Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 343947 times)

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2900 on: July 17, 2018, 03:08:39 PM »
And David Duke's take on Helsinki was expectedly crazy and anti-Semitic:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397371-david-duke-praises-trump-for-putin-press-conference

It is a strange time to have a former GW of the KKK shouting bravo about a former operative for the KGB.

MNBen

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2901 on: July 17, 2018, 03:14:39 PM »
Well, today I was told by a Trump supporter that all the news is fake and to come back when I start listening to Sean Hannity.
Sooo...yeah.

After yesterday's events in Helsinki, I admit I had to turn to FoxNews to see if even they could find a way to spin this one.  I stumbled across the Hannity interview and was absolutely shocked by so many things.  I mean I've heard Hannity pushes the agenda, but I've never watched.   It honestly amazed me!

Interview:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfS2n21Cnpo


bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3076
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2902 on: July 17, 2018, 03:17:22 PM »

From an article in the NYT
Quote
“My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it’s Russia,” Mr. Trump said, referring to the director of national intelligence, Dan Coats. “I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia. I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

On Tuesday, Mr. Trump said, “In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word ‘would’ instead of ‘wouldn’t.’”

To be clear, the full quote that Trump says he *really* wanted to say was:
"I will say this: I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be, but I really do want to see the server. But I have -- I have confidence in both parties. I really believe that this will probably go on for a while, but I don't think it can go on without finding out what happened to the server. What happened to the servers of the Pakistani gentleman that worked on the DNC? Where are those servers? They're missing. Where are they? What happened to Hillary Clinton's emails? Thirty-three thousand emails gone -- just gone. I think, in Russia, they wouldn't be gone so easily. I think it's a disgrace that we can't get Hillary Clinton's 33,000 emails. "

This ignores the follow up "confidence in both parties" and then a redirect to talking about Hillary's emails. And did we really forget that Trump very publicly and specifically called out to the Russians to find those 33,000 emails? Or that he has been discounting the intelligence assessments for months?

Sorry, but this still just doesn't pass the sniff test as being okay or above board.

BUTTERY MAILSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

Dayam. Trump is a farce of himself.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2903 on: July 17, 2018, 03:25:04 PM »
Maybe maybe not, but I was responding to Sol’s post basically accusing me of “hating faggots.”

It wasn't meant as a personal attack, but I can see why it felt that way.  I was interpreting your comment to mean that you don't care about trump licking Putin's boots as long as the supreme court leans far right, and that you want the court to lean far right because of social issues (e.g. abortion, gay marriage, gun violence, Citizens United, immigration, sticking it to liberals, etc.).

That's a problem, in my book.  If Roe v Wade is a voter's only concern, and it overrides the concerns with installing a Russian puppet in the presidency, then that voter has absolutely sold out America.  Ditto if it's gays or guns or brown people or whatever else.  America, first and foremost, has always stood for democracy.  If you are willing to trade away the idea of democracy for any other issue, then you're anti-American.

What I got out of Chris's comments were that he'll gladly accept Trump and whatever shit storm he brings so he can keep his guns. He didn't directly say he hates gay people, but he doesn't give a shit about what happens to them because of guns.

Let me know when Trump opposes something blatantly anti-gay so I can oppose it.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-doj-fired-being-gay-lgbt-issues-jeff-sessions-673398?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Trump rescinded federal bathroom protections for trans-gendered students immediately after taking office.  (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?_r=0)

Trump stopped data collection on LGBTQ seniors, preventing government agencies from seeing how policy descisions will impact them.  (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-questions-elderly-survey-n735741).  He also stopped collecting LGBTQ data with the national census:  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/us-census-lgbt-americans_us_58db3894e4b0cb23e65c6cd9.

Trump has staffed his administration with people who are blatently anti-gay:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/12/15/trump-cabinet-who-who-homophobia/9UDr8MnXIQAxjO369qzT0J/story.html
https://mic.com/articles/31809/ben-carson-compares-homosexuality-to-bestiality-and-pedophilia#.p9YOKx0X0
https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-hrc-report-details-jeff-sessions-alarming-anti-lgbtq-record
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/mike-pence-religious-freedom-law-indiana_us_57c839b9e4b0a22de09446d8

The white house took the time to photoshop Luxembourg's gay first husband out of a picture of spouses of world leaders: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/white-house-accused-homophobia-luxembourg-pms-husband-omitted/

this list can go on, and on.  Were you being facetious with your request Chris, or are you really this uninformed?

Facetious of course. Who gives a fuck what happens to the gays so long as "I gets to keep mah guns!!!!" 

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4951

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2905 on: July 17, 2018, 03:43:12 PM »
I found this today.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6TECKWWPVI
I'm beginning to think that FAKE is an acronym:
Fully
Accurate
Knowledgeable
Explanation

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4951
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2906 on: July 17, 2018, 03:43:47 PM »
I found this today.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6TECKWWPVI
I'm beginning to think that FAKE is an acronym:
Fully
Accurate
Knowledgeable
Explanation

I might have to steal that.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8480
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2907 on: July 17, 2018, 03:46:24 PM »
Were you being facetious with your request Chris, or are you really this uninformed?

I'm guessing genuinely uninformed.  Fox doesn't cover these stories.

Part of the strategy for maintaining electoral majorities is remaining sufficiently amorphous in your policy positions that you don't alienate too many people who would otherwise oppose your bad ideas.  Trump has actively attacked gay rights on the policy level while mostly being silent on the Twitter level, so I'm guessing lots of people are just unaware. 

