Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 373123 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2550 on: July 02, 2018, 10:50:46 AM »
Hey check this out.   North Korea maybe isn't disarming after all.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-us-has-plan-to-dismantle-north-koreas-nuclear-program-within-a-year/

Quote
U.S. intelligence is not certain how many nuclear warheads North Korea has. The Defence Intelligence Agency is at the high end with an estimate of about 50, but all the agencies believe Pyongyang is concealing an unknown number, especially smaller tactical ones, in caves and other underground facilities around the country.

North Korea agreed at the summit to “work toward denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” but the joint statement signed by North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and U.S. President Donald Trump on June 12 gave no details on how or when Pyongyang might surrender its nuclear weapons.

U.S. intelligence agencies believe North Korea has increased production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months and may try to hide these while seeking concessions in nuclear talks with the United States, NBC News quoted U.S. officials as saying on Friday.

The Washington Post reported on Saturday that U.S. intelligence officials have concluded that North Korea does not intend to fully give up its nuclear arsenal and is considering ways to hide the number of weapons it has. It also reported Pyongyang has secret production facilities, according to the latest evidence they have.

Yeah.  They didn't agree to disarm, why would anyone have believed they were going to?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2551 on: July 02, 2018, 11:09:09 AM »
Hey check this out.   North Korea maybe isn't disarming after all.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-us-has-plan-to-dismantle-north-koreas-nuclear-program-within-a-year/

Quote
U.S. intelligence is not certain how many nuclear warheads North Korea has. The Defence Intelligence Agency is at the high end with an estimate of about 50, but all the agencies believe Pyongyang is concealing an unknown number, especially smaller tactical ones, in caves and other underground facilities around the country.

North Korea agreed at the summit to “work toward denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” but the joint statement signed by North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and U.S. President Donald Trump on June 12 gave no details on how or when Pyongyang might surrender its nuclear weapons.

U.S. intelligence agencies believe North Korea has increased production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months and may try to hide these while seeking concessions in nuclear talks with the United States, NBC News quoted U.S. officials as saying on Friday.

The Washington Post reported on Saturday that U.S. intelligence officials have concluded that North Korea does not intend to fully give up its nuclear arsenal and is considering ways to hide the number of weapons it has. It also reported Pyongyang has secret production facilities, according to the latest evidence they have.

Yeah.  They didn't agree to disarm, why would anyone have believed they were going to?

Shocked! Shocked, I say! Who could have possibly forseen this behavior from Kim?

But seriously, given that Bolton has Trump's ear, let's hope this isn't used as a premise for kinetic retaliation.

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2552 on: July 02, 2018, 11:22:10 AM »
Just out of curiosity, since you describe yourself as an originalist, what do you think of the citizen's united ruling? Not only do corporations have rights in order to enforce contracts, etc, it expands corporations the right to "free speech". To me this does not seem originalist, in fact it is quite radical. The constitution doesn't refer to corporations as individuals or give them rights as individuals.

Not sure of the legal reasoning adopted by the majority (Corporations are people for 1st Amend purposes).  To allow the government to restrict spending by third parties, however, would be problematic.  Not sure how you would do this and not run afoul of the First Amendment.  Could the Government, for example, prohibit Michael Moore from airing or advertising an anti-Bush (or Trump) movie before an election?  This was in fact an issue underlying the decision.  Excerpt from Wikipedia below.

The media is the only type of company specifically given explicit rights in the Constitution. They didn't mention oil and gas corporations, or real estate companies, but they did give newspapers protected rights.

If the Framers wanted tea importers, or carpenters, or teamsters to have explicit rights, they would've granted them. They didn't. The Framers also recognized that companies can be regulated for the welfare of society. One of them, Thomas Jefferson, was even concerned about the "aristocracy of our moneyed corporations." Corporate charters also had an expiration date.

And this is why originalism is bullshit. It's wrapped in "guidelines" and the "Rule of Law and consistency" but it's more of the same. It's newspeak for pro-corporate, pro-Conservative, opinions meant to stem the tide of a changing and scary world. It has as many personal biases as the straw-man argument of "those activist judges!" but the originalist advocates refuse to see it.

Quote from: James Madison
The power of all corporations ought to be limited

So you would be OK with the government prohibiting Michael Moore from airing an anti-Trump movie in advance of the 2020 election?

Bolded above.

If you give government the power to determine which corporations are properly considered the press and which ones aren't, you are effectively ending freedom of the press.

No, you're not. There was press back in the 1770s and somehow the Framers managed it. Are you an originalist or not?

Well the constitution wasn't in place until 1789, so I'm not sure what relevance the 1770's has unless it demonstrates something the founders were particularly concerned about. 

I'm not aware of states in the U.S. after the constitution was ratified requiring that freedom of the press be subject to government determining that you in fact belong to "the press" or being a member of "the press" or whatever.  But certainly at that time, the bill of rights just limited the federal government, so maybe they did? 

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2553 on: July 02, 2018, 11:40:56 AM »
The courts have ruled repeatedly that -
Courts can be wrong.

I am indifferent to the law, particularly when it comes to laws of countries other than my own. I am more concerned about what is right. And in this, your courts are wrong. When the law is wrong, bad things happen eventually.

Just ask Dredd Scott. And ask the 600,000 dead just a few years after his case.

You can't say you have freedom of speech, but then say, "but you can't join up with anybody else to pay to distribute your speech".

It's a hollow right at that point.  And again, that's ignoring the issue with granting government the authority to determine which corporations are "press" and/or which publications by the "press" are issue or candidate advocacy that can be subject to spending limitations.

