Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 502027 times)

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5950 on: February 04, 2019, 01:59:54 PM »
Every once in a while, I try to imagine what a movie would look like based on the idea, "Hey, let's write a script about what would happen if that moron blowhard Donald Trump somehow ended up becoming president!"

And I realize that this reality is even stupider than that movie would be.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/04/we-have-very-fast-airplanes-trumps-foreign-policy-pronouncements-go-beyond-self-parody/?fbclid=IwAR25NHQSF09i45lOt_0lL6YWMfdMLnRRE8VVRAViKJoJk09NglMLdTTEDcA

And yet, it just keeps going downhill. Trump has now officially sold ad space in the State of the Union. How fucking crass (pardon the french).
http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/state-of-the-union-live-stream-trump-donor/

I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally and will try to get (well at least half of) the room to chant "Build the wall!"

The truly messed up thing is, I bet if he did, those sniveling weasels in the GOP would do it.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5951 on: February 04, 2019, 02:03:15 PM »
Every once in a while, I try to imagine what a movie would look like based on the idea, "Hey, let's write a script about what would happen if that moron blowhard Donald Trump somehow ended up becoming president!"

And I realize that this reality is even stupider than that movie would be.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/04/we-have-very-fast-airplanes-trumps-foreign-policy-pronouncements-go-beyond-self-parody/?fbclid=IwAR25NHQSF09i45lOt_0lL6YWMfdMLnRRE8VVRAViKJoJk09NglMLdTTEDcA

Idiocracy predicted this. It just came ahead of schedule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucKM36YtuXs

MDM

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5952 on: February 04, 2019, 02:06:08 PM »
I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally....
These days, that's pretty much what it is: half the attendees applaud until their hands fall off, while the other half sit in stony silence.  Which half is which just depends on the party of the president.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5953 on: February 04, 2019, 02:09:09 PM »
Hmm, how much vetting do you think they'll do? Probably not much given the volume.

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GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5954 on: February 04, 2019, 02:13:23 PM »
I P dupontrump

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5955 on: February 04, 2019, 02:24:20 PM »
I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally....
These days, that's pretty much what it is: half the attendees applaud until their hands fall off, while the other half sit in stony silence.  Which half is which just depends on the party of the president.
... and very little is actually about giving a report on the state of the union to congress, which is what's mandated in the constitution (though there's no requirement that it be done in person).   The current status of things are mentioned only in passing as a way to push some ambitious and politically unfeasible vision.
I actually find it counterproductive as both sides start in opposition, right down to the now-obligatory 'rebuttal speech.'  The clapping/stony-silence and the parading of VIPs to make some political point doesn't achieve anything.

I'm not watching this year.  If something spectacular and meaningful actually does happen I'm sure you guys can fill me in after the fact.  Outside my sphere of control anyway, and I've got a daughter I'd rather play with.  ~n~

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5956 on: February 04, 2019, 02:26:34 PM »
Every once in a while, I try to imagine what a movie would look like based on the idea, "Hey, let's write a script about what would happen if that moron blowhard Donald Trump somehow ended up becoming president!"

And I realize that this reality is even stupider than that movie would be.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/04/we-have-very-fast-airplanes-trumps-foreign-policy-pronouncements-go-beyond-self-parody/?fbclid=IwAR25NHQSF09i45lOt_0lL6YWMfdMLnRRE8VVRAViKJoJk09NglMLdTTEDcA

And yet, it just keeps going downhill. Trump has now officially sold ad space in the State of the Union. How fucking crass (pardon the french).
http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/state-of-the-union-live-stream-trump-donor/

I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally and will try to get (well at least half of) the room to chant "Build the wall!"

At this point, I'm pleasantly surprised that the White House doesn't bear giant gold block letters spelling out "TRUMP" across the front. His crassness has no limit.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5957 on: February 04, 2019, 02:38:53 PM »
At this point, I'm pleasantly surprised that the White House doesn't bear giant gold block letters spelling out "TRUMP" across the front. His crassness has no limit.

I was particularly amused by the portion of this superbowl interview where he said part of the reason he was rooting for the Patriots in the 2019 superbowl was that Louisiana voted for him in the 2016 electoral college.  Two teams played in the NFC championship game and you picked which one you liked based solely on which one was from a red state?  Wow, are you really so fixated on "winning" that you can't separate an election over two years ago with an NFL game today?

