Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 404039 times)

Just Joe

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2950 on: July 18, 2018, 01:49:38 PM »
Almost every conversation I have with a pro-life person eventually comes down to language that amounts to this. And funnily enough, the language of abstinence never really quite gets to the part where the guy should be abstinent, too. Just the woman.

Funny how that double standard works too. And WHO is the guy sewing his wild oats with? So what's a guy to do??? Chopping firewood and cold showers perhaps. ;)

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2951 on: July 18, 2018, 01:50:49 PM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.


Riiiiight.

I'm so sorry.  Sarah Huckabee Sanders has now said that when Trump said "no" in reply to the question "is Russia still interfering in USA elections" he was refusing to answer the question, rather than answering it in the negative.


I don't understand how I could have failed to make that distinction.  My bad.

It isn't you.  This administration is scrambling to find a narrative that won't be almost instantaneously refuted by our own intelligence agencies nor require Trump to refute what he said in front of Putin just two days ago. 

They've already tried some linguistic gymnastics with little success (I misspoke for 45 minutes / i meant would not wouldn't / it was a double negative). Trump tried to paint all critics as being dumb, deranged lunatics but this includes the majority of commentators, including lots in the Fox ecosphere.

It will be interesting to see where they run with this. I'm still predicting they manufacture another cultural controversy (within the next 48 hours... distraction seems to work best.

Just Joe

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2952 on: July 18, 2018, 01:57:23 PM »
I still worry they'll manufacture an emergency that justifies bullets and bombs and innocent people get hurt - probably overseas somewhere.

GreenEggs

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2953 on: July 18, 2018, 03:17:25 PM »
Where's a super hero when we need one?


Seriously, don't the real billionaires want to get rid of Trump as much as the rest of us do?  I don't understand how guys like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, & Buffet keep watching this crap.  They obviously could have him removed.  What's holding them back? 

dividendman

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2954 on: July 18, 2018, 03:27:49 PM »
Where's a super hero when we need one?


Seriously, don't the real billionaires want to get rid of Trump as much as the rest of us do?  I don't understand how guys like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, & Buffet keep watching this crap.  They obviously could have him removed.  What's holding them back?


Umm... how do you figure that? They didn't want Trump elected in the first place yet there he sits.

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2955 on: July 18, 2018, 04:17:05 PM »
Apparently this morning Trump also 'revised' his earlier statements about how N Korea was going to denuclearize by 2020.  Now he says there is 'no timetable' for that.  I suspect this is the result of some input by Putin, but Trump is such a moron that possibly he has already forgotten that the only reason he could tout his summit with KJU as a success was b/c of how he supposedly fixed the nuclear threat to the U.S. in a couple of hours with a handshake and a detail-less 'agreement'.   

golden1

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2956 on: July 18, 2018, 06:23:03 PM »
The tech billionaires donít live by the same rules as we all do.  Borders, laws, taxes are all irrelevant.  Trump is a useful distraction to keep the masses divided so that they donít unite and actually understand how badly they have rigged the system in their favor. 

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2957 on: July 18, 2018, 06:51:05 PM »
The tech billionaires donít live by the same rules as we all do.  Borders, laws, taxes are all irrelevant.  Trump is a useful distraction to keep the masses divided so that they donít unite and actually understand how badly they have rigged the system in their favor.
Do they have a secret handshake?

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2958 on: July 18, 2018, 07:11:31 PM »
Trump is so easily played. Putin mentions Hillary and Trump looks behind his back. (Or he's Putin's puppy and Putin told him to do this.)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/white-house-not-ruling-out-putin-proposal-to-let-russia-question-ex-us-ambassador-prominent-financier.html

Quote
The White House said Wednesday that President Trump would consider whether to allow Russian prosecutors to interview onetime U.S. ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul and other Americans in connection with criminal claims against Bill Browder, a prominent critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Why? Because the former ambassador and Browder (per Putin) helped Hillary in her campaign.

Putin also wants to question those involved with the Magnitsky Act because something-something Hillary.


