Author Topic: R.I.P. Boarder42  (Read 16949 times)

RWD

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #150 on: November 07, 2018, 01:59:57 PM »
Well I tried to PM him to thank him for a recent credit card referral offer he suggested and couldn't even PM him. I guess banning him means we can't even communicate with him. Sad, because I know of no other way to get in touch with him.

I just did some searching and am pretty sure I found him on a wakeboarding forum. The username I found was also used here on the MMM forums before boarder42's account was created and had a similar writing style and admonishment of prepaying mortgages. Unfortunately the main forum I found him on is blocked at work for "malicious web reputation". So venture there at your own risk.

steveo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #151 on: November 09, 2018, 04:21:31 AM »
The advice being pushed as 'always correct' wasn't if you happen to live in a country other than the US.  It was certainly frustrating to see country specific advice constantly dogmatically given out over and over without acknowledgement of that fact.

I'm Australian and his advice didn't really make any sense to me. It still doesn't. I suppose to be fair you could make the argument that paying down your mortgage doesn't make financial sense when there is a raging bull market but it's far from a clear cut decision if you are Australian.

Still I don't believe in banning people because as you state if can end up an echo chamber. Different points of view are good.

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #152 on: November 09, 2018, 05:02:16 AM »
The advice being pushed as 'always correct' wasn't if you happen to live in a country other than the US.  It was certainly frustrating to see country specific advice constantly dogmatically given out over and over without acknowledgement of that fact.

I'm Australian and his advice didn't really make any sense to me. It still doesn't. I suppose to be fair you could make the argument that paying down your mortgage doesn't make financial sense when there is a raging bull market but it's far from a clear cut decision if you are Australian.

Still I don't believe in banning people because as you state if can end up an echo chamber. Different points of view are good.

Yes, his advice applied to people in the US, where we have 30 year mortgages which are fixed for the duration of the mortgage. I'm not certain about Australia but I know that kind of mortgage is unavailable in most of the world.  In Canada the longest term one can usually get is 25 years, and typically your rate is fixed for a period of 2 to 5 years (i.e. it functions like what we in the US would call an ARM).

B42 wasn't banned for his opinions on mortgage payoff, he was banned for violating the forum rules repeatedly.  I'm sad he's gone and would like it if the mods reinstated him for 'time-served' but everyone must follow the rules.

Hula Hoop

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #153 on: November 09, 2018, 06:04:58 AM »
The advice being pushed as 'always correct' wasn't if you happen to live in a country other than the US.  It was certainly frustrating to see country specific advice constantly dogmatically given out over and over without acknowledgement of that fact.

I'm Australian and his advice didn't really make any sense to me. It still doesn't. I suppose to be fair you could make the argument that paying down your mortgage doesn't make financial sense when there is a raging bull market but it's far from a clear cut decision if you are Australian.

Still I don't believe in banning people because as you state if can end up an echo chamber. Different points of view are good.

Yes, his advice applied to people in the US, where we have 30 year mortgages which are fixed for the duration of the mortgage. I'm not certain about Australia but I know that kind of mortgage is unavailable in most of the world.  In Canada the longest term one can usually get is 25 years, and typically your rate is fixed for a period of 2 to 5 years (i.e. it functions like what we in the US would call an ARM).

B42 wasn't banned for his opinions on mortgage payoff, he was banned for violating the forum rules repeatedly.  I'm sad he's gone and would like it if the mods reinstated him for 'time-served' but everyone must follow the rules.

We have a 20 year mortgage fixed at less than 2% here in Italy.  The advice to pay back your mortgage early ESPECIALLY doesn't make sense for us - even more so than for Americans where fixed mortgage rates tend to be higher.  No idea about other parts of Europe and/or the world.  Anyway I wouldn't make generalizations about the rest of the world apart from the US - the world is a big, diverse place.

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #154 on: November 09, 2018, 07:00:56 AM »
sub 2%, wow!  And I thought 3.1% fixed was low...
Yes, making generalizations about rules, laws and rates in other countries is not a good idea.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #155 on: November 09, 2018, 08:05:22 AM »
Do Italians get a tax deduction for mortgage interest though? My rate is 3.5%, but I also have a marginal tax rate of 34%, giving me an effective rate of 2.3%.* However, I am also in the dwindling group of people who will still itemize my deductions, just another example of how the 2017 tax cuts benefit mostly the wealthy and well-payed.