The presidents Twitter feed is basically their only source of news, in some cases, so Helsinki was a smashing success, Hillary's emails will take your guns to benghazi, his tax returns are totally clean, and there was no collusion.  And he had no opinions about gays, apparently.  Anything that doesn't come from trump himself is fake news.

I'm beginning to think objective reality was always s farce anyway.

So, Sol, I've been thinking those of us who trained in the sciences were really duped, huh?  There's no objective reality after all; why did we even bother when we could just pull facts out of our asses and it would be just as good?  We should just start making shit up and publishing it! That's sure a lot easier and cheaper.  And hell, maybe in new upside down world, the mouth-breathers will even start to listen to us!

...well then I'm wasting a huge amount of time and money maximizing replicates.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7216
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2908 on: July 17, 2018, 03:56:51 PM »
...well then I'm wasting a huge amount of time and money maximizing replicates.

Screw peer review, I'm just going to start repeating "many people are saying my papers are the best ever."

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2909 on: July 17, 2018, 04:06:54 PM »
...well then I'm wasting a huge amount of time and money maximizing replicates.

Screw peer review, I'm just going to start repeating "many people are saying my papers are the best ever."
the methods section gets a lot easier too:
"We used the best methods. You've never seen such methods. Just really, really great methods."

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2910 on: July 17, 2018, 04:11:19 PM »
...well then I'm wasting a huge amount of time and money maximizing replicates.

Screw peer review, I'm just going to start repeating "many people are saying my papers are the best ever."
the methods section gets a lot easier too:
"We used the best methods. You've never seen such methods. Just really, really great methods."

Right? Oh man, all my editing/review work is going to be a snap now, too!

OtherJen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2911 on: July 17, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »
...well then I'm wasting a huge amount of time and money maximizing replicates.

Screw peer review, I'm just going to start repeating "many people are saying my papers are the best ever."
the methods section gets a lot easier too:
"We used the best methods. You've never seen such methods. Just really, really great methods."

Right? Oh man, all my editing/review work is going to be a snap now, too!

Haha, you're right! I'm going to start fixing my clients' "materials and methods" sections to this. Boom. Done. Tremendous.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7216
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2912 on: July 17, 2018, 04:24:01 PM »
Haha, you're right! I'm going to start fixing my clients' "materials and methods" sections to this. Boom. Done. Tremendous.

Be sure to "grab 'em by the pussy" when you're done.

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2913 on: July 17, 2018, 04:41:47 PM »
Haha, you're right! I'm going to start fixing my clients' "materials and methods" sections to this. Boom. Done. Tremendous.

Be sure to "grab 'em by the pussy" when you're done.
And when it comes to stealing data and scooping ideas, when you're a celebrity (scientist) they just let you do it! I don't even ask, I just go ahead an publish it.

anisotropy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 577
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2914 on: July 17, 2018, 05:48:33 PM »
witch hunt

Saw it on twitter, didn't come up with it but still great.

"Its a -vich hunt."

Viktorovich
Alesksandrovich
Vyacheslavovich
Andreyevich
Vladimirovich
Sergeyevich

https://twitter.com/jasonzweigwsj/status/1017810519275769857

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 05:50:07 PM by anisotropy »

The Fat Baby G. Malenkov

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2915 on: July 17, 2018, 07:38:44 PM »
Something funny occurred to me just now.

Now I don't actually believe this. I believe that Trump is pathologically attracted to men who have traits he wishes he had himself, because he is a roiling cloud of dick anxiety stuffed in an approximately human shaped rubber costume. That explains his relationship with not only Putin but also Xi Jinping and KJU.

However...

Remember that the reason the Soviet Union collapsed was that there was a tier of bureaucrats who were powerful enough to undermine the state, but materially poor enough that they stood to benefit from the end of communism. Like, do I want to be the deputy oil minister of Kirghiz SSR, or do I want to be the COO of the state oil company in independent Kyrgyzstan, stuff like that. Well in our case instead of a bureaucrat overthrowing the state to become a rentier thug, we had, ah, a rentier thug who was given a state more or less at random. And to everyone's surprise, he finds that guy in Kyrgyzstan relatable.

The Fat Baby G. Malenkov

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2916 on: July 17, 2018, 07:43:30 PM »
Donald J. Trump, the world's most insecure man, enters the high school cafeteria. At one table sit Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, and Kim Jong Un. They're roughhousing and they have cigarettes wrapped up in the sleeve of their shirts, as a fuck you to vice principals everywhere.

At the other table, Emmanuel Macron and Justin Trudeau are playing Yugioh. Angela Merkel and Theresa May are there too, but they are visibly uncomfortable and aren't speaking to the boys or each other.

The Fat Baby G. Malenkov

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2917 on: July 17, 2018, 07:48:58 PM »
OK, third post:

The thing about Trump being attracted to men who have traits he wishes he had. That's one thing. But to go a tier beyond you must realize that Trump himself is surrounded by men with the same pathology, like Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie (RIP), except their ideal man is Donald Trump.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3311
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2918 on: July 17, 2018, 07:53:14 PM »
OK, third post:

The thing about Trump being attracted to men who have traits he wishes he had. That's one thing. But to go a tier beyond you must realize that Trump himself is surrounded by men with the same pathology, like Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie (RIP), except their ideal man is Donald Trump.