Is this a WH test to see what kind of criticism the idea would get?

protostache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2959 on: July 18, 2018, 07:33:14 PM »
Trump is so easily played. Putin mentions Hillary and Trump looks behind his back. (Or he's Putin's puppy and Putin told him to do this.)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/white-house-not-ruling-out-putin-proposal-to-let-russia-question-ex-us-ambassador-prominent-financier.html

Quote
The White House said Wednesday that President Trump would consider whether to allow Russian prosecutors to interview onetime U.S. ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul and other Americans in connection with criminal claims against Bill Browder, a prominent critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Why? Because the former ambassador and Browder (per Putin) helped Hillary in her campaign.

Putin also wants to question those involved with the Magnitsky Act because something-something Hillary.


Is this a WH test to see what kind of criticism the idea would get?

Putin definitely doesn't want to put Browder in a dungeon and then beat him to death like he did Magnitsky, no sir. Just wants to have a nice discussion about those emails or whatever.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2960 on: July 18, 2018, 08:53:31 PM »
Trump is so easily played. Putin mentions Hillary and Trump looks behind his back. (Or he's Putin's puppy and Putin told him to do this.)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/white-house-not-ruling-out-putin-proposal-to-let-russia-question-ex-us-ambassador-prominent-financier.html

Quote
The White House said Wednesday that President Trump would consider whether to allow Russian prosecutors to interview onetime U.S. ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul and other Americans in connection with criminal claims against Bill Browder, a prominent critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Why? Because the former ambassador and Browder (per Putin) helped Hillary in her campaign.

Putin also wants to question those involved with the Magnitsky Act because something-something Hillary.


Is this a WH test to see what kind of criticism the idea would get?

Putin definitely doesn't want to put Browder in a dungeon and then beat him to death like he did Magnitsky, no sir. Just wants to have a nice discussion about those emails or whatever.

I'm sure Browder is avoiding the US right now. The UK would never hand him over.

Johnez

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2961 on: July 18, 2018, 09:05:14 PM »
Where's a super hero when we need one?


Seriously, don't the real billionaires want to get rid of Trump as much as the rest of us do?  I don't understand how guys like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, & Buffet keep watching this crap.  They obviously could have him removed.  What's holding them back?

How are you proposing powerful individuals "remove" Trump? As far as I know, the way to do that is  political action, editorials, public displays-which is already being done. Anything  else, in secret or ways that only the powerful can manage, leads to a dark road nobody wants our country to wander down. Imagine Murdoch, Koch bros and maybe Walton "getting rid" of Obama...

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2962 on: July 18, 2018, 09:36:11 PM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.

Riiiiight.

I'm so sorry.  Sarah Huckabee Sanders has now said that when Trump said "no" in reply to the question "is Russia still interfering in USA elections" he was refusing to answer the question, rather than answering it in the negative.

I don't understand how I could have failed to make that distinction.  My bad.

The only bit that is somewhat shocking about Trump continuing to voice his preference of Putin's worldview over that of the entire US Intelligence apparatus, is that we are confused about what Trump 'meant to say'.  Sorry Sarah, but there needs to be a whole lot more meat on the bones of your clarification of where Trump and the White House stand on Russian meddling in elections, because I'm still pretty convinced we are being told to turn a blind to the past and not necessarily putting all of the necessary resources needed to stop Russia in the future.

The 2018 and 2020 elections, and especially their legitimacy, feel like a turning point for America.  Can you imagine going 2020 - 2024 with an unfettered Trump, a rubber-stamp Congress, and a Supreme Court that favors Trump's policies?

Not sure where I saw it, but 'the trust and confidence of other countries is won in drops, but lost in bucket-fulls'.

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2963 on: July 19, 2018, 02:20:06 AM »
Trump's real giveaway is that there have been front-page headlines and countless suggestions all over the broadcast news for much of the last week that Trump is a traitor, and neither Trump nor anyone in the White House is contradicting that in any way, or expressing outrage.  Or even expressing mild dismay that their good intentions for the USA should be misinterpreted so comprehensively.