*Not that anyone is all that interested, but we cash-out refinanced in 2015, and therefore can only deduct about 85% of our mortgage interest, so in reality I'm paying 2.5% net of my income tax savings

Hula Hoop

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #156 on: November 09, 2018, 08:13:51 AM »
Do Italians get a tax deduction for mortgage interest though? My rate is 3.5%, but I also have a marginal tax rate of 34%, giving me an effective rate of 2.3%.* However, I am also in the dwindling group of people who will still itemize my deductions, just another example of how the 2017 tax cuts benefit mostly the wealthy and well-payed.

*Not that anyone is all that interested, but we cash-out refinanced in 2015, and therefore can only deduct about 85% of our mortgage interest, so in reality I'm paying 2.5% net of my income tax savings

Yes there's a tax credit but it's not as generous as in the US.  Not complaining though.  :)

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #157 on: November 09, 2018, 02:08:09 PM »
No tears from me.

He refused to qualify any of his statements.  Always black and white.  When questioned, he would then say "oh yeah, in THAT case"...
I always felt that his advice was more confusing to newcomers because of this.  If he had put a footnote in his signature that said "1.  All advice is specific to US Residents only", then maybe I wouldn't have had such a hard time with him.   

Also, his risk tolerance was so much higher because he could and would borrow from his parents anytime he hit a cash flow problem.  People without resources like that simply cannot make the same plays. 

And one other thing... he routinely pestered people for what he considered to be frivolous spending, yet ... boat. 

The old saying about people not remembering exactly what you said, but they will never forget the way you made them feel is very true to me.   I'm glad he's gone.   

steveo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #158 on: November 09, 2018, 03:58:35 PM »
The advice being pushed as 'always correct' wasn't if you happen to live in a country other than the US.  It was certainly frustrating to see country specific advice constantly dogmatically given out over and over without acknowledgement of that fact.

I'm Australian and his advice didn't really make any sense to me. It still doesn't. I suppose to be fair you could make the argument that paying down your mortgage doesn't make financial sense when there is a raging bull market but it's far from a clear cut decision if you are Australian.

Still I don't believe in banning people because as you state if can end up an echo chamber. Different points of view are good.

Yes, his advice applied to people in the US, where we have 30 year mortgages which are fixed for the duration of the mortgage. I'm not certain about Australia but I know that kind of mortgage is unavailable in most of the world.  In Canada the longest term one can usually get is 25 years, and typically your rate is fixed for a period of 2 to 5 years (i.e. it functions like what we in the US would call an ARM).

B42 wasn't banned for his opinions on mortgage payoff, he was banned for violating the forum rules repeatedly.  I'm sad he's gone and would like it if the mods reinstated him for 'time-served' but everyone must follow the rules.

I tried to explain this when I mentioned paying off my mortgage. You can fix your rate but only for 2-5 years and you can't fix your rate and then when the rate goes down re-fix it to a lower rate.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #159 on: November 09, 2018, 05:18:22 PM »
No tears from me.

He refused to qualify any of his statements.  Always black and white.  When questioned, he would then say "oh yeah, in THAT case"...
I always felt that his advice was more confusing to newcomers because of this.  If he had put a footnote in his signature that said "1.  All advice is specific to US Residents only", then maybe I wouldn't have had such a hard time with him.   

Also, his risk tolerance was so much higher because he could and would borrow from his parents anytime he hit a cash flow problem.  People without resources like that simply cannot make the same plays. 

And one other thing... he routinely pestered people for what he considered to be frivolous spending, yet ... boat. 

The old saying about people not remembering exactly what you said, but they will never forget the way you made them feel is very true to me.   I'm glad he's gone.
No need to pile on, BlueHouse. He helped a lot of people on several topics. Not many people can say the same.

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #160 on: November 10, 2018, 06:15:26 PM »

No need to pile on, BlueHouse. He helped a lot of people on several topics. Not many people can say the same.
Thank you for your opinion Dicey, but please stop trying to shut me down.  I get to have an opinion too, and now I've expressed it.

No need to lecture commenters.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #161 on: November 10, 2018, 11:08:51 PM »

No need to pile on, BlueHouse. He helped a lot of people on several topics. Not many people can say the same.
Thank you for your opinion Dicey, but please stop trying to shut me down.  I get to have an opinion too, and now I've expressed it.

