Author Topic: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship  (Read 46004 times)

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2016, 07:17:34 AM »
does anyone know the backstory of why the named the autonomous barge "of course i still love you"?

to megaschnauzer:  It's my undertanding that no one is on the barge when the rocket lands.  They are a few miles away on support craft.  I'm not sure you could get close to the rocket immediately after touch-down to 'tie it down' (way too hot from reentry, rockets firing, etc).  I'm guessing they have to let it cool for several minutes before anyone can get close enough to put tie-down straps on.

Luke Warm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2016, 07:22:28 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

cerat0n1a

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2016, 07:40:52 AM »
does anyone know the backstory of why the named the autonomous barge "of course i still love you"?

Named after a spaceship from Iain M. Banks books, one of their other craft is named "just read the instructions" from the same source.

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2016, 07:43:16 AM »
does anyone know the backstory of why the named the autonomous barge "of course i still love you"?

Named after a spaceship from Iain M. Banks books, one of their other craft is named "just read the instructions" from the same source.
nice!  Thanks.  I'm not familiar with those books... but I"ll add them to my queue.

cerat0n1a

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2016, 07:50:05 AM »
He was a Scottish author, died of cancer a couple of years back, generally considered one of the best contemporary British novelists. He wrote (very good) "literary" fiction under the name Iain Banks and (also widely acclaimed) speculative/sci-fi under the name Iain. M. Banks. The spacecraft in question were from the "Culture" series of books, which begin with Consider Phlebas, although I think those particular ships are from the book "Player of Games."

AlanStache

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2016, 07:50:37 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Rocket science is f-ing hard, and there rarely is partial credit.  To design and test the control software and landing legs they would have had to develop a mathematical model of the barge in the ocean.  You have to know how much it rocks and at what frequency/amplitude, and how its motion is related to winds and currents and develop limits you can launch within.  Also you need to develop ditching criteria for the rocket, if anything on X list is not good the rocket needs to abort the landing and crash in a safe spot.  How many of the internal gyros can fail before it should ditch-is this a function of altitude? 

Luke Warm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2016, 08:02:06 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Rocket science is f-ing hard, and there rarely is partial credit.  To design and test the control software and landing legs they would have had to develop a mathematical model of the barge in the ocean.  You have to know how much it rocks and at what frequency/amplitude, and how its motion is related to winds and currents and develop limits you can launch within.  Also you need to develop ditching criteria for the rocket, if anything on X list is not good the rocket needs to abort the landing and crash in a safe spot.  How many of the internal gyros can fail before it should ditch-is this a function of altitude?
funny, we can make a missile fly from one moving aircraft to blow up another moving aircraft while both are traveling super fast. yet getting a rocket to land softly on a slowly moving platform is difficult. destruction is easy, progress is hard.

AlanStache

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2016, 08:11:37 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Rocket science is f-ing hard, and there rarely is partial credit.  To design and test the control software and landing legs they would have had to develop a mathematical model of the barge in the ocean.  You have to know how much it rocks and at what frequency/amplitude, and how its motion is related to winds and currents and develop limits you can launch within.  Also you need to develop ditching criteria for the rocket, if anything on X list is not good the rocket needs to abort the landing and crash in a safe spot.  How many of the internal gyros can fail before it should ditch-is this a function of altitude?
funny, we can make a missile fly from one moving aircraft to blow up another moving aircraft while both are traveling super fast. yet getting a rocket to land softly on a slowly moving platform is difficult. destruction is easy, progress is hard.

Remember SpaceX is trying to make money not win a war, so costs and efficiencies come into play in different ways.  Lots of people have been working on the war side for a very long time with relatively few working on the landing problem. 

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2016, 08:23:55 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Rocket science is f-ing hard, and there rarely is partial credit.  To design and test the control software and landing legs they would have had to develop a mathematical model of the barge in the ocean.  You have to know how much it rocks and at what frequency/amplitude, and how its motion is related to winds and currents and develop limits you can launch within.  Also you need to develop ditching criteria for the rocket, if anything on X list is not good the rocket needs to abort the landing and crash in a safe spot.  How many of the internal gyros can fail before it should ditch-is this a function of altitude?
funny, we can make a missile fly from one moving aircraft to blow up another moving aircraft while both are traveling super fast. yet getting a rocket to land softly on a slowly moving platform is difficult. destruction is easy, progress is hard.