I mean I can kind of understanding having that kind of dirty and shallowly vindictive private thoughts when you're on the toilet, and then being embarrassed that your subconscious sunk so low, but then why would you go and repeat that sort of thing out loud to a reporter?

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5958 on: February 04, 2019, 02:45:46 PM »
Every once in a while, I try to imagine what a movie would look like based on the idea, "Hey, let's write a script about what would happen if that moron blowhard Donald Trump somehow ended up becoming president!"

And I realize that this reality is even stupider than that movie would be.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/04/we-have-very-fast-airplanes-trumps-foreign-policy-pronouncements-go-beyond-self-parody/?fbclid=IwAR25NHQSF09i45lOt_0lL6YWMfdMLnRRE8VVRAViKJoJk09NglMLdTTEDcA

And yet, it just keeps going downhill. Trump has now officially sold ad space in the State of the Union. How fucking crass (pardon the french).
http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/state-of-the-union-live-stream-trump-donor/

I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally and will try to get (well at least half of) the room to chant "Build the wall!"

At this point, I'm pleasantly surprised that the White House doesn't bear giant gold block letters spelling out "TRUMP" across the front. His crassness has no limit.

Is putting donor names on a big screen tv while he is giving the State of the Union, even legal?

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5959 on: February 04, 2019, 02:46:02 PM »
At this point, I'm pleasantly surprised that the White House doesn't bear giant gold block letters spelling out "TRUMP" across the front. His crassness has no limit.

I was particularly amused by the portion of this superbowl interview where he said part of the reason he was rooting for the Patriots in the 2019 superbowl was that Louisiana voted for him in the 2016 electoral college.  Two teams played in the NFC championship game and you picked which one you liked based solely on which one was from a red state?  Wow, are you really so fixated on "winning" that you can't separate an election over two years ago with an NFL game today?

I mean I can kind of understanding having that kind of dirty and shallowly vindictive private thoughts when you're on the toilet, and then being embarrassed that your subconscious sunk so low, but then why would you go and repeat that sort of thing out loud to a reporter?

Especially if the Patriots are from Mass., which voted 60% Clinton and 32.8% Trump in 2016. Tom Brady was almost certainly in the 32.8% and has vocally supported Trump. Fittingly, they are both cheaters.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5960 on: February 04, 2019, 02:50:15 PM »
Is putting donor names on a big screen tv while he is giving the State of the Union, even legal?

I wonder if the names scanned across the screen being made up (aka, Fake Names) would be a loophole on that?

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5961 on: February 04, 2019, 03:10:13 PM »
Every once in a while, I try to imagine what a movie would look like based on the idea, "Hey, let's write a script about what would happen if that moron blowhard Donald Trump somehow ended up becoming president!"

And I realize that this reality is even stupider than that movie would be.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/04/we-have-very-fast-airplanes-trumps-foreign-policy-pronouncements-go-beyond-self-parody/?fbclid=IwAR25NHQSF09i45lOt_0lL6YWMfdMLnRRE8VVRAViKJoJk09NglMLdTTEDcA

And yet, it just keeps going downhill. Trump has now officially sold ad space in the State of the Union. How fucking crass (pardon the french).
http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/state-of-the-union-live-stream-trump-donor/

I wonder if he thinks it is actually a campaign rally and will try to get (well at least half of) the room to chant "Build the wall!"

At this point, I'm pleasantly surprised that the White House doesn't bear giant gold block letters spelling out "TRUMP" across the front. His crassness has no limit.

Is putting donor names on a big screen tv while he is giving the State of the Union, even legal?

Probably not, but no one's going to stop him. Certainly, none of the major networks are going to refuse. Gross, isn't it?

Inaya

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5962 on: February 04, 2019, 03:16:55 PM »
I still thing the only reason he ended (paused?) the shutdown was so he can have his Big Important Televised Speech--especially if he viewed it as a fundraiser, which we now know he does.

Korrywow

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5963 on: February 04, 2019, 03:33:04 PM »
I think y'all are just jealous 'cause he's such a tall, handsome, sexy man with wonderful hair and a beautiful wife...and luckily for them, in the twitter-utube-facebook universe, literacy is irrelevant.

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5964 on: February 05, 2019, 08:19:17 AM »
So much winning...

