Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 838333 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7950 on: July 23, 2019, 01:15:04 PM »
Johnson will finally get to show everyone the amazing plan he had when he was campaigning for Brexit.
Is this anything like the "amazing, beautiful' plan for health care in the US to replace the ACA?
Somewhat similar, because it is entirely dependent on negotiating an agreement with people who've been saying for the last year that they aren't interested in negotiating, have no incentive to negotiate and are entirely prepared to wash their hands of the whole thing.
oh, ok... so basically if we ignore the problem it should resolve itself in our favor?
If you find someone who thinks they know what will happen you will have found someone who is wrong.

Agreed if you're talking about specifics.  But it's a pretty safe bet that Brexit will be a shit show.

runbikerun

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7951 on: July 23, 2019, 01:59:18 PM »
It will be a fucking disaster of epic, country-splintering proportions. Johnson enters office as the prime minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he could realistically leave office as the prime minister of England and Wales. He's going to be ripped to pieces by the EU's negotiation team, and all his idiot promises will burn to the ground. He's a stupid person's idea of a smart person, an undeserving beneficiary of British class prejudices, and fundamentally not fit for the job. It is some small consolation that as Ireland scrambles to cope with the perfect storm of English idiocy, we will at least get to see Boris Fucking Johnson be exposed as the shallow, arrogant moron he is.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7952 on: July 23, 2019, 02:06:22 PM »
It will be a fucking disaster of epic, country-splintering proportions. Johnson enters office as the prime minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he could realistically leave office as the prime minister of England and Wales. He's going to be ripped to pieces by the EU's negotiation team, and all his idiot promises will burn to the ground. He's a stupid person's idea of a smart person, an undeserving beneficiary of British class prejudices, and fundamentally not fit for the job. It is some small consolation that as Ireland scrambles to cope with the perfect storm of English idiocy, we will at least get to see Boris Fucking Johnson be exposed as the shallow, arrogant moron he is.

Huh, that's what I thought would happen to Trump. And in a way, it has, but unfortunately the people we really wanted to see it are going to incredible lengths to remain in denial. We shall see.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7953 on: July 23, 2019, 02:13:27 PM »
It's even worse (wrt to Trump): he's just one or two lucky breaks away from being exalted as a Saint for decades to come.

You think you're tired of hearing about how great Reagan was? Imagine what social conservatives will be saying in 2030 if SCOTUS overturns Roe in 2020, or if we get teachers carrying firearms in 2022.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7954 on: July 23, 2019, 02:17:31 PM »
It's even worse (wrt to Trump): he's just one or two lucky breaks away from being exalted as a Saint for decades to come.

You think you're tired of hearing about how great Reagan was? Imagine what social conservatives will be saying in 2030 if SCOTUS overturns Roe in 2020, or if we get teachers carrying firearms in 2022.

um... "in retrospect that was a really bad idea."?
At least that's what I hope they'd come to realize, particularly with regard to arming teachers. There's no scenario in which that ends well...


runbikerun

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7955 on: July 23, 2019, 02:22:28 PM »
It will be a fucking disaster of epic, country-splintering proportions. Johnson enters office as the prime minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he could realistically leave office as the prime minister of England and Wales. He's going to be ripped to pieces by the EU's negotiation team, and all his idiot promises will burn to the ground. He's a stupid person's idea of a smart person, an undeserving beneficiary of British class prejudices, and fundamentally not fit for the job. It is some small consolation that as Ireland scrambles to cope with the perfect storm of English idiocy, we will at least get to see Boris Fucking Johnson be exposed as the shallow, arrogant moron he is.

Huh, that's what I thought would happen to Trump. And in a way, it has, but unfortunately the people we really wanted to see it are going to incredible lengths to remain in denial. We shall see.

There is a very, very big difference between Johnson and Trump.

Trump is the president of the United States, which is still the dominant world power despite the rise of China and the gigantic scale of quiet leverage the EU wields. Nobody is in a position to slap the metaphorical shit out of Trump.