Remember SpaceX is trying to make money not win a war, so costs and efficiencies come into play in different ways.  Lots of people have been working on the war side for a very long time with relatively few working on the landing problem.

Exactly.  For example, the cost of a single-use Sidewinder missile (the kind frequently used in air-air combat) exceeds $600k each, and these are small (85kg) single-use missiles that have been in use for 60 years.  The falcon X rocket costs the same as 10 sidewinders.

War is effing expensive.

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2016, 08:59:57 AM »
the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Rocket science is f-ing hard, and there rarely is partial credit.  To design and test the control software and landing legs they would have had to develop a mathematical model of the barge in the ocean.  You have to know how much it rocks and at what frequency/amplitude, and how its motion is related to winds and currents and develop limits you can launch within.  Also you need to develop ditching criteria for the rocket, if anything on X list is not good the rocket needs to abort the landing and crash in a safe spot.  How many of the internal gyros can fail before it should ditch-is this a function of altitude?
funny, we can make a missile fly from one moving aircraft to blow up another moving aircraft while both are traveling super fast. yet getting a rocket to land softly on a slowly moving platform is difficult. destruction is easy, progress is hard.

Remember SpaceX is trying to make money not win a war, so costs and efficiencies come into play in different ways.  Lots of people have been working on the war side for a very long time with relatively few working on the landing problem.

Exactly.  For example, the cost of a single-use Sidewinder missile (the kind frequently used in air-air combat) exceeds $600k each, and these are small (85kg) single-use missiles that have been in use for 60 years.  The falcon X rocket costs the same as 10 sidewinders.

War is effing expensive.

And we have an endless budget for war. Whereas scientific advancement gets a limited budget.

CmFtns

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place

the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Elon said the pitch and roll on the ship was 2-3 degrees and that is well within the margin which the stage can land and not tip over. The drone ship has 4 motors that can rotate 360 degrees to keep it in the correct position and during this launch it was accurate to its intended gps location within 1 meter.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 10:17:48 AM by comfyfutons »

brett2k07

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2016, 12:04:58 PM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place

the reason i asked was the water looked pretty choppy in the video. not sure how stable the barge is but i guess there are bigger brains than mine that have figured all that out.

Cool, I was curious about that as well. In one of the images shared on the first page, it looks like there are some sort of heat shields protecting what looks like bunker type shipping containers. I didn't think there was anyone on board either, but I stared to doubt that once I saw those.

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2016, 12:28:28 PM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place


How soon before we get a drone landing ship with 'bots on board who secure the rocket's feet after touchdown.  Operating/chartering a boat is also $thousands/trip when you have to go over a hundred miles offshore.  Of all the technological challenges that would seem to be pretty simple (retractable hydrolic arms built into the drone ship perhaps...)


PFHC

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2016, 12:31:27 PM »
Bad ass.

CmFtns

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2016, 01:27:25 PM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place


How soon before we get a drone landing ship with 'bots on board who secure the rocket's feet after touchdown.  Operating/chartering a boat is also $thousands/trip when you have to go over a hundred miles offshore.  Of all the technological challenges that would seem to be pretty simple (retractable hydrolic arms built into the drone ship perhaps...)

I imagine spacex purchased a boat and uses it's own employees for the support team. But you have to understand that it doesn't really matter how they do it because the costs of something like recovery expenses pale in comparison to the cost associated with an expendable launch vehicle... they are spending hundreds of thousands to save tens of millions

very mustacian don't you think? lol
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 01:40:59 PM by comfyfutons »

AlanStache

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2016, 02:07:55 PM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place


How soon before we get a drone landing ship with 'bots on board who secure the rocket's feet after touchdown.  Operating/chartering a boat is also $thousands/trip when you have to go over a hundred miles offshore.  Of all the technological challenges that would seem to be pretty simple (retractable hydrolic arms built into the drone ship perhaps...)

