Author Topic: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .  (Read 3725 times)

GuitarStv

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So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« on: January 24, 2019, 11:17:13 AM »
Yesterday while at work I got a phone call from our bank, asking me if I had sent an email money transfer to Beata Halabis.  I said that I didn't know anything about it and asked them to stop the transfer.  I logged into my email account and saw two messages indicating that Beata Halabis had accepted 3000$ that I had sent him (her?).

I called back our banks fraud and security division (45 minute wait on hold BTW).  The person I was talking with said that the 3000$ is gone, and that the fraudster must have had my password, account number, and bank card number.  My wife and I share an account, but it was specifically stolen using my card information, not my wife's.  They're doing an investigation, and it sounds as though I'm likely to be refunded the money stolen from me.

I've been trying to figure out how this happened.

I was using a 12 digit password that is a mix of random alphanumeric (capital and lower case) characters and digits.  I have never used this password to access any other website.  I don't ever click on phishing links or give personal information out over the phone and only log in to the bank website after I type their address in the title bar of my browser.  I only do internet banking on my home PC (running windows 10), with up to date updates and virus protection.

Is there something else that I should be doing?

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 11:23:26 AM »
Maybe a card-skimmer?

This is something that they put on ATM's so that it can read your card info as well as your password.
Change your password for the card asap.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-card-skimming-works-960773

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2019, 11:26:06 AM »
Maybe a card-skimmer?

This is something that they put on ATM's so that it can read your card info as well as your password.
Change your password for the card asap.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-card-skimming-works-960773


I've asked the bank to freeze my account while they are issuing me a new card.  My password and PIN has already been reset and will be changed again when I get the new card.  It sounded like the password they were using was for online banking only, not the PIN for the card though.  I'm really struggling to figure out how my information got out there though.

Boofinator

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2019, 11:29:57 AM »
Wow. Do everything right and still get ripped off. I'm interested to hear any theories (or an explanation from the bank) as to how this could have happened.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2019, 11:38:48 AM »
Wow. Do everything right and still get ripped off. I'm interested to hear any theories (or an explanation from the bank) as to how this could have happened.

It has made me wonder if the bank itself may somehow be responsible for the security breach.

I was also kinda wondering why they let irretrievable and suspicious interac email money transfers go out from my account and then contacted me about them, rather than simply hold them up for a few hours first while they check if they're legit or not first.  Seems a bit bass-ackwards.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 11:40:28 AM by GuitarStv »

BicycleB

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2019, 11:41:23 AM »
Have you done a recent virus scan on the device you use to access the account?

I'm leaning towards the bank as the issue. But you never know.

Here's hoping the problem is over...

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2019, 11:42:43 AM »
Have you done a recent virus scan on the device you use to access the account?

I'm leaning towards the bank as the issue. But you never know.

Here's hoping the problem is over...

Yesterday after they called me I turned off Windows Defender (which I had been using) and downloaded Malware Bytes for a full system scan.  Then after it found nothing, I uninstalled it and repeated with BitDefender.  Again, nothing.

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2019, 11:44:40 AM »
That sounds like the bank may be the source of the breach. You may want to let them know that this password has not been used on any other accounts, that the device you use to access the account is clean, and that you haven't had any weird emails/phishing links recently. It's worth it to them to make sure that their security isn't compromised, for sure.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2019, 12:02:14 PM »
It was also weird because, like I said (45 min wait), the fraud prevention guys seemed to be very busy yesterday . . . which makes me wonder if there were many customers effected by similar.  Likely I'll never know.

DenverDad

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2019, 12:55:41 PM »
I've had fraudulent charges on 2 of my credit cards in the last month. After the first time, I set up notifications for every account I own to send me an email notification when funds are leaving the account. The 2nd time it happened, I was in one city when I got an email saying my card was being used in a different city's grocery store. Was a quick call to get that card cancelled, reissued and refund made to the card. It's too easy for this stuff to happen, but at least there are protections in place to not be liable for the charges.

