Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 312280 times)

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2050 on: June 20, 2018, 08:01:15 AM »



Remember this date. Remember it well as the day you defended separating children from their parents and holding them in cages. Because your descendants will, and they'll remember it with shame.

The Trump presidency has been a raging dumpster fire of everything that was once good about America, but this is low even for the current climate. What's going on now is unspeakable barbarism of a kind any decent human should abhor. There's no two sides on this one: this is morally vile and unspeakable, and no amount of obfuscation excuses it. This is a turning point in American history, a fundamental abandonment of any kind of decency, and people should think long and hard before deciding they're okay with ripping innocent children from their parents' arms and throwing them in cages.

Oh spare me. They came over here, crossed the border illegally, what the hell is the expected thing to do here? They are being processed. Now instead of being released to face a court date that never is gonna happen (lol on the idea that a person charged with crossing the border will even show up to that), they are being processed and hopefully deported as a family back to their country. The fact that there are thousands of families being caught up in this show what bullshit our system is and how we ended up with so many illegal immigrants.

And to the poster who asked where I got the hundreds of families being treated this way in the past, I'm not sure, I'll look.

They did not. The children being separated from their parents' arms and thrown in cages have committed no crimes, because they're CHILDREN.

Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)

Out of curiosity, what must have happened in a personís life that they can joke callously about children being stolen from parents by the government officials they have elected?

Freedom2016

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2051 on: June 20, 2018, 08:05:41 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)

This is disgusting.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:14:08 AM by Freedom2016 »

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2052 on: June 20, 2018, 08:15:50 AM »
How do they keep track of these kids. Especially the babies and toddlers who can't speak. If they have 300 babies, what do they do to identify them? They can't put dog tags on them, they can't tattoo them, microchip them like animals? How will these babies ever get back to the rightful parents?

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2053 on: June 20, 2018, 08:18:51 AM »
How do they keep track of these kids. Especially the babies and toddlers who can't speak. If they have 300 babies, what do they do to identify them? They can't put dog tags on them, they can't tattoo them, microchip them like animals? How will these babies ever get back to the rightful parents?

I donít know what is done to identify the kids, and there doesnít seem to be any coherent reunification plan. https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/19/does-united-states-plan-reunite-children-parents/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/immigration-deported-parents.html

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2054 on: June 20, 2018, 08:22:41 AM »
How do they keep track of these kids. Especially the babies and toddlers who can't speak. If they have 300 babies, what do they do to identify them? They can't put dog tags on them, they can't tattoo them, microchip them like animals? How will these babies ever get back to the rightful parents?

I donít know what is done to identify the kids, and there doesnít seem to be any coherent reunification plan. https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/19/does-united-states-plan-reunite-children-parents/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/immigration-deported-parents.html

Exactly.

And one of the many, many fears I have about this is that in situations where many, many children are kept away from their parents and supervised by only a few individuals -- children who are by their very nature, small, unable to defend themselves, and in most cases unable to speak English -- there is ample room/ability for torture, rape, and even neglect to the point of the child's life being in danger for these detained children.

But yeah, let's yuk it up about the newest PlayStation with Ematicic.

Warlord1986

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2055 on: June 20, 2018, 08:22:48 AM »
There are two separate issues here. One is immigration law and how we should process immigrants.

The other is the issue of taking children from their parents and putting them in cages. Away from their families, away from everyone they know, and under the supervision of...Border Patrol? Teachers? Child care experts? IDK.

One of these things is not like the other. One is a question of policy, procedure, and law. The other is a question of morality.

If you are in favor of the separation of children from their parents then you need to get right with the Lord.

OurTown

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2056 on: June 20, 2018, 08:24:12 AM »
Jokes about kidnapping refugee children and separating them from their parents are not funny.  For that matter, racism is not funny either.  Hatred is not funny.  Blind tribalism is not funny.  History will not look kindly on this regime, nor on its supporters.

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2057 on: June 20, 2018, 08:30:46 AM »



Remember this date. Remember it well as the day you defended separating children from their parents and holding them in cages. Because your descendants will, and they'll remember it with shame.

