Poll

Who you voting for?

Obama
90 (59.2%)
Romney
22 (14.5%)
Other
40 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 147

Voting closed: October 31, 2012, 09:49:48 AM

Author Topic: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll  (Read 34781 times)

tooqk4u22

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Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« on: October 26, 2012, 09:49:48 AM »
Just wanted to conduct an unofficial poll of the MMM community.  Not looking for a debate here as to who or why, so no need to make comments - unless of course you want to.

Thought it would be interesting to see how the MMM community swayed.


jpo

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 09:56:00 AM »
Already early voted, Gary Johnson this time around for me. He was the only 3rd party on the NC ballot, no Jill Stein or anyone else.

I probably would have voted for anyone who was serious about balancing the budget and wasn't too far out there with their weird social theories.

frugalcalan

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 10:08:13 AM »
I'm in Illinois, I wonder who is going to win this state?

My thoughts on the election are that either way, I can't lose.  Obama wins?  Better for the country.  Romney wins?  Better for me personally.

It's good to look on the bright side, no?

unitsinc

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 10:12:12 AM »
I'm in Illinois, I wonder who is going to win this state?

My thoughts on the election are that either way, I can't lose.  Obama wins?  Better for the country.  Romney wins?  Better for me personally.

It's good to look on the bright side, no?

I never looked at it that way. I like the optimism.

savingtofreedom

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 10:23:34 AM »
I'm in Illinois, I wonder who is going to win this state?

My thoughts on the election are that either way, I can't lose.  Obama wins?  Better for the country.  Romney wins?  Better for me personally.

It's good to look on the bright side, no?

I guess I can see this if you are a man, but not so much as a female.

frugalcalan

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 10:29:14 AM »
My thoughts on the election are that either way, I can't lose.  Obama wins?  Better for the country.  Romney wins?  Better for me personally.

It's good to look on the bright side, no?

I guess I can see this if you are a man, but not so much as a female.

I'm a woman.  Like I said, good for me personally, mostly because the "no capital gains tax for those making under $200k" would be stellar for me (despite the fact that I find his taxation policy unfeasible, and unethical).  As for birth control, I've got an IUD so I'm set at least until the next election.  And if I needed an abortion anyway... well, money can buy a lot of things.  I've got friends in Canada I've been meaning to visit for some time now.

grantmeaname

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 10:45:12 AM »
I'm voting Obama. Normally I'm a non-voter on moral grounds, but I'm voting as a Christmas present to somebody. So, yeah, that happened.

I guess I can see this if you are a man, but not so much as a female.
It's not that simple. Males and females both participate in the economy and have many social issues at stake, not just contraception and abortion,  which is why nearly half of women are voting for Romney even though the left would argue that he's trying to destroy American womanhood. Note too that males and females both have a stake in reproductive discussions, and many females as well as many males are opposed to contraception and abortion (you'll note that this point remains whether or not you think they're dumbasses, because we live in a democracy).

Edited to not be as much of an asshole. Whoops.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 11:13:18 AM by grantmeaname »

arebelspy

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 10:53:59 AM »
I voted "none of the above" in the 2008 election because there is no write-ins available in my state.

My state recently removed that none of the above option due to it taking away too many votes from the two parties (and one in particular).

So I likely will be voting Gary Johnson, hoping that a third party can garner at least 5% to get federal funding in the next election.

I would vote Obama for several reasons, but human rights abuse is one of my hot buttons, and the fact that the Patriot Act still exists steams me.

I'm voting for Heller as senator from my state for the sole reason that he was one of only 12 nay votes to extend it in 2011.

Thanks for keeping this thread civil so far.  State your opinion = fine.  Attack someone else's = not.
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new2this

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 10:56:48 AM »
Romney. He's the only one I feel can get the budget balanced and get the economy turned around.

TomTX

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 11:01:54 AM »
I'm hardly in a "battleground" state. Texas will give its electoral votes to Romney.

Therefore, I'm completely free to vote for Gary Johnson.

AJ

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 11:07:12 AM »
Interesting timing, as I just finished reading this transcript about voting from Freakononics: http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/10/25/we-the-sheeple-full-transcript/

I found it really interested, if somewhat defeating. I wasn't going to vote at all, until arebelspy presented a good argument for voting third party.

