Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 579599 times)

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6450 on: March 22, 2019, 04:44:53 PM »
I guess Mueller can take a well earned weekend off, now. I expect the coming month is going to be pretty spicy.

I think it will be pretty shocking if the Mueller Report causes anything in particular to happen.  Trump has spent two years not only discrediting the entire investigation, but also appointing people to positions of power who can minimize, alter, conceal, or distort Mueller's findings.  And he has not exactly appointed people who are known for being honest and fair.  Like always, he surrounds himself with toadies.  If those toadies are forced to prosecute, it will only be because the evidence is so overwhelming they have no other choice.

But the Mueller report is only about Russian collusion, right?  Not obstruction of justice, not tax fraud, not emoluments, not defrauding banks, not campaign finance violations, not sexual assaults.  Trump has committed a myriad of impeachable crimes, but "collusion" is unlikely to be one of them.  I mean he definitely colluded with Russia, by every possible definition, I just don't think congressional republicans care.  I think they're much more likely to impeach him for tax fraud than they are for colluding with Russia, even if he is equally guilty of both.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6451 on: March 22, 2019, 05:17:41 PM »
I guess Mueller can take a well earned weekend off, now. I expect the coming month is going to be pretty spicy.

I think it will be pretty shocking if the Mueller Report causes anything in particular to happen.  Trump has spent two years not only discrediting the entire investigation, but also appointing people to positions of power who can minimize, alter, conceal, or distort Mueller's findings.  And he has not exactly appointed people who are known for being honest and fair.  Like always, he surrounds himself with toadies.  If those toadies are forced to prosecute, it will only be because the evidence is so overwhelming they have no other choice.


I think the flip-side of this argument is that the people who Trump has installed are so ham-handed and incompetent that they often fail.  How many times has Giuliani gone out on the talk-show circuit just to botch the message and torpedo a potential legal defense?  By at least one count the Trump administration has lost in court at least 63 times, mostly because the people crafting his impulses into EOs didnt bother with even perfunctory legal due diligence.  Despite his claims to have 'only the best people' most of the truly competent ones have long fled for the hills, only to be replaced by sycophants that don't have the background or backbone to actually notch victories. He's got Mulvaney as the figurehead Chief of Staff after Kelly quit, even though he's also Director of Management and Budget.  He's got Kushner and Ivanka as his 'senior advisors' (and the former responsible for everything regarding hte Middle East plus VA and US Innovation), though neither have any governmental experience.
Everywhere you look DJT's got the wrong people or simply no people there to defend his actions.  Not surprising since getting the job literally involved being instructed to praise him while cameras were rolling.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6452 on: March 22, 2019, 06:51:28 PM »
They won’t release it to the public.

And then it will just die.

vern

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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6454 on: March 22, 2019, 09:05:23 PM »
Talk about March Madness!  Who will survive to the next round?  Nobody knows, not even the President :)

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6455 on: March 23, 2019, 01:07:15 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-report-sent-to-attorney-general-signaling-his-russia-investigation-has-ended/2019/03/22/b061d8fa-323e-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.50ae303712b8

"A senior Justice Department official said the special counsel has not recommended any further indictments"

Also reported by CNN the NYT.

Da fuk?? That's all? wtfbbq??

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6456 on: March 23, 2019, 03:39:22 AM »
I would like to know how it is possible that, we the people, have paid for this investigation with our taxes and can be denied seeing this report. I do understand there could be matters of national security and other sensitive things, but the bulk of this report should be issued so we can see what WE paid for. So WE can see what was found.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6457 on: March 23, 2019, 03:51:06 AM »
I guess Mueller can take a well earned weekend off, now. I expect the coming month is going to be pretty spicy.

I think it will be pretty shocking if the Mueller Report causes anything in particular to happen.  Trump has spent two years not only discrediting the entire investigation, but also appointing people to positions of power who can minimize, alter, conceal, or distort Mueller's findings.  And he has not exactly appointed people who are known for being honest and fair.  Like always, he surrounds himself with toadies.  If those toadies are forced to prosecute, it will only be because the evidence is so overwhelming they have no other choice.

But the Mueller report is only about Russian collusion, right?  Not obstruction of justice, not tax fraud, not emoluments, not defrauding banks, not campaign finance violations, not sexual assaults.  Trump has committed a myriad of impeachable crimes, but "collusion" is unlikely to be one of them.  I mean he definitely colluded with Russia, by every possible definition, I just don't think congressional republicans care.  I think they're much more likely to impeach him for tax fraud than they are for colluding with Russia, even if he is equally guilty of both.

This. I think that it's unlikely there was ever collusion with Russia even though the Russians were trying to influence the election and wanted Trump to win (or maybe Clinton to lose?).

Not sure if anyone has listened to long form interviews with Renee DiResta, but I think she does a good job of describing how the Russian Troll Farms were operating.

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/renee-diresta
https://samharris.org/podcasts/145-information-war/
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 03:53:00 AM by NorthernBlitz »

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6458 on: March 23, 2019, 04:59:10 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2BVI9OhC4

If you're going to spike the football in victory, do it with some class good sir.

https://youtu.be/Ji-cT58rgNc

I've spent a while attempting to find a tweet from "emptywheel" that essentially said "you can't say "wait for the Mueller report" and then disavow it's findings if you disagree.  That's not how this works."

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6459 on: March 23, 2019, 05:11:48 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

StarBright

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6460 on: March 23, 2019, 06:18:22 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-report-sent-to-attorney-general-signaling-his-russia-investigation-has-ended/2019/03/22/b061d8fa-323e-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.50ae303712b8

"A senior Justice Department official said the special counsel has not recommended any further indictments"

Also reported by CNN the NYT.