The Trump presidency has been a raging dumpster fire of everything that was once good about America, but this is low even for the current climate. What's going on now is unspeakable barbarism of a kind any decent human should abhor. There's no two sides on this one: this is morally vile and unspeakable, and no amount of obfuscation excuses it. This is a turning point in American history, a fundamental abandonment of any kind of decency, and people should think long and hard before deciding they're okay with ripping innocent children from their parents' arms and throwing them in cages.

Oh spare me. They came over here, crossed the border illegally, what the hell is the expected thing to do here? They are being processed. Now instead of being released to face a court date that never is gonna happen (lol on the idea that a person charged with crossing the border will even show up to that), they are being processed and hopefully deported as a family back to their country. The fact that there are thousands of families being caught up in this show what bullshit our system is and how we ended up with so many illegal immigrants.

And to the poster who asked where I got the hundreds of families being treated this way in the past, I'm not sure, I'll look.

They did not. The children being separated from their parents' arms and thrown in cages have committed no crimes, because they're CHILDREN.

Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)

This is disgusting.

I agree.

I am not a sentimental person, am not a parent and have no desire to be, and have frequently rolled my eyes over hearing variants of 'won't someone think of the children!' in political debates.

I am a generally Democratic voter, but one who would be willing to look at supporting a much more restrictive immigration policy (though not a stupid fucking wall) and who thinks picking immigration policy as a hill to die on is a terrible political strategy for the Dems.

I have a family member who used to be a Border Patrol agent, and know from the inside how hard and depressing that job can be.

But sentiments like those expressed above make me despair, and make my skin crawl with horror.  I wish I could say that I can't believe so many Americans are willing to shrug this off, but a huge chunk of this country has become morally unrecognizable to me over the past 20 years. Or maybe it was always this way and I was blind to it.  Either way, it's reprehensible.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2058 on: June 20, 2018, 08:33:09 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2059 on: June 20, 2018, 08:36:14 AM »
How do they keep track of these kids. Especially the babies and toddlers who can't speak. If they have 300 babies, what do they do to identify them? They can't put dog tags on them, they can't tattoo them, microchip them like animals? How will these babies ever get back to the rightful parents?

I donít know what is done to identify the kids, and there doesnít seem to be any coherent reunification plan. https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/19/does-united-states-plan-reunite-children-parents/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/immigration-deported-parents.html

The children are already in re-education centers being Americanized.  I assume that they'll be adopted out to US families.  Why would they be returned to their parents?  There's historical precedent for this sort of thing:

http://www.dw.com/en/forgotten-victims-polish-children-abducted-during-world-war-ii-still-seeking-truth/a-41981284

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2060 on: June 20, 2018, 08:40:59 AM »
How do they keep track of these kids. Especially the babies and toddlers who can't speak. If they have 300 babies, what do they do to identify them? They can't put dog tags on them, they can't tattoo them, microchip them like animals? How will these babies ever get back to the rightful parents?

I donít know what is done to identify the kids, and there doesnít seem to be any coherent reunification plan. https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/19/does-united-states-plan-reunite-children-parents/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/immigration-deported-parents.html

The children are already in re-education centers being Americanized.  I assume that they'll be adopted out to US families.  Why would they be returned to their parents?  There's historical precedent for this sort of thing:

http://www.dw.com/en/forgotten-victims-polish-children-abducted-during-world-war-ii-still-seeking-truth/a-41981284

It's an ugly part of US history, as well. American Indian Boarding Schools Haunt Many

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2061 on: June 20, 2018, 08:45:43 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)

Besides the moral reprehensibility of your statement ("Haha, children are being taken from their parents. That's ok because we're so nice to them!"), you do realize that there are other ways to handle this situation, right? It's not either let illegal immigrants run free OR separate children from parents and toss the children into warehouses.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Maybe you don't like the poor or maybe you don't like brown people but reflect on what you wrote and have some compassion.


Samuel

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2062 on: June 20, 2018, 09:03:09 AM »
Yeah, that was terrible how President Obama directed his limited resources to prioritize the arrest and removal of dangerous gang members and criminals instead of needlessly traumatizing children and parents for political leverage. What a weak, dumb, immoral chump.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2063 on: June 20, 2018, 09:23:13 AM »
I think there is also a big divide happening in our country based on what new and information sources people peruse. I make a point of seeking out what Fox and other sources say, though I tend to primarily read sources like the the NYT. There is a wide gulf in the angle taken and what facts are and are not included. Fox news is straight up propaganda with few exceptions. It is disgusting. Given the size of their viewership,  is a bit disingenuous to say that they are not MSM. But, it also plays into their key message of the country changing to be against them and the 'Libs are going to come take your ______.

