Master negotiator trump abandons pharma-negotiations, drives to Canada

[scottish]

What else is there to say?   The prez has found it too hard to negotiate for drug prices, so he's sending caravans of bad people to come and get them in Canada...     

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-plan-drugs-canada-1.5231405

[nereo]

When I first heard about this, I thought it must be an article from The Onion.
Rather than address the cost of drug prices here an acceptable 'solution' is to encourage more people to go abroad for their meds?

Now that I've learned more I'm pretty certain this will go no where.  To meet the FDA's requirements will take each drug several years of review.  The pharma industry will fight this, nad then give a ton of money to mostly GOP candidates. US companies stand to lose profits, and it's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer. It also opens the door for really bad things to happen, like fake meds being passed off for the real thing.

[Kris]

When I first heard about this, I thought it must be an article from The Onion.
Rather than address the cost of drug prices here an acceptable 'solution' is to encourage more people to go abroad for their meds?

Now that I've learned more I'm pretty certain this will go no where.  To meet the FDA's requirements will take each drug several years of review.  The pharma industry will fight this, nad then give a ton of money to mostly GOP candidates. US companies stand to lose profits, and it's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer. It also opens the door for really bad things to happen, like fake meds being passed off for the real thing.

To horrible socialist hellhole Canada, no less.

[pecunia]

When I first heard about this, I thought it must be an article from The Onion.
Rather than address the cost of drug prices here an acceptable 'solution' is to encourage more people to go abroad for their meds?

Now that I've learned more I'm pretty certain this will go no where.  To meet the FDA's requirements will take each drug several years of review.  The pharma industry will fight this, nad then give a ton of money to mostly GOP candidates. US companies stand to lose profits, and it's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer. It also opens the door for really bad things to happen, like fake meds being passed off for the real thing.

If people have a prescription for their drugs.  Normally, those drugs would be obtained in the USA.  Won't they be getting the same drugs from Canadian drug suppliers?  Do you really think there will be fake drugs sold?  Are there fake drugs currently being sold to the Canadians?

It's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer.  Right!  Things are so clear and certain now.

Good for Trump.  If a system doesn't work, work around it.

[Kris]

When I first heard about this, I thought it must be an article from The Onion.
Rather than address the cost of drug prices here an acceptable 'solution' is to encourage more people to go abroad for their meds?

Now that I've learned more I'm pretty certain this will go no where.  To meet the FDA's requirements will take each drug several years of review.  The pharma industry will fight this, nad then give a ton of money to mostly GOP candidates. US companies stand to lose profits, and it's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer. It also opens the door for really bad things to happen, like fake meds being passed off for the real thing.

If people have a prescription for their drugs.  Normally, those drugs would be obtained in the USA.  Won't they be getting the same drugs from Canadian drug suppliers?  Do you really think there will be fake drugs sold?  Are there fake drugs currently being sold to the Canadians?

It's only going to add layers of complexity and uncertainty to the US consumer.  Right!  Things are so clear and certain now.

Good for Trump.  If a system doesn't work, work around it.

How about, if the system doesn’t work, fix it? I thought he was supposed to sign an executive order limiting drug prices.

What amazes me in all of this is that most conservatives won’t see this for what it is — an admission that Canada has a better system. But no, we wouldn’t want evil socialist medicine in our free market paradise.

[Metalcat]

There's also the obvious problem that our Canadian system isn't equipped to handle US demand and we already have drug shortages, so it's not actually a solution in any kind of way. We have a teeny tiny population compared to the US, how much med supply do you think we even have??

[pecunia]

- SNIP -

How about, if the system doesn’t work, fix it? I thought he was supposed to sign an executive order limiting drug prices.

What amazes me in all of this is that most conservatives won’t see this for what it is — an admission that Canada has a better system. But no, we wouldn’t want evil socialist medicine in our free market paradise.

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

[marty998]

- SNIP -

How about, if the system doesn’t work, fix it? I thought he was supposed to sign an executive order limiting drug prices.

What amazes me in all of this is that most conservatives won’t see this for what it is — an admission that Canada has a better system. But no, we wouldn’t want evil socialist medicine in our free market paradise.

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

Somewhere along the line it has been forgotten what a healthy population can do for productivity and business profitability.

There's a long winded argument and train of thought in my head I could write about this. But, I'm tired. And it won't change anything.

[partgypsy]

- SNIP -

How about, if the system doesn’t work, fix it? I thought he was supposed to sign an executive order limiting drug prices.

What amazes me in all of this is that most conservatives won’t see this for what it is — an admission that Canada has a better system. But no, we wouldn’t want evil socialist medicine in our free market paradise.

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

Somewhere along the line it has been forgotten what a healthy population can do for productivity and business profitability.