Given Trump's touchiness about a lot of the criticisms about him, the fact that he is letting this one go completely says everything that is needed to be said.

Zamboni

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2964 on: July 19, 2018, 03:21:00 AM »
@former player

I wish there was a way to star or thumbs up your post.

GreenEggs

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2965 on: July 19, 2018, 06:17:28 AM »
Where's a super hero when we need one?


Seriously, don't the real billionaires want to get rid of Trump as much as the rest of us do?  I don't understand how guys like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, & Buffet keep watching this crap.  They obviously could have him removed.  What's holding them back?

How are you proposing powerful individuals "remove" Trump? As far as I know, the way to do that is  political action, editorials, public displays-which is already being done. Anything  else, in secret or ways that only the powerful can manage, leads to a dark road nobody wants our country to wander down. Imagine Murdoch, Koch bros and maybe Walton "getting rid" of Obama...


Of course you're right, but.  Obama was just a guy that happened to be black & a Democrat.  Thump is off the chart on everything, except he happens to be white and a Republican.  A heart attact wouldn't be too messy.  ;)

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2966 on: July 19, 2018, 06:24:29 AM »
Oh good god...

Trump met with Putin behind closed doors with no one other than the interpreters present.
Now the Russian ambassador is claiming "Important verbal agreements" were made between the two countries regarding national security and arms treaties.

...you can claim just about anything when there were no witnesses.  Given that Trump is reluctant (for whatever reason) to contradict Putin, the Russians now feel free to claim all sorts of things were 'promised'. 

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2967 on: July 19, 2018, 07:04:01 AM »
Oh good god...

Trump met with Putin behind closed doors with no one other than the interpreters present.
Now the Russian ambassador is claiming "Important verbal agreements" were made between the two countries regarding national security and arms treaties.

...you can claim just about anything when there were no witnesses.  Given that Trump is reluctant (for whatever reason) to contradict Putin, the Russians now feel free to claim all sorts of things were 'promised'.

Yeah.

Who couldíve seen that coming?

/s

DarkandStormy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2968 on: July 19, 2018, 08:28:51 AM »
Trump was briefed on highly classified intel in Jan. 2017 before taking office that showed Putin was behind election interference.

Almost like everything he's said related to Russia has been pure bullshit.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2969 on: July 19, 2018, 08:30:29 AM »
So, related to this week's Helsinki shit show, and Trump's pathetic attempts to backpedal, and the GOP's complete paralysis.

This is an article about the Russia situation that I think is worth reading. It puts into context something very important and on the surface confusing: right-wing complacency -- or worse, happiness on the part of some -- about the prospect of Trump's closeness to Putin.

Read the whole article. It is chilling. But here is one pull-out quote:

"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2970 on: July 19, 2018, 08:42:30 AM »
So, related to this week's Helsinki shit show, and Trump's pathetic attempts to backpedal, and the GOP's complete paralysis.

This is an article about the Russia situation that I think is worth reading. It puts into context something very important and on the surface confusing: right-wing complacency -- or worse, happiness on the part of some -- about the prospect of Trump's closeness to Putin.

Read the whole article. It is chilling. But here is one pull-out quote:

"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

Now THAT is a psychological angle to Trump's evangelical support that I hadn't thought of.  Though I should have, in hindsight.  Theocracies are not democracies, after all.  And theocracy is what a big subset of American Christians are promoting.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2971 on: July 19, 2018, 08:43:32 AM »
"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

I can see the motivation for such a belief among some US looney tunes, but I think it's an unnecessarily complicated explanation.  More likely, in my view, is the simpler story of greed.  Trump has always been deeply insecure and he wants people to see him as successful and wealthy.  He has repeatedly failed at business, was financially saved by investments from Putin's oligarchs, and is now financially obligated to do Putin's bidding.  He's a bought and paid for puppet of the Russian state, because they helped him prop up his failing public image with cash, and he has to follow Putin's orders or risk being exposed as a fraud.

