Political Current Events

[Davnasty]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

[Inaya]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

I go back and forth on this. Like Pence could definitely mobilize Congress toward some truly damaging legislation. But at least he won't get us nuked (and I say this only slightly hyperbolically).

ETA: How far do we need to go down that line of succession to find somebody who could not only clean up Trump's mess but also not set the country back half a century (or more)?

[Davnasty]

Something else I've thought about but haven't really seen discussed - how will his die hard followers react if he is impeached?

I think we've established that there are those who feel certain beyond any doubt that he is in the right. Therefore, any guilty verdict would be part of an ever increasing conspiracy.

How would you react if you felt your leader/savior was removed from office by nefarious means? And how do you think his most extreme/aggressive supporters will react?

[Jrr85]

Something else I've thought about but haven't really seen discussed - how will his die hard followers react if he is impeached?

I think we've established that there are those who feel certain beyond any doubt that he is in the right. Therefore, any guilty verdict would be part of an ever increasing conspiracy.

How would you react if you felt your leader/savior was removed from office by nefarious means? And how do you think his most extreme/aggressive supporters will react?

I'm pretty sure impeaching trump, at least based on anything suggested so far, would result in some level of violence, and at the very least would put the nation in a very precarious position.  Even if something solid turned up, the media has generally burned their credibility rushing to the fainting couch and crying hitler over every real or imagined misstep, no matter how slight, I'm not sure a lot of Trump's supporters would ever accept it was justified. 

I think the outrage would put us very close to not having enough mutual trust and civility as a society to have a functioning democracy/republic that handles changes in control smoothly.  A lot of people are being short sighted and stupid right now, including a lot of people who think of themselves as smart/elite despite all available evidence, and it's not going to work out well for anybody. 

[Peter Parker]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

[Kris]

Something else I've thought about but haven't really seen discussed - how will his die hard followers react if he is impeached?

I think we've established that there are those who feel certain beyond any doubt that he is in the right. Therefore, any guilty verdict would be part of an ever increasing conspiracy.

How would you react if you felt your leader/savior was removed from office by nefarious means? And how do you think his most extreme/aggressive supporters will react?

I'm pretty sure impeaching trump, at least based on anything suggested so far, would result in some level of violence, and at the very least would put the nation in a very precarious position.  Even if something solid turned up, the media has generally burned their credibility rushing to the fainting couch and crying hitler over every real or imagined misstep, no matter how slight, I'm not sure a lot of Trump's supporters would ever accept it was justified. 

I think the outrage would put us very close to not having enough mutual trust and civility as a society to have a functioning democracy/republic that handles changes in control smoothly.  A lot of people are being short sighted and stupid right now, including a lot of people who think of themselves as smart/elite despite all available evidence, and it's not going to work out well for anybody.

I agree. I was convinced there would be armed Trump supporters in the streets if Hillary was elected. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens if Trump is removed from office.

[DoubleDown]

What's interesting (and/or terrifying) about this whole thing is that until recently, Trump didn't even seem to care about intelligence. It only became relevant to him when he had the opportunity to boast about it.

He only reads security briefings if his name is in them.

Trump will quit before any impeachment proceedings begin. This job is too much for him and he arguably didn't really want it anyway. The only question is whether it happens before the midterms. If after, President Pence has a much harder time choosing his VP.

I can't fathom how anyone thinks he will quit. Trump hates "losing" more than anything. He needs to think he's winning. He needs to feel adored. He can't stand criticism. He will fight and deny to the bitter end.

I'm in the camp that thinks he would quit before being impeached. He'd say there's an obvious witch hunt out to get him, that it's impossible to get anything done in Washington because the lying MSM/elites/swamp want to continue their corrupt ways, and he refuses to be a part of it. He would say he "won" and intends to go back to his prior, winning life. There's plenty of precedent for him walking away from losing and calling it winning, like all his prior bankruptcies and failed businesses. Another example would be his $25M settlement for "Trump University" (cough/laugh). Any objective observer would call that an obvious loss on his part, but not Trump. He says he won and moved on for the good of the country, especially since the biased "Mexican" judge couldn't be trusted.

[former player]

Also, Trump will want to do a deal with his successor in order to get a Presidential pardon (probably the only way to save the Trump property business).  That probably means going while Pence will still be in a position to take up the Presidency, and that might not be the case if Trump holds out to the bitter end.

[dividendman]

If Trump doesn't get impeached/removed from office before the next presidential election and runs again... do you think he will get a primary challenge? I think that would be smart for the republicans.

[Just Joe]

He could call in Sarah Palin for political guidance on quitting early.

Yeah, I'd like to see a bunch of moderates in charge again. 

