Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 229206 times)

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2650 on: July 07, 2018, 12:53:18 AM »
Getting back to charities, it appears (based on tax records) that Trump preferentially donated to charities that happened to decide to throw big parties at his Mar a Lago property.
WTF, I donated 5% of my income to Effective Altruism last year and they didn't throw a party at my place! Ripped off. Probably commies.
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2651 on: July 07, 2018, 01:45:03 AM »
Getting back to charities, it appears (based on tax records) that Trump preferentially donated to charities that happened to decide to throw big parties at his Mar a Lago property.
WTF, I donated 5% of my income to Effective Altruism last year and they didn't throw a party at my place! Ripped off. Probably commies.
Kyle, despite your profile pic showing you as Atlas-in-training, nobody cares what you say on the internet.  That doesn't mean they are communist.  If you actually do something altruistic IRL with a substantive sacrifice, you might be surprised that real people really are affected. 

For instance, we helped out our church this week getting set up for children's ministry and in a couple days.  We will soon see lots of kids entertained by the little bit of work we put in, while getting a wholesome message. 

I can't imagine, if you donate time and resources effectively in something you really believe in, how you can be disappointed.
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Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2652 on: July 07, 2018, 07:01:51 AM »
Kyle, despite your profile pic showing you as Atlas-in-training, nobody cares what you say on the internet.  That doesn't mean they are communist.
Your inability to detect sarcasm or irony marks you as humourless, most especially lacking any sense of humour about yourself. This is a characteristic Americans share with Germans and Arabs, which is of course why you all keep starting so many wars.

Relax.

Quote
For instance, we helped out our church this week getting set up for children's ministry and in a couple days.  We will soon see lots of kids entertained by the little bit of work we put in, while getting a wholesome message. 
But will the little buggers throw you a party? Hmmm?

Howcome Trump gets people throwing parties for him and we don't? It's not fair! I'm oppressed! I'm writing to my MP.
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OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2653 on: July 07, 2018, 07:43:11 AM »
Kyle, despite your profile pic showing you as Atlas-in-training, nobody cares what you say on the internet.  That doesn't mean they are communist.
Your inability to detect sarcasm or irony marks you as humourless, most especially lacking any sense of humour about yourself. This is a characteristic Americans share with Germans and Arabs, which is of course why you all keep starting so many wars.

Relax.

Your sarcasm was clear to me, but Iím not sure I can adequately convey how nasty the the political discourse is in this country right now. Itís understandable how tone could be missed in written text. Iíve been on the receiving end of worse comments that were definitely not sarcasm. Iím dreading my upcoming family reunion because several (the majority, I think) aunts/uncles/cousins think that Dear Leader is doing a fantastic job and people who donít support him blindly are not really American, and even my sweet elderly uncle thinks that the parents whose kids were stolen from them at the border had it coming to them because they chose to come here. Historically, my family has not been kind to people who donít fall in line with the group consensus (Iíve called it Borg before).

Quote
For instance, we helped out our church this week getting set up for children's ministry and in a couple days.  We will soon see lots of kids entertained by the little bit of work we put in, while getting a wholesome message. 
Quote
But will the little buggers throw you a party? Hmmm?

Howcome Trump gets people throwing parties for him and we don't? It's not fair! I'm oppressed! I'm writing to my MP.

Right? The far right wing swore up and down that Soros was going to set me up if I marched and became politically active. Almost 18 months later, Iím still waiting for my protest pay. Itís almost as though Fox, Alex Jones, and Breitbart were (gasp!) lying! Who would have ever suspected it?

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2654 on: July 07, 2018, 08:49:26 AM »
lacking any sense of humour about yourself. This is a characteristic Americans share with Germans and Arabs, which is of course why you all keep starting so many wars.

Nonsense.  We don't start wars because we are humorless.

We start wars because we hate brown people.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2655 on: July 07, 2018, 12:30:53 PM »
lacking any sense of humour about yourself. This is a characteristic Americans share with Germans and Arabs, which is of course why you all keep starting so many wars.

Nonsense.  We don't start wars because we are humorless.

We start wars because we hate brown people.

Start wars, steal children, abduct/detain/torture innocent people, remote control murder . . . Don't sell yourself short.  There's a lot of hard work that America puts into hating brown people.
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dividendman

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2656 on: July 07, 2018, 01:35:13 PM »
It's amazing that it's almost two years since the election and I am still in complete awe that the Americans actually elected Trump.

It reminds me of Tyrion Lannister talking to Joffrey after Joffrey ordered the murder of the citizens of Kings Landing for throwing stuff at him. Tyrion says to Joffrey, exasperated after escaping the mob and getting to the Red Keep:

"We've had vicious kings and we've had idiot kings, but I don't know if we've ever been cursed with a vicious idiot before!"

I wonder if Joffrey would be a better President.

Rosy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2657 on: July 07, 2018, 06:08:17 PM »
(What a fantastic Time cover.)

Great TIME magazine cover.
The fake news one? Yes that will go down in infamy.

The picture says loud and clear "Welcome to America". The photographer never misrepresented the photo.
Time used it  - bravo.
It stands for all those children whose faces are not allowed to be shown - 3000 children - and yes, you are right, this will go down in infamy.