My theory has more supporting evidence than the Christian-apocalypse people who just want to stick it to liberalism, I think.  Trump's financial dependence on Russia is well known by this point.  The timing of his pro-Russia rhetoric aligns too neatly with the arrival of Russian financing.  I'm not saying that there aren't Americans who think we should partner up with our cold war enemies, but I suspect their motivations are not Trump's motivations for doing so.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2972 on: July 19, 2018, 08:50:00 AM »
So, related to this week's Helsinki shit show, and Trump's pathetic attempts to backpedal, and the GOP's complete paralysis.

This is an article about the Russia situation that I think is worth reading. It puts into context something very important and on the surface confusing: right-wing complacency -- or worse, happiness on the part of some -- about the prospect of Trump's closeness to Putin.

Read the whole article. It is chilling. But here is one pull-out quote:

"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

Now THAT is a psychological angle to Trump's evangelical support that I hadn't thought of.  Though I should have, in hindsight.  Theocracies are not democracies, after all.  And theocracy is what a big subset of American Christians are promoting.
It doesn't make sense because Russia is not particularly religious. In fact there is a history of religious persecution. As far as law-abiding, both the citizens and the government, European countries are more law-abiding. And european countries are various flavors of democracies, which is what we pride we are, and allows alot of things to positively flourish here, including freedom of press, that do not in authoritative countries. But I guess making sense is not their strong suit.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2973 on: July 19, 2018, 08:56:29 AM »
"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

I can see the motivation for such a belief among some US looney tunes, but I think it's an unnecessarily complicated explanation.  More likely, in my view, is the simpler story of greed.  Trump has always been deeply insecure and he wants people to see him as successful and wealthy.  He has repeatedly failed at business, was financially saved by investments from Putin's oligarchs, and is now financially obligated to do Putin's bidding.  He's a bought and paid for puppet of the Russian state, because they helped him prop up his failing public image with cash, and he has to follow Putin's orders or risk being exposed as a fraud.

My theory has more supporting evidence than the Christian-apocalypse people who just want to stick it to liberalism, I think.  Trump's financial dependence on Russia is well known by this point.  The timing of his pro-Russia rhetoric aligns too neatly with the arrival of Russian financing.  I'm not saying that there aren't Americans who think we should partner up with our cold war enemies, but I suspect their motivations are not Trump's motivations for doing so.

Regarding your first point: I'm not talking at all about Trump's motivation. I'm talking, as I said, about Russia's motivation, and specifically about right-wing love for Putin and how it very likely has deeper roots that go back longer than just "Trump likes Putin, so I like him, too!"

And regarding your second point: Have you spent much time talking with pro-Trump people lately? Because a lot of what I hear from them about Russia echoes pretty closely the quote I pulled from the article. And again, I'm not talking about Trump's motivations. He's just a useful idiot.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2974 on: July 19, 2018, 08:57:52 AM »
So, related to this week's Helsinki shit show, and Trump's pathetic attempts to backpedal, and the GOP's complete paralysis.

This is an article about the Russia situation that I think is worth reading. It puts into context something very important and on the surface confusing: right-wing complacency -- or worse, happiness on the part of some -- about the prospect of Trump's closeness to Putin.

Read the whole article. It is chilling. But here is one pull-out quote:

"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

Now THAT is a psychological angle to Trump's evangelical support that I hadn't thought of.  Though I should have, in hindsight.  Theocracies are not democracies, after all.  And theocracy is what a big subset of American Christians are promoting.
It doesn't make sense because Russia is not particularly religious. In fact there is a history of religious persecution. As far as law-abiding, both the citizens and the government, European countries are more law-abiding. And european countries are various flavors of democracies, which is what we pride we are, and allows alot of things to positively flourish here, including freedom of press, that do not in authoritative countries. But I guess making sense is not their strong suit.

Right. But as the article said, what Russia, and Putin in particular, have going for them with the far right is a strong homophobic and Islamophobic streak, and a near-pathological obsession with pedophilia.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2975 on: July 19, 2018, 08:58:46 AM »
So, related to this week's Helsinki shit show, and Trump's pathetic attempts to backpedal, and the GOP's complete paralysis.

