Roe vs Wade possibly to be overturned

[Samuel]

Roe was always fairly rickety, legally speaking. I'm kind of surprised it lasted as long as it did. That in 50 years no Federal legislation happened to undergird Roe's precariousness is dismaying.

[CodingHare]

Roe was always fairly rickety, legally speaking. I'm kind of surprised it lasted as long as it did. That in 50 years no Federal legislation happened to undergird Roe's precariousness is dismaying.

I hear a lot of people blaming the Dems for not passing a federal law.  The thing is, there's only been one time in my lifetime the Dem's have had a veto and filibuster proof majority.  They passed the Affordable Care Act then, which improved life for millions of Americans.  And the American people rewarded them by tuning into Fox News and getting mad about Obamacare.  Now they have 50 votes and can't pass anything.

It's just frustrating because people keep saying Democrats never act on their promises, when the system is rigged against them.  A simple majority isn't enough to pass legislation (or the other side will just flip in two years with their simple majority.)  We had a Supreme Court seat stolen from us by Mitch McConnell, which is why this thread exists today.  Trump got to nominate a man accused of sex abuse and a woman who literally said she was put on the court to enforce "God's laws" on the rest of us to decide on Roe v Wade.

This is why people are screaming vote blue no matter who.  Put a blue suit on a dog turd and I'll vote for it.  This is the consequences if you don't.

[PDXTabs]

If I was in a red state, I'd be on a sex strike.  No sex without women's healthcare.  That's just responsible, and totally what men want, right?

They seem to want the 50s back.  An idealized 50s, a time when you had a great life if you white and male.  White and female you were second class*, anything else you were third class.

It will arguably be worse this time around with regard to abortion. NTY: Opinion: An America Without Roe v. Wade Will Be a Dark Place

[Kris]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

[OtherJen]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

[OzzieandHarriet]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

And … how on earth will they define “race”? DNA testing?

[MDM]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

Unless there is a another senator from Indiana who made such a remark, do pass along "the rest of the story" as well: Mike Braun says he "completely misunderstood" when he answered a question by saying interracial marriage should be left to the states to decide. 

[PeteD01]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

And … how on earth will they define “race”? DNA testing?

By wealth.

[RetiredAt63]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

And … how on earth will they define “race”? DNA testing?

Well if they are opening up that can of worms gay marriage will be right there with it.

It boggles my mind how anything but "pure white" is classified as "other".   

Of course "pure white" has been open to discussion, seeing as how Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc. were once totally socially unacceptable.

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

And American "Blacks" are obviously mixed race, just like "Hispanic often is, because of shitty history.  And anyone who had met a person from Africa would see/know the difference (attending a university with a lot of international grad students was very educational). 

A year or two ago I thought discussions of another American Civil War (or less violent split) was poppycock.  Now I am not so sure.  It isn't really that long ago that the newly independent India split up into India and Pakistan, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh did a further split.  And we have had our separatists here in Canada, plus people arguing about who is Metis and who is not.
 
Maybe the US needs a Nelson Mandela?  Because the US looks like it will look like South Africa did 40 years ago.

(Please, why did Trump not build a northern wall?  I mean, wouldn't he have liked to block all us socialist rabble? We would have helped pay for it.  The US is such a depressing neighbour.)

[PDXTabs]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

[nereo]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

yeah, and i had to explain that about 500 times when I worked for the US Census. 

Curiously, of the 7 basic questions we asked “are you of Hispanic origin” was the only ethnicity asked about. We did not ask, for example: are you of Scandinavian origin.

[OtherJen]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

yeah, and i had to explain that about 500 times when I worked for the US Census. 

Curiously, of the 7 basic questions we asked “are you of Hispanic origin” was the only ethnicity asked about. We did not ask, for example: are you of Scandinavian origin.

Yep. I suspect it's because the US government tried to deport is twice in the last century (see: Mexican Repatriation and Operation Wetback).

[Gin1984]

Roe was always fairly rickety, legally speaking. I'm kind of surprised it lasted as long as it did. That in 50 years no Federal legislation happened to undergird Roe's precariousness is dismaying.

I hear a lot of people blaming the Dems for not passing a federal law.  The thing is, there's only been one time in my lifetime the Dem's have had a veto and filibuster proof majority.  They passed the Affordable Care Act then, which improved life for millions of Americans.  And the American people rewarded them by tuning into Fox News and getting mad about Obamacare.  Now they have 50 votes and can't pass anything.