Da fuk?? That's all? wtfbbq??

I'm not sure what I think will happen going forward but in regards to  "not any further indictments" don't forget that there are still a ton of sealed indictments in the DC circuit court. Many people believe that those pertain to the Mueller investigation.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/02/21/are-sealed-indictments-muellers-backstop/


gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6461 on: March 23, 2019, 08:30:57 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I come to this forum to hone my arguments for when my friends debate. I have local problems that need practical solutions and a unified front. Right now that is impossible because this Russiagate nonsense has people paranoid and living in fear. And it has brought our system nothing but gridlock.

Unless new evidence crops up, agree with the official investigation and try to mend fences. Can we agree with that?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6462 on: March 23, 2019, 10:11:29 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I'm not sure I follow. Go after what?

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6463 on: March 23, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I come to this forum to hone my arguments for when my friends debate. I have local problems that need practical solutions and a unified front. Right now that is impossible because this Russiagate nonsense has people paranoid and living in fear. And it has brought our system nothing but gridlock.

Unless new evidence crops up, agree with the official investigation and try to mend fences. Can we agree with that?

Excuse me what?

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6464 on: March 23, 2019, 10:28:53 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I come to this forum to hone my arguments for when my friends debate. I have local problems that need practical solutions and a unified front. Right now that is impossible because this Russiagate nonsense has people paranoid and living in fear. And it has brought our system nothing but gridlock.

Unless new evidence crops up, agree with the official investigation and try to mend fences. Can we agree with that?

Excuse me what?

There have been seven guilty pleas/convictions and another 27 people indicted.  We need to end this nonsense so that the people who collaborated with Russia can stop living in fear!

I say we mend our fences once the guilty parties are locked safely behind them.

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6465 on: March 23, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I'm not sure I follow. Go after what?

You implied other crimes besides the collusion. If there is enough evidence then go ahead with the investigation into those other crimes. Right now it seems the collusion angle is dead.

Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I come to this forum to hone my arguments for when my friends debate. I have local problems that need practical solutions and a unified front. Right now that is impossible because this Russiagate nonsense has people paranoid and living in fear. And it has brought our system nothing but gridlock.

Unless new evidence crops up, agree with the official investigation and try to mend fences. Can we agree with that?

Excuse me what?

I have two people that are so concerned about Trump it was causing their relatives to worry about their mental state. Help tone down the rhetoric before someone snaps under the strain. Help walk people back from the edge.

Regardless of what happens with Mueller's final report this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of politics.

Yes and by all means go after that.

I come to this forum to hone my arguments for when my friends debate. I have local problems that need practical solutions and a unified front. Right now that is impossible because this Russiagate nonsense has people paranoid and living in fear. And it has brought our system nothing but gridlock.

Unless new evidence crops up, agree with the official investigation and try to mend fences. Can we agree with that?

Excuse me what?

There have been seven guilty pleas/convictions and another 27 people indicted.  We need to end this nonsense so that the people who collaborated with Russia can stop living in fear!

I say we mend our fences once the guilty parties are locked safely behind them.

If a fence has gaps in it, what good is locking the gate?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6466 on: March 23, 2019, 12:21:51 PM »

You implied other crimes besides the collusion. If there is enough evidence then go ahead with the investigation into those other crimes. Right now it seems the collusion angle is dead.


As I've pointed out repeatedly, 'collusion' is not - from a legal perspective - an actual crime. 
What we have is an investigation that has resulted in convictions or guilty pleas from seven individuals, including the personal lawyer to the President, personal advisor to the President, former Trump campaign chairman, a 3-star General and former National Security Advisor and two former Trump campaign advisors.  Several people are already in jail for these offenses, and others have trials pending.

My point that this investigation has already revealed an unprecedented level of criminal activity within the upper echelons of a political campaign stands.

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6467 on: March 23, 2019, 12:43:59 PM »

You implied other crimes besides the collusion. If there is enough evidence then go ahead with the investigation into those other crimes. Right now it seems the collusion angle is dead.

As nereo said, "collusion" is not a crime but crimes with other names which did involve collusion have already been proven.

So when you say the collusion angle is dead, what are you referring to? Are you suggesting this based on the fact that Mueller has submitted his report or was the collusion angle dead before that, in your mind?

EnjoyIt

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6468 on: March 23, 2019, 02:14:19 PM »

You implied other crimes besides the collusion. If there is enough evidence then go ahead with the investigation into those other crimes. Right now it seems the collusion angle is dead.

As nereo said, "collusion" is not a crime but crimes with other names which did involve collusion have already been proven.

So when you say the collusion angle is dead, what are you referring to? Are you suggesting this based on the fact that Mueller has submitted his report or was the collusion angle dead before that, in your mind?

Arguably, the country is better today with Trump's presidency compared to before he took office.  Those who voted for him don't care about many of his indiscretions as long as the country is going in the right direction in their eyes.  I am one of those people who think the country is better under his presidency. There are things about Donald Trump I very much dislike and somethings that he does I whole heartedly disagree with.  Considering everything, I am happy with the direction he has taken us and as it currently stands, I will be voting for Trump in 2020.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6469 on: March 23, 2019, 02:45:40 PM »
Arguably, the country is better today with Trump's presidency compared to before he took office.

Do you attribute any of that to Trump?  I agree that the economy has continued to grow, but that does not mean the country is better.  In particular, whenever I look at specific things that I can actually attribute to Trump, all I see is things getting worse.