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2658 on: July 07, 2018, 06:16:37 PM »
Hard to believe we still have a solid year and a half to go before the next election.  Meanwhile, China is going after Trump supporters - https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-tariffs-hit-trump-counties-harder-1530869400

and the immigration fiasco continues to escalate https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children/judge-orders-u-s-to-provide-list-of-separated-migrant-children-idUSKBN1JW1W0

Quote
The U.S. government must provide a list by Saturday evening of the estimated 100 children under the age of 5 who were separated from their parents when entering the United States, a federal judge ordered on Friday.

How did this world replace the one that I used to live in?  Surely I'm reading some really good new fictional story novelist (akin to Tom Clancy) and I can close the book at the end and everything will go back to normal!

It's not just China, we are all targeting districts that support Donald Trump and/or Republicans.   Horribly unfair, but so far nobody is tariffing the Trump organization directly.     I'm curious how this could backfire, but who can say what the future will bring?

I too keep wondering what happened to the hero who is supposed to save the world from the actions of a deranged prez...

Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2659 on: July 08, 2018, 03:08:23 AM »
From an interesting blog article on the alt-right, the ctrl-left, and the esc-centre, this insightful comment:


Quote
I think the most interesting aspect of Trumpism is the way in which it has evolved a means of countering activists of any stripe.

Hitherto, anyone attempting to defend a set of social norms against a highly motivated activist group has suffered from what I call ďthe energy gapĒ Ė they are not capable of mustering the same kind of moral fervour as those activists who are determined to bring about change, and so are doomed to lose over the long run.

Trump has shown that the counter is not to engage activists in debate, or attempt to nullify their arguments, but to keep their moral righteousness permanently at fever pitch i.e. to use the activistsí own energy against them, and let mental and psychological exhaustion gradually do its thing.


Others here have mentioned something along these lines, about people no longer getting as indignant about the stupidities, since they're so regular. It's a worthwhile article to read, since so much of the opposition to Trump is self-defeating.

Of course, as I've said many times before, it's my honest hope that the US keeps re-electing Trump and his ever-rotating cast of clowns and miscreants for as long it takes to reduce the US to a position where it can't bother the rest of us any more. But while this is great for 95% of the world, it'll be terrible for the US. So, many of you should perhaps rethink your strategy.
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MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2660 on: July 08, 2018, 05:31:08 AM »
lacking any sense of humour about yourself. This is a characteristic Americans share with Germans and Arabs, which is of course why you all keep starting so many wars.

Nonsense.  We don't start wars because we are humorless.

We start wars because we hate brown people.

Start wars, steal children, abduct/detain/torture innocent people, remote control murder . . . Don't sell yourself short.  There's a lot of hard work that America puts into hating brown people.

Don't forget electing a racist as President.

Wexler

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2661 on: July 08, 2018, 12:41:58 PM »
From an interesting blog article on the alt-right, the ctrl-left, and the esc-centre, this insightful comment:


Quote
I think the most interesting aspect of Trumpism is the way in which it has evolved a means of countering activists of any stripe.

Hitherto, anyone attempting to defend a set of social norms against a highly motivated activist group has suffered from what I call ďthe energy gapĒ Ė they are not capable of mustering the same kind of moral fervour as those activists who are determined to bring about change, and so are doomed to lose over the long run.

Trump has shown that the counter is not to engage activists in debate, or attempt to nullify their arguments, but to keep their moral righteousness permanently at fever pitch i.e. to use the activistsí own energy against them, and let mental and psychological exhaustion gradually do its thing.


Others here have mentioned something along these lines, about people no longer getting as indignant about the stupidities, since they're so regular. It's a worthwhile article to read, since so much of the opposition to Trump is self-defeating.

Of course, as I've said many times before, it's my honest hope that the US keeps re-electing Trump and his ever-rotating cast of clowns and miscreants for as long it takes to reduce the US to a position where it can't bother the rest of us any more. But while this is great for 95% of the world, it'll be terrible for the US. So, many of you should perhaps rethink your strategy.


Fever pitch activism has certainly worked out well for the anti-abortion movement, and I don't recall anyone wringing their hands about their lack of civility.    I think there's this idea that the left (or The Left) is all antifa breaking windows and women's studies majors taking time off from drum circles to yell at people about pronouns.  This is a convenient myth for republicans to perpetuate.  Is there any more nonsense movement than Walk Away, which is just fan fiction that young people are so tired of busybody leftists that they are embracing Trump?  Sure, Jan.
 
In reality, most politically active people I know on the democratic side are middle-aged people who are working or retired.  The backbone of political activism right now is suburban women who are pissed as hell about Trump, but they still have time to give you some clippings from the garden.  And that's why that nice lady with the kid on her hip telling Scott Pruitt to resign was so powerful.  She wasn't flinging her dreadlocks and hemp tea at him.  She wasn't setting a trash can on fire.  Instead, she was using the powerful tool of social shame to show a political appointee the social costs of serving this administration.  It turns out that Republicans like to eat out at fancy restaurants, despite their man of the people BS, and making that experience uncomfortable in a way that does not violate their personal safety (note: explicit condemnation of any violence here) is one way to make them accountable to the people they serve.  Same as the woe is me tales of dating while republican.  If young men can't get a date in Tinder because of their political stances, then that's the free market at work.  I'll bet that's a market pressure more compelling than a nonexistent tax break at an average 20something salary.

dang1

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2662 on: July 08, 2018, 05:33:59 PM »
Trump during last nightís 2020 campaign rally in Montana. The president, ladies and gentlemen:

ďI have broken more Elton John records. He seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I donít have a musical instrument. I donít have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No, weíve broken a lot of records. Weíve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look, I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We donít need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really, we do it without, like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical Ė the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth, right? The brain. More important than the mouth is the brain. The brain is much more important.Ē

Source: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/149656/donald-trumps-mind-still-elton-john and many other reports.
The crazy thing is that his supporters love to applaud this nonsense. Literal nonsense.

there's a whole lot of stupid in murica

geekette

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2663 on: July 08, 2018, 05:44:31 PM »
There's a whole lot of stupid (and money lust) in this administration...

US Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials (NYTimes link)

In short: Ecuador wanted to introduce the measure encouraging breast feeding over formula, but "The Americans were blunt.  If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid."

Russia introduced it and the Americans rolled.

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2664 on: July 09, 2018, 12:42:35 AM »





There's a whole lot of stupid (and money lust) in this administration...

US Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials (NYTimes link)

In short: Ecuador wanted to introduce the measure encouraging breast feeding over formula, but "The Americans were blunt.  If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid."

Russia introduced it and the Americans rolled.

Also in that NY Times piece  "The Americans also sought, unsuccessfully, to thwart a W.H.O. effort aimed at helping poor countries obtain access to lifesaving medicines. "  ďItís making everyone very nervous, because if you canít agree on health multilateralism, what kind of multilateralism can you agree on?Ē Ms. Kickbusch asked.

In other news, an English woman in England has just died through contact with a Russian nerve poison previously used here on a Russian dissident and his daughter.

The traitor Trump's visit to the UK is going to be a complete clusterfuck.  Complete with Trumpbaby balloon, which has been licenced to fly over the Houses of Parliament during his visit.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:46:04 AM by former player »
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caracarn

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2665 on: July 09, 2018, 06:32:25 AM »
Your sarcasm was clear to me, but Iím not sure I can adequately convey how nasty the the political discourse is in this country right now. Itís understandable how tone could be missed in written text. Iíve been on the receiving end of worse comments that were definitely not sarcasm. Iím dreading my upcoming family reunion because several (the majority, I think) aunts/uncles/cousins think that Dear Leader is doing a fantastic job and people who donít support him blindly are not really American, and even my sweet elderly uncle thinks that the parents whose kids were stolen from them at the border had it coming to them because they chose to come here. Historically, my family has not been kind to people who donít fall in line with the group consensus (Iíve called it Borg before).
Yeah, on this family thing I am with you.  I attended a gathering at my SILs for the 4th, and I had to leave the room because of the crap flying around.  Most of the speakers were retired or close to it, but the straw that got me out of my chair was when an older aunt got on the rant of "how these are not even their kids, they were just using them to try to get in this country.  No idea why they are upset about being separated from a child that is not even theirs." 

This is the thing that frankly scares the crap of me on where we stand for the upcoming election.  I was assuming/hoping that as this trainwreck continues that even the original supporters would start to back away from the dumpster fire.  As more and more of this happens, I'm not so sure.  It's almost as if there is a collective brainwashing going on, and it is scary.  I understand that when you are in tough circumstances you may grab on to whatever individual gives you some hope.  You may even believe far fetched promises and proposals like coal coming back.  I just did not think that it would drive people to remove any common decency as a human being. 

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2666 on: July 09, 2018, 06:43:16 AM »
  I just did not think that it would drive people to remove any common decency as a human being.

History demonstrates 1) common decency is not as common as it should be, and 2) propaganda works - after all, it's just a division of the multi-billion advertising industry, and people don't spend multi-billions on advertising without evidence that it works.
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TrudgingAlong

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2667 on: July 09, 2018, 10:43:22 AM »





There's a whole lot of stupid (and money lust) in this administration...

US Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials (NYTimes link)

In short: Ecuador wanted to introduce the measure encouraging breast feeding over formula, but "The Americans were blunt.  If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid."

Russia introduced it and the Americans rolled.

Also in that NY Times piece  "The Americans also sought, unsuccessfully, to thwart a W.H.O. effort aimed at helping poor countries obtain access to lifesaving medicines. "  ďItís making everyone very nervous, because if you canít agree on health multilateralism, what kind of multilateralism can you agree on?Ē Ms. Kickbusch asked.

.

 Ms. Kickbusch doesnít seem to understand that weíve been actively supportive of not giving our own citizens healthcare, while insisting ďItís the best in the world!Ē Meanwhile, the death machine is continually being funded at historic levels. Going broke killing other people while letting the ones at home die of preventable diseases is the American way.

Good god, Iím so tired of this kind of thinking...

NoStacheOhio

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2668 on: July 09, 2018, 11:47:10 AM »
There's a whole lot of stupid (and money lust) in this administration...

US Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials (NYTimes link)

In short: Ecuador wanted to introduce the measure encouraging breast feeding over formula, but "The Americans were blunt.  If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid."

Russia introduced it and the Americans rolled.

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2669 on: July 09, 2018, 12:33:38 PM »

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.

Not just how aggressive the messaging is, but the waste associated with it.  When we had our last baby, I was shocked by the resources that go into pushing breast feeding.  There are so many people that need basic parenting information and skills, it blows my mind that so much effort is put into dealing with a relatively inconsequential decision.  Babies are fine either way.  It's just a reminder of how much of our policy and spending is driven by the concerns of the affluent rather than any type of cost/benefit consideration. 

FIRE@50

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2670 on: July 09, 2018, 12:39:46 PM »

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.