This is an article about the Russia situation that I think is worth reading. It puts into context something very important and on the surface confusing: right-wing complacency -- or worse, happiness on the part of some -- about the prospect of Trump's closeness to Putin.

Read the whole article. It is chilling. But here is one pull-out quote:

"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

Now THAT is a psychological angle to Trump's evangelical support that I hadn't thought of.  Though I should have, in hindsight.  Theocracies are not democracies, after all.  And theocracy is what a big subset of American Christians are promoting.
It doesn't make sense because Russia is not particularly religious. In fact there is a history of religious persecution. As far as law-abiding, both the citizens and the government, European countries are more law-abiding. And european countries are various flavors of democracies, which is what we pride we are, and allows alot of things to positively flourish here, including freedom of press, that do not in authoritative countries. But I guess making sense is not their strong suit.

Russia's hella anti-gay though, with a long history of persecuting people for homosexuality.  If you believe that being gay is dirty and sinful, then Russia is clearly doing God's work.

GreenEggs

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2976 on: July 19, 2018, 09:05:25 AM »
"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

I can see the motivation for such a belief among some US looney tunes, but I think it's an unnecessarily complicated explanation.  More likely, in my view, is the simpler story of greed.  Trump has always been deeply insecure and he wants people to see him as successful and wealthy.  He has repeatedly failed at business, was financially saved by investments from Putin's oligarchs, and is now financially obligated to do Putin's bidding.  He's a bought and paid for puppet of the Russian state, because they helped him prop up his failing public image with cash, and he has to follow Putin's orders or risk being exposed as a fraud.

My theory has more supporting evidence than the Christian-apocalypse people who just want to stick it to liberalism, I think.  Trump's financial dependence on Russia is well known by this point.  The timing of his pro-Russia rhetoric aligns too neatly with the arrival of Russian financing.  I'm not saying that there aren't Americans who think we should partner up with our cold war enemies, but I suspect their motivations are not Trump's motivations for doing so.


Right, Trump doesn't give a shit about religion or guns.  He's in it for the money.  But, much of his base is made of people that do care about religion and guns.  Putin is working this from multiple angles, looking for any weakness he can utilize.  Trump is a simple man, and the Extreme Right's views aren't complicated to understand.  Wall Street's greed covers the rest of the GOP that might otherwise be paying attention.  The minority doesn't matter at the moment. 
I've been thinking that Trump is the problem, but actually it's Putin.  He's the brains behind all of this. 

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2977 on: July 19, 2018, 09:13:40 AM »
"So there is a U.S. religious constituency that very self-consciously supports Trumpís apparent interest in forming a new world order based on a Washington-Moscow axis, outflanking the decadent, secular, tolerant globalists of Western Europe."

I can see the motivation for such a belief among some US looney tunes, but I think it's an unnecessarily complicated explanation.  More likely, in my view, is the simpler story of greed.  Trump has always been deeply insecure and he wants people to see him as successful and wealthy.  He has repeatedly failed at business, was financially saved by investments from Putin's oligarchs, and is now financially obligated to do Putin's bidding.  He's a bought and paid for puppet of the Russian state, because they helped him prop up his failing public image with cash, and he has to follow Putin's orders or risk being exposed as a fraud.

My theory has more supporting evidence than the Christian-apocalypse people who just want to stick it to liberalism, I think.  Trump's financial dependence on Russia is well known by this point.  The timing of his pro-Russia rhetoric aligns too neatly with the arrival of Russian financing.  I'm not saying that there aren't Americans who think we should partner up with our cold war enemies, but I suspect their motivations are not Trump's motivations for doing so.


Right, Trump doesn't give a shit about religion or guns.  He's in it for the money.  But, much of his base is made of people that do care about religion and guns.  Putin is working this from multiple angles, looking for any weakness he can utilize.  Trump is a simple man, and the Extreme Right's views aren't complicated to understand.  Wall Street's greed covers the rest of the GOP that might otherwise be paying attention.  The minority doesn't matter at the moment. 
I've been thinking that Trump is the problem, but actually it's Putin.  He's the brains behind all of this.