I think our trade war with China is worse.  Wealth inequality and corporate profiteering are worse.  Our peace-keeping alliances with our allies are worse, and our simmering conflicts with our adversaries are worse.  Environmental regulations and cleanup efforts are worse.  Our levels of government corruption are worse.  Our collective freedoms are worse.  Our moral standing in the world is worse.  Our tax structure is worse.  Our justice system is worse, and our opioid epidemic is worse.  Our military is less ready, or intelligence agencies are less functional, and our state department is gutted.  Most importantly, to my mind, is that our collective sense of national unity has been absolutely destroyed.  I can attribute all of these things directly to Donald Trump, and none of them made the country better. 

By contrast, there have been some good things in America in the past two years, like a productive economy riding the Obama-era coattails, and a justice reform bill championed by democrats that got Trump's buy-in.  Those are not Trump's doing.  He's a bad leader, who has materially harmed America.  He's a lifelong criminal who took power with the help of foreign adversaries, and he has besmirched and sullied the whitehouse every day with his presence in it.  He's a national embarrassment and will be remembered as such, and I will be shocked if he wins again in 2020 because he has actively undermined our country's goals and ideals at every opportunity.  America stands for many things, and Donald Trump is none of them.

Which is not to say you shouldn't vote for him again, if you like all of the horrible things he's done.  That's the fatal flaw in democracy, after all.  People get to choose their own self-destruction. 

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6470 on: March 23, 2019, 03:10:34 PM »
Arguably, the country is better today with Trump's presidency compared to before he took office.

Do you attribute any of that to Trump? 

This is the reason, while so many on the left are disappointed with Obama, I still put him on the pedestal in my heart. The growth we are currently experiencing is very much the positive part of his legacy.

When the collusion investigation began, there was no question in my mind that trump (or his team) actively colluded with the Russians. But it appears the story turned out quite different. I am almost afraid now for the report to be made public.

Why? Because a report that does not put the blame squarely on trump and his team would severely undermine MSM's credibility (whatever is left anyway). After Covington and Smollett, if the Russiangate narrative also collapses in similarly spectacular fashion, oh lawdy he comin again in 2020, possibly by a landslide.

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6471 on: March 23, 2019, 03:10:53 PM »

You implied other crimes besides the collusion. If there is enough evidence then go ahead with the investigation into those other crimes. Right now it seems the collusion angle is dead.

As nereo said, "collusion" is not a crime but crimes with other names which did involve collusion have already been proven.

So when you say the collusion angle is dead, what are you referring to? Are you suggesting this based on the fact that Mueller has submitted his report or was the collusion angle dead before that, in your mind?

Mueller submitted his report and there are no sealed indictments waiting to be opened from the special prosecutors office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/22/special-counsel-mueller-has-no-sealed-indictments-as-russia-probe-ends-nbc-news.html

What more are you expecting? Tax evasion? Money Laundering? Obstruction of Justice? Right now it seems like new charges won't be steming from action taken during the 2016 election.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6472 on: March 23, 2019, 03:19:44 PM »
When the collusion investigation began, there was no question in my mind that trump (or his team) actively colluded with the Russians. But it appears the story turned out quite different. I am almost afraid now for the report to be made public.

I agree that it's looking different, but not like he's innocent.  More like incompetent.

The problem with collusion (or conspiracy) is that it requires criminal intent.  Just actively colluding with the Russians, because you honestly believe that it's totally fine to collude with the Russians, is apparently not itself a crime.  For example, we already know that Trump was actively seeking a real estate deal in Moscow during the campaign, and that Putin used this deal as leverage over Trump, and that Trump tried to bribe Putin with the penthouse, and that everyone involved lied through their teeth about the whole thing.  Trump can just claim (and has) he wasn't colluding with Russia, he was just pursuing ongoing business relationships with Russia, like he was previously.  Any quid pro quo discussions about the election that involved that real estate deal were purely coincidental, from Trump's point of view, and so he had no criminal intent.  It wouldn't matter if Putin were to release his own internal documents spelling out the Russian effort to control Trump as an unwitting operative of the Russian state, detailing the intended use of millions of dollars of Russian government money being funneled directly to Donald Trump in exchange for an easing of sanctions, or the strategic release of hacked documents, or the deliberate concealment of a peepee tape.  Just because Russia was colluding with Trump doesn't necessarily mean Trump was colluding with Russia.  He could just be a patsy.

And that's been the story in a lot of Russian espionage cases.  Some of the most high profile US traitors have been kind of stupid people who didn't necessarily realize that what they were doing was so harmful to America.  They honestly believed they had friends in Russia, who were just trying to help them out with cash payments in exchange for information.

EnjoyIt

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6473 on: March 23, 2019, 03:27:09 PM »
Arguably, the country is better today with Trump's presidency compared to before he took office.

Do you attribute any of that to Trump?  I agree that the economy has continued to grow, but that does not mean the country is better.  In particular, whenever I look at specific things that I can actually attribute to Trump, all I see is things getting worse.

I think our trade war with China is worse.  Wealth inequality and corporate profiteering are worse.  Our peace-keeping alliances with our allies are worse, and our simmering conflicts with our adversaries are worse.  Environmental regulations and cleanup efforts are worse.  Our levels of government corruption are worse.  Our collective freedoms are worse.  Our moral standing in the world is worse.  Our tax structure is worse.  Our justice system is worse, and our opioid epidemic is worse.  Our military is less ready, or intelligence agencies are less functional, and our state department is gutted.  Most importantly, to my mind, is that our collective sense of national unity has been absolutely destroyed.  I can attribute all of these things directly to Donald Trump, and none of them made the country better. 

