PSA about talking to disabled strangers

[Metalcat]

Feel free to ignore this, I just need to rant about something that I experience daily that drives me nuts as a disabled person, and I thought the generally thoughtful folks of MMM might appreciate the insight.

I've been using a cane or arm crutches for the past year or so since I lost my ability to walk much due to hip dysplasia. I'm in constant pain.

However, I look REALLY young, like often mistaken for a university student, and because it's not armpit crutches and there's no cast, it's obviously not a broken leg or anything acute like that.

So now that I've explained the backstory, here's my frustrated request:

DON'T ASK STRANGERS WHY THEY ARE USING WALKING AIDES! IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!!!

Ahem...sorry...I just needed to scream that out somewhere.

If I looked older, most people would just tune out my walking aides, but because I look so young, it's like strangers just can't resist feeling entitled to know why such a young and healthy person would be so hobbled.

I can't tell you how many times a day total strangers stop me and ask for my personal medical history. If one more total rando asks me "You look so young to need a cane, what happened to you?" I swear I'm *this close* to responding "OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING BAD YOU FUCKNUCKLE!!!!"

Instead my response is an increasingly hostile but sing song"Just born this way!" Which generally shuts people up and makes them realize the question was not exactly kosher.

Most of you here know me and that I'm generally patient with all sorts of questions. So if I'm riled up enough to share, it means I'm REALLY aggravated.

The TLDR of it all is to remember that you are not entitled to the private medical information of strangers, therefore, if you want to not make a disabled person's day worse, please don't feel like you are entitled to explanations as to "what happened" to them.

[Dicey]

Ouch.  I hate that you have to put up with this bullshit, on every level.

OTOH, thank you for "fucknuckle".

@Sailor Sam is usually my go-to for creative swear words, but this one is prizewinning in my book. Thank you.

[Kris]

People are just… bewildering.

I’m putting one vote in the column for calling them fucknuckles and telling them exactly this.

[sonofsven]

Pretend you're non verbal and scream over-exaggerated nonsense at them?
Tell them you were beaten senseless by a disabled person when you rudely asked what happened to them?
Sorry you have to put up with such nonsense.

[OzzieandHarriet]

Somehow I was ingrained by my mother with the idea that it is bad manners to comment on anything relating to the health - or really say anything negative about - the externals of another person, especially one you don’t know well, or at all. I suppose that’s a subset of the Golden Rule.

So, you know, for example, don’t say to a blind person, “wow, it must be hard to be blind!”

[G-dog]

Have you thought of:

Carrying a recording of the relevant snippet of the Lady Gaga song “Born this Way”?  You could play it really loudly. 

Or carry a bullhorn or one of those air horns - then ask them why they are covering their ears?

Or ignore their question and ask a really rude question in return? 
   - what do you weigh? You must be well over 200 pounds!
   - how is the Viagra working out for you?
   - was the lobotomy painful?

Or come up with a crazy medical reason?
    - I was at the doctor having my regular Pap smear and the speculum broke and sprung open and damaged my pelvis
     - it turns out you really can eat too much chocolate
     - my partner ignored my “safe” word

As a one off, besides being nosy, at least some people are trying to express sympathy.  But they are really ham-handed about it - we are a very ignorant species.

[ixtap]

Gaaaggghhhhh.

That's all.

[Metalcat]

Have you thought of:

Carrying a recording of the relevant snippet of the Lady Gaga song “Born this Way”?  You could play it really loudly. 

Or carry a bullhorn or one of those air horns - then ask them why they are covering their ears?

Or ignore their question and ask a really rude question in return? 
   - what do you weigh? You must be well over 200 pounds!
   - how is the Viagra working out for you?
   - was the lobotomy painful?

Or come up with a crazy medical reason?
    - I was at the doctor having my regular Pap smear and the speculum broke and sprung open and damaged my pelvis
     - it turns out you really can eat too much chocolate
     - my partner ignored my “safe” word

As a one off, besides being nosy, at least some people are trying to express sympathy.  But they are really ham-handed about it - we are a very ignorant species.

Lol, I do actually come up with creative things to say most of the time.

The best was in a skate park where I implied that I had been crippled by a skateboarding accident.

My favourite is "leg transplant" and seeing just how long I can keep someone thinking "that can't be true? Right? She's fucking with me, right?" But I am an amazingly convincing delivery. Plus I'm medical so I know all of the surgical terminology to sell it.

I think there are a few morons out there who actually think I am walking around with the leg of a dude who died in a motorcycle accident.

I absolutely LOVE fucking with people, but I have to be in a good mood to want to do that.

This week I was exhausted, had just had 100 injections in my spine, I was in horrible pain, and trying to just go about running my fucking errands and too many people bothered me while I wanted to be left the fuck alone to pick up my prescriptions and return the raised toilet seat I ordered from Amazon for after my surgery because it doesn't fit my toilet.

Like fuck, let a cranky crippled chick have a bit of privacy and dignity here!

[G-dog]

Have you thought of:

Carrying a recording of the relevant snippet of the Lady Gaga song “Born this Way”?  You could play it really loudly. 

Or carry a bullhorn or one of those air horns - then ask them why they are covering their ears?

Or ignore their question and ask a really rude question in return? 
   - what do you weigh? You must be well over 200 pounds!
   - how is the Viagra working out for you?
   - was the lobotomy painful?

Or come up with a crazy medical reason?
    - I was at the doctor having my regular Pap smear and the speculum broke and sprung open and damaged my pelvis
     - it turns out you really can eat too much chocolate
     - my partner ignored my “safe” word

As a one off, besides being nosy, at least some people are trying to express sympathy.  But they are really ham-handed about it - we are a very ignorant species.

Lol, I do actually come up with creative things to say most of the time.

The best was in a skate park where I implied that I had been crippled by a skateboarding accident.

My favourite is "leg transplant" and seeing just how long I can keep someone thinking "that can't be true? Right? She's fucking with me, right?" But I am an amazingly convincing delivery. Plus I'm medical so I know all of the surgical terminology to sell it.

I think there are a few morons out there who actually think I am walking around with the leg of a dude who died in a motorcycle accident.

I absolutely LOVE fucking with people, but I have to be in a good mood to want to do that.