All but 3 of the charges were very innocuous and someone who doesn't monitor their charges closely may very well have missed them. My bank didn't alert me of any suspicious activity in either case. I've had better luck with Chase taking a proactive approach to suspicious charges in the past.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2019, 01:22:54 PM »
If you talk to an IT firm, they can do a dark web scan for your user name and see if it is on there with any of your passwords.  It won't always tell you where it was stolen from but sometimes it will. I wouldn't try doing this yourself though because you don't want to look like you are trying to get that information for nefarious purposes.

Boofinator

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2019, 03:22:28 PM »
Did you check if you've been pwned?

https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

MishMash

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2019, 03:51:53 PM »
what bank?  I have a friend that works exclusively in cyber for things like finding large company vulnerabilities.  He usually can't tell me what it was but he knows who we have accounts with and if he sees something before it becomes public usually hits me up with a change your password NOW.  I can ask him. Also, could be a newer key logger and if you keep blue tooth on, or connect to public wifi it would be easy for someone to upload without you knowing it.

MishMash

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2019, 03:53:52 PM »
and totally get you not wanting to say who it is.  But is it one of the big five, BoA, Citi, Chase, JP, or Wells? and I can ask that.

Wells got hit with a major breach, but that was largely mortgage related.

robartsd

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 04:11:18 PM »
All but 3 of the charges were very innocuous and someone who doesn't monitor their charges closely may very well have missed them. My bank didn't alert me of any suspicious activity in either case. I've had better luck with Chase taking a proactive approach to suspicious charges in the past.
Sometimes there will be a small charge testing the waters before selling the stolen info to be used for a big attempt.

Did you check if you've been pwned?

https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords
Thanks for sharing.

ThatGuy

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 04:25:59 PM »
A coworker and her husband have both had this happen multiple times between the two of them, they have separate accounts.  It's a small bank.  My guess is debit card was how the thieves gained access.  I have had charges on my credit cards but since I very rarely use my debit cards I haven't had any problems with my bank accounts.  One cc was accessed right after I activated it, I never even used it before it was compromised.   

Travis

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 05:44:04 PM »
1. The breach was probably on the bank's end.
2. They'll never own up to it unless they're publicly exposed.
3. They didn't stop your transfer because the basic authentication was there. One transaction among millions is going to get lost in the shuffle and simply paying you back is faster and less expensive than worrying about your security as an individual.  If they know they were breached they'll fix it internally and not tell anyone.

Indio

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2019, 08:35:31 PM »
Ping Brian Krebs at Krebsonsecurity.comvia his web site or Twitter. He’s a former wsj cybersecurity reporter and well connected. Always finds out if it’s a systemic bank issue or may have some advice on what he thinks happened.

marty998

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2019, 08:46:21 PM »
Did you check if you've been pwned?

https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

Not saying you're a bad actor or anything BUT

I go to this legitimate(?) website which may put a cookie or whatever on my laptop, which might have other nefarious software in the cookie that looks for saved usernames in my browser, and then I type in all my passwords to check if I've been pwned (so the these guys now have a record of my passwords)??????

Seriously, criminals could not have come up with a better way of gathering login details if they tried....

the_gastropod

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2019, 09:50:35 PM »
Did you check if you've been pwned?

https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

Not saying you're a bad actor or anything BUT

I go to this legitimate(?) website which may put a cookie or whatever on my laptop, which might have other nefarious software in the cookie that looks for saved usernames in my browser, and then I type in all my passwords to check if I've been pwned (so the these guys now have a record of my passwords)??????

Seriously, criminals could not have come up with a better way of gathering login details if they tried....