Not just how aggressive the messaging is, but the waste associated with it.  When we had our last baby, I was shocked by the resources that go into pushing breast feeding.  There are so many people that need basic parenting information and skills, it blows my mind that so much effort is put into dealing with a relatively inconsequential decision.  Babies are fine either way.  It's just a reminder of how much of our policy and spending is driven by the concerns of the affluent rather than any type of cost/benefit consideration.
Affluent spending? The breast milk is free. The formula is outrageously expensive.

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2671 on: July 09, 2018, 12:52:17 PM »

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.

Not just how aggressive the messaging is, but the waste associated with it.  When we had our last baby, I was shocked by the resources that go into pushing breast feeding.  There are so many people that need basic parenting information and skills, it blows my mind that so much effort is put into dealing with a relatively inconsequential decision.  Babies are fine either way.  It's just a reminder of how much of our policy and spending is driven by the concerns of the affluent rather than any type of cost/benefit consideration.
Affluent spending? The breast milk is free. The formula is outrageously expensive.

You don't think the non-affluent will understand how much formula costs when they have to buy it? 

Also, not having to purchase breast milk doesn't mean it's free.  There is a real cost to having to pump during work, with how stiff that cost is depending a lot on the type of work the woman does and the type of employer and co-workers she has.   

But I wasn't talking about the spending of the parents.  I was talking about the resources at the hospital (not sure who it was funded by).   If you're worried about less affluent people choosing formula because they think being expensive means it must be better, then the doctor or nurse giving a 5 second statement to the effect of, "studies indicate breast milk is probably better, but it's basically in the noise so do what makes sense for you" would probably be plenty effective.  You don't need exhibits and pamplets and multiple visits to push breast feeding and/or discourage formula feed and/or discourage pacifiers. 

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2672 on: July 09, 2018, 01:22:18 PM »

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.

Not just how aggressive the messaging is, but the waste associated with it.  When we had our last baby, I was shocked by the resources that go into pushing breast feeding.  There are so many people that need basic parenting information and skills, it blows my mind that so much effort is put into dealing with a relatively inconsequential decision.  Babies are fine either way.  It's just a reminder of how much of our policy and spending is driven by the concerns of the affluent rather than any type of cost/benefit consideration.
Affluent spending? The breast milk is free. The formula is outrageously expensive.

You don't think the non-affluent will understand how much formula costs when they have to buy it? 

Also, not having to purchase breast milk doesn't mean it's free.  There is a real cost to having to pump during work, with how stiff that cost is depending a lot on the type of work the woman does and the type of employer and co-workers she has.   

But I wasn't talking about the spending of the parents.  I was talking about the resources at the hospital (not sure who it was funded by).   If you're worried about less affluent people choosing formula because they think being expensive means it must be better, then the doctor or nurse giving a 5 second statement to the effect of, "studies indicate breast milk is probably better, but it's basically in the noise so do what makes sense for you" would probably be plenty effective.  You don't need exhibits and pamplets and multiple visits to push breast feeding and/or discourage formula feed and/or discourage pacifiers.

The statement you're saying is OK to give is wrong.  There's no 'probably' about it.  Formula is worse for babies than breast milk.  The studies are quite clear.  Don't get me wrong, formula is a useful thing in case of emergencies, but should always be a second choice.
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Johnez

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2673 on: July 09, 2018, 01:58:21 PM »
There are many problems with breastfeeding for sure. The problem with allowing companies to push their fornula products as much as breastfeeding is pushed here in the USA is that there are fewer restrictions and protections in S. American and Central American countries. In those countries it's not a matter of what is annoying, but of health and safety. Water isn't as clean, and being in poverty motivates one to "thin" the formula with more and more water, leading to malnourishment. That was one of the catalysts for restricting formua companies to begin with-health and safety. No matter how annoying the breastfeeding movement is here now (I say this as the partner of a BF mama), we have the freedom to ignore it. The choice of whether or not to water our formula down here or wondering if our water is clean enough doesn't even occur to wealthy countries.

Furthermore, I don't see why any small country should be pressured to go against what they think is best for their people. It stinks. And American conservatives used to be the ones to cry about losing sovereignty to the UN...my how things change.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 02:01:56 PM by Johnez »

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2674 on: July 09, 2018, 02:49:22 PM »

This bugs the shit out of me for a number of reasons. The obvious one, yes, but also because of the collateral damage it will do to people who are worried about women who are unable to breastfeed. The messaging has gotten insanely aggressive, and it puts a huge weight on women who may already be vulnerable to postpartum depression. Breastfeeding is great, but a lot of [American] workplaces are pretty shitty about pumping, and formula is better than infant malnourishment. Just feed your kid the best way you can.

Not just how aggressive the messaging is, but the waste associated with it.  When we had our last baby, I was shocked by the resources that go into pushing breast feeding.  There are so many people that need basic parenting information and skills, it blows my mind that so much effort is put into dealing with a relatively inconsequential decision.  Babies are fine either way.  It's just a reminder of how much of our policy and spending is driven by the concerns of the affluent rather than any type of cost/benefit consideration.
Affluent spending? The breast milk is free. The formula is outrageously expensive.

You don't think the non-affluent will understand how much formula costs when they have to buy it? 

Also, not having to purchase breast milk doesn't mean it's free.  There is a real cost to having to pump during work, with how stiff that cost is depending a lot on the type of work the woman does and the type of employer and co-workers she has.   

