Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 342192 times)

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4100 on: September 07, 2018, 07:56:15 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4101 on: September 07, 2018, 08:30:50 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

I don't think Trump will be removed from office either. He will slip thru loop holes deception and lies. I do think he will run for 2020 because he lives in his own fantasy world that he is the smartest President ever. He has enough boot lickers who will help him and bury their heads in the sand when he does stupid things because Trump has the power of the pen. The only way he won't run is if the walls keep closing in and he runs out of lies.

If he did resign and not run for 2020, he has the perfect excuse. He will blame everyone and the media for picking on him and making his presidency a WITCH HUNT! If he were smart as he claims, he would walk away and declare himself a hero instead of the zero he really is.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4102 on: September 07, 2018, 08:33:24 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

Hmm... interesting.  I can certainly see Trump deciding not to run again (especially if the political winds are unfavorable circa June 2019), he has a pattern of quitting and declaring victory.  I'm not as in agreement that he'd throw his weight around Pence - Trump's too much of an opportunist and has never been shy about throwing his most loyal supporters under the bus when its no longer convenient for him.  Pence has a problem in that he's not the kind of Firebrand to ignite the GOP base, he's religious views are way too extreme for most fiscal-conservatives and independents and he's hitched his wagon to Trump, so he'll carry whatever negative baggage Trump leaves office with.  For those reasons I think Pence would have a hard time winning a GOP primary if Trump takes his ball and goes home  He'll be virtually dead in the water if Trump is ejected from the game by Mueller.

One thing I do find under-appreciated - earlier @MasterStache mentioned how Trump probably regrets ever running and winning.  To some degree I think that's true (extra scrutiny, Melania's got to be pissed, etc) but he has accomplished two self-serving goals; he reduced his own taxable income 'bigely' with the tax overhaul and has ensured that most of the Trump Organization can function as pass-through entities. The changes to the estate tax will also save his heirs a ton of money.  Hard to judge what this means for him since he's been opaque about his holdings, but some independent estimates say he'll save $15MM every year.
It's possible they could ram through another tax-cut but he's accomplished one mission in reducing his own taxable burden, probably for the rest of his life.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4103 on: September 07, 2018, 09:04:07 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

Hmm... interesting.  I can certainly see Trump deciding not to run again (especially if the political winds are unfavorable circa June 2019), he has a pattern of quitting and declaring victory.  I'm not as in agreement that he'd throw his weight around Pence - Trump's too much of an opportunist and has never been shy about throwing his most loyal supporters under the bus when its no longer convenient for him.  Pence has a problem in that he's not the kind of Firebrand to ignite the GOP base, he's religious views are way too extreme for most fiscal-conservatives and independents and he's hitched his wagon to Trump, so he'll carry whatever negative baggage Trump leaves office with.  For those reasons I think Pence would have a hard time winning a GOP primary if Trump takes his ball and goes home  He'll be virtually dead in the water if Trump is ejected from the game by Mueller.

One thing I do find under-appreciated - earlier @MasterStache mentioned how Trump probably regrets ever running and winning.  To some degree I think that's true (extra scrutiny, Melania's got to be pissed, etc) but he has accomplished two self-serving goals; he reduced his own taxable income 'bigely' with the tax overhaul and has ensured that most of the Trump Organization can function as pass-through entities. The changes to the estate tax will also save his heirs a ton of money.  Hard to judge what this means for him since he's been opaque about his holdings, but some independent estimates say he'll save $15MM every year.
It's possible they could ram through another tax-cut but he's accomplished one mission in reducing his own taxable burden, probably for the rest of his life.

If Trump quits in 2020, I imagine the field of Republicans will be relatively small. Maybe 4-5 serious contenders instead of the 9-10 from 2016. He won't be supporting a Kasich or Flake. Maybe Rand? If Trump has to quit, who else will be his loyal supporters except for Evangelicals? They'll die with him to the end, and right now Pence embodies that. I don't think there is currently any other Evangelical candidate right now.

He has to know though that to avoid the estate tax you have to die at the right time. Democrats will no doubt be putting that back in their budget for 2019. It's always been the weakest Republican tax reform, and will no doubt be dropped back down to the 5 million exemption range. Maybe it won't succeed for 2019, but as soon as there is a Democrat majority, it's usually one of the first things to go.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4104 on: September 07, 2018, 09:23:59 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

I don't think Trump will be removed from office either. He will slip thru loop holes deception and lies. I do think he will run for 2020 because he lives in his own fantasy world that he is the smartest President ever. He has enough boot lickers who will help him and bury their heads in the sand when he does stupid things because Trump has the power of the pen. The only way he won't run is if the walls keep closing in and he runs out of lies.

If he did resign and not run for 2020, he has the perfect excuse. He will blame everyone and the media for picking on him and making his presidency a WITCH HUNT! If he were smart as he claims, he would walk away and declare himself a hero instead of the zero he really is.