This week I was exhausted, had just had 100 injections in my spine, I was in horrible pain, and trying to just go about running my fucking errands and too many people bothered me while I wanted to be left the fuck alone to pick up my prescriptions and return the raised toilet seat I ordered from Amazon for after my surgery because it doesn't fit my toilet.

Like fuck, let a cranky crippled chick have a bit of privacy and dignity here!

Maybe just look them in the eye a bit longer than is comfortable, then hiss at them and go on your way.

[Unionville]

Wow - it's shocking to hear people would just walk up and ask you those things.  Mostly, I'm sorry you are in such pain.  I'm still glad you are not 'old' with a mobility aid.  As my aunt says, people act as if you are invisible and won't talk to you even if you need help :(

Hang in there.  I think good catchphrases like some suggested here is nice to carry around.

(not comparable) but I got so tired of people asking me where my husband was "from" (he's mixed race but grew up in NY).  I know what they are really asking is: what ethnicity is he? and is he an American?  I just started saying he's from New York and let the sentence die there.

[Just_Me]

My favourite part is when they go"you're too young to be dealing with that", like it breaks their version of how the world works so it's obviously not a big deal or you're clearly making it up.

[Metalcat]

My favourite part is when they go"you're too young to be dealing with that", like it breaks their version of how the world works so it's obviously not a big deal or you're clearly making it up.

It's just something notable.

I also look very fit, so they can't resolve how someone can look so young, healthy, and fit and clearly have what appears to be a serious mobility problem.

The arm crutches really fuck people up because those are most associated with CP and I look so "normal."

And yes, people do tend to use the word "normal" when talking about my appearance, as if that isn't one of the most offensive things they could possibly say to a disabled person.

They just don't really think. They say these things as if they're being nice. Like the energy is always an emotionally generous one, which is why I don't jump to a more belittling and hostile response.

If they were saying anything even remotely judgemental, I would just verbally rip their throats out, I'm perfectly comfortable telling of assholes.

That's the thing though, this is people thinking they're being thoughtful somehow?? Which leaves me in a bit of a bind as to how to respond, because it puts the responsibility square on my shoulders of educating them if I want to react with any negativity.

The tone is very much a caring "oh sweetie, you look so young and healthy, what happened to you that someone so youthful and fit and vibrant would need walking aides??"

So then, if I am not in the mood to fuck with people, I often default to "just born this way" and that's when they bust out the "but you look so normal!"

And I'm like *facepalm*

[Villanelle]

Wow.  It's genuinely shocking to me that there is more than just a tiny minority of people who would think that was every okay. 

[Metalcat]

Wow.  It's genuinely shocking to me that there is more than just a tiny minority of people who would think that was every okay.

People don't think about the things they say, they just say them.

I've seen this as a disabled person, as the former spouse of a black person, as a former minority woman in an all-male workplace, as the roommate of various queer folk, people just say shit and don't even realize what they've said.

It's more mindless than malicious, but that doesn't make it less aggravating, it's actually more irritating because it ties my hands in terms of response.

[Frankies Girl]

The longer I'm alive, the more I realize that the majority of people are booger eating morons, or have absolutely no filter or common sense. Or both.

Sigh.

[Just_Me]

They just don't really think. They say these things as if they're being nice. Like the energy is always an emotionally generous one, which is why I don't jump to a more belittling and hostile response.

On another thought maybe they just don't know how to respond because they've never had  to deal with something that doesn't fit the mold. It's their best guess. But still, I agree with FG↓

The longer I'm alive, the more I realize that the majority of people are booger eating morons, or have absolutely no filter or common sense. Or both.

Sigh.

[Metalcat]

They just don't really think. They say these things as if they're being nice. Like the energy is always an emotionally generous one, which is why I don't jump to a more belittling and hostile response.

On another thought maybe they just don't know how to respond because they've never had  to deal with something that doesn't fit the mold. It's their best guess. But still, I agree with FG↓

The longer I'm alive, the more I realize that the majority of people are booger eating morons, or have absolutely no filter or common sense. Or both.

Sigh.

They are total strangers, they don't "have to deal" with anything. Literally the only reason they are talking to me is because they are curious about why I use walking aides and feel entitled to this information.

That's why it's so exhausting. I deal with this constantly from literally strangers who have no reason to engage with me. I'm usually looking at my phone when these comments happen. But they think they're saying something that's either totally benign or weirdly considerate. Like them commenting is them offering me sympathy.

The way an adult might look at a child with a cast on and sweetly say "oh no, what happened to you?" but with the added element of them clearly being confused.

It's just obnoxious when I'm not in the mood to talk to people anyway.

Maybe when I'm in that mood I need to start walking around with headphones. But even then, I've had people tap me on the shoulder to ask what happened to me.

[gooki]

Thanks for sharing and confirming my suspension it's rude to ask.

And yeah, a large portion of the public "don't think about the things they say, they just say them."

[Metalcat]

Thanks for sharing and confirming my suspension it's rude to ask.

And yeah, a large portion of the public "don't think about the things they say, they just say them."

It's not rude to ask about someone's disability, it's rude to ask anyone about their private medical information unless you are in an intimate enough dynamic with them to do so.

My threshold for that dynamic is pretty low because I'm a very open person. If I'm choosing to engage in a personal conversation with someone, like if I've demonstrated any degree of being open to letting the other person get to know me, then I'm perfectly cool with them asking.

But if it's a stranger, then I've given them zero indication that I want them to know private details about my life. I would be weirded out by a stranger asking me ANYTHING about my personal life.

Asking me about my disability is about on par with asking me about my love life. So I would use that as a starting metric.

If it isn't appropriate to ask the person about their love life yet, then don't ask them about their visible disability.

[curious_george]

I would be too tempted to fuck with people in your situation who ask this question.