No need to lecture commenters.
"I'm glad he's gone." could not pass unremarked upon. Not nice, not necessary. You expressed your opinion in an unkind way. BTW - aren't we both commenters? As such, we are both equally bound by the Forum Rules. Feel free to consult the mods if you feel it's necessary.

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #162 on: November 11, 2018, 09:06:08 AM »

No need to pile on, BlueHouse. He helped a lot of people on several topics. Not many people can say the same.
Thank you for your opinion Dicey, but please stop trying to shut me down.  I get to have an opinion too, and now I've expressed it.

No need to lecture commenters.
"I'm glad he's gone." could not pass unremarked upon. Not nice, not necessary. You expressed your opinion in an unkind way. BTW - aren't we both commenters? As such, we are both equally bound by the Forum Rules. Feel free to consult the mods if you feel it's necessary.

Dicey, sometimes the quickest way to let a comment go away is to just let pass without remarking on it at all.  Some people appreciated B42, and I found him caustic.  I didn't like his comments and I didn't like the way he delivered them.  I don't know whether he's a decent human being or not.  That's all. 

As for the Forum Rules, I'm not sure what rule I've broken, but based on your history, I would bet you've already reported it to the mods.  Thanks for that.  Hopefully they'll let me know if and what rule I've broken. 

Now please feel free to get your last word in here:  "              "
Rest assured I will not respond. 

GreenEggs

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #163 on: November 11, 2018, 05:26:29 PM »
I'm going to have another drink.  From Aldi.  ;)


Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #164 on: November 11, 2018, 09:34:06 PM »
I'm going to have another drink.  From Aldi.  ;)
Please save me one. I'll buy.

Still Being

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #165 on: November 12, 2018, 07:42:31 AM »
“Some birds are not meant to be caged, that's all. Their feathers are too bright, their songs too sweet and wild. So you let them go, or when you open the cage to feed them they somehow fly out past you. And the part of you that knows it was wrong to imprison them in the first place rejoices, but still, the place where you live is that much more drab and empty for their departure."

ACyclist

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #166 on: December 15, 2018, 11:12:38 AM »
I vote that we let him back in.  He can be harsh.  I felt that.  He was cool though.  Some people are saltier that others.  Also, you can't inflect tone and humor in text very easily. We are all unique.

That's all I have to say on the topic. 

DreamFIRE

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #167 on: December 15, 2018, 11:43:26 AM »
I vote that we let him back in.  He can be harsh.  I felt that.  He was cool though.  Some people are saltier that others.  Also, you can't inflect tone and humor in text very easily. We are all unique.

That's all I have to say on the topic.

Remove all the user bans and all the IP bans and let everyone back.  Everyone deserves a second chance.  Even broader.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #168 on: December 15, 2018, 11:52:28 AM »
I vote that we let him back in.  He can be harsh.  I felt that.  He was cool though.  Some people are saltier that others.  Also, you can't inflect tone and humor in text very easily. We are all unique.

That's all I have to say on the topic.

Remove all the user bans and all the IP bans and let everyone back.  Everyone deserves a second chance.  Even broader.
Do you mean let back a broader field than everyone? Aliens too? Or do you mean the late, great boarder42? I sure hope it's the latter. He could be harsh, and his syntax sometimes sucked, but his winning combination of smarts and passion was a huge value-add to this forum.

DreamFIRE

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #169 on: December 15, 2018, 01:27:44 PM »
I vote that we let him back in.  He can be harsh.  I felt that.  He was cool though.  Some people are saltier that others.  Also, you can't inflect tone and humor in text very easily. We are all unique.

That's all I have to say on the topic.

Remove all the user bans and all the IP bans and let everyone back.  Everyone deserves a second chance.  Even broader.
Do you mean let back a broader field than everyone? Aliens too? Or do you mean the late, great boarder42? I sure hope it's the latter. He could be harsh, and his syntax sometimes sucked, but his winning combination of smarts and passion was a huge value-add to this forum.

lol.  Yes, boarder42.  I think he's learned his lessen by now.  Plus the broader group of previously banned users/IPs.

deborah

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #170 on: December 16, 2018, 02:37:49 AM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.

