Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 263488 times)

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3000 on: July 19, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »
Funny thing is the Progressives are just as responsible in electing Trump as voters who actually voted for him. Recall some of the more "lively" debates on this forum. The Trump Show thus far and those issues share a common root: Post modernism.

A large group of "people" willingly gave up on facts in the name of tolerance. Tolerate all except intolerance right? Do these un-learned individuals (who also happen to think they are not stupid) even know what Popper originally said?

"But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument.”   - Karl Popper

Popper’s definition of intolerance was not hate speech and it was not even being an a-hole. An act of intolerance was originally meant to be as simple as being irrational and refusing to be open to arguments.  These days, however, most people equate intolerance to hate speech and being an a-hole; thus the people in power focus on suppressing such behaviors, leaving the originally defined form of intolerance to thrive in our society.

This misguided post-modern view of intolerance believes that each person is permitted to decide for himself with complete disregard to how the physical world operates, as if there is no objective truth, only narratives and perspectives. In short, we allowed people to have their own alternative realities, to freely believe whatever they want to believe in, refuting any rational arguments that may say otherwise.

When we abandon critical thinking in favor of inclusiveness or, as they say in China, “a harmonious society”, often we fall into the trap of neutrality and become afraid of rational and intelligent engagement. We become unwilling to be challenged by contrary opinions or even consider them, no matter how overwhelmingly compelling the evidences are.

The absence of critical thinking and intellectual rigor fuels the doxastic nature of delusion, a systematic rejection of reality in favor of a fantasy world based on our own narratives. Intolerance breeds intolerance in a self-sustaining feedback loop. Ironically, it is observed tolerance in modern societies also breeds intolerance, likely because we operate under a misconstrued definition of intolerance.

Tolerance of refuting rational argument and denouncing all argument leads to frustrations, misunderstandings, and contempt; this in turn breeds division and mistrust, until, the delusions are manifested as actions and we arrive at full on intolerance that threatens the security of the society. Once we get to this stage, tolerance is always supplanted by intolerance and only reinstated after much bloodshed.

Trump was not elected on November 8th, 2016; he was elected the day when we first gave up facts and truth for tolerance, inclusiveness, and "social justice". Crime and Punishment has come full cycle. Fight for what's true, not for what is "politically correct", no matter the cost.


nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3002 on: July 19, 2018, 12:45:46 PM »
I reject out of hand that someone who opposed Trump is just as responsible for his election as someone who voted for Trump.

protostache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3003 on: July 19, 2018, 12:49:39 PM »

sui generis

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3004 on: July 19, 2018, 12:53:58 PM »
None of this really matters. As long as we get's to keep our guns who gives a fuck what Trump does? Amirite???
And we get to punish women for killing their "babies"!  Anything for that!

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3005 on: July 19, 2018, 01:01:55 PM »
None of this really matters. As long as we get's to keep our guns who gives a fuck what Trump does? Amirite???
And we get to punish women for killing their "babies"!  Anything for that!

And we get to keep all of the brown people out of America, right?  Let's not forget that racism is just as central to the party line as gun violence and misogyny. 

Oh America, what has become of thee?

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3006 on: July 19, 2018, 02:11:14 PM »
I reject out of hand that someone who opposed Trump is just as responsible for his election as someone who voted for Trump.

alright. round and round we go.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3007 on: July 19, 2018, 02:25:33 PM »
I reject out of hand that someone who opposed Trump is just as responsible for his election as someone who voted for Trump.

alright. round and round we go.

Can you give some examples of people opposed to Trump who blatantly lied / mislead people as often and thoroughly as the Trump administration did?  Certainly, there are some idiots on both sides . . . but from where I'm sitting, the adoption of 'fake news' rejection of fact, rejection of science, has appeared to be more widespread in right wing circles.

About the most damaging group of fact rejectors in the left wing I can think of have been the anti-vaccine and 'alternative medicine' crew.  They've never come close to a majority on the left though.

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3008 on: July 19, 2018, 02:58:12 PM »
Tolerance of refuting rational argument and denouncing all argument leads to frustrations, misunderstandings, and contempt; this in turn breeds division and mistrust, until, the delusions are manifested as actions and we arrive at full on intolerance that threatens the security of the society. Once we get to this stage, tolerance is always supplanted by intolerance and only reinstated after much bloodshed.