TLV

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 11:11:29 AM »
Another vote for Gary Johnson, thanks to arebelspy's info about 3rd parties.

grantmeaname

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 11:14:02 AM »
Arebelspy's quite the political tastemaker.

TheDude

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2012, 11:16:02 AM »
I would vote Obama for several reasons, but human rights abuse is one of my hot buttons, and the fact that the Patriot Act still exists steams me.

I pretty whole heartily agree with his statement. I am having hard time since I live in a state that is a toss up. I want to vote for Gary but if I do and Romney wins I will be pretty disappointed.


KulshanGirl

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2012, 11:43:21 AM »
I cast my vote for Obama already.  For me, it's about the Supreme Court.  I am horrified at the direction the country could take if a social conservative gets to appoint the next couple of SC justices.  The economy is a big deal, but at least everyone wants to see it get better.   Overturning choice, squashing equality and thwarting progress is not something I'm okay with today or down the line.

Also, I must give a shoutout to my state for potentially being the first to uphold gay marriage by a vote of the people.  Not that we should be voting on civil rights in the first place. 

zoltani

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2012, 11:56:39 AM »
And potentially the first (or one of three) state to legalize MJ?  How'd you cast your vote on that one?

cbr shadow

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 12:03:18 PM »
I'm voting for Obama for several reasons, but the topic of Unions kills me, especially since I'm from Chicago.  Too many gigantic inefficiencies here that just dont exist in other cities. 

KulshanGirl

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 12:04:38 PM »
Thumbs up on that one too. 

Jamesqf

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 12:24:25 PM »
Haven't decided yet: maybe Obama, maybe Johnson.

Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

unitsinc

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 12:31:10 PM »
Haven't decided yet: maybe Obama, maybe Johnson.

Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

But he's a business man!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-a-businessman-help-the-economy-for-presidents-the-answer-has-been-no/2012/10/19/3e96459e-17ab-11e2-9855-71f2b202721b_story.html?hpid=z3


Edit: On a more serious note, I do think Obama has spent vastly more money than he should, and for me, that is the biggest strike against him. I just don't think Romney would do any better with the budget since from all the numbers I've seen, the last few Republican presidents also spent more than the recent Democratic presidents(Obama aside.)

Edit 2: And of course, it's not all on the President for the spending, but he's the one that gets the most spotlight time/heat.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 12:47:41 PM by unitsinc »

Russ

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 12:34:05 PM »
Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

If you have real numbers and stats I, as an undecided voter, would love to see them. This party-line BS, on the other hand, probably won't change anybody's mind.

Sparafusile

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 01:10:56 PM »
I'll vote Obama to see the current health care reforms go through. As the husband of a small business owner, and hopeful future small business owner, the cost of health care is really holding us back. The switched jobs recently and the #1 question I had to ask was "do you provide health care?". I refused good offers based on the answer to that question.

As a mostly democrat, I have to admit some of Romney's policies do appeal to me. Just not enough to swing me towards his party.

grantmeaname

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 01:16:17 PM »
Before you vote based on the Romney threat of repealing Obamacare, I'd familiarize yourself with the process. The received wisdom I've seen is that it's 1) politically unfeasible, and 2) not really based on Romney as much as the Congressional races. I can't find the original link I saw, but this article seems to sum a bit of it up.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 01:22:43 PM »
Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

Not entirely true - politics are somewhat of a fraud and the President really doesn't matter that much other than providing some leadership.  Obama would be well ahead if he only showed a tiny bit of leadership - take the fiscal cliff all he has to do is try to deal with it and act like it matters and give firm speeches that he wants it dealt with NOW (instead he says we'll deal with it after the election) - no leadership, not to mention if he did do this it would give him another chance to show the republicans aren't willing to cooperate. 

Dems still blame bush but everybody forgets that Bush inherited the dot com bust (dot com boom is the only reason there was surplus under Clinton) and he was dealt 9/11. The politicians (both sides of the aisle) that crucified the financial sector after the meltdown were the same ones that pushed of deregulation, increased homeownership, more aggressive terms from fannie mae and freddie mac, etc. Barney Frank was the biggest hypocrite of them all. 

