserve of food even if you don’t have a pallet of freeze dried pellets around.

If the situation permits I can load up a trailer and be gone with a lot of my stuff pretty fast, but if anything serious happens here the highways clog up super fast and no one in the city proper is going anywhere.  When the hurricanes hit and the traffic comes this way, it’s perfect gridlock.

I’m not trying to survive the extinction event or anything like that, I’m thinking more like fires, riots (this is patently realistic for me, I work in a very politically sensitive area where large protests and demonstrations go on), blackouts, grocery trucks not coming in for a week, etc.  I figure most realistic problems will go away in 72 hours, so I strive to make it for a week.  I figure after a week, something is bound to change for better or worse.

Of course a few self-defense items here and there, I keep a variety of options around for the legal climate I’m operating in.  My best weapon is the one between my ears of course but you never know, I’m pretty good at avoiding trouble in public but I’ve had some real sketchy characters bother me in not so legal ways before.

I’d love to have a proper setup, like geothermal or solar energy, a workshop, maybe gardening etc. some day but that’s a pipe dream for now.  I don’t know how hardcore I’d really be though, permaculture looks like a lot of damn work.  A proper emergency escape vehicle would be nice too but again pipe dream territory for me.

Sometimes when I’ m having a really bad day I pray for the zombies to rise and start eating brains.

As far as keeping it on a budget, the whole point of prepping is that you lazily acquire these things on the cheap or even free while the world is still spinning.  I think if you go out and spend a ton of cash you’re doing it wrong.  It’s little things, a box of garbage bags here, a second hand radio there, and so on.  The danger of having this giant pile of crap you’ll never use is too high otherwise.

Of course you have to be careful, like I’ve never used my distress whistle for its intended purpose.  If I’m ever caught in a building trying to let the fire department know where I am though, that $0.75 will have been worth it.  But the whistle is very small, unbreakable, constantly within reach, etc. 

Plus I can justify this item anyway.  It’s a nice loud whistle, I use it at the company picnic.  I just have to remember to put it back!

AJ

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2014, 01:23:18 PM »
If I’m ever caught in a building trying to let the fire department know where I am though, that $0.75 will have been worth it.

After reading this, I just added a pack of whistles to my amazon wish list. This had never occurred to me before. Thanks!

LalsConstant

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2014, 01:37:17 PM »
I've been interested in survival planning, I started to get worried about economic collapse, war, all kinds of disaster.  It has been some interesting reading and I have read some blogs from people who lived in Argentina and Bosnia through very hard times.  These things have happened in other countries, and it has been interesting to learn about.

I'm there with you, but one thing I've noticed is I can always see factors in those situations, as I understand them better, that aren't present in the modern day US or most western nations I can think of.

For example a lot of people talk about hyperinflation, but that seems to generally happen only after you lose a war, or you have at least a decade of the state owning all the stores and businesses.  If either of those things happen you've Problems with a capital Pro.

I think the problem is, you will go insane trying to pre-emptively guess this all.  Seriously.  I'm not a very creative person and even I can "outwit" any possible plan I can think of short of fantastic plans like going to live on the moon or something equally silly.  In other words, there's always some reason why whatever I do "wouldn't work".

You'll go crazy like that.  You have to step back and say to yourself "Self, I have to have some serenity and let things go.  I will stop planning for alien invasions."

Yeah I think some bad things are going to happen, economically speaking.  But I also think it's darn likely whatever happens, some vestige of society will keep chugging on.

If nothing else, whatever happens, even if you didn't prepare correctly for it, if you live your life on less than your means and are used to budgeting resources, you are already two steps ahead of the problem: you have at least some means however humble of making a life adjustment, and you're more hedonically adapted.

There's a story I like to recall every time discussions of economic collapse come up.  Without a doubt the most devastating SHTF economic collapse that ever happened in the US of A was the Great Depression.

My grandparents and parents used to tell me a story about a local (to them) family that was very prominent and wealthy when my parents were small children.  The story goes that this family which was so rich and prestigious were actually poor sharecroppers a scant 20 years ago.