Trump was not elected on November 8th, 2016; he was elected the day when we first gave up facts and truth for tolerance, inclusiveness, and "social justice". Crime and Punishment has come full cycle. Fight for what's true, not for what is "politically correct", no matter the cost.

I'm unsure of how you are relating political correctness with a tolerance of refuting rational argument. Could you give some examples?

There probably is some overlap but the refuting of rational argument has and always will exist. I'm also unsure of what the alternative to allowing people to be irrational is. State controlled media and internet access? Punishment for poor logic?

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3009 on: July 19, 2018, 03:40:25 PM »

Can you give some examples

No. This is a thread about The Trump Show, I don't want to derail it, so perhaps in another thread. That being said, the mods have publicly stated many times they follow the post modern interpretation of the Popper quote, with an emphasis on "civility" (subject to mods' personal preferences). I don't suffer fools well, especially when the data/studies support my unpopular conclusions. We both remember what happened the last time. ya?

This is their house and the mods make the rules, nothing wrong with that. Rules (and laws) are meant to keep/promote order, a well known secret (I recall you being a lawyer) but somehow not apparent to the general public.

I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention. Does anyone still remember what happened to Lindsay Shepherd? BS like that happens just as much on the left, or at least enough that Shepherd knew she had better record the meeting. Anyone remember/know about this guy? The list goes on and on.

We've simply looked another way because they are our natural allies against Trump, even though they spawned from the same seed. Keep it up, and we will never be rid of the likes of Trump.

Too much rhetoric? I am as much of a stable genius as the 45th, but at least I recognize I am close to 100% douche.

Now, let's return our focus on speculating about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...

Edit: Attempt to get it back on track. Trump not thrilled about the rate hikes!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 03:55:50 PM by anisotropy »

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3010 on: July 19, 2018, 04:07:40 PM »
Lindsay Shepherd is Canadian.   we bear no responsibility for electing the president of the US.   Separate country, eh.

Wexler

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3011 on: July 19, 2018, 04:34:28 PM »

Can you give some examples

No. This is a thread about The Trump Show, I don't want to derail it, so perhaps in another thread. That being said, the mods have publicly stated many times they follow the post modern interpretation of the Popper quote, with an emphasis on "civility" (subject to mods' personal preferences). I don't suffer fools well, especially when the data/studies support my unpopular conclusions. We both remember what happened the last time. ya?

This is their house and the mods make the rules, nothing wrong with that. Rules (and laws) are meant to keep/promote order, a well known secret (I recall you being a lawyer) but somehow not apparent to the general public.

I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention. Does anyone still remember what happened to Lindsay Shepherd? BS like that happens just as much on the left, or at least enough that Shepherd knew she had better record the meeting. Anyone remember/know about this guy? The list goes on and on.

We've simply looked another way because they are our natural allies against Trump, even though they spawned from the same seed. Keep it up, and we will never be rid of the likes of Trump.

Too much rhetoric? I am as much of a stable genius as the 45th, but at least I recognize I am close to 100% douche.

Now, let's return our focus on speculating about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...

Edit: Attempt to get it back on track. Trump not thrilled about the rate hikes!

So BOTH SIDES DO IT because even though the leader of the Republican party came to prominence promoting birtherism (apparently, I won't believe what his investigators found in HI), once a freshman SJW at Barnard was mean to a conservative professor and then some mean lady was rude to Jordan Peterson? 

We don't just see irrationality with the right wing crowd because Trump draws all the attention. We see millions of Americans voting for an ignoramus to run our country and signing on to the nonsense.  Trump voters.  Republicans.  They carry the blame.  They voted for a man who... well,  we've discussed it at length.  Liberals voted for an accomplished grandma with a resume a mile long who terrifies Putin, not a liberal arts college gender studies major shouting about veganism and pronouns.  So, both sides don't do it.  There is no equivalency.  I won't take the blame. 

And I didn't make these people vote for Trump because someone said they were racists or deplorables.  Honestly, at this point, that asessment is looking spot on.  They are willing to sell out our country to Russia.







MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3012 on: July 19, 2018, 04:47:04 PM »
I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention.

Rationality is subjective. From my position actively supporting a racist, misogynistic, sexist, bigoted bully who has bragged of sexual assaulting women (which is an actual crime) and committed human rights abuses against people from "shithole countries" and who is actively working against the interest of the US, seems pretty fucking irrational. I mean this a guy who thinks our bodies run on batteries. He has a lot of respect for murderous dictators (Putin and "Rocket man"). I could go on. But let's not pretend this is "mostly" Trump. It's pretty damn easy to stand up and say "I can't support this asshole and what he stands for because it's not who I am." 

With his approvals ratings still as high as they are (granted they are pretty damn low still) that's a lot of people supporting all this nonsense.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3013 on: July 19, 2018, 05:11:13 PM »
I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention.

Rationality is subjective. From my position actively supporting a racist, misogynistic, sexist, bigoted bully who has bragged of sexual assaulting women (which is an actual crime) and committed human rights abuses against people from "shithole countries" and who is actively working against the interest of the US, seems pretty fucking irrational. I mean this a guy who thinks our bodies run on batteries. He has a lot of respect for murderous dictators (Putin and "Rocket man"). I could go on. But let's not pretend this is "mostly" Trump. It's pretty damn easy to stand up and say "I can't support this asshole and what he stands for because it's not who I am." 

With his approvals ratings still as high as they are (granted they are pretty damn low still) that's a lot of people supporting all this nonsense.

Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard". 

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3014 on: July 19, 2018, 05:14:06 PM »
Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard".

I think I got a bingo on my fox news buzzword bingo card.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3015 on: July 19, 2018, 05:22:20 PM »
I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention.

Rationality is subjective. From my position actively supporting a racist, misogynistic, sexist, bigoted bully who has bragged of sexual assaulting women (which is an actual crime) and committed human rights abuses against people from "shithole countries" and who is actively working against the interest of the US, seems pretty fucking irrational. I mean this a guy who thinks our bodies run on batteries. He has a lot of respect for murderous dictators (Putin and "Rocket man"). I could go on. But let's not pretend this is "mostly" Trump. It's pretty damn easy to stand up and say "I can't support this asshole and what he stands for because it's not who I am." 

With his approvals ratings still as high as they are (granted they are pretty damn low still) that's a lot of people supporting all this nonsense.

Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard".

You really do not know how consent works.

Also, seriously?

bacchi

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craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3017 on: July 19, 2018, 05:24:40 PM »
Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard".

I think I got a bingo on my fox news buzzword bingo card.

Maybe I got a bingo on my MSDNC, Clinton News Network watching bingo card.  Try to address the substantive points I made.  I guess you can't.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3018 on: July 19, 2018, 05:27:26 PM »
Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard".

I think I got a bingo on my fox news buzzword bingo card.
Let's see here... 'Fake News' - redefining what Trump said - 'Corrupt Media' - randomly blaming Obama - libtard .... i think we have a winner!

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3019 on: July 19, 2018, 05:27:35 PM »
Obama

https://memegenerator.net/instance/74311575/marsha-obama-obama-obama

Newsflash: Obama is no longer the President.

Thankfully.  Not sure how this excuses blatant lies told to promote legislation.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3020 on: July 19, 2018, 05:33:50 PM »
I agree we see irrationality a lot with the right wing crowd these days, but it's mostly because their flag bearer is drawing much attention.

Rationality is subjective. From my position actively supporting a racist, misogynistic, sexist, bigoted bully who has bragged of sexual assaulting women (which is an actual crime) and committed human rights abuses against people from "shithole countries" and who is actively working against the interest of the US, seems pretty fucking irrational. I mean this a guy who thinks our bodies run on batteries. He has a lot of respect for murderous dictators (Putin and "Rocket man"). I could go on. But let's not pretend this is "mostly" Trump. It's pretty damn easy to stand up and say "I can't support this asshole and what he stands for because it's not who I am." 

With his approvals ratings still as high as they are (granted they are pretty damn low still) that's a lot of people supporting all this nonsense.