Did everyone else forget that Trump is already  running for re-election? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2020

Just a reminder that I have been saying he will win then, and also run/win in 2024.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4105 on: September 07, 2018, 09:35:06 AM »
And after Harding came Coolidge who was elected to another term and Hoover after that.

Even a hundred years ago, a terrible presidency does not always mean that the winds will blow the other way. I wouldn't necessarily expect Pence to lose in 2020.

At this rate I feel you're possibly underestimating your own point.
I wouldn't necessarily expect Trump to lose in 2020.

I don't think Trump is likely to be removed from office. I just don't think he'll choose to run again. He'll have an out. The foundations to a media empire that he's always wanted, and he'll be able to bestow the crown to the next Repub. And Pence has always played close, loyal, and quiet. I think he's the only one Trump will trust, even if he finds him a bit weird.

I don't think Trump will be removed from office either. He will slip thru loop holes deception and lies. I do think he will run for 2020 because he lives in his own fantasy world that he is the smartest President ever. He has enough boot lickers who will help him and bury their heads in the sand when he does stupid things because Trump has the power of the pen. The only way he won't run is if the walls keep closing in and he runs out of lies.

If he did resign and not run for 2020, he has the perfect excuse. He will blame everyone and the media for picking on him and making his presidency a WITCH HUNT! If he were smart as he claims, he would walk away and declare himself a hero instead of the zero he really is.

Did everyone else forget that Trump is already  running for re-election? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2020

Just a reminder that I have been saying he will win then, and also run/win in 2024.

I'm aware that he's already campaigning, but that's never stopped people from quitting before, and DJT prides himself in walking away and declaring victory.  Why should now be any different if he starts to think he's unlikely to win?  Midterms should be a good barometer of that - if GOP holds the House he'll probably stay - if not I'm expecting him to take his ball and go home.

You are seriously predicting a repeal of the 22nd amendment?  How will that possibly happen?

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4106 on: September 07, 2018, 09:50:34 AM »
You are seriously predicting a repeal of the 22nd amendment?  How will that possibly happen?

I don't think it will get repealed, I think he'll just ignore it.  Who's going to stop him?  You?

Laws mean nothing anymore.  This administration is openly corrupt, flaunting every law they can find, and they are totally immune to any consequences.  Congress is not only turning a blind eye, they are actively supporting this disgrace.

The whole concept of "playing fair" went out the GOP window ages ago.  They are no longer bound by any of the rules, which has been Trump's one secret to success throughout his life.  Why bother to win with good strategy and hard work when you can just cheat?

I guess some state governors might try to raise a fuss if Trump runs for an illegal third term, but with Kavanaugh on the supreme court it won't matter.  How do you think African dictators stay in power for decades, and then pass power to their children, all within the confines of a supposed democracy?  They own the legislature and the courts, so they can do whatever they want.  Without a robust system of checks and balances, the autocrat is just a monarch.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4107 on: September 07, 2018, 11:25:07 AM »
You are seriously predicting a repeal of the 22nd amendment?  How will that possibly happen?

I don't think it will get repealed, I think he'll just ignore it.  Who's going to stop him?  You?

Laws mean nothing anymore.  This administration is openly corrupt, flaunting every law they can find, and they are totally immune to any consequences.  Congress is not only turning a blind eye, they are actively supporting this disgrace.

The whole concept of "playing fair" went out the GOP window ages ago.  They are no longer bound by any of the rules, which has been Trump's one secret to success throughout his life.  Why bother to win with good strategy and hard work when you can just cheat?

I guess some state governors might try to raise a fuss if Trump runs for an illegal third term, but with Kavanaugh on the supreme court it won't matter.  How do you think African dictators stay in power for decades, and then pass power to their children, all within the confines of a supposed democracy?  They own the legislature and the courts, so they can do whatever they want.  Without a robust system of checks and balances, the autocrat is just a monarch.

There's a lot of truth in this. The executive branch has gained a lot of power over the past 20 years. If an appeal court judge declares that Trump can't run again, what if Trump and the Republican party just say, "We're doing it anyway." Even if Trump is removed from the ballot in California, it won't matter.

There are enough Trump loyalists that will support him even if he's throwing children in cages; why wouldn't they support him if he wants to ignore the Constitution?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4108 on: September 07, 2018, 11:54:35 AM »
I'm skeptical he could pull this off, and that 5 justices would sign off on it.  Let's hope its never tested.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4109 on: September 07, 2018, 12:46:51 PM »
I gave some thought to this last year when I first started claiming it was possible.

Trump's open violation of the emoluments clause is significant, and it's a big hint that the process you describe could work; I think a war would be a key ingredient: FDR used the War in Europe as his justification for trying for the third term in 1940. When I first made the prediction, it was because I started noticing many similarities between Trump and FDR (Claiming to be a populist while coming from wealthy family; Twitter ~ Fireside Chats; politicizing the courts and the DoJ)

But I think declaring his candidacy for a third term will have to be done differently than the court battle you're describing.