By contrast, there have been some good things in America in the past two years, like a productive economy riding the Obama-era coattails, and a justice reform bill championed by democrats that got Trump's buy-in.  Those are not Trump's doing.  He's a bad leader, who has materially harmed America.  He's a lifelong criminal who took power with the help of foreign adversaries, and he has besmirched and sullied the whitehouse every day with his presence in it.  He's a national embarrassment and will be remembered as such, and I will be shocked if he wins again in 2020 because he has actively undermined our country's goals and ideals at every opportunity.  America stands for many things, and Donald Trump is none of them.

Which is not to say you shouldn't vote for him again, if you like all of the horrible things he's done.  That's the fatal flaw in democracy, after all.  People get to choose their own self-destruction.

@sol, Thanks for asking.

Here is someone else opinion piece about the top things he thinks trump has done:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-10-best-things-trump-has-done-in-2018/2018/12/31/a2de64b6-0d1b-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html?utm_term=.59a5e00a5f9a.

I do think we will be better off in the long run regarding the trade war with China.  Our economy is better. I do not see an income inequality problem in the US. Government corruption is unchanged. I have no idea what you mean by collective freedoms being worse. I am trilled with the current tax cuts we received including the tremendous corporate tax cuts which I think needed to happen a long time ago. I am also thrilled with his deregulation policies that are boosting the economy as well. I see no difference in our justice system.  Our opioid epidemic is worse but I believe that is due to CMS creating pain as a 5th vital sign and reimbursing physicians by patient satisfaction where a question specifically asked if pain was properly controlled.  But yes, the crisis is worse today than a decade ago.  I agree he is a very divisive president mostly because people who hate him only see the bad and people who like him only see the good. 

Our productive economy started with Obama and Trump has been improving on it since taking office.  He has been doing great with N. Korea, He pulled reimposed sanctions on Iran, He is increasing transparency in hospital billing practices.  He has done great with ISIS in Syria. He is choosing domestic wellbeing over foreign.  Trump pulled us out of TPP. He withdraw us from the Paris agreement. Trump is forcing other UN participants to pay their fair share and decrease the burden on American tax payers. Unemployment is at a ridiculous low.  More of us have been able to FIRE earlier due to economic success with what appears nothing stopping in the near future.

Sure he is a scummy human being, but the country is better today than it has been 2 years ago and I think it will continue to get better under his unorthodox leadership.  I think he will go down as one of the most controversial and influential presidents of our time.  You know as well as I do that if the economy continues strong into the 2020 election he will be president for 4 more years.  I can't imagine how much more good he will accomplish in the next 6 years.

Trump 2020 

dang1

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6474 on: March 23, 2019, 03:50:31 PM »
Trump - worst president ever

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6475 on: March 23, 2019, 06:43:09 PM »

Any quid pro quo discussions about the election that involved that real estate deal were purely coincidental, from Trump's point of view, and so he had no criminal intent.  .... He could just be a patsy.

And that's been the story in a lot of Russian espionage cases.  Some of the most high profile US traitors have been kind of stupid people who didn't necessarily realize that what they were doing was so harmful to America.  They honestly believed they had friends in Russia, who were just trying to help them out with cash payments in exchange for information.

That could very well be the case with trump, that he's "just a patsy". Yet we were led to believe (ok I say we but I really meant the feeble minded like myself) by the MSM circa 2016-2017 that he was a traitor through and through, not merely incompetent. Maybe we would know more once the AG makes an announcement.

Having just watched capt. marvel, a quote from the movie struck me, I can see more people feeling the same way towards MSM as we get closer to 2020:

I used to believe your lies, but the [the Right] are just fighting for a home. You're talking about [silencing] them because they wont submit to your rule. And neither will I.

oh lawd he comin
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 07:16:33 PM by anisotropy »

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6476 on: March 23, 2019, 06:55:36 PM »

Any quid pro quo discussions about the election that involved that real estate deal were purely coincidental, from Trump's point of view, and so he had no criminal intent.  .... He could just be a patsy.

And that's been the story in a lot of Russian espionage cases.  Some of the most high profile US traitors have been kind of stupid people who didn't necessarily realize that what they were doing was so harmful to America.  They honestly believed they had friends in Russia, who were just trying to help them out with cash payments in exchange for information.

That could very well be the case with trump, that he's "just a patsy". Yet we were led to believe (ok I say we but I really meant the feeble minded like myself) by the MSM circa 2016-2017 that he was a traitor through and through, not merely incompetent. Maybe we would know more once the AG makes an announcement.

Having just watched capt. marvel, a quote from the movie struck me, I can see more people feeling the same way towards MSM as we get closer to 2020:

I used to believe your lies, but the
are just fighting for a home. You're talking about [silencing] them because they wont submit to your rule. And neither will I.[/i]

oh lawd he comin
Eh. Trump supporters listen to conservative MSM already so there's no difference there. Democrats aren't likely to flip simply because there was no impeachable offense -- a lot of his circle are sentenced or indicted. That leaves independents, who may well change their mind if Trump can stop insulting dead POWs or siding with neo-Nazis. And if the economy holds.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6477 on: March 23, 2019, 07:21:50 PM »
Democrats aren't likely to flip simply because there was no impeachable offense -- a lot of his circle are sentenced or indicted. That leaves independents, who may well change their mind if Trump can stop insulting dead POWs or siding with neo-Nazis. And if the economy holds.