This. Trump is a useful front; he's familiar to Americans who consume a lot of media after several decades in the US tabloids, followed by a recent successful stint as a reality TV host. He's a blowhard who is naturally deferent to perceived authority (e.g., Putin), has a long history of bail-outs for failed business deals, and enough cognitive decline that he will parrot whatever was most recently fed to him by a strong authority. The latter explains why he came out on international TV immediately after the meeting with Putin and sold out the US government, but after 24 hours of public (and likely private) excoriation, he was blathering about double negatives.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2978 on: July 19, 2018, 09:56:07 AM »
What's blown my mind is how fast hard-liner in the GOP have switched their position on how we ought to approach Russia.  Whereas Russia was recently "our enemy" that "can't be trusted" and needed to be "kept in check by NATO and the US" - suddenly I'm hearing a chorus of "wouldn't it be great if we got along with Russia" and comments about how we shouldn't consider Russia's human rights transgressions (which include: torture, assassinations, lack of a free press, lack of an independent judiciary, annexing of sovereign states... and that's just the last five years) because the US is "far from perfect". The joint assessment of the threat posed by Russia is now "an opinion" by "some individuals".
WTF?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2979 on: July 19, 2018, 10:07:13 AM »
What's blown my mind is how fast hard-liner in the GOP have switched their position on how we ought to approach Russia.  Whereas Russia was recently "our enemy" that "can't be trusted" and needed to be "kept in check by NATO and the US" - suddenly I'm hearing a chorus of "wouldn't it be great if we got along with Russia" and comments about how we shouldn't consider Russia's human rights transgressions (which include: torture, assassinations, lack of a free press, lack of an independent judiciary, annexing of sovereign states... and that's just the last five years) because the US is "far from perfect". The joint assessment of the threat posed by Russia is now "an opinion" by "some individuals".
WTF?

Marching orders are coming from Hannity and the NRA, and the latter is clearly a Russian operative.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2980 on: July 19, 2018, 10:17:39 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2981 on: July 19, 2018, 10:20:50 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

holy fuck.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2982 on: July 19, 2018, 10:26:52 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

holy fuck.

rofl

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2983 on: July 19, 2018, 10:42:17 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

I am kind of curious what kind of deal he an Putin put together on shared security interests. Syria, maybe? Seems like congress and the American people should know, right? Putin claims that Russia is ready to start implementing it. Hope the Pentagon knows what's coming, at least.

dividendman

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2984 on: July 19, 2018, 10:50:18 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

I am kind of curious what kind of deal he an Putin put together on shared security interests. Syria, maybe? Seems like congress and the American people should know, right? Putin claims that Russia is ready to start implementing it. Hope the Pentagon knows what's coming, at least.

Well, Trump wants another meeting with Putin. So let's wait to see that shitshow first.

DarkandStormy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2985 on: July 19, 2018, 10:51:30 AM »
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/7/18/1781619/-Art-of-the-Bum-Deal-Donald-Trump-has-managed-to-increase-the-cost-of-Air-Force-One-by-1-billion

Art of the Bum Deal: Donald Trump has managed to increase the cost of Air Force One by $1 billion

Trump negotiated against himself apparently and now is paying $1 billion more than previously budgeted for Air Force One.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2986 on: July 19, 2018, 10:52:09 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

I am kind of curious what kind of deal he an Putin put together on shared security interests. Syria, maybe? Seems like congress and the American people should know, right? Putin claims that Russia is ready to start implementing it. Hope the Pentagon knows what's coming, at least.

This is something that I'm completely confused about - the President (any US President) has a great deal of power forging agreements with other nation states, but if nobody knows about a deal that was forged... how can it take effect? Wouldn't it have to become public (or at least known to the federal agencies) to be implamented?