It's just frustrating because people keep saying Democrats never act on their promises, when the system is rigged against them.  A simple majority isn't enough to pass legislation (or the other side will just flip in two years with their simple majority.)  We had a Supreme Court seat stolen from us by Mitch McConnell, which is why this thread exists today.  Trump got to nominate a man accused of sex abuse and a woman who literally said she was put on the court to enforce "God's laws" on the rest of us to decide on Roe v Wade.

This is why people are screaming vote blue no matter who.  Put a blue suit on a dog turd and I'll vote for it.  This is the consequences if you don't.

May I quote you elsewhere?  This is exactly how I feel but much more articulate that I can be.

[GuitarStv]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Is there a question about interracial marriage now?  If so  . . . what exactly is the question?

[PDXTabs]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

yeah, and i had to explain that about 500 times when I worked for the US Census. 

Curiously, of the 7 basic questions we asked “are you of Hispanic origin” was the only ethnicity asked about. We did not ask, for example: are you of Scandinavian origin.

Yep. I suspect it's because the US government tried to deport is twice in the last century (see: Mexican Repatriation and Operation Wetback).

The Mexican Repatriation during the great depression is probably the worst episode in US history that nobody learns in school.

[FIRE Artist]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Is there a question about interracial marriage now?  If so  . . . what exactly is the question?

I don’t believe there is.  Same sex marriage is what they will go after next.

[PDXTabs]

At the very begging of my nightly Marketplace podcast was a segment about How some companies help employees access abortions.

[mastrr]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

[LennStar]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

You mean the teenagers that will be forced to give birth when their bodies are still developing, right?

No, the children that will be hated by their mothers and be told they are the offspring of a criminal and it would be better if they weren't alive.

[Imma]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

yeah, and i had to explain that about 500 times when I worked for the US Census. 

Curiously, of the 7 basic questions we asked “are you of Hispanic origin” was the only ethnicity asked about. We did not ask, for example: are you of Scandinavian origin.

From a European perspective, it's absolutely insane that a government would even ask people about their race and their ethnicity.
One lesson we learned from WWII is that you do not register race or ethnicity anywhere. Back in 1940, when the Germans invaded, they only had to go to city hall and find out which people had registered as a Jew. Ever since, it's been a complete taboo to even mention that. And rightly so. I'm always so amazed when I read American news outlets and there'll be a police report that a "30 year old Black male has been taken into custody" and the whole idea of mentioning the skin colour of the person arrested is just insane to me. Race is a concept that doesn't even exist here, we only think in terms of ethnicity. And even that is legally information that in almost all circumstances can't be registered at all.

[LonerMatt]

It seems that the US political and legislative system is structured in a way that favours conservatism through making change and government action pass a massive threshold. This restricts popular action to limit threats and changes made by bad faith cynics, aggressive minority positions, sexist fuckwits and religious psychopaths.

[Morning Glory]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

And … how on earth will they define “race”? DNA testing?

Well if they are opening up that can of worms gay marriage will be right there with it.

It boggles my mind how anything but "pure white" is classified as "other".   

Of course "pure white" has been open to discussion, seeing as how Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc. were once totally socially unacceptable.

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

And American "Blacks" are obviously mixed race, just like "Hispanic often is, because of shitty history.  And anyone who had met a person from Africa would see/know the difference (attending a university with a lot of international grad students was very educational). 

A year or two ago I thought discussions of another American Civil War (or less violent split) was poppycock.  Now I am not so sure.  It isn't really that long ago that the newly independent India split up into India and Pakistan, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh did a further split.  And we have had our separatists here in Canada, plus people arguing about who is Metis and who is not.
 
Maybe the US needs a Nelson Mandela?  Because the US looks like it will look like South Africa did 40 years ago.

(Please, why did Trump not build a northern wall?  I mean, wouldn't he have liked to block all us socialist rabble? We would have helped pay for it.  The US is such a depressing neighbour.)

Maybe if enough US women come over as refugees it will make bad publicity for the Republicans.  Yep, women refugees to Canada, just like in the Handmaid's tale.

[Morning Glory]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Is there a question about interracial marriage now?  If so  . . . what exactly is the question?

I don’t believe there is.  Same sex marriage is what they will go after next.

The next logical step would be to go after our ability to withdraw life support on seriously ill/ dying people ("life is sacred", after all), while at the same time refusing to fund their ongoing care.

[partgypsy]

A senator from Indiana just suggested that the question of interracial marriage should be “left to the states.”

Hey conservatives?