Person A: "Hey what happened to your legs?"
Me: "Oh they got blown off in the Iraq war from a roadside IED...*long pause*...It's ok I shot the fucker who planted the bomb on the way back to base. Or at least I think it was him. He was staring at the remote...or maybe that was his smartphone. Not sure. It doesn't really matter really, I may have lost my legs but I shot that fucker between the eyes. I always wanted to kill a man....*walks away mumbling about karma*

Person A: "Hey what happened to your legs?"
Me: "They got stuck in concrete then got ran over."
Person A: "Wait, what?"
Me: "Yeah don't put your feet in wet concrete kid"
Person A: "Did that really happened?"
Me: "*raises voice* Do you enjoy making fun of crippled people? What's wrong with you!" *walks away mumbling about concrete*

Person A: "Hey what happened to your legs?"
Me: "Oh, I'm not sure. I just woke up and they didn't work anymore"
Person A: "Have you seen a doctor?"
Me: "*long pause, stares off into space* ... I don't believe in doctors"
Person A: "Uhh, ok"
Me: "*starts rambling about a conspiracy theory about doctors and the government controlling people with fear and microchips disguised as vaccines*"
Person A: *slowly walks away* ...
Alternatively if you live where I live Person A will join in the conspiracy theories SMH

Or if I didn't feel like messing with people that day I would just say it's a rare complicated medical disorder or something along these lines...then if they press further I would just make up a word and see how many people think it's a real condition and start talking about how they heard about that this one time.

There is a cashier at my local Sam's club that I have interacted with for 13 years now who has no legs and I've never once asked him what happened to his legs. It seems kind of obvious to not ask these sorts of questions from strangers - even for someone as socially unaware as myself.

[rocketpj]

I had a similar experience about 20 years ago, where for various surgery related reasons I had no voice - I spoke like I had laryngitis.  For about 3 years before it was all resolved.  I was 25 and talked like Clint Eastwood at his most whispery.

Everywhere I went people would laugh, imitate me and then ask what's up with my throat.  At first I would explain, but after awhile it got really, really, really old.  People would just assume I had some humorous laryngitis and not the actual serious issues with my throat. 

'Hahaha what's up with your voice?'

'What's up with your face?'

I was really fortunate in that it eventually ended.  I can't shout (much) and can't hang out in loud places, but I don't like to shout or go to live music anyway so I feel like I got away lucky.  But I got a very healthy respect for not sticking my nose into other people's health business.

[nereo]

After reading your post, my personal goal today is to call someone who deserves it a ‘fucknuckle’.

[Metalcat]

After reading your post, my personal goal today is to call someone who deserves it a ‘fucknuckle’.

It is a good word. Much more fun to say than to write.

[curious_george]

lol at some of the suggested response but sorry you have to deal with this @Malcat. I have a disability (lost most of my hearing around age 30) and random unknown people trying to talk to me drive me nuts. Them: "mumble mumble..." Me: "I'm sorry I'm very hard of hearing so can't hear or understand you." Them: start yelling very loudly at me..I still hear "mumble mumble...".Me: " I'm deaf and can't hear or understand you sorry". Them: get right up to my face and scream at me spewing covid cooties all over me. I still hear a very loud version of "mumble mumble..." Usually by then they are is irrated and angry at me because random strangers mumbles aren't understood and they stomp off muttering mumbling?) to themselves in agitation.

TBH it's actually very hurtful to me when I try to explain politely that  I can't hear them. It seems people get so angry at me if I don't understand them or even hear them. I know it's just frustration on their part but it actually brings me near tears sometimes. Even people who know me well and who love me get frustrated at me and stomp away all irate. It's hurtful. Especially from family and friends. I don't expect  random strangers to know but they are just being fucknuckles who should stop talking to me after I tell them I can't hear.

My grandfather lost his hearing and solves this problem by pointing to his ears and screaming "they don't work!" to anyone who tries to talk to him.

If they continue talking he starts preaching about God and the fruits of the holy spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, etc...then just repeat the preaching.

This works remarkably well for him.

[Captain FIRE]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Malcat.

I will say I felt awkward recently on the other side of this encounter, as a bystander when someone asked another person about their disability.  I froze and was not sure how to respond so I didn't say anything.  In fairness, they are not strangers, we all serve on a Board together (he's a newcomer on the Board, but known from his longstanding involvement in the activity).  It was also at a small social gathering with some family members and he didn't appear to mind, but awkward nonetheless to me to probe on when the person lost their sight and another related question or two. 

So mustachians, I ask you: What are deflection responses I can interject in the future as an observer?

[Metalcat]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Malcat.

I will say I felt awkward recently on the other side of this encounter, as a bystander when someone asked another person about their disability.  I froze and was not sure how to respond so I didn't say anything.  In fairness, they are not strangers, we all serve on a Board together (he's a newcomer on the Board, but known from his longstanding involvement in the activity).  It was also at a small social gathering with some family members and he didn't appear to mind, but awkward nonetheless to me to probe on when the person lost their sight and another related question or two. 

So mustachians, I ask you: What are deflection responses I can interject in the future as an observer?

As I said above, there's a certain level of intimacy with a person where it becomes pretty reasonable to ask. For me, I don't consider questions about my disability to be any more invasive than questions about whether I'm married or have kids.

That sounds like a context where those kinds of questions would be reasonable. I would personally have no problem with fellow board members asking about my disability as long as they were polite about it.

Other people with disabilities might not be so comfortable, but it's up to them to establish those boundaries.

It's never up to you to step in and decide if/when it's okay for someone to ask, unless they are being obviously obnoxious and the person seems like they could use a rescue. But this isn't a disability thing, it's a basic social cues thing.

At no point is it on you to set the boundaries for another person. What you could do though, is say you were out with a close friend who made a comment to a young woman with crutches. If you're super close with them and they can take a ribbing, you could be like "OMG, I'm sorry for my rude ass friend." Or if they're more sensitive or you're just not that good friends, you could politely mention to them that they basically just asked for the intimate medical information of a stranger and that's kind of weird.

Interjecting with a stranger though? N'ah, that's none of your business and I would find it presumptive that yet another stranger thinks it's their place to butt in to my business, plus I don't need a rescuer. I'm crippled, not fragile.

Okay...well I am literally fragile...but that's not the point. Lol

[Captain FIRE]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Malcat.

I will say I felt awkward recently on the other side of this encounter, as a bystander when someone asked another person about their disability.  I froze and was not sure how to respond so I didn't say anything.  In fairness, they are not strangers, we all serve on a Board together (he's a newcomer on the Board, but known from his longstanding involvement in the activity).  It was also at a small social gathering with some family members and he didn't appear to mind, but awkward nonetheless to me to probe on when the person lost their sight and another related question or two. 

So mustachians, I ask you: What are deflection responses I can interject in the future as an observer?

As I said above, there's a certain level of intimacy with a person where it becomes pretty reasonable to ask. For me, I don't consider questions about my disability to be any more invasive than questions about whether I'm married or have kids.