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2987 on: July 19, 2018, 10:55:26 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

I am kind of curious what kind of deal he an Putin put together on shared security interests. Syria, maybe? Seems like congress and the American people should know, right? Putin claims that Russia is ready to start implementing it. Hope the Pentagon knows what's coming, at least.

This is something that I'm completely confused about - the President (any US President) has a great deal of power forging agreements with other nation states, but if nobody knows about a deal that was forged... how can it take effect? Wouldn't it have to become public (or at least known to the federal agencies) to be implamented?

That's the beauty of it: if no one knows what is said, Putin can ask for anything going forward, claim that it was agreed upon in the meeting, and expect (with good reason) that Trump will acquiesce.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2988 on: July 19, 2018, 10:59:01 AM »
It's really depressing, isn't it?  My hope is this will all wind down by early 2019.  I realize we will have President Pence, and believe me he's no prize, but the current regime is a total shitshow.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2989 on: July 19, 2018, 11:02:25 AM »
And, in other news: Republicans just blocked an attempt to subpoena the interpreter at the Trump-Putin meeting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-block-democrat-attempt-subpoena-trump-interpreter/story?id=56687970&cid=social_fb_abcn

Because, you know, they want Trump in there at least as long as it takes to get his Supreme Court nominee confirmed. And if we actually knew what Trump said to Putin, they know it's likely there would be a push to have him expelled from the presidency for treason.

Which means that they are near-accomplices to treason.

I am kind of curious what kind of deal he an Putin put together on shared security interests. Syria, maybe? Seems like congress and the American people should know, right? Putin claims that Russia is ready to start implementing it. Hope the Pentagon knows what's coming, at least.

This is something that I'm completely confused about - the President (any US President) has a great deal of power forging agreements with other nation states, but if nobody knows about a deal that was forged... how can it take effect? Wouldn't it have to become public (or at least known to the federal agencies) to be implamented?

That's the beauty of it: if no one knows what is said, Putin can ask for anything going forward, claim that it was agreed upon in the meeting, and expect (with good reason) that Trump will acquiesce.

Sure, but it isn't like Putin can go up to the State Department and say "Hey, I'm here to pick up those 100 tanks - Trump said it was ok". Sooner or later the WH is going to have to confirm or deny anything Russia claims it was promised.
I don't doubt this gives Putin (even more) leverage over Trump - just that eventually these promises have to be publicly confirmed or refuted.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2990 on: July 19, 2018, 11:08:01 AM »
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/7/18/1781619/-Art-of-the-Bum-Deal-Donald-Trump-has-managed-to-increase-the-cost-of-Air-Force-One-by-1-billion

Art of the Bum Deal: Donald Trump has managed to increase the cost of Air Force One by $1 billion

Trump negotiated against himself apparently and now is paying $1 billion more than previously budgeted for Air Force One.

1.  Trump isn't paying for shit.  Just Americans.
2.  What do you expect from the guy who negotiated his businesses into bankruptcy multiple times, and has a long standing history of failing to pay people for work done?
3.  Important to note that the swamp is being drained.  Those billions would have been wasted by corrupt politicians otherwise.
4.  It's hard to think clearly enough to negotiate when Putin has has been using you as a puppet for years.  That hand up the ass gets uncomfortable after a while.  Putin isn't the sort to even take off his watch.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2991 on: July 19, 2018, 11:08:36 AM »
Well, well. Who would have thought that Russia, Trump, WikiLeaks and Cambridge Analytica are all so tightly connected. Right down to Russia sponsoring the work which created the Facebook app that harvested data for Cambridge Analytica.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/18/facebook-data-gathered-by-cambridge-analytica-accessed-from-russia-says-mp-damian-collins
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 11:10:34 AM by Fireball »

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2992 on: July 19, 2018, 11:10:36 AM »
Won't even take off the watch I say.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2993 on: July 19, 2018, 11:46:08 AM »
if nobody knows about a deal that was forged... how can it take effect? Wouldn't it have to become public (or at least known to the federal agencies) to be implamented?