And at the end of the day, it is hard even to lay the blame at the feet of Fox news. It is all part of America. We need to have a pretty deep soul reckoning if we are to rise above this. Given that Trump's polling has been going up recently in the face of abhorrent international and domestic action, I have little hope. My main hope is that Trump isn't paving for the way for someone equally abhorrent who has charisma and eloquence.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2064 on: June 20, 2018, 09:25:11 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2065 on: June 20, 2018, 09:27:16 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Puerto Ricans are US citizens, not immigrants.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2066 on: June 20, 2018, 09:29:17 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Your "I am the reasonable one" act does not mask the fact that you have a reprehensible disregard for innocent children.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2067 on: June 20, 2018, 09:34:22 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Puerto Ricans are US citizens, not immigrants.

Well aware but they do not have all of the rights as citizens. Since they are a territory their rights are very limited despite a huge number serving in the military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_voting_rights_in_Puerto_Rico

Plus, I never claimed that they are immigrants. The "And" between "Puerto Ricans" and "immigrants" was mean to separate the 2 as 2 different immigration priorities that I feel are higher than opening the border for more immigrants. I apologize if there was a structurally better way to write that sentence to avoid such confusion.


OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2068 on: June 20, 2018, 09:41:59 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Puerto Ricans are US citizens, not immigrants.

Well aware but they do not have all of the rights as citizens. Since they are a territory their rights are very limited despite a huge number serving in the military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_voting_rights_in_Puerto_Rico

Plus, I never claimed that they are immigrants. The "And" between "Puerto Ricans" and "immigrants" was mean to separate the 2 as 2 different immigration priorities that I feel are higher than opening the border for more immigrants. I apologize if there was a structurally better way to write that sentence to avoid such confusion.

I'd still love to know how you justify joking about children who have been taken from their parents and placed in warehouses by the federal government.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2069 on: June 20, 2018, 09:43:59 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Your "I am the reasonable one" act does not mask the fact that you have a reprehensible disregard for innocent children.

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

I would love to hear something with more substance that Impeach Trump because Liberals have been chanting that since day one. This is ONLY using those children as leverage, which I find more reprehensible than anything I have done this week.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2070 on: June 20, 2018, 09:50:53 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Your "I am the reasonable one" act does not mask the fact that you have a reprehensible disregard for innocent children.

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

I would love to hear something with more substance that Impeach Trump because Liberals have been chanting that since day one. This is ONLY using those children as leverage, which I find more reprehensible than anything I have done this week.

Arrests for illegal immigration have been declining for many years -- what is the justification for this new zero tolerance policy?

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2071 on: June 20, 2018, 09:51:47 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Your "I am the reasonable one" act does not mask the fact that you have a reprehensible disregard for innocent children.

Not an act. Policy needs to change and the change needs to be somewhere in the middle. I am simply looking at the root cause as to how this problem escalated, and discussing what needs to be done to fix this situation. It is too easy to look at this atrocity to justify whatever agenda you have and use the "innocent children" to "Rub Raw, the Sores of Discontent" to try and get people on the Anti-Trump train and get angry people in the streets. I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism. There are accommodations for the children. Not saying we are "being nice" to them as a means to justify the atrocity, just saying that this convoy, and the families involved came here intending to break the law. Simply opening the door would have been an unacceptable counter.

I would love to hear something with more substance that Impeach Trump because Liberals have been chanting that since day one. This is ONLY using those children as leverage, which I find more reprehensible than anything I have done this week.

http://time.com/5315262/congress-house-democrats-bill-law-immigrant-families-together-family-separation/

And then, of course, there's the fact that Trump could just stop this separation of families at any time. But he doesn't. Because yes, he is using those children as leverage.

DarkandStormy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2072 on: June 20, 2018, 09:52:20 AM »
I think there should have already been angry people in the streets when President Trump offered a path to citizenship but was stopped with obstructionism.

...

