Author Topic: Spring floods and government reparations  (Read 1094 times)

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Location: Ottawa
Spring floods and government reparations
« on: May 23, 2019, 03:48:48 PM »
Some folks up here have had a tough couple of years (2017 and 2019).   Due to high spring runoff, their properties have been flooded twice.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/worried-gatineau-residents-seek-answers-about-flood-reparations

One afflicted homeowner writes:

Quote
Danielle Potvin, whose home on rue Jacques-Cartier was flooded in 2017 and has 2.5 metres of water in the basement again, hopes the government has learned a lesson from the previous disaster.

This time is worse because we know whats going to happen, Potvin said. We know what were going to go through.

Fortunately the government has things well in hand:

Quote
I think this is a good first step, Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pednaud-Jobin told reporters after the meeting.

Its happening early. People have to know how the program works. They have to test it. And then well see. Ill base my judgment on what citizens say, not on public meetings, he said.

I think the ministry has learned from 2017. The program is much easier for citizens to use thats in theory, at least. We will see in the coming weeks if it works.

There's more like this in the article.  I'm dismayed by the attitudes exhibited here.   People own a home in a region that's prone to flooding and everyone seems to think the government should step in and give them reparations so that ...   they can be flooded again in a year or two.   Excuusssse me - the solution here is not to give out government money more efficiently.

On the other hand, some cities (cough downtown Calgary cough) are built on a flood plain.   If the Bow river floods, so does downtown Calgary.   The government has constructed dams and flood control devices upstream that have - so far - largely prevented large scale flooding.   

Of course, the Bow river is tiny compared to the Ottawa river.   And downtown Calgary is much more valuable than a few small neighbourhoods in Ottawa-Hull.    So the cost/benefit ratio is probably much better for flood control in Calgary than in Ottawa.




bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3660
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 04:20:35 PM »
The US has a similar problem. The federal flood insurance program can't deny insurance. The same property can flood 3x in 5 years and still get cheap (subsidized) flood insurance from FEMA. It's costly and a waste of resources and there's a simple solution.

soccerluvof4

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4853
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2019, 04:35:38 PM »
Yea i dont know what the answer is but its only getting worse and lets not forget Hurricane season as well. There is no stopping mother nature and the trend has been for the worse. The easy answer is to not build in such areas but people will continue to for various reasons.

teen persuasion

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 01:36:39 PM »
The lake levels are rising, too.  Flooding was bad on Lake Ontario shores in 2017, and they just said they expect levels to exceed that sometime this week.  Areas that had breakwalls rebuilt to prevent more erosion have seen the repairs completely destroyed.   They are worried about the foundations of Old Fort Niagara.

Lake Erie is high, too, apparently.

ChpBstrd

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1354
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 10:47:20 AM »
Im not generally a critic of pooling resources to buy nice things like parks, infrastructure, space stations, security, etc. Insurance, whether private or public, may be one of those nice things. Yes, there is some injustice to resource pooling. Some people never go to parks, but must pay for them anyway. There are some roads in your city where you will never drive. But overall, the method gets things done when the private market cannot.

Should houses be built in low lying areas where there is a risk of flooding? Its kind of like asking should anything be built near fault lines, or in coastal areas that experience hurricanes, or in Oklahoma where they have tornados, or in deserts where the heat can exceed human endurance.

So who is to blame for repetitive flooding / assistance needs? Ask who lobbied the politicians who directed the permitting people to allow building in flooodplains.

Blueberries

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 196
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 01:15:32 PM »
The US has a similar problem. The federal flood insurance program can't deny insurance. The same property can flood 3x in 5 years and still get cheap (subsidized) flood insurance from FEMA. It's costly and a waste of resources and there's a simple solution.

What's the simple solution? 

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13367
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 02:21:16 PM »
This is a thousand people impacted.  Let's say that they're all couples  . . .  this would mean that 500 homes are impacted.  That's a lot of people to build in an area that floods all the time.  I don't think this theory is correct.

The article describes at least one of these home owners as having bought the house 32 years ago.  It flooded in 2017 and 2019.  Another home owner bought his house in 1996.  Again, no flooding issues until 2017 and 2019.

The current climate crisis we're undergoing is real.  Many places where it was once safe to build a home, will not be safe in the next 20 years.  I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.

Is rebuilding the home a good idea?  Probably not.  But it's hard to tell someone who has their whole life's savings in their home and property that both are worthless.

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 03:29:03 PM »
This is a thousand people impacted.  Let's say that they're all couples  . . .  this would mean that 500 homes are impacted.  That's a lot of people to build in an area that floods all the time.  I don't think this theory is correct.

The article describes at least one of these home owners as having bought the house 32 years ago.  It flooded in 2017 and 2019.  Another home owner bought his house in 1996.  Again, no flooding issues until 2017 and 2019.

The current climate crisis we're undergoing is real.  Many places where it was once safe to build a home, will not be safe in the next 20 years.  I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.

Is rebuilding the home a good idea?  Probably not.  But it's hard to tell someone who has their whole life's savings in their home and property that both are worthless.

Speculation...    I'm pretty sure many of the homes and cottages in Constance Bay flood on a more frequent basis.   Same with Aylmer.

I'm dismayed about the expectation that the government will hand out money (and pdq too!) to fix the flooded house instead of the owner doing something constructive.   I am neither supporting nor denying climate science.

If it turns out you're correct and this is just the beginning then dealing with flooded residences will become a major problem won't it? 

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3660
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 03:32:40 PM »
The US has a similar problem. The federal flood insurance program can't deny insurance. The same property can flood 3x in 5 years and still get cheap (subsidized) flood insurance from FEMA. It's costly and a waste of resources and there's a simple solution.

What's the simple solution?

The feds provide resettlement funds. Any resident can stay and rebuild all they want but they'll need private flood insurance -- or none at all -- to reflect the current reality.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13367
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 06:38:37 PM »
I am neither supporting nor denying climate science.

If it turns out you're correct and this is just the beginning then dealing with flooded residences will become a major problem won't it? 

Yes, that is what all the scientists and evidence have been telling us.  And why all major insurance companies have been factoring the impacts of climate change into their models for years now.

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 08:16:04 PM »
Yes, if only our carbon based economy could be as quickly adjusted as our chlorofluorocarbon based air conditioners were.   But we don't need another global warming/climate change thread, I'm sure there's one on here somewhere!


soccerluvof4

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4853
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 03:47:40 AM »
News Flash..Weather Changes and not going to stop mother nature.

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Location: Norway
Re: Spring floods and government reparations
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 07:05:47 AM »
So who is to blame for repetitive flooding / assistance needs? Ask who lobbied the politicians who directed the permitting people to allow building in flooodplains.

Indeed, it is the local politians who decide which ground that can be used for building homes. Any legally built home on such a stretch of land, should be the country's responsibility to make anti-flooding measures.

But of course, some area are getting worse and worse by the climate changes. Things have changed. The good solition would be to remove homes from those areas to somewhere safer. But there might be many such changes in the coming years. We can get more land slides from harder rain, rivers running differently, more forest fires, flooding, more draught. I am not sure everything is solvable in an easy way. There is a whole TV series about flooding problems in some of the bigger cities in the world.