He might do something more subtle, like put Pence forward in 2024, with Pence openly promising that Trump will be his running mate. Trump's willingness to brazenly admit to motivations for things (he did this after the Comey firing, for example) will mean he'll probably reveal pretty early on what the real plan is. (Putin did this with Medvediev in Russia after his first two terms).

Also, Republicans currently control 33 state legislatures. If Trump's perceived successes allow them to bump that up to 37, then you may well see that amendment be openly changed. The other amendment I could imagine would be getting rid of birthright citizenship. It would be quite unusual for a party in control of the WH to gain seats in lower levels, however.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4110 on: September 07, 2018, 12:58:01 PM »
I gave some thought to this last year when I first started claiming it was possible.

Trump's open violation of the emoluments clause is significant, and it's a big hint that the process you describe could work; I think a war would be a key ingredient: FDR used the War in Europe as his justification for trying for the third term in 1940. When I first made the prediction, it was because I started noticing many similarities between Trump and FDR (Claiming to be a populist while coming from wealthy family; Twitter ~ Fireside Chats; politicizing the courts and the DoJ)

But I think declaring his candidacy for a third term will have to be done differently than the court battle you're describing.

He might do something more subtle, like put Pence forward in 2024, with Pence openly promising that Trump will be his running mate. Trump's willingness to brazenly admit to motivations for things (he did this after the Comey firing, for example) will mean he'll probably reveal pretty early on what the real plan is. (Putin did this with Medvediev in Russia after his first two terms).

Also, Republicans currently control 33 state legislatures. If Trump's perceived successes allow them to bump that up to 37, then you may well see that amendment be openly changed. The other amendment I could imagine would be getting rid of birthright citizenship. It would be quite unusual for a party in control of the WH to gain seats in lower levels, however.

When FDR did it, it was only breaking precedence, not the constitution. It would be equally unconstitutional for Trump to run for VP or President, so I just don't see this nightmare scenario happening.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4111 on: September 07, 2018, 05:36:07 PM »
This isn't Trump's fault. This is just America being America.

https://www.facebook.com/deric.muhammad/videos/10214638283123899

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4112 on: September 07, 2018, 07:36:13 PM »
Arrested for riding with your grandma while black.  Great.

sequoia

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4113 on: September 07, 2018, 11:52:04 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45455774/jared-kushner-s-awkward-door-moment

This is hillarious. Apparently they do not need the senior advisor to the president to be present in important meeting.

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4114 on: September 08, 2018, 02:20:31 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45455774/jared-kushner-s-awkward-door-moment

This is hillarious. Apparently they do not need the senior advisor to the president to be present in important meeting.

"Any news on the mood in the room"?

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4115 on: September 08, 2018, 03:48:02 PM »
Here's an analysis of Trump's intelligence by a full professor of psychology named Jordan Peterson:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQyroQLr1Q    (Peterson is controversial in his own right, but I find he usually tries to stick to facts.)

He argues that Trump is obviously not an idiot based on his career accomplishments.   However, he also argues that Trump is not a genius.   What do you guys think about this?


GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4116 on: September 08, 2018, 04:04:51 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4117 on: September 08, 2018, 04:23:17 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I agree with this, but would add that I think he was of average intelligence. My guess is that he is in the early stages of dementia. He seems lucid at times, and completely out of it at other times which I think is pretty typical of when it's in the early stages.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4118 on: September 08, 2018, 04:58:20 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I agree with this, but would add that I think he was of average intelligence. My guess is that he is in the early stages of dementia. He seems lucid at times, and completely out of it at other times which I think is pretty typical of when it's in the early stages.

When commenting on the New York Times op ed Trump had two goes at pronouncing "anonymous", failed twice and moved on.  Almost certainly a medical deterioration in brain function - he would have been able to cope with that word going by video from 20 or so years ago.   Maybe even a couple of years ago when running for the Presidency - his speech and vocabulary during the debates was better than it is now.



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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4119 on: September 08, 2018, 05:28:15 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I agree with this, but would add that I think he was of average intelligence. My guess is that he is in the early stages of dementia. He seems lucid at times, and completely out of it at other times which I think is pretty typical of when it's in the early stages.

When commenting on the New York Times op ed Trump had two goes at pronouncing "anonymous", failed twice and moved on.  Almost certainly a medical deterioration in brain function - he would have been able to cope with that word going by video from 20 or so years ago.   Maybe even a couple of years ago when running for the Presidency - his speech and vocabulary during the debates was better than it is now.

Yeah, that was creepy. My FIL is in the middle stages of dementia, and what Trump is exhibiting now is where he was about two years ago. Not what you want in a president.

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4120 on: September 08, 2018, 06:05:53 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I'd be among the first to say that Trump is not a great businessman.   

However, the Trump Organization does own ow have an ownership stake in many hotels and resorts (Trump Tower, Trump World Tower, Mar-a-lago and many others) and licenses the trump name to dozens of others.    That's much more property than you or I are ever likely to own.    He had to get there somehow, and having a world-renowned name (before the presidency) is definitely an endeavour in which he succeeded.