You're assuming that trump was negotiating on behalf of the United States, instead of on behalf of Donald trump, and so far we have no evidence to suggest he has ever done that before.

If there was a deal struck, it was probably something like 5% of Gazprom in exchange for supporting Putin's invasion of Crimea, and another 10% if he can get the US to leave NATO.      Plus Putin can promise to rig the next election, if Trump agrees to abolish the free press.  Or he sits on the peepee tape until 2025 in exchange for Trump continuing to pretend Russia is still a superpower.  The possibilities are endless!

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2994 on: July 19, 2018, 12:07:53 PM »
if nobody knows about a deal that was forged... how can it take effect? Wouldn't it have to become public (or at least known to the federal agencies) to be implamented?

You're assuming that trump was negotiating on behalf of the United States, instead of on behalf of Donald trump, and so far we have no evidence to suggest he has ever done that before.

If there was a deal struck, it was probably something like 5% of Gazprom in exchange for supporting Putin's invasion of Crimea, and another 10% if he can get the US to leave NATO.      Plus Putin can promise to rig the next election, if Trump agrees to abolish the free press.  Or he sits on the peepee tape until 2025 in exchange for Trump continuing to pretend Russia is still a superpower.  The possibilities are endless!


I thought he's already got 20% of Rosneft, minus the 1% handling fee for laundering it through the Caribbean.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2995 on: July 19, 2018, 12:15:21 PM »
None of this really matters. As long as we get's to keep our guns who gives a fuck what Trump does? Amirite???

anisotropy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2996 on: July 19, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »
Funny thing is the Progressives are just as responsible in electing Trump as voters who actually voted for him. Recall some of the more "lively" debates on this forum. The Trump Show thus far and those issues share a common root: Post modernism.

A large group of "people" willingly gave up on facts in the name of tolerance. Tolerate all except intolerance right? Do these un-learned individuals (who also happen to think they are not stupid) even know what Popper originally said?

"But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument.Ē   - Karl Popper

Popperís definition of intolerance was not hate speech and it was not even being an a-hole. An act of intolerance was originally meant to be as simple as being irrational and refusing to be open to arguments.  These days, however, most people equate intolerance to hate speech and being an a-hole; thus the people in power focus on suppressing such behaviors, leaving the originally defined form of intolerance to thrive in our society.

This misguided post-modern view of intolerance believes that each person is permitted to decide for himself with complete disregard to how the physical world operates, as if there is no objective truth, only narratives and perspectives. In short, we allowed people to have their own alternative realities, to freely believe whatever they want to believe in, refuting any rational arguments that may say otherwise.

When we abandon critical thinking in favor of inclusiveness or, as they say in China, ďa harmonious societyĒ, often we fall into the trap of neutrality and become afraid of rational and intelligent engagement. We become unwilling to be challenged by contrary opinions or even consider them, no matter how overwhelmingly compelling the evidences are.

The absence of critical thinking and intellectual rigor fuels the doxastic nature of delusion, a systematic rejection of reality in favor of a fantasy world based on our own narratives. Intolerance breeds intolerance in a self-sustaining feedback loop. Ironically, it is observed tolerance in modern societies also breeds intolerance, likely because we operate under a misconstrued definition of intolerance.

Tolerance of refuting rational argument and denouncing all argument leads to frustrations, misunderstandings, and contempt; this in turn breeds division and mistrust, until, the delusions are manifested as actions and we arrive at full on intolerance that threatens the security of the society. Once we get to this stage, tolerance is always supplanted by intolerance and only reinstated after much bloodshed.

Trump was not elected on November 8th, 2016; he was elected the day when we first gave up facts and truth for tolerance, inclusiveness, and "social justice". Crime and Punishment has come full cycle. Fight for what's true, not for what is "politically correct", no matter the cost.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2998 on: July 19, 2018, 12:45:46 PM »
I reject out of hand that someone who opposed Trump is just as responsible for his election as someone who voted for Trump.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2999 on: July 19, 2018, 12:49:39 PM »