Your post would be an example of "fake news".  Trump did not "brag about assaulting women" in the Access Hollywood tape.  He said "they let you do it".  This is consensual "pu$$y grabbing".  Presumably an open minded sexually liberated individual like yourself would not condemn consensual genital grabbing, even if the women only let rich and famous guys do it.

The biggest lie of the 21st Century would be "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan".   This lie was told by Obama to promote the passage of legislation.  It was a lie to the American people promoted by a corrupt media.

If you think calling people racist and bigoted because they want to enforce immigration laws is productive, go right ahead.  Not interested in this ad hominem crap.   If you want to discuss issues rather than thinking anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or corrupt, that would be welcome.  Otherwise, go ahead and be a "libtard".

Uh, no. He admitted he never asked, so that’s not fucking consensual, thank you very much. He did not give one single shit whether they wanted him to.  At the most, “when you’re a celebrity, they let you do it” indicates that they were too intimidated to stop him.

It is pretty troubling — and telling — that you don’t see the difference. Jesus.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3021 on: July 19, 2018, 05:38:59 PM »
Obama

https://memegenerator.net/instance/74311575/marsha-obama-obama-obama

Newsflash: Obama is no longer the President.

Thankfully.  Not sure how this excuses blatant lies told to promote legislation.

When discussing Trump's comments about pussy grabbing, what does Obama have to do with it? Was Obama present at the time? Was he secretly recording the conversation when Trump stated that he was a pussy grabber?

In other words, two people can be liars and assholes at the same time. Bringing up one lie does not excuse the comments or actions of another person.

"Well, Trump said he was a pussy grabber but...Obama lied about health care!"

Do you see how ridiculous that is when people are discussing Trump? It's a form of equivalency and whataboutism that has no meaning.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3022 on: July 19, 2018, 05:40:19 PM »


Uh, no. He admitted he never asked, so that’s not fucking consensual, thank you very much. He did not give one single shit whether they wanted him to.  At the most, “when you’re a celebrity, they let you do it” indicates that they were too intimidated to stop him.

It is pretty troubling — and telling — that you don’t see the difference. Jesus.
[/quote]

All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3023 on: July 19, 2018, 05:41:18 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3024 on: July 19, 2018, 05:42:31 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Ah yes, when confronted by something you cannot lie or weasel your way out of, BUT THE CLINTONS!

You're like if Jeffrey Dahmer were on trial saying "well what about Hitler?" as his defense.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3025 on: July 19, 2018, 05:45:10 PM »
Obama

https://memegenerator.net/instance/74311575/marsha-obama-obama-obama

Newsflash: Obama is no longer the President.

Thankfully.  Not sure how this excuses blatant lies told to promote legislation.

When discussing Trump's comments about pussy grabbing, what does Obama have to do with it? Was Obama present at the time? Was he secretly recording the conversation when Trump stated that he was a pussy grabber?

In other words, two people can be liars and assholes at the same time. Bringing up one lie does not excuse the comments or actions of another person.

"Well, Trump said he was a pussy grabber but...Obama lied about health care!"

Do you see how ridiculous that is when people are discussing Trump? It's a form of equivalency and whataboutism that has no meaning.

I think behavior is judged by standards that have been set. There needs to be some consistency.

I don't like what Trump said.  It was, however, a private conversation and he wasn't the President or even in public office.  Unlike Obama and Clinton's lies.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3026 on: July 19, 2018, 05:46:42 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3027 on: July 19, 2018, 05:49:00 PM »
Obama

https://memegenerator.net/instance/74311575/marsha-obama-obama-obama

Newsflash: Obama is no longer the President.

Thankfully.  Not sure how this excuses blatant lies told to promote legislation.

When discussing Trump's comments about pussy grabbing, what does Obama have to do with it? Was Obama present at the time? Was he secretly recording the conversation when Trump stated that he was a pussy grabber?

In other words, two people can be liars and assholes at the same time. Bringing up one lie does not excuse the comments or actions of another person.

"Well, Trump said he was a pussy grabber but...Obama lied about health care!"

Do you see how ridiculous that is when people are discussing Trump? It's a form of equivalency and whataboutism that has no meaning.