His downfall seems to be his huge list of petty corruptions.   Dissembling, narcissism, fraud.     In my experience, these are all attributes of a low quality corporate executive.   Which I suspect is exactly what Trump is.    If Trump has a genius, it would be for influence.    He did not achieve his successes through hard work and competence, but rather through salesmanship and influence.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4121 on: September 08, 2018, 08:37:56 PM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I'd be among the first to say that Trump is not a great businessman.   

However, the Trump Organization does own ow have an ownership stake in many hotels and resorts (Trump Tower, Trump World Tower, Mar-a-lago and many others) and licenses the trump name to dozens of others.    That's much more property than you or I are ever likely to own.    He had to get there somehow, and having a world-renowned name (before the presidency) is definitely an endeavour in which he succeeded.

His downfall seems to be his huge list of petty corruptions.   Dissembling, narcissism, fraud.     In my experience, these are all attributes of a low quality corporate executive.   Which I suspect is exactly what Trump is.    If Trump has a genius, it would be for influence.    He did not achieve his successes through hard work and competence, but rather through salesmanship and influence.

The business stuff was initially founded in 1923 by his grandmother and father, then sold and later started up again.  He got there by being born into wealth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 08:40:44 PM by JLee »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4122 on: September 08, 2018, 09:03:07 PM »
Trump isn't good at business.  He has a tendency to run things into the ground, repeatedly.  I do think he is a great salesman.  He has a gut level instinct for human weakness and goes for the jugular every time without flinching.  I wouldn't call Trump "intelligent" in the way most people mean, but he does have a weird type of EQ, almost a "negative" EQ. 

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4123 on: September 09, 2018, 12:16:27 AM »
Trump isn't good at business.  He has a tendency to run things into the ground, repeatedly.  I do think he is a great salesman.  He has a gut level instinct for human weakness and goes for the jugular every time without flinching.  I wouldn't call Trump "intelligent" in the way most people mean, but he does have a weird type of EQ, almost a "negative" EQ.

Sociopath?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4124 on: September 09, 2018, 01:18:19 AM »
Trump isn't good at business.  He has a tendency to run things into the ground, repeatedly.  I do think he is a great salesman.  He has a gut level instinct for human weakness and goes for the jugular every time without flinching.  I wouldn't call Trump "intelligent" in the way most people mean, but he does have a weird type of EQ, almost a "negative" EQ.

Sociopath?

Bingo.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4125 on: September 09, 2018, 02:06:41 AM »
Trump isn't good at business.  He has a tendency to run things into the ground, repeatedly.  I do think he is a great salesman.  He has a gut level instinct for human weakness and goes for the jugular every time without flinching.  I wouldn't call Trump "intelligent" in the way most people mean, but he does have a weird type of EQ, almost a "negative" EQ.

Sociopath?

Bingo.

I've always thought he's simply engaging in gaslighting the whole world...

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4126 on: September 09, 2018, 06:22:42 AM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I agree with this, but would add that I think he was of average intelligence. My guess is that he is in the early stages of dementia. He seems lucid at times, and completely out of it at other times which I think is pretty typical of when it's in the early stages.

When commenting on the New York Times op ed Trump had two goes at pronouncing "anonymous", failed twice and moved on.  Almost certainly a medical deterioration in brain function - he would have been able to cope with that word going by video from 20 or so years ago.   Maybe even a couple of years ago when running for the Presidency - his speech and vocabulary during the debates was better than it is now.

So Trump was wrong when claimed that our body's are like a battery and exercising simply depletes the battery? Hmm, perhaps compulsive lying depleted his battery?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4127 on: September 09, 2018, 10:25:40 AM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I'd be among the first to say that Trump is not a great businessman.   

However, the Trump Organization does own ow have an ownership stake in many hotels and resorts (Trump Tower, Trump World Tower, Mar-a-lago and many others) and licenses the trump name to dozens of others.    That's much more property than you or I are ever likely to own.    He had to get there somehow, and having a world-renowned name (before the presidency) is definitely an endeavour in which he succeeded.

His downfall seems to be his huge list of petty corruptions.   Dissembling, narcissism, fraud.     In my experience, these are all attributes of a low quality corporate executive.   Which I suspect is exactly what Trump is.    If Trump has a genius, it would be for influence.    He did not achieve his successes through hard work and competence, but rather through salesmanship and influence.

The business stuff was initially founded in 1923 by his grandmother and father, then sold and later started up again.  He got there by being born into wealth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization

I don't understand how this fact is so consistently overlooked when people discuss Donald Trump.  I guess it's because of his reality TV show that constantly gave people the impression that he was a successful businessman.  Trump was born ridiculously rich.  He received a pretty huge inheritance.  There's an interesting article here:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/katestalter/2016/09/01/would-donald-trump-be-better-off-investing-in-stocks/#706f8346437b that points out that Donald Trump most likely would have been much better off investing his inheritance in the S&P500 that real estate.

