Author Topic: Straws are now evil?  (Read 6505 times)

BookLoverL

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2018, 05:42:11 AM »
Of course we need to be doing way more to deal with plastic pollution than just banning straws, but I'd rather they get people to cut back on straws and plastic carrier bags and the like than just do nothing. It would be even better if people were encouraged to replace plastic crap in general with sustainable alternatives, but insisting on the perfect action or policy before you do anything is just going to lead to nothing ever getting done.

Daley

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2018, 06:08:09 AM »
You can build roads with it (sorry this may be paywalled)

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/plastic-and-glass-road-that-could-help-solve-australia-s-waste-crisis-20180802-p4zv10.html

Quote
Sutherland Shire in southern Sydney is the first council in NSW to trial a plastic road following a similar Australia-first pilot in Hume City Council, in Melbourne’s outer north-west, in May this year.

The section of the highway, between Cooper Street and Engadine Avenue, will look identical to a traditional asphalt road.

But “Plastiphalt”, as the new material is known, will contain 176,000 plastic bags, 55,440 glass bottles and toner from 3960 used printer cartridges mixed with asphalt.

That seems like a tiny amount of plastic material honestly

To be fair, it is a trial program. I looked up the stretch of road in question on Google Maps., and it's a quarter of a kilometer of road that could only best be described here in the states as a major city street. Not a highway by our definition, or a freeway, maybe an expressway depending on your geographical region; but it's basically just a six lane road with sidewalks, a meridian, signals at major intersections, zero shoulder, and a top speed of 70km/h. Edit: Correction. Old Princess Highway, which is a quarter kilometer of two-way residential street with enough of a shoulder to permit parking. It seems like a respectable an even more impressive amount of product for the paving area in question. After all, most of the volume in tarmac isn't the tar, it's the gravel - or in this case, glass.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:23:12 AM by Daley »

pecunia

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2018, 07:43:24 PM »

MasterStache

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2018, 05:56:26 AM »
Looks like there are plastics out there now that will decompose:

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/how-long-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm

Yep, some have been around for a while. We have many rolls of biodegradable dog "poop" bags.

Still Being

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2018, 11:05:08 AM »
Straws are inanimate.

Chris22

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2018, 01:45:50 PM »
I don’t understand why an adult without certain specific disabilities needs a straw. Have we become just that lazy? Use some hand-eye coordination! It’s not hard! /rant

It is infinitely easier to drink a drink with ice in it with a straw.  It prevents the ice bath you get when your drink is more than half gone and you tip it and all the ice rushes towards your face. 

My solution to this is I drink ice water all day and all night out of a Yeti Tumbler that has a clear plastic lid that allows the water to escape and not the ice.  If it was socially acceptable to do so, I'd be happy to tote this Yeti everywhere I go (which I basically already do) and hand it to waitresses, etc to fill up with water and ice instead of receiving  an open-top glass from the restaurant.  Or leave me a pitcher on the table and I'll refill my own drinking container.  Seems like a win/win to everyone, but I've gotten the stink eye in plenty of food courts and gas stations for filling mine up with ice and water from their fountain drink dispenser, even though they'd be happy to give me a cup so I could do the same with a single-use cup instead of my durable metal one.  I don't get it. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2018, 02:03:50 PM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

Chris22

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2018, 02:06:24 PM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

I only drink water (through a straw, beer etc is different), and no, often water is not very cold unless served with ice.  And I like my water ice cold.  And it will be usually served with ice by default anyways. 

Daley

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2018, 04:32:40 PM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

I only drink water (through a straw, beer etc is different), and no, often water is not very cold unless served with ice.  And I like my water ice cold.  And it will be usually served with ice by default anyways.

Just throwing this out there for your edification, but cold water can negatively impact your body's ability to digest food. If you've got gut problems, keep drinking water, but try ditching the ice and refrigeration.

Cwadda

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2018, 05:00:40 PM »
Lol, all of this outrage about straws.

Meanwhile, the billion dollar plastic water bottle industry goes unscathed. Lol.

But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

Kris

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2018, 05:15:32 PM »
Lol, all of this outrage about straws.

Meanwhile, the billion dollar plastic water bottle industry goes unscathed. Lol.

But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

Well, of course. Because Nestle, Pepsi, etc. make a freaking fortune off of bottling TAP WATER and selling it.