I would love to hear something with more substance that Impeach Trump because Liberals have been chanting that since day one. This is ONLY using those children as leverage, which I find more reprehensible than anything I have done this week.

LOL.  We're dealing with a troll, folks.

A "reasonable" person thinks Trump offered a path to citizenship (false) and Dems obstructed (false).

A "reasonable" person has only been hearing "Impeach Trump" (please cite) and liberals are using children as leverage (false).  Trump is using detained children as leverage for his wall and to deter future asylum seekers.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2073 on: June 20, 2018, 09:54:07 AM »
Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.
1. You do realize that much of this forum is pretty centrist, right? many on this very thread have a long history of voting R.
2. Puerto Ricans are US Citizens. Full Stop. PR is a territory, and there fore does not have the same representation in Congress (ie, non-voting members; the current representative from PR is is Jenniffer Gonzalez).
3. Opposition to the way that families are being treated is bi-partisan. The primary political football here is Trump (and Stephen Miller) using it as a lever to get a wall.
4. If Trump's hands are so tied, why was this policy not enacted in the first year of his term?
5. Trump would have more credibility if he did not have a history of hiring both illegal foreign workers (and then not paying them, a la Trump Tower), or preferentially hiring cheap foreign workers for his many properties while President. Trump has  a long, well-documented history of racist practices in his real estate dealings.
6. Is family separation really a necessary part of deportation?

Illegal immigration is a difficult problem. It will never be *solved* and any workable solution is going to involve compromise. Hell, even Reagan knew this. But, it does not have to include separating children from their parents and putting them in kennels.

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2074 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:39 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2075 on: June 20, 2018, 09:57:54 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

Because it's way, way easier to argue with a straw man than a real one, of course.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2076 on: June 20, 2018, 09:58:46 AM »
I would love to hear something with more substance that Impeach Trump because Liberals have been chanting that since day one. This is ONLY using those children as leverage, which I find more reprehensible than anything I have done this week.

Actually, quite a few conservatives were also in the never-Trump camp. Let's not forget our history.
The dislike of Trump's policy of separating children is bipartisan. Even fucking Mitch McConnell doesn't like it.

But the bolded part of your statement may be the best unintentional irony I have seen in a long time. Beautiful in it's own way, really.

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2077 on: June 20, 2018, 10:09:39 AM »
Hahaha Donny Boy is going to sign something to stop separating kids from parents. I guess political pressure is getting to him. He will beat his chest and claim he had to step in and solve this problem himself since Congress couldn't do it. He will turn it all around to make himself look like a hero. Hero NOT!

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2078 on: June 20, 2018, 10:10:18 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

If we rejected everyone, they would have to stay somewhere. The idea that there is a hotel on the otherside of the border that would accommodate the entire convoy seems VERY impractical to me, I therefore surmised that a make shift dwelling for thousands of people would have to be set up in the interim. That is the main reason they are in Camps here. If a few thousand people just show up, it is not easy to just book them a room or provide immediate housing for everyone. Many of the children were separated already. I think it is horrible that any children are being ripped out of any parents arms. The conditions in Mexico are worse, hopefully that is not up for debate, so there are multiple answers. 1. Accept everyone 2. Accept Nobody 3. Accept women and children under refugee status. There are more combinations to consider but NONE are perfect.

I have no information on the accommodations that are being provided in Mexico but I can safely make 2 assumptions. 1. No, they would not be separated as they were able to pass through unrestricted on the Southern entry into the country with the understanding that this was their destination. 2. Any make shift accommodations in Mexico would be less appealing that the US alternatives. If Mexico could provide better, or was overall more appealing then I imagine that would be their final destination. But I read several news sources. I don't see anything factually wrong with my position.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2079 on: June 20, 2018, 10:13:24 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

Because it's way, way easier to argue with a straw man than a real one, of course.

Liberal eloquence at it's finest. Thanks for chiming in Aunt Sally! Your contribution to the topic at hand as been enlightening.