Johnson is the prime minister of the UK,, which merely thinks it's a major world power,  and is entering into a negotiation with an enormously experienced and massively more powerful EU, which has a strong incentive to make an example of him to show other member states what happens when you start pricking around. On top of that, it's a safe bet that everyone who works in the EU's offices legitimately despises Johnson thanks to his years of publishing outright lies at the Spectator. There is a real possibility that they will destroy him permanently as a public figure.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7956 on: July 23, 2019, 02:39:08 PM »
It will be a fucking disaster of epic, country-splintering proportions. Johnson enters office as the prime minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he could realistically leave office as the prime minister of England and Wales. He's going to be ripped to pieces by the EU's negotiation team, and all his idiot promises will burn to the ground. He's a stupid person's idea of a smart person, an undeserving beneficiary of British class prejudices, and fundamentally not fit for the job. It is some small consolation that as Ireland scrambles to cope with the perfect storm of English idiocy, we will at least get to see Boris Fucking Johnson be exposed as the shallow, arrogant moron he is.

Huh, that's what I thought would happen to Trump. And in a way, it has, but unfortunately the people we really wanted to see it are going to incredible lengths to remain in denial. We shall see.

There is a very, very big difference between Johnson and Trump.

Trump is the president of the United States, which is still the dominant world power despite the rise of China and the gigantic scale of quiet leverage the EU wields. Nobody is in a position to slap the metaphorical shit out of Trump.

Johnson is the prime minister of the UK,, which merely thinks it's a major world power,  and is entering into a negotiation with an enormously experienced and massively more powerful EU, which has a strong incentive to make an example of him to show other member states what happens when you start pricking around. On top of that, it's a safe bet that everyone who works in the EU's offices legitimately despises Johnson thanks to his years of publishing outright lies at the Spectator. There is a real possibility that they will destroy him permanently as a public figure.
I think this is a pretty good read of the view from the EU side of things. I would shed no tears at seeing someone like Johnson being publicly humiliated. I get no delight in the harm that will come to the UK/Britain/England (however you want to split it) as a result of this misguided experiment.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7957 on: July 24, 2019, 07:25:35 AM »
Johnson and Farage have suffered basically no consequences as a result of their campaigning for Brexit. That is about to change for one of them.


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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7958 on: July 24, 2019, 08:23:07 AM »
Johnson and Farage have suffered basically no consequences as a result of their campaigning for Brexit. That is about to change for one of them.

Johnson may find that the most difficult thing about his new job is not being able to openly lie any more.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7959 on: July 24, 2019, 08:34:42 AM »
Mueller's testimony is ongoing, so far mostly re-hashing what he put in his 400+ page report.

If nothing else I think this is a rare do-over for how the media covers his findings.  Team DJT was mostly effective (including Barr with the assist) to obfuscate and distract when the original report was dropped, and avoid the most damning conclusions within.  Perhaps this time more Americans will see the depth of his attempted obstructionism and willingness to work with foreign hostile powers?

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7960 on: July 24, 2019, 11:48:08 AM »
I'm at least relieved that Senator Richard Burr finally admitted he'd read the report. I guess he figures he won't face a primary challenger for 3 years, by which time Trump could be out of WH.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7961 on: July 24, 2019, 12:56:12 PM »
Mueller's testimony is ongoing, so far mostly re-hashing what he put in his 400+ page report.

If nothing else I think this is a rare do-over for how the media covers his findings.  Team DJT was mostly effective (including Barr with the assist) to obfuscate and distract when the original report was dropped, and avoid the most damning conclusions within.  Perhaps this time more Americans will see the depth of his attempted obstructionism and willingness to work with foreign hostile powers?

Why would you think that? Trump defenders are not going to defect suddenly no matter what Mueller says. Trump says there is no obstruction therefore, his supporters will believe him. Trump continues to stick it to the libs (and the rest of the country), and that is all that matters for them.

By the River

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7962 on: July 24, 2019, 01:24:01 PM »
Mueller's testimony is ongoing, so far mostly re-hashing what he put in his 400+ page report.

If nothing else I think this is a rare do-over for how the media covers his findings.  Team DJT was mostly effective (including Barr with the assist) to obfuscate and distract when the original report was dropped, and avoid the most damning conclusions within.  Perhaps this time more Americans will see the depth of his attempted obstructionism and willingness to work with foreign hostile powers?

Not going to matter one bit.   Fox News will take an exchange favorable to their case and run with it, CNN and MSNBC will take a favorable exchange to their case and run with it.  People paying attention will have their confirmations emboldened and people not paying attention will not pay attention.   We will be at the same point tomorrow as we were yesterday. 