FUCK. YOU.

Seriously.

I need to find this and send it to husband's friend, who is a white man married to a black woman and an enthusiastic Trump supporter, Fox News devotee, and far-right conservative. Michigan is a rosy shade of purple; leaving this to the states could invalidate both his marriage and my parents' 51-year marriage (depending on how Latinos are classified; my father isn't white).

Fuck anyone who believes that any of this is okay.

And … how on earth will they define “race”? DNA testing?

Well if they are opening up that can of worms gay marriage will be right there with it.

It boggles my mind how anything but "pure white" is classified as "other".   

Of course "pure white" has been open to discussion, seeing as how Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc. were once totally socially unacceptable.

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

And American "Blacks" are obviously mixed race, just like "Hispanic often is, because of shitty history.  And anyone who had met a person from Africa would see/know the difference (attending a university with a lot of international grad students was very educational). 

A year or two ago I thought discussions of another American Civil War (or less violent split) was poppycock.  Now I am not so sure.  It isn't really that long ago that the newly independent India split up into India and Pakistan, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh did a further split.  And we have had our separatists here in Canada, plus people arguing about who is Metis and who is not.
 
Maybe the US needs a Nelson Mandela?  Because the US looks like it will look like South Africa did 40 years ago.

(Please, why did Trump not build a northern wall?  I mean, wouldn't he have liked to block all us socialist rabble? We would have helped pay for it.  The US is such a depressing neighbour.)

Maybe if enough US women come over as refugees it will make bad publicity for the Republicans.  Yep, women refugees to Canada, just like in the Handmaid's tale. 

I know there are some people every other election, who threaten to move to Canada depending on who is elected. This is the first time in my voting life I feel truly unwelcome in my own country. And that retirement may involve relocating so that my daughter's have a chance at a better quality of life. If a woman doesn't have control of her reproductive choices, she doesn't have control of her life.

[jim555]

Just move to New York, Washington or California.  A lot easier than changing countries. 

[former player]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

[RetiredAt63]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

That is just plain weird.  So cultulral more than ethnic, but really?  Why?  I mean, we get a fair number of immigrants from Caribbean countries but we don't ask if they are Hispanic or not. 

I remember reading some fuss about the actor who played Poe Dameron (?) in one of the Star Wars movies and I was thinking Huh?  He wasn't fish-belly white (a joke description in Irish Dancing circles, where so many of the dancers are super pale), but he was sort of generic "white" to me.  Did it really matter where some of his ancestors came from?  Apparently yes.

The US seems to work really hard at setting up all sorts of categories to divide people.

[jrhampt]

Just move to New York, Washington or California.  A lot easier than changing countries.

Or Connecticut: https://www.courant.com/politics/hc-pol-abortion-clarifying-breakdown-20220503-qcndqq4m4bcu5fjrhc34udos5q-story.html
https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS98/rpt/olr/htm/98-R-1132.htm

"SUMMARY

Connecticut is one of four states that have enacted declarations affirmatively protecting a woman's right to choose an abortion. Twenty-two states have passed laws prohibiting the use of certain abortion procedures. These are known as “partial birth abortion” laws. Such laws are the subject of court challenges in a number of these states. Connecticut does not have such a law.

Nineteen states have mandatory waiting periods prohibiting a woman from obtaining an abortion until a certain time period passes. Connecticut does not have this.

Thirty states, including Connecticut, have laws generally requiring that women receive state-mandated information and materials concerning fetal development, prenatal care, and other related information.

Thirty-nine states prohibit minors from obtaining abortions without parental consent or notice. While Connecticut does not have such a law, it does require a minor to receive counseling, before getting an abortion, that includes discussion of the possibility of consulting her parents.

Four states have laws requiring physicians to perform tests to determine viability in certain circumstances. Connecticut does not.

Finally, forty states, Connecticut among them, specifically prohibit abortion after viability under specified circumstances."

[GuitarStv]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

That one's easy!

The Supreme Court of the United States is made up of far right conservatives (how it will most likely stay for the majority of the rest of our lifetimes) . . . and they're the highest voice in the land on legal matters.  They have decided to ignore any inconvenient any facts that contradict their socially conservative agenda.  So if they say it's not involuntary servitude - it's not!  The end.

[Just Joe]

If/when the Supreme Court officially overturns Roe v. Wade, abortion will default to the state level as enumerated in the 9th and 10th amendments. New York, California and many other Democratic controlled states will allow abortions while Wyoming, Utah, and other Republican controlled states will likely ban it entirely. Other states will fall somewhere in that spectrum.