Both parties played a roll, both suck - we need a new party.  Unfortunately most people are generally in the middle but swing one way or the other due to some social issue.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2012, 01:25:03 PM »
Before you vote based on the Romney threat of repealing Obamacare, I'd familiarize yourself with the process. The received wisdom I've seen is that it's 1) politically unfeasible, and 2) not really based on Romney as much as the Congressional races. I can't find the original link I saw, but this article seems to sum a bit of it up.

Yeah but congress wasn't democrat controlled when it passed and even within its own party wasn't real popular.

Setting that aside, the way government works is to leave the existing stuff alone and then add another program.  So expect to see Romney care on top of Obamacare. 

Scuba Stache

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 01:27:34 PM »
I voted "none of the above" in the 2008 election because there is no write-ins available in my state.

My state recently removed that none of the above option due to it taking away too many votes from the two parties (and one in particular).

So I likely will be voting Gary Johnson, hoping that a third party can garner at least 5% to get federal funding in the next election.

I would vote Obama for several reasons, but human rights abuse is one of my hot buttons, and the fact that the Patriot Act still exists steams me.

Thanks for keeping this thread civil so far.  State your opinion = fine.  Attack someone else's = not.
Bolding mine

I want to end the two party setup and getting Gary Johnson the 5% seems like the most likely approach to move towards that. Secondly, I actually agree with most of his platform, but simply pushing for more than two options is my driving factor.

grantmeaname

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 01:51:44 PM »
Yeah but congress wasn't democrat controlled when it passed and even within its own party wasn't real popular.

Setting that aside, the way government works is to leave the existing stuff alone and then add another program.  So expect to see Romney care on top of Obamacare.
Congress was strongly democrat controlled in 2009. Regardless, what I was trying to say was that no matter what politicians are saying they'll do to Obamacare if elected, repealing it is politically unfeasible, and so the repeal decision shouldn't be as much a part of your decision as it is a part of the political discourse. That's mostly empty political posturing, sound and fury signifying nothing.

arebelspy

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2012, 01:53:17 PM »
Whoops, didn't mean to actually influence anyone.

I am glad to see though so many Mustachians are in favor of trying to make third parties more viable, even at the "expense" of not voting for someone who everyone else will and seeming something of an oddball because of it.

Many other people I've discussed the idea with don't seem to grasp why our country might be better off with more than two choices, or merely hate the other parties candidate so much (often quite blindly, without actual reason) that they can't fathom not voting for the main individual they are against.

I suppose that's why many of us are here though, the ability (or unwillingness?) to accept the status quo of society for our own lives.

I will say though that I understand people in battleground states deciding to vote for one of the two main candidates.  I still won't, but I respect that decision. (And, of course, anyone who votes for one due to actual reasons, rather than thinking one color - red or blue - is better than the other.)

No offense - or influence - intended with the thoughts in this post.
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tooqk4u22

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2012, 02:13:04 PM »
Yeah but congress wasn't democrat controlled when it passed and even within its own party wasn't real popular.

Setting that aside, the way government works is to leave the existing stuff alone and then add another program.  So expect to see Romney care on top of Obamacare.
Congress was strongly democrat controlled in 2009. Regardless, what I was trying to say was that no matter what politicians are saying they'll do to Obamacare if elected, repealing it is politically unfeasible, and so the repeal decision shouldn't be as much a part of your decision as it is a part of the political discourse. That's mostly empty political posturing, sound and fury signifying nothing.

Sorry that was a typo - what you corrected is what I meant....it wasn't well received by the party that was in control.

And I agree with your point about political posturing, which was my point about seeing Romneycare on top of Obamacare.  System is broken.

atelierk

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2012, 05:14:46 PM »
If I lived in a swing state, I'd definitely vote for Obama. I don't though, so may vote for Jill Stein. I've voted for a third party candidate before: Ross Perot. (Twice.) BTW, I understand that if a pollster calls you up and you say you're voting for a third party candidate, the poll will record you as "undecided".

No way will I vote for Romney. He's done/said several things that make me seriously question his judgement. And his running mate scares the living daylights outta me.

What I find most interesting is that as "fiscally conservative" as Mustachianism is, the poll so far shows the Republican candidate far behind.

CB

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 05:19:05 PM »
What I find most interesting is that as "fiscally conservative" as Mustachianism is, the poll so far shows the Republican candidate far behind.

Fiscal conservatism and the Republican Party parted ways starting with Reagan.