This is my only beef with your “Donald Trump is the most insecure man in the world” riff.

Because the only men more insecure than Donald Trump are the men who vote for and support Donald Trump.

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2919 on: July 17, 2018, 09:09:57 PM »
Someday, we will all look back nostalgically on the day Conway coined the phrase "alternate facts". [Wistful sigh]

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 833
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2920 on: July 17, 2018, 09:29:49 PM »
I'm mostly in news blackout but I guess the summit was a pretty big deal. I am revising up my estimate that a golden-shower tape does exist (Putin would be wise to drop it at exactly the point Trump is no longer a useful idiot, i.e. right after Trump loses re-erection).

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7216
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2921 on: July 17, 2018, 10:04:37 PM »

I am revising up my estimate that a golden-shower tape does exist

I'm not convinced.  In part because I don't think Trump would be very ashamed of it, given his long history of publicly celebrating his own sexual deviance, and partly because I just think it's unnecessary:  Putin has more than enough leverage over Trump through his documented financial support of Trump's businesses. 

The Trump family would have long since been bankrupt (again) without Russian banks controlled by oligarchs controlled by Putin.  Trump has laundered money for the Russian mob.  Trump tower had an active private server connection to Alfa Bank, the largest private bank in Russia.  Russian oligarchs hosted Trump's 2013 Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow.  Putin invested in Trump's Soho project.  Trump's national security advisor was on the payroll of RT, the Russian propaganda network.  His campaign advisor has spent a lifetime working for Russian oligarchs and is more connected to Putin than his own kids.  The Trump kids have visited Russia a total of 28 times, more than any other country outside of North America.

The entire Trump empire is built on Russian money.  He would be destitute without the investment of Russian oligarchs, who must do Putin's bidding in order to remain oligarchs.  Trump is a deeply insecure man who wants people to view him as successful, and admitting that his businesses are all a farce would be deeply hurtful to him.  If Putin has leverage over Trump, I think it's more likely to look like a loan agreement or a tax return than a pee tape.

On the other hand, we already know that Trump is susceptible to blackmail.  He has paid out multiple "settlements" to cover up his previous sexual indiscretions, as if he had any remaining sexual virtue to protect, so we know he's at least somewhat sensitive to his public image and is willing to pay to protect it.  Is it really a stretch to assume he would also offer other things, like an easing of sanctions or a bootlicking press conference, to someone who offered to expose him?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 10:24:31 PM by sol »

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 833
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2922 on: July 17, 2018, 10:17:58 PM »
All very good points, sol. I dread your convincing rationality but I still wish the crumbling edifice of the presidency had a golden-shower tape as a cherry on top! Succumbing to mere financial corruption without an added element of sexual deviance, for example, would damage American Exceptionalism too much. Where is our generation's Canuck Letter?

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Age: 186
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2923 on: July 17, 2018, 10:22:56 PM »
All of which is why he will also go to great lengths to prevent release of his tax returns... Aka the starting point for a good forensic accounting (beyond what Mueller has already done).

Kyle Schuant

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2924 on: July 17, 2018, 10:44:51 PM »
The Trump family would have long since been bankrupt (again) without Russian banks controlled by oligarchs controlled by Putin.
I think if you dig into the affairs of any wealthy person you'll find similar connections; the Bush family was famously connected to the Saudis. I think this does not indicate a treasonous association, except inasmuch as the global elite are in a very real sense above their host nation-state. Cargo ships have flags of convenience, and large companies and wealthy people increasingly do, too. It's not that Trump and Murdoch and the Bushes and Clintons are connected to other countries, they're connected to no country.

A President, Prime Minister, oil or tech company CEO feels more connections and loyalty to another like them than they do to any particular citizen of their host country of the day. This is part of the less palatable aspects of globalisation.

RetiredAt63

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9279
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2925 on: July 18, 2018, 05:54:55 AM »
Trump is declaring his #TreasonSummit took place on opposite day, apparently.

Yup, nothing to fear folks, Trump misspoke and Russia did meddle.

I expect Trump will go back to his same playbook over the next few days.  And by that I mean anytime he's forced to apologize he stews for a day or two and then makes some outrageous statement the his base cheers and makes everyone else gasp. Suddenly no one is talking about Helsinki anymore.  THe only question is: what crazy thing will he do next to get the news cycle off of him and Putin. I'm guessing he'll push the immigration issue even further. Maybe he'll order the temporary detention of anyone who appears latino as they try to go through any border crossing legitimately, citing 'national security' concerns.. .

I know Canadian citizens (born in Canada) who look Latino who already won't cross the border. Hours long detentions, threatened deportation to who knows where, not country of origin obviously since country of origin is Canada, at least one safety factor compared to Maher Arar.  And of course Canada has already been called a security concern.  Guess the US will be fine when all its allies have been alienated.  That strong American individualism and self-reliance will get to shine.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8480
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2926 on: July 18, 2018, 06:29:08 AM »
Trump is declaring his #TreasonSummit took place on opposite day, apparently.

Yup, nothing to fear folks, Trump misspoke and Russia did meddle.

I expect Trump will go back to his same playbook over the next few days.  And by that I mean anytime he's forced to apologize he stews for a day or two and then makes some outrageous statement the his base cheers and makes everyone else gasp. Suddenly no one is talking about Helsinki anymore.  THe only question is: what crazy thing will he do next to get the news cycle off of him and Putin. I'm guessing he'll push the immigration issue even further. Maybe he'll order the temporary detention of anyone who appears latino as they try to go through any border crossing legitimately, citing 'national security' concerns.. .