Cool Friend

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7963 on: July 25, 2019, 02:15:52 PM »
After Trump gets away with all of this, why should any American obey the law?

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7964 on: July 25, 2019, 02:34:21 PM »
After Trump gets away with all of this, why should any American obey the law?

Because apparently the US president can constitutionally be politically protected from the law. That's what I learned from the Mueller hearing. We obviously need an amendment to explicitly state that no office is free from indictment.

Samuel

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7965 on: July 25, 2019, 02:55:15 PM »
After Trump gets away with all of this, why should any American obey the law?

Because apparently the US president can constitutionally be politically protected from the law. That's what I learned from the Mueller hearing. We obviously need an amendment to explicitly state that no office is free from indictment.

Yet again we see a system unprepared for Trump level shamelessness. The rationale for the DOJ policy seems good (separation of powers, it's up to Congress to impeach and remove a misbehaving President) but it assumes a certain level of good faith on everyone's part.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7966 on: July 25, 2019, 02:56:14 PM »
I am as anti-Trump as they come, but I was pretty bored with the whole Mueller thing yesterday. We already knew Mueller is too disciplined to waiver from his message. The spectacle of watching the GOP drag his name and credibility through the muck in order to protect Trump left me agape though. It was just thoroughly disgusting. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave yada yada yada. I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Pelosi is steadfast in her commitment to not pursue impeachment. She thinks it will ultimately be a losing cause.

My faith in the USA will be largely healed in 2020 when folks from all walks of life come out in droves to end this dumpster fire.

Laserjet3051

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7967 on: July 25, 2019, 05:12:51 PM »
Fixed it for you.

I am as anti-Trump as they come, but I was pretty bored with the whole Mueller thing yesterday. We already knew Mueller is too disciplined to waiver from his message. The spectacle of watching the GOP drag his name and credibility through the muck in order to protect Trump left me agape though. It was just thoroughly disgusting. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave yada yada yada. I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Pelosi is steadfast in her commitment to not pursue impeachment. She thinks it will ultimately be a losing cause.

My faith in the USA will be largely healed in 2020 when IF folks from all walks of life come out in droves to end this dumpster fire.

ketchup

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7968 on: July 25, 2019, 05:40:07 PM »
Fixed it for you.

I am as anti-Trump as they come, but I was pretty bored with the whole Mueller thing yesterday. We already knew Mueller is too disciplined to waiver from his message. The spectacle of watching the GOP drag his name and credibility through the muck in order to protect Trump left me agape though. It was just thoroughly disgusting. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave yada yada yada. I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Pelosi is steadfast in her commitment to not pursue impeachment. She thinks it will ultimately be a losing cause.

My faith in the USA will be largely healed in 2020 when IF folks from all walks of life come out in droves to end this dumpster fire.
I admire your optimism.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7969 on: July 26, 2019, 07:59:33 AM »
I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Of course he could.  The GOP hated Trump . . . until it turned out that he embodies everything that Republican voters want in a person and president.  Now they're falling over each other to support and back up anything he says or does - regardless of the moral implications.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7970 on: July 26, 2019, 08:52:04 AM »
I am as anti-Trump as they come, but I was pretty bored with the whole Mueller thing yesterday. We already knew Mueller is too disciplined to waiver from his message. The spectacle of watching the GOP drag his name and credibility through the muck in order to protect Trump left me agape though. It was just thoroughly disgusting. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave yada yada yada. I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Pelosi is steadfast in her commitment to not pursue impeachment. She thinks it will ultimately be a losing cause.

My faith in the USA will be largely healed in 2020 when folks from all walks of life come out in droves to end this dumpster fire.

Yeah, I am conflicted by this. It is obvious from the way Mueller is a by the book person, that DOJ has the rule that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and that any censure of the president should be through congress. There is enough, more than enough information in Mueller's report to impeach the president. Take your pick. Him and his team cooperating with Russian actors. Lying to the Mueller team (Mueller confirmed this). And Trump impeding and trying to stop the investigation, multiple times. They could not get Trump for lying under oath because he refused to testify under oath. By all rights, and when history views this, they will see this as a failure of the US political process, that Trump was not impeached.

But, Pelosi is right. The Republicans (save a few who could not in conscience vote with the crowd) will not on POLITICAL grounds, impeach Trump. History will NOT be kind to them. 