FI@2022Jem

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2012, 06:27:13 PM »
He's done/said several things that make me seriously question his judgement. And his running mate scares the living daylights outta me.

my feelings exactly.

smalllife

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2012, 06:58:31 PM »
I'm undecided between Obama and Jill Stein.  I live in a hotly contested battleground state (and district) and the thought of Romney winning the presidency gives me shivers . . .  . so it's vote my principles or potentially influence an election.   

atelierk

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2012, 07:30:23 PM »
What I find most interesting is that as "fiscally conservative" as Mustachianism is, the poll so far shows the Republican candidate far behind.

Fiscal conservatism and the Republican Party parted ways starting with Reagan.

But that doesn't stop the Republican Party from still carrying the banner, knowing full well that a lot of (non-Mustachian) voters will buy into the dogma - despite all evidence to the contrary.

IMO, there's no such thing as a fiscally conservative politician of any stripe (damn few, anyway) because they're all dealing with Other People's Money. It's true what they say: nobody cares about your money like you do.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 07:34:50 PM by atelierk »

savingtofreedom

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2012, 09:06:00 PM »
I'm voting Obama. Normally I'm a non-voter on moral grounds, but I'm voting as a Christmas present to somebody. So, yeah, that happened.

I guess I can see this if you are a man, but not so much as a female.
It's not that simple. Males and females both participate in the economy and have many social issues at stake, not just contraception and abortion,  which is why nearly half of women are voting for Romney even though the left would argue that he's trying to destroy American womanhood. Note too that males and females both have a stake in reproductive discussions, and many females as well as many males are opposed to contraception and abortion (you'll note that this point remains whether or not you think they're dumbasses, because we live in a democracy).

Edited to not be as much of an asshole. Whoops.

You are correct.  This is not simple.  But I do believe the Republican party has gotten way too invested in my vagina and uterus.  It is more than just contraception and abortion. 

Contraception
Per Gallup, the general population is in favor of contraception - the Republicans in office - not so much

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/republican-war-birth-control-contraception



Abortion
I think Bill Clinton summed it up best -  "Abortion should not only be safe and legal, it should be rare."  While I understand that alot of America is against abortion, what totally baffles me is that Republicans will not only work to get rid of abortion but if you have the kid they want to remove the social programs to help the mother and father (if he is around) raise the baby.  Romney has flip flopped on this topic too.  Finally, to agree with KulshanGirl I am horrified at the direction the country could take if a social conservative gets to appoint the next couple of SC justices.



Infertility Treatments
Ryan co-sponsored a bill that could impact the availability of IVF treatments
http://www.examiner.com/article/a-vote-for-paul-ryan-is-a-vote-against-ivf

Access to Health Care
Equal Pay
Domestic Violence

Nicely summarized in this article
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/opinion/sunday/the-attack-on-women-is-real.html

That's not even discussing the economic issues.  To agree with unitsinc's point just because you are a "successfull" business man doesn't mean you will be a good president.  How Romney made his money is in many cases not a a viable approach to running a country. Paul Krugman at the NYTimes writes at length about this topic.

I am sick to my stomach about this election.  I really worry that Romney might win.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 09:18:25 PM by savingtofreedom »

Jamesqf

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2012, 09:56:45 PM »
Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

If you have real numbers and stats I, as an undecided voter, would love to see them. This party-line BS, on the other hand, probably won't change anybody's mind.

Wouldn't say it's party line, since I dislike Democrats about as much as I dislike Republicans.  I'm a registered Libertarian, and vote that way more than 90% of the time.

You'll have to go elsewhere for actual numbers (even if I kept track, I'm too lazy to type them out), but just for a quick outline: What did Bush do after 9/11?  Instead of urging people to respond to an attack by sharing the burden, he told Americans to GO EFFING SHOPPING!  Then he fights a war on borrowed money (mostly from China), instead of e.g. enacting a gas tax or something to cover the cost and discourage consumption.  (Which meant that the weapons being fired at our troops were paid for by American petrodollars.)  Then every time the economy started into a normal contraction part of the economic cycle, he'd jolt it with yet another stimulus package - like giving a drug addict bigger and bigger doses until he finally collapses - which is just what the economy did.

Russ

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2012, 10:38:35 PM »
Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

If you have real numbers and stats I, as an undecided voter, would love to see them. This party-line BS, on the other hand, probably won't change anybody's mind.