Perhaps these companies will need to send employees for "training" in NY State or CA...

Good grief, the past decade or two defy belief...

[former player]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

That one's easy!

The Supreme Court of the United States is made up of far right conservatives (how it will most likely stay for the majority of the rest of our lifetimes) . . . and they're the highest voice in the land on legal matters.  They have decided to ignore any inconvenient any facts that contradict their socially conservative agenda.  So if they say it's not involuntary servitude - it's not!  The end.

Have they actually said that it's not?  Or has the Roe v Wade reliance on the 14th Amendment mean that the point hasn't been litigated yet?

[LaineyAZ]

Interestingly, the state of Arizona has an express right to privacy in its state constitution.  So even though the bare-majority Republican legislature and governor have passed laws enacting restrictions, I'm curious to see if anyone in AZ will challenge an absolute ban. 

And now that Mexico has allowed abortion (at least in one northern area) I can also see their medical tourism increase.  They already provide cheaper prescription drugs to busloads of seniors who make regular visits, and now I'm sure those buses will also include some women seeking an abortion. 

And the auntienetwork is another place to find helpers.  I'd seriously consider opening my home and being a driver back and forth to Mexico if it comes to that.

[mastrr]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

You mean the teenagers that will be forced to give birth when their bodies are still developing, right?

May He have mercy on them as well.

[OtherJen]

If/when the Supreme Court officially overturns Roe v. Wade, abortion will default to the state level as enumerated in the 9th and 10th amendments. New York, California and many other Democratic controlled states will allow abortions while Wyoming, Utah, and other Republican controlled states will likely ban it entirely. Other states will fall somewhere in that spectrum.

Perhaps these companies will need to send employees for "training" in NY State or CA...

Good grief, the past decade or two defy belief...

None of this should be surprising. The right-wing has been moving toward this for the last 40 years. Roe v. Wade is only the start of this phase. Expect challenges to LGBTQ rights, protections against racial, ethnic, and minority religious bias, Title IX, and other women's rights. The Equal Rights Amendment still hasn't been ratified after what, 50 years?

[Sibley]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

You mean the teenagers that will be forced to give birth when their bodies are still developing, right?

May He have mercy on them as well.

@mastrr I'd like a clear opinion from you please, no ambiguity. Do you believe that abortion should be legal or illegal?

[EvenSteven]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

You mean the teenagers that will be forced to give birth when their bodies are still developing, right?

May He have mercy on them as well.

Mastrr, in a dark alley on a rainy night, steps into the light provided by a flickering street light. The light flickers off the metal studs in their leather jacket. Holding a gun to a teenage girl's head, they take their toothpick out of their mouth and ask, "Anything to say for yourself?"

The girl, on her knees and trembling, yells, "Please! Have mercy!"

Mastrr lowers their black sunglasses and replies calmly, "Mercy is for God to deliver, not me."

BANG!!

[GuitarStv]

Of course, the biblically supported solution for abortion is for pregnant women to get into more fights.

“When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.” - Exodus 21:22

As long as the husband doesn't complain, a person who injures a pregnant woman enough to miscarry through fisticuffs should be subject to no penalty.  But I mean . . . that's only if those pro-lifer's are interested in the word of God.

[nereo]

And "Hispanic"?  I had to look that one up.  Because technically Hispanic is Spanish, which is European, so how did it not come under "white"?

Not to get too far off topic in off topic, today at least hispanic is defined as an ethnicity, not a race. US Census: About the Hispanic Population and its Origin. So you can be any different race and either hispanic or non-hispanic.

That is just plain weird.  So cultulral more than ethnic, but really?  Why?  I mean, we get a fair number of immigrants from Caribbean countries but we don't ask if they are Hispanic or not. 

Well, a couple of reasons, none of them terrible good.  First, in the 1940s a whole bunch of people from Germany/Austria/Hungry escaped to central and south-americas countries and did a halfway decent job of integrating, creating an entire sub-population of blond-haired, blue-eyed kids who consider themselves culturally hispanic. Then of course there's been the last several decades of scape-goating central american migrants as the source of our woes ("build that wall!").  It was Asians before that and the Irish before that... same story, different group to target.

[partgypsy]

I feel like an idiot but I have not been politically active in awhile (life). I have limited additional energy, funds to help. Other than researching and voting for candidates of my choice, What is most efficient, cost effective things to do politically?

[Kris]

Lord have mercy on the little innocent babies.