I feel that with the current issues of a lot of voter disenfranchishment (gerrymandering, voter ID and throwing people off voter rolls), this issues have not been fixed, and our own intelligence have said that Russian interference is expected to ramp up again for 2020. Who knows what will happen this next election. And if Trump gets elected a 2nd time, the statute of limitations for obstruction of justice is 5 years, and will run out for the things that happened in 2014-2016. So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around. Sessions in particular has been consistently against any legislation that helps Federal and state elections to be a) secure from domestic and foreign interference and b) open to all eligible voters. My prediction: this is going to be one of the dirtiest elections YET. Expect lots and lots of negging, name calling and crazy rumors including doctored videos smearing democratic candidates. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/454766-senate-intel-releases-long-awaited-report-on-2016-election-security
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 09:02:20 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7971 on: July 26, 2019, 09:01:37 AM »
So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around.
The Russians have a similarly strong motivation to have Trump re-elected even apart from the benefits to them of puppet Trump: they are not going to want the  bad publicity of such high profile criminal convictions so closely related to their own espionage activities.  Expect their efforts of 2016 to be repeated more widely and with more force.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7972 on: July 26, 2019, 09:16:32 AM »
I am as anti-Trump as they come, but I was pretty bored with the whole Mueller thing yesterday. We already knew Mueller is too disciplined to waiver from his message. The spectacle of watching the GOP drag his name and credibility through the muck in order to protect Trump left me agape though. It was just thoroughly disgusting. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave yada yada yada. I bet he could get a GOP congressman to lick his boot on primetime television.

Pelosi is steadfast in her commitment to not pursue impeachment. She thinks it will ultimately be a losing cause.

My faith in the USA will be largely healed in 2020 when folks from all walks of life come out in droves to end this dumpster fire.

Yeah, I am conflicted by this. It is obvious from the way Mueller is a by the book person, that DOJ has the rule that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and that any censure of the president should be through congress. There is enough, more than enough information in Mueller's report to impeach the president. Take your pick. Him and his team cooperating with Russian actors. Lying to the Mueller team (Mueller confirmed this). And Trump impeding and trying to stop the investigation, multiple times. They could not get Trump for lying under oath because he refused to testify under oath. By all rights, and when history views this, they will see this as a failure of the US political process, that Trump was not impeached.

But, Pelosi is right. The Republicans (save a few who could not in conscience vote with the crowd) will not on POLITICAL grounds, impeach Trump. History will NOT be kind to them. 

I feel that with the current issues of a lot of voter disenfranchishment (gerrymandering, voter ID and throwing people off voter rolls), this issues have not been fixed, and our own intelligence have said that Russian interference is expected to ramp up again for 2020. Who knows what will happen this next election. And if Trump gets elected a 2nd time, the statute of limitations for obstruction of justice is 5 years, and will run out for the things that happened in 2014-2016. So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around. Sessions in particular has been consistently against any legislation that helps Federal and state elections to be a) secure from domestic and foreign interference and b) open to all eligible voters. My prediction: this is going to be one of the dirtiest elections YET. Expect lots and lots of negging, name calling and crazy rumors including doctored videos smearing democratic candidates. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/454766-senate-intel-releases-long-awaited-report-on-2016-election-security

So...you think Trump will win re-election in 2020, but then stop committing new crimes so that the statute of limitations will save him? Zero lawlessness and corruption from 2019-2024?

Cool Friend

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7973 on: July 26, 2019, 10:57:57 AM »
Mitch McConnell is a traitor and an enemy to democracy.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mitch-mcconnell-blocks-election-security-bill/

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7974 on: July 26, 2019, 10:59:46 AM »
So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around.
The Russians have a similarly strong motivation to have Trump re-elected even apart from the benefits to them of puppet Trump: they are not going to want the  bad publicity of such high profile criminal convictions so closely related to their own espionage activities.  Expect their efforts of 2016 to be repeated more widely and with more force.

The US utterly failed to condemn the interference in the last election.  Why would anyone expect Russia to behave differently?  Interfering in elections from foreign powers is OK to the Republican party. . . as long as they're going to win as a result.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7975 on: July 26, 2019, 11:00:08 AM »
So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around.
The Russians have a similarly strong motivation to have Trump re-elected even apart from the benefits to them of puppet Trump: they are not going to want the  bad publicity of such high profile criminal convictions so closely related to their own espionage activities.  Expect their efforts of 2016 to be repeated more widely and with more force.