Oh there are plenty of impeachable offenses.  Remember that Clinton was impeached for having an affair, and Trump has had at least five that we know of.  The Mueller investigation was never about impeachment, because impeachment is a purely political process.  If the country elects Senators who want to impeach, the guy gets impeached.  No other way, though, regardless of crimes.

And if you mean that there were no indictable offenses, that's also not the point.  Mueller started his investigation saying that a sitting President could not be indicted.  There was never any chance of that.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6478 on: March 23, 2019, 10:45:01 PM »
Democrats aren't likely to flip simply because there was no impeachable offense -- a lot of his circle are sentenced or indicted. That leaves independents, who may well change their mind if Trump can stop insulting dead POWs or siding with neo-Nazis. And if the economy holds.

Oh there are plenty of impeachable offenses.  Remember that Clinton was impeached for having an affair, and Trump has had at least five that we know of.  The Mueller investigation was never about impeachment, because impeachment is a purely political process.  If the country elects Senators who want to impeach, the guy gets impeached.  No other way, though, regardless of crimes.

And if you mean that there were no indictable offenses, that's also not the point.  Mueller started his investigation saying that a sitting President could not be indicted.  There was never any chance of that.

True but perception matters. Republicans and Trump's circle will spin it so that the Mueller report vindicated Trump, even though Mueller could list 20 pages of criminal acts. As long as the report isn't released, and Barr's summary is all flowers and sunshine, Trump "wins."

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6479 on: March 24, 2019, 06:31:03 AM »
True but perception matters. Republicans and Trump's circle will spin it so that the Mueller report vindicated Trump, even though Mueller could list 20 pages of criminal acts. As long as the report isn't released, and Barr's summary is all flowers and sunshine, Trump "wins."

He only 'wins' in the eyes of those who saw immediate impeachment as the only way to "lose".  Some of the closest people to DJT are going to jail, Mueller's indictments show the Russians played the GOP like a cheap fiddle and the legal peril won't stop with this report as he's now under investigation by a number of state and district courts.

It's like the rugby team getting dragged in front of the dean for misconduct and the captain declaring 'vindication' because only a few players were expelled and he personally can keep on going.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6480 on: March 24, 2019, 07:11:03 AM »
From the wapo article, here are the top 10 things that Trump has accomplished.

10. He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

9. He delivered for the “forgotten Americans.”

8. He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

7. He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

6. His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit

5. In the six months after the Singapore summit with North Korea, he has made no concessions to Pyongyang.

4. He struck Syria again and eliminated the last vestiges of the Islamic State’s physical caliphate.

3. He’s continued his tough line with Moscow.

2. He pulled out of Obama’s disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

1. He stood by Brett M. Kavanaugh and even in the worst moments never wavered.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6481 on: March 24, 2019, 07:25:03 AM »
From the wapo article, here are the top 10 things that Trump has accomplished.

10. He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

9. He delivered for the “forgotten Americans.”

8. He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

7. He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

6. His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit

5. In the six months after the Singapore summit with North Korea, he has made no concessions to Pyongyang.

4. He struck Syria again and eliminated the last vestiges of the Islamic State’s physical caliphate.

3. He’s continued his tough line with Moscow.

2. He pulled out of Obama’s disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

1. He stood by Brett M. Kavanaugh and even in the worst moments never wavered.
Is this satire?

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6482 on: March 24, 2019, 07:52:37 AM »
From the wapo article, here are the top 10 things that Trump has accomplished.

10. He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

9. He delivered for the “forgotten Americans.”

8. He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

7. He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

6. His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit

5. In the six months after the Singapore summit with North Korea, he has made no concessions to Pyongyang.

4. He struck Syria again and eliminated the last vestiges of the Islamic State’s physical caliphate.

3. He’s continued his tough line with Moscow.

2. He pulled out of Obama’s disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

1. He stood by Brett M. Kavanaugh and even in the worst moments never wavered.

Are you kidding me?

"domestic energy" The dude does not believe in anthropomorphic climate change. He is going in exactly the wrong direction for long term energy sustainability for both the US and the world as a whole. He gets a FAIL in this area.

"He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation." Yes he is so well known for his bipartisan negotiation skills. He was given a gift of republican led house and senate and even that he squandered because he has no coherent domestic or foreign policy and cannot string two sentences together lol lol


"He's continue his tough line with Moscow". What the?

And the Kavanaugh thing, why didn't this list also include his steadfast support of Roy Moore? Many of the male voters will forget this, but female voters will not. We will remember and we can vote. And many decent men I believe do not condone people like Kavanaugh and Moore who preyed on, harrassed and assaulted minor females, treating a female who could have been their future wife, or their sister, or their daughter in that way, not only NOT be censured but applauded and promoted to the highest position in their field.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 08:04:27 AM by partgypsy »

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6483 on: March 24, 2019, 08:55:27 AM »
True but perception matters. Republicans and Trump's circle will spin it so that the Mueller report vindicated Trump, even though Mueller could list 20 pages of criminal acts. As long as the report isn't released, and Barr's summary is all flowers and sunshine, Trump "wins."

He only 'wins' in the eyes of those who saw immediate impeachment as the only way to "lose".  Some of the closest people to DJT are going to jail, Mueller's indictments show the Russians played the GOP like a cheap fiddle and the legal peril won't stop with this report as he's now under investigation by a number of state and district courts.

It's like the rugby team getting dragged in front of the dean for misconduct and the captain declaring 'vindication' because only a few players were expelled and he personally can keep on going.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/03/robert-mueller-probe-ends-without-indictments-trump-jr-kushner-ivanka.html

Paul Manafort
n Mueller’s most successful prosecution, the former Trump campaign chairman was sentenced to seven-and-a-half years in prison earlier this month for charges related to work he did outside of the Trump campaign. There was an open question about whether he might face additional conspiracy charges in any collusion case, and the answer appears to be that he will not.