I am not sure the launch frequency would support the development of that level of automation, and are those people needed at other stages of the reuse process?  Also when something does not go exactly as planed people are much better at improvisation.

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2016, 02:26:25 PM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.

The drone ship is autonomous with no one on board... Support ships are stationed miles away and come to the drone ship once the rocket lands. They weld feet over the legs onto the deck to hold it in place


How soon before we get a drone landing ship with 'bots on board who secure the rocket's feet after touchdown.  Operating/chartering a boat is also $thousands/trip when you have to go over a hundred miles offshore.  Of all the technological challenges that would seem to be pretty simple (retractable hydrolic arms built into the drone ship perhaps...)

I am not sure the launch frequency would support the development of that level of automation, and are those people needed at other stages of the reuse process?  Also when something does not go exactly as planed people are much better at improvisation.

It's probably better to focus development effort on other priorities. Like how to get people to Mars. And setting up that global satellite Internet service. Etc.

Carless

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2016, 09:24:51 AM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2016, 09:44:42 AM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

My guess is that it would require extra fuel to blast the rocket back over there. Rocket launches aren't straight up--they are quickly heading across the surface of the Earth as well. They need to end up in orbit, and the way you do that is going about 17,000mph around the Earth. So after only a few minutes of traveling at speeds above the speed of sound, rockets are pretty far from their launch pad. And since the Space Coast launch pads are right next to the ocean, that's where the rockets will end up.

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2016, 09:47:28 AM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with a combination of launch site and liability. 
Providing they're using Cape Canaveral as a launch site the rocket very quickly goes over the Atlantic.  I think it's better to launch in that direction b/c of the spin of the earth (but not certain about that).  Even if it were launched in the opposite direction it would soon be over the Gulf of Mexico.

Using a different launch site and landing presents liability concerns. Sure, if all goes right the rocket lands in an area the size of a football field.  But if anything goes wrong at any point during the launch the rocket could land anywhere in an area of several hundred square miles.  It's difficult (if not impossible) to find a suitable launch site where a city or town wouldn't be in the 'fall-out zone'.  Hence - the ocean's the best option.

ncornilsen

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2016, 10:00:28 AM »
While SpaceX is WAY ahead of Blue Origin, and that the challenges of going straight up, then straight down, are much less than the ballistic trajectory the SpaceX rocket uses, I wonder how Blue Origin has the confidence to do their testing over land?

https://www.blueorigin.com/news#youtubeYU3J-jKb75g

I don't care which of these two wins - we make parts for both of 'em. :)

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2016, 10:04:51 AM »
While SpaceX is WAY ahead of Blue Origin, and that the challenges of going straight up, then straight down, are much less than the ballistic trajectory the SpaceX rocket uses, I wonder how Blue Origin has the confidence to do their testing over land?


Because at this stage, as you said, they are going up, then down (then repeat). Ergo, their "fall-out zone" is just a couple miles around their launch site, not hundreds of miles like the Falcon X.
 You'll never achieve orbit this way (that's not their goal at the moment).  Once they get to the 'launching into orbit' stage they'll need to address these problems.  My guess is they'll use an almost identical floating landing pad.

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2016, 10:07:59 AM »
While SpaceX is WAY ahead of Blue Origin, and that the challenges of going straight up, then straight down, are much less than the ballistic trajectory the SpaceX rocket uses, I wonder how Blue Origin has the confidence to do their testing over land?

https://www.blueorigin.com/news#youtubeYU3J-jKb75g

I don't care which of these two wins - we make parts for both of 'em. :)

SpaceX has successfully landed the first stage on land as well. Like I said, I think it's just more expensive to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B6oiLNyKKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANv5UfZsvZQ

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2016, 10:30:49 AM »
Amazing, wonderful stuff. SpaceX has a facility in McGregor, Texas where they have tested a rocket taking off and landing, on land, obviously. But it wasn't going at orbital speeds.