The US utterly failed to condemn the interference in the last election.  Why would anyone expect Russia to behave differently?  Interfering in elections from foreign powers is OK to the Republican party. . . as long as they're going to win as a result.

gotta own the libs, no matter what!

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7976 on: July 26, 2019, 11:01:27 AM »
So, Trump has an extremely strong motivation to make sure he wins this time around.
The Russians have a similarly strong motivation to have Trump re-elected even apart from the benefits to them of puppet Trump: they are not going to want the  bad publicity of such high profile criminal convictions so closely related to their own espionage activities.  Expect their efforts of 2016 to be repeated more widely and with more force.

The US utterly failed to condemn the interference in the last election.  Why would anyone expect Russia to behave differently?  Interfering in elections from foreign powers is OK to the Republican party. . . as long as they're going to win as a result.

gotta own the libs, no matter what!

Thanks Obama!

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7977 on: July 26, 2019, 11:30:34 AM »
He has a strong motivation to stay in office because of other domestic crimes, whether it is income tax evasion, business fraud, and rape of underage girls (Epstein trial). Heck I'm sure Trump would like to die in office. Crazy that the office of the president, rather than being the office of the ultimate public servant and an honor, is now is being used as a hiding place for a con man.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-one-of-trumps-biggest-legal-threats-is-new-yorks-attorney-general/

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7978 on: July 26, 2019, 12:55:02 PM »
He has a strong motivation to stay in office because of other domestic crimes, whether it is income tax evasion, business fraud, and rape of underage girls (Epstein trial). Heck I'm sure Trump would like to die in office. Crazy that the office of the president, rather than being the office of the ultimate public servant and an honor, is now is being used as a hiding place for a con man.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-one-of-trumps-biggest-legal-threats-is-new-yorks-attorney-general/

You hit the nail on the head! Hiding place for a con man! LOL!

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7979 on: July 26, 2019, 04:59:50 PM »
On another forum I'm on, there's reflexive Trump-love. Whatever he does must be good, simply because Trump did it.

On this one, there's reflexive Trump-hate. Whatever he does must be bad, simply because Trump did it.

I think this really is a bigger issue than Trump: polarisation. It's not good for your country.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7980 on: July 26, 2019, 05:20:03 PM »
On another forum I'm on, there's reflexive Trump-love. Whatever he does must be good, simply because Trump did it.

On this one, there's reflexive Trump-hate. Whatever he does must be bad, simply because Trump did it.

I think this really is a bigger issue than Trump: polarisation. It's not good for your country.

I really donít see that. I personally do give Trump credit when he does something good. Itís just that itís incredibly rare.

On the other hand, 90% of what he does is horrible. So, sorry, the fact that conservatives can praise that 90% is not quite the same as everyone else being reluctant to highlight the 10% that is neutral or positive ó which normalizes this absolute shitshow.

oldtoyota

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7981 on: July 26, 2019, 06:40:26 PM »
On another forum I'm on, there's reflexive Trump-love. Whatever he does must be good, simply because Trump did it.

On this one, there's reflexive Trump-hate. Whatever he does must be bad, simply because Trump did it.

I think this really is a bigger issue than Trump: polarisation. It's not good for your country.

Even criminals do nice things sometimes. Bill Cosby is probably nice sometimes, too.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7982 on: July 26, 2019, 06:52:10 PM »
I really donít see that. I personally do give Trump credit when he does something good. Itís just that itís incredibly rare.
"I'm objective. It's just that he's objectively awful." Ayup.

It's part of modern American culture. It's hard to see this when you're part of it. A fish can't see the water.

Just be aware that denying any success of your opponent and denying any failures of yourself makes it more likely the opponent will win next time. Successful political parties steal the good ideas of their opponents. In other words, if you want Trump to win again, keep doing exactly what you're doing.

Omy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7983 on: July 26, 2019, 07:10:18 PM »
So if democrats start praising him, his base will abandon him??

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7984 on: July 26, 2019, 07:28:11 PM »
I really donít see that. I personally do give Trump credit when he does something good. Itís just that itís incredibly rare.
"I'm objective. It's just that he's objectively awful." Ayup.