Do you think that "freedom of speech" includes the right to say something as loudly as you want?  I'm just curious because I've always thought that money does not buy speech per se, it buys volume.
  I think freedom of speech means the government can't put restrictions in place with the aim of limiting the reach of your message.  So they can put into place public nuisance laws stopping people from blaring sounds above a certain decibel.  They can't just say you can't blare out political speech.  And they definitely can't say, "if you're rich enough to pay for the megaphone yourself, you can use it, but if you have to pool your resources with other people to afford it, you are prohibited from using it."

Also, who do you think should determine what corporations fall under the "press" designation?  It seems like if you let the corporations self-label then they would all just categorize themselves as the "press".
  I think the current precedent is correct, that press is more or less an activity, and the government can't dictate who can take part of it and who can't. 

shenlong55

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2554 on: July 02, 2018, 12:15:53 PM »


The courts have ruled repeatedly that -
Courts can be wrong.

I am indifferent to the law, particularly when it comes to laws of countries other than my own. I am more concerned about what is right. And in this, your courts are wrong. When the law is wrong, bad things happen eventually.

Just ask Dredd Scott. And ask the 600,000 dead just a few years after his case.

You can't say you have freedom of speech, but then say, "but you can't join up with anybody else to pay to distribute your speech".

It's a hollow right at that point.  And again, that's ignoring the issue with granting government the authority to determine which corporations are "press" and/or which publications by the "press" are issue or candidate advocacy that can be subject to spending limitations.

Do you think that "freedom of speech" includes the right to say something as loudly as you want?  I'm just curious because I've always thought that money does not buy speech per se, it buys volume.
  I think freedom of speech means the government can't put restrictions in place with the aim of limiting the reach of your message.  So they can put into place public nuisance laws stopping people from blaring sounds above a certain decibel.  They can't just say you can't blare out political speech.  And they definitely can't say, "if you're rich enough to pay for the megaphone yourself, you can use it, but if you have to pool your resources with other people to afford it, you are prohibited from using it."

Definitely not disagreeing with this, I'm just not sure that the 1st amendment necessarily means that the government can't put limitations on the volume/reach.

Also, who do you think should determine what corporations fall under the "press" designation?  It seems like if you let the corporations self-label then they would all just categorize themselves as the "press".
  I think the current precedent is correct, that press is more or less an activity, and the government can't dictate who can take part of it and who can't.

How would you define the activity that constitutes "the press" then?

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Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2555 on: July 02, 2018, 12:18:10 PM »
The courts have ruled repeatedly that -
Courts can be wrong.

I am indifferent to the law, particularly when it comes to laws of countries other than my own. I am more concerned about what is right. And in this, your courts are wrong. When the law is wrong, bad things happen eventually.

Just ask Dredd Scott. And ask the 600,000 dead just a few years after his case.

You can't say you have freedom of speech, but then say, "but you can't join up with anybody else to pay to distribute your speech".

It's a hollow right at that point.  And again, that's ignoring the issue with granting government the authority to determine which corporations are "press" and/or which publications by the "press" are issue or candidate advocacy that can be subject to spending limitations.

Do you think that "freedom of speech" includes the right to say something as loudly as you want?  I'm just curious because I've always thought that money does not buy speech per se, it buys volume.
  I think freedom of speech means the government can't put restrictions in place with the aim of limiting the reach of your message.  So they can put into place public nuisance laws stopping people from blaring sounds above a certain decibel.  They can't just say you can't blare out political speech.  And they definitely can't say, "if you're rich enough to pay for the megaphone yourself, you can use it, but if you have to pool your resources with other people to afford it, you are prohibited from using it."

Also, who do you think should determine what corporations fall under the "press" designation?  It seems like if you let the corporations self-label then they would all just categorize themselves as the "press".
  I think the current precedent is correct, that press is more or less an activity, and the government can't dictate who can take part of it and who can't.

No one has argued against nonprofit advocacy groups having the right to free speech. This is what you are describing, yes?

Jrr85

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2556 on: July 02, 2018, 12:26:49 PM »
The courts have ruled repeatedly that -
Courts can be wrong.

I am indifferent to the law, particularly when it comes to laws of countries other than my own. I am more concerned about what is right. And in this, your courts are wrong. When the law is wrong, bad things happen eventually.

Just ask Dredd Scott. And ask the 600,000 dead just a few years after his case.

You can't say you have freedom of speech, but then say, "but you can't join up with anybody else to pay to distribute your speech".

It's a hollow right at that point.  And again, that's ignoring the issue with granting government the authority to determine which corporations are "press" and/or which publications by the "press" are issue or candidate advocacy that can be subject to spending limitations.

Do you think that "freedom of speech" includes the right to say something as loudly as you want?  I'm just curious because I've always thought that money does not buy speech per se, it buys volume.
  I think freedom of speech means the government can't put restrictions in place with the aim of limiting the reach of your message.  So they can put into place public nuisance laws stopping people from blaring sounds above a certain decibel.  They can't just say you can't blare out political speech.  And they definitely can't say, "if you're rich enough to pay for the megaphone yourself, you can use it, but if you have to pool your resources with other people to afford it, you are prohibited from using it."

Also, who do you think should determine what corporations fall under the "press" designation?  It seems like if you let the corporations self-label then they would all just categorize themselves as the "press".
  I think the current precedent is correct, that press is more or less an activity, and the government can't dictate who can take part of it and who can't.

No one has argued against nonprofit advocacy groups having the right to free speech. This is what you are describing, yes?

A lot of people have argued against it.  Citizen's united was about a non-profit advocacy group wanting to air a movie critical of Hillary during primary season. 

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2557 on: July 02, 2018, 01:31:16 PM »
The courts have ruled repeatedly that -
Courts can be wrong.