Trump is much better off than most people because he started much better off than most people.  Little from his business endeavors can be pointed to as an impressive success, and much can be pointed to as personal failure.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4128 on: September 09, 2018, 11:25:20 AM »
I disagree with the stated premise that Trump has been successful in a variety of his endeavours.  He was a terrible businessman with unlimited pockets thanks to his father's money.  Trump is a memorable and gregarious man who regularly says and does things to draw attention to himself.  He has capitalized on this to gain success as a TV star and as a presidential candidate.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd guess that he's somewhere around average intelligence.  The reason that it seems he's a moron is that he so often lies, even on easily disproven things.  While this just appears to be a personality trait of his, it's hard for many to listen to a man spout incorrect statement after lie and think . . . yep, that's a smart guy.  Typically people associate being smart with having a correct answer.

I'd be among the first to say that Trump is not a great businessman.   

However, the Trump Organization does own ow have an ownership stake in many hotels and resorts (Trump Tower, Trump World Tower, Mar-a-lago and many others) and licenses the trump name to dozens of others.    That's much more property than you or I are ever likely to own.    He had to get there somehow, and having a world-renowned name (before the presidency) is definitely an endeavour in which he succeeded.

His downfall seems to be his huge list of petty corruptions.   Dissembling, narcissism, fraud.     In my experience, these are all attributes of a low quality corporate executive.   Which I suspect is exactly what Trump is.    If Trump has a genius, it would be for influence.    He did not achieve his successes through hard work and competence, but rather through salesmanship and influence.

The business stuff was initially founded in 1923 by his grandmother and father, then sold and later started up again.  He got there by being born into wealth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization

I don't understand how this fact is so consistently overlooked when people discuss Donald Trump.  I guess it's because of his reality TV show that constantly gave people the impression that he was a successful businessman.  Trump was born ridiculously rich.  He received a pretty huge inheritance.  There's an interesting article here:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/katestalter/2016/09/01/would-donald-trump-be-better-off-investing-in-stocks/#706f8346437b that points out that Donald Trump most likely would have been much better off investing his inheritance in the S&P500 that real estate.

Trump is much better off than most people because he started much better off than most people.  Little from his business endeavors can be pointed to as an impressive success, and much can be pointed to as personal failure.

It illustrates an inconvenient truth about the US - we like to fashion ourselves as 'the land of opportunity' but in reality we have a much lower level of economic mobility than most other developed nations. The biggest predictor in whether a person will be wealthy as an adult is whether their parents were wealthy when they were children.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-is-the-american-dream-alive-and-well/

The problem with evaluating Trump's financial success specifically is that we do not know what is financials really are.  If he is indeed worth 'TEN BILLION DOLLARS' as he has claimed, DJT has indeed been very successful (albeit with the obvious advantage of inhereted wealth).  If he's closer to the $1.xB that Forbes and others have pegged him at at various times he has just been average, given his circumstances.  But if he's 'only' got a few hundred million (or less) then he's been a relative failure given his inheritance and market conditions.

Many of concluded that Trump's unwillingness to disclose his taxes are because he's hiding something nefarious and illegal. Its also possible he's simply masking the record of a lackluster businessman.  Or he genuinely doesn't want to disclose for other reasons (e.g. to protect his business dealings and 'leverage').  Absent other information we just can't know for sure, and are left speculating.  A congressional policy mandating more financial information (e.g. tax filings) would go a long way towards helping the public judge the business acumen of its elected officials, as well as potential COIs.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4129 on: September 09, 2018, 05:20:20 PM »
I think if Trump's worth (net or otherwise) was well into 10 figures, he'd be happy to disclose it.    Winning, winning, winning is everything.   

Business is hard.   If Trump was a really bad businessman, (Lots of examples, like this guy   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_S._Zafirovski  who was responsible for the ultimate destruction of a multi-billion dollar corporation) he would have lost all of that inherited wealth, probably from easily avoided mistakes.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4130 on: September 09, 2018, 06:33:01 PM »
Business is hard.   If Trump was a really bad businessman, (Lots of examples, like this guy   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_S._Zafirovski  who was responsible for the ultimate destruction of a multi-billion dollar corporation) he would have lost all of that inherited wealth, probably from easily avoided mistakes.

Six of the companies Trump has managed have filed for bankruptcy:
1991 - Trump Taj Mahal - 3 billion in debt
1992 - Trump Castle Hotel & Casino - $550 million in debt
1992 - Trump Plaza Casino - $338 million in debt
1992 - Trump Plaza Hotel - $550 million in debt
2004 - Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts - 1.8 billion in debt
2009 - Trump Entertainment Resorts - 1.2 billion in debt

Trump has presided over a surprising number of other business failures too (some of which he's still paying off lawsuits on):
Trump Steaks
GoTrump
Trump Airlines
Trump Vodka
Trump Mortgage
Trump: The Game
Trump Magazine
Trump University
Trump Ice
The New Jersey Generals
Tour de Trump (To be fair, nobody makes money on bike rarces)
Trump Network
Trumped!

