Author Topic: Stand on/Give way  (Read 585 times)

Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 612
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Holly Springs, NC
Stand on/Give way
« on: June 08, 2018, 05:21:50 PM »
I'm sure this is better suited for a different forum, but it is definitely off topic for here.  Besides, I don't belong to any sailing forums.

Let's say you are in a small protected body of water.  A small sailboat like a Sunfish converges on a kayak or canoe.  Who gives way? 
It's not about money, it's about mindset

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10911
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 07:02:23 PM »
Martin Harvey: Slow down! There's boats all over the place!
Captain Ron: Don't worry. They'll get out of the way. I learned that driving the Saratoga.

techwiz

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
  • Location: Ontario
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 07:03:08 PM »
Really depends on a number of factors.

A few rules of thumb:
Windward gives way to leeward: If two sailboats are approaching each other and the wind is on the same side of each boat, then sailing rules are that the vessel which is to windward (the direction of the wind) must give the right of way to the vessel which is leeward (the opposite direction of the wind).

Sailboat or self-propelled watercraft is passing a power driven vessel. In an overtaking situation, the overtaking vessel is the give-way vessel, even if it is not propelled by an engine.

Starboard: If any vessel approaches your boat from the starboard sector, you must keep out of its way. You are the give-way craft. Stern: If any vessel approaches your boat from the stern (from behind your boat) you should maintain your speed and course with caution. You are the stand-on craft.


It basically comes down to common sense. Who is in a better position to give way avoid the collision?
 

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 07:07:15 PM »
@Sailor Sam

I believe this is the bat signal for you to swoop in and tell it like it is.
No, really. I spend a lot of time thinking about rocks.

Silverado

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2018, 07:26:47 PM »
Martin Harvey: Slow down! There's boats all over the place!
Captain Ron: Don't worry. They'll get out of the way. I learned that driving the Saratoga.

Gorillas?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10911
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 07:29:48 PM »
Martin Harvey: Slow down! There's boats all over the place!
Captain Ron: Don't worry. They'll get out of the way. I learned that driving the Saratoga.

Gorillas?

Ha!  I knew there had to be one other person on the boat who had seen that movie.  :P

Sailor Sam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3554
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 07:43:18 PM »
Interesting! My conclusion is that there's no official rule stating hierarchy between a sailing vessel and a vessel under oars.

Long Technical Discussion.

Section II of the Inland and International COLREGS covers the conduct of vessels in sight of one another, which would include your scenario @Uturn. Rule 11 states the Section applies to all vessels, and the definition of a vessel "includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.". This seems like a hopeful path, but ultimately peters out.

Rule 12 covers conduct between vessels operating under sail (which @techwiz has covered), but doesn't explicitly include vessels under oars. Rule 13 says any vessel overtaking another vessel is automatically the give way. But then Rules 14 for crossing and 15 for head on situations explicitly state they only apply to power driven vessels. Rule 16 covers how to give way, and Rule 17 covers how to stand on, but neither of those are helpful because vessels under oars aren't included in Rule 18 which actually lists the hierarchy of who stands on and who gives way. At best, this section tells vessels under oars that they're the give way vessel when overtaking another vessel, but gives no information on when to stand on or give way during a head on or crossing situation.

Rule 25, in Section III does explicitly discuss vessels under oars, but that only explains what lights and dayshapes such vessels must carry. Rule 25 does lump sail and oars together. I suppose a prudent mariner could use that grouping to assume vessels under oars should follow Rule 13 for standing on and giving way to other vessels, but I personally feel it breaks down because the two methods of propulsion have very different levels of manoeuvrability and hydrodynamics.

At the end of the day, I suppose you can do what all the other yachties do, and scream STARBOARD, while vigorously ramming into your own well polish, well loved, and well cared for flotation. Usually they do this from port, the fuckers.

ixtap

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 986
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 08:22:25 PM »
The general rule of thumb is that the more maneuverable vessel is the give way.

The single most important written rule is that everyone is required to make every effort to avoid collision.

nessness

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 07:44:48 PM »
I used to be a rower and was taught to give way to sailboats, so I assume kayaks and canoes should do the same.

meghan88

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
  • Location: Ontario
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 05:38:41 PM »
The general rule of thumb is that the more maneuverable vessel is the give way.

The single most important written rule is that everyone is required to make every effort to avoid collision.

That would be my opinion.  Just like any pilot:  See and avoid.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Stand on/Give way
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 06:45:52 PM »
The general rule of thumb is that the more maneuverable vessel is the give way.

The single most important written rule is that everyone is required to make every effort to avoid collision.

This. There are rules and hierarchies, but they are all generally based on this.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.