[Gin1984]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Kris]

What's interesting (and/or terrifying) about this whole thing is that until recently, Trump didn't even seem to care about intelligence. It only became relevant to him when he had the opportunity to boast about it.

He only reads security briefings if his name is in them.

Trump will quit before any impeachment proceedings begin. This job is too much for him and he arguably didn't really want it anyway. The only question is whether it happens before the midterms. If after, President Pence has a much harder time choosing his VP.

I can't fathom how anyone thinks he will quit. Trump hates "losing" more than anything. He needs to think he's winning. He needs to feel adored. He can't stand criticism. He will fight and deny to the bitter end.

I'm in the camp that thinks he would quit before being impeached. He'd say there's an obvious witch hunt out to get him, that it's impossible to get anything done in Washington because the lying MSM/elites/swamp want to continue their corrupt ways, and he refuses to be a part of it. He would say he "won" and intends to go back to his prior, winning life. There's plenty of precedent for him walking away from losing and calling it winning, like all his prior bankruptcies and failed businesses. Another example would be his $25M settlement for "Trump University" (cough/laugh). Any objective observer would call that an obvious loss on his part, but not Trump. He says he won and moved on for the good of the country, especially since the biased "Mexican" judge couldn't be trusted.

We'll see. I'd argue that those things happened more or less in private. Any public "loss" that would involve his mug having to admit defeat on TV just seems absolutely unthinkable to me. I can't imagine his narcissism would allow it.

I know from narcissism. My ex-husband showed many of those same traits. Once, when we were arguing in the car where he was driving and we were going sixty miles an hour on the freeway, he slammed on the brakes in the center lane and wrapped his hands around my throat. He risked both our lives so that he wouldn't have to hear something he didn't want to hear. I see Trump as that reckless. Which is why I hope that people around him have an "unconstitutional" plan about the nuclear codes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/opinion/trump-russia-mueller-special-counsel.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=1

"In 1974, as Richard Nixon’s presidency was collapsing, he was drinking heavily and aides worried that he was becoming unstable. Fearing what might go wrong, Nixon’s defense secretary, James Schlesinger, secretly instructed the military not to carry out any White House order to use nuclear weapons unless confirmed by him or Henry Kissinger.

This was unconstitutional. And wise."

[DavidAnnArbor]

Once, when we were arguing in the car where he was driving and we were going sixty miles an hour on the freeway, he slammed on the brakes in the center lane and wrapped his hands around my throat. He risked both our lives so that he wouldn't have to hear something he didn't want to hear.

Wow Kris I'm sorry that you experienced that. It's painful to think about.

[Kris]

Once, when we were arguing in the car where he was driving and we were going sixty miles an hour on the freeway, he slammed on the brakes in the center lane and wrapped his hands around my throat. He risked both our lives so that he wouldn't have to hear something he didn't want to hear.

Wow Kris I'm sorry that you experienced that. It's painful to think about.

Thanks. It was a long time ago (almost twelve years). Yeah, as you can imagine, it wasn't a great time. Good news is, our marriage didn't last much longer after that. And even better news, I'm married to the absolute greatest guy in the entire world now. :)

[Sydneystache]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Looks like a veritable betting table to me! Just need odds.

My (outsider) bets are President Paul Ryan for traditional Republicans, President Betsy de Vos for Trump supporters.

[I'm a red panda]

I think Paul Ryan doesn't want to be president. If he did, I think he could have been already.  Anything that happened during the campaign they could likely say Pence was a party too and have him out too.

The problem with impeaching Trump, is no matter what the offense is, Congress still has to do it.  And they won't.

Heck, I don't think it would matter if Trump lights the white house on fire, parades around DC in his underwear while spouting off the nuclear codes (which would be a clear reason for removable by the 25th amendment)- the Republican party won't do anything. They are getting what they want with legislation.

Trump said during his campaign he could shoot someone and no one would care. It's true. I do not understand why the party is okay with Trump at the head of our government.


Another thing that is sad- even if Trump is removed, the damage is done. Look who he has put into our government; they don't generally all get removed. He has damaged our reputation with other countries. He has endangered our security.  You can't reverse that.

[Lis]

If Trump doesn't get impeached/removed from office before the next presidential election and runs again... do you think he will get a primary challenge? I think that would be smart for the republicans.

If he doesn't get impeached/resign before 2020, I honestly don't see him running again. Of course, it'll Hillary's/the democrats/everyone else's fault. Something along the lines of no one let him be an effective president (thought probably not quite that eloquent). Choosing not to run again would still let him "win" (he didn't quit!). Only if it he makes it to 2020. I'm thinking he'll crack under pressure first.