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2016, 10:43:46 AM »
Amazing, wonderful stuff. SpaceX has a facility in McGregor, Texas where they have tested a rocket taking off and landing, on land, obviously. But it wasn't going at orbital speeds.

And also one from FL that was returning from launching satellites to orbit. See video in post above.

ender

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2016, 11:06:50 AM »
While SpaceX is WAY ahead of Blue Origin, and that the challenges of going straight up, then straight down, are much less than the ballistic trajectory the SpaceX rocket uses, I wonder how Blue Origin has the confidence to do their testing over land?

https://www.blueorigin.com/news#youtubeYU3J-jKb75g

I don't care which of these two wins - we make parts for both of 'em. :)

SpaceX has successfully landed the first stage on land as well. Like I said, I think it's just more expensive to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B6oiLNyKKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANv5UfZsvZQ

It's not so much expensive as you reduce payload. Rockets are typically launched not straight up but at angles, which normally puts them out over the ocean when they are "done."

If you need to land it on land (and not on a barge) you have to expend additional fuel to move the rocket back over land to land it. Reducing extra fuel requirements at the end is a significant weight savings on launch (as you need more fuel to launch all the fuel you need later at the beginning). Landing it more or less where it finishes is a minimum amount of fuel.

Chranstronaut

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2016, 11:08:45 AM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with a combination of launch site and liability. 
Providing they're using Cape Canaveral as a launch site the rocket very quickly goes over the Atlantic.  I think it's better to launch in that direction b/c of the spin of the earth (but not certain about that).  Even if it were launched in the opposite direction it would soon be over the Gulf of Mexico.

Using a different launch site and landing presents liability concerns. Sure, if all goes right the rocket lands in an area the size of a football field.  But if anything goes wrong at any point during the launch the rocket could land anywhere in an area of several hundred square miles.  It's difficult (if not impossible) to find a suitable launch site where a city or town wouldn't be in the 'fall-out zone'.  Hence - the ocean's the best option.

Correct, launching west to east near the equator allows you to "steal" some of Earth's rotational energy for your launch.  You can launch in any direction, but you will waste fuel and thus mass (...and thus more fuel and thus more mass and...).  It's usually more efficient overall to make corrections once you've hit a particular altitude.  Florida is okay efficiency-wise but the ESA's Guiana Space Center is much better.  Many useful orbits are around the equator and you can create an orbit there that will rotate with the Earth's day to remain focused on one spot of land (geo-stationary).  Fun fact - the 360 degrees of geo-stationary orbit are actually split up into segments and controlled through agreements between countries because they are so valuable.

Tangent:
The Russians are at a disadvantage being so far from the equator, but they are in an acceptable location for polar orbits.  This can suit their local needs pretty well because a craft in equatorial orbit won't have a good view of their northernmost land anyway.  Polar orbits are launched in a north-south configuration -- in the US, we do these off the coast of California.  Polar orbits are useful for ground mapping, as you'll get longitudinal slices of the whole planet in view over a single orbit that can be combined to create a complete viewing of the Earth's surfaces.  The Russians have also invented some really peculiar orbits that give them more time viewing the northern hemisphere than the southern hemisphere, so they've got their needs covered.

Launches over land are controlled by local governments.  If I remember correctly, the US military is pretty interested in what you launch on US soil, while the FAA is interested in what you land here.  The FAA's number one priority with experimental craft is to make sure you don't crash into anyone else -- they don't really care if you blow yourself up.

As far as I know, water landing is not governed by pretty much anything, so a floating platform avoids all the legal hassles of a dry landing and avoids the damage of a traditional splash-down (water damage, rapid deceleration).  The other benefit is that if you fuck up re-entry a bit and won't be exactly where you expect, the floating platform could find you.  You do that over land you and you might splat instead.

AlanStache

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2016, 11:22:26 AM »
Quote
... The other benefit is that if you fuck up re-entry a bit and won't be exactly where you expect, the floating platform could find you.  You do that over land you and you might splat instead

Does the platform change locations in response to the rocket coming down?  Could it move any useful distance in the hand full of minutes between max-altitude and min-altitude?  I had assumed that boaty was told to maintain a specific lat/long for a specific launch and the rocket went there (with feedback loops etc).  Are there any real tech details out on this or is SpaceX staying quite? 