I think behavior is judged by standards that have been set. There needs to be some consistency.

I don't like what Trump said.  It was, however, a private conversation and he wasn't the President or even in public office.  Unlike Obama and Clinton's lies.

Interesting, so you must then think that Trump should be impeached for lying while in office.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3028 on: July 19, 2018, 05:50:18 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 05:52:41 PM by Kris »

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3029 on: July 19, 2018, 05:50:57 PM »
Obama

https://memegenerator.net/instance/74311575/marsha-obama-obama-obama

Newsflash: Obama is no longer the President.

Thankfully.  Not sure how this excuses blatant lies told to promote legislation.

When discussing Trump's comments about pussy grabbing, what does Obama have to do with it? Was Obama present at the time? Was he secretly recording the conversation when Trump stated that he was a pussy grabber?

In other words, two people can be liars and assholes at the same time. Bringing up one lie does not excuse the comments or actions of another person.

"Well, Trump said he was a pussy grabber but...Obama lied about health care!"

Do you see how ridiculous that is when people are discussing Trump? It's a form of equivalency and whataboutism that has no meaning.

I think behavior is judged by standards that have been set. There needs to be some consistency.

I don't like what Trump said.  It was, however, a private conversation and he wasn't the President or even in public office.  Unlike Obama and Clinton's lies.

Interesting, so you must then think that Trump should be impeached for lying while in office.

Clinton lied under oath during a deposition.  He was even disbarred by the State of Arkansas for lying (he lost his law license).  He did not contest this.  Need to look this up. 

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3030 on: July 19, 2018, 05:52:50 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t really understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.

Melania is pretty hot.  The Donald isn't my thing.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3031 on: July 19, 2018, 05:53:57 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t really understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.

Melania is pretty hot.  The Donald isn't my thing.

The other thing I notice is that a lot of super sexist dudes are extremely unattractive themselves.

Hm.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3032 on: July 19, 2018, 05:55:14 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.

So we can't make fun of the physical characteristics of politicians?  Then no more "orange" references about Trump.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3033 on: July 19, 2018, 05:56:12 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t really understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.

Melania is pretty hot.  The Donald isn't my thing.

The other thing I notice is that a lot of super sexist dudes are extremely unattractive themselves.

Hm.

Super Sexist?  Naw.  Don't like Hildebeast's ankles.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3034 on: July 19, 2018, 05:56:27 PM »
Newsflash - the election is over

Exactly! This is why we're discussing the current President, Trump. You're the one that brought up Obama and Clinton.

I realize that this is a common tactic of Foxnews -- their headliners were all about Clinton just a few days ago, which is why you're probably hot and bothered about it -- but whataboutism doesn't fly around here.

If you want to sensibly defend Trump's actions and words, feel free. Or keep on tilting against windmills.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3035 on: July 19, 2018, 05:57:21 PM »
All this hand-wringing over what Trump said but nothing over what Bill Clinton did.  Don't you think the White House intern was intimidated by the Commander in Chief?

Newsflash: Bill Clinton is no longer the President.

Get over it.

Newsflash - the election is over and and your gal "Cankles" Clinton lost.  Get over it.

It’s not really surprising that a guy who doesn’t understand the concept of female consent would toss out a pathetic and sexist insult of Clinton. Because, you know, Trump is super attractive. I’m sure his ankles are hawt, y’all.

Fucking Christ.

So we can't make fun of the physical characteristics of politicians?  Then no more "orange" references about Trump.

Personally, I never bother to comment on Trump’s physical appearance.

His narcissism, weakness, stupidity, immorality, and treasonous behavior are more than enough for me.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3036 on: July 19, 2018, 05:57:57 PM »
Hey! Let's get back to speculating!

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3037 on: July 19, 2018, 05:58:11 PM »
Not defending Trump's words.  Just putting this "scandal" into some context.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3038 on: July 19, 2018, 05:58:44 PM »
Hey! Let's get back to speculating!

I speculate that Trump has worse cankles than Hillary.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3039 on: July 19, 2018, 05:59:30 PM »
Hey! Let's get back to speculating!