That sounds like a context where those kinds of questions would be reasonable. I would personally have no problem with fellow board members asking about my disability as long as they were polite about it.

Other people with disabilities might not be so comfortable, but it's up to them to establish those boundaries.

It's never up to you to step in and decide if/when it's okay for someone to ask, unless they are being obviously obnoxious and the person seems like they could use a rescue. But this isn't a disability thing, it's a basic social cues thing.

At no point is it on you to set the boundaries for another person. What you could do though, is say you were out with a close friend who made a comment to a young woman with crutches. If you're super close with them and they can take a ribbing, you could be like "OMG, I'm sorry for my rude ass friend." Or if they're more sensitive or you're just not that good friends, you could politely mention to them that they basically just asked for the intimate medical information of a stranger and that's kind of weird.

Interjecting with a stranger though? N'ah, that's none of your business and I would find it presumptive that yet another stranger thinks it's their place to butt in to my business, plus I don't need a rescuer. I'm crippled, not fragile.

Okay...well I am literally fragile...but that's not the point. Lol

So, to clarify, I'm not thinking interjecting to set boundaries and say a message of effectively, "How rude".  I said deflecting specifically because I'm thinking how one can take the pressure off someone else from feeling forced to respond.  For example, my freshman year in college very late one night Friend A asked Friend B if they were gay.  Friend B had previously told me that they were indeed gay, but they did not want it known.  I forget what I said exactly but I jumped in and said something to distract everyone, the moment passed, my friend didn't have to respond then and he was quite grateful to me for deflecting the conversation from him. (Sometime the next year he came out.)

I agree that jumping in all the time to other people's conversations is not appropriate (in case it wasn't clear above, I'm also talking about where you are not a stranger - you know at least one party of the conversation).  But, there are times when it seems a person might be hesitating to answer so I'm wondering if there are any simple phrases to say and deflect attention. It's probably situation specific, but for example I remember an advice columnists suggest saying something like "why do you ask?" when you are the recipient of the rude query. It's a general reaction that can be used in many situations.

[Villanelle]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Malcat.

I will say I felt awkward recently on the other side of this encounter, as a bystander when someone asked another person about their disability.  I froze and was not sure how to respond so I didn't say anything.  In fairness, they are not strangers, we all serve on a Board together (he's a newcomer on the Board, but known from his longstanding involvement in the activity).  It was also at a small social gathering with some family members and he didn't appear to mind, but awkward nonetheless to me to probe on when the person lost their sight and another related question or two. 

So mustachians, I ask you: What are deflection responses I can interject in the future as an observer?

As I said above, there's a certain level of intimacy with a person where it becomes pretty reasonable to ask. For me, I don't consider questions about my disability to be any more invasive than questions about whether I'm married or have kids.

That sounds like a context where those kinds of questions would be reasonable. I would personally have no problem with fellow board members asking about my disability as long as they were polite about it.

Other people with disabilities might not be so comfortable, but it's up to them to establish those boundaries.

It's never up to you to step in and decide if/when it's okay for someone to ask, unless they are being obviously obnoxious and the person seems like they could use a rescue. But this isn't a disability thing, it's a basic social cues thing.

At no point is it on you to set the boundaries for another person. What you could do though, is say you were out with a close friend who made a comment to a young woman with crutches. If you're super close with them and they can take a ribbing, you could be like "OMG, I'm sorry for my rude ass friend." Or if they're more sensitive or you're just not that good friends, you could politely mention to them that they basically just asked for the intimate medical information of a stranger and that's kind of weird.

Interjecting with a stranger though? N'ah, that's none of your business and I would find it presumptive that yet another stranger thinks it's their place to butt in to my business, plus I don't need a rescuer. I'm crippled, not fragile.

Okay...well I am literally fragile...but that's not the point. Lol

So, to clarify, I'm not thinking interjecting to set boundaries and say a message of effectively, "How rude".  I said deflecting specifically because I'm thinking how one can take the pressure off someone else from feeling forced to respond.  For example, my freshman year in college very late one night Friend A asked Friend B if they were gay.  Friend B had previously told me that they were indeed gay, but they did not want it known.  I forget what I said exactly but I jumped in and said something to distract everyone, the moment passed, my friend didn't have to respond then and he was quite grateful to me for deflecting the conversation from him. (Sometime the next year he came out.)

I agree that jumping in all the time to other people's conversations is not appropriate (in case it wasn't clear above, I'm also talking about where you are not a stranger - you know at least one party of the conversation).  But, there are times when it seems a person might be hesitating to answer so I'm wondering if there are any simple phrases to say and deflect attention. It's probably situation specific, but for example I remember an advice columnists suggest saying something like "why do you ask?" when you are the recipient of the rude query. It's a general reaction that can be used in many situations.

I think feelings on this are going to vary, so you may well step on the feelings of the person.  As Malcat said, most people don't need rescuing and some will see a rescue attempt as more problematic than the thing from which you are trying to rescue them.  That said, I find a "Wow!  We are getting really personal today!" or similar can be a reasonable deflection, when appropriate. (It's just that "when appropriate" part that can be dicey.!)  It allows everyone to chuckle (even if artificially) and then the questionee can either say, "no, it's fine.  I lost my legs in a freak wood chipper incident..." or "yeah, next thing you know we'll be talking politics, so we'd better rein it in" and not give the real answer.  Again though, proceed with caution; I usually reserve this approach for someone I know quite well, when I can be absolutely certain they will appreciate the intervention. 

[Metalcat]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Malcat.

I will say I felt awkward recently on the other side of this encounter, as a bystander when someone asked another person about their disability.  I froze and was not sure how to respond so I didn't say anything.  In fairness, they are not strangers, we all serve on a Board together (he's a newcomer on the Board, but known from his longstanding involvement in the activity).  It was also at a small social gathering with some family members and he didn't appear to mind, but awkward nonetheless to me to probe on when the person lost their sight and another related question or two. 

So mustachians, I ask you: What are deflection responses I can interject in the future as an observer?

As I said above, there's a certain level of intimacy with a person where it becomes pretty reasonable to ask. For me, I don't consider questions about my disability to be any more invasive than questions about whether I'm married or have kids.