I'm certain that Donald Trump would agree that business is hard.  I'm not saying that he's the worst businessman ever. . . just that there's little he has done showing above average business acumen.  When you say "Well, he didn't lose ALL of daddy's money . . . therefore he must be an OK businessman." I'm not sure that I can agree with the sentiment.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4131 on: September 09, 2018, 06:49:18 PM »
Business is hard.   If Trump was a really bad businessman, (Lots of examples, like this guy   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_S._Zafirovski  who was responsible for the ultimate destruction of a multi-billion dollar corporation) he would have lost all of that inherited wealth, probably from easily avoided mistakes.

Six of the companies Trump has managed have filed for bankruptcy:
1991 - Trump Taj Mahal - 3 billion in debt
1992 - Trump Castle Hotel & Casino - $550 million in debt
1992 - Trump Plaza Casino - $338 million in debt
1992 - Trump Plaza Hotel - $550 million in debt
2004 - Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts - 1.8 billion in debt
2009 - Trump Entertainment Resorts - 1.2 billion in debt

Trump has presided over a surprising number of other business failures too (some of which he's still paying off lawsuits on):
Trump Steaks
GoTrump
Trump Airlines
Trump Vodka
Trump Mortgage
Trump: The Game
Trump Magazine
Trump University
Trump Ice
The New Jersey Generals
Tour de Trump (To be fair, nobody makes money on bike rarces)
Trump Network
Trumped!

I'm certain that Donald Trump would agree that business is hard.  I'm not saying that he's the worst businessman ever. . . just that there's little he has done showing above average business acumen.  When you say "Well, he didn't lose ALL of daddy's money . . . therefore he must be an OK businessman." I'm not sure that I can agree with the sentiment.

Trump is not a successful businessman. period. He just plays a successful businessman on TV.

His "business skills" was in real estate in NY, but Donald Trump is not a self made real estate guy. In NY in the 70s and 80s you didn't have to have business skills to make money, you just needed to be a white male with access to capital which is what he had. Dozens of others with access to capital did exactly the same as him as they all made money because NY real estate has exploded in the last 3 decades. There's a lot of others who did a lot better than him and they didn't have Daddy's capital. He didn't innovate, he didn't solve any problems or create a product. He bought real estate with daddy's money, sometimes put some buildings on it, and then tried to pass off the prosperity of NY real estate as some sort of amazing business skills. Essentially all of his actual forays into real businesses have either been disasters or at best a wash. There's a reason he didn't disclose any details of his financial situation and why the real billionaires laugh at him when he talks about his business skills.

His brand is based on his celebrity, lots of celebs have brands but they aren't good business people either. Trump had access to daddy's capital and bought real estate in NY 3 decades ago, has done nothing of note since, and yet people still think this guy is a good business man. He's not.

Looking forward to the house ways and means committee releasing his detailed financial information when dems win the house in November.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 06:51:38 PM by sixwings »

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4132 on: September 09, 2018, 11:20:52 PM »
A student in Montana was detained by the secret police for the crime of "not cheering loudly enough" for Dear Leader.  He was then ejected from the venue and told not to return.

A kid you not, this is America in 2018.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/opinions/plaid-shirt-guy-free-expression-obeidallah/index.html

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4133 on: September 10, 2018, 05:26:03 AM »
A student in Montana was detained by the secret police for the crime of "not cheering loudly enough" for Dear Leader.  He was then ejected from the venue and told not to return.

A kid you not, this is America in 2018.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/opinions/plaid-shirt-guy-free-expression-obeidallah/index.html

I saw that the other day. I was cracking up at his expressions. And I admire his honesty. Authoritarianism at it's finest.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4134 on: September 10, 2018, 05:31:45 AM »
A student in Montana was detained by the secret police for the crime of "not cheering loudly enough" for Dear Leader.  He was then ejected from the venue and told not to return.

A kid you not, this is America in 2018.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/opinions/plaid-shirt-guy-free-expression-obeidallah/index.html
Im having a hard time being outraged or even surprised by this one.  Campaign rallies are just stagecraft and propaganda.  All this did with #plaidshirtguy is lift back the curtain for a few seconds, but its pretty much the same for all campaigns.  You think a perfect cross section of diversity just randomly happens behind the dems wevery rally, or that a bunch of people just happened to bring large glossy signs that accurately reflect whatever issue the speaker is stumping on?

Just Joe

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4135 on: September 10, 2018, 08:19:43 AM »
And some people just eat that stuff up. Makes no sense to me. The guy is lying left and right, making stuff up, clearly just a big pep rally like we used to have in high school and people are hanging on his every word. Its like the myth that he is a great businessman. He's neither a good statesman nor a good businessman. Its just that we've been promised he has a pile of money and the people flock to his shiny brand - shiny but no substance. Like an amusement park with a big castle or mountain in the middle - its just a stage prop. No substance.   

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4136 on: September 10, 2018, 08:30:05 AM »
A student in Montana was detained by the secret police for the crime of "not cheering loudly enough" for Dear Leader.  He was then ejected from the venue and told not to return.