But I wasn't talking about the spending of the parents.  I was talking about the resources at the hospital (not sure who it was funded by).   If you're worried about less affluent people choosing formula because they think being expensive means it must be better, then the doctor or nurse giving a 5 second statement to the effect of, "studies indicate breast milk is probably better, but it's basically in the noise so do what makes sense for you" would probably be plenty effective.  You don't need exhibits and pamplets and multiple visits to push breast feeding and/or discourage formula feed and/or discourage pacifiers.

The statement you're saying is OK to give is wrong.  There's no 'probably' about it.  Formula is worse for babies than breast milk.  The studies are quite clear.  Don't get me wrong, formula is a useful thing in case of emergencies, but should always be a second choice.

Excuse me. I should have said, in the long run, it's probably better, but it's in the noise.  In the short run, it does reduce instances of some infections as babies get some boost to their immunity from antibodies in breast milk.  There is also a reduction in SIDS, which is a big deal, but I'm skeptical that's actually related to causation as much as the type of parent wanting to breastfeed tending to be correlated with avoiding the type of things that contribute to cases of SIDS that are probably environmental. 

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2675 on: July 09, 2018, 03:37:40 PM »
It's a no-brainer to promote breast feeding, and the proportion of mothers breastfeeding can be very much swayed by cultural, advertising, etc influences. Hence the reason to have an actual platform to say, breastfeeding has clear health benefits over formula, to educate people, and to support it at the time of birth.
You can look at the history of rate of breastfeeding in the US to see this and how formula manufacters were very aggressive in promoting formula over breast milk, not just in cases where it was needed, but to increase their profits and to change what was the "cultural norm" (formula is better, breast feeding is for the poor). Hence giving Moms free formula in the hospital, not being educated, and then when their lactation dries up having to go to 100% formula. When I had my kids yes we were given a ton of free stuff from the formula manufacterers.   

Nonetheless I think it's great there IS baby formula for the situations where a woman can't or does not want to breastfeed and ultimately, it is a personal decision of the mom.   


JR885 benefits of breastfeeding is not "in the noise". There have been multiple large scale studies of this.
The most well known is that of immune function, allergies, and also healthy weight gain (not too much and not too little) but there are other benefits that are being studied as well, including reduced likelihood of ear infections, type 1 diabetes, childhood leukemia, neurological development and maternal outcomes including postpartum depression.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/3/e827
 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 03:51:57 PM by partgypsy »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2676 on: July 10, 2018, 01:56:00 PM »
Go Nikki Haley!

https://www.undispatch.com/the-us-gets-a-win-at-the-un-and-no-other-country-had-to-lose/

This reform is a good example of what a productive relationship between the United States and the United Nations could look like.

Antonio Guterres and Nikki Haley arrived at the United Nations just weeks apart from each other in January 2017 to start their respective jobs. Both pledged an ambitious reform agenda to streamline the UN bureaucracy, cut costs and improve efficiencies. To be sure, some of their interests differed: Nikki Haley stressed cost cutting, while Antonio Guterres emphasized reforms that would enable the UN to do a better job of preventing conflict, rather than simply responding to it. (This, of course, is also a form of cost cutting ó but the payout is over a longer term).

They worked together to satisfy both these interestsĖand the interests of other key member states and stakeholders ó to devise a major overhaul of the UNís peace and security apparatus. The UNís fifth committee, which sets the UNís budgetary priorities, unanimously approved this reform package on July 5th as part of a larger measure that approved the UNís peacekeeping budget.

These reforms re-focus the UN on conflict prevention.

RangerOne

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2677 on: July 10, 2018, 04:20:56 PM »
From an interesting blog article on the alt-right, the ctrl-left, and the esc-centre, this insightful comment:


Quote
I think the most interesting aspect of Trumpism is the way in which it has evolved a means of countering activists of any stripe.

Hitherto, anyone attempting to defend a set of social norms against a highly motivated activist group has suffered from what I call ďthe energy gapĒ Ė they are not capable of mustering the same kind of moral fervour as those activists who are determined to bring about change, and so are doomed to lose over the long run.

Trump has shown that the counter is not to engage activists in debate, or attempt to nullify their arguments, but to keep their moral righteousness permanently at fever pitch i.e. to use the activistsí own energy against them, and let mental and psychological exhaustion gradually do its thing.


Others here have mentioned something along these lines, about people no longer getting as indignant about the stupidities, since they're so regular. It's a worthwhile article to read, since so much of the opposition to Trump is self-defeating.

Of course, as I've said many times before, it's my honest hope that the US keeps re-electing Trump and his ever-rotating cast of clowns and miscreants for as long it takes to reduce the US to a position where it can't bother the rest of us any more. But while this is great for 95% of the world, it'll be terrible for the US. So, many of you should perhaps rethink your strategy.


From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.

France almost went that direction. Italy probably will. The UK is leaving the EU. No country is a safe haven from avoiding idiot leaders like Trump on a long enough time scale.

I will say the US has a somewhat special brand of moronic extreme right wing religious views on a few issues, that other countries like the UK have figured out. I am looking at abortion and belief in evolution here.

But what can you expect from a country formed by a group of religious extremists breaking off from the UK....