It's part of modern American culture. It's hard to see this when you're part of it. A fish can't see the water.

Just be aware that denying any success of your opponent and denying any failures of yourself makes it more likely the opponent will win next time. Successful political parties steal the good ideas of their opponents. In other words, if you want Trump to win again, keep doing exactly what you're doing.

Um. A, he is objectively awful. B, i said I give him credit where he is due.

You do not listen. You just affirm what you already believe.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7985 on: July 26, 2019, 08:27:52 PM »
The first step act, which was an attempt at criminal just reform, is a good start in the right direction.

Other than that, I can't think of any other good things that have come out of the Trump administration.
In fact, it's been mostly bad on so many different fronts.

gaja

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7986 on: July 26, 2019, 08:40:18 PM »
This might not have been a big news case on your side of the pond, but Iím flabbergasted, and even the PM of my country has said she is puzzled* by Trumpís outbursts towards Sweden:

https://www.google.no/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-asap-rocky-free-latest-news-sweden-a9022071.html%3famp

ďSweden and Prime Minister Stefan Lofven have been very clear in the dialogue with both the White House and directly with the American president, that in Sweden everyone is equal before the law and that the government cannot interfere in legal proceedings," the spokesman said in a text message.
(...)
Trump has said he would personally vouch for Mayers' bail. Sweden does not have a bail system.ď


*she is famous/infamous for not criticizing anyone.her being puzzled is equal to someone else screaming obscenities.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7987 on: July 26, 2019, 08:43:13 PM »
Trump brings that out in people all over the planet.

ysette9

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7988 on: July 26, 2019, 08:52:55 PM »
His idea for more transparency in medical pricing sounds reasonable on the surface. If that achieves some level of cost reduction then Iíd be happy for that success. If he had followed through with some early campaign talk of improving healthcare access then that would have been good. I believe he had a line item in his budget proposal for family leave. That is desperately needed and has been for over 50 years. Iíd jump up and down for joy if that were the case.

But Iím having a hard time wracking my brain for positive things he has accomplished. On one hand there is sometimes talk and hand-waving about maybe doing some good things and on the other side there are the things he has done, which are overwhelmingly negative.

Feel free to correct anything I have overlooked. I admit to self censoring when it comes to news because it detracts from the joy of my life and causes a sense of hopelessness of my lack of power and fear for my childrenís future.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7989 on: July 27, 2019, 03:09:23 AM »
So if democrats start praising him, his base will abandon him??
Probably.

"If the Other Guys like it, it must be bad." Motto of supporters of either party.

KBecks

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7990 on: July 27, 2019, 05:09:27 AM »
Speaking of polarization, the other day, I was listening to the radio and the host mentioned the time when Republican legislators were shot at during a baseball/softball practice.  Remember that?  It was 2017, wow, only two years ago, but it feels like forever.  I had almost forgotten it. 

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7991 on: July 27, 2019, 06:13:02 AM »
Speaking of polarization, the other day, I was listening to the radio and the host mentioned the time when Republican legislators were shot at during a baseball/softball practice.  Remember that?  It was 2017, wow, only two years ago, but it feels like forever.  I had almost forgotten it.
Not only shot at, one of them was hit (Scalise) was hit and seriously injured, along with an aid, a lobbies and two LEOs responding.  I remember we went on lockdown for about an hour.
Yeah, its amazing how that feels like so long ago.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7992 on: July 27, 2019, 06:51:42 AM »
Speaking of polarization, the other day, I was listening to the radio and the host mentioned the time when Republican legislators were shot at during a baseball/softball practice.  Remember that?  It was 2017, wow, only two years ago, but it feels like forever.  I had almost forgotten it.

Yep and everyone condemned the shooter. I mean it's not like Dems claimed there were "very fine people on both sides." And that is an extremely poor example of polarization. It was a great example showing how both sides can come together to condemn horrific acts. When will the Republicans come together to condemn Trump's overt racism?

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7993 on: July 27, 2019, 07:31:23 AM »
I really donít see that. I personally do give Trump credit when he does something good. Itís just that itís incredibly rare.
"I'm objective. It's just that he's objectively awful." Ayup.

It's part of modern American culture. It's hard to see this when you're part of it. A fish can't see the water.

Just be aware that denying any success of your opponent and denying any failures of yourself makes it more likely the opponent will win next time. Successful political parties steal the good ideas of their opponents. In other words, if you want Trump to win again, keep doing exactly what you're doing.

