Political Arguments: Has anyone ever changed your mind on an issue?

[Jack]

as a side note, the federal government is only permitted to legislate in certain areas, such as interstate commerce, and the bill of rights retains the right to legislate in all others to the states - there is some question outstanding as to whether this could be a federal law

Between the Commerce Clause and the Elastic clause, does the Court even care about the 10th Amendment anymore? Has there ever in recent memory (say, the last 50 years) been a federal law that the states have managed to get struck down on 10th Amendment grounds?

[frugalnacho]

No, it's not possible

Are you sure? Are you sure you're not just a chicken?

[shelivesthedream]

I haven't done a 180 in a single conversation, but I (nice, white, middle class liberal) made a lot of conservative friends at university and they made me rethink a lot of things. Before that, I had never really had my beliefs on things like gay marriage or abortion challenged - I didn't actually believe that any right-minded person could possibly object if they actually thought about it. Now I know better. I'm still a pretty bleeding heart liberal but I have reconsidered several things over the years, like tax incentives for businesses and fox hunting.

Re: armed police
The first time I saw a policeman with a gun was when I was 19 and on holiday, I think in Italy. We walked into a square and there were two of them casually there with guns strapped to their belts in plain view and I FREAKED. I thought the only reason there could be armed police in the area is if they were actually hunting down some dangerous criminal and we were about to be caught in the middle of a gunfight. It was explained to me that all Italian police carry guns as a matter of course, but I still remember my first reaction of total fear - what if they shot me by accident? I cannot imagine living somewhere where your average bobby on the beat has a lethal weapon. It would be horrific. As someone has said above, police shootings of civilians or civilians killings of police officers are rare in the UK and reported very seriously. There is a plaque near my parents' house to a policeman who was killed in the eighties and people still talk about it in the local area.

[deirdre08]

I haven't done a 180 in a single conversation, but I (nice, white, middle class liberal) made a lot of conservative friends at university and they made me rethink a lot of things. Before that, I had never really had my beliefs on things like gay marriage or abortion challenged - I didn't actually believe that any right-minded person could possibly object if they actually thought about it. Now I know better. I'm still a pretty bleeding heart liberal but I have reconsidered several things over the years, like tax incentives for businesses and fox hunting.

Re: armed police
The first time I saw a policeman with a gun was when I was 19 and on holiday, I think in Italy. We walked into a square and there were two of them casually there with guns strapped to their belts in plain view and I FREAKED. I thought the only reason there could be armed police in the area is if they were actually hunting down some dangerous criminal and we were about to be caught in the middle of a gunfight. It was explained to me that all Italian police carry guns as a matter of course, but I still remember my first reaction of total fear - what if they shot me by accident? I cannot imagine living somewhere where your average bobby on the beat has a lethal weapon. It would be horrific. As someone has said above, police shootings of civilians or civilians killings of police officers are rare in the UK and reported very seriously. There is a plaque near my parents' house to a policeman who was killed in the eighties and people still talk about it in the local area.

I'm really glad your first interaction with armed police wasn't in new york, at the large train station junction I commute through they have squads of police with assault rifles regularly patrolling the station. 

[frugalnacho]

I haven't done a 180 in a single conversation, but I (nice, white, middle class liberal) made a lot of conservative friends at university and they made me rethink a lot of things. Before that, I had never really had my beliefs on things like gay marriage or abortion challenged - I didn't actually believe that any right-minded person could possibly object if they actually thought about it. Now I know better. I'm still a pretty bleeding heart liberal but I have reconsidered several things over the years, like tax incentives for businesses and fox hunting.

Re: armed police
The first time I saw a policeman with a gun was when I was 19 and on holiday, I think in Italy. We walked into a square and there were two of them casually there with guns strapped to their belts in plain view and I FREAKED. I thought the only reason there could be armed police in the area is if they were actually hunting down some dangerous criminal and we were about to be caught in the middle of a gunfight. It was explained to me that all Italian police carry guns as a matter of course, but I still remember my first reaction of total fear - what if they shot me by accident? I cannot imagine living somewhere where your average bobby on the beat has a lethal weapon. It would be horrific. As someone has said above, police shootings of civilians or civilians killings of police officers are rare in the UK and reported very seriously. There is a plaque near my parents' house to a policeman who was killed in the eighties and people still talk about it in the local area.