Latvia Above Us, Croatia Below

Quote
The latest edition of “Freedom in the World,” Freedom House’s flagship report, has just been released. For the second year in a row, the United States had a score of 86, down from 94 in 2009. According to Michael Abramowitz, Freedom House’s president, it’s the lowest score for the United States since the survey began.

Though still ranked as free, America now falls below not just Canada and the Nordic countries, but also Greece, Latvia and Mauritius. “The current overall U.S. score puts American democracy closer to struggling counterparts like Croatia than to traditional peers such as Germany or the United Kingdom,” the report said.

cliffhanger

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5965 on: February 05, 2019, 09:13:59 AM »
So much winning...

Latvia Above Us, Croatia Below

Quote
The latest edition of “Freedom in the World,” Freedom House’s flagship report, has just been released. For the second year in a row, the United States had a score of 86, down from 94 in 2009. According to Michael Abramowitz, Freedom House’s president, it’s the lowest score for the United States since the survey began.

Though still ranked as free, America now falls below not just Canada and the Nordic countries, but also Greece, Latvia and Mauritius. “The current overall U.S. score puts American democracy closer to struggling counterparts like Croatia than to traditional peers such as Germany or the United Kingdom,” the report said.

So just to be clear, from the information provided:

2009: 94
.
.
2017: 86
2018: 86

When did Trump take office? And this whole article is a hit on Trump. This is why I've stopped caring when he calls media fake news.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5966 on: February 05, 2019, 09:26:12 AM »
So much winning...

Latvia Above Us, Croatia Below

Quote
The latest edition of “Freedom in the World,” Freedom House’s flagship report, has just been released. For the second year in a row, the United States had a score of 86, down from 94 in 2009. According to Michael Abramowitz, Freedom House’s president, it’s the lowest score for the United States since the survey began.

Though still ranked as free, America now falls below not just Canada and the Nordic countries, but also Greece, Latvia and Mauritius. “The current overall U.S. score puts American democracy closer to struggling counterparts like Croatia than to traditional peers such as Germany or the United Kingdom,” the report said.

So just to be clear, from the information provided:

2009: 94
.
.
2017: 86
2018: 86


When did Trump take office? And this whole article is a hit on Trump. This is why I've stopped caring when he calls media fake news.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/united-states

2016: 90

When you stopped caring, did you stop researching too?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:58:09 PM by JLee »

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5967 on: February 05, 2019, 09:32:06 AM »
Lower = better:

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 2/7
Civil Liberties 1.5/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2018/united-states
Freedom Rating 1.5/7
Political Rights 2/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2014/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2013/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2012/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2010/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2009/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2008/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2007/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2006/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2005/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2004/united-states
Freedom Rating 1/7
Political Rights 1/7
Civil Liberties 1/7

Tyler durden

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5968 on: February 05, 2019, 10:44:12 AM »
To JLee

Trump didn’t come into office until January 2017

Did you stop researching too?

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5969 on: February 05, 2019, 11:05:14 AM »
To JLee

Trump didn’t come into office until January 2017

Did you stop researching too?

Interesting first post to make on this forum in an off topic area.  Sock puppet?

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5970 on: February 05, 2019, 11:05:47 AM »
Relevant to this discussion of the deterioration of civil liberties in America, has anybody been following the case of 21 Savage?  Because it totally looks to me like some gestapo-level bullshit.

He's a somewhat famous musician, who was apparently brought to the US by parents who then overstayed their visa, making him technically an illegal alien.  He has been living in the US for the past 14 years and has filed the required paperwork, and his application is still pending.  Meanwhile, he got famous, started a family, made millions of dollars and supported a variety of charitable causes, which you might think would make him one of the desirable immigrants, the kind of person the US wants to encourage to move here.  He's a celebrity of sorts.  This is not a man who lives in the shadows.

Last week he publicly spoke out against Trump's border wall at a concert, and 5 days later ICE arrested him for deportation because his visa expired 13 years ago.  He is currently being held without bond, meaning he cannot be released under any circumstances, even though he has not been charged with any crime.  His crime is publicly speaking out about immigration reform, and for that he was apparently targeted for arrest and imprisonment.

He filed a U-Visa application with USCIS in 2017, so it's not like ICE just found out about this.  He has a legal right to stay in the US under existing law, because he is supporting a family of legal US resident.  He's arguably too famous to be a flight risk.  So why is he currently locked up, today?  It looks like he's been locked up for speaking out against Trump, specifically to communities of color. 