That sounds like a context where those kinds of questions would be reasonable. I would personally have no problem with fellow board members asking about my disability as long as they were polite about it.

Other people with disabilities might not be so comfortable, but it's up to them to establish those boundaries.

It's never up to you to step in and decide if/when it's okay for someone to ask, unless they are being obviously obnoxious and the person seems like they could use a rescue. But this isn't a disability thing, it's a basic social cues thing.

At no point is it on you to set the boundaries for another person. What you could do though, is say you were out with a close friend who made a comment to a young woman with crutches. If you're super close with them and they can take a ribbing, you could be like "OMG, I'm sorry for my rude ass friend." Or if they're more sensitive or you're just not that good friends, you could politely mention to them that they basically just asked for the intimate medical information of a stranger and that's kind of weird.

Interjecting with a stranger though? N'ah, that's none of your business and I would find it presumptive that yet another stranger thinks it's their place to butt in to my business, plus I don't need a rescuer. I'm crippled, not fragile.

Okay...well I am literally fragile...but that's not the point. Lol

So, to clarify, I'm not thinking interjecting to set boundaries and say a message of effectively, "How rude".  I said deflecting specifically because I'm thinking how one can take the pressure off someone else from feeling forced to respond.  For example, my freshman year in college very late one night Friend A asked Friend B if they were gay.  Friend B had previously told me that they were indeed gay, but they did not want it known.  I forget what I said exactly but I jumped in and said something to distract everyone, the moment passed, my friend didn't have to respond then and he was quite grateful to me for deflecting the conversation from him. (Sometime the next year he came out.)

I agree that jumping in all the time to other people's conversations is not appropriate (in case it wasn't clear above, I'm also talking about where you are not a stranger - you know at least one party of the conversation).  But, there are times when it seems a person might be hesitating to answer so I'm wondering if there are any simple phrases to say and deflect attention. It's probably situation specific, but for example I remember an advice columnists suggest saying something like "why do you ask?" when you are the recipient of the rude query. It's a general reaction that can be used in many situations.

I think feelings on this are going to vary, so you may well step on the feelings of the person.  As Malcat said, most people don't need rescuing and some will see a rescue attempt as more problematic than the thing from which you are trying to rescue them.  That said, I find a "Wow!  We are getting really personal today!" or similar can be a reasonable deflection, when appropriate. (It's just that "when appropriate" part that can be dicey.!)  It allows everyone to chuckle (even if artificially) and then the questionee can either say, "no, it's fine.  I lost my legs in a freak wood chipper incident..." or "yeah, next thing you know we'll be talking politics, so we'd better rein it in" and not give the real answer.  Again though, proceed with caution; I usually reserve this approach for someone I know quite well, when I can be absolutely certain they will appreciate the intervention.

Exactly this.

I personally am a woman and would be very irritated by a "white knight" stepping in just because someone said something dumb to me.

I already specified that if the scenario is one where you would feel the need to step in regardless of the circumstances because someone is very clearly making someone else uncomfortable and the other person is obviously in need of aide, then yeah, interject. But that's not related to the person being disabled, that could happen to anyone for any reason.

But if I'm just bothered by a stranger butting their nose in to my medical business, then the last thing I need is another stranger butting their nose into my business.

So no, there is no reliable way to step in because there's no reliable reason to step in just because the person is disabled.

[Dicey]

Today as I was leaving Costco, there was a person approaching who was using forearm crutches. They were moving very, very slowly. They were also very shaky. My Costco is a Top 10 volume warehouse, which means it's a fucking zoo pretty much all the time. Today, Tuesday at 4:00pm was no exception.  I wanted to stop, offer them help, get them a scooter (or cart), offer to shop for them...something! But I remembered this thread. I smiled and said hello as I stayed well clear of their crutch tips with my giant Costco cart. I love it that my brain remembered Malcat's admonition and I didn't do or say anything stupid. I have to figure they got from their home to the parking lot, and from there to the front entrance, so it wasn't my place to determine that they couldn't handle the rest of it. Thanks, Malcat!

[Miss Piggy]

I can't tell you how many times a day total strangers stop me and ask for my personal medical history. If one more total rando asks me "You look so young to need a cane, what happened to you?" I swear I'm *this close* to responding "OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING BAD YOU FUCKNUCKLE!!!!"

I would never in a million years ask a question like this...UNLESS it was guaranteed that I would hear the word fucknuckle come out of the other person's mouth. Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted. ;)

But really, this is super-crappy and totally deserved a rant.

[Metalcat]

Today as I was leaving Costco, there was a person approaching who was using forearm crutches. They were moving very, very slowly. They were also very shaky. My Costco is a Top 10 volume warehouse, which means it's a fucking zoo pretty much all the time. Today, Tuesday at 4:00pm was no exception.  I wanted to stop, offer them help, get them a scooter (or cart), offer to shop for them...something! But I remembered this thread. I smiled and said hello as I stayed well clear of their crutch tips with my giant Costco cart. I love it that my brain remembered Malcat's admonition and I didn't do or say anything stupid. I have to figure they got from their home to the parking lot, and from there to the front entrance, so it wasn't my place to determine that they couldn't handle the rest of it. Thanks, Malcat!

Lol, that's not exactly the message I was trying to convey.

I have no problem with people legitimately offering me help, but I do t speak for every disabled person out there. I'm very grateful for people who hold doors open for me, which is really fucking hard when both your hands are occupied with crutches.

Legitimate help is cool IMO, and quick, polite offers of "do you need any help?" also don't bother me. Arm crutches are a bitch. To a point that I don't actually use them when I'm traveling because it's so hard to manage with them by myself without DH to help. I honestly don't know how people live independently with them.

I've used armpit crutches before and you can kind of use your arms when you need to, but arm crutches are a different beast to manage, and mine are quite heavy too, and it's very awkward to put them down. It's a struggle to function in the world with them.

What offends me is people's morbid curiosity combined with their ridiculous sense of entitlement to know. There's no benefit to me when someone interrupts my day to satisfy their curiosity as to "what happened to me?" Someone stopping what they are doing to see if I need help? I'm super okay with that, as long as they're not creepy about it. Some dudes are VERY creepy, they love a chick who can't run. But don't get me started on that, that would make for a much darker thread.

So...yeah. For me, as someone who is not a spokesperson for disabled folks, I definitely don't want to discourage people from politely offering to help. I couldn't function in the world if people didn't regularly help me. Having both hands occupied is VERY difficult.