A kid you not, this is America in 2018.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/opinions/plaid-shirt-guy-free-expression-obeidallah/index.html
Im having a hard time being outraged or even surprised by this one.  Campaign rallies are just stagecraft and propaganda.  All this did with #plaidshirtguy is lift back the curtain for a few seconds, but its pretty much the same for all campaigns.  You think a perfect cross section of diversity just randomly happens behind the dems wevery rally, or that a bunch of people just happened to bring large glossy signs that accurately reflect whatever issue the speaker is stumping on?

Does the current president make any appearances to the public that are not campaign rallies?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4137 on: September 10, 2018, 08:53:27 AM »

Does the current president make any appearances to the public that are not campaign rallies?
Not as many as previous presidents.  His administration realized that choreographed rallies are a strength (of sorts), and unscripted appearences all too often end in disaster. He's all but given up joint news conferences after the first few went horribly off the rails, avoids (or is un/disinvited) to many traditional ceremonies (Funerals of Barbara Bush & John McCain, Kennedy Awards, etc) and now avoids going on news programs other than Fox & Friends, opting instead to send out his subordinates operating under NDAs that prohibit anything critical being said about him.


sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4138 on: September 10, 2018, 09:06:39 AM »
Im having a hard time being outraged or even surprised by this one.  Campaign rallies are just stagecraft and propaganda.

I am not at all surprised he was removed from camera view.  I am horrified that he was detained and questioned by the secret service, and then ejected. 

Trump seems to think that the US government serves him, rather than the other way around.  This event is symptomatic of his confusion on this issue, which has also led him to try to politically interfere with the justice department on numerous occasions.

Dear Donald Trump, US government employees do not serve you.  They serve the Constitution, and so do you.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4139 on: September 10, 2018, 09:43:30 AM »
I am not at all surprised he was removed from camera view.  I am horrified that he was detained and questioned by the secret service, and then ejected. 

I had not realized that he was detained and questioned.  Yes, that is a much more disturbing ball of wax, particularly since he did not appear to do anything threatening or dangerous.

Trump seems to think that the US government serves him, rather than the other way around.  This event is symptomatic of his confusion on this issue, which has also led him to try to politically interfere with the justice department on numerous occasions.

Dear Donald Trump, US government employees do not serve you.  They serve the Constitution, and so do you.
I am in full agreement with you here. Despite what he says in tweets and speeches, it is not 'his' DOJ, nor do career Feds owe him any personal loyalty.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4140 on: September 10, 2018, 11:25:53 AM »
I am not at all surprised he was removed from camera view.  I am horrified that he was detained and questioned by the secret service, and then ejected. 

I had not realized that he was detained and questioned.  Yes, that is a much more disturbing ball of wax, particularly since he did not appear to do anything threatening or dangerous.

Well, he said he was taken into a back room by Secret Service, asked for his ID, and then asked to leave and not come back.  He reiterated that the Secret Service was "very respectful" in its treatment of him.  So, I would quibble with framing of that interaction as a "questioning." But the underlying point is that this is a public servant speaking to the public, so members of the public should be allowed to peacefully attend regardless of whether they agree with what the public servant is saying.  The idea that people are being given MAGA hats to wear and told to be very enthusiastic and then getting kicked out for failure to do so is un-American.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4141 on: September 10, 2018, 12:04:05 PM »
I am not at all surprised he was removed from camera view.  I am horrified that he was detained and questioned by the secret service, and then ejected. 

I had not realized that he was detained and questioned.  Yes, that is a much more disturbing ball of wax, particularly since he did not appear to do anything threatening or dangerous.

Well, he said he was taken into a back room by Secret Service, asked for his ID, and then asked to leave and not come back.  He reiterated that the Secret Service was "very respectful" in its treatment of him.  So, I would quibble with framing of that interaction as a "questioning." But the underlying point is that this is a public servant speaking to the public, so members of the public should be allowed to peacefully attend regardless of whether they agree with what the public servant is saying.  The idea that people are being given MAGA hats to wear and told to be very enthusiastic and then getting kicked out for failure to do so is un-American.

Well... I guess my view is that when a law enforcement officer brings you anywhere, asks you questions and then tells you to leave, that constitutes 'questioning' and is in general not ok.  The defense that "oh, he wasn't charged with anything" is pretty weak if one feels they have no choice in the matter, and they have to alter their behavior because of it.  It feels very familiar to when minorities are pulled aside and asked a bunch of questions and then told to go someplace else - driving or eating at a restaurant or sitting in a park.

Yeah, the degree of staging and propaganda in our politics seems 'un-American' to me as well, but it's been the norm for decades.  Ever since television (and before the photography) has been a part of major political events the hosts have tried to control the message by selecting the people in view of the cameras, giving them signs, having them hold flags, etc.  Problem is, I'm not sure this nis something we should legislate our way out of.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4142 on: September 10, 2018, 01:12:21 PM »
If you watch more of the video, he's not the only person who gets replaced. They're actually switching people in and out pretty frequently. I don't know if they're trying to tweak the presentation or just giving more kids a chance. I don't think the fact that he was replaced is much of an issue, just the being taken aside and asked to leave part.