I am indifferent to the law, particularly when it comes to laws of countries other than my own. I am more concerned about what is right. And in this, your courts are wrong. When the law is wrong, bad things happen eventually.

Just ask Dredd Scott. And ask the 600,000 dead just a few years after his case.

You can't say you have freedom of speech, but then say, "but you can't join up with anybody else to pay to distribute your speech".

It's a hollow right at that point.  And again, that's ignoring the issue with granting government the authority to determine which corporations are "press" and/or which publications by the "press" are issue or candidate advocacy that can be subject to spending limitations.

Do you think that "freedom of speech" includes the right to say something as loudly as you want?  I'm just curious because I've always thought that money does not buy speech per se, it buys volume.
  I think freedom of speech means the government can't put restrictions in place with the aim of limiting the reach of your message.  So they can put into place public nuisance laws stopping people from blaring sounds above a certain decibel.  They can't just say you can't blare out political speech.  And they definitely can't say, "if you're rich enough to pay for the megaphone yourself, you can use it, but if you have to pool your resources with other people to afford it, you are prohibited from using it."

Also, who do you think should determine what corporations fall under the "press" designation?  It seems like if you let the corporations self-label then they would all just categorize themselves as the "press".
  I think the current precedent is correct, that press is more or less an activity, and the government can't dictate who can take part of it and who can't.

No one has argued against nonprofit advocacy groups having the right to free speech. This is what you are describing, yes?

A lot of people have argued against it.  Citizen's united was about a non-profit advocacy group wanting to air a movie critical of Hillary during primary season.

I was referring to people within this thread, but looking back they have argued against the citizens united vs FEC decision, my mistake.

I don't know enough about the case to know why the ruling applied to for profit corporations in addition to nonprofit. Perhaps it would serve little purpose to make this distinction? The loopholes are plentiful and the technicalities are beyond me.


MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2558 on: July 02, 2018, 02:28:27 PM »
Hey check this out.   North Korea maybe isn't disarming after all.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-us-has-plan-to-dismantle-north-koreas-nuclear-program-within-a-year/

Quote
U.S. intelligence is not certain how many nuclear warheads North Korea has. The Defence Intelligence Agency is at the high end with an estimate of about 50, but all the agencies believe Pyongyang is concealing an unknown number, especially smaller tactical ones, in caves and other underground facilities around the country.

North Korea agreed at the summit to “work toward denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” but the joint statement signed by North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and U.S. President Donald Trump on June 12 gave no details on how or when Pyongyang might surrender its nuclear weapons.

U.S. intelligence agencies believe North Korea has increased production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months and may try to hide these while seeking concessions in nuclear talks with the United States, NBC News quoted U.S. officials as saying on Friday.

The Washington Post reported on Saturday that U.S. intelligence officials have concluded that North Korea does not intend to fully give up its nuclear arsenal and is considering ways to hide the number of weapons it has. It also reported Pyongyang has secret production facilities, according to the latest evidence they have.

Yeah.  They didn't agree to disarm, why would anyone have believed they were going to?

Trump's meeting with Kim was just a political stunt to get his base all riled up. They can say (and already have) "hey look Trump is doing a better job than Obama with NK." Umm no he isn't. The con man is getting conned himself.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2559 on: July 02, 2018, 02:43:39 PM »
Trump's meeting with Kim was just a political stunt to get his base all riled up. They can say (and already have) "hey look Trump is doing a better job than Obama with NK." Umm no he isn't. The con man is getting conned himself.

For thirty years, the US policy on North Korea has been to a) prevent them from developing nuclear weapons technology, and b) do not recognize them as a global superpower by meeting with them face to face.

Trump failed on a), so he necessarily had to fail on b).  The fact that we're even having to negotiate with North Korea is a sign of failure.  They were just a ridiculously backwards despot kingdom as little as three years ago, full of starving peasants who worshipped their obese "divine" ruler.  Suddenly they command the attention and respect of the greatest and most powerful nation on earth.  We failed miserably, somewhere in that transition.

The Kims got everything they wanted out of this failure.  The US got nothing.  I fail to see how anyone here can tout this as a "success", but then again this has been a recurring theme of this presidency, for me.

TempusFugit

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2560 on: July 02, 2018, 05:08:11 PM »
Trump's meeting with Kim was just a political stunt to get his base all riled up. They can say (and already have) "hey look Trump is doing a better job than Obama with NK." Umm no he isn't. The con man is getting conned himself.

For thirty years, the US policy on North Korea has been to a) prevent them from developing nuclear weapons technology, and b) do not recognize them as a global superpower by meeting with them face to face.

Trump failed on a), so he necessarily had to fail on b).  The fact that we're even having to negotiate with North Korea is a sign of failure.  They were just a ridiculously backwards despot kingdom as little as three years ago, full of starving peasants who worshipped their obese "divine" ruler.  Suddenly they command the attention and respect of the greatest and most powerful nation on earth.  We failed miserably, somewhere in that transition.

The Kims got everything they wanted out of this failure.  The US got nothing.  I fail to see how anyone here can tout this as a "success", but then again this has been a recurring theme of this presidency, for me.

I don't really disagree with you on substance, but I do think that there is plenty of blame to go around for the current situation.  At least 4 presidents share some of this blame.   The question has always been are we willing to wage war to stop NK from having nuclear tipped ICBMs?   

The hope of course is that enough incremental pressure would lead to collapse of the regime or capitulation on the issue, but that kind of pressure, especially with China as their protector, is risky.  I think we were getting closer to that pressure point before we seem to have lost the nerve, but smarter people than me have been trying to solve this issue for decades. 