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bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2679 on: July 11, 2018, 12:24:51 PM »
The GOP congresslings grow a spine, sort of:

Quote
Senators voted overwhelmingly Wednesday calling on Trump to get congressional approval before using national security as a reason for imposing tariffs on other nations,

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics/senate-trump-tariff-vote/index.html

It's a non-binding resolution? Wtf?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 12:26:38 PM by bacchi »

dividendman

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2680 on: July 11, 2018, 12:30:58 PM »
The GOP congresslings grow a spine, sort of:

Quote
Senators voted overwhelmingly Wednesday calling on Trump to get congressional approval before using national security as a reason for imposing tariffs on other nations,

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics/senate-trump-tariff-vote/index.html

It's a non-binding resolution? Wtf?

The one thing congress can get done: non-binding resolutions.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2681 on: July 11, 2018, 02:56:55 PM »
The GOP congresslings grow a spine, sort of:

Quote
Senators voted overwhelmingly Wednesday calling on Trump to get congressional approval before using national security as a reason for imposing tariffs on other nations,

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics/senate-trump-tariff-vote/index.html

It's a non-binding resolution? Wtf?

The one thing congress can get done: non-binding resolutions.

i didn't know that midterm election year CYA insurance was so cheap!
No, really. I spend a lot of time thinking about rocks.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2682 on: July 11, 2018, 06:22:54 PM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,

Quote
In a statement to The Post, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, "[Kelly] was displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese."

At first I laughed and then I realized that her response is a big "Fuck you" to the media and Democrats (and Bush, and Flake, and McCain, etc.) She can claim anything and the Trump loyalists will eat it up.

"Nooo, the looks of disgust/surprise/irritation on the faces of Kelly and Hutchinson and the aides was because they expected pancakes and Vermont maple syrup!"
"Nooo, Trump didn't write his medical evaluation letter. He IS the most healthy President ever! Just look at his svelte physique."


Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2683 on: July 11, 2018, 10:42:10 PM »
From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.
Nah. The media do their best to promote the fruit loops, but they mostly get knocked down by the voters. Most Western countries are parliamentary democracies, so the fruit loops form their own parties are always minorities, at most they join a coalition with a mainstream party; in the US they only have two parties, so the fruit loops have to join those and try to take them over.

In the same country where you can carry a firearm around for your toddler to pull out of your handbag and shoot you with, you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn.


America's problems go beyond whichever particular corrupt clown is in the White House today.
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hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2684 on: July 12, 2018, 06:01:50 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.

runbikerun

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2685 on: July 12, 2018, 06:38:58 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.

Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2686 on: July 12, 2018, 07:51:32 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.

Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy...
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2687 on: July 12, 2018, 08:40:08 AM »
From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.
Nah. The media do their best to promote the fruit loops, but they mostly get knocked down by the voters. Most Western countries are parliamentary democracies, so the fruit loops form their own parties are always minorities, at most they join a coalition with a mainstream party; in the US they only have two parties, so the fruit loops have to join those and try to take them over.

In the same country where you can carry a firearm around for your toddler to pull out of your handbag and shoot you with, you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn.


America's problems go beyond whichever particular corrupt clown is in the White House today.

That dispute is over a private agreement that he voluntarily entered into giving people (I would argue way too much) power over his exercise of his property rights.  America basically has a constitution so the same type of ass holes that want to litigate over a flag in a flower pot can't run rough shod over other people just because they get a 51% majority in Congress (and to a lesser extent, in their state legislatures).   

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2688 on: July 12, 2018, 08:46:03 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.

Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy...

In the past, Trump does a lot of stuff to deflect attention from his own failings.

When the 'pussy grabbing' tape came out, Trump accused Bill Clinton of being a sexual predator.  When Trump's adherence to his Obama birther story started to hurt his polling numbers, he said that Obama was born in the US and that Hillary started the birther story.  Trump is old and unhealthy, so he made up accusations of Hillary being the same . . . and then wrote himself a fake doctors note of health.  When information about Trump enjoying Russian prostitutes urinating on each other came out, he said that the FBI was overlooking illegal actions of Hillary Clinton.  When caught tweeting that he was obstructing justice intentionally, Trump accuses reporters of being 'fake news'.  When the Russia connection with the president was first made public, Trump lied that Obama was wiretapping him.  When Trump was facing uncomfortable questions about fucking a porn star while married, he pulled out of the Iran deal . . . then manufactured controversy by calling the leader of North Korea names.  When the special prosecutor questions started to get too uncomfortable for Trump, Trump started a trade war with the world.

So, when you remember all that . . . is it surprising that Trump (who is worried about how public his own ties to Russia are becoming) is attempting to deflect by manufacturing claims about Germany and Russia?
My spirit animal is a tardigrade.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2689 on: July 12, 2018, 09:02:42 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.

Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy...

In the past, Trump does a lot of stuff to deflect attention from his own failings.

When the 'pussy grabbing' tape came out, Trump accused Bill Clinton of being a sexual predator.  When Trump's adherence to his Obama birther story started to hurt his polling numbers, he said that Obama was born in the US and that Hillary started the birther story.  Trump is old and unhealthy, so he made up accusations of Hillary being the same . . . and then wrote himself a fake doctors note of health.  When information about Trump enjoying Russian prostitutes urinating on each other came out, he said that the FBI was overlooking illegal actions of Hillary Clinton.  When caught tweeting that he was obstructing justice intentionally, Trump accuses reporters of being 'fake news'.  When the Russia connection with the president was first made public, Trump lied that Obama was wiretapping him.  When Trump was facing uncomfortable questions about fucking a porn star while married, he pulled out of the Iran deal . . . then manufactured controversy by calling the leader of North Korea names.  When the special prosecutor questions started to get too uncomfortable for Trump, Trump started a trade war with the world.