There will never be a serious movement to stop this.

It's freaking sickening.

Chris22

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2018, 08:18:50 PM »
Lol, all of this outrage about straws.

Meanwhile, the billion dollar plastic water bottle industry goes unscathed. Lol.

But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

Seriously?  An entire cottage industry has sprung up to replace single use plastic bottles.

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-water-bottle/

Cwadda

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2018, 09:04:15 PM »
Lol, all of this outrage about straws.

Meanwhile, the billion dollar plastic water bottle industry goes unscathed. Lol.

But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

Well, of course. Because Nestle, Pepsi, etc. make a freaking fortune off of bottling TAP WATER and selling it.

There will never be a serious movement to stop this.

It's freaking sickening.
And they lobby to keep it just that way.

TrudgingAlong

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2018, 12:32:27 AM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...

marty998

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2018, 03:14:06 AM »
Lol, all of this outrage about straws.

Meanwhile, the billion dollar plastic water bottle industry goes unscathed. Lol.

But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

Well, of course. Because Nestle, Pepsi, etc. make a freaking fortune off of bottling TAP WATER and selling it.

There will never be a serious movement to stop this.

It's freaking sickening.
And they lobby to keep it just that way.

Bottled water was handed out at the last fun run I participated in. Swear to god I saw 2 people grabbing bottles, tipping out the water and then hi-five-ing each other that they'll make 10c a bottle at the recycling deposit centre.

Funny if it wasn't so serious.

simonsez

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2018, 08:19:11 AM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...
Hey, Costco has to keep the prices of everything else low somehow!  Every time I go in there I am amazed at the proportion of shoppers that have a water bottle case on their cart (or those who get the orange cart solely to load up big time on water bottle cases).

Chris22

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2018, 08:29:49 AM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...

I don't know that many people buy bottled water because it's better than tap, I think they buy it because it's convenient when they're out and about.  I agree that buying bottles to drink at home is dumb, and even when heading out I usually fill up a reusable cup and bring it with, but there are plenty of times when I'm out and about and need a drink, so I buy a bottled water.  It's usually that or warm water from a scuzzy water fountain, no thanks.  And honestly, the only reason I am really able to carry around a giant Yeti full of water all the time when walking around is because we have young kids and therefore use a stroller with built in cupholders.  Otherwise I don't want to be stuck carrying the thing all day, especially if I'm going somewhere I would have to put it down (say, the mall, or a park or something). 

Still Being

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2018, 08:43:52 AM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

I only drink water (through a straw, beer etc is different), and no, often water is not very cold unless served with ice.  And I like my water ice cold.  And it will be usually served with ice by default anyways.

Just throwing this out there for your edification, but cold water can negatively impact your body's ability to digest food. If you've got gut problems, keep drinking water, but try ditching the ice and refrigeration.

Second this. Wish it was normal in the US to just get water. Have to ask for no ice each time. Unsure where in nature you would find freezing water to consume so frequently.

TrudgingAlong

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2018, 10:48:27 AM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...

I don't know that many people buy bottled water because it's better than tap, I think they buy it because it's convenient when they're out and about.  I agree that buying bottles to drink at home is dumb, and even when heading out I usually fill up a reusable cup and bring it with, but there are plenty of times when I'm out and about and need a drink, so I buy a bottled water.  It's usually that or warm water from a scuzzy water fountain, no thanks.  And honestly, the only reason I am really able to carry around a giant Yeti full of water all the time when walking around is because we have young kids and therefore use a stroller with built in cupholders.  Otherwise I don't want to be stuck carrying the thing all day, especially if I'm going somewhere I would have to put it down (say, the mall, or a park or something).

Yes, you put it better, but that was mostly the point I was making. No one’s going to ban water bottles because pretty much everyone uses them (we also buy them at times there is nothing better available, although I don’t really care about drinking fountain fill ups if I can find it!). People who buy those giant cases of single serve just to drink every day, though....ugh.

OurTown

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

OMG.  It's the ghost of my dead father come back to haunt me!

ixtap

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2018, 06:33:22 PM »
I struggle with this one. There are undeniably bigger fish to fry in the unnecessary single-use plastic world (grocery bags, plastic bottles, etc.), but isn’t this ultimately a small step in the right direction?