[DavidAnnArbor]

Eventually it has to make the Republican congresspeople look bad if they refuse to deal with Trump's increasingly reckless behavior. As events get more and more worse I would imagine that independent voters might choose to vote for the Democrat candidate.

[hoping2retire35]

There is also the possibility he is allowing this to play out just to see who will squel. I mean the things that are coming out aren't "good" but nothing worthy of removaval from office.  He may want to see if there any Edward snow dens in his mists. (I considered him a good guy btw)

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

I hope the (few? hidden?) Trump supporters interpret the last week as a turning point in their assessment of Trump. If not, well, there is no helping some people who are sufficiently mentally ill. And I say all of this as someone who is critical of the casual, non-rigorous denouncement of Trump often found in the MSM. The "intellectual" arguments and the protest arguments for Trump have all collapsed. The product does what it says on the tin: it's an idiot.

[DavidAnnArbor]

David Brook's NY Times column is kind of funny/sad about the human resources disaster that is the Trump administration.

The Trump White House hasn't filled hundreds of senior and mid-level staff positions yet, but no one of any quality and experience will now want to be part of a "self-cannibalizing pirrhana squad whose main activity is lawyering up."

[Inaya]

I hope the (few? hidden?) Trump supporters interpret the last week as a turning point in their assessment of Trump. If not, well, there is no helping some people who are sufficiently mentally ill. And I say all of this as someone who is critical of the casual, non-rigorous denouncement of Trump often found in the MSM. The "intellectual" arguments and the protest arguments for Trump have all collapsed. The product does what it says on the tin: it's an idiot.

Anecdotal, but I overheard somebody on the subway say that their die-hard Trump-supporter uncle no longer supports Trump. Because Trump called Comey an idiot? But hey, I'll take it, whatever the reason.

[Just Joe]

Anyone hear the rumor that KellyAnne Conway is trying to distance herself from Trump? I suspect if his "ship goes down" alot of people will start trying to do that.

[deadlymonkey]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

[Lis]

Anyone hear the rumor that KellyAnne Conway is trying to distance herself from Trump? I suspect if his "ship goes down" alot of people will start trying to do that.

It's a smart move for any and all Republicans, really (though KAC might always be remembered for her work with Trump). Notice how Pence has been absent from almost all news lately? He made the news recently when students at Notre Dame protested his speech at their commencement, but he's been keeping a low profile. Fox News is having trouble booking guests that support Trump (lawmakers and politicians, various talking heads), because they can tell the ship is currently sinking.

[Gin1984]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

[former player]

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

I wonder at what point the Republicans in Congress are going to realise that they need to get an impeachment done and dusted within the next 18 months in order to avoid this possibility.

[MasterStache]

Anyone hear the rumor that KellyAnne Conway is trying to distance herself from Trump? I suspect if his "ship goes down" alot of people will start trying to do that.

Heck even Coulter is bailing. And she wrote a book about him and professed her blind loyalty to Trump. 

[Inaya]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

[I'm a red panda]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

[wenchsenior]

I am 95% certain that impeachment is not going to happen until after the 2018 midterms, if at all.  Even then it's only possible if Dems retake the House (fairly likely) AND hold most of their seats in the Senate (somewhat unlikely, though odds are improving daily) or regain the Senate (unlikely).

Independent voters might bail on Trump, but the base is unlikely to. So then it's a question of how many GOP members in a post-midterm split Congress sit in swing districts that are swinging against Trump.  I'm skeptical that it will be enough.

There is a tiny outside chance that the GOP Congress bails on Trump in favor of Pence.  But I doubt they would risk the backlash from their base to do that, no matter how appealing the potential legislative outcome.

[former player]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

The most likely charge against Pence at the moment seems to be hiring Flynn in the face of all advice and to great detriment to national security, possibly along with the fact that in office he is being proven to be a serial liar.  A Flynn conviction would considerably help a charge.

[Lis]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

The most likely charge against Pence at the moment seems to be hiring Flynn in the face of all advice and to great detriment to national security, possibly along with the fact that in office he is being proven to be a serial liar.  A Flynn conviction would considerably help a charge.

Is any of that illegal though? Short of calling for him to resign if/when Trump is removed/leaves office, I don't see how Pence can be removed.

[Gin1984]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

The most likely charge against Pence at the moment seems to be hiring Flynn in the face of all advice and to great detriment to national security, possibly along with the fact that in office he is being proven to be a serial liar.  A Flynn conviction would considerably help a charge.

Is any of that illegal though? Short of calling for him to resign if/when Trump is removed/leaves office, I don't see how Pence can be removed.