He's also a convicted criminal, having once served 12 months probation for unspecified drug-related charges.  You could say that about most rappers, though.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 11:08:12 AM by sol »

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5971 on: February 05, 2019, 11:23:02 AM »
Relevant to this discussion of the deterioration of civil liberties in America, has anybody been following the case of 21 Savage?  Because it totally looks to me like some gestapo-level bullshit.

It's a good reminder that non-citizens have almost zero civil liberties in this country. Detained without cause, searched without permission, denied access to legal council...  Something that's high on my list of things I'd like to see changed.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5972 on: February 05, 2019, 12:26:44 PM »
To JLee

Trump didn’t come into office until January 2017

Did you stop researching too?

Hello comrade! What point are you trying to make? 2017 and 2018 are two consecutive years that showed a significant drop to an unprecedented low.  As you kindly pointed out, Trump took office in January of 2017 -- right at the beginning of this historic low, which held through 2018 as well.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:28:41 PM by JLee »

Tyler durden

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5973 on: February 05, 2019, 12:50:51 PM »
To JLee

Trump didn’t come into office until January 2017

Did you stop researching too?

Hello comrade! What point are you trying to make? 2017 and 2018 are two consecutive years that showed a significant drop to an unprecedented low.  As you kindly pointed out, Trump took office in January of 2017 -- right at the beginning of this historic low, which held through 2018 as well.


Privyet comrade.

Someone above asked when trump took office. Your following reply had the year 2016. I was correcting an inaccurate statement. No issues with the rest

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5974 on: February 05, 2019, 12:57:07 PM »
To JLee

Trump didn’t come into office until January 2017

Did you stop researching too?

Hello comrade! What point are you trying to make? 2017 and 2018 are two consecutive years that showed a significant drop to an unprecedented low.  As you kindly pointed out, Trump took office in January of 2017 -- right at the beginning of this historic low, which held through 2018 as well.


Privyet comrade.

Someone above asked when trump took office. Your following reply had the year 2016. I was correcting an inaccurate statement. No issues with the rest

My response was filling in the blank data for the year 2016 (note the post included 2009, 2017, and 2018 numbers, implying that the downfall in score happened before Trump was elected). I provided the 2016 score to show that there was a drop that could be attributed to the Trump administration.  My apologies if I was unclear.

Omy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5975 on: February 06, 2019, 10:58:59 AM »
No SOTU comments? The trumpsters I know think it was the best speech ever and the rest of the people I know couldn't/didn't watch or called him out on his lies per minute. It's like we are living in two different countries.

waltworks

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5976 on: February 06, 2019, 11:06:16 AM »
I thought the speech was pretty good by Trump's admittedly low standards. Everyone exaggerates in the SOTU, so I'm not too concerned about "economy is the best in the world" not being strictly true or whatever.

The thing is, if he wanted to solve his wall/immigration problem, he could have used the SOTU to propose something like Dreamers-for-Wall. But that's already been repeatedly rejected by his base, so all he can do is slam the opposition for not "negotiating".

It was a wasted opportunity to convince his base (plus the conservative Twitterverse) that letting dreamers stay/increasing legal immigration is a good thing for 'Merica. I'd bet you could get a lot of Democrats and independents on board with the whole concept of more legal immigration and less illegal immigration, but without doing that, he's stuck in the same situation that led to the shutdown.

To be fair, SOTU is usually basically meaningless. This one was too, I'd say, except that it was also a missed opportunity.

-W
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 11:09:36 AM by waltworks »

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5977 on: February 06, 2019, 11:06:59 AM »
No SOTU comments? The trumpsters I know think it was the best speech ever and the rest of the people I know couldn't/didn't watch or called him out on his lies per minute. It's like we are living in two different countries.