Aside from all that, his expressions are hilarious. I like to imagine this was some high school kid who thinks he likes Trump but doesn't actually follow or know anything about politics, just influenced by his friends and family. Then he actually hears how Trump rambles and he has a completely normal reaction - wtf is this guy talking about?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4143 on: September 10, 2018, 01:23:02 PM »
If you watch more of the video, he's not the only person who gets replaced. They're actually switching people in and out pretty frequently. I don't know if they're trying to tweak the presentation or just giving more kids a chance. I don't think the fact that he was replaced is much of an issue, just the being taken aside and asked to leave part.

Aside from all that, his expressions are hilarious. I like to imagine this was some high school kid who thinks he likes Trump but doesn't actually follow or know anything about politics, just influenced by his friends and family. Then he actually hears how Trump rambles and he has a completely normal reaction - wtf is this guy talking about?
From the article looks like he identifies as a social democrat. But he said he wasn't actively trying to troll. He said he took each issue individually, and those were his honest reactions.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-found-tyler-linfesty-plaid-shirt-guy-who-trolled-trumps-rally-with-hilarious-faces

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4144 on: September 10, 2018, 01:24:36 PM »
There are plenty of heirs to large fortunes who manage to lose it all and only make news in "what are they doing now" profiles. Trump was at least successful at spinning his inherited wealth into notoriety.

While not releasing his tax returns is bad, I think the failure to wall himself off from his business interests is far worse. Regarding the former, I found the Eric Trump argument that making them public would open them up to data mining and heightened tax liabilities actually compelling.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4145 on: September 10, 2018, 01:29:29 PM »
If you watch more of the video, he's not the only person who gets replaced. They're actually switching people in and out pretty frequently. I don't know if they're trying to tweak the presentation or just giving more kids a chance. I don't think the fact that he was replaced is much of an issue, just the being taken aside and asked to leave part.

Aside from all that, his expressions are hilarious. I like to imagine this was some high school kid who thinks he likes Trump but doesn't actually follow or know anything about politics, just influenced by his friends and family. Then he actually hears how Trump rambles and he has a completely normal reaction - wtf is this guy talking about?

He was interviewed on CNN and it was his 2 friends who were booted with him. As soon as they figured out the whole group wasn’t into it, they all had to go. Not an innocent “giving others time” situation


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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4146 on: September 10, 2018, 01:47:36 PM »
There are plenty of heirs to large fortunes who manage to lose it all and only make news in "what are they doing now" profiles. Trump was at least successful at spinning his inherited wealth into notoriety.

While not releasing his tax returns is bad, I think the failure to wall himself off from his business interests is far worse. Regarding the former, I found the Eric Trump argument that making them public would open them up to data mining and heightened tax liabilities actually compelling.
Is that an increased tax liability, or revelation of tax underpayment via shelters and/or omission?

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4147 on: September 10, 2018, 01:50:13 PM »
If you watch more of the video, he's not the only person who gets replaced. They're actually switching people in and out pretty frequently. I don't know if they're trying to tweak the presentation or just giving more kids a chance. I don't think the fact that he was replaced is much of an issue, just the being taken aside and asked to leave part.

Aside from all that, his expressions are hilarious. I like to imagine this was some high school kid who thinks he likes Trump but doesn't actually follow or know anything about politics, just influenced by his friends and family. Then he actually hears how Trump rambles and he has a completely normal reaction - wtf is this guy talking about?

He was interviewed on CNN and it was his 2 friends who were booted with him. As soon as they figured out the whole group wasn’t into it, they all had to go. Not an innocent “giving others time” situation


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Interesting. I know you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but my first thought watching the video was that those 3 looked a little out of place.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4148 on: September 10, 2018, 01:51:34 PM »
There are plenty of heirs to large fortunes who manage to lose it all and only make news in "what are they doing now" profiles. Trump was at least successful at spinning his inherited wealth into notoriety.

While not releasing his tax returns is bad, I think the failure to wall himself off from his business interests is far worse. Regarding the former, I found the Eric Trump argument that making them public would open them up to data mining and heightened tax liabilities actually compelling.
I heard that same argument and thought it was complete bogus - every president in the last 40 years has released their tax returns (save Ford, who released a tax summary). The financial declarations for most senior-level federal employees are actually far more inclusive than simple tax returns.

To argue that making tax returns public somehow exposes the individual i) ignores that a public servant shouldn't be earning money simultaneously and ii) places the wealth of he individual above the transparency and function of hte office.

Johnez

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #4149 on: September 10, 2018, 02:04:08 PM »
Bingo Nereo.

Are you a public servant or are you using the position to enrich yourself? Where are your priorities Mr. President? Kind of hard to tell. Romney and McCain both had issues with their wealth and they were pretty above board and tansparent about it all. I just don't understand how a rich city slicker New York "billionaire" can win over a bunch of salt of the earth people....actually I do and it's quite sad. Oy.