Slide from the middle class

[Cranky]

I have found this discussion very, very upsetting. Ugh.

[OtherJen]

I have found this discussion very, very upsetting. Ugh.

Same here.

[Samuel]

I also can honestly say I rarely see this stuff personally, which in no way means I believe it's not rampant (way too many conversations with female friends and/or partners for that) just that I can't even recall the last time it happened in my presence. Despite being ready and willing to intervene I just don't have many opportunities to do so.

Which hopefully is evidence of at least some progress, when the creeps apparently no longer automatically assume other dudes are on board with their harassment and instead are most likely to engage in it when 1 on 1 or in the presence of known like minded douchebags.

[charis]

I also can honestly say I rarely see this stuff personally, which in no way means I believe it's not rampant (way too many conversations with female friends and/or partners for that) just that I can't even recall the last time it happened in my presence. Despite being ready and willing to intervene I just don't have many opportunities to do so.

Which hopefully is evidence of at least some progress, when the creeps apparently no longer automatically assume other dudes are on board with their harassment and instead are most likely to engage in it when 1 on 1 or in the presence of known like minded douchebags.

Most of the crap that I've had to deal with has taken place outside the presence of other men. For reasons that should be obvious.

[Villanelle]

I also can honestly say I rarely see this stuff personally, which in no way means I believe it's not rampant (way too many conversations with female friends and/or partners for that) just that I can't even recall the last time it happened in my presence. Despite being ready and willing to intervene I just don't have many opportunities to do so.

Which hopefully is evidence of at least some progress, when the creeps apparently no longer automatically assume other dudes are on board with their harassment and instead are most likely to engage in it when 1 on 1 or in the presence of known like minded douchebags.

While appreciate the attempt at optimism... no.  This doesn't mean it is getting better.  I think this kind of behavior has almost always happened outside the view of other men, or when in the presence of known predators and fellow misogynistic a-holes.

It has probably always been the case where men are probably the single biggest threat to women, and also that the presence of men acts as a form of protection.  Except when it doesn't.   I'd explain why that is, but this thread is fucking depressing and I doubt there is much of a point.  (To be clear, that part isn't really targeted at you, Samuel.) 

[Kris]

I also can honestly say I rarely see this stuff personally, which in no way means I believe it's not rampant (way too many conversations with female friends and/or partners for that) just that I can't even recall the last time it happened in my presence. Despite being ready and willing to intervene I just don't have many opportunities to do so.

Which hopefully is evidence of at least some progress, when the creeps apparently no longer automatically assume other dudes are on board with their harassment and instead are most likely to engage in it when 1 on 1 or in the presence of known like minded douchebags.

Unfortunately, no, that does not mean what you think it means. What it means, generally, is that a dude will look at a woman who is with another dude and assume the woman is “his,” therefore off-limits. That is respect for the man, not the woman.

One way to recognize this is to hear from women how many of us have had a dude harass us when we are, e.g., standing alone at a bar, but then the man we are with comes out of the bathroom, and the harasser guy apologizes to the man we are with — not the woman herself — for his behavior.

[CodingHare]

There was a thread on TwoXChromosomes over on Reddit I found enlightening and rather depressing.  A trans woman telling her experience of transitioning at a company.  Only once she had transitioned did she realize her boss was treating her and all of her female coworker's shittily.  She had never once noticed that her boss would dismiss ideas from female teammates until she was suddenly one of the girls and had the stream of misogyny pointed right at her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/tqyvu5/the_time_i_dropped_my_male_privilege_and_it_showed/

A lot of people asked her how she didn't notice, and it was literally just that it had never once effected her personally... until it did.

[Kris]

There was a thread on TwoXChromosomes over on Reddit I found enlightening and rather depressing.  A trans woman telling her experience of transitioning at a company.  Only once she had transitioned did she realize her boss was treating her and all of her female coworker's shittily.  She had never once noticed that her boss would dismiss ideas from female teammates until she was suddenly one of the girls and had the stream of misogyny pointed right at her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/tqyvu5/the_time_i_dropped_my_male_privilege_and_it_showed/

A lot of people asked her how she didn't notice, and it was literally just that it had never once effected her personally... until it did.

Yes, I am in a number of online groups for trans people and allies, and I have seen many, many trans women report these experiences.

[FIRE Artist]

There was a thread on TwoXChromosomes over on Reddit I found enlightening and rather depressing.  A trans woman telling her experience of transitioning at a company.  Only once she had transitioned did she realize her boss was treating her and all of her female coworker's shittily.  She had never once noticed that her boss would dismiss ideas from female teammates until she was suddenly one of the girls and had the stream of misogyny pointed right at her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/tqyvu5/the_time_i_dropped_my_male_privilege_and_it_showed/

A lot of people asked her how she didn't notice, and it was literally just that it had never once effected her personally... until it did.

The sadder thing is that not only did she not notice until it affected her personally, she likely was a perpetrator of it, most men who benefit from their privilege also perpetuate it, unbiased and not.  I think the show Transparent did a good job of having a woman call out the main trans woman character for her past male behaviour in holding back his (then pronoun) female students and colleagues.