Man, it's really a shame how racist Roald Dahl was. I still love his books and have been reading them to my kids but there's always a nagging feeling that I shouldn't be enjoying the Oompa Loompas and stuff.
For example, a few years ago I heard about some school somewhere in the South that served watermelon and fried chicken one day, and people were up in arms because that was somehow racially stereotyping. I was completely confused! Watermelon: yummy, healthy. Fried chicken: yummy, unhealthy. Zero racial connotations whatsoever.
The most well-known example is the original depiction of the Oompa-Loompas in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." The first edition of the book described them as dark-skinned pygmies from Africa who let out warlike chants. This brought about accusations of racism from the NAACP and other groups. Mel Stuart, director of the 1971 film "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory," knew Dahl's description was offensive and depicted the Oompa-Loompas as the orange and green elf-like creatures we are familiar with.
Shortly after that, Dahl apologized publicly for the misunderstanding, saying he never meant to appear racist, and changed the description of the characters in the book to "rosy-white dwarves."
Hmmm, have you re-read the TinTin comics lately?
Maybe we should gather all the books up and burn them since they don't fit within the current social justice climate. We can't have these ideas being passed down to the children.Only if I get to wear my new black leather boots and Hugo Boss costume while we do it. And shout in German!! I find shouting in German really helps with the ambiance when you are burning books. I do not know what it is but a nice big bonfire and loud german shouting, it just feels right, you know?
Maybe we should gather all the books up and burn them since they don't fit within the current social justice climate. We can't have these ideas being passed down to the children.
Further, art should be detached from the individual. Appreciating the art isn't condoning every attribute to the person. Judging someone based on today's and tomorrow's morals is exhausting. There are great people and great art that are a product of their time and deserve to be appreciated.Agree completely! I do not care how the person thinks or hell, even acts in his personal life. If he/she writes a great book, sings a great song or acts really good I am going to enjoy that book/song/movie ... If that person turns out to be a racist, pedofilie, nazi, ... don't care one iota...
Hmmm, have you re-read the TinTin comics lately?
I haven't lately. I have within the last couple of years. Yes, Herge presents some clear examples of racist colonialist attitudes. I don't know that that has any relevance to a discussion of Roald Dahl or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
It's him as a person, not his books.Man, it's really a shame how racist Roald Dahl was. I still love his books and have been reading them to my kids but there's always a nagging feeling that I shouldn't be enjoying the Oompa Loompas and stuff.Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never seen his (children's) books to be racist.
And he made no attempt to hide his anti-Semitism. In 1983, he announced in the New Statesman that Hitler had his reasons for exterminating six million men, women and children. “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity”, he said. “I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
Hmmm, have you re-read the TinTin comics lately?
I haven't lately. I have within the last couple of years. Yes, Herge presents some clear examples of racist colonialist attitudes. I don't know that that has any relevance to a discussion of Roald Dahl or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
+1It's him as a person, not his books.Man, it's really a shame how racist Roald Dahl was. I still love his books and have been reading them to my kids but there's always a nagging feeling that I shouldn't be enjoying the Oompa Loompas and stuff.Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never seen his (children's) books to be racist.
I surely don't have any first-hand knowledge, but a quick google'ing brings up a reputable (BBC (http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl)) hit with an on-topic quote:Quote from: BBCAnd he made no attempt to hide his anti-Semitism. In 1983, he announced in the New Statesman that Hitler had his reasons for exterminating six million men, women and children. “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity”, he said. “I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
Personally, I agree with caffeine (and it seems also the author of that BBC article) that "art should be detached from the individual" .... usually. I'm willing to do it in this case, and will continue to have fond memories of the books.
+1It's him as a person, not his books.Man, it's really a shame how racist Roald Dahl was. I still love his books and have been reading them to my kids but there's always a nagging feeling that I shouldn't be enjoying the Oompa Loompas and stuff.Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never seen his (children's) books to be racist.
I surely don't have any first-hand knowledge, but a quick google'ing brings up a reputable (BBC (http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl)) hit with an on-topic quote:Quote from: BBCAnd he made no attempt to hide his anti-Semitism. In 1983, he announced in the New Statesman that Hitler had his reasons for exterminating six million men, women and children. “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity”, he said. “I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
Personally, I agree with caffeine (and it seems also the author of that BBC article) that "art should be detached from the individual" .... usually. I'm willing to do it in this case, and will continue to have fond memories of the books.
He was an outspoken Anti-Semite, which I think goes beyond the 'attitudes and opinions of his time'.
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As a person of Indian (dot, not feather) descent, ...LOL that one took me a moment to grok...
Orson Scott Card is openly homophobic to the Nth degree, and he made more than a few nutcase statements regarding the Obama administration as well (the one that springs to mind is the dead serious Hitler comparison). Even in his fiction he's gotten into WTF territory a few times. I actually liked the Ender's Game and then Shadow series, but he's on the list of 'author's whose books I will only get from the library/buy used'...it's not much, but it's a few pennies that don't go to support that kind of thing.
I didn't grok it until much much later, but in The Witches, a book I loved as a kiddo, the witches are not-so-thinly-veiled anti-Semitic caricatures . Adult me is pretty appalled. I don't think that means I can't still love the story, but it does mean that if I introduce to book to my honorary niece, I would want to do my homework first on how to have a conversation with her about it.I must be simply blind to/ignorant of this kind of thing--we recently read this book with our kids, and I never noticed anything that I would interpret as anti-any-sort-of-group (well, except for witches). And in fact, I don't *want* to know what about that book comes across as anti-semitic, because that would only serve to spread the stereotypes that perpetuate bias.