I'm curious as to what arguments your conservative friends put forth that made you question your beliefs on gay marriage and abortion.

Never mind your average bobby, what about just your average citizen? GUNS! 'MERICA!

[CommonCents]

as a side note, the federal government is only permitted to legislate in certain areas, such as interstate commerce, and the bill of rights retains the right to legislate in all others to the states - there is some question outstanding as to whether this could be a federal law

Between the Commerce Clause and the Elastic clause, does the Court even care about the 10th Amendment anymore? Has there ever in recent memory (say, the last 50 years) been a federal law that the states have managed to get struck down on 10th Amendment grounds?

Good point.  I personally think the commerce clause has been considerably stretched.  (That said, I do appreciate that we have global economy now - the commerce we conduct these days is quite different from the 17th century, with much business happening in local communities and not across state lines).  I see this as happening in part because of shifts in major identification from your state to the country.  (Ask most people today and they will say the Civil War was primarily about freeing slaves rather than states' rights.)

To answer your question though, US v. Lopez (1992) on guns in schools was found not to affect interstate commerce, stopping the ever increasing reach of the commerce clause and leading to a federal gun law.  There was a case on violence against women after it where the law was also struck down.  But yeah, very few... 

In general, the commerce clause generally isn't considered a "sexy" topic like the first amendment, so it rarely garners much attention outside of legal circles.  Hence the interest in the recent ACA case was unusual.  (I'm mindful of picture a friend posted on facebook during this time, with the caption "Suddenly everyone on the internet is a constitutional law scholar"...)

[dragoncar]

No, it's not possible

Are you sure? Are you sure you're not just a chicken?

ok, maybe it's possible

[Blonde Lawyer]

I'm a liberal who was formerly very pro-gun control but have moved pretty firmly into the gun rights club.  The people normally labeled crazies that comment on every new article in my area actually had something to do with my change of heart.  Also a few personal experiences and marrying someone in law enforcement.

I've also come to realize that there are some bad apples in law enforcement.  Just because my spouse is as ethical as they come doesn't mean that his brother's and sisters act the same.

Lastly, while I still firmly believe in a woman's right to a safe, legal and accessible abortion, law school has taught me that Roe v. Wade was a pretty horrible legal decision when it comes to interpreting precedent and the constitution. 

I would suggest that anyone analyzing major issues seek out primary sources.  Read actual court decisions not just the press on it.

Can you explain that in more detail?

I haven't been ignoring your question.  It was something I didn't think I could answer quickly so I kept putting it off until I would have more time.  Common Cents ended up answering most of what I was going to write.

There were some other distinctions too such as what is an isn't a compelling government interest that I found a bit tenuous.  They really glossed over issues like a father's right to the potential life. 

I think if the decision had instead been grounded on the equal protection clause and that women have a right to not be forced to be pregnant and bear the consequences of that (when men can't be forced to be pregnant) it would have been a stronger legal opinion. 

The right to privacy part was a little tenuous.  Some disagree the right to privacy should even be read into our constitution/bill of rights.  On the one hand they were saying you have a right to privacy to decisions you make with your medical provider but on the other hand they were saying an abortion does not need to be medically necessary to be legal.   

It was a good result but a really funky way of getting there.

[rubybeth]

Definitely. I grew up in a very conservative (or so I thought) home, but over time, I came to be much more socially liberal on many issues. I later learned my own father also changed his political positions because of some conversations we had, specifically when I had a political ideology quiz in 9th grade and he took it for himself and learned he is much more liberal than he ever realized (he also worked for the state government, so changing his position better aligned with keeping him in a job). I also have a hunch my mom may have been voting liberal her whole life, but just not telling anyone. :)

My husband and I also discuss politics all of the time, and we have changed our positions on some things over the years (or we didn't have much of a position to begin with). I deeply respect my husband and we debate things pretty regularly.

But I can say that I have never been convinced by a Facebook post or one random internet comment. I would have to know and trust the person, and their argument would need to be backed up with facts (real facts, not Faux News 'facts') that I could find for myself from reputable sources.

[nereo]

H changed his mind on gay marriage.  He used to think "marriage" was something special...

... now he that he's married he realizes it's not so special afterall.

(sorry MayDay; couldn't resist)