The poor farmer it seems was in the habit of saving one day's worth of wages every month, cash, buried or hidden somewhere apparently.  He'd been doing this for years, but of course it still wasn't a lot.  My grandmother claimed it was nickels and pennies in a coffee can or something like that.

Anyway the Depression saw a lot of farms in the area start to go belly up all at once, and the farmland went up for sale.  Of course there's lots of land and no one to buy it, so the price plummeted.

Being a farmer familiar with the area, he knew several plots of land were at a screaming bargain price, and that in a regular economy he could turn good profits with them, so he spent his meager savings gobbling up as much as he could buy.  I forget the numbers they threw out but apparently the land got as cheap as a quarter an acre or less.

This had two effects.  One, his family ate very well from that point forward.  He actually started to make more money during the depression than he had before the depression.  The reason my grandparents knew these people was they used to get food from them for the winter.  Two, the Depression ended eventually.  When it did, the value of his farm soared and so did his income, and before long this man owned half the farms in the county.  He died sometime in the 1970s absolutely filthy rich.

The point isn't that anyone can recreate these circumstances.  The point is that for all we know, having any amount of money saved at all may be a fantastic opportunity even if the future is dismal and bleak.

LalsConstant

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2014, 02:19:07 PM »
If I’m ever caught in a building trying to let the fire department know where I am though, that $0.75 will have been worth it.

After reading this, I just added a pack of whistles to my amazon wish list. This had never occurred to me before. Thanks!

Glad someone got some use out of my nonsense.  XD

Be sure to get a whistle that doesn't use a pea, the standard "good" whistle is the Fox 40, which I think are around $3 a pop now, but there are similar designs that are just as good for less.  The ITW Whistle is another good one that is usually less expensive than the Fox 40.

Basic old school whistles are still okay, there's just some concern if the pea dries out or gets lost or whatever it won't function when you need it.

There's also some fancy titanium ones floating around out there but that's $$$ for something that doesn't need to be, the plastic ones do just fine.

A lot of people deride the whistle as a survival aid (the "rape whistle" jokes, if you don't know don't ask they're in very poor taste), but the truth is I learned about whistles as a survival item when I was just a kid and I learned about them from old farts.  People seem to think the whistlebearer believes the noisemaker itself will somehow prevent a tragedy, and I'm not sure why people think everyone's so stupid sometimes.

I've always figured in a disaster where you're trying to coordinate a group of people it could be pretty useful.  I can remember one time when I was a kid the power went out for a few hours in a very wide area and the police actually asked for volunteers to manually direct traffic at some intersections.  My dad had to borrow my whitle, that was funny to me at the time.

People have told me in the past "I can just yell" but they seem to miss the point that the whistle is for signalling distress or attention in a situation where you have probably lost the strength to yell or have yelled yourself hoarse.  They're also great for kids who often have a hard time getting adults to pay attention to them.

I don't carry it on my person usually, but I stick them in bags, drawers, etc. or tie them to other items I'd grab in an emergency.

3 short sharp tweets in immediate succession = universal distress signal, SAR types, police, rescue workers, etc. ought to know that signal.

Whistle + signal mirror is a good combination at least in daylight.  You can be heard and seen much more easily without needing batteries.  I'm not suggesting this replace a radio beacon for serious outdoor enthusiasts, rather that it's flat, tiny and light for someone who is just going to shove this stuff into a nook for a rainy day.

brewer12345

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2014, 06:53:19 PM »
On the bad days, I always figured the brain-eating zombies would die of starvation.

I figure a shotgun loaded with buckshot and a week's worth of food an water were the limit of worthwhile prepping.

GuitarStv

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2014, 06:48:27 AM »
Disruption of food supply is one I worry about in an urban area and it just depends on the reason how well prepared I actually am.

In a real survival situation, there are tremendous amounts of food readily walking around on two legs in cities.  All you have to do is chase them down.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Survivalism On A Budget
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2014, 06:23:01 PM »
Disruption of food supply is one I worry about in an urban area and it just depends on the reason how well prepared I actually am.

In a real survival situation, there are tremendous amounts of food readily walking around on two legs in cities.  All you have to do is chase them down.

Yay, creepy Internet comment win of the day!