Where my opinion matters, I doing what I can to turn the conversation from straws to a wide variety of single use products by encouraging travel mugs and water bottles all around. 

Needles and feces in the streets is a distractor. Those are not a matter of daily choices of functioning citizens, but rather much deeper society issues that need to be addressed separately. Ironically, in my social circles the same.people who complain about bag and straw bans whine about why can't the problem people just go somewhere else. So, basically, they don't want to fix either problem.

MasterStache

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2018, 05:53:50 AM »
Since we are discussing single use plastics, anyone else find the ridiculous amount of plastic packaging for toys and such utterly fucking stupid? And don't get me started on the Styrofoam.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2018, 03:31:34 AM »
Since we are discussing single use plastics, anyone else find the ridiculous amount of plastic packaging for toys and such utterly fucking stupid? And don't get me started on the Styrofoam.

Especially since so many things that are glamor packaged (thinking toys) get purchased online so it doesn't matter how they look on the shelf.

Syonyk

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2018, 04:32:30 PM »
Very weird. Straws are evil, but the streets littered with used needles and feces are ok.

Who says streets littered with used needles and feces are ok?

Seattle, evidently.  Because they're OK with that, but straws?  Well now.

And, while you're there, don't bike.  Because unless you've got a well secured bike cage, your bike will not last on the streets.  You'll come back to it either missing entirely, or a bare frame stripped of everything.  Because, apparently, enterprising meth-heads are a growth industry, and somehow manage to make stolen bike parts into enough to support their habit.

They then mix and match parts, sell them, or ship them overseas, or... something.

pecunia

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2018, 05:51:56 PM »


-SNIP-

They then mix and match parts, sell them, or ship them overseas, or... something.

Stolen Bicycles in Seattle

https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2014/10/1/this-is-what-happens-to-your-bike-after-its-stolen-october-2014

Syonyk

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2018, 06:49:01 PM »
Thanks, that was a good read.

When half of bike owners in an area report having a bicycle stolen, you can safely assume "there's a problem."  When people are literally sawing apart bike racks to steal bikes, "there's a problem."  I heard that at one company in Seattle, with a locked bike cage in the private parking garage, bikes went missing.  Apparently "having a chainlink fence around the cage" wasn't enough - you needed to secure all the links to the concrete at the bottom and top, or thieves would walk into the garage, worm through the top or bottom of the fence, grab a bike, and exit with it (I guess cards weren't required to exit, only enter).  It's pretty well absurd.  Of course, the police don't care, so why shouldn't you steal someone's bike and trade it for $50 of meth?

Seattle has a lot of problems.  But, apparently, not straws now.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2018, 10:46:30 AM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...
Hey, Costco has to keep the prices of everything else low somehow!  Every time I go in there I am amazed at the proportion of shoppers that have a water bottle case on their cart (or those who get the orange cart solely to load up big time on water bottle cases).

Here in Arizona there are drives for bottled water during the hotter months to hand out to the homeless, and this year's goal is 500,000 bottles.   I don't want to see people suffer with dehydration or heat stroke, but surely there's a better solution than a half million plastic bottles every year?

GuitarStv

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2018, 12:18:05 PM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...
Hey, Costco has to keep the prices of everything else low somehow!  Every time I go in there I am amazed at the proportion of shoppers that have a water bottle case on their cart (or those who get the orange cart solely to load up big time on water bottle cases).

Here in Arizona there are drives for bottled water during the hotter months to hand out to the homeless, and this year's goal is 500,000 bottles.   I don't want to see people suffer with dehydration or heat stroke, but surely there's a better solution than a half million plastic bottles every year?

Couldn't they just install public water fountains?

TrudgingAlong

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2018, 04:24:39 PM »
If they had done something about the bike problem, I guarantee people would whine about it. Or the needle clean up because I’m sure there would be something negative to complain about. Because we don’t seem to know how to applaud any kind of change, because there’s always something else. I mean, hell, they are finally working to change how easy it is to get opioids and there are still plenty of people whining about that. It seems the new national pastime is whining, not change. Yay, America.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2018, 01:50:12 PM »
Banning water selling is a while lot more of a nonstarter than an unnecessary straw. But, yeah, there has been a major push to get people to use reusable bottles for forever. Too may people keep buying the tap water, though, despite all the education...
Hey, Costco has to keep the prices of everything else low somehow!  Every time I go in there I am amazed at the proportion of shoppers that have a water bottle case on their cart (or those who get the orange cart solely to load up big time on water bottle cases).