SnackDog

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #171 on: December 16, 2018, 06:12:08 AM »
I wonder if he has snuck back in under another email address and is now masquerading under a new name.  He seemed like a jerk, but the internet is full of them.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #172 on: December 16, 2018, 07:54:06 AM »
I wonder if he has snuck back in under another email address and is now masquerading under a new name.  He seemed like a jerk, but the internet is full of them.
I strongly doubt it. His style was so unique, it shouldn't be difficult to recognize.* He was still reading until recently, per his stats, but they seem to be no longer available.

Boarder42 isn't what you and others think @SnackDog. He is someone who cares passionately about helping others optimize their path to FIRE. The internet is NOT full of altruistic people willing to squarely face on the naysayers day after week after month. He did get frustrated, because so many people respond emotionally, without bothering to do the math to determine their optimal choice.

*Sidebar on this topic: if anyone misses the story of another badass, banned member who lived in his Chevy VOLT, there is a recent update that may or may not be from him in my journal. Don't slog through it, just flip to the last page or two if you're interested. Link in my siggy line.

42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.
@deborah, I typically love it when I see a reply from you on any given thread, because of your content, writing style and breadth of expertise. B42 does not have your even-handed approach or your writing chops, yet his committment to his areas of expertise is admirably (IMO) unwavering.

I tend not to follow the AUS real estate threads, because having visited the amazing Land Down Under, I know your real estate sales and lending structure is completely different. Even as a person with significant RE experience, your system gives me the heebie-jeebies. I do not know the specifics of what happened on the threads you mentioned, but your words contain the ring of truth. I will say that on the "DONT" [sic] thread*, B42 frequently states that his information applies to fixed rate, tax deductible, affordable mortgages, which don't seem to exist for primary mortgage loans in Canada, Great Britain (all of Europe??), Australia and New Zealand, to name a few biggies. But this is a US-based site, and the largest block of readers call 'Murcia home. When MMM says "dollars", it is understood that it is American Dollars he's speaking of, and this forum follows suit.

Which leads me to one of my Forum Pet Peeves: Unless one is on a clearly labeled nation-specific thread, it can be difficult to determine where a member is from. Even the delightfully frugal Linda_Norway isn't actually Norwegian.

Finally, deborah, I don't doubt for a moment that what you say is true, but it is clear from b42's disclaimers that he learned his lesson with regards to the fact that other markets are different. Interestingly, that doesn't negate his message, but it does make the math even trickier, which sucks for you guys. But then, you have exponentially better health care, so maybe it evens out?

* https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/dont-payoff-your-mortgage-club/msg2230570/?topicseen#new



tralfamadorian

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #173 on: December 16, 2018, 08:34:09 AM »
...which don't seem to exist for primary mortgage loans in Canada, Great Britain (all of Europe??), Australia and New Zealand, to name a few biggies...

Off topic but long term fixed rate mortgages are available in France as well. Currently I think around ~2.4% for a 25yr. Jealous!

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #174 on: December 16, 2018, 09:53:56 AM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.
Thank you deborah for so clearly stating what bothered me so much.  It wasn't enough to state his opinion and then let others do what they want.  He needed complete capitulation to the point where every second post was him refuting any other opinion.  Then Dicey would usually jump in too. The one thing I wish 42 AND Dicey would learn is: just let other people have opinions.  You can state yours, but if you find you're back repeating the same thing over and over and over again, especially on the same thread, then stop.  Just stop. 

Want to do the math?  check the ratio on the number of your posts compared to the next most prevalent commentor on the thread.  If your posts vastly outnumber anyone else's, then unless you're the OP, maybe you need to back off. 


SnackDog

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #175 on: December 16, 2018, 10:16:16 AM »
I agree. Two or maybe three posts per thread is plenty to make your point and any clarifications. Then move on and let others make their points.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #176 on: December 16, 2018, 10:38:02 AM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.
Thank you deborah for so clearly stating what bothered me so much.  It wasn't enough to state his opinion and then let others do what they want.  He needed complete capitulation to the point where every second post was him refuting any other opinion.  Then Dicey would usually jump in too. The one thing I wish 42 AND Dicey would learn is: just let other people have opinions.  You can state yours, but if you find you're back repeating the same thing over and over and over again, especially on the same thread, then stop.  Just stop. 