Wouldn't say it's party line, since I dislike Democrats about as much as I dislike Republicans.  I'm a registered Libertarian, and vote that way more than 90% of the time.

You'll have to go elsewhere for actual numbers (even if I kept track, I'm too lazy to type them out), but just for a quick outline: What did Bush do after 9/11?  Instead of urging people to respond to an attack by sharing the burden, he told Americans to GO EFFING SHOPPING!  Then he fights a war on borrowed money (mostly from China), instead of e.g. enacting a gas tax or something to cover the cost and discourage consumption.  (Which meant that the weapons being fired at our troops were paid for by American petrodollars.)  Then every time the economy started into a normal contraction part of the economic cycle, he'd jolt it with yet another stimulus package - like giving a drug addict bigger and bigger doses until he finally collapses - which is just what the economy did.

I don't necessarily mean party-line in that you're a Democrat; I mean more it in the sense that you've gone and assumed that every Republican has the same economic agenda. I won't pretend to be educated on the economic policies of the current candidates because I'm not, but I'm pretty sure the policy of a man who has been out of office for nearly 4 years is largely irrelevant to this year's election. Especially dangerous is extrapolating that policy to represent the whole Republican party, 4 years later. Maybe Romney has a decent plan. Of course, maybe he doesn't, but I won't assume that based on a former President's actions. I'll research Romney's plan, his past actions, and maybe the official Republican party agenda. And if people have well-reasoned opinions on the matter, I'll take them into consideration too. "Bush f'ed up" isn't a well-reasoned opinion, IMO.

Also, science fact: China owns only 8% of US public debt, approximately the same amount as Japan. You never hear about Japan in the news though... I guess it's easier for the media to get a good public reaction from big, scary China.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 11:01:31 PM by Russ »

keith

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2012, 01:54:42 AM »
Mailed in my ballot, already voted for Gary Johnson. Damn excited about it too.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2012, 11:48:23 AM »
I don't necessarily mean party-line in that you're a Democrat; I mean more it in the sense that you've gone and assumed that every Republican has the same economic agenda.

I haven't ASSUMED this, the Republicans have pretty much stated it all along.

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Maybe Romney has a decent plan. Of course, maybe he doesn't, but I won't assume that based on a former President's actions. I'll research Romney's plan, his past actions, and maybe the official Republican party agenda.

So why do you assume that I haven't done the same?  The Republicans in general are pretty open about wanting to go back to the same sorts of policies that they enacted under Bush.  Of course Romney hasn't put out anything more than broad generalizations, but I strongly suspect that's because he doesn't actually have anything more.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2012, 01:30:01 PM »
Gary Johnson--ditto on supporting viable 3rd party in this country.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2012, 03:49:49 PM »
You guys might find this article interesting:

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_progressive_case_against_obama/

I'm not sure I agree with some of it's conclusions, but as a liberal, it's one of the better pieces I've found on why I should vote for a third party.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »
Got to wonder, though, about the comments suggesting Romney would be better for the economy.  Have you folks all forgotten that it was 8 years of Republican economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place?

If you have real numbers and stats I, as an undecided voter, would love to see them. This party-line BS, on the other hand, probably won't change anybody's mind.

Here's your real numbers and stats:
http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2012/02/numero-ocho-in-which-i-point-out-that.html
I wrote this years ago, before Obama took office, but of course it has already been acknowledged in this thread that Obama has spent more than he should.
Republicans are not fiscally conservative.  Looking at the numbers, I don't see how anyone can even claim that, except perhaps as a joke.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2012, 05:32:09 PM »
We moved this year into a battleground state. I'm voting third party anyway and on my last check my husband planned to also.
In the last election I sold out to "fear" and voted for McCain, something I said I could never do, only to send a message about my lack of confidence in Obama. Since we were living in NJ at the time, I knew that my vote would have no effect on the way my state voted. The Democrat lead in NJ was(and almost always is)staggering.
I am no Obama fan. What has happened under his leadership is exactly what I knew would happen under his leadership and I can't even have the satisfaction of being proven right.
This time around I don't care if my vote makes no difference in who leads the country for the next 4 years. The two party system must end! It is positively sickening that over two billion dollars has been spent on this election. It's also globally embarrassing to imply by nomination that the two major contenders are the best we have to offer.
Our country is teeming with thousands of intelligent, highly eligible persons to run for the presidency, but the lack of "friends" and an independent fortune to get their foot in the door of the public is a deterrent that is cheating our country of real progress and intelligent leadership. Elections are now nothing more than elite popularity contests. It's a total perversion of the precepts laid out by the Founding Fathers.
Almost every one of my family members will also be voting third party so I have some hope that the independents of our country can accomplish federal funding of a third party in the next election.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2012, 07:47:01 PM »
I'm not going to defend his actual policies, (drone strikes and bailouts were very disappointing), but Obama's election absolutely did prove that you can get into the highest office with neither friends in high places nor an independent fortune.