I know Canadian citizens (born in Canada) who look Latino who already won't cross the border. Hours long detentions, threatened deportation to who knows where, not country of origin obviously since country of origin is Canada, at least one safety factor compared to Maher Arar.  And of course Canada has already been called a security concern.  Guess the US will be fine when all its allies have been alienated.  That strong American individualism and self-reliance will get to shine.

Well step 1 has already commenced - after offering a rambling half-apology yesterday ("...I said would when i meant wouldn't... which is a double negative"...) he's back to doubling down on his performance in Helsinki being "an even greater success".
Anyone who disagrees is a "hater" and suffers from "Trump derangement syndrome"   He gives a false dichotomy - people who criticized him for supporting Putin over their own intelligence agencies prefer war.

toganet

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 206
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2927 on: July 18, 2018, 07:35:47 AM »
The Trump family would have long since been bankrupt (again) without Russian banks controlled by oligarchs controlled by Putin.
I think if you dig into the affairs of any wealthy person you'll find similar connections; the Bush family was famously connected to the Saudis. I think this does not indicate a treasonous association, except inasmuch as the global elite are in a very real sense above their host nation-state. Cargo ships have flags of convenience, and large companies and wealthy people increasingly do, too. It's not that Trump and Murdoch and the Bushes and Clintons are connected to other countries, they're connected to no country.

A President, Prime Minister, oil or tech company CEO feels more connections and loyalty to another like them than they do to any particular citizen of their host country of the day. This is part of the less palatable aspects of globalisation.

I don't disagree that this type of association is likely to be found with any ultra-wealthy family, I think it's problem no matter who's doing it.  I think it's worse with the Trumps due to the particular country they're entangled with -- but putting the wealthiest in charge always creates a risk of abuse of power.  I don't necessarily blame this on globalization, rather our particular incarnation of globalism reflects the upward vector of wealth accumulation that is an outcome of letting the wealthy and powerful run things.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3311
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2928 on: July 18, 2018, 07:38:57 AM »
Maybe maybe not, but I was responding to Sol’s post basically accusing me of “hating faggots.”

It wasn't meant as a personal attack, but I can see why it felt that way.  I was interpreting your comment to mean that you don't care about trump licking Putin's boots as long as the supreme court leans far right, and that you want the court to lean far right because of social issues (e.g. abortion, gay marriage, gun violence, Citizens United, immigration, sticking it to liberals, etc.).

That's a problem, in my book.  If Roe v Wade is a voter's only concern, and it overrides the concerns with installing a Russian puppet in the presidency, then that voter has absolutely sold out America.  Ditto if it's gays or guns or brown people or whatever else.  America, first and foremost, has always stood for democracy.  If you are willing to trade away the idea of democracy for any other issue, then you're anti-American.

What I got out of Chris's comments were that he'll gladly accept Trump and whatever shit storm he brings so he can keep his guns. He didn't directly say he hates gay people, but he doesn't give a shit about what happens to them because of guns.

Let me know when Trump opposes something blatantly anti-gay so I can oppose it.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-doj-fired-being-gay-lgbt-issues-jeff-sessions-673398?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Trump rescinded federal bathroom protections for trans-gendered students immediately after taking office.  (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?_r=0)

Trump stopped data collection on LGBTQ seniors, preventing government agencies from seeing how policy descisions will impact them.  (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-questions-elderly-survey-n735741).  He also stopped collecting LGBTQ data with the national census:  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/us-census-lgbt-americans_us_58db3894e4b0cb23e65c6cd9.

Trump has staffed his administration with people who are blatently anti-gay:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/12/15/trump-cabinet-who-who-homophobia/9UDr8MnXIQAxjO369qzT0J/story.html
https://mic.com/articles/31809/ben-carson-compares-homosexuality-to-bestiality-and-pedophilia#.p9YOKx0X0
https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-hrc-report-details-jeff-sessions-alarming-anti-lgbtq-record
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/mike-pence-religious-freedom-law-indiana_us_57c839b9e4b0a22de09446d8

The white house took the time to photoshop Luxembourg's gay first husband out of a picture of spouses of world leaders: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/white-house-accused-homophobia-luxembourg-pms-husband-omitted/

this list can go on, and on.  Were you being facetious with your request Chris, or are you really this uninformed?

*crickets*

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2929 on: July 18, 2018, 08:04:44 AM »
Maybe maybe not, but I was responding to Sol’s post basically accusing me of “hating faggots.”

It wasn't meant as a personal attack, but I can see why it felt that way.  I was interpreting your comment to mean that you don't care about trump licking Putin's boots as long as the supreme court leans far right, and that you want the court to lean far right because of social issues (e.g. abortion, gay marriage, gun violence, Citizens United, immigration, sticking it to liberals, etc.).

That's a problem, in my book.  If Roe v Wade is a voter's only concern, and it overrides the concerns with installing a Russian puppet in the presidency, then that voter has absolutely sold out America.  Ditto if it's gays or guns or brown people or whatever else.  America, first and foremost, has always stood for democracy.  If you are willing to trade away the idea of democracy for any other issue, then you're anti-American.

What I got out of Chris's comments were that he'll gladly accept Trump and whatever shit storm he brings so he can keep his guns. He didn't directly say he hates gay people, but he doesn't give a shit about what happens to them because of guns.