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2080 on: June 20, 2018, 10:15:01 AM »
If we rejected everyone, they would have to stay somewhere. The idea that there is a hotel on the otherside of the border that would accommodate the entire convoy seems VERY impractical to me, I therefore surmised that a make shift dwelling for thousands of people would have to be set up in the interim. That is the main reason they are in Camps here. If a few thousand people just show up, it is not easy to just book them a room or provide immediate housing for everyone. Many of the children were separated already. I think it is horrible that any children are being ripped out of any parents arms. The conditions in Mexico are worse, hopefully that is not up for debate, so there are multiple answers. 1. Accept everyone 2. Accept Nobody 3. Accept women and children under refugee status. There are more combinations to consider but NONE are perfect.

I have no information on the accommodations that are being provided in Mexico but I can safely make 2 assumptions. 1. No, they would not be separated as they were able to pass through unrestricted on the Southern entry into the country with the understanding that this was their destination. 2. Any make shift accommodations in Mexico would be less appealing that the US alternatives. If Mexico could provide better, or was overall more appealing then I imagine that would be their final destination. But I read several news sources. I don't see anything factually wrong with my position.

Other people have requested your sources. Would you please share these several news sources?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2081 on: June 20, 2018, 10:18:30 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

Because it's way, way easier to argue with a straw man than a real one, of course.

Liberal eloquence at it's finest. Thanks for chiming in Aunt Sally! Your contribution to the topic at hand as been enlightening.

Straw men are not the property of one party.

When one uses a straw man argument, as you did above, it's reasonable to assume that it's because the person using it is either too lazy or incapable of using a better one.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:25:43 AM by Kris »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2082 on: June 20, 2018, 10:21:15 AM »
A good detailed explanation of what is happening to asylum seekers:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/whats-really-happening-asylum-seeking-families-separated/

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2083 on: June 20, 2018, 10:27:48 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

If we rejected everyone, they would have to stay somewhere. The idea that there is a hotel on the otherside of the border that would accommodate the entire convoy seems VERY impractical to me, I therefore surmised that a make shift dwelling for thousands of people would have to be set up in the interim. That is the main reason they are in Camps here. If a few thousand people just show up, it is not easy to just book them a room or provide immediate housing for everyone. Many of the children were separated already. I think it is horrible that any children are being ripped out of any parents arms. The conditions in Mexico are worse, hopefully that is not up for debate, so there are multiple answers. 1. Accept everyone 2. Accept Nobody 3. Accept women and children under refugee status. There are more combinations to consider but NONE are perfect.

I have no information on the accommodations that are being provided in Mexico but I can safely make 2 assumptions. 1. No, they would not be separated as they were able to pass through unrestricted on the Southern entry into the country with the understanding that this was their destination. 2. Any make shift accommodations in Mexico would be less appealing that the US alternatives. If Mexico could provide better, or was overall more appealing then I imagine that would be their final destination. But I read several news sources. I don't see anything factually wrong with my position.

Do I understand your argument correctly, that we are housing these people in detention centers because we think things are worse in Mexico? That, in fact, we are choosing to let them in to our detention centers to prevent them from being in worse conditions on the other side of the border? If that is the case, then why are we charging them with a criminal offense (the basis for child separation)? Why?

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2084 on: June 20, 2018, 10:28:11 AM »
Orange Julius is now walking back the policy.  Even the Repubs are against it.  An incompetent and cruel person.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2085 on: June 20, 2018, 10:28:18 AM »
Poor kids. I saw some of the pictures of these cages. Did you know that they don't even have the most current Play Station. Those children were stolen from Honduras and forced to play a Play Station 3. Conservatives are acting like these families came here illegally or something. I know if I brought my family to a foreign nation and ran across the border, they would at least give us a modern video gaming system and free health care. I cannot believe America just doesn't open the border to everyone since we have unlimited resources to give anyone. Republicans keep saying weird things like we need to "Vett" them or something. Who cares why they all want to come, everyone should be allowed in and bestowed all American rights (except the second amendment, since guns are so terrible), (and the first amendment if they are not Liberals, who wants a non-liberal to share an opinion right?)
... I have the advantage of neutrality. I look at both sides. ...

Just going to juxtapose these here for anyone that has any doubts about our supposedly neutral friend.

Far Left - Let everyone in and give them every right and benefit
Far Right - Build a wall and allow no immigrants. Send all illegals out ASAP
Middle - Develop policy to fix a poorly conceived DACA problem. Too many in Limbo. Allow some DACA to stay with a path to citizenship. Send criminals out. Enforce existing Immigration and Border policy and screen people that come into the country.