[Captain FIRE]

Yeah, I was wondering about that, because I was going to say that I'll hold the door open for the mom juggling kids and bags, the elderly person, the person with disabilities....and like Dicey, I too read what you wrote as don't for the person with disabilities.

I think a key point though is that people do differ and not everyone prefers the same thing.  Even disability spokepersons differ I'm sure on what exactly they are advocating for. I attended a work training a few weeks ago where we were explicitly told as bystanders we ought to jump in when we see issues, which ranged from sexual harassment to racial discrimination to hostile work environment that included a lack of sensitivity around disability. There was a video about moving illegally placed boxes so the person in the wheelchair could navigate the hallways, another about discussing personal health information, etc.

I like the "wow, we're getting personal today" for a possible remark in appropriate situations - that's exactly along the lines of what I was trying to think of.  (And yes, I did mean something that can be used in broader situations than disability-related, which is why I gave the example of asking about sexual orientation.)

[Metalcat]

I'm absolutely fascinated that people read my rant about people asking invasive personal questions as a recommendation not to help people with disabilities.

That's not a criticism, it's just highly unexpected and is making me think about how I talk about my experience as a person with a highly visible disability.

I REALLY don't want to ever discourage people from feeling like it's okay to offer genuine help.

[Just_Me]

I'm absolutely fascinated that people read my rant about people asking invasive personal questions as a recommendation not to help people with disabilities.

That's not a criticism, it's just highly unexpected and is making me think about how I talk about my experience as a person with a highly visible disability.

I REALLY don't want to ever discourage people from feeling like it's okay to offer genuine help.

My take on it was more along the lines of probably how you intended it because of well ... Disabilities. However maybe there's a nuance in there about *something* that stands out to those with disabilities versus those without.

Maybe expanding on your interpretation of asking about a disability versus asking about personal medical history could help a bit.

@Captain FIRE yes things like "wow we're getting personal today" are pretty good at cutting the steam out. For those who are newly struggling, it may be hard for them to assert those boundaries. Again with strangers it may not always be welcome, but for me anytime somebody asks about my condition I start with "well that can be an emotionally difficult question for some people to answer, but I'm okay talking about it" because I'm a pretty open book with friends and okay with where I am. Not everybody is that way though. For the aware folks it helps them understand that it's a hard question, and for the unaware who gives AF.

I can see where disability advocates differ. It's because there's a wide range of disabilities and it almost feels like the "cure for cancer" as there's not a solution that fits all. Awareness is probably the biggest step you can make as any accommodation is based on that particular individual.

@Dicey next time rather than making the decision to not help them, instead of acting first you can ask first if you can help. A simple no should mean no, and yes means yes. Same goes for struggling parents or whatever.

A small bit of advice though, if you can sympathize based on personal experience (kids, similar medical condition, etc) with the person feel free, but keep expressions of empathy to offers of help. When people try to relate to a chronic condition because they hurt themselves playing golf, it turns the offer of help into an insult and makes me want to stab them. My $0.02

[Villanelle]

I'm absolutely fascinated that people read my rant about people asking invasive personal questions as a recommendation not to help people with disabilities.

That's not a criticism, it's just highly unexpected and is making me think about how I talk about my experience as a person with a highly visible disability.

I REALLY don't want to ever discourage people from feeling like it's okay to offer genuine help.

I didn't take it that way at all, if it helps.  I figure I'd ask a mom juggling a gaggle of kids if I could grab her a cart (or hold the door, or whatever quick assistance is relevant to the situation), so I'd ask a person using a mobility aid of some kind, or similar.  "Would you like me to gran you a cart?" isn't overly personal in the way that, "what happened to your legs/arm/face/eyes/hearing/wahtever" is. 

That said, I'll share this story, for whatever it's worth.  First, as background, I have social anxiety, which can be fairly extreme at times, and my particular brand of anxiety is especially triggered by the fear that I will somehow offend or hurt someone else.  This particular incident happened while I was in active weekly therapy, and was the subject of more than one session.  This happened almost 20 years ago and when I think about it, I still feel the sting of humiliation (that's not quite the right word, but I'm not sure what is), which shows how much if affected me, though most of that is my own issues, not an actual proportionate response to the situation.

I was at the opera with DH and some friends.  Intermission means everyone runs to the bathroom and there's a predictably huge line in the women's restroom.  The woman behind me was using a wheel chair.  IIRC, was one accessible stall.  When I was at the front of the line, the next stall that opened up was the accessible one.  I knew that if I used that one, the woman behind me would have to wait one full cycle, but a small stall would probably open up in a matter of seconds.  So I figured it made sense to let her go since that was the only, or one of the only, stalls she could use.  So I turned and said, "the handicapped stall is available if you'd like to go head." 

Now, I know "handicapped" is no longer the preferred word.  I never would have used it to describe a person, but for some reason, in my mind the bathroom stalls and parking places are "handicapped" stall/parking.  Even as the appropriate name for the human beings evolved, in my head the name for the stalls and spots didn't.

Well, this woman lost her shit at me.  She screamed that she was perfectly capable and that the term 'handicap' was offensive and outdated, and she didn't need my pity (I remember the pity comment and her umbrage at the handicapped term specifically), and probably a bunch of other things too, but I don't know because I legitimately mentally blacked out. This was in a bathroom full of several dozen people.  I hightailed it into a stall that opened up, sat in there trying to calm my breath and stave off a panic attack and tears, and basically waited until they blinked the lights to signal the end of intermission, because I couldn't face leaving the stall until I was confident that anyone who had witness the incident was likely gone.  If I'd been at the opera alone (or maybe even with only DH), I'd have just gone home.  I wasn't really okay for the rest of the night.

Again, let me acknowledge that I know that response is disproportionate to what happened. Also, in retrospect, she was an asshole.  I was quite clearly trying to be nice. If she didn't want to skip ahead, she could have just said 'no thank you'.  If she didn't like my terminology and really felt it needed to be addressed, she could have calmly told me that she and many others find the term offensive.  That still would have been hard for me because of my issues, but wouldn't have been nearly as bad. 

But all that said, it definitely made me hesitant (and continues to, to some extent, nearly 2 decades later) about well-intentioned offers of help to anyone I don't know, for just about any reason, but especially surrounding people with disabilities. 