So, when you remember all that . . . is it surprising that Trump (who is worried about how public his own ties to Russia are becoming) is attempting to deflect by manufacturing claims about Germany and Russia?

Indeed. It seems pretty transparent to me.

It's odd that so many other people seem to have trouble seeing it. Sometimes I feel like I'm inside the story "The Emperor's New Clothes."
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2690 on: July 12, 2018, 09:21:12 AM »
From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.
Nah. The media do their best to promote the fruit loops, but they mostly get knocked down by the voters. Most Western countries are parliamentary democracies, so the fruit loops form their own parties are always minorities, at most they join a coalition with a mainstream party; in the US they only have two parties, so the fruit loops have to join those and try to take them over.

In the same country where you can carry a firearm around for your toddler to pull out of your handbag and shoot you with, you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn.


America's problems go beyond whichever particular corrupt clown is in the White House today.

That dispute is over a private agreement that he voluntarily entered into giving people (I would argue way too much) power over his exercise of his property rights.  America basically has a constitution so the same type of ass holes that want to litigate over a flag in a flower pot can't run rough shod over other people just because they get a 51% majority in Congress (and to a lesser extent, in their state legislatures).   

"you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn." is a gross misrepresentation of this story. He sold his house to pay for legal costs and because he no longer wanted to live in this community, which is completely understandable.

ministashy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2691 on: July 12, 2018, 09:42:26 AM »
From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.
Nah. The media do their best to promote the fruit loops, but they mostly get knocked down by the voters. Most Western countries are parliamentary democracies, so the fruit loops form their own parties are always minorities, at most they join a coalition with a mainstream party; in the US they only have two parties, so the fruit loops have to join those and try to take them over.

In the same country where you can carry a firearm around for your toddler to pull out of your handbag and shoot you with, you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn.


America's problems go beyond whichever particular corrupt clown is in the White House today.

That dispute is over a private agreement that he voluntarily entered into giving people (I would argue way too much) power over his exercise of his property rights.  America basically has a constitution so the same type of ass holes that want to litigate over a flag in a flower pot can't run rough shod over other people just because they get a 51% majority in Congress (and to a lesser extent, in their state legislatures).   

"you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn." is a gross misrepresentation of this story. He sold his house to pay for legal costs and because he no longer wanted to live in this community, which is completely understandable.

Speaking as someone who is actually on the board of my HOA, this guy made his own problems.  He moved into an association that he knew had insanely restrictive rules, decided to break the rules, decided to waste a lot of money in court fighting said rules, then continued to break the rules again after the association changed them so that he couldn't exploit that particular loophole anymore.  And then waste even more money fighting them AGAIN.

He'd have been much better served by either a) volunteering to be on the board so that he could lobby for the rules to be changed or b) moving right away to a community that doesn't care about flags in flowerpots  ('monitors' driving around to inspect people's lawns?  WTF?  Talk about a waste of time and money.)

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2692 on: July 12, 2018, 09:56:35 AM »
From what I have seen every western country is about one bad election from being in our very position since they all have had recent brushes with right wing populists parties gaining more votes than normal.
Nah. The media do their best to promote the fruit loops, but they mostly get knocked down by the voters. Most Western countries are parliamentary democracies, so the fruit loops form their own parties are always minorities, at most they join a coalition with a mainstream party; in the US they only have two parties, so the fruit loops have to join those and try to take them over.

In the same country where you can carry a firearm around for your toddler to pull out of your handbag and shoot you with, you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn.


America's problems go beyond whichever particular corrupt clown is in the White House today.

That dispute is over a private agreement that he voluntarily entered into giving people (I would argue way too much) power over his exercise of his property rights.  America basically has a constitution so the same type of ass holes that want to litigate over a flag in a flower pot can't run rough shod over other people just because they get a 51% majority in Congress (and to a lesser extent, in their state legislatures).   

"you can lose your house because you put a little flag in your flower pot on your lawn." is a gross misrepresentation of this story. He sold his house to pay for legal costs and because he no longer wanted to live in this community, which is completely understandable.

Speaking as someone who is actually on the board of my HOA, this guy made his own problems.  He moved into an association that he knew had insanely restrictive rules, decided to break the rules, decided to waste a lot of money in court fighting said rules, then continued to break the rules again after the association changed them so that he couldn't exploit that particular loophole anymore.  And then waste even more money fighting them AGAIN.

He'd have been much better served by either a) volunteering to be on the board so that he could lobby for the rules to be changed or b) moving right away to a community that doesn't care about flags in flowerpots  ('monitors' driving around to inspect people's lawns?  WTF?  Talk about a waste of time and money.)

I have to agree on this. HOA rules are very clearly spelled out in documents you receive before you agree to purchase a property. A lot of HOAs have ridiculous rules -- like it sounds this one does -- but that is exactly why one doesn't move to them unless one is happy to follow those rules.

I get that at lot of Americans fetishize the flag to the point of near insanity... but the fact that this dude chose this as the hill he wanted to die on indicates to me that he has a personality that at the very least might be described as intractable, and at the most... pathologically stubborn.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2693 on: July 12, 2018, 10:11:30 AM »
I have to agree on this. HOA rules are very clearly spelled out in documents you receive before you agree to purchase a property. A lot of HOAs have ridiculous rules -- like it sounds this one does -- but that is exactly why one doesn't move to them unless one is happy to follow those rules.