This was a guy who grew up working class, started in grassroots local community organizing, and worked slowly into politics in exactly the way one would hope democracy to work.  By comparison the founding fathers were exactly the sort of privileged elites you are railing against.

kolorado

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2012, 08:52:25 PM »
[quote author=arebelspy link=topic=2327.msg33722#msg33722 date=1351270439

Thanks for keeping this thread civil so far.  State your opinion = fine.  Attack someone else's = not.
[/quote]

Ahem.
I could debate this with you but it won't change any minds to do so and would be a complete waste of my time. I will preemptively agree to disagree.

arebelspy

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »

Thanks for keeping this thread civil so far.  State your opinion = fine.  Attack someone else's = not.

Ahem.
I could debate this with you but it won't change any minds to do so and would be a complete waste of my time. I will preemptively agree to disagree.

I'm not sure I follow you.  You disagree that it's okay to state one's opinion?  Or you disagree that it's not okay to attack someone else's?

The thread did get more contentious after I posted that, unfortunately.
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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2012, 09:08:02 PM »
You guys might find this article interesting:

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_progressive_case_against_obama/

I'm not sure I agree with some of it's conclusions, but as a liberal, it's one of the better pieces I've found on why I should vote for a third party.

But to me, it seems like an argument for Obama.  I have nothing whatsoever against inequality (indeed, aren't we as Mustachians trying to make ourselves unequal?).  As for anti-war arguments, we ARE at war, and nothing we can do (short of enforcing a mass conversion to Islam) will change that.  We can only decide whether we will defend ourselves effectively or not.

Even so, I certainly would never vote FOR Obama, in the sense that I basically approve of his policies & performance.  It's just that Romney is so much worse.  I apologize in advance if this offends anyone, but let me be as blunt as MMM likes to be: In Romney, you have a man who (unless he is a complete & utter hypocrite) actually believes in the fantasy story of Joe Smith and the Magic Spectacles.  Not only believes it, but spent several years of his life trying to persuade other people to believe it - and getting draft deferments in order to do so.  I don't want him, or anyone like him, in any position of power.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2012, 09:11:56 PM »
(Obama) was a guy who grew up working class...

Huh?  Mom's a graduate student, kid gets to travel, live in foreign countries, goes to an expensive private school and then Harvard.  I think we must have very different ideas on just what constitutes growing up "working class".

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2012, 09:17:49 PM »
we ARE at war, and nothing we can do (short of enforcing a mass conversion to Islam) will change that.  We can only decide whether we will defend ourselves effectively or not.

huh?
What would we be defending ourselves from? 
A single isolated attack does not constitute "war". 
And isn't it possible that the few radical Islamic extremists who would actively attempt to harm America would hate us a little less if we didn't have troops and corporations in their countries?  Desert Storm came before 9/11, not after.  They didn't attack Norway, or Brazil, which are just as not Islamic as we are.  For that matter, they didn't attack the Washington Monument or the Golden Gate bridge, they attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.  They don't "hate our freedom".  They hate our globalization, imperialism, and military intervention.

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Re: Presidential Election - Unofficial Poll
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2012, 09:18:50 PM »

Thanks for keeping this thread civil so far.  State your opinion = fine.  Attack someone else's = not.

Ahem.
I could debate this with you but it won't change any minds to do so and would be a complete waste of my time. I will preemptively agree to disagree.

I'm not sure I follow you.  You disagree that it's okay to state one's opinion?  Or you disagree that it's not okay to attack someone else's?

The thread did get more contentious after I posted that, unfortunately.

Oh, I quoted Bakari there too but I see it didn't show up in my post. My quote of you was directed at his response to my post. Sorry for the confusion. ;)