Agreed. I tried but I will no longer feed the troll.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3040 on: July 19, 2018, 06:00:42 PM »
Not defending Trump's words.  Just putting this "scandal" into some context.

You are attempting to justify his words with the illogical defense of saying "well other people did bad shit too."

That IS a defense.

craimund

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3041 on: July 19, 2018, 06:03:04 PM »
Not defending Trump's words.  Just putting this "scandal" into some context.

You are attempting to justify his words with the illogical defense of saying "well other people did bad shit too."

That IS a defense.

Saying boorish things isn't a crime - yet.  Other people (i.e., Clinton and Obama) did bad shit while they were president.  Trump said bad shit before he was president.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3042 on: July 19, 2018, 06:04:46 PM »
I am very curious if Trump will actually send a former US ambassador to Russia for questioning.

Also, Microsoft today reported the first verifiable Russian tampering in the 2018 elections.
https://www.nbcnews.com/card/microsoft-executive-says-three-2018-campaigns-have-been-targeted-phishing-n892836


golden1

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3043 on: July 19, 2018, 06:05:36 PM »
Stop arguing with the fox cult members.  It’s a pointless waste of energy. 



anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3044 on: July 19, 2018, 06:09:24 PM »

Rationality is subjective.

I am aware rationality in modern lingo has to do with personal core beliefs. I can't speak for Popper, but to me, rationality means the ability and the will to distinguish facts from fiction or narratives, so no, it is not subjective and can be measured objectively. I would go even further and associate it with how one scores on a CRT (cognitive reflection test), which measure a person's tendency to override an incorrect "gut" response and engage in further reflection to find a correct answer.

As an elitist and a douche, I don't view someone a "true" person until one can successfully pass a CRT. After all, what really separates us from animals? Maybe nothing. Oh wait, most animals don't lie...

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3045 on: July 19, 2018, 06:10:05 PM »
Interesting 538 article, https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-trump-bowed-to-pressure-after-his-press-conference-with-putin/.

Quote
Last year, we came up with a “Trump opposition meter,” identifying six powerful blocs who could limit or check Trump:

    The federal bureaucracy.
    The courts.
    Democrats in Congress.
    Republicans in Congress.
    The public.
    The press.

Trump backs down, at least initially, if more than 1/2 of the power blocs are against him. The current crisis is at least a Level 5, with some of the public still supporting him. The immigration fuckup was a Level 6 with all but the most base (=those who think forcibly separating young children from their parents is a good idea) among us against Trump and Miller.

As these crises happen more and more, I speculate that bloc 4, Republicans in Congress, will begin to be more critical of Trump. Without that bloc, and with the bureacracy (particularly the Pentagon) against him, Trump will take his marbles and go home. Pence will finish his term.



golden1

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3046 on: July 19, 2018, 06:10:15 PM »
Trumps recent behavior is really puzzling to me.  I mean, it’s as if someone said “How could Trump make himself look more beholden to Putin?” And he just went ahead and did it.

The “would” vs, “wouldn’t” thing is hilarious.  It’s actually worse than “It depends on what your definition of “is” is.”   

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3047 on: July 19, 2018, 06:13:04 PM »
Stop arguing with the fox cult members.  It’s a pointless waste of energy.

Personally, I’m not arguing with anyone. I’m pointing out sexist shitbag behavior.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3048 on: July 19, 2018, 06:15:41 PM »
Stop arguing with the fox cult members.  It’s a pointless waste of energy.

Personally, I’m not arguing with anyone. I’m pointing out sexist shitbag behavior.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of arguing, really - mostly reality being presented by most people and then rejected by another.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #3049 on: July 19, 2018, 06:16:27 PM »
I am very curious if Trump will actually send a former US ambassador to Russia for questioning.

The Senate voted (in another almost worthless Resolution) 98-0 to not send any Americans to Russia for (enhanced) interrogation. Trump backed down (again) right before the vote.

It'd make for an interesting SC case if Trump pushed it. Would the partisan "constitutionalist" SC agree with Trump? Would the dozen or so people go into hiding, hidden by patriots (liberals and conservatives working together?!?) as the Breitbart/pizzagate crowd searches for them using the power of the state? I guess California or the UK are the best places to hide.

Strange times.