My sympathy for families that are trying to rush the border, and have intentionally split up to make sure their kids get in, is thin. Liberal groups have paid quite a bit to finance this convoy and escalate the problem. If the President turned everyone away, they would be in similar camps on the Mexico side. If he allowed everyone in, there would be camps of children and adults until there were houses provided.

I am mocking the "Impeach Trump" comical MSM reporting and commenting because many factors ties his hands to the current events. If he let everyone in, he would have to let the next and subsequent convoys in, and I do not believe that the borders should be unconditionally opened.

Just because I am not far left, you will see me as wrong. I am ok with that. I have an extended military family from every walk of life but I can see how many of you have to resort to calling people racist as a means to some how justify your opinion of open borders. I just find it childish. Many current Puerto Ricans and existing immigrants are struggling with the broken immigration system and I hope they are rightfully cared for, prior to opening the border for more as you propose would be the ethical thing to do.

Would you be willing to give us your sources for information like this? Perhaps just fill us in on where you get your news in general? Why would they be in similar camps on the other side of the border? Would parent also be separated from their children in these camps?

You continue to make the assumption that anyone upset by the separating of children from parents wants to "let everyone in". This is most definitely not the case. Could you elaborate on why you're making that connection?

Because it's way, way easier to argue with a straw man than a real one, of course.

Liberal eloquence at it's finest. Thanks for chiming in Aunt Sally! Your contribution to the topic at hand as been enlightening.

Straw men are not the property of one party.

When one uses a straw man, as you did above, it's reasonable to assume that it's because the person using it is either too lazy or incapable of using a better one.

I think the argument is valid. The convoy was known about since even before hitting Mexico. I think it is absolutely reasonable to concur that letting this convoy pass through (again to what end) this would encourage future convoys. People want to be in the US for a good reason. The President took a firm stance when the convoy was first reported and did 2 things. 1. He ssaid it would not be allowed to pass 2. Deployed the National Guard to show the immigrants that our borders were not open

Regardless of how I feel about those 2 actions, turning back and welcoming the immigrants when they actually arrived, would influence more to come to the border. I think that is a rational conclusion and you see it as a fallacy. We are at an impasse, I would just like to hear an actual counter, not just a snarky one liner (which I consider a bit more on the lazy side).

My favorite news site is BBC. I feel like they capture things from a less biased vantage point that most and is especially helpful to determine world view topics.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2086 on: June 20, 2018, 10:35:36 AM »

My favorite news site is BBC. I feel like they capture things from a less biased vantage point that most and is especially helpful to determine world view topics.

Good to know. For some reason, I'm not getting the same message from BBC.

BBC-The health impact of separating migrant children from parents
BBC-The sound of migrant children separated from parents
Reality Check: Who decided to take away children at the US border?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:43:06 AM by OtherJen »

toganet

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2087 on: June 20, 2018, 10:40:29 AM »
We need immigrants in this country, as our birthrate overall is declining.  An overall solution would be great, but will probably need to be one that actually accepts more immigrants, not fewer.

If you're afraid that the US is going to look browner and sound spanishier 25 years from now, your fears will probably be realized, no matter what policies are adopted.  I suggest we open our eyes to the reality of things, and take ownership of how we integrate our new Americans, vs. trying to keep them out.  But that's just me, a "far left" capitalist who wants to make sure we have a healthy, hardworking population not just now but for perpetuity.

I'm not sure what DACA has to do with the current ZT policy, as it only applied to folks who came to the United States without documents before June 15, 2012.

I think there may also be some confusion about what benefits immigrants are entitled to, documented vs. undocumented.  The fear machine on the Right pushes the idea of "Schrodinger's immigrant": A scary (but lazy) brown-skinned guy who simultaneously takes your job and lives off welfare.  Problem is, immigrants aren't eligible for those benefits: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-truth-about-immigrants-and-public-benefits/


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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2088 on: June 20, 2018, 10:41:04 AM »
I'll just add, that as a proponent of separation of church and state, it is troublesome to have members of the administration quoting passages of the Bible to support the policy. A person may be informed by their faith in their actions, but should not be quoting any religious text as a specific basis for policy. We do not have a state religion for a reason.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2089 on: June 20, 2018, 10:51:26 AM »
Orange Julius is now walking back the policy.  Even the Repubs are against it.  An incompetent and cruel person.