One interesting possibility (though very risky to hang our hopes on it) is that the great menace of NK artillery devastating Soul within hours is a bluff.  Fact is, the range from the DMZ to Soul is really outside of the operational range of those guns. To make that range even possible, the NKs modified the guns in a manner that makes them unreliable, dangerous to the crews, and much more likely to be out of commission after a few rounds. 

Basically, they reduced the explosive payload of the shells and increased the explosive charge to launch the projectile.  It isn't some kind of super gun, it's just a fairly regular piece of equipment that no other military in the world would modify in that way because of all the drawbacks. 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2561 on: July 02, 2018, 11:18:50 PM »
Americans now have a government that is doing everything possible to work for themselves.  Pruitt is just the worst example.

When will fellow citizens wake up to questionable actions like 'one-on-one' meetings?  If you have nothing to hide, if you can get some consensus on a complicated relationship, then why try to be a dictator?  We live in a democracy and all of these big stick moves are eroding both faith and trust in our ability to hold leadership accountable.  Americans have been incredibly fortunate to enjoy respect and status, but this is not endemic.  There were many impressive things that we had done in the past and had continued to do, up until this latest dive.  Having an unpredictable geopolitical regime is a fast way to get you allies to back away from unwavering support - other than slapping tariffs on them and threatening them further!

Oh yeah, which lead to this latest gem
Quote
Trump threatens WTO, saying the U.S. will respond if it isn't 'treating us 'properly' – after White House aides who drafted trade bill fail to realize they called it the FART Act

marty998

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2562 on: July 03, 2018, 03:05:21 AM »

Oh yeah, which lead to this latest gem
Quote
Trump threatens WTO, saying the U.S. will respond if it isn't 'treating us 'properly' – after White House aides who drafted trade bill fail to realize they called it the FART Act

Smells like a bad idea.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2563 on: July 03, 2018, 06:04:24 PM »
The Kims got everything they wanted out of this failure.  The US got nothing.  I fail to see how anyone here can tout this as a "success", but then again this has been a recurring theme of this presidency, for me.
The US got to not have yet another losing foreign war creating millions of refugees and spreading conflict to neighbouring states.

Sometimes the threshold of success is simply, "don't fuck up."

Zamboni

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2564 on: July 03, 2018, 11:26:00 PM »
I couldn't decide where to put this, so here it is:

Yesterday I bought something very large that came in a very large (about the size of a clothes washing machine) sturdy cardboard box.

I thought to myself "Wow, this box would make a perfect playhouse for some smaller children." Having many fond memories of making and decorating cardboard box playhouses for myself as a child and then for my own children (now much too bit to enjoy this type of thing), I set out to deliver the box to children of the right age.

The closest children I remember seeing of the right size for this were down at the end of the street in an apartment complex. They often ride bikes up and down the street. So I went to the complex to deliver it to the first batch of kids I saw. The first child I saw, who was on a second story breezeway (I was on the ground) ran to get her siblings, who all looked excited, and then Mom appeared in the doorway. I asked if it was okay for me to leave the very big box there for her children to play . . . she said "No" two or three times, but she looked terrified of me. I was still on the ground a floor down from her and she was on a second story balcony looking absolutely scared out of her wits.

This was not at all what I was expecting. Trust me, there is nothing about my appearance that should invoke fear. I was wearing a pink sweater, jeans, and sandals . . . definitely not my most terrifying attire. Unless you are an immigrant, I guess, and especially an immigrant with small children. Wow. Confused, I pulled the box down to the end of the courtyard and just left it there under a tree. I drive right by there daily, and when I drove back by on my way home a couple of hours later it was gone . . . I hope the kids got it. 

The result of a full trump Presidency?

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2565 on: July 04, 2018, 12:34:40 AM »
The Kims got everything they wanted out of this failure.  The US got nothing.  I fail to see how anyone here can tout this as a "success", but then again this has been a recurring theme of this presidency, for me.
The US got to not have yet another losing foreign war creating millions of refugees and spreading conflict to neighbouring states.

Which they could have got without giving a propaganda victory to the North Koreans, without stopping joint military exercises with allies without telling them first and at Putin's request, and without putting a gigantic hole in the sanctions regime which was the only lever on the North Korean regime.

Sometimes the threshold of success is simply, "don't fuck up."

But that doesn't apply here.

Now watch Trump fuck up Nato and give the Crimea away.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2566 on: July 04, 2018, 05:58:34 AM »
The Kims got everything they wanted out of this failure.  The US got nothing.  I fail to see how anyone here can tout this as a "success", but then again this has been a recurring theme of this presidency, for me.
The US got to not have yet another losing foreign war creating millions of refugees and spreading conflict to neighbouring states.

Sometimes the threshold of success is simply, "don't fuck up."

Umm no, simple status quo would have given us no war. It's been that way for decades, If we were on the brink of war, it's because these two clowns can't keep their egos in check. They are a lot alike.

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2567 on: July 04, 2018, 05:59:28 AM »
I couldn't decide where to put this, so here it is:

Yesterday I bought something very large that came in a very large (about the size of a clothes washing machine) sturdy cardboard box.

I thought to myself "Wow, this box would make a perfect playhouse for some smaller children." Having many fond memories of making and decorating cardboard box playhouses for myself as a child and then for my own children (now much too bit to enjoy this type of thing), I set out to deliver the box to children of the right age.

The closest children I remember seeing of the right size for this were down at the end of the street in an apartment complex. They often ride bikes up and down the street. So I went to the complex to deliver it to the first batch of kids I saw. The first child I saw, who was on a second story breezeway (I was on the ground) ran to get her siblings, who all looked excited, and then Mom appeared in the doorway. I asked if it was okay for me to leave the very big box there for her children to play . . . she said "No" two or three times, but she looked terrified of me. I was still on the ground a floor down from her and she was on a second story balcony looking absolutely scared out of her wits.