So, as an impartial observer would you be able to highlight a few (maybe just keep it down to ten) of the things Trump has done that you consider great for the country/world?

KBecks

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7994 on: July 27, 2019, 07:45:48 AM »
I'll help. These are general and you may want to pick at whether he gets credit or not, but when you ask if you and your family are better off now than a few years ago... maybe this will count in the positives column.

- People were freaking over North Korea. The nuclear threat has been subdued.
- Trump is not taking the bait to go fight in Iran
- Unemployment drops by nearly 2 percentage points
- The Tax Cuts and Jobs act -- I had to look this up, searching Trump and taxes gets a bunch of hits about his personal returns, but his changes to taxation benefited many people.

I have to look at what the White House says:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/

Oh yeah, 2 supreme court justices. :P

KBecks

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7995 on: July 27, 2019, 07:47:43 AM »
I also consider working on cracking down on Chinese intellectual property theft an important action.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7996 on: July 27, 2019, 08:44:17 AM »
As a conservative, how do you feel how the tax changes shifts away tax burden away from corporations and the ultra rich, and is increasing the deficit? Do you believe that the government has a responsibility to balance the budget? Trumps tax changes and budgets are increasing the deficit. And members of his administration have already come out to say that they will correct any balance challenges, by cutting things like ACA, medicaid, school lunches, as well as oversight on things that need oversight (epa, taxes). Seems penny-wise, pound foolish.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7997 on: July 27, 2019, 08:48:42 AM »
Negotiating better trade, improving our border security, control health costs, he isn't wrong that these are problem areas, he just has a heavy handed mean "your fired" way of approaching them.

You watch the night vision cameras at the border showing hundreds of people just running across, you have to agree there is some bit of an issue there on security.

accolay

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7998 on: July 27, 2019, 08:58:48 AM »
I'll help. These are general and you may want to pick at whether he gets credit or not, but when you ask if you and your family are better off now than a few years ago... maybe this will count in the positives column.

- People were freaking over North Korea. The nuclear threat has been subdued.
- Trump is not taking the bait to go fight in Iran
- Unemployment drops by nearly 2 percentage points
- The Tax Cuts and Jobs act -- I had to look this up, searching Trump and taxes gets a bunch of hits about his personal returns, but his changes to taxation benefited many people.

I have to look at what the White House says:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/

Oh yeah, 2 supreme court justices. :P

1. I'm not better off than I was a year ago: My federal income tax went up.
2. N Korea nuclear threat is still there. I'm not sure why anyone would think everything is a-ok. here's an article from today when I searched for "North Korea":
https://nypost.com/2019/07/27/north-korea-has-allegedly-built-a-dozen-nukes-since-singapore-summit/
3. If you remember, Trump almost started war with Iran. There is nothing you can tell me that wont make me believe it wasn't another adult that prevented Trump from giving the command. Or that watching Tucker Carlson told him to abort.
3. I'm glad the economy is good and unemployment is low. I can't give Trump credit for it though. Ask soybean farmers how they're doing. You say they're getting overly large payments for their crops now though? https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/07/25/npr-economists-say-trump-administration-is-over-paying-farmers-for-trade-losses
4. I know that the people at the top did well with tax cuts, like they always do with Republican administrations. See #1 about my taxes.
5. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jun/13/donald-trump/donald-trumps-boasts-about-accomplishments-office-/

Merrick Garland.


accolay

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7999 on: July 27, 2019, 09:06:11 AM »
Negotiating better trade, improving our border security, control health costs, he isn't wrong that these are problem areas, he just has a heavy handed mean "your fired" way of approaching them.

You watch the night vision cameras at the border showing hundreds of people just running across, you have to agree there is some bit of an issue there on security.

I'd say he has a heavy handed way of not knowing anything and ends up screwing it up. Any one of the "wins" Trump has had has some fine print caveat at the bottom. What "better" trade? should we ask farmers how that's going? How have health costs been controlled? (Thanks Obama) Where's that new and bigger and better health care plan he used to talk about? Ask anyone buying insulin how that's going.

I agree that there is an issue at our southern boarder. Maybe we should ask ourselves why these people are trying to come here (and not just because the US is awesome)? Couldn't be because we fucked with their economies and governments could it?