What's the point of commenting? Trump lied like a rug. Just like always. Same shit, different day.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5978 on: February 06, 2019, 11:45:04 AM »
I thought this was telling:
Quote
"'If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation'" DJT

1. This alliterates like Johnny Cochrane wrote it (if the glove does not fit, you must ....)
2. This assumes that Congress cannot multitask and do two things at once. Also, Mueller is doing the meaningful investigation, who is not doing any legislation. The Congressional inquiries are constitutional authority, which Trump dislikes. In point:  he prefers "acting" appointments because they give him the ability to move faster. But, acting appointments are not supposed to do more than maintain the status quo until a Senate approved appointment is made, so he is either saying that he prefers acting appointments because they don't do much or because he wants to circumvent constitutional checks and balances.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5979 on: February 06, 2019, 12:43:54 PM »
No SOTU comments?
As I said upthread, I think the SOTU has been meaningless and counterproductive for decades. It's not in the president's purview to draft legislation, and little of what is proposed is ever politically feasible (otherwise it would already be in the works). Unlike in the  60s, there's no novelty or particular gravitas in seeing the president speak on television anymore. The conduct of those on the floor and in the gallery is even worse - depending on which 'side' you are on you either cheer like mad regardless of what's said or you sit in stony silence and try to concoct some expression of deep concern suitable for the cameras. The practice of inviting 'guests' who are in reality political props is atrocious; real people get reduced to little more than a partisan message. Ultimately the SOTU only tangentially covers the actual state of the union, because all those data (e.g. the jobs report, inflation, the budget) is already thoroughly disseminated and dissected.  Ergo, the constitutional reason for giving the SOTU has also been lost.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5980 on: February 06, 2019, 12:57:59 PM »
I think the SOTU has been meaningless and counterproductive for decades.

If that was true, they wouldn't do it anymore.

You just have look at it from their perspective.  It's no longer about the literal state of the union, it's just a televised chance to promote your party goals.  It's Big Brother writ large.  It's pageantry.  Frankly, I'm shocked they don't provide a musical score and dramatic stage effects like lighting changes and smoke bombs and trap doors.

It's another chance to say "We have always been at war with Eastasia" and dare anyone to disagree.  It's just posturing and theatrics designed to fire up your base voters, nothing more.  They might as well do it as an interview on Fox News or Rush Limbaugh's show, or hold it in a stadium.  Facts don't matter, only messaging.

From that perspective, it's the most important thing in the world to someone like Donald Trump, who's entire administration is predicated on a carefully sculpted version of reality.  His campaign was built on the illusion of authority and success imparted by his reality TV show, and he has internalized those messages so completely that even a historically meaningful event like a SOTU address is just another excuse to get on prime time and pump your Nielsen ratings in the pursuit of expanding your brand. 

marty998

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5981 on: February 06, 2019, 01:15:06 PM »
News outlets over here are running with Pelosi's sardonic applause.

Seems to basically sum up the state of play.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5982 on: February 06, 2019, 01:27:31 PM »
I think the SOTU has been meaningless and counterproductive for decades.

If that was true, they wouldn't do it anymore.

Sorry Sol - should have been more specific.
The SOTU has been meaningless and counterproductive for decades for anyone looking for meaningful insight or information about the current state of the union..

You are right - it's a multi-hour political ad for both sides. And you can trust it about as much as you can any other informercial on TV.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5983 on: February 06, 2019, 01:42:27 PM »
We've had six Presidents during my lifetime. Five of them received at least one rebuke via the midterm elections.

Reagan's Party lost the Senate in 1982
Clinton's party lost both chambers of Congress in 1994
George W. Bush's party lost congress in 2006
Obama had the 2010 Tea Party shellacking as well as the 2014 loss of the Senate
Trump's antics cost Republicans the House in 2018

In each of these cases, the SOTU represents an opportunity to try to regain some positive momentum for the President. It's a very pro-executive part of our culture and politics.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5984 on: February 06, 2019, 02:04:09 PM »

In each of these cases, the SOTU represents an opportunity to try to regain some positive momentum for the President. It's a very pro-executive part of our culture and politics.

@talltexan - Would you say that DJT succeeded in regaining positive momentum with this SOTU - or is this going to be a dead-cat bounce?

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5985 on: February 06, 2019, 02:39:30 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?

Omy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5986 on: February 06, 2019, 02:42:08 PM »
From the trumpsters I know, this was the best SOTU of all time and it secures his win in 2020.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5987 on: February 06, 2019, 02:53:43 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?
If the parents were allowed to become citizens due to her (in other words, their citizenship was linked - as in a chain - to hers) then yes.  Otherwise (e.g., if they chose to come here because she is here, and went through the normal immigration process that didn't rely on her), then no.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5988 on: February 06, 2019, 02:57:12 PM »
I thought this was telling:
Quote
"'If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation'" DJT

It's certainly an interesting counterpoint to "Lock her up!" and "Build that wall!"