This was not at all what I was expecting. Trust me, there is nothing about my appearance that should invoke fear. I was wearing a pink sweater, jeans, and sandals . . . definitely not my most terrifying attire. Unless you are an immigrant, I guess, and especially an immigrant with small children. Wow. Confused, I pulled the box down to the end of the courtyard and just left it there under a tree. I drive right by there daily, and when I drove back by on my way home a couple of hours later it was gone . . . I hope the kids got it. 

The result of a full trump Presidency?

Zamboni, all we hear about are child molesters in the news and anyone with a child would probably first think you were trying to entice a kid with a playhouse to abduct them. Maybe just forget about handing out big boxes to strangers. Call some friends who have kids or cut the box up and put it in the dumpster.

the_fixer

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2568 on: July 04, 2018, 09:01:25 AM »
Roadrunner... now I am picturing Zamboni as a middle age white man with a few strands of hair, a pink sweater being stretched in the middle by a beer belly getting out of a white cargo van with free candy written on the side of it dragging his free box to entice the kiddos

Lol thanks



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« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 09:04:03 AM by the_fixer »

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2569 on: July 04, 2018, 09:10:42 AM »
Roadrunner... now I am picturing Zamboni as a middle age white man with a few strands of hair, a pink sweater being stretched in the middle by a beer belly getting out of a white cargo van with free candy written on the side of it dragging his free box to entice the kiddos

Lol thanks



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You made me laugh at your description! LOL!

Zamboni

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2570 on: July 05, 2018, 12:12:49 AM »
Yeah . . . guess I should have left the white van at home . . . is that the dead giveaway?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2571 on: July 05, 2018, 01:21:59 AM »
Trying to get back on track from our diversion (with a screen name like Zamboni, he must have a stand-alone mustache and Wayfarer Ray-bans, IMHO) - Trump will probably run up a hellalotta debt with his attempt to be a real President.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/dna-testing-migrant-family-separation/index.html.  I'm not even going to scratch the surface on him not really using the White House as a residence, flying to his properties and rallies at whim with a huge secret service entourage, playing golf on our dime, and failing to demand fiscal discipline from his cabinet, staff, or anyone really.  But yes, mostly his policies will cost Americans a fortune - favoring companies and the wealthy with tax cuts, killing the working class by gutting ObamaCare, and starting trade wars, withdrawal from the Paris Accord, ripping up trade agreements, withdrawal from internationally agreed sanctions to prevent Iran and North Korea nuclear programs (straining our allies ability to sanction effectively)...  The list goes on and on with America being left adrift economically...

caracarn

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2572 on: July 05, 2018, 06:58:32 AM »
Yeah . . . guess I should have left the white van at home . . . is that the dead giveaway?
Yes..... use the black van instead.  Much less menacing.

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2573 on: July 05, 2018, 07:41:44 AM »
Trying to get back on track from our diversion (with a screen name like Zamboni, he must have a stand-alone mustache and Wayfarer Ray-bans, IMHO) - Trump will probably run up a hellalotta debt with his attempt to be a real President.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/dna-testing-migrant-family-separation/index.html.  I'm not even going to scratch the surface on him not really using the White House as a residence, flying to his properties and rallies at whim with a huge secret service entourage, playing golf on our dime, and failing to demand fiscal discipline from his cabinet, staff, or anyone really.  But yes, mostly his policies will cost Americans a fortune - favoring companies and the wealthy with tax cuts, killing the working class by gutting ObamaCare, and starting trade wars, withdrawal from the Paris Accord, ripping up trade agreements, withdrawal from internationally agreed sanctions to prevent Iran and North Korea nuclear programs (straining our allies ability to sanction effectively)...  The list goes on and on with America being left adrift economically...

I cannot figure out if this is sarcasm. The stock market is up, unemployment down, working class pay less with the updated Trump subsidy. I personally have two interviews for next week. I mean Trump has his weaknesses...but economy?

toganet

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2574 on: July 05, 2018, 07:57:11 AM »
Trying to get back on track from our diversion (with a screen name like Zamboni, he must have a stand-alone mustache and Wayfarer Ray-bans, IMHO) - Trump will probably run up a hellalotta debt with his attempt to be a real President.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/dna-testing-migrant-family-separation/index.html.  I'm not even going to scratch the surface on him not really using the White House as a residence, flying to his properties and rallies at whim with a huge secret service entourage, playing golf on our dime, and failing to demand fiscal discipline from his cabinet, staff, or anyone really.  But yes, mostly his policies will cost Americans a fortune - favoring companies and the wealthy with tax cuts, killing the working class by gutting ObamaCare, and starting trade wars, withdrawal from the Paris Accord, ripping up trade agreements, withdrawal from internationally agreed sanctions to prevent Iran and North Korea nuclear programs (straining our allies ability to sanction effectively)...  The list goes on and on with America being left adrift economically...

I cannot figure out if this is sarcasm. The stock market is up, unemployment down, working class pay less with the updated Trump subsidy. I personally have two interviews for next week. I mean Trump has his weaknesses...but economy?

Reading between the lines, I think what @EscapeVelocity2020 is saying is that the decreased tax revenue is going to have a long-term negative effect, and any short-term effect has probably already been priced in.  Many also would argue that Trump inherited an economy on the upswing, and has managed to not screw it up yet, or find ways to keep the cycle going. 

Trump's actions on trade and his alignment with Putin's agenda make me think he is trying to crash the economy and generate hyperinflation -- but I might be a little cynical at this point.