Want to do the math?  check the ratio on the number of your posts compared to the next most prevalent commentor on the thread.  If your posts vastly outnumber anyone else's, then unless you're the OP, maybe you need to back off.
Feel free to do that math on my posts and report back, @BlueHouse. I'll wait. I am in no way as prolific (or as smart) as b42. I'm clearly not as smart as you are either, but I am patient.

Oh, and the whole fucking point of a thread is to discuss a topic, so your bolded admonition makes little sense. All threads would be very short under your rules, so it wouldn't be a Forum. And no one new would be allowed to join the conversation, either. Sounds really helpful. You could do something really powerful to prevent this clear source of deep personal irritation: stop reading the thread. Just stop. Especially if the thread is called "DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage".  There is a different thread for those with other points of view. Multiple threads, in fact.

And by the way, B42 IS the OP of that thread, and created it at my suggestion. So I guess we were following your advice after all. Whaddya know? We agree, we agree, yippee!


ETA- While I'm back here fixing wonky spacing, may I also add that this thread is called R.I.P Boarder42, not RIP Boarder42?

And @maizeman, thanks.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 11:05:19 AM by Dicey »

maizeman

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #177 on: December 16, 2018, 10:40:57 AM »
I agree that if you find yourself just saying the exact same things over and over again that it's not a productive discussion. But I don't think a cap on contributions per thread makes sense, as often I see great discussions that can go on for a page or more as people exchange ideas/knowledge and the conversation flows organically.

Even when people disagree, as long as the thread is exploring new reasoning/logic/evidence it seems perfectly reasonable that individual users would accumulate significant numbers of posts.

I agree. Two or maybe three posts per thread is plenty to make your point and any clarifications. Then move on and let others make their points.

I'll note that this post proposing no more than 2-3 posts per user thread is your 5th post in this particular thread. ;-) (Also this response is my 4th.)

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #178 on: December 16, 2018, 02:02:18 PM »
The forum rules do not limit how many times a person can post.

From a practical standpoint I do not think it would be a good idea to attempt to limit anyone's participation in a thread. The non-instantaneous nature of forums means that some participants may go days without reading up on a particular thread, and then may respond to multiple posts within a few minutes.  It's certainly how I operate. Others merely lurk, seldom if ever posting at all.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #179 on: December 16, 2018, 03:30:46 PM »
He acted like a jackass and yes, if a thread was not to his liking he'd suffocate it to death.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #180 on: December 16, 2018, 05:51:54 PM »
He acted like a jackass and yes, if a thread was not to his liking he'd suffocate it to death.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.
Suggest you not post stuff like this on a thread entitled "R.I.P Boarder 42". You are free leave and axegrind elsewhere. His style could be abrasive, even dogmatic, but many were helped by his committment and passion. It's okay if you weren't one of them.

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #181 on: December 16, 2018, 06:06:36 PM »
He acted like a jackass and yes, if a thread was not to his liking he'd suffocate it to death.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.

You are insulting a former forum member in a thread dedicated to remembering him, immediately after a post reminding all of the forum rules. 

Please knock it off.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #182 on: December 16, 2018, 06:20:15 PM »
Ha.  Pretty funny asking people to respect boundaries here when the subject of this thread ran roughshod over similar requests.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.

markbike528CBX

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #183 on: December 16, 2018, 07:20:16 PM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.

Ouch, and I though boarder42 was just doing this in US related threads.

He acted like a jackass and yes, if a thread was not to his liking he'd suffocate it to death.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.
++1

Ha.  Pretty funny asking people to respect boundaries here when the subject of this thread ran roughshod over similar requests.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.
Roughshod is the lightest possible phrase to describe  boarder42's behavior.

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #184 on: December 16, 2018, 07:46:20 PM »
Ha.  Pretty funny asking people to respect boundaries here when the subject of this thread ran roughshod over similar requests.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.

It’s a simple reminder of the forum rules.  Specifically:
2. Attack an argument, not a person
4. Be respectful of the site and other members
Try to stay towards the top of Graham’s Hierarchy of Disagreement (i.e. ‘name calling’ is at the base)

As has been noted, Boarder42 was banned because of forum violations.
Please refrain from engaging in similar behavior.
~N~

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #185 on: December 17, 2018, 06:25:56 AM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.
Thank you deborah for so clearly stating what bothered me so much.  It wasn't enough to state his opinion and then let others do what they want.  He needed complete capitulation to the point where every second post was him refuting any other opinion.  Then Dicey would usually jump in too. The one thing I wish 42 AND Dicey would learn is: just let other people have opinions.  You can state yours, but if you find you're back repeating the same thing over and over and over again, especially on the same thread, then stop.  Just stop. 