I get that at lot of Americans fetishize the flag to the point of near insanity... but the fact that this dude chose this as the hill he wanted to die on indicates to me that he has a personality that at the very least might be described as intractable, and at the most... pathologically stubborn.

Don't discount the American culture of "the rules are for everyone except me." Take, for example, the woman who almost ran me over last week trying to make a continuous right on red, then got mad at me for being in her way. Or the newspaper delivery driver intentionally going the wrong way on a one-way street, "because I'm delivering papers."
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2694 on: July 12, 2018, 11:55:12 AM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.


Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.
Getting nearly half their energy from Russia IS having a pro Russian foreign policy.
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-russia-gas-nord-stream-2-foreign-policy/
The article is trash. They kicked out a few diplomats, who cares because the next day the signed up for more juice.

"For those who hoped that worsening EU-Russia relations would also prompt Germany to rethink, or at least delay, its support for the divisive pipeline project, Berlinís decision was disappointing. ďItís simply sad,Ē a Polish official said. ďIt took less than 24 hours for real life to negatively verify political declarations.'"

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2695 on: July 12, 2018, 12:32:39 PM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.


Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.
Getting nearly half their energy from Russia IS having a pro Russian foreign policy.
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-russia-gas-nord-stream-2-foreign-policy/
The article is trash. They kicked out a few diplomats, who cares because the next day the signed up for more juice.

"For those who hoped that worsening EU-Russia relations would also prompt Germany to rethink, or at least delay, its support for the divisive pipeline project, Berlinís decision was disappointing. ďItís simply sad,Ē a Polish official said. ďIt took less than 24 hours for real life to negatively verify political declarations.'"

The US gets 40% of its imported crude from Canada. Canada, per Trump's tariffs, is now a national security threat. Does the US support a better health care system or, worse, socialism?!? Does Trump want Americans to start pronouncing "out" as "oot"?

Let's not even talk about the crude imports from Saudi Arabia or Mexico (does the US support the cartels?). Or Venezuela! The US supports a dictatorship.


NoStacheOhio

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2696 on: July 12, 2018, 01:10:14 PM »
The US gets 40% of its imported crude from Canada. Canada, per Trump's tariffs, is now a national security threat. Does the US support a better health care system or, worse, socialism?!? Does Trump want Americans to start pronouncing "out" as "oot"?

Let's not even talk about the crude imports from Saudi Arabia or Mexico (does the US support the cartels?). Or Venezuela! The US supports a dictatorship.

It does according to this documentary I saw called Sicario ;-)
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2697 on: July 12, 2018, 01:35:17 PM »
Re: John Kelly's irritated look at Trump claiming that Germany is controlled by Russia,


https://www.wingas.com/en/raw-material-natural-gas/where-does-europe-get-its-natural-gas.html
Well, they do get 40% of their natural gas from Russia, so if there were anyone who would have an interest in keeping Russia happy it would be the Germans.


Except that's not borne out even slightly by reality. German foreign policy isn't pro-Russian in any meaningful way.
Getting nearly half their energy from Russia IS having a pro Russian foreign policy.
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-russia-gas-nord-stream-2-foreign-policy/
The article is trash. They kicked out a few diplomats, who cares because the next day the signed up for more juice.

"For those who hoped that worsening EU-Russia relations would also prompt Germany to rethink, or at least delay, its support for the divisive pipeline project, Berlinís decision was disappointing. ďItís simply sad,Ē a Polish official said. ďIt took less than 24 hours for real life to negatively verify political declarations.'"

I looked at that Politico article you linked: I couldn't see anything in it that said that Germany is "getting nearly half their energy from Russia".


Here's an alternative google source for info -
www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

This says that gross power production in Germany in 2017 was 654.8 terrawatt hours (TWh), with natural gas being 86.5 TWh.  That's natural gas at 13.2% of the total.  Even if Germany got all its natural gas from Russia it would be 13%, not nearly 50%. 

This BBC factcheck says that between 50% and 75% of Germany's natural gas imports come from Russia -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44794688

So that's between 6.6% and 10% of Germany's total energy use comes from Russian gas.


Nowhere near Trump's figures.  Or yours.


Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

RetiredAt63

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2698 on: July 12, 2018, 01:54:11 PM »

The US gets 40% of its imported crude from Canada. Canada, per Trump's tariffs, is now a national security threat. Does the US support a better health care system or, worse, socialism?!? Does Trump want Americans to start pronouncing "out" as "oot"?

Well, we can easily infiltrate you by saying out properly, as out not oot, and about as about, not aboot.  Does that make us more of a security threat?    ;-)

Socialism?   Huh?  Decent health care = socialism?
The measure of civilization is how people treat one another.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/meetups-and-social-events/ontario's-own-camp-mustache-2017/ - MEET US THERE!

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2699 on: July 12, 2018, 02:25:27 PM »

The US gets 40% of its imported crude from Canada. Canada, per Trump's tariffs, is now a national security threat. Does the US support a better health care system or, worse, socialism?!? Does Trump want Americans to start pronouncing "out" as "oot"?

Well, we can easily infiltrate you by saying out properly, as out not oot, and about as about, not aboot.  Does that make us more of a security threat?    ;-)

Socialism?   Huh?  Decent health care = socialism?

ooh Canadians might infiltrate us and give us better healthcare! I'm sceered. Then again they did give us Pamela Anderson and  Matthew Perry so maybe I have a right to be concerned.