There's a long winded argument and train of thought in my head I could write about this. But, I'm tired. And it won't change anything.

yes it's a whole area called "public health". The US is certainly not first in public health access or outcomes.

This article is from 2014 so it needs to be updated post-ACA. Pre-ACA you can see the amount of improvement called for. And since ACA was watered down from it's original conception I'm sure there is much room for improvement.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2014/us-health-system-ranks-last-among-eleven-countries-measures-access-equity

[ncornilsen]

Essentially, price controls are a non-starter, and negotiating with the pharma companies to reduce prices  'because I asked so nice' didn't work, now he's opening the door to buy the pills from somewhere WITH price controls. It's no admission that socialized healthcare is a better system, but it is indicative that the patent laws which grant essential monopolies to drug manufacturer's are broken where there are no price control provisions in place.

Maybe it''ll work as a leverage point with the the pharma companies...  it probably won't. We should still fix the patent laws and work on some kind of pricing control scheme.

[scottish]

Fortunately Canada has a "Canada first" policy on health care.    We will do what's necessary to keep all these sick, very sick and bad, very bad people out of our nice country.

I also thought I was reading the onion when I read this story.

[Wrenchturner]

We need to build a wall.

[Zamboni]

He's a moron, so this is about the level of competency we should expect.

Just got some health care in Italy while on a trip. . . I was worried about how it would go, but it was great. So EASY! Experienced, competent  doctor who we saw with 30 minutes of deciding we needed a doctor, no insurance to deal with, medicines were reasonable prices.

[Kris]

We need to build a wall.

I wouldn’t blame you. We are not sending you our best.

[FIRE Artist]

Fortunately Canada has a "Canada first" policy on health care.    We will do what's necessary to keep all these sick, very sick and bad, very bad people out of our nice country.

I also thought I was reading the onion when I read this story.

He might have given the national pharmacare dive a huge push. 

[nereo]

We need to build a wall.

I wouldn’t blame you. We are not sending you our best.

I take offense to that :-P

[GuitarStv]

We need to build a wall.

I wouldn’t blame you. We are not sending you our best.

I take offense to that :-P

 . . . some (I assume) are also good people.  :P

[Roland of Gilead]

Essentially, price controls are a non-starter, and negotiating with the pharma companies to reduce prices  'because I asked so nice' didn't work, now he's opening the door to buy the pills from somewhere WITH price controls. It's no admission that socialized healthcare is a better system, but it is indicative that the patent laws which grant essential monopolies to drug manufacturer's are broken where there are no price control provisions in place.

Maybe it''ll work as a leverage point with the the pharma companies...  it probably won't. We should still fix the patent laws and work on some kind of pricing control scheme.

We need a agency to oversee drug pricing and determine a fair price for a drug based on the development cost and market.  They would then set this price and the drug manufacturers would have to sell at that price.   The patent life is 20 years but it needs to start at the point the drug is approved, not at the point the molecule is discovered and patented.   If you give a company a price control that limits the amount of money they can make on a product, you need to ensure them a market for that product otherwise there is no financial incentive to fund the testing.  We also need to enforce the right of the drug manufacturer to sell the drug worldwide at the pre-determined price of the government agency.  If a foreign government places further restrictions on the price of the drug, tariffs should be declared on goods imported from that country.   A fund should be set up to compensate drug companies for selling at below cost to underdeveloped (poor) nations.

This is what is fair and would allow innovation to continue while spreading out the cost of research and testing over a longer period of time.

Instead of a company spending $5 billion on testing a drug for 8 years, then having only 12 years left to sell it (which is one of the main reasons behind the rapid widespread advertising and high prices), they would spend $5 billion for the drug development and have 20 years to recoup the investment.   The price they would need to charge for the drug to maintain a profit would be much less and the revenue, which supports the advancement of new drugs, would be less volatile.

I have not heard of anyone proposing what I just outlined so I am probably full of shit.

An alternative would be for drug testing to be done by the government and ownership of the drug by the government, allowing the government to provide the drugs to the population for a low cost.   I don't know how you would establish a price in other countries or recoup the government's investment.

[Leisured]

It is not as silly an idea as it sounds, because if enough Americans drive north to fill prescriptions, then American Pharma must reduce prices to compete. I hear Americans already travel to Cuba and Costa Rica to get cheaper drugs, and sometimes cheaper medical services. Still it makes more sense for the US Government to copy Canadian legislation to force lower drug prices from US Pharma.

Some posters criticize what they see as price controls, but it is not. It is Econ 101. US Pharma has market power and uses it. If the US government uses its bargaining power, that power merely offsets the market power that US Pharma already has.

Quality of drugs? Canada is a first world country.

[scottish]

It's wouldn't surprise me if it's actually Trump's opening shot in negotiations with the drug companies.   