[Just_Me]

I'm absolutely fascinated that people read my rant about people asking invasive personal questions as a recommendation not to help people with disabilities.

That's not a criticism, it's just highly unexpected and is making me think about how I talk about my experience as a person with a highly visible disability.

I REALLY don't want to ever discourage people from feeling like it's okay to offer genuine help.

I didn't take it that way at all, if it helps.  I figure I'd ask a mom juggling a gaggle of kids if I could grab her a cart (or hold the door, or whatever quick assistance is relevant to the situation), so I'd ask a person using a mobility aid of some kind, or similar.  "Would you like me to gran you a cart?" isn't overly personal in the way that, "what happened to your legs/arm/face/eyes/hearing/wahtever" is. 

That said, I'll share this story, for whatever it's worth.  First, as background, I have social anxiety, which can be fairly extreme at times, and my particular brand of anxiety is especially triggered by the fear that I will somehow offend or hurt someone else.  This particular incident happened while I was in active weekly therapy, and was the subject of more than one session.  This happened almost 20 years ago and when I think about it, I still feel the sting of humiliation (that's not quite the right word, but I'm not sure what is), which shows how much if affected me, though most of that is my own issues, not an actual proportionate response to the situation.

I was at the opera with DH and some friends.  Intermission means everyone runs to the bathroom and there's a predictably huge line in the women's restroom.  The woman behind me was using a wheel chair.  IIRC, was one accessible stall.  When I was at the front of the line, the next stall that opened up was the accessible one.  I knew that if I used that one, the woman behind me would have to wait one full cycle, but a small stall would probably open up in a matter of seconds.  So I figured it made sense to let her go since that was the only, or one of the only, stalls she could use.  So I turned and said, "the handicapped stall is available if you'd like to go head." 

Now, I know "handicapped" is no longer the preferred word.  I never would have used it to describe a person, but for some reason, in my mind the bathroom stalls and parking places are "handicapped" stall/parking.  Even as the appropriate name for the human beings evolved, in my head the name for the stalls and spots didn't.

Well, this woman lost her shit at me.  She screamed that she was perfectly capable and that the term 'handicap' was offensive and outdated, and she didn't need my pity (I remember the pity comment and her umbrage at the handicapped term specifically), and probably a bunch of other things too, but I don't know because I legitimately mentally blacked out. This was in a bathroom full of several dozen people.  I hightailed it into a stall that opened up, sat in there trying to calm my breath and stave off a panic attack and tears, and basically waited until they blinked the lights to signal the end of intermission, because I couldn't face leaving the stall until I was confident that anyone who had witness the incident was likely gone.  If I'd been at the opera alone (or maybe even with only DH), I'd have just gone home.  I wasn't really okay for the rest of the night.

Again, let me acknowledge that I know that response is disproportionate to what happened. Also, in retrospect, she was an asshole.  I was quite clearly trying to be nice. If she didn't want to skip ahead, she could have just said 'no thank you'.  If she didn't like my terminology and really felt it needed to be addressed, she could have calmly told me that she and many others find the term offensive.  That still would have been hard for me because of my issues, but wouldn't have been nearly as bad. 

But all that said, it definitely made me hesitant (and continues to, to some extent, nearly 2 decades later) about well-intentioned offers of help to anyone I don't know, for just about any reason, but especially surrounding people with disabilities.

Rough. But understandable on your hesitance to offer help. You've gotta decide what's more valuable to you, not offending one person again at the risk of triggering another anxiety attack, or working through your fears understanding that not everybody wants help and those reactions occur. If you value helping others, work through it. If you'd rather save your energy for something you value more (being present for family for example) just move along with your day. You're going to upset people no matter what. It could be because you offered help. It could be because you ignored them.

[FrugalShrew]

Ugh sorry you have to deal with that, Malcat, and thank you for the PSA.

It's a shame how often well-intentioned comments can be hurtful. I've literally had medical professionals tell me, "You're young and healthy," at a time when I had crushing exhaustion that was so bad I could not work and was forced to spend most of the day in bed. Like your experience, they somehow thought it was a nice thing to say. But it was incredibly dismissive of what I was going through.

In addition, a lot of people are just nosy, and whether that is asking an inappropriate question or offering inappropriate commentary, you're right that there are certain areas where people have a weird sense of entitlement. I don't know where it comes from, and I'm sure I have been guilty of it, too. Unfortunately, societal scripts around disability, chronic illness, grief, dying, etc. are really lacking, even when people want to do and say the right thing. In any case, it's a good thing to have on my radar and work on improving.

@Villanelle, I'm so sorry you had that awful experience arising out of your intention to be kind. There was probably some history there that caused the outsized reaction, but your generosity did not merit such vitriol. It sounds like you are already aware of that, but here's one internet stranger trying to offer some additional validation!

[Metalcat]

Ugh sorry you have to deal with that, Malcat, and thank you for the PSA.

It's a shame how often well-intentioned comments can be hurtful. I've literally had medical professionals tell me, "You're young and healthy," at a time when I had crushing exhaustion that was so bad I could not work and was forced to spend most of the day in bed. Like your experience, they somehow thought it was a nice thing to say. But it was incredibly dismissive of what I was going through.

In addition, a lot of people are just nosy, and whether that is asking an inappropriate question or offering inappropriate commentary, you're right that there are certain areas where people have a weird sense of entitlement. I don't know where it comes from, and I'm sure I have been guilty of it, too. Unfortunately, societal scripts around disability, chronic illness, grief, dying, etc. are really lacking, even when people want to do and say the right thing. In any case, it's a good thing to have on my radar and work on improving.

@Villanelle, I'm so sorry you had that awful experience arising out of your intention to be kind. There was probably some history there that caused the outsized reaction, but your generosity did not merit such vitriol. It sounds like you are already aware of that, but here's one internet stranger trying to offer some additional validation!

For the record, I never find these comments from people hurtful, but people could.

I wrote this thread more from a place of humour than anything else.But yes, you nailed it by saying that the issue is people's social scripts are lacking in the disabilities department.

We haven't quite made it into the woke, public discourse. We're kind of there on the fringe, but most people, even the progressive, conscious ones just get kind of "deer in headlights" not really knowing what they can and cannot say.

OH!!!