Let me know when Trump opposes something blatantly anti-gay so I can oppose it.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-doj-fired-being-gay-lgbt-issues-jeff-sessions-673398?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Trump rescinded federal bathroom protections for trans-gendered students immediately after taking office.  (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?_r=0)

Trump stopped data collection on LGBTQ seniors, preventing government agencies from seeing how policy descisions will impact them.  (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-questions-elderly-survey-n735741).  He also stopped collecting LGBTQ data with the national census:  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/us-census-lgbt-americans_us_58db3894e4b0cb23e65c6cd9.

Trump has staffed his administration with people who are blatently anti-gay:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/12/15/trump-cabinet-who-who-homophobia/9UDr8MnXIQAxjO369qzT0J/story.html
https://mic.com/articles/31809/ben-carson-compares-homosexuality-to-bestiality-and-pedophilia#.p9YOKx0X0
https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-hrc-report-details-jeff-sessions-alarming-anti-lgbtq-record
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/mike-pence-religious-freedom-law-indiana_us_57c839b9e4b0a22de09446d8

The white house took the time to photoshop Luxembourg's gay first husband out of a picture of spouses of world leaders: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/white-house-accused-homophobia-luxembourg-pms-husband-omitted/

this list can go on, and on.  Were you being facetious with your request Chris, or are you really this uninformed?

*crickets*

actually there is a lot more, in particular with the military, trying to remove don't ask don't tell protections, removing transgender surgeries from being covered by military insurance, and also removing protections for lgbt students in the schools.  The biggest issue, is the type of supreme court and other court judges being nominated. 
https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/1/22/16905658/trump-lgbtq-anniversary

Trump's administration's position is that it should be legal to fire someone for being gay. Seems pretty hostile to me.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 08:07:40 AM by partgypsy »

megaschnauzer

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Pensacola, FL
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2930 on: July 18, 2018, 08:05:20 AM »
All of which is why he will also go to great lengths to prevent release of his tax returns... Aka the starting point for a good forensic accounting (beyond what Mueller has already done).

i'm sorta surprised that the irs didn't get hacked and that information released to the public.

Saving4Fire

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2931 on: July 18, 2018, 08:13:37 AM »
The Trump family would have long since been bankrupt (again) without Russian banks controlled by oligarchs controlled by Putin.
I think if you dig into the affairs of any wealthy person you'll find similar connections; the Bush family was famously connected to the Saudis. I think this does not indicate a treasonous association, except inasmuch as the global elite are in a very real sense above their host nation-state. Cargo ships have flags of convenience, and large companies and wealthy people increasingly do, too. It's not that Trump and Murdoch and the Bushes and Clintons are connected to other countries, they're connected to no country.

A President, Prime Minister, oil or tech company CEO feels more connections and loyalty to another like them than they do to any particular citizen of their host country of the day. This is part of the less palatable aspects of globalisation.

I'd also add - Trump has been extremely secretive about his finances.  If he were up front about his connections it would be troubling, but less so. 


Jrr85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1208
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2932 on: July 18, 2018, 08:16:10 AM »

Trump's administration's position is that it should be legal to fire someone for being gay. Seems pretty hostile to me.
To be fair, Trump's administration didn't pass Title VII and they are in theory stuck with actually arguing over the law as it exists and not as they wish it to be. 

PathtoFIRE

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 502
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Dallas
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2933 on: July 18, 2018, 08:16:54 AM »
i'm sorta surprised that the irs didn't get hacked and that information released to the public.

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the [tax returns] that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11864
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2934 on: July 18, 2018, 08:34:44 AM »
Maybe maybe not, but I was responding to Sol’s post basically accusing me of “hating faggots.”

It wasn't meant as a personal attack, but I can see why it felt that way.  I was interpreting your comment to mean that you don't care about trump licking Putin's boots as long as the supreme court leans far right, and that you want the court to lean far right because of social issues (e.g. abortion, gay marriage, gun violence, Citizens United, immigration, sticking it to liberals, etc.).

That's a problem, in my book.  If Roe v Wade is a voter's only concern, and it overrides the concerns with installing a Russian puppet in the presidency, then that voter has absolutely sold out America.  Ditto if it's gays or guns or brown people or whatever else.  America, first and foremost, has always stood for democracy.  If you are willing to trade away the idea of democracy for any other issue, then you're anti-American.

What I got out of Chris's comments were that he'll gladly accept Trump and whatever shit storm he brings so he can keep his guns. He didn't directly say he hates gay people, but he doesn't give a shit about what happens to them because of guns.

Let me know when Trump opposes something blatantly anti-gay so I can oppose it.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-doj-fired-being-gay-lgbt-issues-jeff-sessions-673398?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Trump rescinded federal bathroom protections for trans-gendered students immediately after taking office.  (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?_r=0)

Trump stopped data collection on LGBTQ seniors, preventing government agencies from seeing how policy descisions will impact them.  (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-questions-elderly-survey-n735741).  He also stopped collecting LGBTQ data with the national census:  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/us-census-lgbt-americans_us_58db3894e4b0cb23e65c6cd9.