The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this. The optics right now seems like people are falling back and finding rationalizations for keeping Russiagate alive.

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6484 on: March 24, 2019, 09:21:23 AM »
The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this. The optics right now seems like people are falling back and finding rationalizations for keeping Russiagate alive.

Can anyone comment on how accurate this statement is? I hear it a lot but I rarely saw this idea expressed in the media. To be fair, I consume very little televised media so maybe they did act like it would be the silver bullet, I just haven't seen it.

I do occasionally watch comedy shows like Stephen Colbert and even he frequently reminded his audience that there's a lot more going on than the Mueller report. I assume if the funny man is saying it then the actual news must be too, at least I would hope.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6485 on: March 24, 2019, 09:54:43 AM »
The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this.

Why do you think they faceplanted?  The Mueller investigation has been a smashing success.  It exposed an intricate web of illegal connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, revealed most of Trump's senior staff to be traitorous liars or incompetent stooges or both, and has resulted in 37 indictments so far.  A whole bunch of Trump's top people are going to jail, and a bunch more were forced to resign, because of what the investigation has revealed.  It proved that Russia waged a coordinated campaign to help Trump win the election, including hacking voting machines, disseminating false propaganda, and organizing false flag community events designed to divide the country.  It showed how his transition team gave special favors to Russian oligarchs at the inauguration in exchange for bribes.  It documented how Trump's people, including Kushner and Don Jr. and Manafort, all actively and materially supported these Russian efforts.  It has not proven that Trump told them to do so, only that they understood that he wanted them to.  And it has explained how Trump sought to undermine the investigation of his campaign by obstructing justice, using his political power to interfere with law enforcement conducting their jobs in ways that he thought might be politically inconvenient for him.

So from my perspective, the Mueller investigation has absolutely been a silver bullet.  Since the republicans shut down all of the congressional investigations for partisan reasons, Mueller is the only reason we even know about most of this stuff, much less have successful prosecutions.

But if you thought that any of that was going to result in impeachment or indictment of Trump himself, you were misled.  It wouldn't matter if Trump tweeted out "I colluded with Russia" because he won't be impeached as long as republicans control the Senate, regardless of his crimes.  He won't be indicted because the FBI and special counsel agreed at the outset that he couldn't be, no matter what they found.  The only purpose of the of the Mueller investigation was to target people other than Trump, and in that mission it has been wildly successful.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6486 on: March 24, 2019, 10:21:01 AM »
The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this.

Why do you think they faceplanted?  The Mueller investigation has been a smashing success.  It exposed an intricate web of illegal connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, revealed most of Trump's senior staff to be traitorous liars or incompetent stooges or both, and has resulted in 37 indictments so far.  A whole bunch of Trump's top people are going to jail, and a bunch more were forced to resign, because of what the investigation has revealed.  It proved that Russia waged a coordinated campaign to help Trump win the election, including hacking voting machines, disseminating false propaganda, and organizing false flag community events designed to divide the country.  It showed how his transition team gave special favors to Russian oligarchs at the inauguration in exchange for bribes.  It documented how Trump's people, including Kushner and Don Jr. and Manafort, all actively and materially supported these Russian efforts.  It has not proven that Trump told them to do so, only that they understood that he wanted them to.  And it has explained how Trump sought to undermine the investigation of his campaign by obstructing justice, using his political power to interfere with law enforcement conducting their jobs in ways that he thought might be politically inconvenient for him.

So from my perspective, the Mueller investigation has absolutely been a silver bullet.  Since the republicans shut down all of the congressional investigations for partisan reasons, Mueller is the only reason we even know about most of this stuff, much less have successful prosecutions.

But if you thought that any of that was going to result in impeachment or indictment of Trump himself, you were misled.  It wouldn't matter if Trump tweeted out "I colluded with Russia" because he won't be impeached as long as republicans control the Senate, regardless of his crimes.  He won't be indicted because the FBI and special counsel agreed at the outset that he couldn't be, no matter what they found.  The only purpose of the of the Mueller investigation was to target people other than Trump, and in that mission it has been wildly successful.

Because Trump will go unscathed through all this, it will be used as a talking point to show how the liberal media is against Trump and will likely garner him extra votes in the 2020 election.  It is likely all the hype will actually help Trump in the long run despite all the malfeasance uncovered around him.  Trump is an expert at manipulating the media and will use this to his advantage.

-Trump 2020
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 11:21:04 AM by EnjoyIt »

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6487 on: March 24, 2019, 11:12:58 AM »
The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this.

Why do you think they faceplanted?  The Mueller investigation has been a smashing success.  It exposed an intricate web of illegal connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, revealed most of Trump's senior staff to be traitorous liars or incompetent stooges or both, and has resulted in 37 indictments so far.  A whole bunch of Trump's top people are going to jail, and a bunch more were forced to resign, because of what the investigation has revealed.  It proved that Russia waged a coordinated campaign to help Trump win the election, including hacking voting machines, disseminating false propaganda, and organizing false flag community events designed to divide the country.  It showed how his transition team gave special favors to Russian oligarchs at the inauguration in exchange for bribes.  It documented how Trump's people, including Kushner and Don Jr. and Manafort, all actively and materially supported these Russian efforts.  It has not proven that Trump told them to do so, only that they understood that he wanted them to.  And it has explained how Trump sought to undermine the investigation of his campaign by obstructing justice, using his political power to interfere with law enforcement conducting their jobs in ways that he thought might be politically inconvenient for him.