I totally forgot to tell everyone what my default response is when people ask about my crutches! I can't believe I forgot, but I guess because I say it so often, it's just become second nature to me. I came up with this to say to Bianca Del Rio when I met her last year, and I've defaulted to it since.

My default response when someone asks is to say "Oh, there's nothing wrong with me, I just really like attention."

[FrugalShrew]

For the record, I never find these comments from people hurtful, but people could.

That's good, and I'm not sure why I inferred it!

My default response when someone asks is to say "Oh, there's nothing wrong with me, I just really like attention."

Hahaha that's amazing.

[Metalcat]

For the record, I never find these comments from people hurtful, but people could.

That's good, and I'm not sure why I inferred it!

My default response when someone asks is to say "Oh, there's nothing wrong with me, I just really like attention."

Hahaha that's amazing.

Probably the exclamation point and the caps?

I forget that not everyone here participates in my journal and recognizes my particular brand of humour. Take everything I write here with a bit of a stand up comedy delivery and you will understand me perfectly.

[Villanelle]

I'm absolutely fascinated that people read my rant about people asking invasive personal questions as a recommendation not to help people with disabilities.

That's not a criticism, it's just highly unexpected and is making me think about how I talk about my experience as a person with a highly visible disability.

I REALLY don't want to ever discourage people from feeling like it's okay to offer genuine help.

I didn't take it that way at all, if it helps.  I figure I'd ask a mom juggling a gaggle of kids if I could grab her a cart (or hold the door, or whatever quick assistance is relevant to the situation), so I'd ask a person using a mobility aid of some kind, or similar.  "Would you like me to gran you a cart?" isn't overly personal in the way that, "what happened to your legs/arm/face/eyes/hearing/wahtever" is. 

That said, I'll share this story, for whatever it's worth.  First, as background, I have social anxiety, which can be fairly extreme at times, and my particular brand of anxiety is especially triggered by the fear that I will somehow offend or hurt someone else.  This particular incident happened while I was in active weekly therapy, and was the subject of more than one session.  This happened almost 20 years ago and when I think about it, I still feel the sting of humiliation (that's not quite the right word, but I'm not sure what is), which shows how much if affected me, though most of that is my own issues, not an actual proportionate response to the situation.

I was at the opera with DH and some friends.  Intermission means everyone runs to the bathroom and there's a predictably huge line in the women's restroom.  The woman behind me was using a wheel chair.  IIRC, was one accessible stall.  When I was at the front of the line, the next stall that opened up was the accessible one.  I knew that if I used that one, the woman behind me would have to wait one full cycle, but a small stall would probably open up in a matter of seconds.  So I figured it made sense to let her go since that was the only, or one of the only, stalls she could use.  So I turned and said, "the handicapped stall is available if you'd like to go head." 

Now, I know "handicapped" is no longer the preferred word.  I never would have used it to describe a person, but for some reason, in my mind the bathroom stalls and parking places are "handicapped" stall/parking.  Even as the appropriate name for the human beings evolved, in my head the name for the stalls and spots didn't.

Well, this woman lost her shit at me.  She screamed that she was perfectly capable and that the term 'handicap' was offensive and outdated, and she didn't need my pity (I remember the pity comment and her umbrage at the handicapped term specifically), and probably a bunch of other things too, but I don't know because I legitimately mentally blacked out. This was in a bathroom full of several dozen people.  I hightailed it into a stall that opened up, sat in there trying to calm my breath and stave off a panic attack and tears, and basically waited until they blinked the lights to signal the end of intermission, because I couldn't face leaving the stall until I was confident that anyone who had witness the incident was likely gone.  If I'd been at the opera alone (or maybe even with only DH), I'd have just gone home.  I wasn't really okay for the rest of the night.

Again, let me acknowledge that I know that response is disproportionate to what happened. Also, in retrospect, she was an asshole.  I was quite clearly trying to be nice. If she didn't want to skip ahead, she could have just said 'no thank you'.  If she didn't like my terminology and really felt it needed to be addressed, she could have calmly told me that she and many others find the term offensive.  That still would have been hard for me because of my issues, but wouldn't have been nearly as bad. 

But all that said, it definitely made me hesitant (and continues to, to some extent, nearly 2 decades later) about well-intentioned offers of help to anyone I don't know, for just about any reason, but especially surrounding people with disabilities.

Rough. But understandable on your hesitance to offer help. You've gotta decide what's more valuable to you, not offending one person again at the risk of triggering another anxiety attack, or working through your fears understanding that not everybody wants help and those reactions occur. If you value helping others, work through it. If you'd rather save your energy for something you value more (being present for family for example) just move along with your day. You're going to upset people no matter what. It could be because you offered help. It could be because you ignored them.

I definitely do still offer help when I think it's the right answer, but my gut lurches a little bit every time.  A combination of counseling, stubbornness, and just feeling compelled to do what feels kind is enough to overcome that lurch, but it's definitely still there. 

[MrGreen]

My dad lost one of his pinkie fingers in a farming accident before I was born. Whenever someone would ask him how he lost it he would always give a ridiculous answer but with a serious tone and facial expression that conveyed fact. When I was a kid I thought his responses were dumb but in his last years when I saw him more it was an absolute joy to see people's brains melt as they tried to comprehend how someone could lose their finger that way. You could watch the whole thing on their faces and it was addictively satisfying. If you can pull that off it might become a source of glee. I suspect your experience is why he started giving those kinds of answers in the first place.

[Metalcat]

My dad lost one of his pinkie fingers in a farming accident before I was born. Whenever someone would ask him how he lost it he would always give a ridiculous answer but with a serious tone and facial expression that conveyed fact. When I was a kid I thought his responses were dumb but in his last years when I saw him more it was an absolute joy to see people's brains melt as they tried to comprehend how someone could lose their finger that way. You could watch the whole thing on their faces and it was addictively satisfying. If you can pull that off it might become a source of glee. I suspect your experience is why he started giving those kinds of answers in the first place.

This is exactly what I do when I'm in the mood for it.

My post was triggered by several incidences on a day where I was in no mood for this nonsense. I had had a difficult day medically and was coming home from a painful procedure and making unpleasant stops to pick up medications and other necessities.

I was in pain and really wasn't in any mood to have randos ask invasive questions about my obvious pain. That's when it hit me how entitled the questions were.