Want to do the math?  check the ratio on the number of your posts compared to the next most prevalent commentor on the thread.  If your posts vastly outnumber anyone else's, then unless you're the OP, maybe you need to back off.
Feel free to do that math on my posts and report back, @BlueHouse. I'll wait. I am in no way as prolific (or as smart) as b42. I'm clearly not as smart as you are either, but I am patient.

Oh, and the whole fucking point of a thread is to discuss a topic, so your bolded admonition makes little sense. All threads would be very short under your rules, so it wouldn't be a Forum. And no one new would be allowed to join the conversation, either. Sounds really helpful. You could do something really powerful to prevent this clear source of deep personal irritation: stop reading the thread. Just stop. Especially if the thread is called "DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage".  There is a different thread for those with other points of view. Multiple threads, in fact.

And by the way, B42 IS the OP of that thread, and created it at my suggestion. So I guess we were following your advice after all. Whaddya know? We agree, we agree, yippee!


ETA- While I'm back here fixing wonky spacing, may I also add that this thread is called R.I.P Boarder42, not RIP Boarder42?

And @maizeman, thanks.
Dicey, I'm afraid you missed the point of my comment and my emphasis of another poster.  I'm not trying to limit what anyone can say, and I never said to limit the writing or thoughts from anyone.  But if you are REPEATING the same thing over and over to the same person or people, without any new content, then that's where to drop it.  Another poster commented that every other post in the "pay off your mortgage" thread was from 42 (or from you), stating the very same info, and for months, that was true.  It was repetitious, it was boring, and it veered off into personal attacks when 42 would suggest that someone didn't understand the math. 

Frankly, I just found it disrespectful to everyone in the thread.  Then after you both were asked to just leave that thread alone, you went on another thread and discussed how the people in the first thread wouldn't listen to logic.  Then I piped in (against my better judgement), because I'm just tired of how you two would misrepresent so much.  The funny thing is, that I'm not against the content of what you say...but the way 42 said it (and you to some extent) was just so obnoxiously arrogant that it made me lose my sense of calm. 

I agree that if you find yourself just saying the exact same things over and over again that it's not a productive discussion. But I don't think a cap on contributions per thread makes sense, as often I see great discussions that can go on for a page or more as people exchange ideas/knowledge and the conversation flows organically.
I think the person who suggested limiting to 2-3 posts meant exactly what you stated here.  limit the repetitive statements before it devolves into "yes you did" "no I didn't".  So many of us seem to be in agreement about this.




oldmannickels

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #186 on: December 17, 2018, 08:39:55 AM »
Man I got real excited when I saw this post thought he was back!

Still Being

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #187 on: December 17, 2018, 01:36:42 PM »
They weren't banned for personality. They were banned for troll posts. So no need to debate their personality.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #188 on: December 17, 2018, 01:49:56 PM »
42 was quick to destroy Australian threads that were started, when we have a totally different tax regime, but none of that counted. Every second post was from 42, and threads had to be abandoned. It is no wonder that every Australian who has commented here did not appreciate whatever positive parts there were in 42s diatribes.
Thank you deborah for so clearly stating what bothered me so much.  It wasn't enough to state his opinion and then let others do what they want.  He needed complete capitulation to the point where every second post was him refuting any other opinion.  Then Dicey would usually jump in too. The one thing I wish 42 AND Dicey would learn is: just let other people have opinions.  You can state yours, but if you find you're back repeating the same thing over and over and over again, especially on the same thread, then stop.  Just stop. 

Want to do the math?  check the ratio on the number of your posts compared to the next most prevalent commentor on the thread.  If your posts vastly outnumber anyone else's, then unless you're the OP, maybe you need to back off.
Feel free to do that math on my posts and report back, @BlueHouse. I'll wait. I am in no way as prolific (or as smart) as b42. I'm clearly not as smart as you are either, but I am patient.