You mean the teenagers that will be forced to give birth when their bodies are still developing, right?

May He have mercy on them as well.

@mastrr I'd like a clear opinion from you please, no ambiguity. Do you believe that abortion should be legal or illegal?

[Sibley]

I feel like an idiot but I have not been politically active in awhile (life). I have limited additional energy, funds to help. Other than researching and boring for candidates of my choice, What is most efficient, cost effective things to do politically?

I have absolutely no idea. Because you know, we did vote. And we were active. And on and on... and look where we are now. So short of a civil war, I don't know. And a civil war isn't a good idea either. How do you convince people to care about the lives of people they don't know? I don't know.

Some of them figured out covid was serious after enough of their friends and family died or were disabled. Maybe their wives and daughters dying from botched abortions will do the same. But for very obvious reasons, that isn't a good approach.

[Michael in ABQ]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

By that logic, all parents are involuntary servants. When parents kill their children, or they die from abuse or neglect they go to jail because we recognize it as a heinous crime. But somehow, it's all perfectly fine if that same child isn't wanted and it happens out of sight behind closed doors in an abortion clinic.

[jrhampt]

I feel like an idiot but I have not been politically active in awhile (life). I have limited additional energy, funds to help. Other than researching and boring for candidates of my choice, What is most efficient, cost effective things to do politically?

I have absolutely no idea. Because you know, we did vote. And we were active. And on and on... and look where we are now. So short of a civil war, I don't know. And a civil war isn't a good idea either. How do you convince people to care about the lives of people they don't know? I don't know.

Some of them figured out covid was serious after enough of their friends and family died or were disabled. Maybe their wives and daughters dying from botched abortions will do the same. But for very obvious reasons, that isn't a good approach.

The problem is that it's too late now, at least at the federal level, and it's too late for many women who will be affected by this.  It was too late in 2016 when Trump won the election after lots of liberals were convinced to sit out the election in protest or - worse - vote for Trump because they just didn't like Hillary, or her emails, or Trump and Hillary were basically the same, or whatever.  Elections have consequences.

The best we can do is show up for EVERY SINGLE local election and vote for pro-choice candidates because if the state legislatures are Republican-controlled, they will pass anti-choice legislation.

[Michael in ABQ]

Of course, the biblically supported solution for abortion is for pregnant women to get into more fights.

“When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.” - Exodus 21:22

As long as the husband doesn't complain, a person who injures a pregnant woman enough to miscarry through fisticuffs should be subject to no penalty.  But I mean . . . that's only if those pro-lifer's are interested in the word of God.

That's quite a stretch of that reading. I interpret it as recognizing that causing a miscarriage (i.e. killing an unborn person) is a crime and there is a penalty associated with it. Which is something many states in the US have also ruled as a crime. If you kill a pregnant woman you can be charged with two counts of murder because you're killing two people.

[GuitarStv]

Of course, the biblically supported solution for abortion is for pregnant women to get into more fights.

“When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.” - Exodus 21:22

As long as the husband doesn't complain, a person who injures a pregnant woman enough to miscarry through fisticuffs should be subject to no penalty.  But I mean . . . that's only if those pro-lifer's are interested in the word of God.

That's quite a stretch of that reading. I interpret it as recognizing that causing a miscarriage (i.e. killing an unborn person) is a crime and there is a penalty associated with it. Which is something many states in the US have also ruled as a crime. If you kill a pregnant woman you can be charged with two counts of murder because you're killing two people.

It explicitly says that there's only a fine if the husband complains . . . no complaint, no crime.

[CodingHare]

Roe was always fairly rickety, legally speaking. I'm kind of surprised it lasted as long as it did. That in 50 years no Federal legislation happened to undergird Roe's precariousness is dismaying.

I hear a lot of people blaming the Dems for not passing a federal law.  The thing is, there's only been one time in my lifetime the Dem's have had a veto and filibuster proof majority.  They passed the Affordable Care Act then, which improved life for millions of Americans.  And the American people rewarded them by tuning into Fox News and getting mad about Obamacare.  Now they have 50 votes and can't pass anything.

It's just frustrating because people keep saying Democrats never act on their promises, when the system is rigged against them.  A simple majority isn't enough to pass legislation (or the other side will just flip in two years with their simple majority.)  We had a Supreme Court seat stolen from us by Mitch McConnell, which is why this thread exists today.  Trump got to nominate a man accused of sex abuse and a woman who literally said she was put on the court to enforce "God's laws" on the rest of us to decide on Roe v Wade.