Whoa, hey! That’s not how cookies work. And haveibeenpwned is a pretty trusted/authoritative source for checking these things. The 1Password password manager actually relies on haveibeenpwned to nag you to change your password if it’s on that list.

patrickza

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2019, 02:37:57 AM »
+1 on checking your email here: https://haveibeenpwned.com/

And your password here: https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

If you're concerned load your browser in incognito mode. Haveibeenpwned never stores accounts and their passwords together. The just allow the list of emails to be searched, and the list of passwords to be searched. That means the password may have actually been attached to someone else's account, but if it's in the list it would still be a good idea to change it.

I've set up two factor authentication for all my accounts, is this an option with yours?

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2019, 07:53:16 AM »
Did you check if you've been pwned?

https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

So, I figured that since the password is now disabled and will not be used again it is safe to check on that site.  It says that the password which was being used is not found in their database.


and totally get you not wanting to say who it is.  But is it one of the big five, BoA, Citi, Chase, JP, or Wells? and I can ask that.

Wells got hit with a major breach, but that was largely mortgage related.

It's one of the large Canadian banks.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2019, 08:14:11 AM »
Honestly this makes no sense. How would they get your online password?

I'm a cynical guy at times and I wonder if in this case someone called the bank, social engineer their way into your account, and wired out the money. I'm betting the bank is saying it happened another way because the phone representative screwed up the authentication process allowing this to happen, and they'd rather not admit to it.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2019, 08:17:05 AM »
I've set up two factor authentication for all my accounts, is this an option with yours?

As far as I'm aware, this is not an option.

powersuitrecall

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 08:40:52 AM »
I've set up two factor authentication for all my accounts, is this an option with yours?

As far as I'm aware, this is not an option.

Look into this.  2FA should be available for TD, RBC, CIBC, BOM.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2019, 08:44:42 AM »
I've set up two factor authentication for all my accounts, is this an option with yours?

As far as I'm aware, this is not an option.

Look into this.  2FA should be available for TD, RBC, CIBC, BOM.

Interesting.  It turns out that my bank does offer this.  Strange that their security guy didn't mention it while we were talking.

Indexer

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2019, 07:58:43 AM »
I used to work in a bank and I helped clients with several fraud cases while I was there. 

Quote
The person I was talking with said that the 3000$ is gone, and that the fraudster must have had my password, account number, and bank card number.

It's normally one or the other. A fraudster doesn't really need your online credentials and your card information. If they have the card information they can make purchases/transfers with the card. If they have the online credentials they can transfer money to another account, and if they had your online credentials they would also have your account number(that is normally visible online).

Quote
but it was specifically stolen using my card information

They had your card information. This is MUCH easier to get than your online credentials. It's rare for someone to hack into your online banking if you have a strong password and never share or reuse that password. Stealing card numbers on the other hand is very common.

Potential causes ranked in likelihood:

*Skimmer device at a gas station.
*The POS device at a retailer was hacked(like what happened at Target).
*Online retailer was hacked.
*An employee at a retailer/restaurant who swiped your card stole the numbers. Writing them down would be difficult, but oops they dropped your card behind the counter, and then snapped a photo with their phone as they picked it up.
*Someone with physical access to your card, friends/family, wrote down the numbers.

Rasputin

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2019, 10:45:02 AM »
When I saw the title I thought this would be a story about getting robbed in the street then pulling out your semiautomatic pistol and filling up a fool with lead, then, after he’s already dead adding in a few more face shots so his mama can’t have an open casket. Instead, this is a much less gangster thread.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2019, 11:08:48 AM »
When I saw the title I thought this would be a story about getting robbed in the street then pulling out your semiautomatic pistol and filling up a fool with lead, then, after he’s already dead adding in a few more face shots so his mama can’t have an open casket. Instead, this is a much less gangster thread.

This is already pretty exciting for Canadian true crime.

Rasputin

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2019, 11:16:17 AM »
When I saw the title I thought this would be a story about getting robbed in the street then pulling out your semiautomatic pistol and filling up a fool with lead, then, after he’s already dead adding in a few more face shots so his mama can’t have an open casket. Instead, this is a much less gangster thread.