Trump has staffed his administration with people who are blatently anti-gay:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/12/15/trump-cabinet-who-who-homophobia/9UDr8MnXIQAxjO369qzT0J/story.html
https://mic.com/articles/31809/ben-carson-compares-homosexuality-to-bestiality-and-pedophilia#.p9YOKx0X0
https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-hrc-report-details-jeff-sessions-alarming-anti-lgbtq-record
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/mike-pence-religious-freedom-law-indiana_us_57c839b9e4b0a22de09446d8

The white house took the time to photoshop Luxembourg's gay first husband out of a picture of spouses of world leaders: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/white-house-accused-homophobia-luxembourg-pms-husband-omitted/

this list can go on, and on.  Were you being facetious with your request Chris, or are you really this uninformed?

*crickets*


Still going on and on . . .

Trumps continued attempts to prevent LGBTQ people from serving in the military:  https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/26/16034366/trump-transgender-military-ban

Trump removed all LGBTQ material from government websites after taking office:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-content-federal-websites-n711416
http://www.hrc.org/blog/trump-administration-removes-apology-for-anti-lgbtq-witch-hunts-from-state

Trump's administration sent anti-LGBTQ hate groups to the UN Commission on the Status of Women:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/advocates-fear-state-dept-weakening-commitment-lgbtq-rights-n737046

Trump jokes about how his vice president wants to hang gay people - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/23/the-danger-of-president-pence

Trump explicitly allows federal contractors to discriminate against LGBTQ workers:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/lgbtq-advocates-say-trump-s-news-executive-order-makes-them-n740301?cid=par-aff-gray

Trump fires all members of the Parental Council on HIV/AIDS -  https://www.hiv.gov/federal-response/pacha/about-pacha

Trump OKs discrimination against transgendered people in prison - http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-responds-to-rollback-of-obama-guidance-that-protects-safety-of-tran

Trump removed HUD programs for homeless LGBTQ people, and a requirement that homeless shelters post LGBTQ rights - http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-responds-to-rollback-of-obama-guidance-that-protects-safety-of-tran

More anti-gay Trump administration appointments, attempted appointments, and support:
Mark Green (who said that being transgender is a disease, and fought to deny marriage licenses to same sex couples) - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/us/politics/mark-green-army-secretary-nominee-lgbt-criticism.html?_r=0
Roger Severino - http://www.washingtonblade.com/content/files/2017/04/041017-SIGNED-Senate-Letter-to-Price-on-HHS-OCR-Director-Severino-Appointment.pdf, http://www.hrc.org/blog/trump-appoints-radical-anti-lgbtq-activist-to-lead-hhs-civil-rights-office
Jim Renne (conducted an anti-gay purge of government employees during Bush administration) - https://www.propublica.org/article/official-in-bush-era-purge-of-gay-employees-now-in-trump-administration
Jeff Mateer nominated as district court judge - https://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-calls-on-donald-trump-to-withdraw-anti-lgbtq-nominee-jeff-mateer
Roy Moore (Anti-LGBTQ, pedophile) - https://www.hrc.org/blog/roy-moore-in-the-us-senate-would-be-dangerous-for-lgbtq-alabamians
Joe Arpaio - https://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-condemns-trumps-pardon-of-anti-immigrant-racist-anti-lgbtq-joe-arpaio
Sam Brownback - https://www.hrc.org/blog/dangerous-nominee-sam-brownback-confirmed-as-ambassador-at-large-for-intern
Gordon Giampietro - http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-calls-on-trump-admin-to-withdraw-anti-lgbtq-nominee-Gordon-Giampietro
Mike Pompeo - http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-responds-to-senate-confirmation-of-anti-lgbtq-mike-pompeo
Tony Perkins -
Gary Bauer - http://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-on-appointment-of-anti-lgbtq-extremists-tony-perkins-and-gary-bauer



I'm still confused how Chris failed to notice the dozens (hundreds?) of times over the past couple years that people in and policy from the Trump administration has been blatantly anti-gay.  It's not exactly a well kept secret.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7216
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2935 on: July 18, 2018, 08:36:04 AM »
i'm sorta surprised that the irs didn't get hacked and that information released to the public.

At this point, the conspiracy theorist in me is assuming that the IRS, like congressional republicans, is actively suppressing this information because it is too damning.  They could have concrete proof of direct payments from Putin to Trump and recordings of their phone calls, and they might not release that information because of the damage it would do to America. 

I suspect this is kind of like having a teenager in your house.  Part of your job as a parent is to NOT keep records of all of the horribly embarrassing things they do, to NOT tell everyone at church about his parole officer or pregnancy scare, to help them move through this awkward phase toward becoming a functional adult.

We did it with Kennedy's sexual appetites, for example.  And Roosevelt's legs.  And Nixon's treason.  Sometimes these things are kept under wraps for a few decades.

Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2095
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2936 on: July 18, 2018, 08:50:55 AM »
I think there are those who delight in the discomfort of the people they have deemed crazy leftists, but I don't think the majority of the people described here actually want people to suffer. Many have however convinced themselves that the suffering is made up or that the ends justify the means.

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

Then there are the LGBTQ topics. I guess religion defines the conservative response to that cultural universe. But why wouldn't their religion define their response to relying on military violence to push political agendas? I'd be happy if the conservatives just left the LGBTQ folks alone. That would be a great first step. Living in a very conservative state I witness people talk out of both sides of their mouth on these topics all the time. Great person Bob is (when Bob is there) but away from Bob must.publicly.disapprove.and.ridicule.Bob.for.being.gay.