Here in Arizona there are drives for bottled water during the hotter months to hand out to the homeless, and this year's goal is 500,000 bottles.   I don't want to see people suffer with dehydration or heat stroke, but surely there's a better solution than a half million plastic bottles every year?

Couldn't they just install public water fountains?
But then you couldn't do a good deed next year!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2018, 03:49:36 PM »
Back to straws  - what was wrong with paper ones?  Sure they got soggy and collapsed eventually, but they were truly one use.   Plastic straws were something for hospital use.

I swear I am feeling old, when no-one in the discussion even mentions paper alternatives.  Is this where I add that I remember meat being wrapped in freezer paper and sealed with freezer tape before being put in the freezer? There was civilization before plastic.

libertarian4321

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2018, 06:08:04 PM »
Mother Government, run amok.

Intrusive, "feel good" legislation that will likely have little or no net benefit.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I used a straw, paper or plastic, but I already have a mother, I don't need the nanny state telling me what I can and can't do....
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 06:10:10 PM by libertarian4321 »

Dabnasty

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2018, 07:37:09 PM »
Back to straws  - what was wrong with paper ones?  Sure they got soggy and collapsed eventually, but they were truly one use.   Plastic straws were something for hospital use.

I swear I am feeling old, when no-one in the discussion even mentions paper alternatives.  Is this where I add that I remember meat being wrapped in freezer paper and sealed with freezer tape before being put in the freezer? There was civilization before plastic.

Page 1 → Ctrl+f → "paper"

cats

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2018, 08:40:44 PM »
I am for it, as one of MANY necessary changes. Our city is actually considering adding a charge to all single use food containers at restaurants (plastic or otherwise) to encourage more use of re-useable options. I wrote my council member and asked them to approve, then wrote my state reps and asked if they’d consider something similar at the state level.  Single use crap (plastic or otherwise) is a huge problem, IMO.  You use resources to make the stuff, resources to ship it, then you have to figure out how to dispose of it. Right now it’s all so cheap because the true environmental cost isn’t factored in. If it was more expensive I think people might start to move in the right direction.

the_gastropod

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2018, 09:25:01 PM »
Mother Government, run amok.

Intrusive, "feel good" legislation that will likely have little or no net benefit.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I used a straw, paper or plastic, but I already have a mother, I don't need the nanny state telling me what I can and can't do....

Funny. Do you feel the same about regulations around air pollution? Regulations around municipal water quality? Water pollution? Dumping into storm drains? Littering laws? What’s uniquely “nanny state” about this?

remizidae

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2018, 09:31:55 PM »


Here in Arizona there are drives for bottled water during the hotter months to hand out to the homeless, and this year's goal is 500,000 bottles.   I don't want to see people suffer with dehydration or heat stroke, but surely there's a better solution than a half million plastic bottles every year?

Couldn't they just install public water fountains?

People need water that they can carry with them--they're not going to stay near water fountains all the time. Of course, a reusable bottle is a better solution, but one thing about being homeless is that you're constantly losing possessions.

cats

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2018, 09:34:15 PM »
Quote

Yes, you put it better, but that was mostly the point I was making. No one’s going to ban water bottles because pretty much everyone uses them (we also buy them at times there is nothing better available, although I don’t really care about drinking fountain fill ups if I can find it!). People who buy those giant cases of single serve just to drink every day, though....ugh.

I haaaaate these people. I was in a “healthy eating” group at one point and there was a challenge to share a picture of your fridge and one person’s fridge was packed with bottled water. I really wanted to make a comment but couldn’t think of any way to constructively say “you are a fucking idiot”.

We also went camping with a family who packed three different kinds of bottled water. There was perfectly good tap water. It made me twitchy the whole weekend.

Syonyk

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2018, 10:13:26 PM »
I usually find one of the heavier plastic gallon jugs of drinking water and use it for about 4-6 months until it gets too funky even after cleaning.

If I can find a distilled water container that's heavy enough for regular use, bonus. My batteries go through 2-3 gallons a year.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2018, 07:33:57 AM »
Back to straws  - what was wrong with paper ones?  Sure they got soggy and collapsed eventually, but they were truly one use.   Plastic straws were something for hospital use.