Oh, and the whole fucking point of a thread is to discuss a topic, so your bolded admonition makes little sense. All threads would be very short under your rules, so it wouldn't be a Forum. And no one new would be allowed to join the conversation, either. Sounds really helpful. You could do something really powerful to prevent this clear source of deep personal irritation: stop reading the thread. Just stop. Especially if the thread is called "DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage".  There is a different thread for those with other points of view. Multiple threads, in fact.

And by the way, B42 IS the OP of that thread, and created it at my suggestion. So I guess we were following your advice after all. Whaddya know? We agree, we agree, yippee!


ETA- While I'm back here fixing wonky spacing, may I also add that this thread is called R.I.P Boarder42, not RIP Boarder42?

And @maizeman, thanks.
Dicey, I'm afraid you missed the point of my comment and my emphasis of another poster.  I'm not trying to limit what anyone can say, and I never said to limit the writing or thoughts from anyone.  But if you are REPEATING the same thing over and over to the same person or people, without any new content, then that's where to drop it.  Another poster commented that every other post in the "pay off your mortgage" thread was from 42 (or from you), stating the very same info, and for months, that was true.  It was repetitious, it was boring, and it veered off into personal attacks when 42 would suggest that someone didn't understand the math. 

Frankly, I just found it disrespectful to everyone in the thread.  Then after you both were asked to just leave that thread alone, you went on another thread and discussed how the people in the first thread wouldn't listen to logic.  Then I piped in (against my better judgement), because I'm just tired of how you two would misrepresent so much.  The funny thing is, that I'm not against the content of what you say...but the way 42 said it (and you to some extent) was just so obnoxiously arrogant that it made me lose my sense of calm. 

I agree that if you find yourself just saying the exact same things over and over again that it's not a productive discussion. But I don't think a cap on contributions per thread makes sense, as often I see great discussions that can go on for a page or more as people exchange ideas/knowledge and the conversation flows organically.
I think the person who suggested limiting to 2-3 posts meant exactly what you stated here.  limit the repetitive statements before it devolves into "yes you did" "no I didn't".  So many of us seem to be in agreement about this.
Enough, BlueHouse. PM sent. Please check your messages.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #189 on: December 21, 2018, 05:40:45 AM »
This was posted on another thread, which makes me sad. According to some, there is nothing that can be said or done to help, because...well, I really don't understand why. What is this forum about anyway? Why are we here again?

"• Killed the mortgage - yeah! 
• Contributed 10% to my 401k - good but could do better

• Bought needed home improvement items with cash - just how it should be
• Increased the emergency fund by $1k - harder than it looks since we dipped into this for emergency vet bills
• Didn't make any contributions to either of our IRAs - boo!

Looking at it from the annual point of view makes it easier to figure out what we need to focus on next."

Please note that I've removed the author's name. I'm not criticizing them specifically, just pointing out that the opportunity to teach/share is ongoing. We don't learn this stuff in school. Where can people figure this stuff out if not here?

Maenad

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #190 on: December 21, 2018, 06:33:26 AM »
Boarder42 isn't what you and others think @SnackDog. He is someone who cares passionately about helping others optimize their path to FIRE. The internet is NOT full of altruistic people willing to squarely face on the naysayers day after week after month.

Then he did a poor job of conveying it. His banning is an important lesson - if you can't debate without getting frustrated and veering into jerk territory, step away from the computer and calm down. Being factually correct, passionate, or altruistic doesn't matter if you're pissing off the very people you're trying to convince.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #191 on: December 21, 2018, 06:59:42 AM »
Boarder42 isn't what you and others think @SnackDog. He is someone who cares passionately about helping others optimize their path to FIRE. The internet is NOT full of altruistic people willing to squarely face on the naysayers day after week after month.

Then he did a poor job of conveying it. His banning is an important lesson - if you can't debate without getting frustrated and veering into jerk territory, step away from the computer and calm down. Being factually correct, passionate, or altruistic doesn't matter if you're pissing off the very people you're trying to convince.
I don't disagree with you, @Maenad. However, I doubt his banning is an important lesson, because he's just gone. Who that is new will learn anything from his absence?

I have stated before that his writing style irritated me, and pleas to proofread (via PM) fell on deaf ears, but still he grew on me. The DPYM concept is counterintuitive and not sound-bite easy to explain. He got it and cared about sharing this knowledge with others. Even if he used a sledgehammer, there was still value in his teaching.