It really depends on how much Pence knew about collaboration with the Russians.  By hiding the information, did he aid and abet our enemy?  We don't have enough information yet to say that. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[former player]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

The most likely charge against Pence at the moment seems to be hiring Flynn in the face of all advice and to great detriment to national security, possibly along with the fact that in office he is being proven to be a serial liar.  A Flynn conviction would considerably help a charge.

Is any of that illegal though? Short of calling for him to resign if/when Trump is removed/leaves office, I don't see how Pence can be removed.

Conspiracy to disclose classified information to an unauthorised person?  Conspiracy to commit an offence under the Logan Act or accessory after the fact to that offence?  Lying to Congress?  The Trump transition and administration are looking like such a legal mess that there will be a smorgasbord of offences to pick from in relation to any of its top members.

[sequoia]

So at one point or another, political opponents, media etc are losers. And now apparently terrorists are also called the same. Surely these people are not in the same category.

I am just speechless and smh. And sad that the person who represent our country is this guy. I can not believe the speechwriters and advisors can not come up with a different term.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/23/trump-called-terrorists-losers-the-same-insult-he-has-thrown-at-cnn-ted-cruz-and-many-others/?utm_term=.8a690288c0f4

[scottish]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

Is this correct?    I find the American political system a little confusing, but Wikipedia says that the speaker of the house is elected by congress...

<snip>
The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death or resignation of an incumbent Speaker. The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[5]
</snip>

[dividendman]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

Is this correct?    I find the American political system a little confusing, but Wikipedia says that the speaker of the house is elected by congress...

<snip>
The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death or resignation of an incumbent Speaker. The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[5]
</snip>

It's correct.

While the Speaker of the House is selected by the House of Representatives, he or she is third in line to the Presidency in the event that both the Presidency and Vice Presidency are vacant (via whatever mechanism, death, resignation, impeachment and removal).

Then (if the Speaker's position is also vacant) it's the Senate pro tem who is usually the most senior member of the majority party in the Senate, but could be anyone the Senate selects.

Then it's various Cabinet officials starting with the secretary of state I believe.

A simple way to remember is:
1) President
2) President of the Senate (i.e. the Vice President)
3) Speaker of the House

Basically the leader of the upper chamber then the lower chamber of the Congress takes the presidency in that order.

[aspiringnomad]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

Is this correct?    I find the American political system a little confusing, but Wikipedia says that the speaker of the house is elected by congress...

<snip>
The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death or resignation of an incumbent Speaker. The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[5]
</snip>

It's correct.

While the Speaker of the House is selected by the House of Representatives, he or she is third in line to the Presidency in the event that both the Presidency and Vice Presidency are vacant (via whatever mechanism, death, resignation, impeachment and removal).

Then (if the Speaker's position is also vacant) it's the Senate pro tem who is usually the most senior member of the majority party in the Senate, but could be anyone the Senate selects.

Then it's various Cabinet officials starting with the secretary of state I believe.

A simple way to remember is:
1) President
2) President of the Senate (i.e. the Vice President)
3) Speaker of the House

Basically the leader of the upper chamber then the lower chamber of the Congress takes the presidency in that order.

Almost, but not quite right - the "upper chamber" is actually the Senate. So counterintuitively, it goes lower chamber first, then the upper chamber.

And to clarify for scottish, if the Dems retake the House in 2018 (all 435 are up for re-election every two years, and despite my usual cynicism I find this scenario more and more likely), then the Speaker will be a Democrat starting in 2019. I think the chances of Pence being ousted are tiny to infinitesimally small, but the likelihood of a mid-2019 impeachment of Tinyhands Orangeinfant is a different story. Senate conviction and removal from office is still pretty unlikely, but man, it might be close depending on how damning the Putin's Puppet evidence is.

[Lis]

A friend of mine mentioned that we shouldn't be going after Trump yet. We should get rid of Pence first, because if Pence becomes President, he'll be pretty much bulletproof. Therefore, the only way to get Pence out is to do it while he's still VP. Is there merit to this thinking? Would it even be possible?

Anything that could take Pence out of office would still exist once Trump is gone.  I don't think order matters. All that matters is the people in charge of the impeachment care to do it, which they don't.  There was no "check" in place for when the legislative branch is either complicit or completely uncaring about the insanity going on in the executive branch.

The most likely charge against Pence at the moment seems to be hiring Flynn in the face of all advice and to great detriment to national security, possibly along with the fact that in office he is being proven to be a serial liar.  A Flynn conviction would considerably help a charge.

Is any of that illegal though? Short of calling for him to resign if/when Trump is removed/leaves office, I don't see how Pence can be removed.