I swear I am feeling old, when no-one in the discussion even mentions paper alternatives.  Is this where I add that I remember meat being wrapped in freezer paper and sealed with freezer tape before being put in the freezer? There was civilization before plastic.

Page 1 → Ctrl+f → "paper"

Gagh, 2 mentions!  Now I am really feeling old, memory wiped.

simonsez

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2018, 07:40:41 AM »
People need water that they can carry with them--they're not going to stay near water fountains all the time. Of course, a reusable bottle is a better solution, but one thing about being homeless is that you're constantly losing possessions.
How about a hydration pack?  Literally strapped to your back providing water all day as you go between public water fountains.

Dicey

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2018, 07:59:11 AM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

I only drink water (through a straw, beer etc is different), and no, often water is not very cold unless served with ice.  And I like my water ice cold.  And it will be usually served with ice by default anyways.

Just throwing this out there for your edification, but cold water can negatively impact your body's ability to digest food. If you've got gut problems, keep drinking water, but try ditching the ice and refrigeration.
Ooh, I love to be edified! Citation, please?

GuitarStv

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2018, 08:02:41 AM »
People need water that they can carry with them--they're not going to stay near water fountains all the time. Of course, a reusable bottle is a better solution, but one thing about being homeless is that you're constantly losing possessions.
How about a hydration pack?  Literally strapped to your back providing water all day as you go between public water fountains.

I think hydration packs are a terrible idea for this.  They're extremely hard to clean properly, and if you keep water in them for long times (or if you put anything besides water) they start growing mold and algae.  They're also relatively easy to pierce and then would just become another piece of plastic garbage floating around the landscape.

If you build enough public water fountains, homeless people would actually be near them all the time.  It might also encourage citizens to reduce their wasteful use of plastic bottled water.

Jim Fiction

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2018, 08:09:07 AM »
Mother Government, run amok.

Intrusive, "feel good" legislation that will likely have little or no net benefit.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I used a straw, paper or plastic, but I already have a mother, I don't need the nanny state telling me what I can and can't do....

Funny. Do you feel the same about regulations around air pollution? Regulations around municipal water quality? Water pollution? Dumping into storm drains? Littering laws? What’s uniquely “nanny state” about this?

I don't need no nanny state telling me where I can and can't dump my toxic sludge!

GuitarStv

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2018, 08:34:13 AM »
Mother Government, run amok.

Intrusive, "feel good" legislation that will likely have little or no net benefit.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I used a straw, paper or plastic, but I already have a mother, I don't need the nanny state telling me what I can and can't do....

Funny. Do you feel the same about regulations around air pollution? Regulations around municipal water quality? Water pollution? Dumping into storm drains? Littering laws? What’s uniquely “nanny state” about this?

Libertarians typically believe that you should be allowed to do your own thing as long as you're not hurting anyone else.  However, they typically do some sort of doublethink that allows them to forget that pollution hurts everyone else.  Without this doublethink they would all (by necessity) be rabid environmentalists which would conflict with their rabid anti-government stance.

Daley

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2018, 08:37:22 AM »
Why is it so important to have ice in your drink?  Does the drink not come out of the fountain or whatever pretty cold already?

I only drink water (through a straw, beer etc is different), and no, often water is not very cold unless served with ice.  And I like my water ice cold.  And it will be usually served with ice by default anyways.

Just throwing this out there for your edification, but cold water can negatively impact your body's ability to digest food. If you've got gut problems, keep drinking water, but try ditching the ice and refrigeration.
Ooh, I love to be edified! Citation, please?

It can slow down digestion and potentially contribute to dyspepsia in some people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19308311
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3179579

There are a couple other studies that claim that there's not enough evidence to say either way...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7153912
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2912011

...but there's also a study that seems to show that the slowdown reported in the first two might also be triggered by a neurological response to cold in general for some people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10955597

Note, I am not one to give much credence to Ayurveda and its followers, but I have to give this one to them, even when they usually get the mechanism all wrong and backwards. I skew hard science, and what limited science there is on the subject confirmed something I noticed for years with myself. Cold liquid with meals had a bad habit of giving me indigestion... but then, I have a far more delicate GI tract than most. As for whether there's a physical inhibition by the cold of the water itself, the impact of contracting gastric muscles, or a neurological response to the cold in general, that appears to still be up in the air. Either way, there's enough there to safely make the general rule of thumb be, "Drink warm water with a meal instead of cold, it's far less likely to potentially give you heartburn."
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:39:06 AM by Daley »

accolay

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2018, 09:52:33 AM »
Tell people not to eat meat any more?  Tell them to drive less, and use smaller cars?  Tell them to consume less?  Tell them to live in small apartments in cities?