So from my perspective, the Mueller investigation has absolutely been a silver bullet.  Since the republicans shut down all of the congressional investigations for partisan reasons, Mueller is the only reason we even know about most of this stuff, much less have successful prosecutions.

But if you thought that any of that was going to result in impeachment or indictment of Trump himself, you were misled.  It wouldn't matter if Trump tweeted out "I colluded with Russia" because he won't be impeached as long as republicans control the Senate, regardless of his crimes.  He won't be indicted because the FBI and special counsel agreed at the outset that he couldn't be, no matter what they found.  The only purpose of the of the Mueller investigation was to target people other than Trump, and in that mission it has been wildly successful.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million

https://lawandcrime.com/politics/judge-owns-doj-it-took-me-5-mins-to-figure-out-maria-butinas-sex-messages-were-jokes/

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/

Seems like the media has been screwing up quite a bit.

This is how 90% of the Russiagate thread went:
"Just look at all the indictments. He has accomplished something."
"Flynn was charged with lying to the FBI. (https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politics/michael-flynn-charged/index.html)

 Paul Manafort (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/03/robert-mueller-probe-ends-without-indictments-trump-jr-kushner-ivanka.html)

In Mueller’s most successful prosecution, the former Trump campaign chairman was sentenced to seven-and-a-half years in prison earlier this month for charges related to work he did outside of the Trump campaign. There was an open question about whether he might face additional conspiracy charges in any collusion case, and the answer appears to be that he will not.

Robert Gates plead guilty for work in Ukraine and financial fraud. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/30/the-paul-manafort-and-rick-gates-indictment-annotated/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e68a5b228653)

A lot of these things don't have much to do with the Trump campaign."

"They all plead out. They all had to give up something of worth in order to get a plea deal. Mueller has it now and will be aiming for Trump."

(Investigation ends without more indictments.)

"Umm"

So right now it seems that there is more than enough evidence that the President of the United States is a traitor and the special council shrugged?

Also this.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6488 on: March 24, 2019, 11:33:51 AM »
Seems like the media has been screwing up quite a bit.

How do you get your news if not from the media?

You've obviously heard about Mueller so you must watch some sort of news. Unless...you're an insider in the Mueller group!!!11!

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6489 on: March 24, 2019, 11:50:47 AM »
From the wapo article, here are the top 10 things that Trump has accomplished.

10. He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

9. He delivered for the “forgotten Americans.”

8. He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

7. He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

6. His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit

5. In the six months after the Singapore summit with North Korea, he has made no concessions to Pyongyang.

4. He struck Syria again and eliminated the last vestiges of the Islamic State’s physical caliphate.

3. He’s continued his tough line with Moscow.

2. He pulled out of Obama’s disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

1. He stood by Brett M. Kavanaugh and even in the worst moments never wavered.

Are you kidding me?

"domestic energy" The dude does not believe in anthropomorphic climate change. He is going in exactly the wrong direction for long term energy sustainability for both the US and the world as a whole. He gets a FAIL in this area.

"He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation." Yes he is so well known for his bipartisan negotiation skills. He was given a gift of republican led house and senate and even that he squandered because he has no coherent domestic or foreign policy and cannot string two sentences together lol lol


"He's continue his tough line with Moscow". What the?

And the Kavanaugh thing, why didn't this list also include his steadfast support of Roy Moore? Many of the male voters will forget this, but female voters will not. We will remember and we can vote. And many decent men I believe do not condone people like Kavanaugh and Moore who preyed on, harrassed and assaulted minor females, treating a female who could have been their future wife, or their sister, or their daughter in that way, not only NOT be censured but applauded and promoted to the highest position in their field.

Dude, this is the article EnjoyIt posted up above.   The first time I read it, I thought it was satire, but I believe it to be serious.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-10-best-things-trump-has-done-in-2018/2018/12/31/a2de64b6-0d1b-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.64536d6df16d

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6490 on: March 24, 2019, 11:54:58 AM »
-Trump 2020

Gross, and embarrassing.  Quoted for context, so your grandchildren can't deny it.

EnjoyIt

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6491 on: March 24, 2019, 12:02:04 PM »
-Trump 2020

Gross, and embarrassing.  Quoted for context, so your grandchildren can't deny it.

lol.  Thanks @sol
I am not embarrassed.  Trump is a slimy human being that has improved the US in my eyes and the eyes of many Americans.  You can't deny that if the economy stays strong he will have a second term and I will gladly vote for him despite his shortcomings.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6492 on: March 24, 2019, 12:08:15 PM »

The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this. The optics right now seems like people are falling back and finding rationalizations for keeping Russiagate alive.

You've got my scratching my head here, as you seem to be saying that Mueller's investigation found no connection to Russia even after Mueller has issued numerous indictments for Russian interference and acknowledging that several of those who have been convicted were charged because of their conduct with Russia.  Are we supposed to ignore everything that's already happened just because nothing further was announced?

Trump and his organizations are still under investigation.  That's not some theory of "the media", but public fact based on the numerous lawsuits filed publicly against him, the Trump Organization, the Trump Foundation and the Trump Campaign.  It's public record.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6493 on: March 24, 2019, 12:44:50 PM »
Trump and his organizations are still under investigation.  That's not some theory of "the media", but public fact based on the numerous lawsuits filed publicly against him, the Trump Organization, the Trump Foundation and the Trump Campaign.  It's public record.