Chranstronaut

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2016, 11:23:19 AM »
While SpaceX is WAY ahead of Blue Origin, and that the challenges of going straight up, then straight down, are much less than the ballistic trajectory the SpaceX rocket uses, I wonder how Blue Origin has the confidence to do their testing over land?

https://www.blueorigin.com/news#youtubeYU3J-jKb75g

I don't care which of these two wins - we make parts for both of 'em. :)

Blue Origin's business goals are entirely different.  Their motto is "gradually ferocious" where SpaceX's is "Get Elon Musk on Mars before he dies."  I had a college lecture from someone at Blue Origin who told us the tortoises on their crest are referencing both the "slow and steady wins the race" mentality, and the mythology of the giant turtle holding the world on its back.

Blue Origin is actually kicking butt on their business plan.  They are extremely cautious as a company.  While they were an early competitor in CCP with NASA, they're not really competing with SpaceX in any meaningful way and that's probably fine for them.  If anything, I'm mourning the loss of Sierra Nevada Corp in that competition.  I think losing out to Boeing in the last round really set them back, and I personally don't think Boeing had proven at that time that they deserved it (certainly they will do fine, but they weren't as far along as they probably should have been).

sol

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2016, 11:25:05 AM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

We've spent 50 years deliberately launching rockets out over the ocean, just in case they don't end up where we want.  You don't want rocket debris raining down over the lower 48.

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2016, 11:35:30 AM »
Quote
... The other benefit is that if you fuck up re-entry a bit and won't be exactly where you expect, the floating platform could find you.  You do that over land you and you might splat instead

Does the platform change locations in response to the rocket coming down?  Could it move any useful distance in the hand full of minutes between max-altitude and min-altitude?  I had assumed that boaty was told to maintain a specific lat/long for a specific launch and the rocket went there (with feedback loops etc).  Are there any real tech details out on this or is SpaceX staying quite? 

Yeah, I don't think that barge is going to move very far in 3 minutes.

CmFtns

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2016, 01:53:47 PM »
Why not land on ... land as opposed to a moving barge?  For example the launch site?

It takes less fuel to land on the drone ship. For this launch in particular they said that they could have landed on land with a small margin for error fuel wise or land on the drone ship with a large margin for error fuel wise. Because they had already proven a landing at cape canaveral, and with the fact that many future high payload flights would require a water landing due to fuel, they decided to try to finally get a success on the drone ship on a relatively easy large margin for error flight.

mrpercentage

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2016, 08:47:16 PM »
War is effing expensive.

Yes! It is expensive in money and lives. Wall Street will tell you its good for the economy. They are wrong, its good for a few stocks.

NASA has done many things that have added to your lives for a fraction of the cost of the military and accomplished things to be proud of on a timeless scale.

From velcro to mold killing technology-- its really all over the place because it is government sanctioned innovation. Imagine what they could do with half of the military budget.

I really think I am voting Sanders man. He will get us out of war and veto a bunch of dumb crap while supporting things actually useful to the people. I bet he is a supporter of NASA. Until then we have SpaceX, Boeing, and Sierra Neveda-- and they should all get some of that missile money.

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2016, 05:35:29 AM »
War is effing expensive.

I really think I am voting Sanders man. He will get us out of war and veto a bunch of dumb crap while supporting things actually useful to the people. I bet he is a supporter of NASA. Until then we have SpaceX, Boeing, and Sierra Neveda-- and they should all get some of that missile money.
...what about Blue Origin?

Metric Mouse

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2016, 07:51:20 AM »
War is effing expensive.

Yes! It is expensive in money and lives. Wall Street will tell you its good for the economy. They are wrong, its good for a few stocks.

NASA has done many things that have added to your lives for a fraction of the cost of the military and accomplished things to be proud of on a timeless scale.

From velcro to mold killing technology-- its really all over the place because it is government sanctioned innovation. Imagine what they could do with half of the military budget.