Jimmy Carter said something about that nearly 40 years ago. Didn't work out well for him either.

I also agree that people don't give a shit about the environment. Even when he Earth is ruined, people will still be taking a dump in the same water they'll use to drink from.

Thats why eventually we'll be headed for authoritarian Green governments in the future. Because the only way to make humans do something is with inforceable laws with penalties. We're just too fucking lazy as a species combined to do it on our own if nobody's watching.


Easy material solution to the plastics problem going forward? Make all packaging immediately recyclable or compostable. But again, that would take laws and people that gave a shit.

accolay

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2018, 09:56:05 AM »
But really folks, stop using plastic fucking water bottles please.

And K-cups for that matter...

Syonyk

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2018, 10:23:50 AM »
Libertarians typically believe that you should be allowed to do your own thing as long as you're not hurting anyone else.  However, they typically do some sort of doublethink that allows them to forget that pollution hurts everyone else.  Without this doublethink they would all (by necessity) be rabid environmentalists which would conflict with their rabid anti-government stance.

Depending on the branch of libertarianism, the solution is often found in private property rights and not having as widespread "commons" as we do currently.  It's quite possible to hold consistent environmental views as a libertarian.

GuitarStv

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2018, 11:14:25 AM »
Libertarians typically believe that you should be allowed to do your own thing as long as you're not hurting anyone else.  However, they typically do some sort of doublethink that allows them to forget that pollution hurts everyone else.  Without this doublethink they would all (by necessity) be rabid environmentalists which would conflict with their rabid anti-government stance.

Depending on the branch of libertarianism, the solution is often found in private property rights and not having as widespread "commons" as we do currently.  It's quite possible to hold consistent environmental views as a libertarian.

It gets pretty convoluted if you believe in the right to be secure in life, liberty, and property.  If you own and drive a ICE car, you are contributing to air pollution that kills other people every year.  Either you deprive yourself of liberty and forgo driving (even on your own private property), or your don't believe that those people have the right to be secure in their life.  It's a bit of an either/or logic trap that forces doublethink . . . and usually the Libertarian doublethink errs on the side of small government over and personal freedom over other people being secure in their life.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Straws are now evil?
« Reply #99 on: August 21, 2018, 11:23:26 AM »
Libertarians typically believe that you should be allowed to do your own thing as long as you're not hurting anyone else.  However, they typically do some sort of doublethink that allows them to forget that pollution hurts everyone else.  Without this doublethink they would all (by necessity) be rabid environmentalists which would conflict with their rabid anti-government stance.

Depending on the branch of libertarianism, the solution is often found in private property rights and not having as widespread "commons" as we do currently.  It's quite possible to hold consistent environmental views as a libertarian.

Libertarianism strikes me about the same way as communism - lovely as a theory, not practical/realistic in real life.

So when does your right to pollute hit someone else's right to not be polluted at? Pollution does not respect geography.  I well remember eastern Canadian provinces and eastern US states working together to put pressure on Midwestern electrical plants (mostly in the US, but some in western provinces) that were producing masses of green house gasses that then were blown east and were acidifying lakes and killing forests.

What do you do about a multi-national company that wants to build a polluting plant upstream/upwind of you?   Are only those directly affected allowed to protest?  And how do you prove who will be affected and who won't be, when you can't show you are affected until you are affected?  At which time it is too late.

There are a lot of commons out there.  What about the oceans?  Boreal forests? Tropical rain forests?    Plus commons, or public land, are nice if for example the public land is a nice beach area, so hotels can't be right on the beach and block access.

I read somewhere (no idea where) that a lot of "commons" or "unoccupied ground" that European explorers found was not actually unoccupied, there were very well-established local rules for who used what resource when.  It just happened to not be in use the day the explorers arrived.