This is already pretty exciting for Canadian true crime.

True. Very true.

austin944

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2019, 01:12:27 PM »

I don't understand why the bank card information is relevant in this case where a fraudulent transfer of bank account funds is directed towards a named individual. I am not aware of any situation where a crook using only a bank card can direct funds from a bank account to a named individual. 

The crook can manufacture a bogus bank card with the fraudulently obtained numbers and PIN, however they can only withdraw funds from an ATM or make fraudulent purchases.  They're not going to be able to login to your online bank account with just your bank card number+PIN.

The bank card number and the bank account number are normally different, and if they were the same, that seems like a potential security problem, and I'm not aware of any bank that does this.

OneCoolCat

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2019, 02:40:17 PM »
Not trying to be technical but a robbery happens by force or under threat of force.  You were a victim of identity theft.

Dabnasty

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2019, 04:22:04 PM »
Not trying to be technical but a robbery happens by force or under threat of force.  You were a victim of identity theft.

That's exactly what you're being :)

This was my first thought about the thread title too, but after consulting the dictionary it looks like "rob" is a synonym for "steal". It has a number of informal uses which are not precise, but would not be incorrect.

robartsd

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2019, 09:13:04 AM »
Not trying to be technical but a robbery happens by force or under threat of force.  You were a victim of identity theft.

That's exactly what you're being :)

This was my first thought about the thread title too, but after consulting the dictionary it looks like "rob" is a synonym for "steal". It has a number of informal uses which are not precise, but would not be incorrect.
Or in the more formal sense, the definition is more precise (but may vary between jurisdictions).

Generally, I don't consider this identity theft. To me identity theft involves opening new lines of credit against your credit report. You don't find out about it until you see the new line on your credit report or have bill collectors after you for the debt that you didn't actually take on.

Dicey

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2019, 04:15:52 PM »
Not trying to be technical but a robbery happens by force or under threat of force.  You were a victim of identity theft.
Yup.

ysette9

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2019, 04:44:21 PM »
Definitely make sure you have two-factor authentication turned on for all of your financial institutions. I would like to think something like this wouldn’t happen with that in place, but I don’t no. I hope you get your money back.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2019, 06:13:37 AM »
Not trying to be technical but a robbery happens by force or under threat of force.  You were a victim of identity theft.
Yup.

The method used to perform the misdeed is as yet unclear (although it may well have been related to identity theft).  As has already been pointed out you are both incorrect regarding the meaning of 'rob':

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rob
to take money or property illegally from a place, organization, or person, often using violence

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rob
to remove valuables without right from (a place)

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rob
to deprive (someone) of some right or something legally due

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/rob
(informal, dialect) Steal.



Definitely make sure you have two-factor authentication turned on for all of your financial institutions. I would like to think something like this wouldn’t happen with that in place, but I don’t no. I hope you get your money back.

Yes, now that I know that our bank supports this I've asked to have it enabled on my account.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 06:15:18 AM by GuitarStv »

Dicey

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2019, 08:50:19 AM »
Not according to the Model Penal Code:

Under the Model Penal Code (MPC), a robbery occurs when, “in the course of committing a theft,” a person inflicts or threatens serious bodily injury on or against “another.” The victim need not have a possessory interest in the property.

Since I live in CA, this is what I looked up before I yupped:

California "Robbery" Laws. ... Penal Code 211 PC reads: “Robbery is the felonious taking of personal property in the possession of another, from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear."

You don't think I would yup without doing the research, do you?

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2019, 09:03:18 AM »
Not according to the Model Penal Code:

Under the Model Penal Code (MPC), a robbery occurs when, “in the course of committing a theft,” a person inflicts or threatens serious bodily injury on or against “another.” The victim need not have a possessory interest in the property.

Since I live in CA, this is what I looked up before I yupped:

California "Robbery" Laws. ... Penal Code 211 PC reads: “Robbery is the felonious taking of personal property in the possession of another, from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear."