FIRE@50

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2575 on: July 05, 2018, 08:27:58 AM »
Trying to get back on track from our diversion (with a screen name like Zamboni, he must have a stand-alone mustache and Wayfarer Ray-bans, IMHO) - Trump will probably run up a hellalotta debt with his attempt to be a real President.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/dna-testing-migrant-family-separation/index.html.  I'm not even going to scratch the surface on him not really using the White House as a residence, flying to his properties and rallies at whim with a huge secret service entourage, playing golf on our dime, and failing to demand fiscal discipline from his cabinet, staff, or anyone really.  But yes, mostly his policies will cost Americans a fortune - favoring companies and the wealthy with tax cuts, killing the working class by gutting ObamaCare, and starting trade wars, withdrawal from the Paris Accord, ripping up trade agreements, withdrawal from internationally agreed sanctions to prevent Iran and North Korea nuclear programs (straining our allies ability to sanction effectively)...  The list goes on and on with America being left adrift economically...

I cannot figure out if this is sarcasm. The stock market is up, unemployment down, working class pay less with the updated Trump subsidy. I personally have two interviews for next week. I mean Trump has his weaknesses...but economy?
The POTUS always gets too much blame when the economy is down and too much credit when it is up. Trump inherited an economy that has been improving for 9 years now. Trump chose to personally take an inordinate amount of credit for the stock market making all time highs over the last year. He hasn't said a thing about it since the market has moved sideways for several months. Why do you suppose that is? It is certainly your option to give him as much or as little credit as you like. Just be prepared for the inevitable recession that is coming. Who will you give credit for that?

Personally, I think all of Trump's policies will be bad for the American economy. Time will tell how that plays out of course.

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2576 on: July 05, 2018, 08:55:19 AM »
Correct, but to be clear the economy took off the day after Trump was elected. It was people's perception of what Trump would mean for the economy(tax cuts & less regulation). I really don't disagree with a recession coming; assuming Trump is reelected it will surely happen in his presidency too, but that is because stocks are too expensive. They were too much with the Dow was at 17,000(per the p/e ratio) and they are way too expensive now. Until people, particularly Americans, start having and spending more money that won't change.

Granted these are fixable problems with a good deal of drudgery and perseverance, that I am not sure Trump can fix, but it didn't seem like anyone else was fixing either; so why complain?

FIRE@50

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2577 on: July 05, 2018, 09:10:39 AM »
Don't confuse the economy with the stock market. The economy did not change the day after election day.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2578 on: July 05, 2018, 09:16:21 AM »
Trying to get back on track from our diversion (with a screen name like Zamboni, he must have a stand-alone mustache and Wayfarer Ray-bans, IMHO) - Trump will probably run up a hellalotta debt with his attempt to be a real President.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/dna-testing-migrant-family-separation/index.html.  I'm not even going to scratch the surface on him not really using the White House as a residence, flying to his properties and rallies at whim with a huge secret service entourage, playing golf on our dime, and failing to demand fiscal discipline from his cabinet, staff, or anyone really.  But yes, mostly his policies will cost Americans a fortune - favoring companies and the wealthy with tax cuts, killing the working class by gutting ObamaCare, and starting trade wars, withdrawal from the Paris Accord, ripping up trade agreements, withdrawal from internationally agreed sanctions to prevent Iran and North Korea nuclear programs (straining our allies ability to sanction effectively)...  The list goes on and on with America being left adrift economically...

I cannot figure out if this is sarcasm. The stock market is up, unemployment down, working class pay less with the updated Trump subsidy. I personally have two interviews for next week. I mean Trump has his weaknesses...but economy?
I'll let @EscapeVelocity2020 answer for his/herself, but toganet highlighted my basic frustrations.  Back in January 2017 we had an economy which was already pretty damn good from a macroeconomic standpoint.  DJT and the GOP then slashed tax revenue which has ballooned both the deficit and our debt, while taking a lot of shots are the safety net (many unsuccessfully). We've also seen a rash of de-regulation, but instead of streamlining existing protections the administration has just done away with regulations entirely - thereby circumventing the very reason these protections were put into place in the first place (to protect workers, the enviornment and our public resources). Ditto for regulations on the banking sector. All of these actions are throwing proverbial gasoline on an already lit fire.

Unfortunately by going this route the WH basically destroyed the opportunity to do some real long-term good with major infrastructure bill(s), and the debt load is just going to be dumped on us in the decades to come. A direct consequence of lowering federal revenues is that entitlement programs now make up a larger share of hte budget (that's just math goes) - making them less and less sustainable.  This is an implicit strategy of Ryan & Co, btw.
 It's a textbook example of sacrificing long-term prosperity for a short-term blaze.

Finally, when you look at objective metrics of the economy since DJT took office, they degree of change is good but certainly not spectacular. The markets are up about 11.5%/year, but wages still have barely budged (not coincidentally collective bargaining has been weakened). The JOBS reports basically show the economy expanding at the same pace as during the last 6 years of the Obama administration (slow but steady).  Inflation has started creeping upwards, housing is more expensive, and now prices are starting to spike with these new trade wars.