Let people be...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 08:55:53 AM by Just Joe »

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2937 on: July 18, 2018, 08:54:55 AM »
Appropros right about now

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8480
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2938 on: July 18, 2018, 09:24:47 AM »

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

...

Little about the self-proclaimed "compassionate conservatives" adds up under scrutiny.
Over and over they support serial adultery while calling themselves 'traditionally family based'.
They are openly hostile to the LGBTQ community and use a narrow interpretation of the bible as a shield.
Their  treatment towards immigrants and the poor is not even remotely compassionate nor christian.
They tend to be the most full-throated supporters of unfettered firearms, the military, the death penalty and war, never acknowledging the inherent hypocrisy therein.
Harsh penalties for first time offenders are great, but programs aimed at reintroduction of felons into society are taboo.
Crack 'addicts' with brown skin needed to be locked up on a first offense, but white 'victims' of opioid abuse need immediate support to help them 'break the cycle of addition'.
They talk about freedom and democracy but want to limit citizenship to people who just happened to be born here. They speak of 'amnesty' as if it were an evil to be stamped out and forbidden.
They talk about 'law and order' but are willing to separate peaceful and cooperative parents from their children in order to act as a 'deterrent' for others.
 They label any judge which rules in their favor a 'constitutionalist' and deride any who rules against as 'legislating from the bench'.
They talk about 'states rights' and returning power to the local governments, except when local governments are so brash as to have contrary opinions regarding environmental standards, immigration enforcement, military recruiters, affirmative action, or civil-rights protections  - in which case to hell with those 'sanctuary cities', the government must force them to capitulate.

...i could go on, but it just makes me angry.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11864
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2939 on: July 18, 2018, 09:34:46 AM »
I think there are those who delight in the discomfort of the people they have deemed crazy leftists, but I don't think the majority of the people described here actually want people to suffer. Many have however convinced themselves that the suffering is made up or that the ends justify the means.

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

It doesn't add up because your initial assumptions are wrong.  Being anti-abortion has nothing to do with protecting a fetus.  As you mentioned, anti-abortionists don't give a damn about children after they've passed through the vagina.  The argument is rooted in a desire to control/mete out punishment to women for the crime of having sex:

- The child is punishment.
- The woman deserves to be punished because she had sex (or was raped - still deserves to be punished).
- The woman is punished more (therefore it's better) when she receives no support/help with the child.

Seen through this lens, the behavior of anti-abortionists starts to make perfect sense.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3311
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2940 on: July 18, 2018, 09:39:15 AM »
And David Duke's take on Helsinki was expectedly crazy and anti-Semitic:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397371-david-duke-praises-trump-for-putin-press-conference

It is a strange time to have a former GW of the KKK shouting bravo about a former operative for the KGB.

I surprised the media even gives Duke a chance to speak publicly. I don't care what Duke thinks about shit. Still it is useful to print his opinion and Trump and thus attempt to make them appear close. I don't subscribe to the notion of most news being fake news but this headline does reflect poorly on the news agency.

Like Duke, Palin, Coulter and others like them fade into obscurity. They aren't worth the time to listen to them. They bring no worthwhile knowledge to the national conversation and only parrot for their party.

The media wants eyeballs and clicks. The best way to do that is to provoke outrage or fear. That's how we got Trump in the first place.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3076
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2941 on: July 18, 2018, 09:52:27 AM »
I think there are those who delight in the discomfort of the people they have deemed crazy leftists, but I don't think the majority of the people described here actually want people to suffer. Many have however convinced themselves that the suffering is made up or that the ends justify the means.

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

It doesn't add up because your initial assumptions are wrong.  Being anti-abortion has nothing to do with protecting a fetus.  As you mentioned, anti-abortionists don't give a damn about children after they've passed through the vagina.  The argument is rooted in a desire to control/mete out punishment to women for the crime of having sex:

- The child is punishment.
- The woman deserves to be punished because she had sex (or was raped - still deserves to be punished).
- The woman is punished more (therefore it's better) when she receives no support/help with the child.

Seen through this lens, the behavior of anti-abortionists starts to make perfect sense.

I don't think this is 100% true but it is for a lot of anti-abortion people. You can even see it in forums when someone posts, "She should keep her legs closed!"

This also explains the belief in abstinence education. "Good" girls are abstinent; "bad" girls have sex and are punished by it with a baby at age 16.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3311
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2942 on: July 18, 2018, 10:09:12 AM »
I think there are those who delight in the discomfort of the people they have deemed crazy leftists, but I don't think the majority of the people described here actually want people to suffer. Many have however convinced themselves that the suffering is made up or that the ends justify the means.

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

It doesn't add up because your initial assumptions are wrong.  Being anti-abortion has nothing to do with protecting a fetus.  As you mentioned, anti-abortionists don't give a damn about children after they've passed through the vagina.  The argument is rooted in a desire to control/mete out punishment to women for the crime of having sex:

- The child is punishment.
- The woman deserves to be punished because she had sex (or was raped - still deserves to be punished).
- The woman is punished more (therefore it's better) when she receives no support/help with the child.

Seen through this lens, the behavior of anti-abortionists starts to make perfect sense.

I don't think this is 100% true but it is for a lot of anti-abortion people. You can even see it in forums when someone posts, "She should keep her legs closed!"

This also explains the belief in abstinence education. "Good" girls are abstinent; "bad" girls have sex and are punished by it with a baby at age 16.