Foxnews has a long history of not reporting Bad Things Happening to Republicans. It's entirely possible that some Trump supporters have never heard about those lawsuits, the SDNY investigations, or the Trump Foundation being shut down.

EnjoyIt

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6494 on: March 24, 2019, 12:50:03 PM »
Trump and his organizations are still under investigation.  That's not some theory of "the media", but public fact based on the numerous lawsuits filed publicly against him, the Trump Organization, the Trump Foundation and the Trump Campaign.  It's public record.

Foxnews has a long history of not reporting Bad Things Happening to Republicans. It's entirely possible that some Trump supporters have never heard about those lawsuits, the SDNY investigations, or the Trump Foundation being shut down.

I never go out of my way to listen to Fox News, but often find it playing in different areas where I work.  I can assure you that Fox News does report on bad things happening to Republicans.  Though, being a Republican biased organization they put a different spin on it compared to what you would see from CNN a Democrat biased news organization.  Both spins are flawed and biased which is why I don't use either as a source of political news.

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6495 on: March 24, 2019, 01:12:52 PM »
From the wapo article, here are the top 10 things that Trump has accomplished.

10. He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

9. He delivered for the “forgotten Americans.”

8. He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

7. He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

6. His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit

5. In the six months after the Singapore summit with North Korea, he has made no concessions to Pyongyang.

4. He struck Syria again and eliminated the last vestiges of the Islamic State’s physical caliphate.

3. He’s continued his tough line with Moscow.

2. He pulled out of Obama’s disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

1. He stood by Brett M. Kavanaugh and even in the worst moments never wavered.

Are you kidding me?

"domestic energy" The dude does not believe in anthropomorphic climate change. He is going in exactly the wrong direction for long term energy sustainability for both the US and the world as a whole. He gets a FAIL in this area.

"He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation." Yes he is so well known for his bipartisan negotiation skills. He was given a gift of republican led house and senate and even that he squandered because he has no coherent domestic or foreign policy and cannot string two sentences together lol lol


"He's continue his tough line with Moscow". What the?

And the Kavanaugh thing, why didn't this list also include his steadfast support of Roy Moore? Many of the male voters will forget this, but female voters will not. We will remember and we can vote. And many decent men I believe do not condone people like Kavanaugh and Moore who preyed on, harrassed and assaulted minor females, treating a female who could have been their future wife, or their sister, or their daughter in that way, not only NOT be censured but applauded and promoted to the highest position in their field.

Dude, this is the article EnjoyIt posted up above.   The first time I read it, I thought it was satire, but I believe it to be serious.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-10-best-things-trump-has-done-in-2018/2018/12/31/a2de64b6-0d1b-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.64536d6df16d

I know, same happened to me. it's scary when we can no longer tell what is satire and what is serious.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6496 on: March 24, 2019, 01:37:27 PM »
I skip all opinion pieces no matter what publication (even WaPo or CNN).  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just find myself better informed and happier if I don't read too many of these, many of them are clearly misinformed or biased.

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6497 on: March 24, 2019, 02:05:31 PM »
Seems like the media has been screwing up quite a bit.

How do you get your news if not from the media?

You've obviously heard about Mueller so you must watch some sort of news. Unless...you're an insider in the Mueller group!!!11!

Alternative media. Unfortunately this comes with a healthy dose of criticism of Main Stream Media baked in. Then again I shouldn't have to get three news sources, weigh their biases and then compare and contrast each article just to still be wrong because no one updated those articles when new information was found.


The general problem with saying "Trump is still under investigation" is that the media told the public "The Mueller report was going to be the silver bullet." The media seems to have faceplanted on this. The optics right now seems like people are falling back and finding rationalizations for keeping Russiagate alive.

You've got my scratching my head here, as you seem to be saying that Mueller's investigation found no connection to Russia even after Mueller has issued numerous indictments for Russian interference and acknowledging that several of those who have been convicted were charged because of their conduct with Russia.  Are we supposed to ignore everything that's already happened just because nothing further was announced?

Trump and his organizations are still under investigation.  That's not some theory of "the media", but public fact based on the numerous lawsuits filed publicly against him, the Trump Organization, the Trump Foundation and the Trump Campaign.  It's public record.

Bars summary was released. No collusion. A section listing possible obstruction to be determined by Attorney General.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/24/attorney-general-william-barr-to-release-mueller-russia-probe-findings.html

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706351394/read-the-justice-departments-summary-of-the-mueller-report

The second has the PDF.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 02:07:18 PM by gentmach »

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6498 on: March 24, 2019, 02:22:15 PM »
Seems like the media has been screwing up quite a bit.

How do you get your news if not from the media?

You've obviously heard about Mueller so you must watch some sort of news. Unless...you're an insider in the Mueller group!!!11!

Alternative media. Unfortunately this comes with a healthy dose of criticism of Main Stream Media baked in. Then again I shouldn't have to get three news sources, weigh their biases and then compare and contrast each article just to still be wrong because no one updated those articles when new information was found.

Alternative media means you don't have to worry about biases?

gentmach

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6499 on: March 24, 2019, 02:35:47 PM »
Seems like the media has been screwing up quite a bit.

How do you get your news if not from the media?

You've obviously heard about Mueller so you must watch some sort of news. Unless...you're an insider in the Mueller group!!!11!

Alternative media. Unfortunately this comes with a healthy dose of criticism of Main Stream Media baked in. Then again I shouldn't have to get three news sources, weigh their biases and then compare and contrast each article just to still be wrong because no one updated those articles when new information was found.

Alternative media means you don't have to worry about biases?

I do. Usually they cover the stuff no one else is covering so it is harder to get more articles on the subject.