Conspiracy to disclose classified information to an unauthorised person?  Conspiracy to commit an offence under the Logan Act or accessory after the fact to that offence?  Lying to Congress?  The Trump transition and administration are looking like such a legal mess that there will be a smorgasbord of offences to pick from in relation to any of its top members.

I'm not a lawyer or political expert by any means, so I could be wrong here. But from a layman's perspective, it seems pretty easy to pin it all on Trump and let Pence slide. More and more Republicans are coming out with their disapproval of Trump, but they're still going to want to keep control, right? Pence is a good ol' Republican boy. I don't think an impeachment process is likely for Pence (and even if it is, I doubt he'll end up being removed from office), because he's the Republicans' best bet at keeping the White House. Are Pence's hands clean? Highly, highly doubtful. Honestly, I'm terrified of the policies he might have the power to create and pass. On the other hand, as someone mentioned before, he's much less likely to get us nuked.

[I'm a red panda]

I can't believe how many people honestly believe that Mike Pence would be an improvement over Trump.  He'd be even worse because he knows what he's doing.

Policy wise, I might agree with this. But I think every day we waste our time fighting over his nonsense further damages the faith in our political system and media. On the other hand, that damage may already be done.

Also, If he is impeached Pence may be gone as well. Not sure how far down the line we would need to go to get a real leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Step 1:  Flip congress/senate in 2018.
Step 2:  Ride out the Pence presidency until 2020
Step3:   Elect a Moderate president....

If we flip the house and the corruption is shown to be with both Pence and Trump, we could have a dem president in 2018.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Impossible.  There is no mechanism in the constitution to call a new election for a president.  They would just go down the order of succession until they find someone who isn't dirty.  My guess would be Mattis.

You do realize that the speaker of the house could be a democrat after the 2018 election right?  This has nothing to do with calling a new election, but having to do with the order of succession.

Is this correct?    I find the American political system a little confusing, but Wikipedia says that the speaker of the house is elected by congress...

<snip>
The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death or resignation of an incumbent Speaker. The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[5]
</snip>

It's correct.

While the Speaker of the House is selected by the House of Representatives, he or she is third in line to the Presidency in the event that both the Presidency and Vice Presidency are vacant (via whatever mechanism, death, resignation, impeachment and removal).

Then (if the Speaker's position is also vacant) it's the Senate pro tem who is usually the most senior member of the majority party in the Senate, but could be anyone the Senate selects.

Then it's various Cabinet officials starting with the secretary of state I believe.

A simple way to remember is:
1) President
2) President of the Senate (i.e. the Vice President)
3) Speaker of the House

Basically the leader of the upper chamber then the lower chamber of the Congress takes the presidency in that order.

Almost, but not quite right - the "upper chamber" is actually the Senate. So counterintuitively, it goes lower chamber first, then the upper chamber. 

Upper chamber first in that the VP is technically the leader of the Senate.

[MasterStache]

Wanted to share. This is brilliantly written:

http://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-loneliness-of-donald-trump/

[Sydneystache]

#covfefe

[Kris]

Trump's pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Yup. Us, Nicaragua, and Somalia. Nice.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Trump's pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Yup. Us, Nicaragua, and Somalia. Nice.

I think you mean Syria, not Somalia. Not that it matters...

[Barbaebigode]

Trump's pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Yup. Us, Nicaragua, and Somalia. Nice.

I for one welcome our new chinese overlords.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/31/china-eu-climate-lead-paris-agreement

[Kris]

Trump's pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Yup. Us, Nicaragua, and Somalia. Nice.

I think you mean Syria, not Somalia. Not that it matters...

LOL yeah, whoops. Don't know what brought on that brain fart.

[Davnasty]

Has anybody seen that episode of The Office, Diversity Day?

Everyone has to sign off that they learned something about respecting diversity but Michael won't sign. Then the counselor tells him that he really only needed Michael's signature because he was the one that said the n word.

That's how I feel about the Paris agreement. Really this is about the US (and a few others) being super wasteful and polluting but everyone else is signing along with the developed countries so they don't feel embarrassed.

Then Trump signs "Daffy Duck" and makes fart noises.

[sequoia]

I keep thinking "oh it can not be worse than this..." and a few days later "I was wrong. It can be worse".

3.5 year of more of this bs makes me shiver...

[Lagom]

And now we have two clear cut examples of right wing extremist violence/terrorism happening in Portland and Washington state occurring  in the same week. Portentous? Let's hope not...

Meanwhile POTUS took a pretty long time to say anything at all about the former and AFAIK has not made any statement on the latter. But damn those lying reporters really are bringing ruin to this country.