I didn't grok it until much much later, but in The Witches, a book I loved as a kiddo, the witches are not-so-thinly-veiled anti-Semitic caricatures . Adult me is pretty appalled. I don't think that means I can't still love the story, but it does mean that if I introduce to book to my honorary niece, I would want to do my homework first on how to have a conversation with her about it.I must be simply blind to/ignorant of this kind of thing--we recently read this book with our kids, and I never noticed anything that I would interpret as anti-any-sort-of-group (well, except for witches). And in fact, I don't *want* to know what about that book comes across as anti-semitic, because that would only serve to spread the stereotypes that perpetuate bias.
I guess what I'm envisioning is this: I grew up without being inculcated in all the stereotypes (watermelon and fried chicken during black history month? something something witches anti-semitism?) or hearing that various words or phrases are tied to slavery or racism (e.g. the phrase "cotton-picking" as in "wait one cotton-picking minute!", or the various "sch-" words that originated as anti-Jewish). I grew up only knowing them as good food or colorful phrases with no sinister meaning.I didn't grok it until much much later, but in The Witches, a book I loved as a kiddo, the witches are not-so-thinly-veiled anti-Semitic caricatures . Adult me is pretty appalled. I don't think that means I can't still love the story, but it does mean that if I introduce to book to my honorary niece, I would want to do my homework first on how to have a conversation with her about it.I must be simply blind to/ignorant of this kind of thing--we recently read this book with our kids, and I never noticed anything that I would interpret as anti-any-sort-of-group (well, except for witches). And in fact, I don't *want* to know what about that book comes across as anti-semitic, because that would only serve to spread the stereotypes that perpetuate bias.
I don't agree with your reasoning. The stereotypes exist, and in my experience, it's difficult to a) recognize when others are using them and b) avoid perpetuating them unless you know what they are. But that's neither here nor there.
Most of the criticism of Hergé's Tintin is really about the first two books. It's the depiction of Congolese blacks, and American red skins that pisses people off. The other books are devoid of racial stereotype, except maybe here and there when Tintin is in the Middle East. They're great stories, and I hope my kids read them.I grew up watching videos in primary/elementary school in the late 80s/early 90s about pygmies in the Congo. And we saw a lot of villagers on school trips to rural areas that were like the NatGeo covers of naked tribes.
I guess what I'm envisioning is this: I grew up without being inculcated in all the stereotypes (watermelon and fried chicken during black history month? something something witches anti-semitism?) or hearing that various words or phrases are tied to slavery or racism (e.g. the phrase "cotton-picking" as in "wait one cotton-picking minute!", or the various "sch-" words that originated as anti-Jewish). I grew up only knowing them as good food or colorful phrases with no sinister meaning.I didn't grok it until much much later, but in The Witches, a book I loved as a kiddo, the witches are not-so-thinly-veiled anti-Semitic caricatures . Adult me is pretty appalled. I don't think that means I can't still love the story, but it does mean that if I introduce to book to my honorary niece, I would want to do my homework first on how to have a conversation with her about it.I must be simply blind to/ignorant of this kind of thing--we recently read this book with our kids, and I never noticed anything that I would interpret as anti-any-sort-of-group (well, except for witches). And in fact, I don't *want* to know what about that book comes across as anti-semitic, because that would only serve to spread the stereotypes that perpetuate bias.
I don't agree with your reasoning. The stereotypes exist, and in my experience, it's difficult to a) recognize when others are using them and b) avoid perpetuating them unless you know what they are. But that's neither here nor there.
Likewise, our kids will grow up (hopefully) without having that negative mental association between a phrase and a specific group. In other words, my argument is that by not calling out the racist/bigoted origins of certain things, those phrases and stereotypes eventually lose their bigoted power.
I'm reminded of the story of Stetson Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stetson_Kennedy), who infiltrated the KKK, then leaked all their innermost secrets to the writers of Superman, thus trivializing the very things that Klansmen considered so potent.
If you're going to have issues with books because of the author, then you've got a huge problem with Ender's Game. Orson Scott Card is pretty darn awful and weird from what I can tell.I could not. It was required for school and it remains the ONLY book I have not finished. I hated that book with a passion and still do.
I don't remember much of Dahl's books. Given when he lived, of course he was prejudiced/racist/whatever, that was the norm of his era. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy his books.
I prefer to disregard the artist/author and go with the art/book. Just because a book has some negative quality in full view doesn't mean it isn't valuable. I love Little Women, and many of the other books Alcott wrote. I was frustrated and constantly rolled my eyes as a child because of the strict gender based roles, etc. It is possible to read a book that has the oppression of women as an assumed part of how the world works and come away with a feeling that the world shouldn't work that way, and still love the story.
Most of the criticism of Hergé's Tintin is really about the first two books. It's the depiction of Congolese blacks, and American red skins that pisses people off. The other books are devoid of racial stereotype, except maybe here and there when Tintin is in the Middle East. They're great stories, and I hope my kids read them.I grew up watching videos in primary/elementary school in the late 80s/early 90s about pygmies in the Congo. And we saw a lot of villagers on school trips to rural areas that were like the NatGeo covers of naked tribes.
The Congolese blacks depiction, to 10 year me, was what I saw in documentaries. And textbook descriptions. So Herge wasn't the only one. The Kenyan school book publishers were doing the same. Or were they plagiarising from Monsieur Herge?
And the stuff about Middle Eastern countries? That shit is still the same in those places. Some people haven't changed their ways.