You don't think I would yup without doing the research, do you?

What gave you the impression that I was referring to the specific legal definition of robbery under Californian law, or under US specific penal code . . . rather than the common language definition of rob?

If someone says that a tomato is a fruit do you correct them by telling them that they're wrong - under US customs regulations a tomato has been defined as a vegetable?  If so, why?

nereo

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
Not according to the Model Penal Code:

Under the Model Penal Code (MPC), a robbery occurs when, “in the course of committing a theft,” a person inflicts or threatens serious bodily injury on or against “another.” The victim need not have a possessory interest in the property.

Since I live in CA, this is what I looked up before I yupped:

California "Robbery" Laws. ... Penal Code 211 PC reads: “Robbery is the felonious taking of personal property in the possession of another, from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear."

You don't think I would yup without doing the research, do you?

What gave you the impression that I was referring to the specific legal definition of robbery under Californian law, or under US specific penal code . . . rather than the common language definition of rob?

If someone says that a tomato is a fruit do you correct them by telling them that they're wrong - under US customs regulations a tomato has been defined as a vegetable?  If so, why?
Ah, this brings back memories of studying for the Bar...

There's both the vernacular and the legal definitions, if we want to get deep into the weeds.  Safe to say under the vernacular one can say "GuitarStv was robbed!" and most people understand that someone stole something from GuitarStv.

Under common law (which is the underpinning of law throughout Canada, the US and the UK) Robbery, Larceny, Burglary and Theft all have unique definitions.  Under common law GuitarStv was not robbed because the perpetrator did not use force or the threat of force (intimidation), as the taking of assets was done without GuitarStv's knowledge.  As an example, our professor gave the example that if someone grabbed your purse from off the back of your chair and ran before you could react, that would be larceny but not robbery.  If the thief had to pull it off your shoulder, that would be robbery. The latter can carry a stiffer penalty even though the property taken was the same, because it involved force against an individual.

Ergo, GuitarStv was a victim of larceny under common law.
:-P

n. 1) the direct taking of property (including money) from a person (victim) through force, threat or intimidation. Robbery is a felony (crime punishable by a term in state or federal prison). "Armed robbery" involves the use of a gun or other weapon which can do bodily harm, such as a knife or club, and under most state laws carries a stiffer penalty (longer possible term) than robbery by merely taking. 2) a term improperly used to describe thefts, including burglary (breaking and entering) and shoplifting (secret theft from the stock of a store), expressed: "We've been robbed.
"


Blonde Lawyer

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2019, 11:24:28 AM »
LOL.  I had the same thoughts when I read the title but reminded myself that not everyone uses technical legal terms and there are times I should be less of a lawyer.

GuitarStv

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2019, 11:43:17 AM »
Now you're all robbing my pleasure from this thread.

Kris

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2019, 11:45:39 AM »
Now you're all robbing my pleasure from this thread.

Well, technically...

partgypsy

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2019, 11:50:04 AM »
I thought the same thing when I read the title, that you were held up or something. Relieved it was an online stealing of money only. I have no clue how this happened. concerning. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2019, 12:43:16 PM »
Plus "I was robbed" is a more interesting sentence with more impact than "I was stolen from".  Raise a glass to the vernacular.

BicycleB

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2019, 01:23:43 PM »
I am the common man, I contain multitudes. GuitarStv was ROBBED!!!!!!

DenverDad

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2019, 01:57:40 PM »
As a 911 dispatcher, whenever someone stated they were robbed, one of the first followup questions was always some form of "what do you mean you were robbed?" or "tell me exactly what happened." They were almost never robbed, but it does go to show that it is a common universal statement to mean something was stolen.

powersuitrecall

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2019, 02:22:49 PM »


GuitarStv

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nereo

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Re: So, I was robbed yesterday . . .
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2019, 02:39:36 PM »
To be fair, making me watch the Leafs does feel like some sort of crime...