I really think I am voting Sanders man. He will get us out of war and veto a bunch of dumb crap while supporting things actually useful to the people. I bet he is a supporter of NASA. Until then we have SpaceX, Boeing, and Sierra Neveda-- and they should all get some of that missile money.

Be careful about totally gutting the military. War may not be the answer, but the U.S. Navy protecting free trade for the world and ensuring energy access for our allies has clearly stopped more war than it has started.

Chranstronaut

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2016, 08:22:04 AM »
War is effing expensive.

I really think I am voting Sanders man. He will get us out of war and veto a bunch of dumb crap while supporting things actually useful to the people. I bet he is a supporter of NASA. Until then we have SpaceX, Boeing, and Sierra Neveda-- and they should all get some of that missile money.
...what about Blue Origin?

Boeing already gets that missile money... to build missiles.  As does Lockheed Martin, ATK, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, Aerojet, etc.  All these folks can build whatever shit we want to put into space, but currently build a ton of defense items because the fire hose of cash from the government is nice and sweet.  I see the same thing now that I work in automotive instead of aerospace.  We take money for military ground vehicles, essentially subsidizing the rest of the company during lean times.

I know an engineer at one of the above companies whose job description includes "lethality enhancement."

mrpercentage

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2016, 09:00:09 AM »
War is effing expensive.

I really think I am voting Sanders man. He will get us out of war and veto a bunch of dumb crap while supporting things actually useful to the people. I bet he is a supporter of NASA. Until then we have SpaceX, Boeing, and Sierra Neveda-- and they should all get some of that missile money.
...what about Blue Origin?

Boeing already gets that missile money... to build missiles.  As does Lockheed Martin, ATK, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, Aerojet, etc.  All these folks can build whatever shit we want to put into space, but currently build a ton of defense items because the fire hose of cash from the government is nice and sweet.  I see the same thing now that I work in automotive instead of aerospace.  We take money for military ground vehicles, essentially subsidizing the rest of the company during lean times.

I know an engineer at one of the above companies whose job description includes "lethality enhancement."

Exactly, our priorities are really screwed up. Lets stay in the Middle East to provide stabilization of an oil supply we don't need, and in fact is hurting our own industry, and energy independence, so we can shoot at ten year olds with RPG's who are trying to kill us because we killed his parents by total accident through collateral damage-- meanwhile forget Mars, and Social Security, and any senior that cant work but it too young for medicare because hell they have to buy Obama Care now-- its all good. Merica Fuck Yeah!

There is a loaded on wine celebrating my last shift of nights--- back to the light.

I support NASA and anyone who builds for them. The others only build death machines because our politicians are corrupt and our priorities are messed up. You can never guarantee someone will not sucker punch you. You can guarantee that the human race doesn't end with this world. Pay NASA a lot more by ending bullshit wars. Its not our job to police the entire damn world and put the bill on the middle class that doesn't have the tax loops to get out of it, or pay for it with the blood of the poor and Pat Tillmans of the world 

Chranstronaut

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2016, 09:43:36 AM »
I support NASA and anyone who builds for them. The others only build death machines because our politicians are corrupt and our priorities are messed up.

Every single one of those companies also build for NASA, in the past and right now.  Research parts often aren't fabricated or tested at NASA, they are contracted out or collaborated on.  Many NASA employees are actually contractors through these companies, although they might work full time on NASA sites.  The same is true for the atmospheric and earth science work.  They are pretty good at spreading the NASA money around, just like the defense money.  There just isn't as much of it.  Should be easy to swap the two, right?  :D

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2016, 10:36:09 AM »
I support NASA and anyone who builds for them. The others only build death machines because our politicians are corrupt and our priorities are messed up.