Yep, he's killing the Republicans for the midterms. Videos of kids in cages doesn't show well in opponent ads.

Breitbart is still going full strength.

Quote from: breitbart
This so-called ďmigrant child separation crisisĒ is as phony and manufactured as the Russian collusion hoax, a ginned up controversy fabricated by the media to blot out President Trumpís success with North Korea, a booming economy, and to distract from the nuclear fallout that came via the Inspector General report on our disgraced FBI, including this weekís devastating congressional hearings.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2090 on: June 20, 2018, 10:52:15 AM »

My favorite news site is BBC. I feel like they capture things from a less biased vantage point that most and is especially helpful to determine world view topics.

Good to know. For some reason, I'm not getting the same message from BBC.

BBC-The health impact of separating migrant children from parents
BBC-The sound of migrant children separated from parents
Reality Check: Who decided to take away children at the US border?

You forgot one https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44552852

There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out. 

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2091 on: June 20, 2018, 10:53:40 AM »

My favorite news site is BBC. I feel like they capture things from a less biased vantage point that most and is especially helpful to determine world view topics.

Good to know. For some reason, I'm not getting the same message from BBC.

BBC-The health impact of separating migrant children from parents
BBC-The sound of migrant children separated from parents
Reality Check: Who decided to take away children at the US border?

You forgot one https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44552852

There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out.

I sincerely hope he signs something that will actually help. The fact that he authorized this action at all is deplorable.

Also, that's an interesting about-face, as earlier you were joking rather callously about the situation.

bacchi

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2092 on: June 20, 2018, 10:59:34 AM »
There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out.

You didn't suggest alternatives; you suggested a false dichotomy (let them all in or lock the children up) and mocked the situation. This was pointed out to you several times.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

And now you're claiming to be the victim. That's rich.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2093 on: June 20, 2018, 10:59:55 AM »
We need immigrants in this country, as our birthrate overall is declining.  An overall solution would be great, but will probably need to be one that actually accepts more immigrants, not fewer.

If you're afraid that the US is going to look browner and sound spanishier 25 years from now, your fears will probably be realized, no matter what policies are adopted.  I suggest we open our eyes to the reality of things, and take ownership of how we integrate our new Americans, vs. trying to keep them out.  But that's just me, a "far left" capitalist who wants to make sure we have a healthy, hardworking population not just now but for perpetuity.

I'm not sure what DACA has to do with the current ZT policy, as it only applied to folks who came to the United States without documents before June 15, 2012.

I think there may also be some confusion about what benefits immigrants are entitled to, documented vs. undocumented.  The fear machine on the Right pushes the idea of "Schrodinger's immigrant": A scary (but lazy) brown-skinned guy who simultaneously takes your job and lives off welfare.  Problem is, immigrants aren't eligible for those benefits: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-truth-about-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Agreed completely. Immigration reform is way over due! I just argue that any attempt to accept immigrants should be done with a path to citizenship. Not required citizenship, but at least a path. Some want to come here just to work abroad, some want a better life for their families. Wanting border security does not mean I don't want immigrants.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2094 on: June 20, 2018, 11:01:00 AM »

My favorite news site is BBC. I feel like they capture things from a less biased vantage point that most and is especially helpful to determine world view topics.

Good to know. For some reason, I'm not getting the same message from BBC.

BBC-The health impact of separating migrant children from parents
BBC-The sound of migrant children separated from parents
Reality Check: Who decided to take away children at the US border?

You forgot one https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44552852

There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out.

You're quick. That video was posted the exact minute you commented.

Also, it's a video of Trump announcing plans to change course. It in no way defends your stance.

ematicic

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2095 on: June 20, 2018, 11:05:39 AM »
There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out.

You didn't suggest alternatives; you suggested a false dichotomy (let them all in or lock the children up) and mocked the situation. This was pointed out to you several times.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

And now you're claiming to be the victim. That's rich.

Well you have not offered anything of value. And I did. There are limited alternatives and none of them are appealing. 1. Keep the family together and let them in 2. Keep the family together and turn them away. 3. Separate the family. You missed it. And just because you cannot comprehend, read, or generally disagree, it does not make it a fallacy. Yes, you use that in every post as if to take the higher ground, sound familiar?