This is why people are screaming vote blue no matter who.  Put a blue suit on a dog turd and I'll vote for it.  This is the consequences if you don't.

May I quote you elsewhere?  This is exactly how I feel but much more articulate that I can be.

Feel free to!  And thanks.  I've been ruminating a lot on this over the last couple of days.

Well, I spent yesterday feeling depressed, but today I just feel grim and angry.  Going to look into getting an IUD.  Most of the 1% failure rate on those are for ectopic pregnancies, which hopefully you will still be able to get care for given the whole fatal to the uterus bearer thing.  If Roe falls and the Senate flips, I want to be prepared for the worst.  And my budget now has room for a monthly donation to Planned Parenthood.

There's also starting to be talk about a Mother's Day Protest.  I'm weighing going out to the streets.  My particular Senators are pro-choice, but I will drop them a note asking them to hold the line.

The funny thing is, I used to consider giving motherhood a shot.  But the complete lack of support for parents in the country and the sheer expense of a child changed my mind.  Removing my ability to choose just reinforces that this is a terrible country to bring children into.

Since the "Biblical position" on abortion has been brought up...

I give zero fucks about what the bible says.  People quote it like it will change the mind of people who believe in it.  The fact is, the bible doesn't determine the beliefs of people.  They come in with a belief and Roshach blot the Bible to fit.  That's why you have everything from women lesbian pastors to male only head of the house to whatever today's splinter faction of Baptist is.   I feel like it gives the bible completely unwarranted authority when we try to use it as a gotcha to change people's beliefs.  This is a book that gives you advice on how to keep your slaves.

The bible is irrelevant to a secular societies lawmaking.

[nereo]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

By that logic, all parents are involuntary servants. When parents kill their children, or they die from abuse or neglect they go to jail because we recognize it as a heinous crime. But somehow, it's all perfectly fine if that same child isn't wanted and it happens out of sight behind closed doors in an abortion clinic.

The entire fault with this logic is that it relies entirely on defining all life stages post-conception as "a child", regardless of biology, viability and circumstance. That's an enormous leap to make on theology alone, and might explain why even a majority of catholics in the US support abortion in its current form.

[GuitarStv]

The bible is irrelevant to a secular societies lawmaking.

This is certainly true when a society is secular.  :P

The US is very much a society governed by Christianity.  That's why it's to date been impossible to be elected president without declaring adherence to the Christian faith.  That's also why abortion is any kind of debate at all.  The vast majority of opposition directly comes from religion.

[OtherJen]

The funny thing is, I used to consider giving motherhood a shot.  But the complete lack of support for parents in the country and the sheer expense of a child changed my mind.  Removing my ability to choose just reinforces that this is a terrible country to bring children into.

Since the "Biblical position" on abortion has been brought up...

I give zero fucks about what the bible says.  People quote it like it will change the mind of people who believe in it.  The fact is, the bible doesn't determine the beliefs of people.  They come in with a belief and Roshach blot the Bible to fit.  That's why you have everything from women lesbian pastors to male only head of the house to whatever today's splinter faction of Baptist is.   I feel like it gives the bible completely unwarranted authority when we try to use it as a gotcha to change people's beliefs.  This is a book that gives you advice on how to keep your slaves.

The bible is irrelevant to a secular societies lawmaking.

All of this. The bible is a book of mythology, philosophy, and historical records. It makes no sense to me why we should be expected to base our legal system on the bible. Why not the mythology of the ancient Greeks, as we already claim them as the inspiration for our system of governance?

The idea of having a child in this country has never been appealing. There's so little community or even family support in most cases.

[former player]

Can someone who knows more about US Constitutional law than me explain how forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus isn't "involuntary servitude" and banned by the 13th Amendment?

No "State's rights" for the 13th Amendment, I think.

By that logic, all parents are involuntary servants. When parents kill their children, or they die from abuse or neglect they go to jail because we recognize it as a heinous crime. But somehow, it's all perfectly fine if that same child isn't wanted and it happens out of sight behind closed doors in an abortion clinic.

The entire fault with this logic is that it relies entirely on defining all life stages post-conception as "a child", regardless of biology, viability and circumstance. That's an enormous leap to make on theology alone, and might explain why even a majority of catholics in the US support abortion in its current form.

And apart from that it ignores the word "involuntary".  Voluntary servant to a post-conception minnow/foetus/child is fine by me and the USA Constitution.  Involuntary servant is a slave by any other name.