In the end I have to ask "has this been worth it" - and I have a hard time looking at our current economyu and concluding 'yes'.  Had policies just been allowed to continue we'd likely still have low unemployment, a rising market and stagnant wages, but without the added debt and long-term risk from eliminating many of hte protections and programs available to workers. A much better plan could have revolved around rebuilding and updating infrastructure over a period of decades and revising the tax code in a way that didn't just reward shareholders with buybacks (which is basically what this last tax bill did) but incentivise higher wages. Rather than fix the holes in our existing healthcare system or propose a new, better plan the strategy has been to just slash and ram the existing system with absolutely nothing in the works to replace it with.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2579 on: July 05, 2018, 10:58:10 AM »
Great comments Toganet, Fire@50, and Nereo - I don't have much extra to add in response to H2R35 other than reiterate not to confuse the US Economy with the US stock market.  It's easy enough to get the market to go up with short run fiscal (lower taxes) and monetary policy (raise rates more slowly than the market expected).  But the US economy is still in the doldrums (1.6% growth which barely keeps up with inflation) and the long run effects are eventually going to further reflect all of the GDP-killing defecits, reduced international trade, immigration brain-drain...  These things obviously don't happen over a year or two.  Maybe start by reading up on the US national debt...

Also, for the record, I am in no way trying to single out H2R35, your comments are pretty consistent with what seems like the majority of Americans.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 11:30:56 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2580 on: July 05, 2018, 11:05:50 AM »
So, Trump wants to meet privately with Putin in Helsinki. I expect it will look something like this:

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2581 on: July 05, 2018, 11:30:09 AM »
I see your points though I am not sure there would have been much(positive) change had HRC(or anyone else) been in charge. Our debt load has been growing for decades not just in absolute numbers but also its rate.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

The time to pass an infrastructure/jobs bill was 2008 not another entitlement bill.  The Dodd-Frank bill was too far, the sooner it is repealed the better. Republicans actually removed things like property taxes on residences as a write off, in my opinion that is a good thing, why are we subsidizing peoples high end housing(and their overtaxed expensive municipalities they live in). The ACA wasn't sustainable to begin with(I won't get into its lack of Constitutional muster; good riddance Kennedy), Repbs just made it tolerable for now(unless of course you make/have a ton of cash and just have to pay full price; sorry dude, no pity here)*. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/11/05/when-your-shitty-health-insurance-doubles-in-price/

In conclusion
-There is a lot of criticism without being constructive so that someone like me that is averse to someone like trump finds it hard to discern the facts and realize where there is an actual problem.
-A lot of this is social issues that the left and those who sympathize with are upset they are not winning as much or as quickly, but social liberals are still winning!
-All of this to say that it seems like a lot of people are just whining and I(among many others) am ignoring this thread and other discussion like it.


*just to clarify I do appreciate all his ideas,except the last one since it is incongruous to the others, to update/grade our system.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2582 on: July 05, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
So, Trump wants to meet privately with Putin in Helsinki. I expect it will look something like this:


To my knowledge, Trump has never, ever covered his 'hair'.

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2583 on: July 05, 2018, 11:36:56 AM »
I see your points though I am not sure there would have been much(positive) change had HRC(or anyone else) been in charge. Our debt load has been growing for decades not just in absolute numbers but also its rate.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

The time to pass an infrastructure/jobs bill was 2008 not another entitlement bill.  The Dodd-Frank bill was too far, the sooner it is repealed the better. Republicans actually removed things like property taxes on residences as a write off, in my opinion that is a good thing, why are we subsidizing peoples high end housing(and their overtaxed expensive municipalities they live in). The ACA wasn't sustainable to begin with(I won't get into its lack of Constitutional muster; good riddance Kennedy), Repbs just made it tolerable for now(unless of course you make/have a ton of cash and just have to pay full price; sorry dude, no pity here)*. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/11/05/when-your-shitty-health-insurance-doubles-in-price/



Roberts was the swing vote that upheld the ACA.  Kennedy voted with the dissent.

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2584 on: July 05, 2018, 11:42:15 AM »
case in point /\/\/\ (I know he is trying to be cute and funny but the vitrol that often comes with this is what is disturbing)

In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The OVERWHELMING, VAST MAJORITY of his real estate holdings are within the US, why on earth would he do anything whatsoever to disestablished that???


I understand the difference between the economy and the stock market and realize how US debt typically ends up being higher stock prices-greater P/E ratios-inflation-stagnant wages, etc. But you don't kill that by not cutting taxes, you kill it by not spending epic loads of cash. Perhaps the best thing about trump is that he has kept us from invading Syria/Iraq. Other than that his and the Repbs hands are tied. Politically, they cannot simply stop the ACA, certainly cannot stop SS or Medicare. There simply is not much to move. The only thing that can be done, not start another foreign war, which they haven't done.

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2585 on: July 05, 2018, 11:43:25 AM »
I see your points though I am not sure there would have been much(positive) change had HRC(or anyone else) been in charge. Our debt load has been growing for decades not just in absolute numbers but also its rate.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

The time to pass an infrastructure/jobs bill was 2008 not another entitlement bill.  The Dodd-Frank bill was too far, the sooner it is repealed the better. Republicans actually removed things like property taxes on residences as a write off, in my opinion that is a good thing, why are we subsidizing peoples high end housing(and their overtaxed expensive municipalities they live in). The ACA wasn't sustainable to begin with(I won't get into its lack of Constitutional muster; good riddance Kennedy), Repbs just made it tolerable for now(unless of course you make/have a ton of cash and just have to pay full price; sorry dude, no pity here)*. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/11/05/when-your-shitty-health-insurance-doubles-in-price/



Roberts was the swing vote that upheld the ACA.  Kennedy voted with the dissent.

6-3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/obamacare-survives-supreme-court-challenge/2015/06/25/af87608e-188a-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html?utm_term=.b16b45b0a49c

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2586 on: July 05, 2018, 11:45:18 AM »
case in point /\/\/\ (I know he is trying to be cute and funny but the vitrol that often comes with this is what is disturbing)

In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The OVERWHELMING, VAST MAJORITY of his real estate holdings are within the US, why on earth would he do anything whatsoever to disestablished that???