What should the President have done with the existing laws? I meant to mock everyone thinking there was some easy fix. There isn't.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2096 on: June 20, 2018, 11:10:26 AM »
We need immigrants in this country, as our birthrate overall is declining.  An overall solution would be great, but will probably need to be one that actually accepts more immigrants, not fewer.

If you're afraid that the US is going to look browner and sound spanishier 25 years from now, your fears will probably be realized, no matter what policies are adopted.  I suggest we open our eyes to the reality of things, and take ownership of how we integrate our new Americans, vs. trying to keep them out.  But that's just me, a "far left" capitalist who wants to make sure we have a healthy, hardworking population not just now but for perpetuity.

I'm not sure what DACA has to do with the current ZT policy, as it only applied to folks who came to the United States without documents before June 15, 2012.

I think there may also be some confusion about what benefits immigrants are entitled to, documented vs. undocumented.  The fear machine on the Right pushes the idea of "Schrodinger's immigrant": A scary (but lazy) brown-skinned guy who simultaneously takes your job and lives off welfare.  Problem is, immigrants aren't eligible for those benefits: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-truth-about-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Agreed completely. Immigration reform is way over due! I just argue that any attempt to accept immigrants should be done with a path to citizenship. Not required citizenship, but at least a path. Some want to come here just to work abroad, some want a better life for their families. Wanting border security does not mean I don't want immigrants.

Right, you agree we need immigrants?  But earlier you mentioned that Trump had a solution for DACA but obstructionists blocked it.  You do realize a big part of the reason it was blocked  was because it slashed legal immigration to rates not seen since the 1920s? (Not mention the ridiculous, expensive and ineffective wall).

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2097 on: June 20, 2018, 11:15:22 AM »
There are limited alternatives and none of them are appealing. 1. Keep the family together and let them in 2. Keep the family together and turn them away. 3. Separate the family.

You should've started with this rather than bringing up "Liberals" and your conspiracy theories and mocking the situation and blaming it on Obama.

Quote
I meant to mock everyone thinking there was some easy fix. There isn't.

Yeah, that's not how it read. To anyone.

Further, no one has suggested immigration is an easy fix. It is indeed a very difficult problem.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2098 on: June 20, 2018, 11:16:05 AM »
There will be no reputable press reporting this as a positive. I can find negative articles all day long. This is a horrible situation but one that will hopefully lead to immigration policy reform that is both moral, and enduring. That is the conversation I have been searching for but keep getting blasted as I go against the left grain. If I say anything other than "Boo Trump", the "you hate children" retort comes out.

You didn't suggest alternatives; you suggested a false dichotomy (let them all in or lock the children up) and mocked the situation. This was pointed out to you several times.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

And now you're claiming to be the victim. That's rich.

Well you have not offered anything of value. And I did. There are limited alternatives and none of them are appealing. 1. Keep the family together and let them in 2. Keep the family together and turn them away. 3. Separate the family. You missed it. And just because you cannot comprehend, read, or generally disagree, it does not make it a fallacy. Yes, you use that in every post as if to take the higher ground, sound familiar?

What should the President have done with the existing laws? I meant to mock everyone thinking there was some easy fix. There isn't.

Trump should work with his party, who holds a majority in both houses of Congress and a majority on the Supreme Court, to draft legislation that solves this.  Doing so will involve some amount of compromise, including on the border wall and the rest of the "Four Pillars."  The real issue is that Trump's policies are farther to the right than even most in the Congress, and are supported by a minority of Americans.  He probably just wouldn't sign anything that is a workable solution, unless he gets a wall with big neon "Trump" signs every 50 ft. 

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #2099 on: June 20, 2018, 11:21:49 AM »
There are limited alternatives and none of them are appealing. 1. Keep the family together and let them in 2. Keep the family together and turn them away. 3. Separate the family.

You should've started with this rather than bringing up "Liberals" and your conspiracy theories and mocking the situation and blaming it on Obama.

Quote
I meant to mock everyone thinking there was some easy fix. There isn't.

Yeah, that's not how it read. To anyone.

Further, no one has suggested immigration is an easy fix. It is indeed a very difficult problem.

There's that straw man again.