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5989 on: February 06, 2019, 03:09:03 PM »
I thought this was telling:
Quote
"'If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation'" DJT

It's certainly an interesting counterpoint to "Lock her up!" and "Build that wall!"

It's just nonsense though, right?

Everyone intuitively understands "if there is going to be peace, there can be no war."  That makes sense, because those things are logical antitheses of each other.  But "legislation" and "investigation" are not logically connected.  They are not opposites.  They are not competing ideas.  They are not even done in the same branch of government.  They are totally unrelated, and you absolutely can have either one with or without the other.  Doesn't matter.

So this line appears to be trying to hide that fact by tying them up with ideas like "war" and "peace" as if to build a logically inconsistent analogy.  Trump was apparently trying to say that Congress won't pass any laws if the Mueller investigation isn't shut down.  Was he trying to make a threat?  Like is he promising to veto every single bill Congress sends him unless they shut down the Mueller investigation?  Because that's some serious Orwellian dangerzone right there, if that's what he's trying to say

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5990 on: February 06, 2019, 03:15:38 PM »
You just have look at it from their perspective.  It's no longer about the literal state of the union, it's just a televised chance to promote your party goals.  It's Big Brother writ large.  It's pageantry.  Frankly, I'm shocked they don't provide a musical score and dramatic stage effects like lighting changes and smoke bombs and trap doors.


hahaha that's awesome, the speech last night was definitely quite entertaining to watch.

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5991 on: February 06, 2019, 03:19:51 PM »
I thought this was telling:
Quote
"'If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation'" DJT

It's certainly an interesting counterpoint to "Lock her up!" and "Build that wall!"

It's just nonsense though, right?

Everyone intuitively understands "if there is going to be peace, there can be no war."  That makes sense, because those things are logical antitheses of each other.  But "legislation" and "investigation" are not logically connected.  They are not opposites.  They are not competing ideas.  They are not even done in the same branch of government.  They are totally unrelated, and you absolutely can have either one with or without the other.  Doesn't matter.

So this line appears to be trying to hide that fact by tying them up with ideas like "war" and "peace" as if to build a logically inconsistent analogy.  Trump was apparently trying to say that Congress won't pass any laws if the Mueller investigation isn't shut down.  Was he trying to make a threat?  Like is he promising to veto every single bill Congress sends him unless they shut down the Mueller investigation?  Because that's some serious Orwellian dangerzone right there, if that's what he's trying to say

Keep in mind that Trump didn't write that speech, and consider the people with influence who remain in his administration. Have we heard much from Stephen Miller lately?

As noted elsewhere, he (and advisors) may also be operating under the illusion that intelligent adults cannot work on multiple projects. And yes, there is an implied threat. No different from his campaign or presidency thus far.

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5992 on: February 06, 2019, 04:13:20 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?
If the parents were allowed to become citizens due to her (in other words, their citizenship was linked - as in a chain - to hers) then yes.  Otherwise (e.g., if they chose to come here because she is here, and went through the normal immigration process that didn't rely on her), then no.

The way I took it is when an immigrant becomes a citizen, that citizen can sponsor family members to migrate legally and therefore that is the reference to chain migration. They keep encouraging more and more of their relatives to come to the USA. Thus, chain migration.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5993 on: February 06, 2019, 04:24:11 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?
If the parents were allowed to become citizens due to her (in other words, their citizenship was linked - as in a chain - to hers) then yes.  Otherwise (e.g., if they chose to come here because she is here, and went through the normal immigration process that didn't rely on her), then no.
The way I took it is when an immigrant becomes a citizen, that citizen can sponsor family members to migrate legally and therefore that is the reference to chain migration. They keep encouraging more and more of their relatives to come to the USA. Thus, chain migration.
Seems we are saying the same thing - works for me.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5994 on: February 06, 2019, 04:31:21 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?
If the parents were allowed to become citizens due to her (in other words, their citizenship was linked - as in a chain - to hers) then yes.  Otherwise (e.g., if they chose to come here because she is here, and went through the normal immigration process that didn't rely on her), then no.
The way I took it is when an immigrant becomes a citizen, that citizen can sponsor family members to migrate legally and therefore that is the reference to chain migration. They keep encouraging more and more of their relatives to come to the USA. Thus, chain migration.
Seems we are saying the same thing - works for me.

Chain migration is just legal migration of related families, but that's precisely why the Steve King types hate it so much.  They're ALL brown!  The whole family of them!  Other people's babies are invading your country! 