First he states some extreme position to form an advantageous anchor.    Then he negotiates a more moderate agreement.   

At this point, Trump declares success for the win just in time for the next election.

Finally he abandons the project before implementation because it's no longer pertinent to his brand.

[calimom]

We need to build a wall.

I wouldn’t blame you. We are not sending you our best.

I take offense to that :-P

 . . . some (I assume) are also good people.  :P

"There are good people on both sides."
DJT

[fuzzy math]

On one hand its a ballsy move and on some level I appreciate that because I think we are at "blow it up" level for all things healthcare related. Better than a Democrat trying to do it and the Republicans screaming about how we can't. I am dying to hear how the R party is going to react to this.

On the other hand it shows how little he understands about anything other than real estate. The naivety required to think he can just sidestep normal process, when he'd never allow that to happen in his business realm. It hurts my soul to think that if it works, we've just demonstrated that diplomacy and policy don't matter and that strong arming works best.

Be careful Canada, we're sending rapists (one orange one to be specific) to your border!!!

[Just Joe]

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

So does that mean the GOP has to overcome a set of beliefs that the GOP practically created in their voter base? Or will they sneak this past in slow motion so that their voter base gets used to the idea? I can imagine a situation where the GOP tweaks some part of the ACA and then tries to take credit for the whole idea rather than the shared efforts of everyone in politics. A future where they and their supporters will conveniently forget their efforts to resist and undermine Obamacare/ACA.

[pecunia]

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

So does that mean the GOP has to overcome a set of beliefs that the GOP practically created in their voter base? Or will they sneak this past in slow motion so that their voter base gets used to the idea? I can imagine a situation where the GOP tweaks some part of the ACA and then tries to take credit for the whole idea rather than the shared efforts of everyone in politics. A future where they and their supporters will conveniently forget their efforts to resist and undermine Obamacare/ACA.

Don't worry about the GOP.  They sent Colin Powell to the UN a few years ago to lie to the entire world.  It worked well.  Their followers are true believers and will believe anything the party bosses wish to pass along.  Example:  There is no global warming.  All those scientists just want to receive research money.  Anything bad is just an example of market forces at work.  It's kind of like the middle ages when God was punishing sinners with disease, bad weather etc.    I remember having a discussion a few years ago with a true believer and he marveled that God had put "our" oil in Iraq.  Now somehow "our" drugs are in Canada.  No problem.

[fuzzy math]

It really is a weird turn of events.  From my perspective, this Socialized medicine thing IS the conservative approach.  It is better for the country's money as it frees up a lot of money, it's better for businesses as it streamlines their operations since they don't need to handle health care and it is better for the individual.

If the drug companies can't sell the drugs here (US) at the high prices since people are buying Canadian.  They'll just have to ship those drugs to Canada to be sold at the lower prices.   Conservatives will then be able to point at this market based shipment of drugs and say the market works.

So does that mean the GOP has to overcome a set of beliefs that the GOP practically created in their voter base? Or will they sneak this past in slow motion so that their voter base gets used to the idea? I can imagine a situation where the GOP tweaks some part of the ACA and then tries to take credit for the whole idea rather than the shared efforts of everyone in politics. A future where they and their supporters will conveniently forget their efforts to resist and undermine Obamacare/ACA.

Don't worry about the GOP.  They sent Colin Powell to the UN a few years ago to lie to the entire world.  It worked well.  Their followers are true believers and will believe anything the party bosses wish to pass along.  Example:  There is no global warming.  All those scientists just want to receive research money.  Anything bad is just an example of market forces at work.  It's kind of like the middle ages when God was punishing sinners with disease, bad weather etc.    I remember having a discussion a few years ago with a true believer and he marveled that God had put "our" oil in Iraq.  Now somehow "our" drugs are in Canada.  No problem.

Many GOP and religious commentators still blame weather, shootings on homosexuals, lack of the bible in school etc. You only have to go back in time about 3 months to find an example.

It would be kind of amazing if Trump was a trojan horse for the Republican party, accidentally introducing socialized medicine as popularly accepted theocracy.

[Leisured]

What amazes me in all of this is that most conservatives won’t see this for what it is — an admission that Canada has a better system. But no, we wouldn’t want evil socialist medicine in our free market paradise.

It is a pity that there is no drug to cure cognitive dissonance.

[bacchi]

Many GOP and religious commentators still blame weather, shootings on homosexuals, lack of the bible in school etc. You only have to go back in time about 3 months to find an example.

Nailed it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/candice-keller-ohio-lawmaker-mass-shootings/index.html

"The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates);..."

It's not an Onion article.

[Glenstache]

Or it is just a way to undermine the role of the FDA and thus consistent with all things Trump with regard I government agencies.