Slight tangent: He also contributed o freely on other threads/topics. I'm kind of dismayed by the people who do little but journal or their own case studies. Contributing across the board seems like a fair trade for the benefits this site provides.

SnackDog

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #192 on: December 21, 2018, 07:10:51 AM »
However, I doubt his banning is an important lesson, because he's just gone. Who that is new will learn anything from his absence?

Maybe Boarder42 will learn from being banned and will behave better in whatever other forums he chooses to enter to satisfy his need to anonymously Be Right on the internet.

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #193 on: December 21, 2018, 07:16:30 AM »
However, I doubt his banning is an important lesson, because he's just gone. Who that is new will learn anything from his absence?

Maybe Boarder42 will learn from being banned and will behave better in whatever other forums he chooses to enter to satisfy his need to anonymously Be Right on the internet.

I never got from Boarder42 a desire to be right, it seemed more a desire to get people to reject the default advice to 'kill your mortgage ASAP!'.  In other areas of the forum (and he posted broadly) he didn't come off as needing to 'Be Right'. He was just incredibly passionate about the mortgage issue.

I hope he does reflect and take a bit more time in the future. Yelling gets people's attention, but it doesn't often change minds.

Dicey

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #194 on: December 21, 2018, 07:23:18 AM »
However, I doubt his banning is an important lesson, because he's just gone. Who that is new will learn anything from his absence?

Maybe Boarder42 will learn from being banned and will behave better in whatever other forums he chooses to enter to satisfy his need to anonymously Be Right on the internet.

I never got from Boarder42 a desire to be right, it seemed more a desire to get people to reject the default advice to 'kill your mortgage ASAP!'.  In other areas of the forum (and he posted broadly) he didn't come off as needing to 'Be Right'. He was just incredibly passionate about the mortgage issue.

I hope he does reflect and take a bit more time in the future. Yelling gets people's attention, but it doesn't often change minds.
Yet there are a number of people who did change their minds.  Down the road, when the gap widens, they will be glad they listened and learned.

GuitarStv

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #195 on: December 21, 2018, 07:40:26 AM »
This was posted on another thread, which makes me sad. According to some, there is nothing that can be said or done to help, because...well, I really don't understand why. What is this forum about anyway? Why are we here again?

"• Killed the mortgage - yeah! 
• Contributed 10% to my 401k - good but could do better

• Bought needed home improvement items with cash - just how it should be
• Increased the emergency fund by $1k - harder than it looks since we dipped into this for emergency vet bills
• Didn't make any contributions to either of our IRAs - boo!

Looking at it from the annual point of view makes it easier to figure out what we need to focus on next."

Please note that I've removed the author's name. I'm not criticizing them specifically, just pointing out that the opportunity to teach/share is ongoing. We don't learn this stuff in school. Where can people figure this stuff out if not here?

If you feel the need to enlighten people, I encourage you to do so.  Boarder42 was certainly not banned for his ideas.  He was banned for being a dick.  It's also possible to convey information in a non-aggressive, factual, non-dickish way . . . and you will not get much resistance or push back for doing so.

BlueHouse

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #196 on: December 21, 2018, 11:07:54 AM »

If you feel the need to enlighten people, I encourage you to do so.  Boarder42 was certainly not banned for his ideas.  He was banned for being a dick.  It's also possible to convey information in a non-aggressive, factual, non-dickish way . . . and you will not get much resistance or push back for doing so.

Amen! 

Happy Holidays to all! 

Pizzabrewer

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #197 on: December 21, 2018, 12:57:27 PM »
This was posted on another thread, which makes me sad. According to some, there is nothing that can be said or done to help, because...well, I really don't understand why. What is this forum about anyway? Why are we here again?


Sorry but your sad takeaway from this incident doesn't cut it.  You (and everyone else here willing to behave as an adult) are more than free to help, explain, chime in on any thread to help educate people.  Boarder42's banning has no bearing on this, other than as a cautionary tale not to be an asshole about explaining your views.

He's gone.  Leave it rest.

oldmannickels

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #198 on: December 21, 2018, 01:10:43 PM »
Boarder42 did you learn your lesson?

nereo

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Re: R.I.P. Boarder42
« Reply #199 on: December 21, 2018, 01:14:09 PM »
Boarder42 did you learn your lesson?

Are you asking sardonically? 
He can't respond, and it's uncertain that he'll ever see your comments.