Every single one of those companies also build for NASA, in the past and right now.  Research parts often aren't fabricated or tested at NASA, they are contracted out or collaborated on.  Many NASA employees are actually contractors through these companies, although they might work full time on NASA sites.  The same is true for the atmospheric and earth science work.  They are pretty good at spreading the NASA money around, just like the defense money.  There just isn't as much of it.  Should be easy to swap the two, right?  :D

This is generally how federal agencies operate. The vast majority of federal dollars are passed through to some other entity like this. Only a few percent goes to federal employees. The rest pays for healthcare (e.g. Medicare), payments to retirees (SS), payments to state and local governments for various purposes (a huge amount of money, including Medicaid), grants and contracts to other institutions for various purposes (like doing research or providing services), payments to suppliers (bombs, planes, paperclips, etc). Some agencies have about 99% going out the door to 3rd parties. And even the people working in the agencies are often not federal employees. Many are contractors through firms like Northrup Grumman, Deloitte, etc (it would be MUCH cheaper to hire them directly--sometimes contractors cost about 3x what an employee would cost). The budget is a huge pass through to many different recipients.

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2016, 05:07:41 PM »
Sorry to derail from the awesome SpaceX landing. For the record I support the troops and am a veteran myself but I am tired of wars that will not end and the lies that support them. I probably shouldn't type after drinking just enough to remove all filters

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2016, 10:26:19 AM »
They've done it again. Hopefully they can keep their success rolling. Drone ship footage starts around the 38:15 mark. It was an early morning launch, so no chase helicopter video this time unfortunately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bMeDj76ig

nereo

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2016, 10:34:39 AM »
They've done it again. Hopefully they can keep their success rolling. Drone ship footage starts around the 38:15 mark. It was an early morning launch, so no chase helicopter video this time unfortunately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bMeDj76ig

I'm guessing this is a completely different 1st-stage booster than what they launched last month?  Any updates on how that one fared once they got in back and started examining it?

awesome.... love the enthusiasm and technological leaps!

forummm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2016, 11:04:42 AM »
They've done it again. Hopefully they can keep their success rolling. Drone ship footage starts around the 38:15 mark. It was an early morning launch, so no chase helicopter video this time unfortunately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bMeDj76ig

I'm guessing this is a completely different 1st-stage booster than what they launched last month?  Any updates on how that one fared once they got in back and started examining it?

awesome.... love the enthusiasm and technological leaps!

Not a big deal. Only 8 times harder than the last time.

Luke Warm

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2016, 11:13:33 AM »
nice!

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2016, 11:39:43 AM »
are there people on that barge when they land the rocket? or are they nearby to hop on board to tie it down and drive it back to port.
Pretty sure I saw it described as a "drone ship" elsewhere. No other details though.

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2016, 01:50:32 PM »
They've done it again. Hopefully they can keep their success rolling. Drone ship footage starts around the 38:15 mark. It was an early morning launch, so no chase helicopter video this time unfortunately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bMeDj76ig

I'm guessing this is a completely different 1st-stage booster than what they launched last month?  Any updates on how that one fared once they got in back and started examining it?

awesome.... love the enthusiasm and technological leaps!

Yes, it was a different booster. I haven't really read anything regarding the condition of the first one. Musk stated in an interview that they do plan to fly the first one again, maybe even as early as June. I'm hoping as it gets close to flying again a journalist does a piece on what kind of refurbishments and stuff it went under. We'll see.

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2016, 01:52:57 PM »
They've done it again. Hopefully they can keep their success rolling. Drone ship footage starts around the 38:15 mark. It was an early morning launch, so no chase helicopter video this time unfortunately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bMeDj76ig

I'm guessing this is a completely different 1st-stage booster than what they launched last month?  Any updates on how that one fared once they got in back and started examining it?

awesome.... love the enthusiasm and technological leaps!

Not a big deal. Only 8 times harder than the last time.


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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2016, 02:21:46 PM »
It was a much harder landing since this was a GTO orbit (Geosynchronous tranfer orbit, apogee approx 36,000 km). So the first stage was going 3 times as fast and had to slow down using 3 of the 9 engines.

The last time, it was an insertion into LEO (Low earth orbit, approx 400km). Just needed one of the 9 engines to slow down and land.

What a great achievement!

CmFtns

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2016, 02:38:06 PM »
I forgot to go outside and see it this morning... sooooo early but awesome they did it again!

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket booster on drone ship
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2016, 07:55:08 AM »
some cool shots of the landing from the barge cams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqLz9ni0Bo