Almost every conversation I have with a pro-life person eventually comes down to language that amounts to this. And funnily enough, the language of abstinence never really quite gets to the part where the guy should be abstinent, too. Just the woman.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8480
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2943 on: July 18, 2018, 10:35:59 AM »

Almost every conversation I have with a pro-life person eventually comes down to language that amounts to this. And funnily enough, the language of abstinence never really quite gets to the part where the guy should be abstinent, too. Just the woman.

"boys will be boys" but "that girl is a slut".  Horrible double standard that unfortunately we perpetuate to this day.

Pre-martial sex is also one aspect where our society almost universally forgives provided it does not result in conception, but if it does the judgement on the female is far harsher than on the male, and lasts much longer. A guy who fathers a child out of wedlock but provides for that child is seen as "living up to his obligations" after a "youthful indescretion" whereas the girl is some "poor [as in: wretched] child" who must "live with her mistake.

OtherJen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2944 on: July 18, 2018, 10:36:36 AM »
I think there are those who delight in the discomfort of the people they have deemed crazy leftists, but I don't think the majority of the people described here actually want people to suffer. Many have however convinced themselves that the suffering is made up or that the ends justify the means.

As a bare minimum they would be rooting for the conservative to deny rights to LGBTQ folks and women who need an abortion. As detailed on these discussions here there are more reasons for an abortion than "got pregnant, don't want a baby."

I still get confused by the "protect the fetus! and ignore the child they become" conservative politics. If life was that sacred then wouldn't conservatives be the people who wanted the best schools for everyone, for everyone of all genders and ethnicity to prosper, and to seek peace around the world without military intervention?

Just doesn't add up. 

It doesn't add up because your initial assumptions are wrong.  Being anti-abortion has nothing to do with protecting a fetus.  As you mentioned, anti-abortionists don't give a damn about children after they've passed through the vagina.  The argument is rooted in a desire to control/mete out punishment to women for the crime of having sex:

- The child is punishment.
- The woman deserves to be punished because she had sex (or was raped - still deserves to be punished).
- The woman is punished more (therefore it's better) when she receives no support/help with the child.

Seen through this lens, the behavior of anti-abortionists starts to make perfect sense.

I don't think this is 100% true but it is for a lot of anti-abortion people. You can even see it in forums when someone posts, "She should keep her legs closed!"

This also explains the belief in abstinence education. "Good" girls are abstinent; "bad" girls have sex and are punished by it with a baby at age 16.

Almost every conversation I have with a pro-life person eventually comes down to language that amounts to this. And funnily enough, the language of abstinence never really quite gets to the part where the guy should be abstinent, too. Just the woman.

Having been heavily exposed to this type of rhetoric while growing up, this is 100% accurate. According to much of what I was taught, the woman is a temptress, the daughter of Eve; the man has no self-control and cannot be blamed for anything sexual. It is ALL on the woman. Abortion is the ONLY political issue of importance, and the ends always justify the means (i.e., you can vote to cut all food/shelter/healthcare/education services to pregnant mothers and born children with a fully clear conscience as long as you vote to outlaw abortion). This is the mindset that has gained control of the right-wing over the last 45 years.

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3588
  • Location: Avalon
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2945 on: July 18, 2018, 10:46:49 AM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.


Riiiiight.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3311
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2946 on: July 18, 2018, 10:51:03 AM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.


Riiiiight.

He has all the best words.

Too bad they aren't connected to a functioning brain.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3076
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2947 on: July 18, 2018, 10:58:30 AM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.


Riiiiight.

This is Trump's MO. When the GOP and everyone else starts criticizing him, he backs down. When the furor dies down a bit, he backpedals his backpedal. He did it with immigration, too.

Even Foxnews has moved on; it's now back to the Clinton show* ("FLASHBACK VIDEO: Monica Lewinsky scandal bursts into public view; Washington goes into media frenzy").


* Which, incidentally, is why we see so many Trump supporters practice whataboutism and keep bringing up Bill, Hillary, and Obama. They see/read it on Fox so much that they mimic it.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8480
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2948 on: July 18, 2018, 11:09:36 AM »
Back to Trump.  He has just said on the record that Russia has stopped its attacks on USA elections.


Riiiiight.

This is Trump's MO. When the GOP and everyone else starts criticizing him, he backs down. When the furor dies down a bit, he backpedals his backpedal. He did it with immigration, too.

Even Foxnews has moved on; it's now back to the Clinton show* ("FLASHBACK VIDEO: Monica Lewinsky scandal bursts into public view; Washington goes into media frenzy").


* Which, incidentally, is why we see so many Trump supporters practice whataboutism and keep bringing up Bill, Hillary, and Obama. They see/read it on Fox so much that they mimic it.
That was Trump's MO with the white-pride parades in Virginia, too.  Remember when he declared there were "good people on both sides" of a nazi march?  Then even his supporters criticized him, so he backed down - for about a day.

Within the last 12 hours Trump has said that 'intelligent people' view his conference positively, that people who criticize him are suffering 'Trump derangement syndrome', that attacks on our election could have come "from other people [outside Russia]", that Russia would no longer meddle, and that relations between the US and Russia were at their lowest point ever, but were now much better (hello, Cold War?)

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2949 on: July 18, 2018, 11:43:11 AM »
I'm still confused how Chris failed to notice the dozens (hundreds?) of times over the past couple years that people in and policy from the Trump administration has been blatantly anti-gay.  It's not exactly a well kept secret.