I understand the difference between the economy and the stock market and realize how US debt typically ends up being higher stock prices-greater P/E ratios-inflation-stagnant wages, etc. But you don't kill that by not cutting taxes, you kill it by not spending epic loads of cash. Perhaps the best thing about trump is that he has kept us from invading Syria/Iraq. Other than that his and the Repbs hands are tied. Politically, they cannot simply stop the ACA, certainly cannot stop SS or Medicare. There simply is not much to move. The only thing that can be done, not start another foreign war, which they haven't done.

You are aware that he repeatedly broached the idea of  invading Venezuela to his aids/advisors, right?  I don't think he's going to 'keep us' from invading anything.  His advisors might.

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2587 on: July 05, 2018, 11:49:21 AM »
So he surrounds himself with talent? GOP talent...

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2588 on: July 05, 2018, 11:51:00 AM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2589 on: July 05, 2018, 11:54:49 AM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

The world where for the past decade, most of Trump's investment money comes from Russia?

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2590 on: July 05, 2018, 12:00:43 PM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

The world where for the past decade, most of Trump's investment money comes from Russia?

The one where people around Trump keep getting indicted for their actions regarding Russia?

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2591 on: July 05, 2018, 12:05:30 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

I am still shocked at the lack of outrage. Actually I am not really shocked, just disappointed. Perhaps they were talking about the upcoming Ukraine debacle, who knows.

Trump seems like an improvement.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2592 on: July 05, 2018, 12:06:33 PM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

The world where for the past decade, most of Trump's investment money comes from Russia?

The world where high-level people who cross Putin tend to wind up shot or poisoned?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2593 on: July 05, 2018, 12:26:30 PM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

Trump's biggest strength is he makes people so crazy that they can't stick to reasonable criticisms.  There are so many legitimate criticisms, but all the crazy drowns out the legitimate criticism. 

Also, even if Putin had video of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other, I'm not sure Trump would be ashamed of that. 

toganet

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2594 on: July 05, 2018, 12:28:05 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

I am still shocked at the lack of outrage. Actually I am not really shocked, just disappointed. Perhaps they were talking about the upcoming Ukraine debacle, who knows.

Trump seems like an improvement.

From the snopes article, Obama basically said, "after the election I won't be running for office anymore, so I can't talk about this stuff now, but I will be able to then."  That sounds like a reasonable thing to say, and something that the sitting President of our largest rival would understand as political reality.  There were no promises made, and I don't think Obama immediately attempted to remove sanctions upon winning in 2012.  Keep in mind this was also prior to the Russian occupation of Crimea, which took place in December 2014.

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2595 on: July 05, 2018, 01:02:16 PM »
I see your points though I am not sure there would have been much(positive) change had HRC(or anyone else) been in charge. Our debt load has been growing for decades not just in absolute numbers but also its rate.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

The time to pass an infrastructure/jobs bill was 2008 not another entitlement bill.  The Dodd-Frank bill was too far, the sooner it is repealed the better. Republicans actually removed things like property taxes on residences as a write off, in my opinion that is a good thing, why are we subsidizing peoples high end housing(and their overtaxed expensive municipalities they live in). The ACA wasn't sustainable to begin with(I won't get into its lack of Constitutional muster; good riddance Kennedy), Repbs just made it tolerable for now(unless of course you make/have a ton of cash and just have to pay full price; sorry dude, no pity here)*. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/11/05/when-your-shitty-health-insurance-doubles-in-price/



Roberts was the swing vote that upheld the ACA.  Kennedy voted with the dissent.

6-3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/obamacare-survives-supreme-court-challenge/2015/06/25/af87608e-188a-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html?utm_term=.b16b45b0a49c

Ah, wrong Supreme Court case.

I thought you were referring to National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius

hoping2retire35

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2596 on: July 05, 2018, 01:34:01 PM »
In what world does it make any sense for Trump to kneel to Putin's wishes???? He has a hotel in Russia or something?

The same world where Putin did his best to put Trump into power?  Where Trump immediately tried to reverse sanctions on Russia after coming to office?  Where Trump congratulates Putin on rigging an election?  Where Putin has video tapes of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other?  This world?

Trump's biggest strength is he makes people so crazy that they can't stick to reasonable criticisms.  There are so many legitimate criticisms, but all the crazy drowns out the legitimate criticism.

Also, even if Putin had video of Trump enjoying prostitutes urinating on each other, I'm not sure Trump would be ashamed of that.
This is what is frustrating. I expect something like this thread on reddit or elsewhere but not the mustache forums. People here are typically thoughtful and logical. Give one or two sensible, cited, arguments why Trump or the GOP(it is ok to criticize the Dems too) is doing something foolish. Make your case plainly, in unbiased terms, why you think it is detrimental to the country. Done.

We should make a new thread, 'Sensible Criticisms of President Trump.'

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2597 on: July 05, 2018, 01:49:10 PM »
Well Scott Pruitt is out...
so there's another high-profile cabinet member from this admin kicked to the curb...  that list is growing rather long.

FIRE@50

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2598 on: July 05, 2018, 01:56:06 PM »
Well Scott Pruitt is out...
so there's another high-profile cabinet member from this admin kicked to the curb...  that list is growing rather long.
Obviously anyone willing to work with/for Trump is a schmuck, but keep in mind that these are the best schmucks that he could find. This is the A squad. Things will continue to get worse. Everyone that follows will be B's and C's. That isn't just a Trump phenomenon, that is how every administration works.

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2599 on: July 05, 2018, 02:28:00 PM »
What will they do with Pruitt's phone booth?