The underlying assumption appears to be that we want white immigrants first, but then if we have to accept some brown ones we only want the hard working ones that will come here and fill shitty jobs, not their wive or children that don't work.  Chain migration brings families, not just workers.  If you let in the whole family, what's to stop them from popping out ten more brown babies that will all go on welfare?  It's a demographic disaster for the party.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:44:09 PM by sol »

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5995 on: February 06, 2019, 04:36:06 PM »
Trump keeps yapping about chain migration. His wife became an American citizen THEN her parents both became American citizens. Wouldn't that be considered chain migration?
If the parents were allowed to become citizens due to her (in other words, their citizenship was linked - as in a chain - to hers) then yes.  Otherwise (e.g., if they chose to come here because she is here, and went through the normal immigration process that didn't rely on her), then no.
The way I took it is when an immigrant becomes a citizen, that citizen can sponsor family members to migrate legally and therefore that is the reference to chain migration. They keep encouraging more and more of their relatives to come to the USA. Thus, chain migration.
Seems we are saying the same thing - works for me.

So, that means Trumps mother and father in law are chain migrants, the people he despises. Why don't people throw that in his face?

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5996 on: February 06, 2019, 04:51:46 PM »
So, that means Trumps mother and father in law are chain migrants, the people he despises. Why don't people throw that in his face?

Self awareness of his own hypocrisy is not his strong suit.  His hotels hire illegal immigrants.  He screams about tariffs but made all of his merchandise in China.  He accused Clinton of being in the pocket of the Russians.  What else did you expect?

Trump has made a career out of turning his own weaknesses into attack lines against his opponents.  He's fully aware that he married an illegal immigrant and then supported the chain migration of her family, and that might be a weakness in the GOP primary so he went full anti-immigrant during the campaign.  He's fully aware that he's overweight and the oldest President ever, so during the campaign he viciously attacked Clinton for supposedly lacking the stamina and vigor required of the job.  Are we seeing a pattern yet?  Should we also mention his attacks on the Clinton foundation for being corrupt, even though it's the Trump foundation that was found guilty of fraud?  I could go on, but I'm sure you can come up with your own examples. 

MDM

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5997 on: February 06, 2019, 05:52:28 PM »
So, that means Trumps mother and father in law are chain migrants, the people he despises. Why don't people throw that in his face?
Many people take advantage of laws they claim to oppose. 

E.g., anyone who says tax rates ought to increase but continues to pay as little as legally allowed. 

And Melania Trump used visa opposed by her husband to get her parents' citizenship - CNNPolitics.

He's fully aware that he married an illegal immigrant....
Except even the NY Times doesn't accuse her of such: Did Melania Trump Merit an ‘Einstein Visa’? Probably, Immigration Lawyers Say - The New York Times

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5998 on: February 06, 2019, 06:11:47 PM »
Many people take advantage of laws they claim to oppose. 

E.g., anyone who says tax rates ought to increase but continues to pay as little as legally allowed. 

People who pay as little tax as legally allowed are FOLLOWING the law.  A better example would have been people who say tax rates ought to increase while cheating on their taxes, right?

Except even the NY Times doesn't accuse her of such: Did Melania Trump Merit an ‘Einstein Visa’? Probably, Immigration Lawyers Say - The New York Times

Whether or not she was worthy of the visa she eventually got, it's pretty well established that she was in the country and getting paid to model before she had it.  She was an illegal immigrant, working under the table, at least temporarily.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 07:44:42 PM by sol »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #5999 on: February 06, 2019, 07:21:24 PM »
So, that means Trumps mother and father in law are chain migrants, the people he despises. Why don't people throw that in his face?
Many people take advantage of laws they claim to oppose. 

E.g., anyone who says tax rates ought to increase but continues to pay as little as legally allowed. 

I think one can (and in most cases) should take every opportunity to pay as little in tax as legally allowed, just as I think we collectively need to pay more in taxes - particularly if we want the kind of services that we seem to.  Those concepts are not mutually exclusive.

On the paying the minimum amount front -  deductions and credits were installed into our tax code to promote certain things that our society (or at least the special interest groups representing some aspect of society) have deemed worthy of support - e.g. child rearing, saving for ones retirement, owning a home, serving in the military.  Since they are there, I support using them, even when I may disagree with having a particular deduction.